How To Speak Life To Your Husband | Ann & Dave Wilson

If you want your husband to be more attentive, more involved, more loving... But all you can do is yell at him, don't miss today's Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. The truth is, I seldom cheered for Dave because I thought he doesn't need that. Everybody else is telling him all these great things, not knowing that my words were some of the most powerful words in his life.

When your wife who sees all the good and the bad and the ugly says, I'm with you and I believe in you, oh, that's powerful. God has given wives that power. Welcome to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of The New York Times bestseller, "The 5 Love Languages" . Today, co-hosts of Family Life Today, Dave and Ann Wilson, will give marriage-changing advice for wives.

And the advice is not to yell louder. No, there's a better way. And you're going to hear about it today. If you go to buildingrelationships.us, a featured resource right there is the book written by Anne Wilson, along with her husband Dave, How to Speak Life to Your Husband When All You Want to Do Is Yell Aim. is go to buildingrelationships.us.

And Gary, you have said through the years that when a marriage is in trouble or there's a struggle there, somebody has to be the first to make a change. And often that's the wife who sees that the marriage is not what it could be.

Well, I think that's true, Chris. Not always.

Sometimes it is the husband, but I've experienced that more likely than not it's going to be the wife, you know, who says, I've got to have help. I've got to do something, you know, and she may reach out to a counselor or talk to him about going for counseling and that sort of thing.

So I am really, really excited about our talk today with Dave and Ann because I think this book's going to help a lot of wives and husbands for that matter. I do too. Let's meet, if you haven't met him before, Ann and Dave Wilson, best-selling authors, former co-founders of Kensington Church, former chaplains for the Detroit Lions. They now serve as Family Life Today radio and podcast hosts as Nationally known speakers on marriage as well. Ann and Dave have been married for more than 40 years, and they have three grown sons, a multitude of grandchildren.

And if you go to buildingrelationships.us, you'll see the featured resource, How to Speak Life to Your Husband when all you want to do is yell at him and just go to Building Relationships. Yeah.

Well, Dave and Ann, welcome back to Building Relationships. We are glad to be with you. We always love being with you, Gary.

Well, Ann, talk about that dynamic of a wife realizing that there's more to marriage and wanting things to change. Do you think it's more often the wife than the husband, what Chris was asking me, that that that wants the change or takes initiative? I forgot. What we've seen and experienced, because we've been speaking at conferences for over 35 years, and generally speaking, not always, but generally, yes. And I think part of that is because we as women tend to be more locked into the relationships around the home.

And what I've seen, especially in our relationship, is Dave. He's kind of more aware outside of his career, what's going on, ministry.

Now, be nice. I am being nice. But it seems like I'm the one that is kind of like. Noticing in the things at home that maybe, or even the relationship of what could be better. I mean, Gary, you might remember in our first book, Vertical Marriage, I thought on our 10-year anniversary, our marriage was a 10.

I thought we were great. And I found out on that date, she said, We're not even a one, we're a minus five. No, I said a point five.

So I think women really are much more intense. They know what's going on.

Well, in the opening of your book, you talk about how criticism affected your own marriage.

So tell us what happened. Yeah.

And here's what has happened. Like Dave, every marriage has, as you guys all know, and your listeners probably do too, every marriage has peaks and valleys. And Dave and I have gone through some valleys. But At this phase of our marriage, back when we were probably married between 15 and 20 years, it's just a busy stage of life. Kids in school, you're running all over the place.

And one of the things that happened was I was asked to come to speak to a women's group at our church of young moms. And so I was so busy, I said, Dave, you should come with me. The women will love it. You're the pastor. If you come, they're going to love it.

So we get up there, and Dave starts just going off on things that I had never heard him share in our lives, in our marriage. And he says, Women, I don't even know if you understand what it's like for us as guys. Because usually we have someone, a parent, a mom, or a dad, somebody saying, Good job when we're little. Hey, you're good at that. And then we get older and we find out what we're passionate about, what we're good at, and we have a coach or a teacher saying, Good job, you're great.

And he said, I played college football, so on Saturdays I have people cheering for me in the stands. He said, and then I meet Ann, and basically she says, Of all the men in the world, I choose you, Dave Wilson. You're the man, and she's cheering for me. And Gary, I'm sitting on this stool in the back thinking, huh, I've never heard him share any of this. That's so interesting.

But then he drops this bomb and he his tone shifts and he gets quieter and he says, but then When we've been married a while, it feels like When we walk in the door at the end of the day, All we hear is boo, boo. And I'm like, wait, what just happened? I mean, Gary, when I said that. I look over at her. She's on the stool behind me, and I'm like, I am a dead man.

I have never said this to her. I'm saying it to a couple hundred women. And she doesn't even. And we get in the car and she's like, You think I boo you? I am helping you.

I honestly thought I see all these things about you, and I can see what needs to be fixed and help you to be better. And I honestly, and I truly think most women feel the same. We see these things and we think, oh, I could help you to be better if you change this and you don't do this and you say it like this. And so, I said to him like Dave, I am helping you and he said Do you think it's working? And I said, no, it's not working.

That's why I have to say it so often. And he said, All I know is this, Ann, it feels like you are always trying to tweak me. Fix me. Help me, change me. You compare me to other people, other dads, other men.

He goes, I just feel like you don't really like me. Whew, and that was big. When I got home, I went before God and I said, first of all, I vented to God, which is okay to do. Like, Lord, can you believe that? But then I asked him that question like, God, do you think I boo Dave?

And I felt this confirmation in my spirit of start paying attention to your thoughts and start paying attention to your words. And Gary, the truth is, I seldom cheered for Dave because I thought he doesn't need that. Everybody else is telling him all these great things. not knowing that my words were some of the most powerful words in his life.

Well I have an idea that some couples listening to us right now are identifying with what you're saying.

Now the title of your book uses the phrase, speak life. Mm. What does that look like practically? Hmm.

Well, Proverbs eighteen twenty one says, The tongue has the power of life and death. And then Proverbs 16, 24 says, Gracious words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. And those are pretty graphic. Terms and words. And I really think what happens when we speak words of affirmation.

words of gratitude Words of thankfulness, words of, and this is true for anybody in our homes, our families, words that build up rather than tear down. That brings the soul life, and it feels good, doesn't it? Absolutely. Yeah.

And, you know, Gary, I can add, you know, she, the book's sort of a memoir. It's my memoir. Because it's sort of this journey that it wasn't just Ann, we both went on, and it didn't change in a day or a week or even a month over years. She is my greatest cheerleader. It's amazing.

There isn't a day that goes by in my life that she doesn't speak life and. affirmation and belief in me. And when she first started doing it, I just looked at her like, you don't really think I'm a good husband. You just said I am, but you don't think that. You've never said that before.

So I didn't believe it. But over the years, it's like, oh my goodness, she really thinks I'm a good man. And it motivates me to be even a better man. Because critique and discouragement doesn't motivate Encouragement and affirmation does. And at the same time, we are not saying you don't speak truth because there are times you need to say some hard things.

But if that's all you're saying, he all he hears is boo. But if you're speaking life and affirmation and belief, and then you have to come. In and say, Hey, there's something I need to say that you're not going to like, but I need to say it. He's going to receive that and it's going to make him a better man. But we still need to package it in a way that our spouse can hear it.

Like our words shouldn't be demeaning or name-calling. We still have to do it in a way that honors the other person. Yeah.

So wha why doesn't nagging or yelling at your husband uh achieve a desirable result? Yeah, why doesn't it, Dave? You're the expert, Gary. I mean, it's just. It demotivates.

I mean, and thought, and we talked to so many wives that feel the same thing. It's like, if I Prod him, it's going to make him say, I'm going to, I'm going to step up and do what she asks. That I'll show you. I'll show you. That's what I thought.

Oh, he's going to get motivated like a coach. Oh, I'll show you, coach. And it just didn't work that way. And I found. especially at that time of our marriage that I was spending a lot of more time away from the home than in the home.

And again, I'm not blaming Ann, but I felt like out there, they think I'm good. I come home and she thinks I'm bad, I'll say, see you later. I'm going back to preaching. I'm going back to leading this Bible study. And nobody says no in ministry.

They all want you to. To serve. And so I found that I was running away from home. I'll tell you what, I am running home now. Because she believes in me and she speaks life to me and she thanks me.

And it goes both ways. Women aren't motivated by criticism either. It's just the way we're wired. It's like speak life and that will bring life to the person you're speaking life to. And, Gary, this is so embarrassing.

But I've talked to some friends and other women too. And if you'd have asked me, Ann, why didn't you speak words of life and encourage Dave? What I would have said was because I don't want him to think I'm satisfied with where we are right now. If he hears me say, hey, you're a great man or you're good or whatever, I'll think he'll think I'm satisfied. and then he'll remain where he is or get lazier.

And not try to be better. It's so counterintuitive and so wrong in that thinking. Because think about that. I just feel like there's an enemy, too, that wants us to speak death words. Like, you're not good enough, you're not measuring up.

And this is our best friend, this is our partner. If anybody should be lavished with words of life and affirmation, it should be the people that we're living with under the same roof. And I want to ask you, did you really yell at Dave? Yeah, she did. I'll answer that for her.

She could be a feisty, feisty girl.

Okay, you guys, I didn't think I was yelling. I thought it was like. Motivating or being passionate. I don't think I yelled that much, but you probably heard it as that. But you know what, Gary?

I don't think some women do yell. I think they bottle it up inside. But it's interesting. At the Arbert Institute, they say that researchers studied a person's way of being. which means like the energy or the feel that they give off, that people actually instinctively feel and respond to your way of being toward them more than your behaviors or your words.

She definitely had a way of being. You know, a roll of the eyes, you know, a dismissal. And I do the same thing, we've all done it. But it's just as powerful as a word, just a look. You know, like I'm disappointed in you again.

And I thought I was being very sophisticated and kind of. My motive, I call it motivation. He would call it booing. I would say things like, wow, you know, I just talked to Paula today, and you know, that Steve is reading the Bible. to his kids every single night.

That always works when you compare your husband to another husband. That really motivates me. And you know what Dave said?

Well, Mary, maybe you should just have married Steve. Too bad I'm not as great as him. Oh Well, Ann, a big part of the book is for wives to recognize negative communication patterns and then replace criticism with encouragement. Yeah.

Can you give us an example of that from your own marriage? Yeah.

I felt like When I started paying attention to my thoughts about Dave, And it really does start there. It starts, and Romans 12:2 tells us that. It says, do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And so I was asking God, like, Lord, my thoughts about Dave are super negative. Like, I can remember folding the laundry.

And we're all learning so much now about brain science, and we know that. We create neurological pathways, and the pathway that I had created about Dave. It's the same old conversation. I get in a rut and I start complaining about him in my mind. He's not home.

He's never home. Everything is more important to me. He's on his device. He gives more energy outside the home than inside the home. He's not leading spiritually.

I mean, the list just kept going on. And I would get in that spiritual rut of thinking those negative things. One time I was folding clothes, and I felt God impress me of saying, What would happen if you prayed for him as much as you complained about him? And so I think and and Paul tells us take every thought captive. And so I started trying to do that.

Like, and I started with this very simple thing. I thought, okay, I'm going to start just by thanking Dave. Seeing the things he is right, and this became my prayer. Jesus, show me the greatness in Dave. Yeah, I can tell you one night I came home late after preaching and being on the sideline with the lions, so a long weekend.

And I just said to her as I was scrolling into bed, you know, I've been getting a lot of critiques lately. About my sermons. And I really. Was just ready to go back to sleep. And I'll never forget how she responded.

It was so different than what I had previously. Expected.

Well that's because I'm a verbal processor, so if I think it, I generally would say it. But I also felt like God gave me some other instructions. I felt like He was saying, and ask me a few questions before you say anything. First of all, ask this question. And I think this is helpful, maybe, for your listeners, too.

Should I say this? And so it's this quick prayer, Lord, shall I say it? And then the next prayer, and then I felt like I should say, and Lord, here's my next prayer. Is now the time and how should I say it, if anything. And so when Dave said, I feel like I'd be getting these critiques.

Here was my prayer. Lord, should I say what I thought? Which was, here was my thought. If you would spend more time studying the scriptures, I think your sermons would be way better.

So I say, God, should I say that? No And then I said, should I say anything right now? and this thought popped into my mind, and so this is what I said I said, Wow, Dave, I can't imagine what it's like to be you. You have thousands of people dependent on your walk with God. That must be an incredibly weighty thing for you to carry every single day.

And then there is silence, and then he pulls me over to himself, and he whispers in my ear, You are my life. Ugh, and that's that's the power of one, you're bringing God into it. Saying a quick prayer, and it takes a second, a quick prayer. And yet, God can bring us together instead of saying, Well, if you just spent more time studying the scriptures, that would have been terrible. I also think it just displays the power that God has given women and given wives.

You know, those words from a wife to her man. They're powerful.

Somebody else says that to me. I smile and say thank you, but when your wife, who sees all the The good and the bad and the ugly says I'm with you and I believe in you. Oh, that's powerful. God has given wives that power. I gotta ask you then, Dave, what Because that's a hallmark moment.

It's like, I can see that. I can see that in a movie somewhere and in a romance novel. You are my life. But what was it that Allowed you to get to that place of the heart where you're struggling with the negative feedback that you've gotten. She says that.

And that was speaking life to you. How did you reciprocate then and move that back to her?

Well, you know, it's interesting, in that moment, I didn't think, hey, I'm gonna. Grab her and say, you are my life. You know, I just did because her words. And really, I think the fact that she's my partner, she. She sees behind the curtain.

She gets me what I carry, and others don't. And so I think for husbands, in some ways, For us to help our wives is, we need to be vulnerable with our struggles, with our weakness, with our fears. I think sometimes we put up this mask of, I'm, you know, I'm a man and I've got this figured out and I got it all together. And we don't, and we're scared. And we're, you know, in some ways, we're little boys that still are saying, hey, do you see me?

Am I doing a good job? And so when we let down that guard to our wives and say, you know, here's something I'm struggling with, or here's a fear I have. It lets them in like, oh my goodness, he needs me. I need her. And so I think for men, put down that facade or that shield.

And be vulnerable and honest with your wife, and she will be drawn to you, not pushed away by you. She'll be like, he needs me. And we try to act like we don't need anybody. And we need Jesus, first of all. But he also created us in a way we need community.

We need other people. First of all, our spouse and then others. I need men in my life. She needs women in her life. We need couples in our life.

And I think many men don't tell their wives what they're feeling in terms of, like, Dave had never told me that he feels like I boo him. But had he come to me and said, Ann, I feel like I'm failing you. It feels like you're not happy and it makes me want to pull away because I feel like I'm continually failing and letting you down. I think if you would have said that, and we could have had a deeper. Like and if he said it feels like you're, I'm feeling discouraged by your words.

And I don't know what to do about that. And part of me thinks, you know, looking back, I was afraid to do that with her because it was so intimate. But to do it on a stage with a couple hundred women, that was easy. And I shouldn't have done it that way. But that's how it came out.

And it's because I think I was afraid. It's easier to do that on a stage than it is in your kitchen. Yeah.

Yep. Yep. Well, you know, Ann, maybe you've answered this question, but how do you make that shift internally? You know, if a wife has that pattern, is it a process to see that you're feeling something negative and you want to yell or criticize and you somehow then turn and go a different direction? Yeah.

The first thing I had to do is, and I feel like this is a daily thing, where I have to be in full submission and surrender to Jesus. I have to be in his word because that transforms me. It transforms my mind and who he is, who God is, because he is the one that is the ultimate one that fills me up. Not Dave. Because as soon as I take my eyes off of Jesus, I want Dave to fill me up and make me happy.

And that's not his job. And it's not his job to meet all of my needs. And I've tried to change him, Gary, and I can't. But I know that that's Jesus's job. And so, what happened is.

That prayer that I started praying, God show me the greatness in Dave. Can I tell you that God will answer that prayer? And so here's an example. Before I was seeing all the negative, because I had created that negative neurological pathway. And now I'm asking God to renew my mind, change my mind, change my eyes.

Let me see the greatness.

So, this one night he goes in, and one of our big complaints was: I had an expectation of what it should look like for him to lead spiritually, our sons. And I'd complain about that all the time.

So, and he doesn't, he didn't even grow up with a dad in the house. He didn't even, or in the church. He didn't even know what that looked like.

So I pray that prayer, show me the greatness of what Dave's doing right. He goes in and prays with the boys one night. and I'm watching them, and he comes out of the room. I said, Man, I'm so jealous of the power that you carry. And he said, What do you mean?

I said you go in there, and these boys are clinging to every word you say. I go in there and there's bedlam and chaos going on. But with those three boys they're clinging to you. You have this power I don't think you even understand. And it's so funny because the next night, guess where he was again?

I was running up the stairs. You know, and she didn't. Say that to manipulate me to get me up there, but I realized, oh my goodness, I'm pretty good at this. I have a different way to lead spiritually than she sort of thought it would look like, but she's starting to realize, oh, that's how he leads, and it works. And so it motivated me as a man, rather the criticism, I withdrew.

I didn't even go in the room. I was like, yeah, I'm not very good at this. I'm not doing it the way she wants. I'll watch ESPN, you know. But when she said that, I could tell you where I was standing in the hallway when she said those words.

I'm like, wow, that transforms a man. And, Gary, you can probably tell what Dave's love language is: words of affirmation. Yeah.

Yes.

Well, t talk to the wife who who has said today, maybe. I just can't believe he did that. Everything in her wants to scream. And here you're saying that that moment can actually help the two of you connect. Yeah.

Talk to her.

Well I felt like that probably 3,032 times a day. That same feeling. And I think as wives, We have to gauge of when we should say things and when we should wait, or if we shouldn't even say anything. And I think that's an issue. I remember thinking, I'm so bugged by this.

He's driving me crazy. Or I've asked him to do this 930 times. Yeah.

I think our walk with God, this sounds such like a pad answer. But I have to be in God's word, as I said before, and that begins to change my eyes. And so my prayer was: Lord, if I should say anything to Dave, bring it up again tomorrow. But when I react, and that's what I would say, if he's done doing something and you just yell at him or say something, or you have a way of being about him that he can feel. Try not to react in the moment because if you give yourself a little time, you say a quick little prayer of Lord, give me wisdom, which James says he will give generously.

Say a prayer, Lord, give me wisdom. Should I say anything? Maybe you go and talk to God about it. Maybe you have a really close girlfriend who loves Jesus and you're like, Can you pray with me about this? I need to know if I should say it, how I should say it.

Because you know this, Gary, you've heard it with the John Gottman Institute, that it takes five positives to negate one negative. And so I think we just have to fill each other's tanks up with positive.

So that if we're going to make a depot a withdrawal of a negative, we still wrap it in love and we can say it, but think through how should I say this and how can he hear it in a way that he really does get what I'm communicating. This is the Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman podcast. Ann Wilson has written our featured resource today along with her husband Dave. It's titled How to Speak Life to Your Husband When All You Want to Do Is Yell At Him.

Find out more at Building Relationships. Find out. Find out more at 5lovelanguages.com. Plus, you can take a free assessment of your love language there and see when Gary is coming to your area for a seminar. Just go to fivelovelanguages.com.

And I think what we are sharing and Dave is sharing is going to help a lot of our listeners today. I'll talk about the unspoken feelings and the deeper issues that are often behind and under the surface of conflicts that couples have. Can a couple deal with those kind of things without going to a counselor or a pastor to guide them? I think a counselor can really be helpful. They've helped us in the past.

Oh, definitely. Definitely. But we've also learned now, and we've, I think it's really important to know each other's stories. to know the wounds and the hurts that have happened growing up. And Dave and I both went to a counselor and I've had some real wounds.

that were glaring that I had never really dealt with. And mine were even bigger. Yeah.

And we didn't know that those things were bleeding into our day-to-day relationship. And so I think it's really important to share your story. Because when you share your entire story, the good and the bad, with your spouse, What I realized was one, I'm a perfectionist.

So I want my marriage and I want Dave to be perfect. Yep. And also, I had some wounds in the past that I felt like I wasn't seen. By my parents, they didn't know what was going on. I have sexual abuse that wasn't dealt with.

And And so I put so many things on Dave thinking that he could heal some of those wounds. And If you have an area in your marriage, a cycle that keeps coming back up of the same fight. Ours was always the Do you see me? Why aren't you home? Why aren't I a priority?

And those were the things that I felt growing up. And so they just were bleeding into you know behind the curtain in my life is you know i was raised by two alcoholic parents adultery affairs they got divorced when i was seven And I didn't realize it, but I brought into our marriage this drive. To show my dad or anybody, I can be good, I can be successful. And so then I, there I am. I'm driving to start a church, not just a church, it's got to be a mega church.

And I'm not just a chaplain, I'm chaplain of the losingest team in the NFL.

So I got to be with the Lions. But I mean, we're laughing, but I really was driven. Outside the home to be successful and sort of leaving Anne. To take care of the home on her own, not even realizing she has this desire to be seen. And I'm not seeing her.

So that, I mean, that was a setup for a marriage that's going to crumble. Jesus saved our marriage. And again, sitting down with a Christian counselor who can help you identify some of the luggage that you bring in your marriage. You got to process that. If you don't process it in a...

in a healing way, it can destroy your marriage. And so I think it's really important. To have community and a counselor and a good church, so you can navigate that with others. Yeah.

So powerful, I think, when you have another voice that's listening and helping you share, you know, those things and identify them. You're right. Yeah.

So you talk about the power of thought. and how what you think shapes your behavior towards your spouse. Are there practical exercises for couples to get out of the negative patterns? Yeah, I think this is interesting. There's a Dr.

Helen Fisher who works with brain scans to study. happily married couples.

So she studied couples that had been married more than twenty years, and both the husband and the wife said they were madly in love. And what she did was she studied three areas of the brain, and one area is responsible for a phenomenon called positive illusion. Focusing on what you like about your spouse. I thought this was fascinating because there's also a negative illusion. that all you see is the negative, and I talked about that a little bit.

But I think that we can train our brains. And so when Paul says to take every thought captive, if I would get in my cycle, Of starting to meditate on Dave's negatives. I would say, Jesus, I'm not going to go there. And it felt like denial: like, no, I should just think about no. create a new pathway, and you pray for your spouse.

You look at things different, you don't entertain that constant negative thought pattern. And when I remember hearing about this positive illusion, and I thought, well, these are people. That are like just Ridiculous, they're not seeing the truth of the relationship because I would say. Dave sees me as being better than I am. I do.

And I would say, I was in the past seeing Dave worse than what he was. And so The that way of thinking changes us. And so I thought, what am I supposed to deny these negative feelings? No, you're going to talk to God about it, but you're going to also begin training your mind to see the good things and thinking about it's the scripture. Think about what is good and lovely.

And by the way, we haven't said this the whole interview yet. We are definitely not saying. If you're living with an abusive man. Who's who's abusing you physically or verbally or a bad man? We are not saying, hey, just speak life.

Right. You know, positive illusion. It's like, no, no, no, no. You need to get safe. You need to take some steps and get.

So, people around you do. To help save this marriage. But so this is for a good-willed man who's just like me, clueless, just missing it. You know, you can literally change your marriage by what we're talking about. But if you're in trouble, you need to get help.

And, Gary. I've around that time, I started reading going through the one-year Bible. I'm on your number 18 now. Of reading the whole Bible through in a year. And that has probably changed me more than anything else that I've ever done because now I'm seeing God properly for who He is, and I can see others the way God sees them.

And it helps me. And I remember even memorizing Ephesians 4:29. Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth. But only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

So, it's kind of those practices and habits that become a lifestyle. Yeah.

I want to encourage the ladies to memorize that verse, and I want to encourage the men to memorize that verse. It was Ephesians chapter 4, if you're listening. Ephesians chapter 4, verse 29. We all need to be hearing that every single day. And if we memorize it, that will be powerful.

Wow. What what does constant criticism do to a man? Or to a woman for that matter, you know, if he's given her constant criticism. But what does it do? I would say from a man's perspective, and like you said, I think it goes both ways.

demoralizes. It demotivates. It tears down. And again, there are times we need criticism or the truth spoken in love, Ephesians 4, 15. But man, when that's all you're hearing, I think you find that you pull away.

You don't pull toward that person. you pull away. I mean, some people get motivated and they're a better athlete when they get Critiqued. And I've been around coaches in the NFL for 30-some years. I was coached as an athlete.

Criticism just isn't the best way. There are things you need to hear that are true, that are hard to hear. But when you are affirming and positive and encouraging. I'm telling you, you know, one way to say this: when you say your man is a good man, it's like you put a crown on him and he becomes a king. You know, it's like when Ann started saying, You're a good husband, and I first, again, I said earlier.

At first, I was like, I am not. You don't think I, you never thought that. What are you doing? Are you just lying now? And then she kept saying it, you know, regularly and in different ways and specifics.

And she'd call out and say, man, what you just did with the boys there, that was great. Way to go. All I know is she was saying I was better than I thought I was, and it motivated me to be as good as she thought I. Said I was.

So I'm just telling wives: when you do that, your man jumps higher, he runs faster. I don't know how to explain it. And I'm sure it goes the other way as husbands praise and affirm their women.

Well, my best friend, Michelle, she and her husband were going through kind of a valley. And she was complaining about him a lot. And we would talk and walk and we'd pray. And she was just in this negative. Thought pattern and she would say negative things.

And so we started like encouraging one another. And I said, Michelle, I'm going to pray for you. And she wasn't great with her words. But she was good at texting him. Or writing something down.

And then she decided, she said, okay, I'm going to pray that prayer, show me the greatness of Dave. And so she's Rob, not me. Yeah, not of you.

Sorry. Show me the greatness of Rob. And so she bought a journal, a cool journal. And so she started praying that prayer. And so she started just putting little.

Just jotting little notes like, hey, Rob. Thanks for putting up the Christmas lights up outside. It's cold in Michigan, and every year you do it. I know you hate doing it, but you do it because you love us. Thank you.

and she had been complaining about him not making it to the girls' soccer games. Instead of complaining, she said, Rob, thank you for making it to the end of the game. When you walked in the stadium, I saw our daughter see you walk in, and her whole countenance changed, and it lifted her spirit. That's what your presence does to all of us. And so she would write just little things like that a few times a week, and then on his birthday she gave it to him.

He unwrapped it, and he sat in the chair. He read the whole thing in one sitting. And he cried the entire time. And this is Dave's best friend. And we said, Rob, why did you cry?

And he said, because as a man, I feel like I'm always failing. I feel like I'm failing as a father and as a dad. I feel like I'm not good enough. And by her words, I am so motivated to be that man, to be better than what I am right now. Like I I want to do anything in the world for Michelle and the girls because of her words brought me such life.

And that's exactly what we're talking about. Those are words of life. They help our spouse to become the person God created them to be. Dave, let's talk about to-do list. which many wives make for their husbands.

How do most men see those lists? How do they take those lists that the wife gives them?

Well, I wish I could say we love the honeydew list. I love the list. Ian has made those lists. I think she has one for me right now when we get done with this interview. It's like, we got stuff.

I mean, in some ways, I hate them. And in other ways, I know that it really makes her feel loved and seen and appreciated and a priority. Even though I hate them, I think I need to do them. And the thing I hate is when she asked me to do something, and I think it means today. Or in the next five hours.

And she meant in the next five minutes. And she comes walking back in. What are you doing watching the ESPN? I'm like, oh, you wanted that done right now? And then I'll roll my eyes and go do it myself.

That's that way of being. And so I would say to the guys, man, if you can check off one or two. Every day, years ago. Every day. How about once a like a week?

Okay.

Okay.

I'm going back to that. Once a week. That's even better.

Well, Gary, what do you think of the honeydew list?

Well, I think it can be helpful because at least it tells the husband what would be meaningful to her. You know.

So in that sense it's good. But I also understand how a man can get overwhelmed when he just gets list after list after list and he's got so many other things to do that he feels frustrated, you know.

So there's there's pros and cons to that. Yeah.

Ann's love language is acts of service, so I guess I gotta get off the couch and do it. Gary, I will say this. I thought this was interesting. We talked to, we were on a podcast yesterday. Where this man said, you know, my wife gave me this list, and I came in.

He said, I worked for hours. I came in, it was the hot Texas sun, pure sweat, feeling really good about what I had accomplished. And my wife said, But you didn't do this one thing on the list? And he said, it was like she popped all the air out of my being because she didn't notice the things I did right. She just pointed out what I didn't do.

And so I think with our lists, we have to be really careful with that, of how we encourage them. And maybe ask how How can I help you with the list? Maybe that would be a good question.

Now respect respect is crucial to marriages.

So how do couples rebuild respect after there's been a lot of negative, you know, things spoken to each other. I mean, I would say on one side, if you are disrespecting your husband or your wife because of something they've done. Where they betrayed your vows or broken a promise, then it's on the spouse who. Sinned or broke that promise to earn back. Is that trust or respect?

Trust and respect. It's very closely the same thing, but yeah, it's on me. If I've broken the trust, I've got, you know, trust is built over decades and it's gone in a second. And it's going to take You know, days, months, years to rebuild.

So you build that back. And in some ways, you give respect and love unconditionally, but it's also. you know i would say to the husbands be respectable So that she gives it in one sense. And I'd also say to us, well, we give it as well, because God gives us what we don't deserve.

So we bless, but we actually, you wanna live in a way that is respectable or trustable. And you do that, Dave. One of the things, and that word today feels rebellious. It feels like, We're in a culture and a time where Respect feels like it should be earned. I'm not going to give it to you unless you earn it.

But really, God does continue to love us, pursue us, respect us, and lift us up in the midst of our sin. And so when I was on that journey with, I felt like I had not been respecting Dave in a good way, especially through my words. And so, when I started out with a simple thank you, I'm going to start just thanking him because I don't want to fake it. I'm not going to say, oh, you're blah, blah, blah.

So, I can start with just saying thank you. And, Gary, it's so embarrassing. When I started thinking, why don't I want to thank him? It was because here's what I thought: this is so wrong. I thought, well, who thanks me?

I do everything around here, and nobody notices or thanks me. You hear the pride and arrogance in that? And so I remember I was really starting to try to work on this. And so I said to Dave, this is before we were eating, the boys were at the table. Before we prayed, I said, Hey guys, before we pray and eat, I just want to say this, Dave.

Thank you for working so hard. You work super hard. You are so good at what you do, and you're providing really. for our family. through your tenacity of working hard and providing.

Thank you for that. Which To Dave, it felt like respect. Oh, I mean, I knew she was looking at Gary's book and doing what it said there. You know, it was on the kitchen hutch right behind her, but it didn't matter. I was like.

My chest started puffing up. I'm like, I am the man, aren't I? Of course, I didn't say that, but I was shocked at how good it made me feel. And I'm just telling, you know, wives, hear that. That's what happens inside your man.

When you do this, and that's why I wrote in Ann's book, it's really her book. And at the end of each chapter, I said, Hey, ladies. Here's a man's or a husband's perspective that, you know, will might maybe help. You know, understand your husband's perspective.

Well, and I've had women come up to me to say, Ann, you don't understand who I'm married to. He's not abusive, but there's nothing to cheer about. I see nothing, which is super sad, but it's the reality of their situation. And what I say to them is, I say, this man that you're married to, first of all, you married him because you probably saw something. in him that You liked.

And so go back to those things. And I did and I said this. He's made in the image of God. And God is cheering for every single one of us every single day. There's something in Him, because He's made in the image of God that you can cheer for, you can see.

And so, Start looking for those little things. You don't have to fake it. You're not saying it to manipulate them, but just ask God. Our son calls it, who's a preacher, God goggles. Put on your God goggles so you can see your spouse the way God sees them.

And then you'll begin to say the things to them that God says to them. But let me say this: if you are not locked in with Jesus and surrender, being filled with the Spirit and everything, it's not going to happen. You'll do it for about three days and give up. Because this is a work of God's Spirit in us that's transforming us. Yeah.

You've mentioned this before, but what is the role of prayer in a marriage?

Well, you've probably seen this stat, Gary, and you've probably talked about it on your program. But the divorce rate in our culture is one out of every two. But the divorce rate with couples who pray together. on a regular basis. Is one in every 1052.

No, 1,152. Oh, that's even better. Yeah, I mean it's staggering to understand that. And as you know, when you're praying alone, that's great. It's awesome.

But then, when you go, we call it go vertical with Jesus, with God together with your spouse, and it doesn't even have to be every day, but on a regular basis. There's something that happens that's oneness together. Again, do it alone, but man, when you bring your spouse in together, we've. many times spent years on our knees at the foot of our bed before we crawled in bed. At night.

In fact, we need to get back into doing that. But it's hard to pray when you're mad at each other. Oh, I do not want to pray at all. And sometimes if Dave would fall asleep, I would think, well, he's falling asleep. It's his job to pray.

You know, I would think something like that. And can I just say, Satan wins in those situations because if one person prays, maybe you have a spouse that won't pray. It's okay. Even if you say, Jesus, thank you for today. We need your help.

That could be your prayer every night. Or, Lord, thank you for my spouse. Even though they're driving you crazy. Thank you for my spouse. Help us.

Amen. It could be that quick. And that is so powerful. And it changes our marriages, our legacies in a miraculous way. Yeah.

And talk to the wife who's listening who says, I'm on board. I want to relate better with my husband. What advice would you give her?

Well, first of all, if you're saying that, I'm so excited for you. This is a journey that for me has taken years. And I get like teary thinking about where I would be had I not gone on this journey. And I think Dave would have just, we would have just been so isolated because he would have continued to push. To move away and push away from me, we'd be in the same house, but we'd be very separate.

in our intimacy with our relationship. And so Way to go. And I would say, cling to Jesus. As Dave said already, like, get into church, find some women. I want to put this, I'm, we're trying to create this.

Book into a small group. Even if you hear this and you think, I want to do this, get a friend, grab a friend, and say, Do you want to read this with me together? And let's commit to being in the word. It could be that you're on a Bible app, and if you have little kids, listen to the scriptures every day. Just put it on the car, put it somewhere that you can hear, even if it's a few verses a day.

and then go through this with somebody and ask God to change you. Because it's easy to see, as the as Matthew in the Bible says, the splinter in our spouse's eye, when we might have a log in our own eye.

So ask God like God. Change me. I lay down my life, pride, my arrogance, and Lord, I'm gonna pick up a mirror. And I want to change the things that you want to change in me and help me to learn to speak life to my husband and also to my kids. You know, and I would just add: I think if this happens, and I'm not talking just about wives speaking life to their husbands, but husbands speaking life to their wives as well.

I think. It could create almost a revival sense of the Christian family in the home and a legacy. Your home would, the atmosphere will change, and your neighbors will be drawn to your backyard, to your family room. Because they sense something positive, something alive. They don't even know it's Jesus.

It's the gospel. But it'll point them to Jesus because there's life. I think men come alive in the church when they walk in the church. Coming out of a marriage in their home where they feel believed in and seen and affirmed. They walk into church like, Okay, what do you need me to do?

I'm a powerful man. How do I know that? My wife just told me that all week. You know, there's something so powerful that happens in the soul of a man when he comes alive because he has a woman beside him that believes in him. And everything I'm saying goes the other way too.

When a wife feels seen and believed by her man, she becomes the woman God created her to be. We have a powerful role in each other's lives that we can use to build up. Or tear down. And I'm just saying, God has given us this influence and this power, especially you wives. Man, He wants to do something powerful in and through you.

Well, Dave and Ann, I want to thank you for being with us today, and thank you for writing this book. I mean, you know, you've gone through it, you've lived it, now you're writing it in the effort to help other people. I think this book's going to help. Anyone who will pick it up and read it. And I would encourage pastors and others to let their congregations know about this book because I think it's dealing with really, really crucial issues in a marriage.

So again, thanks for all that you're doing. And God bless you. Thank you, Gary. You're one of our great heroes. Yeah, we love you and appreciate you, and thank you.

You too, Chris. What an encouraging conversation. Dave and Ann Wilson, thank you. And don't miss the featured resource. At buildingrelationships.us, how to speak life to your husband.

when all you want to do is yell at it. Find out more at buildingrelationships.us. And next week. What can we learn from a dysfunctional family in the Bible? Lessons from the life of Joseph are coming up in one week.

Before we go, let me thank our production team Steve Wick and Janice Backing. Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening. I'm going to use the same method for the first time.