The Quest for Intimacy | Nathan Grooms

The Quest for Intimacy Today on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. I remember riding around one night with one of my buddies That was in that season that my heart wasn't as committed as it should have been to the Lord. But even then, I remember clearly saying, when I get married, I want to learn how to get it right. And that's never left me.

And I'm still wanting to learn today. I want to learn until. the Lord calls me home. I do. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr.

Gary Chapman, author of The New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Today, pastor and counselor Nathan Grooms wants to help you and your spouse cultivate deeper spiritual, emotional, and physical intimacy. Nathan is going to challenge every couple to move beyond cruise control and commit to rediscovering shared dreams and rekindle true friendship. Doesn't that sound good? But you might be asking, can that happen in my relationship?

Don't miss the practical help straight ahead. And if you go to buildingrelationships.us, you'll see our featured resource, the book The Quest for Intimacy. Again, you can find a link to that at buildingrelationships.us. Gary, you have counseled so many couples through the years, and I know this area of intimacy and growing together has been a huge part of your own ministry.

Well, it has, Chris. And I really, really, you know, everybody gets married wanting to have an intimate relationship. I mean, when you're in love, you feel like you've got it, you know, you know. But we know that doesn't last forever.

So I am really excited about our program today and the book, The Quest for Intimacy. I've known Nathan for a long time and really excited to talk with him today on the program and share with our listeners this book because it's going to help couples wherever they are in their journey.

Well, let's meet our guest. He's the founder of Nathan Groom's Ministries, whose mission is to share biblical truths and practical wisdom to help guide you toward loving, fulfilling relationships. As a pastor, teacher, and counselor, he's seen couples' relationships transformed. His first wife, Susie, passed away in 2016. They were married more than 40 years.

He and his wife, Vicki, were married in 2017, and they live in Lincoln, North Carolina. His book is our featured resource, The Quest for Intimacy. You can find it at buildingrelationships.us.

Well, Nathan, welcome to Building Relationships. Thank you so much, Gary. It's a privilege to be here. We're looking forward to it. For those who aren't familiar with you, tell us more about Nathan Grooms.

I'd like to start first with how you met your wife and how you knew that she was the one.

Well,. Our story goes back to when we were literally 12 and 13 years of age. I had played football for my school. She was a cheerleader for her school. And we all ended up uptown at the shake shop to get something to eat after the game.

And that girl's smile caught my attention across that room. And I think I was done that time. I didn't see her again for a couple of years and then she was doing nothing but becoming more beautiful and just pewter by the moment. Personality was so so sweet. But um Yeah, I was raised here in the Piedmont area of North Carolina.

Wonderful family. going to church had that wonderful foundation of the faith. But I came to a place that I didn't appreciate it as much when I was going through some teenage years. And to be quite honest, a drag strip down towards Charlotte seemed far more enticing to me on Sundays than church did. And unfortunately, that became a part of my life and my story.

And I'm there on Sundays for some time. But, Susie, as we grew older, And though we got married young, She was that influence that said You know you need to recommit your heart to the Lord. and get back in church with me. And Gary, I'll never forget telling her, I'm not going to play church. If I get back in, I'm going to get in headfirst.

And you know, by God's grace, around age 19, I did that and have never looked back. And Susie and I got married when we were eighteen and nineteen years old.

So I assume there were a few people that didn't think that one would make it.

Well, I'm just glad that Susie pointed you in the right direction. Absolutely. And you know, there are so many things, of course, we learn through our years that we are married. But the power and the influence of someone's wife or husband. is something that I certainly learned early on.

because she did have an impact on me. to make a commitment, but Gary, you know, I've looked back and I can remember. Because all of my buddies, it was the muscle car era, and we all had them, and that's kind of what we did for a season. I remember riding around one night With one of my buddies, and that was in that season that my heart wasn't as committed as it should have been to the Lord. But even then, I remember clearly saying, when I get married, I want to learn how to get it right.

And that's never left me. And I'm still wanting to learn today. I want to learn until. The Lord calls me home. I do.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, you've been in ministry now for more than 50 years, and I'd like to ask this question. How are marriages doing today compared with fifty years ago? Are you encouraged?

Are you discouraged? What an excellent question.

So growing up here in the Bible belt. And this small town. I literally remember growing up when most all of our local stores closed at noon on Wednesdays. Because most people had it in their mind they were going to church on Wednesday nights.

So I grew up in an era of life and a Location to where marriage was revered, the Lord was. It seems to me that more people had a deep determination. and oftentimes conviction. To make the marriage work.

Now, I'm a realist enough to know that there were many who stayed together. who had fallen out of love unfortunately. But for various reasons would stay together. I am seeing personally. I think one thing that concerns me, more older couples who are separating and divorcing in this season, Saying, I'm tired.

I hung in here for a number of years. Children are gone. and I'm going to be happy the rest of my life. That being said, I've seen people of couples of all ages, and I'm very encouraged by many young people. young couples that we talk to That are pouring into churches that are saying, we want to learn how to get it right.

But classes that we teach have couples of all ages saying, We want reality. We want something that's real and lasting. And we all know that Scripture and the love of Christ. The rock. He's the foundation for lasting marriages.

Yeah, no question about that. And it is encouraging, I think, when people reach out wanting to learn. And that's super, super encouraging because there's answers. There's answers. Absolutely.

Yeah, let's define our terms now.

Okay. When I say the word intimacy.

Some will be thinking only of sex in marriage. Yes. Can you define how you define intimacy? I will, and that's a very good question because I've had a number of people tell me they assumed that's all that the book is about. Um in my mind and in my heart.

I think about Oneness. I think about a relationship that enjoys Openness. Honesty. I think about a relationship that is. determined to allow trust and vulnerability.

to be part of the foundation of that relationship. that builds that oneness, that builds an intimacy for the total person. Yeah.

Well, that's certainly my concept of intimacy. I agree with that for sure. Wha why do you think some marriages thrive and others just struggle and struggle? You know, in a natural sense, I know that there are some couples who get married and they have more similar interests and desires. Maybe things align more for them.

even from their um from their family of origins. Whereas we both have been confronted countless times with couples who had very different family of origins. Tell me they didn't know what they were getting into. But I think there are times that couples have had Uh good examples. And then sometimes maybe poor examples.

that they have watched as they are growing up. But Gary to me I've just come to believe more and more over the past years of my life. that everything boils down to issues of the heart. And I believe that there are those who have, you know, they have entered marriage. much probably like I did as young as I was, with more of a selfish motivation than what they realized.

They're thinking the relationship is more about them than it is about their husband or about their wife. enter that relationship. Believing they can help them make some changes to make them a better person. before they began to understand the value of things starting in their own heart. In the book, or the title of the book is The Quest for Intimacy.

What led you to choose that title for this book? I believe I chose that because I see clearly. that the fulfilling, loving marriage that we're all desiring doesn't just happen. You have to make an effort. You you have to have a goal in mind of a successful marriage and relationship.

And with us being right here in the foothills, sometimes I picture a hiker. Maybe, you know, they know they want to reach the peak of that beautiful mountain and to enjoy the scenery that's there. But there's an effort that has to be placed and put out. to obtain that goal. And I see that in marriage.

It's not just going to fall in our lap, but it's worth the journey. It's worth the effort. And I think that's why the word quest came into my mind because I know for me personally. I have made an effort, an ongoing effort, and I've refused to stop until we reach that place that for Susie and I. in that season and now for for Vic and I, To enjoy a fulfillment and a peace that passes all understanding.

You know, Gabe, when I encourage couples To really strive to obtain a very loving, wonderful relationship. I know in Christ, it's available. Yeah.

And it it should be. that we want to get home at the end of a workday to see that girl or a husband. And I know that type of love is available if we'll make the effort. and follow the plan of the Lord. Yeah.

Well, you know, in the book, you're very honest and open about your own struggles you and Susie had in the early days of your marriage. Yes, sir. You talk about one particular argument that you had in which it really became a life-changer for you. Can you tell us that story and why it's so important? You know, I'm ashamed of it, but at the same time I know we're clay.

And I know the master potter. Has a plan for us to shape us into vessels of honor for him. And he certainly put the clay on the Potter's Wheel that night. But Susie and I were you, we were young, but you know, we had been married for, I assume, a couple of years, a few years. But we got into a disagreement one night.

And I, of course, like so often, you can't even remember what it was about. ma maybe maybe I wanted more attention and maybe she wanted to go somewhere. I I don't know. But anyway, it we we both just kind of drew a line in the sand. I'll I'll never forget being in our den that evening and You know, we just verbally started this exchange that begin to grow and It's like I had m I made my mind up.

um I'm gonna get the last word in. And that particular evening I think Susie was kind of thinking the same thing because she was holding her own there for a while, but unfortunately um we got louder. I mean, it was nothing physical, but we we got we got louder and we got ruder. And Finally, my voice was out of pitch. that it broke her heart.

And and Garriott literally crushed her spirit. And I looked into Susie's eyes. And she started crying Just uncontrollably. Matter of fact, I'm about to get emotional right now myself thinking about it, but uh. She just started weeping.

And I'll have to be honest because in that moment. And you're trying to hold your own. I I looked at her and I remember at least one time thinking.

Well, you should feel that way. What you've said to me and the disrespect and as hurt as I feel right now, but very, very quickly. God in His great grace. Gary, he touched my heart. And he helped me to see Susie and to see her heart.

But beyond that He reminded me That she Was his doubter? and created in his image. And I thought Had any other man spoken to my wife like that? I would have had a real issue with it and had to say something. But it wasn't anybody else.

It was me. And I had done it. Yeah.

And it crushed my heart. And in that very moment I asked The Lord would forgive me. And I said, it will never happen again. and I ask her to forgive me. But of course in that moment You you know, when someone is deeply wounded.

It may even be hard to accept an a sincere apology. Yeah.

So We had to have some time to. catch our breath and but I did apologize and It was a few hours before we went to bed, and there was very little speaking in in in the house, and I tried to apologize again. But um Without taking too much time, I will say this. The Holy Spirit so convicted me Through a passage like Ephesians 4, 26, that we can be angry. But we're not sinning.

But don't let the sun go down. on your anger. or shame, uh, to be caused and and and l allow that shame to to continue. And I was ashamed So we we finally went to bed, but that was one of those nights.

Now The lighter side, it wasn't funny then. That's one of those nights as a couple. We went to bed and we looked in opposite directions, pulling that sheet really tight, like don't touch me, you know. And uh, but I'd already asked her a time or two to forgive me.

Well, I The Lord kept dealing with me. Gary says, now it's one, two o'clock in the morning. I'm wide awake. And so she was going to get up to go to work about six thirty, but I couldn't help it.

So I tap her on the shoulder. And I say, Susie, I just really need you to forgive me and just tell me you forgive me and you love me.

Well, she wasn't in any mood at 2:30 in the morning with a wounded heart to tell me that, and it didn't happen.

So I was persistent. I'm under conviction. I wake her up at four, same thing. I wake her up about six, and finally around six o'clock. She said, listen.

You know my heart's hurt. She reached over, gave me a kiss on the cheek. It was not affectionate. But anyway, it broke the ice. And then we were able to speak for a few minutes before she went to work, and continue when she got home.

In our process of the Lord allowing Him to heal our hearts. But Gary, we were married for decades after that. I never spoke to her again like that. We never had an issue like that again. And that's how the Lord has worked in my marriage and in my life.

He would take one verse at a time, and confront me with it. Ephesians 5.25. that we would love our wives like Christ loves the church? I said, you've got to be kidding. You know, he said, I'm not kidding.

And I spent about 20 years writing notes of how Christ loves me. And every time he would say, love Susie that way, now, love Vic that way now. That's how he's conformed my heart and mine. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I wish that many couples could have one night like that and it'd be transforming. Yes, sir. Many times, as you know, they they'd have a whole series or years of that kind of experience without either of them turning uh away. But now, in the book, you talk about intimacy, of course. But you talk about uh spiritual intimacy.

emotional intimacy, and physical intimacy. Why do you think it's important to write about each of these areas of intimacy?

Well, through the years, beyond all that I've experienced and my growth and the things that we've learned. I've watched so many couples as though they were Almost totally focused on one area of life, but I see us created in the image of God. spirit, mind, and body. I think there's far more to us than Just what I desire, the dreams I have, or the vacations I want to take, where so many would just focus on: I want to make more money, I want to be happy, I want to fulfill dreams, just that. I think there is a calling on our life and a place that the Lord wants to bring us to to understand.

That there is a deep spiritual calling on us as. husbands and wives. and beyond just being happy, I have come to believe that my number one calling on my life under loving the Lord with all of my heart, is that I love my wife in a way that encourages her in her faith, to know and to walk in the calling of God on her life. And then beyond that, my children and others. But I believe that ministry for every married man and woman starts there.

Also, I believe that emotionally We all need God's healing grace in our emotions. I believe there is that place that God is calling us. Especially, I pray that men hear this to help provide an atmosphere within our homes. a safe haven. a place where our wives and event and then our children can grow And be themselves and not feel as though they have to act like someone else.

someone else's wife, someone else's husband. They're loved unconditionally. I think that that whole area of of oneness and intimacy has to be addressed. And then physically, of course, we need to understand God's. holy calling within that Though so many influences in this world have tried to pervert the whole thought.

So I just believe that. for a total marriage to enjoy the total blessings of God. It will draw us into spiritual, emotional, and physical. Depth. and insight so that we can love more like Christ loves.

Yeah.

But with more than fifty years of marriage and decades of counseling, Where do you begin the conversation about building spiritual intimacy or a spiritual foundation for a marriage? Where would you encourage a couple to start?

Well, I I've learned to encourage the individual. if it be the husband, if it be the wife. to look into their own heart. First. Because I believe it begins in me.

For years, especially those early years, I wanted to believe that so much of it. Uh began in Susie. And Vic and I talk about it, and sometimes we laugh about it.

Now we say, Thank God we get to benefit from what we learned through those first 40 years. And I'm thinking, I've actually got a picture of Susie and Vic right here, both in front of me right now, different pictures. But Susie has received a wonderful reward when she entered heaven's gates, allowing us both to. Gary, we learn the love languages. We learn the truth of God's word together.

it became life-changing. But what I learned early on in all the prayers that I prayed. And I remember this. I remember another marked moment in my marriage. that ours Taking time.

away from our schedule. alone with God. praying as sincerely as I knew how. that God would make us one, Susie and I, when we were young. And there was only a couple of things, as many couples would say: well, if he would just do that, or she would just change here.

And I'm calling out those couple of things. Before the Lord, and I'll never forget. Like, God, if you would just touch her heart and help her to understand the importance of this and that, God, we would just be like we would be this couple. I mean, have mercy. A wonderful example and walking in joy.

And literally. If I've heard his voice ever in prayer, I heard it then. And he said. Nathan, do you really want to be one with your wife? I said, Yes, Lord, I do.

Well, are you willing to pray? That I will change you to be more like her? Mm. Mm. And that's and I was like That can't be the Lord.

No, no, I thought I was in a prayerful mood. I must have gotten out of it. But no, that was literally his voice to my heart. And he confronted me with that that very day. Love your wives like Christ loves the church.

Fm. And I started that very day praying that he would help me. to have a heart. that understood hers. and accept her the way that she was.

Instead of the way that I wanted her to be. And it changed everything.

So I tell couples: start with your own heart. Then pray and encourage your husband or your wife, In the faith in the Lord, You know, loving conversation, mutual respect, all these things help build a better environment.

So that they're receptive, so that they want to grow and share the faith with you. And then, as I find my call, my place in the kingdom. I encourage my wife to do the same. then I think the next step is how do we Allow the Holy Spirit to connect our hearts together. and serve him.

as one family unit. Hmm. Starts in me. Yeah.

You're listening to the Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman podcast. He's the author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Nathan Grooms wants to help you and your spouse find greater intimacy in your marriage. If you go to buildingrelationships.us, you'll see his book, The Quest for Intimacy.

Go to buildingrelationships.us or find us at fivelovelanguages.com. I know one of the things you encourage couples is to pray together, pray out loud together. Why why do you feel that is so such a powerful practice for intimacy? Gary, I really have over the years begun to see this as a powerful tool.

Now That being said, There are times when I'm talking to a couple about it or even teaching about this in a seminar, there are couples who just burst out laughing. And we'll say Nate, it's not going to happen. You know, one or two, what the husband or the wife one may be the spiritual giant, it would seem in the family, or more vocal or more outspoken. And I've even had, it really touched my heart, but it's real life. I had a couple not long ago say, Okay, we heard you.

In class, we tried it. But Nathan, we're just going to have to admit, when we did, we just burst out laughing at each other. We thought it was the funniest thing. And I said, that's okay. That's real life right there.

But press on and press in because there is there is something here the Lord wants to use. And it does amaze me, you know, because we go to ball games. We have so many children, grandchildren, and all these different sports. And I watched some of the quietest, most dignified men and women in town. Go nuts at these ball games, hollering and screaming in front of hundreds or thousands of people, and then tell me you can't pray out loud in front of your wife or husband.

So sometimes I think a couple needs that reset moment. But but here's why I think it's so very, very important. We know that prayer is conversation. It's our personal heartfelt conversation to the Lord. We all are inspired.

when our husband or our wife prays for us, And praying separate is still a wonderful thing, of course. When I pray out loud, There's something even if I'm in the room by myself. I don't know if I feel like I I know he hears my whisper, he hears my thoughts, we don't even have to say it, I know that. But it's reinforcing something. In my soul, when I hear myself pray out loud.

Now when I hear my wife pray, out loud. it draws me in. She has my attention. As prayer is such a personal conversation with the Lord. When my wife and I both engage in praying together, if it's over our marriage or our children.

A situation in the church or someone in town, whatever it is. We're sharing our hearts. We're sharing our most intimate thoughts before the Lord. over this matter. What couples don't realize is, so often, When you begin to do that, It's creating an atmosphere of intimacy and trust and vulnerability.

that most couples don't experience otherwise. When we're praying together out loud, we are burying our hearts and souls. before the Creator of the universe. And if somebody thinks they're gonna Yeah, honey, I prayed about that. Oh yeah, I really care about that.

Well, we may halfway hide a truth at times from our spouse. But when we're praying in the presence of Almighty God, We will not do that, and we will not do it very often if we do, and then it's heartfelt. And I just believe it builds an intimacy and an openness and a trust if we get to know each other's hearts like nothing else can. Nathan, in terms of spiritual intimacy, what beyond prayer, praying together, what other ways can couples grow in spiritual intimacy?

Well, I think that one of the most significant ways which is not time consuming. It's not difficult for anyone to do. I love the idea of couples reading devotionals together. Much like your book, Love is a Verb. There is a basic thought for the day.

There's a passage of scripture. the word never returns void. If I read a verse It affects my heart and soul for that for that day. if my wife reads the same Scripture, We're on the same page. And if we read a devotional, We're having that same thought process.

I think that adds some commonality. to our day and to our thoughts. And may even give us something to build conversation on later in the day. Mm. I love the uh idea of couples worshiping together?

Understanding the importance and the joy of not just attending church together. but worshiping together. displaying your your true heart before the Father. singing together. praying together, being involved in all that worship is to you.

How you exalt the Lord. And there are many, many ways that we can express worship, of course. And I love the idea of couples serving together.

Now I I acknowledge that a husband and wife may have individual gifts. One may be a teacher. one may be given to hospitality, for example. And I think that each individual needs to have that fulfilling role in their heart and in their community of faith. But I also believe that there is something very powerful.

about a husband and a wife serving together in some way, in some capacity, through their life's journey together. Find something that you can do. as ministry. I mean, it could it could be. In a soup kitchen.

It could be even in the hospitality of the church or whatever it may be. It may be visitation of.

someone in need or going through a difficult or challenging place. But if we look. even though we have our individual giftings, we can find a way, I believe, to serve the Father together. And that knits our hearts. It's just so rewarding.

and so fulfilling. when we do something together that blesses others. and glorifies the Lord. And I think if I could, I just want to insert something right here because we know that. All of our churches, no matter where we go, we want more of the people in the church to step up and be a part of the activity and give and share and work, et cetera.

And we also know that oftentimes A smaller segment of the church, a smaller number. has many, many things fall upon them. And Gary, I've just watched through the years I I just as a word Because we're talking about marriage and the importance. of growing our marriage and our faith in the Lord. I want every individual to work and serve the Lord in their capacity.

I want every couple to serve together. But Gary, I don't want... Couples to believe that there is so heavy a burden That it's not Christ's burden anymore. It's a heavy burden where someone in the church is making you feel like you have to do this and this and this and that. And individuals becoming so busy in the church, they don't have time to minister at home.

to their husbands and wives. Mm. I think it's very important. Yep, I think a lot of our listeners can identify with that.

Well, let's move from spiritual intimacy to emotional intimacy. Is there a first step toward developing emotional intimacy in a marriage? Yes, I I believe there is. To me, emotional intimacy Again, it's creating a atmosphere Vulnerability. And Unconditional love.

think it's so very important that we we began to understand that Christ doesn't Hi his love is just so deeper, it's so beyond. What we have, and I mentioned earlier about how I was determined to change Susie and You can't develop emotional intimacy. when you're always trying to change. and correct and rebuild. your husband and wife.

But learning to accept them for who they are and as they are. I think is very, very important. Also in this day of social media, I think it's very important. that husbands and wives guard their hearts and their minds and not allow themselves to compare their husband and their wife to countless other Husbands and wives in their circle or around the world who they believe have it all together, but my husband doesn't or my wife doesn't. because to build emotional intimacy I need my girl's best interest at heart.

loving her just the way she is. And I think that That hearts are healed and guards come down in that safe haven environment. And then, you know, our spouse is at liberty to really reveal who they are. what they want. without fear of rejection and ridicule.

I think this is where you're able to share your dreams and. And your plans, and just make unlimited memories at that point. I remember the very first time Vic and I got married about a year and a half or so. uh, after Susie had passed and the very first time I went to pick her up and we were going somewhere, just the two of us, and Only God knows after forty years of Deeply loving one person, how strange that was to take a ride with somebody else in the car. But and we actually rode up into the mountains of North Carolina to a Christian retreat and Nobody was up there, but the one or two people that were working, and we went up to a prayer tower on top of the mountain and I I know this um Sounds extreme, but we We were both still so grieving and broken and we we went into that prayer tower and started crying and praying.

And without exaggeration, I came out of that. Specially built stone. prayer tower an hour and a half later and and Vic she was in there weeping for three hours. God just healing her broken heart. That first ride that we took, I looked at her in the driveway.

Because I know and I I've probably been there in the past and I've got a lot of A lot of guy friends, okay, family get in the car. We're going six, eight, ten, twelve hours, and I'm not stopping until I get there.

Well, I don't travel that way. I'm not gonna do it. And I just looked at Vic in the driveway and I said, I want you to know from this day forward. It will always be about the journey. and not the destination.

Mm. Mm. I wanted her to understand. that our time together, our quality time together, Our making memories together. It started right there in the driveway before we pulled out on the highway.

Well, I think we've talked about spiritual intimacy and emotional intimacy. Let's move now to the whole area of physical intimacy, sexual intimacy. What do we mean when we talk about physical or sexual intimacy?

Well, I believe that touch and physical intimacy. is so extremely important. I thought, matter of fact, when I was even writing this portion of the book, I thought back as a young pastor. and being trained and being taught and I could remember times of going uh maybe to a hospital, And a baby being born early, and would be in an incubator, and mom and dad were not able to hold that child. But I can remember times that we would grub and go in and We would be encouraged.

even with our finger. to reach in and to touch that child. to allow that child to feel the power of human touch. And also, through the years of walking into many. retirement homes and facilities where individuals would be there and maybe have very few people come to visit them.

The power of touch has always been prevalent, And I know as my parents were growing older and my wife's parents, I always encouraged my children and then my grandchildren, when you go see them, Make sure you hug them, you touch them. Before you leave, and they did that. Touch is very powerful. Sexual intimacy is a portion of the physical touch that God has called a husband and wife. to not only experience, but to enjoy.

So just like physical touch as a love language. Very important. That husbands and wives, in my opinion. learned to hold hands. Share that hug in the kitchen, do that little dance going down the hallway.

Have those moments when they are touching. I think cuddling is very, very important for a married couple. The temptation out there is off the charts. It's incredible. It's even hard to describe.

But God in his wisdom hath given us insight in Scripture of the importance of husbands and wives, coming together, enjoying their sexual intimacy on a regular basis, yes, for procreation, yes, we as children are born, thank God, God has representation in a new generation, and that's a beautiful thing. But if that is all that sexual intimacy was about, then after God's quota was met, then there would be no more desire. But I believe that God has placed within the heart of a man and a woman a desire for sexual intimacy. And one reason is to continue to draw us back together Even if we're beginning to drift from one another emotionally or spiritually. What many people fail to understand is that When we're together as a husband and wife, and sexual intimacy, it is that.

But it is also physical intimacy and it is also spiritual intimacy. And there's been times I would talk about in a seminar about Jesus being Lord of the bedroom. And some people would be looking around like, you mean he sees us? Like, yes, he does. And he's not ashamed.

This is part of his creation. But I believe it is a portion of married life that I I wish every husband and wife could understand the value of. not resent it. not regret it. but be able to embrace it.

And I have actually noticed more and more female Christian authors using the term When we are together I'm realizing I am ministering to my husband. meeting the need he has even if in that moment I don't have that need or desire myself. And it may even be the other way. It may be that the wife's desire is stronger than her husband's, and that's okay. But the truth is, God has called us to sexual intimacy.

And as a couple learns the value of sharing themselves with one another. It brings joy and it brings healing to their hearts and souls in very, very deep levels. Wounded hearts, Gary, is one of one of my big concerns. Those that have wounded hearts. or or improper teaching, And they feel like they just can't share themselves.

And I know you've seen that many times and heard that story many times. Oh, you're exactly right. And I think we fail to recognize what you've just been sharing. Nathan, as we come near the end of our time together today, what do you say to the husband listening who says, if she would just have more sex, intimacy wouldn't be a problem.

Well, I think you and I both have heard that a few times over the years, without question. And, you know, I wonder if in the early days of my marriage, I wasn't right there saying the same thing. It would be like if my wife just knew how to meet my needs, everything would be fine. But even in the physical and sexual aspect of our relationship. I'm going back to the the fact that we need to begin in our own hearts.

understanding the reality of the marriage, the calling on our lives. And I do think it's very important that husbands begin to understand their wives are created differently. emotionally Our wives are needing to connect. with their hearts, not just with their bodies. And I think that husbands so often need to understand the value of respecting the differences in the way that our wives view sexual intimacy.

It's very profitable for the husband and wife, very enjoyable for the husband and the wife. But we don't necessarily look at it exactly the same on many occasions.

So it's not a tool to manipulate one another with. or to hurt or offend one another with, but sexual intimacy is a gift from the Lord. That God has given us as husbands and wives to be united physically. Dan. emotionally and spiritually as well.

Well, Nathan, I want to thank you for being with us today on the program and thank you for writing this book. And in this area of sexual intimacy, the book is very, very helpful, very, very practical. And I want to encourage our listeners today to get a copy and share it with each other. I mean, I think we've touched on really three crucial issues today, and you do in the book.

So again, thanks for being with us today, and thanks for what you continue to do to minister to couples. It's been my privilege. Thank you so much for allowing me to join you today. Again, the title of the resource at the website BuildingRelationships.us is by Nathan Groom's The Quest for Intimacy. Again, you can find out more at buildingrelationships.us.

And next week. Your questions and comments about a relationship struggle or a question about how to use "The 5 Love Languages" . Don't miss our February Dear Gary broadcast. Our thanks to Janice Backing and Steve Wick for their work behind the scenes. Building Relationships with Dr.

Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening. Love Moody Radio?

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