Ruth had honest questions about her struggles, and her friend, Johnny Erickson-Tada, shared answers from her life. I saw it in Johnny's life again and again, how faithful. God is and how we can trust Him and then I saw it in my own life too and in my own difficulties. I think that is the amazing grace in life scales. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr.
Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Today, author Ruth Schleppe-Verboom talks about how helping her friend turned into her friend helping her. our featured resource at buildingrelationships.us. is Ruth's book Sunday Evenings with Johnny. The subtitle is Conversations About Life's Chaos and Amazing Grace.
Again, find out more at buildingrelationships.us. And Gary, I think we are in for a treat today as we talk about the force of nature that is Johnny Erickson Todd.
Well, I agree with you, Chris. You know, I've heard her speak on numerous occasions, and it's amazing, you know, what God has done in her and through her with all of her problems and physical, you know, disabilities and so forth.
So I'm looking forward to talking with a friend of hers who spent a lot of time with her.
So, yeah, and I think our audience is going to really enjoy our time today.
Well, let me introduce our guest. Ruth Schleppe-Verboom first heard Johnny speak as a teen in the Netherlands, and she became a lifelong fan of Johnny. Years later, they met face-to-face and heart-to-heart after Ruth and her husband moved to California. Ruth now lives both in the U.S. and the Netherlands.
We're reaching her there today. Her book is our featured resource, Sunday Evenings with Johnny: Conversations about Life's Chaos and Amazing Grace. Find out more at buildingrelationships.us.
Well Ruth, welcome to Building Relationships.
Well, thank you, doctor Chapman. It's a real honor to speak with you and Chris today. I've grown up with the love languages and now to speak to you in person. That's great. Thank you so much for having me.
Well, we are delighted to have you. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your family. I understand your husband is a filmmaker? That's correct. My husband Helmut Schleppe is a filmmaker and we were married I think we were married about six years, had two small children.
We lived in the Netherlands where I grew up and lived my whole life. And one day he said, I really want to make a movie. What do you think if we move to L Los Angeles? And it took me back a little bit. But I said, yeah, let's do it.
And so we did. We sold our house, we sold our businesses, and then we moved to Los Angeles. Dr. Chapman, we thought we were the coolest thing, but back in 1999 because we thought, wow, we are going to make a movie. But then it turned out that everybody wanted to make a movie in California and we just had to stand up in at the end of the line, back up in the end of the line.
Well, that's exciting. When did you first find out about Johnny and her life? I think that was in my early Teens, maybe I was 14, 15 years old when her book came out in the Netherlands and also her movie. And I remember I read the book, I saw the movie and I was so impressed. And then one day she was at a youth conference, a Christian youth conference, In the Netherlands And I was so excited to see her there and to hear her speak.
I don't even know what she spoke about. I don't even remember the message. but I do remember that I thought she was so beautiful So beautiful, beaming. or glowing and Later I realized that Her relationship with Jesus, it was something that I wanted too. That made her so beautiful.
I didn't even see her wheelchair or her disabilities. When you saw her at a concert then when you were around seventeen or so, what was your reaction to her message that day? I heard you just say you didn't remember too much about the message, but how did it impact you?
Well, I've I've been brought up in a Christian home. I can say that I've been a a believer all of my life. But this was different. What I saw with Johnny when she was on stage and Ken was there too and what I saw in her was just stunning. At first I thought in Europe we loved everything about California and about the US.
And so I thought, oh, it's this American feel what she brings, you know. But I honestly think it was just Jesus in her shining through and her. complete reliance on him. That's what made her so beautiful then, and now too.
Well, I can certainly understand that. For any listener who doesn't know Johnny's story, Can you give us an overview of what happened to her and why she is so loved around the world? Yes, sure.
So Johnny was seventeen when she dove in shallow water and she broke her neck. And since then she was she is paralyzed from her neck down. And when I say paralyzed, I mean completely paralyzed. She needs help with everything. She needs help to scratch her nose, to have a sip of water, All these things, and you can imagine as a 17-year-old who is about to go to college and jump into that part of her life to be paralyzed.
It's So hopeless, and that was exactly what she was. There was no hope, and she was. Very depressed and struggling with Howard's new life or what her new life would look like. I think we can honestly say that it was a wrestling with God. She even wanted to die is what she told me.
And Even that she couldn't do by herself, and nobody wanted to help her. And out of this deep suffering grew a life of extraordinary faith. She has been reliant on Jesus. and trusting him in all her Difficulties and disappointments. And disabilities.
I think any of us who have seen her or even heard about her have been greatly impressed, you know, by the way she has handled her situation by putting her dependence in God.
Now, did did you have any idea that you would some day write a book about your friendship with her? No, not at all, because when I help her. I helped her on Sunday evenings and then we are in the intimacy of her bedroom and her bathroom.
So it's very private, it's personal. Our conversations were very vulnerable and honest.
So I I never saw that this would be a book. But everything we did talk about, I... I wanted to hold on to, and I needed to think about it more because it was so deep and. Honest and difficult sometimes for me to understand.
So I started to write things down for myself or for my children. to show it to them or share it with them or for me to not forget about what we talked about. And one time I remember it, it was after a very difficult time in Johnny and Kent's life. I wrote some things down in my journal and I sent it to her. And the next Sunday when I saw her, she said, Ruth, I read it, and this should be a book.
And you, Doctor Chipman, as you probably know, Johnny has written so many books. Um I think she wrote more than 40. And I thought, whoa, a book.
So I never expected that. And now it is a book. Yeah. And I'm so excited about the book and to share. Johnny's story with more and more people.
So how did the Sunday evenings get started? Because you were s you spent a a significant number of time with her on Sunday evenings.
So did she invite you to help her? Or how did that get started? It took a while before I started helping her. Because I remember I knew her as I As I mentioned When I was younger. And when we moved to California, my husband, who is a filmmaker, started doing some documentaries for Johnny and Friends, the organization that Johnny founded.
And that's how he got to know her personally. And then we were looking for a church at that time, and she had invited my husband and us, the whole family, to come to their church. Not so spiritual of me, but I really wanted to go to that church and become Johnny's best friend. That was my main goal of going to the church. And I remember right away I asked Johnny, oh, I'm Ruth, and hello, and how are you?
And whatever. And can I help you? How can I help you? And every time she just smiled at me and said, Oh, yes, no, it's just so nice to see you. And we were just polite and friendly together.
And I think C realized very well because at that time I had four children, four small children under six years old. I think C realized very well that I wasn't able to commit to helping her.
So it it took a while and we became friends in the church and then after a few years she asked me if I could help her in the mornings and later on in the evenings and that became the Sunday evening. Oh yes. You write in the book that you, yourself, have disabling factors in your life that other people can't see. Would you like to talk a little bit about that? Yes, I do.
I do. I do think everybody Has disabling factors. When I say disabling factors, I'm thinking of vectors or things that hinder us to reach our goals or to do what we think is our purpose for that day or for our lives or in that relationship or circumstances. And for Johnny, it's obvious because we all see her disabilities in the wheelchair in the needs that she has and how we can help her, but my disabling factors are just as large, but I'm very able to hide them. My disabling factors, for example, is depression.
I got depressed a lot of times. And I was ashamed of that. I worked really hard to hide that from my friends and from my community. or I get overwhelmed. And those things are holding me back, are hindering me in the things that I think.
I need to do or the things I think that are my purpose or my goals. Yeah, and with Johnny I learned that Her goals in life or her purpose in life. Would have been so different if she could have filled in those blanks, if she would have filled in her. her purpose or her goals. when she was a 17-year-old going to college and just stepping into that phase in her life.
betrough her disability through her disabling factors, through my disabling factors, I've been able to see what God has as my purpose. And then the things that I sold were We're like cracks or even parts that were missing because they were disabling me. it turned out that God was filling them up or didn't even need them to help me fulfill my goals or purpose. in that day or relationship or in my life. If that makes sense.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You know, you you also say that the first thing you noticed about Johnny when you were with her is her ability not to let her circumstances take control So explain that to us. Just earlier I mentioned how beautiful I thought that Johnny was, and I think this is the most attractive part of it, that see her circumstances or her feelings. And it's not that she ignores them, she addresses them well, But she doesn't linger on them. She doesn't linger on her circumstances or or however those circumstances make her feel.
Most of the times I do the opposite. I feel what I feel and my emotions will tell me how to respond to that or react to that. And with Johnny, she knows where to go with those circumstances or those disappointing circumstances or feelings, and she knows. where to go to, to go to God with them, bring them back to God. And I think as Christians We often hear that we shouldn't address our feelings too much, or we should, come on, let's go.
At least that's how I was raised. Don't complain, don't do this, just. You know? Get up and go. But with Johnny I noticed that she did address her feelings, her circumstances, the disappointments.
but addressed them in a way where it was safe and where she brought them back to Jesus. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because I think all of us have circumstances, some of which are negative and very painful.
So it's not a matter of denying the circumstances is what I hear you saying. It's acknowledging them, but you're taking them to God. You know, Lord, how I'm feeling right now about this. But you're letting Him walk with you through the circumstances. Yes, very much so, yeah.
So you learned some lessons from Johnny when she and Ken, her husband, contracted COVID in 2020. Were you able to help care for her in that time? Not at first, because when COVID First, it hit the world, it was so uncertain and unknown. Ken was very wise and he sequestered Johnny and himself. As much as possible.
And there were only a few women who were able to help Johnny. And I wasn't one of them because my children who had moved out by then all moved back in.
So my world was not so small and I I was more of a risk for somebody for as Johnny with her fragile health. But after a while, when when she contracted COVID, I went over to her house to help her. and we all thought, wow, this is it, this might be it, because she was so weak and she was so sick. And then Ken got sick too, and It was just a very difficult time. I write about that in the book too.
Dr. Chapman, if we are having a cough or we are having a fever, we are able to sit up, cough. And mostly do whatever we need to do, but Johnny's not able to do that, and she needs help with everything.
So her her body was just in so much pain and was so tired. You could tell it was so tired. And I remember driving home one night and I was so upset with God. that he couldn't No, I shouldn't say couldn't, but had that he didn't take it away, the COVID, or that he didn't prevent her from having COVID. And I thought one day when she's better again and when she's back to her strength, I'm going to ask her, because I really don't think this is fair.
And I remember when I asked her weeks later, I said, Johnny, isn't it enough? Are we are you done now? How do you deal with this? And she just looked at me. And she said, You know, Ruth, very calmly, Very early on, I learned to pray 80-20.
And that is twenty per cent of my prayer. is about the problem. And then the whole 80% is away from the problem. focus on God or on other things. God, what do you want to teach me?
How can I grow in this? How can I bless others even in this? And I thought, wow. For me, that's the world upside down because I I thought I had a good prayer life. But probably two hundred percent of my prayer were about my problem.
And then after my amen, I would pick it up again and start all over again. And it changed, I must say, it changed my life. It changed my prayer life, but it also changed my life. and the effect of it. I actually made a necklace from it because I wanted to remind myself to pray 80 twenty, so I wear it on the necklace right now.
I must admit that's a new concept for me. But I hear what you're saying. We tend to focus when you're going through difficulty. We focus on, oh, God, deliver me. In fact, if you read the Psalms, David often just spends a whole psalm, you know, begging God to deliver him from all the things he's going through.
But what I hear you saying and what Johnny was saying is, yes, it's okay to share those things with God, but don't just let that be the only part of your prayer. Ask Him for His hand in your situation, but realize there are other things I need to be talking to God about. And one of them, of course, as you mentioned, is praying that God will, what do you want me to learn through this? But also praying for other people in other situations.
So that's pretty powerful. Yeah, it really was. It really was. And also just to have my perspective away from the problem. And again, not to ignore it or be naive about it.
but have my perspective on greater things and on God. Yeah. Now when you think about the book, who is the person you hope reads this book, the one person you hope reads this book, and what do you hope that they take away from it? Hmm. Yeah, that's a good question.
I hope that the person who reads this book, who picks up this book, is the person that feels that there is no hope. and that her life might seem so difficult or alone. And the circumstances are so heavy. She doesn't know how to change them and I hope she picks up the book. I think this is a book for her.
and I pray that she will not look at the circumstances, but in the midst of the circumstances will see how faithful God is. And how God does have a plan and a purpose for each one of us. And Johnny and my life are so very, very different. But I saw it in Johnny's life again and again, how faithful God is. And how we can trust him.
And then I saw it in my own life too, and in my own difficulties. I think that is the amazing grace in life's chaos. which is why you subtitled Sunday Evenings with Johnny Conversations about Life's Chaos and Amazing Grace. I get it.
Now, Ruth and Gary, I love these lessons that we're talking about, but I really want listeners to hear a little of Johnny's voice and her spirit. During this hour.
So let me play an excerpt for you here. This is from a program that Johnny was on with me a couple of years ago. And I asked her that same question we asked you, Ruth, to kind of do a flyover of her spiritual journey. This is Johnny Erickson Tata.
Well, as many of our listeners may know, I was a Active Healthy. A teenager took a reckless dive. Enter shallow water. broke my neck it snapped my head back i crunched my cervical vertebrae severing my spinal cord. And I've lived for 56 years in a wheelchair.
without use of my hands or my legs. And As most people would guess, I was very depressed at first, but thankfully. There were caring Christian friends. who just rallied around me, prayed for me. They kept me connected to reality.
They kept me from withdrawing into social isolation. loved on me they They just treated me like their friend and I really do think it was their prayers. You know, people often ask me, how did you? How did you get up out of depression after breaking your neck and I I point to people's prayers. Because I really think when it comes to depression, Uh we wrestle not against the uh flesh and blood of spinal cord injury or a bad marriage or a boring job or You know, a poor, poor bank balance.
We wrestle against powers and principalities. that love nothing more than to take our disadvantages in life and turn them into Reasons to plummet into depression, but we don't need to, we don't have to. Um, God tells us his grace is sufficient, and so these friends reminded me. of these basic truths and I just started building on them, Chris. And that was many, many years ago.
And once I began to experience such Peace in my life. and contentment just knowing christ just seeing that how he could make me happy even in a wheelchair. Then I wanted to pass these blessings on to others. And so next year, Johnny and Friends, which is the ministry I started way back when, Johnny and Friends will celebrate 45 years in outreach. And I'm just grateful I've got the health and strength to keep working at that ministry and doing what I do, passing on the blessings to others who have so little.
His strength is made perfect in weakness. I mean, you live that out every day, right?
Well, that is God's way of having us live, not to be ashamed of our weaknesses, not to... drug them or medicate them or Surgically exorcise them or divorce them or run away from them. Um but to live with them and not in our own energy, but to present those weaknesses to God. and just simply say, I can't do this. Lord Jesus, I have no strength for this, but you do.
So I can't do quadriplegia. I can't do life, but I can do. All things through you. as you strengthen me. And I think if King David.
In the Psalms, King David could say, I am poor and needy. Then we ought to be able to say it. I mean, if the king of Israel, the mighty king David... sees himself as poor and needy. We should wake up in the morning and not forget how needy we are.
and how poor we are. Without the grace of God, without him we can do nothing. And Chris, if my life were to be spent And reminding anyone of anything. I would ask them not to run out the front door on automatic cruise control. But to recognize your need of God when you walk out the front door.
For he gives grace to the humble. That is those people who recognize their poor and needy, but he resists the proud. people who think they can uh go at it in their own steam. They're self-reliant, self-resourceful.
So I I don't want to live that way and I encourage other people. To uh to see themselves as requiring The grace of the Lord Jesus every morning as well. It's what I do, it's how I live. You're listening to the Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman podcast.
He's the author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Our guest today is author Ruth Schleppe-Verboom. You can find her book at buildingrelationships.us. It's titled Sunday Evenings with Johnny. Conversations about life's chaos and amazing grace.
Find out more and discover simple ways to strengthen your relationships at buildingrelationships.us. That's buildingrelationships.us. Ruth, you have a chapter in the book titled The chapter where she saved my marriage. Can you tell us more about that, how she impacted your marriage? Yes, I can.
The chapter where she saved my marriage. The chapter starts like this: it says, When Johnny saved my marriage, it was about seven AM or so. And of course, that's never the case, that it was in just a short moment, because this has been going on for years. But she told me something that changed my perspective of life and that later on when my husband and I were going through a very difficult time. saved our marriage and kept us together.
It was actually Johnny is very big on mission statements. And I had never heard of a mission statement before when she told me. And her mission statement is to be the best audio visible representative of God's grace. in difficult situations or in suffering. And she made her mission statement when she was 23 and then lived her life according to that mission statement.
And she's now, as we know, 76-year-old, and she is I do see her as the best audiovisual representative of God's grace in suffering.
So for me that new concept of making a mission statement that I had never done. I started to write one for my own. And at that time, my children were all young. They were between four and ten about that age for children And my mission statement was to introduce them to God. And to show them that everything is in God's hands and that God can be trusted in every situation.
That was my mission statement. And then a year or two later, my husband and I. Hit a roadblock in our marriage and had such a difficult time that we didn't know how to continue together. It was very difficult to communicate. We were both At our wits' end, we both tried so hard, and we both felt that we loved the other person, that we did well by loving the other person.
It didn't land by the other person and it it was just difficult and it was lonely and it we were both bitter and disappointed and it was very difficult. And at one time my husband said, Maybe you should just leave. Take the children. I will take care of you. But we should just end this.
And For me, It felt like a relief that he said that. Because we uh we had horrible fights and it was just a difficult, difficult time. But then I thought of my mission statement. And I saw that there's no way I can divorce my husband and have the children later on ask me, but why didn't you trust in God? And didn't you say that everything is in God's hands and God can be trusted?
So, I was stuck because of my own mission statement. I knew I couldn't divorce my husband. And I'm not saying this. as the answer for everybody, but for me it was very clear We had to stay together.
So I said that to my husband and We had this conversation and we stayed together. And he had to learn a lot of things and it didn't come easy to us. But I can honestly say that God has been so faithful and that He helped my husband, that He helped me. Did he helped grow our love again, our understanding and our communication better. And he was so faithful.
Carrie, we talk about these kinds of turnarounds in marriage all the time. You talk about it. We talk about it here on the program. But this is a living, breathing example. I mean, she was ready to say, I'm out of here, to her husband, and he was too.
There's nothing here left for us. And look at the light then that is coming from this. What's your reaction to that, Gary? I was sitting here thinking, uh as Ruth was talking about a couple. that I've been dealing with recently.
Who are right where she was. And I know because I've seen God do it many times through the years, I know there is hope when there feels like there's no hope. And if we just don't give up, But turn to God to help us. He is there and he will help us. And that's what I pray for every time I'm working with a couple like that.
I've sometimes told them, you know, I can see how you don't have hope.
So go on my hope for a while because I've seen God do change marriages like this many, many times. Yes. But it comes with things like she's saying, you know, she just realized, you know. I'm not going to do this. I've promised I've told my children this is my mission in life, and I'm going to trust God.
This is a bad situation and hard, but I'm going to trust God through this. And she did. And yes, it wasn't easy, but you do come through it when you put your trust in God. It's just a powerful reality. I wonder, Ruth, what you would say to someone.
who is listening today. Let's say the wife is listening. And I'm reading the words from your book. There is nothing here for you. I can't do it anymore.
It's never good enough for you. I'm exhausted. Don't even come back. I will take care of you and the children, but don't come back. If a wife has heard that from her husband, or vice versa, what would you say to that person who's in that deep, hard place right now?
Yes, I hear you. And I think I would say to her, Go to God. and S came to take care of your heart. Don't expect it from anybody else, but ask God to take care of your heart. And even what Dr.
Chapman just said, that if you don't Know how to trust any more, take it from me. but trust God, because He is so trustworthy. and ask him to take care of your heart, and he will. He absolutely will. and there's no better place to go with your heart.
when your heart is hurt and disappointed and Hopeless. There is no better place to go. No safer place to go We certainly agree with that, Ruth. And we know that God can help us no matter what the situation, you know. Let me ask you another question, uh Ruth.
I think the person who picks up this book is going to read the entire book, okay? I think that's just so gripping. But if someone could only read one chapter. Which one would you hope they read, and why?
Well, I think they need to read at least ten. But let's go with one. I think it's the chapter about Job. Job and everything that he lost. And in Jo in the chapter about Job, I talk about My father, who is ninety-nine today, and I introduce my father as a man of simple faith.
And I don't mean simplified or naive, but it's a very simple and safe faith that my father has. And then I talk about Johnny, because I I was struggling with a question about Job that I thought, okay, Job, he this happened and that happened and that was horrible, but then he got everything back. Because God promised that he would have everything back, but he didn't get his children back. He got the same amount of children back. Later on in life he got a new set of ten children, but he didn't get The first 10 children back.
So, how is that fair? And I couldn't understand that. And I asked my father, and my father said, Well, you know, it's very simple. They are with God, and God is so good. And I thought that's way too simple for me.
That's not true. That's not true. So I thought, I'm going to ask this to Johnny and she will know what to do. And then I come to Johnny and turns out she has a simple faith too.
So she says, But Ruth, they are with God. Her answer was also very short and simple, and I didn't see it at that time. But now I realize that their faith is not simple, but it is uncluttered, and a faith that rests more on trust than on a complex situation, on complexity. And I'm I'm learning that. And then I was reading Job and then I thought, wow, this is...
Amazing what Job is going through, but mostly what how honest and vulnerable Job's. Relationship is with God. He can ask anything, he can feel anything, he can express anything to God, and God. listens and lets him. Respectfully, Job is respectful to God, but he still has so many questions and frustrations and.
Disagreement with God. He fans them all and then All the way in chapter thirty eight, there's God. And it's just like a mic drop. It's Here I am. This is me.
This is you. There's a big difference between us. And what do you know? But it's such a loving. Loving, beautiful way, how God responds to Job.
And then all the way at the end in the book of Job. Job says, I thought I knew you, but now I see you.
So, his faith has become so simple. That's all he has to say. I see you. And that's it? Ruth, let me jump in here.
There's one thing I know about Johnny Erickson Tata, and that is she loves to sing and she loves hymns. Did you two sing any hymns together?
Well, Johnny always had a playlist, and most of the times it was phrase music or hymns, and then oftentimes she would sing And I would just listen. Is there any song that you remember her singing that touched you as you listened to her? Oh yes, definitely. One time she sang for me Be still, my soul, the Lord is on thy side Bear patiently the cross of grief or pain. Leave to thy God to order and provide, In every change He faithful will remain.
Be still, my soul. Yeah. Well, this is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. Our guest is Ruth Schleppe-Verboom, author of the book Sunday Evenings with Johnny.
You can find out more at our website, buildingrelationships.us.
Okay. Ruth, I know as an author sometimes one chapter in a book is a little more difficult than other chapters. Did you find that true in your experience in writing this book? And if so, what was the most difficult chapter for you to write? Yes, it is true.
It was difficult sometimes to write, and sometimes it was just a beautiful process of writing it again and digging into deeper into that situation or the truth that Johnny explained to me. I think the most difficult uh chapters for me to where to write were where I was most vulnerable. and the times of my own difficulties or struggles. And reliving them in writing, and I wanted to be honest, I wanted to be vulnerable in my writing. And I wanted to um Not pretend.
But I also wanted to to make sense to everybody who would read it. And Yeah, so th th those those chapters were difficult sometimes. Yeah, I think we can all identify with that. What did the writing process do for you? as you kind of recalled and relived Uh these life lessons from Johnny.
Well it took a while between when Johnny said, Oh, Roos, this should be a book and until it actually was written and was a book. I had made the outline and the book proposal with all the chapters. but I was kind of holding on to it. Until I knew who was going to publish the book and if they wanted to change anything.
So I kind of put it all on hold and pause it. And then To actually sit down and rewrite it was sometimes reliving the situation or the time with Johnny. many times I would go back to her and ask her to explain a little bit more. There's for example, there's one chapter that speaks of the weakness in our weaknesses. And I didn't get it.
I didn't get it for a long time. That I was telling Johnny about a difficult situation and she said, you know, sometimes God will reveal the weakness in our weaknesses. And I was determined to find out for myself what c meant, because it was I was puzzled. When she said that, That, for example, was a chapter that I Would go back to her many times and ask her, is this what you mean?
Well, how about this? And I read this in this chapter of the Bible or this part of scripture and We would come together and we would dig deeper into those truths. Ruth, could you talk to the person who doesn't see God's amazing grace in their life's chaos Uh what would you say to that person?
Well, the thing that we have in common all of us when life is chaotic and difficult. is that it's so big. And it's very hard to very difficult to look over. over death mountain of difficulty and disappointing and suffering and sometimes there is not even a solution. Or sometimes it is It is so difficult that it doesn't change anything, that it won't change, that we know it won't change.
But what I've learnt from Johnny? And the amazing grace that she showed me in her life's chaos and that she also was able to show me in the chaos in my life or the difficulties in my life is that God knows. God knows about the chaos. God understands as no other about the chaos. and that he is so trustworthy.
He's so trustworthy to guide you through. But it asks something from us as well. We need to if we keep looking at our chaos and our difficult situation or the suffering. it's very hard to look at other things. If we give it back to God And if we ha if we remind ourselves to do the 80-20, just as Johnny reminded me that 20% is about my problem, and then 80%, which is if my prayer life is five sentences, only one sentence is about my problem, and all other four sentences.
Are away from the problem, are about God, towards God, towards what do you want to teach me? How can I grow in this? What else is there for me to see? Other than the situation. Yeah, I think you're exactly right.
We will never ever understand everything that's happening to us. It's just the reality. We will not understand. Yes. But we can honestly put our trust in God.
You know, that he Is with us. He knows what we don't know and ask him to give us the ability to. Walk through this. With Us. We're not alone.
He wants to walk with us through this experience.
Well, Ruth, we've been talking about the example that Johnny has set for all of us. And there may be a person who's been listening who thinks, well, Johnny just sounds like she was perfect. She never got frustrated or made any mistakes. And what would you say about that?
Well, I think that's what I saw too, because I like to call Johnny a a modern day saint and I am her wannabe. But what I've seen with Johnny is not that her that she's not frustrated or that she's not d disappointed or that Her difficulties don't affect her, but what I've seen is that she has such a short line with Jesus, like right away. C is Vegas.
Something very difficult happens, or she has pain, or the cancer that she endured a couple of times comes back, or She is stricken by her chronic pain in her back and sees with Jesus right away. Her eyes are fixed on Jesus. And many people ask me what I learned from Johnny and I think I could write a million chapters about it. Or I could say it in just one sentence, and that is, Her eyes are fixed on Jesus, always.
Well, Ruth, let me thank you for being with us today and for writing this book. I mean, I know this took a lot of time and effort, and as you mentioned, over a long period of time, but I believe this book is going to help a lot of people because many people are familiar with Johnny. They've seen it at a distance. And this book brings it up close. And other people don't know about her.
I think we'll learn about her through this book.
So again, thank you for being with us today. And I join you in praying that God will use this book to touch the lives of many people.
Well, thank you, Dr. Chapman and Chris. Thank you so much. It's been a joy for me to be with you today and speak to both of you. We have loved hearing your voice.
Ruth Schleppe-Verboom has joined us today. You can find out more about her book at the website buildingrelationships.us. The title is Sunday Evenings with Johnny: Conversations about Life's Chaos and Amazing Grace. I know it'll encourage you. Just go to buildingrelationships.us.
And next week, How do you find hope when life doesn't make sense? Don't miss a conversation with Jennifer Rothschild in one week. Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve Wick and Janice Spacking. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
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