On Our Way Home | Coleen Chao

These are such solid, massive truths. that hold me steady when the the quaking comes.

So yeah, my heart is helped. to remember the realities that I've written about. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of The New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Today, what is heaven like?

What happens the moment you die? We're going to consider some of these deep questions about eternity straight ahead. Colleen Chow is back with us. We talked with her about three years ago. And at the time her prognosis was not good, but she is back with an inspiring and moving book.

It's our featured resource titled On Our Way Home. Reflections of heaven in the face of death. I'm so glad that we're starting out the new year with this topic. You can find out more at buildingrelationships.us. Gary, as a pastor, you've walked through suffering and end-of-life issues with an awful lot of people.

Do you see heaven differently today than you did, say, when you were in your 20s or 30s? Absolutely. Not only the folks in the church, but also my own parents. uh both of whom died, and then my sister who died at the age of fifty eight. after her eight-year battle with cancer.

Uh but yeah, uh you know, when you or facing death on a regular basis, which is a pastor is doing. There's an awareness that your life is going to someday walk through that same doorway. But the prospects of heaven, you know, even just in reading the scriptures, it's great. As Christians, you know, there's a difference because we're not facing death alone. We're facing death in fellowship with God.

That makes all the difference in the world.

So I'm excited about our talk today. I am too. I can't wait to hear Colleen again. Let me reintroduce her. She's written extensively about finding God's goodness in the unexpected chapters of her life, including singleness, chronic illness, and now terminal cancer.

She's worked as an editor and writer, an English teacher. Three years ago, we featured her book, In the Hands of a Fiercely Tender God. If you go to buildingrelationships.us, you'll see her latest. I'm so glad we can feature it today. On our way home, Reflections of Heaven in the Face of Death.

Go to buildingrelationships.us.

Well Colleen, welcome back to Building Relationships. Thank you so much for having me, Gary. I appreciate being here.

Well first, for those who don't know, tell us about your health journey the past few years and and how you're doing now. Yeah, I um eight years ago I was diagnosed with cancer for the first time and we went through that whole Process of major surgery and chemo and all the things, and thought that we had kind of nabbed that cancer. gotten it all out and then a couple years later I received a recurrence diagnosis and then a terminal diagnosis shortly thereafter as we saw how extensive it was. And I thought I wouldn't live out that first year. And so it's been.

Over four years now, and God has given more days, and it's just a gift, but it has been a long journey. Full of ups and downs, for sure. Oh, I'm sure having walked with others through that journey. Yeah, it's an up and down journey for sure. Is the seriousness of your diagnosis part of why you wanted to write a book about heaven?

Yeah, absolutely. I you know, after I received that, Terminal diagnosis, I started digging deep into scripture, and there were things I just assumed that I knew. About heaven, and all of a sudden, you know, here's this rubber meets the road reality. And I started plowing deep. To have some handles on how to walk through what I thought would be maybe a year.

Left of life to find hope in the word and how do I navigate this and. all of a sudden, I had pages and pages and pages and pages of notes. You know, I fought the idea of making those notes into a book for a while, and then finally. realized that it could help others, so that was the impetus for for the book.

Well, I'm glad you responded to the impetus.

Now you say in the book that you felt like a toddler giving a speech at a NASA convention. How did you get over the hurdle of writing about this huge topic of heaven? Yeah, that's it. I still feel like that when I look at the book. You know, it's God uses the foolish things of the world, right?

And the weak things. And I think I finally. I listened to my husband's wisdom and he said, You need to be, you just need to be faithful. You don't need to, you know, be an authority. And I just appreciated that because I am so far from an authority on this topic, but just to be faithful, to share the comfort that God had.

given me, continues to give me. And to be able to share that with others, because there are so many walking through, not only. a terminal diagnosis, but a myriad of sufferings. um where heaven can be such a hopeful Um strengthening promise for us as we face the hard days.

Well, other than your illness, was there a particular moment or a desire that sparked the idea for this book? Mm. Yeah, I think it comes back to that desire to truly enter in with others and and share These sweet truths, and um I think part of this was the fact that A lot of people who receive a terminal diagnosis don't end up having more days, and I felt the I think the weighty gift and the extra time And why wouldn't I do this? To comfort others, because God is extending my days and.

Some people who I've connected with, they have three months and they're looking for something in that short time. And there are other encouraging resources out there, but if I could speak into that as well and be another voice. um in their journey home that's a privilege that's an honor Yeah, and I think that's wise because, you know, God wants to use our hard times as well as the good times or the healthy times in our life, you know. Colleen, what is one misconception of heaven that you had before you started writing this book? Mm.

Yeah, I actually, it's really fascinating. I had this idea that Death would kind of, because eternity exists outside of time as we know it here. I thought it would kind of light speed me to Jesus's return, bodily resurrection. And the more I read, In Scripture, the more I thought, there's this room for an intermediate type state. And that was a big thing for me to just wrestle with and wrap my arms around because I didn't not like the idea of being without a body for a time, being in a soul state.

And so, and there's a lot of mystery to that.

So, I'm not saying it's clear-cut or, you know, everything I d I understand everything, but I think I, yeah, I thought it would just kind of. I die and there's the resurrection.

So Things like that along the way that I had just assumed and hadn't really studied deeply and owned it for myself. Yeah, because some of that's rather unclear, you know, when you're reading the scriptures, yeah. What's a common misconception of heaven that you think people in the church or in our culture might have? Yeah. By and large, it's that heaven is boring.

And honestly, I I don't know where I tried to kind of track down where did that come from and couldn't really pinpoint it. Different people say different things about where that theory came from, but it's a bonker's terrible Teaching along the way, where we have these pictures of white clouds and harps and white robes, and just to me, that's torture. The idea of just sitting there strumming a harp forever.

So I think there's a lot of that idea. Like, man, heaven's going to be this one-note, boring existence. And it is. Obviously, quite the opposite.

So I think addressing some of that in the book was exciting to paint these. Kind of wild, colorful, mind-blowing pictures. That's exciting. Yeah, yeah. I think you're right.

I hear people many times even say, hear pastors say things like, forever we're going to be standing in front of the throne with our hands raised, praising God for all that. And yeah, I mean, that's a worthy thought, but I think eternity is more than that.

So yeah, I think you're right. Yes, yes.

So what were some of the greatest challenges of writing about eternity?

Well, one, I mean, we already addressed the one, just feeling so inadequate, but then Also, the idea that this would be in print when there is so much mystery, how do you decide what to put into words when truly God has left A lot unknown. And so there was a freedom in being able to say. What we do know is for our hope. And our strengths. And what we don't know is for our good.

You know, God knows what we can handle on this side of things, and our bodies and our brains aren't meant. To handle all the truth of it, the reality of it. But that was hard to know, how do I even? dare try to put into words what is mostly mystery still to us with our dim eyes and finite brains.

So yes, that was a challenge. Yeah, I can see that, you know, because the scripture does say something to the extent of eye has not seen, ear has not heard, you know, all the things that God has in mind for for us, you know. Yes.

So there's a lot of unknown, and I can see how what I can see what you're saying. Mm yeah.

Now I'm sure you did a lot of research as you were writing this book. Were there particular books along with the Bible that you found helpful? Absolutely. And what I did is I decided not to read any current books or books. Basically, written in the last maybe 70 years.

So I went back, back, back. And what I found was surprising that so many believers wrote about heaven. Um Past ages, and we write very little about it now. And so there was a wealth, but I had to go back. And so quite a few books by many, many different saints, but they were all dead, alive in Christ.

Yeah. Very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

How did your concept of heaven change as you were writing the book? Yeah. I think and I've told people I This writing process was Such a Sacred, beautiful exchange between Jesus and me, and it was for my soul. And I think what it did. Was I owned this stuff.

You know, when you have to write it and make it make sense to someone else, or at least try to. it went deep into my soul and it was Steadying me through some months where it looked again like I wouldn't make it for very long. Life felt very tenuous as I was writing, and I clung to. Of these truths. And so heaven came near.

You know, it just felt solid and substantial, and nothing conceptual about it, nothing ethereal. It was very. Like you know, saturated in these truths. And so it became As thin as, like, I say a gossip or veil, like cobweb, you know, thin, just how near it felt. And I wish we could all live in that all the time, you know, that kind of near reality.

Yeah. Yeah. How did writing this book impact your own heart? You alluded to that, I think, in what you just said. But as you deal with the daily with your own mortality and as you said, knowing that It could be soon.

It's been longer than you anticipated already.

So how did that impact your own heart? I love that question. Yeah, it really does strengthen me. There are regularly midnight hours that are just quite dark and quite heavy, especially with my son and husband knowing all of the things. all the reality that it is for us and those things that I've written, I actually I usually don't reread my you know, like my books or my but I will go back to these chapters because they're They're promises that I have to keep in front of me, and it strengthens my heart.

And so both in the process of originally writing this, even in the notes that I was taking before I was writing the book, and then the book writing, and then even now, these are such solid, massive truths. That hold me steady when the quaking comes.

So, yeah, my heart has helped to remember the realities. that I've written about. Colleen Chow is joining us here on this very first Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman program in January, the new year. And I'm so excited about her book, On Our Way Home.

Reflections of heaven in the face of death. You can find it at the website buildingrelationships.us. Colleen, the last time you were with us, You were talking about your son, and you just mentioned your son and your husband, but your son was younger. He's a teenager now. And I'm wondering if you've been able to share some of these heavenly concepts that you've been looking at with him.

Absolutely. It's one of the things I could literally cry over the mercy of God. That Jeremy would now be fourteen, and we talk about these things in. in just planal conversation. It's not like a special, hey, let's sit and talk about heaven.

This is part of our ongoing reality. And we talk about eternity like regularly and very casually even, even though it's beautiful and weighty. it's just part of our family's reality. And it's so near and it's so almost tangible.

So we talk about things he and I told him from the beginning when he was nine, almost ten, when I was terminally diagnosed, and he was six the first time around.

So This is just Part of the fabric of our family, but I told him you can ask anything, you can say anything, and so not only do we talk about. eternity but the process of death. And I think that's a really healthy thing. And I'm so grateful because he's at the age, he just has amazing insights, and our conversations are just phenomenal.

So yes, what a gift. Yeah, because I'm guessing most 14 year olds. Are not talking about heaven or death with their parents. Right. No, this is not normal.

Yeah. But when your parent is going through it and, you know, processing all of that, yeah, I can see that. And I think it's healthy. Yeah, it's very healthy for your son. Yeah.

Well we are human, of course, and let me ask you this. With your terminal diagnosis, Uh wh what is one of your biggest fears that you're facing? Uh what what kind of thoughts have run through your mind along those lines and how have you dealt with them? Yeah, I really appreciate that question because I think sometimes in sharing these things, it can sound like I've come to some kind of conclusion or arrival or and not at all. I mean, three nights ago, I had A wave of fear in the middle of the night that was so shocking.

Like, it just takes me by surprise. And it was shocking, and it was overwhelming. And it was just raw and real. And In those moments, I'm fearful of the process of dying, not. going to be with Jesus.

And I think, you know, if I could die in my sleep, That's an easy out for me. It's not for my loved ones, right? That's where my heart grieves. But to die in my sleep would be: hey, what's not to love about this, right? Like, I'm gonna go be with Jesus, and that's what we want by far.

It's better. But the process of dying and of knowing the grief that this brings my husband and son and best friends and extended family and church family and it's the the physical pain and the other night the fear was If I stop treatment, which is terrible, I would love to stop treatment. It will not take long, you know, and the process of bone metastases is. really cruel.

So it's the fear of Whoa, how do I even make this decision again? And how do I decide things like that while I weigh? you know mostly for my husband and son, weigh what's best for them and So yes, the fear comes and then in that fear, I attach to Jesus again. You know, it's like I'm. I'm bonding with him in a new and sweet way because I'm clinging to him and he's holding me fast.

And I find that his promises are true. And so I cling to scripture. The words he says are true. And they calm my heart and I have hope again and a way forward.

So it's it's amazing. It's supernatural, right? A mystery. Yeah. And in our humanity, of course.

No, none of us. Would say I'm looking forward I want to die.

Well, I shouldn't say that, but there are people who say that. You know, they commit suicide because of things that are going on in their lives and all that sort of thing. But I think all of us would like to live a long life here on earth as Christians and be productive with God and helping others and all of that. But God doesn't give all of His children a long life. It's just a reality.

Yep. Colleen, is this book, which is entitled On Our Way Home, is it primarily for people who are facing death? Or Are there others you think would would find it helpful? Mm. Yeah.

I mean, it's. definitely for those facing death or their loved ones death, but I really think It's for Anyone who's suffering and I think it's when we're suffering that we start thinking of eternity and our hearts are kind of turned toward things that matter and last.

So I think it's for Anyone who needs that hope of, man, this is not it. This is very meaningful what we're doing here. These days matter so much.

So much. But there is a better place, and we are hoping, and that's not a wishful thinking hope, right? Substantial solid promised hope. that our home is still to come.

So yes, I think it's for those who are hurting. and longing for that hope. What about the person who's listening today? who has a friend or a family member and they're in the same kind of situation you're in, a terminal diagnosis, what kind of hope can you get from reading your words here for them? Mm.

Oh yeah, it's so good. Yes, I and I've had the currently have those people in my life. And I think the The thing that I wanted to do in these pages was make it not heavy. And not big and cumbersome, but just a small book with short chapters. And Hopefully, my longing was to write about even the death process in a way that's not heavy, because I know for me, this process is heavy enough.

I don't need people giving me heavy words for a heavy journey. And so I probably didn't strike the perfect balance there because I'm human and limited. But my prayer was that it would not feel heavy, but hopeful. And um that it would just be this gentle companion for someone who's Facing a terminal diagnosis or death.

So that's my prayer.

Well, I think that would be the prayer of all of us. I mean, I really think this book can be helpful to people, whether they're sick or whether they're not. Because, listen. All of us. are keenly aware that death comes.

And we're living in a very violent society today. And uh not only do we have natural deaths, but we have deaths that are not natural. You know, people take their take other people's lives and all of that.

So I think even non-Christians have to think periodically, is there something beyond this life? And of course, the scriptures are very clear that for those who trust in Christ, there is something wonderful on the other side of death's door, you know. Yes, and I love that you mentioned unbelievers because that's one of the things I prayed for as I wrote the book. people who do not yet know Jesus. would feel Comfortable reading this book, and that it would stir in them a desire to.

Seek you to know more about Jesus, to read the Bible, open the Bible. I have very dear ones in my life who I've prayed for for years, and I wanted to write. This book in a way that they could pick it up and read it. And it wouldn't be Christianese, it wouldn't be too, again, too heavy, that it would be very accessible to them as they contemplate afterlife issues and have questions.

So that's one of my prayers, too. This is the Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman Podcast. He's the author of the New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . We're talking with author Colleen Chowd today.

She's written our featured resource at fivelovelanguages.com. It's titled, On Our Way Home, Reflections of Heaven in the Face of Death. Find out more at buildingrelationships.us or go to fivelovelanguages.com.

Okay, so we're talking about heaven. This book is about heaven.

So In a few words. What will heaven be like? Yeah. I like it. This is challenging.

I like it though. Beautiful, powerful, mind-boggling. It will be. be in the presence of Jesus. Is going to fulfill every desire we've ever had.

It'll satiate and Satisfy every longing that we've ever known. And that is the best I can do.

Okay, that's a short answer. I think that was great. I've had people ask me, are there going to be dogs in heaven? You don't deal with that in the book, do you? No, I didn't.

I didn't do a chapter on dogs in heaven. I should have, but. I think that's people who are particularly have a relationship with their dog, and they hope they'll see their dog in heaven. Yes, yes.

And who knows? I don't think the Bible clearly says that. But at any rate, what we will experience in heaven is so overwhelmingly different. from this life. That as you said, it will answer all the desires of our heart.

And I think it's pretty clear also we will be doing things in heaven. I don't know, because God has plans, you know.

So will we recognize family members and friends in heaven? Oh my goodness, yes. It's so I think that one seems so clear that we will know and be fully known. And one of the things that I loved reading A Past Saint on was this idea that we will be perfectly loved and will love perfectly in return. And to do that, you have to know each other.

And to know each other is to recognize each other. And I think there will just be this full knowing of us coming into what we were always meant to be, perfect. Or, I should say, perfected. And so we don't become some weird ghostly figure. We're the fullness of who God first dreamed us up to be without.

Sin in our way now without a broken world, without broken bodies. And so that full knowledge of each other. In our perfected state, and then fully loving each other is phenomenal. Like, that's incredible to look forward to. I have a question because when I hear you laugh, Colleen, it's like that infectious laugh and Gary, too.

And I wonder if in heaven we're going to recognize, like, I love the voice of Adrian Rogers. And I picture you walking into heaven and hearing his voice, you know, afar and say, I know who that is, or hearing my father's voice, or my mother's voice, or hearing you laugh and Gary laugh. Do you think we'll know the voices as well as the faces of people? I like think so. I mean, it's not super clear in, you know, black and white in Scripture, but I just think so.

The more that I spent time looking at heavenly realities, the more I think you're right. I think there will be a recognition of everything good in us. you know, there's nothing bad left there. There's no brokenness. And so everything good about us.

is on full display. It's so beautiful.

So yes, I can't wait to recognize those things. I'm with you on that.

Now the Bible says something about There's no marriage. Or no getting married in heaven. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that we will not recognize our earthly spouses, right? Right.

Right. And I think that's one of the aspects. I took a little poll one day on social media. I just said, what are some of your fears or misgivings about heaven? And a lot of people say, I don't like that there won't be marriage.

That's a big deal. But I think the more that we understand the realities that are so good that we can realize that marriage was never meant to be the end goal. It's a picture of the ultimate reality. And so it's a foretaste. Anything good in marriage here.

is a foretaste. of the ultimate marriage. That will satisfy all of those longings, all of those desires.

So, yeah, I think if we can put it in context, it's pointing. to the best. It's pointing to something far better. That helps us to start letting go of that, oh my goodness, I don't get to be married to my spouse forever. But I think they will hold a special place.

in our lives 'cause they're p part of the story that got us home, right? Yep, absolutely. You know, Gary, one of the things I love about this book is it's poetic. You know, it's going back to some of the, as you mentioned a little earlier, Colleen, these people who have written about heaven. And one of the people I know that you love is Anne Steele, the poet.

And I'm going to read this, and I want you to respond to her wrestling with grief and this question. She wrote, Why should my spirit cleave to earth, this nest of worms, this vile abode? Why thus forget her nobler birth, nor wish to trace the heavenly road? Were I to mount the flying wind and search the wide creation round, there's nothing here to suit the mind. On earth, no solid joy is found.

Talk about that. I love that she put into words what I've felt and wrestled with You know, it's It's Amazing how much We are deeply attached. to the joys here to the gifts God gives us here. And it makes sense because it shows that we're made for love that lasts, that doesn't get interrupted, that doesn't get stolen or broken or abandoned. But it's not the real thing here.

And so there's this. Tug of war in me. that says, I don't want to leave these good things here. even though I know in my head that The solid joys are still to come. I haven't even tasted The goodness yet, right?

Like these are such tiny little drops in the bucket. But I wrestle with that. I don't want to let go of what's here and now. And I think that's a good thing that God gives us. Those desires, you know, that we don't want to just let go of the things here, but also.

I think sometimes we can make them into idols when we minimize the realities of this solid joys waiting for us. And so if we can hold them. Um with open hands. And with hearts full of the promises of what's to come, then we don't put them in the wrongful place. And so Ann Steele helps put that wrestling into words, like, Lord, teach me how to Navigate these loves that I have here in light of.

the love that waits for me. in your presence. And the fact that these people who are so precious to me here I will get to experience in fullness there. I we haven't even begun. our relationships really in the light of eternity, we're just scratching the surface.

So, I don't know if that answered it really well, but that's been my wrestling. Yeah, yeah, that's exciting. You know, I think sometimes Christians will have feelings of fear. uncertainty and that sort of thing. And sometimes they put themselves down for having uh what to me seemed to be natural uh feelings and emotions.

How would you respond to that? Absolutely. I love that you say that, that it's natural and it's human. And that's You know, I think our fear, how many times do we see in scripture where God says, do not be afraid, do not fear, be strong and courageous. And he says that because he knows our frame.

He knows that we're fearful naturally. And so he's not saying it to shame us. He's saying it because he knows we're weak and he comes to us in that weakness. And he says, don't fear, I'm with you. And so the reason for not fearing is his presence with us.

But he knows that we're given to fear. And so I think if we can take the shame out of it, And just say this is a natural, like you said, it's a natural part of our existence, is fear because We are human. We're not home yet. We're not made whole yet. And there's so much we don't understand.

And a lot of times fear is what we don't understand or what we don't know. It's the unknown before us. And so being able to be okay with fear and saying, I don't get to walk around it. I have to walk through it, but I'm walking through it. with Jesus and that transforms the fear.

Interesting. A deeper relationship with him as I cling to him in the midst of fear. And so there's not shame, there's a shifting of my gaze to look at Jesus and say, you can carry me through this and that's the only way i'm gonna get through this right Yeah. That's the real answer, you know. To acknowledge to God, Lord, you know what I'm feeling today, and you know, you know, I'm fearful, or whatever other things you're feeling, but I thank you.

that you're going to walk with me through this.

So we're human and we're going to have human emotions, but we're going to have the presence of God walking with us in the process. I love that, yes. Colleen, when you think about heaven. Who are you looking forward to meeting in heaven? that you didn't have a chance to meet here.

Mm. Yeah, I can't wait to sit down with a few of the folks who have become special friends, but they've long been dead, but they've modeled for me a faith that has shaped my own. And I would say I can't wait to sit with C.H. Spurgeon. And Amy Carmichael and C.S.

Lewis, and let's do that all at the same table. I don't know that they'd even agree with each other, but like on earth, they wouldn't have agreed probably on some things. But in heaven, ooh, that is a conversation. I would love to sit with them and chat. Yeah.

Those of us who have read people in other generations, you know, and heard about people in other generations and what they've done and so forth, they've had an influence on our lives. And that's one of the values of books, for example, the value of this book, you know, that it can help people in other generations. And so there is somewhat of a relationship with those people. It's not, you know, in reality friendships, but they've influenced us. And so I can see that, that we would like to sit down and just, you know, talk with these people that have influenced us.

Yeah, I love that. Since you've written the book, Are there other things that have come to your mind that maybe you didn't put in the book that you would like to share with us today? Yeah, absolutely. I actually had to leave quite a bit out. One of the things, I actually had a chapter and then just It just wasn't quite ready to print, but it was on the idea of work and rest.

and the fact that we will have Labor that doesn't feel burdensome, and it will be so fulfilling. it'll be what we want to do every day, all day long. Or I don't know how that'll look. I don't know if it'll be all day long 'cause time time will be different. But but there will be a passing of time, some some kind of passing of time.

And And so that ability to Work at something that we love, that brings us so much joy and satisfaction. And then also the idea. That we will finally experience rest as we've never known it here. And we do our best, you know, to. figure out ways to rest here.

There I think there is going to be this idea that I saw in throughout scripture of A final rest that is not boring, that is not inactive. It's that We have no strivings, we have no troubles, we have no pain, there's no more death threatening us, there's no more. separation from people we love. It's a rest. You know, it says Christ is our final Sabbath rest.

It's being with Christ. fully in his presence that will bring us This peace and satisfaction that we don't, we can't even really. conceive of here, I don't think.

So that idea of work and rest, w I I I really grieved not getting that in the book. I think those are two big, big things that I had to leave out. I agree. Ye you know there was work. Before there was the fall.

Adam and Eve had work to do before they sinned.

Now, the work became more difficult, but there was work. And it's hard for me not to believe that there will be work in heaven. There'll be things that God wants us to do, and they'll be wonderful, and we will love doing them. Along with the rest. Yeah, I like that.

Well, we all have a lot to learn, I'm sure, when we are actually there.

Now, you say that you were praying as you were writing this book. You were praying for the readers as you anticipated that they would read this book. Talk a little bit about that. Mm. Yeah, I mean one, I know that Any good work that God gives us to do has to begin and end with prayer.

So that was my heart was this can't do any good. Just me writing a book. That's not going to do anything. And so asking that God would use it, that He would choose to use it to comfort and care for readers and also. Um praying for readers as I have walked with others.

you know, as they've died. It's a really tender place, right? And you've done even much more of that than I have. And you know how that. those places are tender and so just my prayer that This would find some of those people.

This book would find some of those people in those places. And just minister to their hearts. That they wouldn't even remember my name, that it doesn't none of that matters, but that they would just. Feel the presence of Jesus and the ministry of the Spirit as they read. the hope that we have that scripture tells us about.

So those are some of my prayers along the way.

Well, I think that prayer will be answered. I think God will use this book. You know, there there are a lot of questions about heaven and many of those you address in this book, but But the most important question. is How do you get there? Oh, yeah.

So answer that question for us. That is the best question yet. Yes.

I mean, when we recognize that We are broken by our sin. We're born into that sin and can't do a thing about it. until we turn to Jesus. and have him Wipe out that sin and make us his own, make us his children. and say that we are forgiven, that we are free from that bondage to sin, and we belong to him, and nothing can snatch us from his hand.

And that in that relationship with him now, as our father and as our brother, Um God the Father and then God the Son, our brother. That We have a home that he is so excited to bring us home to, that he's prepared a place that he's really excited. to show us. And it's like a father wanting his kids home, right? That he's thrilled to give us this.

You know, just acknowledging that and saying, Jesus, save me from my sin. We only have to do that once, like when we believe. We are made his. and we're sealed by the Holy Spirit. be his forever, and nothing can change that.

and we're free from that sin, that guilt that plagues us. And we come into his love and his precious relationship. And that is the best news of all. And it overshadows all the bad when we know that we are his. And we are cannot be taken from him and a home is promised.

To us. That's that's everything. And we have that peace of heart when we put our trust in him. Jesus himself said while he was on earth, he said to his followers, I'm going to prepare a place for you, and I'm going to come back. And I'm going to take you there.

And he also said. No one comes to the Father except through me. It's very clear. And when you look at the dynamic of the life of Christ, the miracles he performed, which gave evidence of the fact that he was not a mere man, and the way he faced death on the cross for us, man, when you come to understand that and put your faith in what he did for us and allow his spirit to come into us, because Jesus said again to his followers, I'm going back to heaven, but I'm going to send you another company, another encourager, the Holy Spirit, who's going to be with you and guide you until it's time for you to come and be with me.

So, you know, the Christian life is absolutely incredible when you think about it, isn't it? Yes.

All that God has done for us, and He waits with open arms for us to respond to Him. Yes, what He did on that cross and in that tomb, and then ascending back to the Father. It truly blows your mind, doesn't it? Just how he would do that for sinners, like while we were still sinners. He died for us.

That's crazy. That's amazing. Absolutely. Well Colleen, let me thank you for being with us today and for writing this book. You know, I know in your journey that you've had on this journey toward death, The fact that your time has been extended more than you even realized, but maybe part of that was so that you could write this book.

And I I want to thank you for taking the time and energy to do it. And I want to thank you for being with us today.

Well, thank you so much. It's been such a joy to talk with you.

So, thank you. What an encouraging conversation here at the very beginning of the year with Colleen Chow. And if you want to find out about the featured resource, go to buildingrelationships.us. Her book is titled On Our Way Home: Reflections of Heaven in the Face of Death. Just go to buildingrelationships.us.

And next week... What is the love language that matters most? We'll talk about making those you care about really feel loved. Les and Leslie Parrott join us in one week. A big thank you to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice Backing, Building Relationships with Dr.

Gary Chapman as production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening. Love Moody Radio?

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