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That's warbyparker.com. This is what Donald Trump does in life, right? And you see him exploring the threshold of ignoring a court order. The issue that's at stake here is the idea that perhaps this administration actually ignored a judicial order.
That is deeply disturbing. We live in a society of rule of law. Supreme Court has its power. Judges have their power. And it should frighten every American, whether you're conservative or progressive, that you are the president who does not respect our Constitution and wants more and more power for himself. I think he's shown almost too much respect for the so-called law and order because these judges are being activists. But Bernie Sanders, his unmistakable voice in the same tenor, always outraged, always ridiculous. Donald Trump has got to be stopped and Jim Himes, desperate to matter over in Connecticut.
What are we talking about? Judge fair, who's cracking down on President Trump everywhere you can, whether it's keeping transgenders out of the military, USAID being brought down to size or folded in to the State Department. Now we have the EPA being denied the ability to get rid of $6 billion worth of green fraudulent contracts. And now the latest, stopping the worst of the worst, TDA and MS-13 from going to El Salvador. A judge decided to tell them to turn the plane around. They said, Toph, we're not going to do that.
Now two days of questions got to be answered by noon over the next two days. I'm personally insulted that a district judge thinks he can hold the State Department and a presidency hostage. But Brett Tolman is the legal expert.
He's the executive director for Right on Crime, former U.S. attorney himself for the District of Utah, Brett Tolman. Brett, your thought about Donald Trump and his new war with judges. Yeah, Brian, this is this is an era that I don't think any of us really, really hoped would would would come to the country. I think this is one in which we see judges were waiting in the wings to actually tear apart the executive branch and the executive authority that the president has. And look, these are all district court judges that have jurisdiction, limited jurisdiction in that in their district. And they're issuing these nationwide injunctions. That's the stuff that's got to stop. The Supreme Court obviously has to has to step up and make the right decisions. But I don't I don't blame the president at all for for pursuing the the the full extent of the executive power that he has. Right now, we have judges stepping in the places in the place of our of our cabinet in charge of the Homeland Security, in charge of the State Department, in charge of the Justice Department. Where does it stop if we don't stop them now?
So how unique is this? Why haven't other courts stopped other presidents? I mean, the amount of injunctions that Trump is dealing with now almost is equal to what we've dealt with since the 1960s.
I mean, in total. So like why the judges suddenly realizing that they have this power or are they asserting power they shouldn't have? I think it's a if we look at history, you saw resentment building and building quite quite dramatically since Merrick Garland and and pulling down his nomination to be on the Supreme Court. I think you saw an influx of of appointments of district court.
So the lowest level, but still a federal district court judge. And I think they were waiting and anticipating that this was our last line of defense. If if if for some odd reason, President Trump gets elected, which they did not believe, and they used everything from lawfare to an assassination attempt and he's in.
So now this is their last line of defense. Well, how effective is is people have pointed out that there's no district courts in the Constitution. So now you've got this district court judge continuing to harangue the Justice Department about the next shipment of illegal aliens, criminal legal aliens out of the country. And I'm just thinking from the pedestrian point of view, if the judge is saying, you know, of course, we could lock up illegal alien criminals and of course, we could send them back to their own countries.
But he wants to know who they are. But do they get due process? Well, it's interesting you bring that up because Paul Cassell is the judge in Utah who wrote the the opinion on what rights do illegals have and they do not have the same constitutional rights that we do. They have limited due process rights. That's good law still.
And it stands to this day. And I guess we have to we have to let them pursue this to some degree until the Supreme Court is willing to step up. But I think, look, Biden didn't didn't adhere to the rule of law.
Biden ignored rulings. He used his executive, you know, his executive power to pursue it even after the Supreme Court issued rulings. That's different than what's happening here.
What's happening here are exclusively executive branch action being taken by the executive branch with a federal judge now saying, no, you can't do that. You can't do that. You can't do that. You can't do that.
You can't do that. So when you say limited, that's where the interpretation comes in. Right. Limited, you know, constitutional rights or due process. That's where each judge gets to put in their own opinion.
Am I correct? We have afforded the same fourth, fifth and Sixth Amendment rights that we have. The question becomes what is the what what do we allow police to do? So the limitation is is more on police than it is in protecting an individual who does not have constitutional rights. So that becomes the analysis is what what did the police do? Did they have reasonable suspicion? Did they have probable cause to make these these arrests?
And here, when an individual is is arrested for being an illegal and they have a prior conviction, that's a case in which this country all throughout history, except under Biden, has uniformly sent them back to their countries after they've they've served any prison time that's that's applicable. This episode is brought to you by lifelock. It's tax season and we're all a bit tired of numbers. But here's one you need to hear. Sixteen point five billion dollars. That's how much the IRS flagged for possible identity fraud last year. Now, here's a good number. One hundred million.
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Save up to 40 percent your first year at lifelock dot com slash podcast. Terms apply. So what happens now, Brett? I know a lot of this is on, you know, unplowed ground.
I get it. So now this judge is asking, trying to still trying to unwind what happened over the weekend. What time did the plane take off? What needed to leave the U.S. airspace? When did it land on the foreign country?
They're going to lose use flight aware to decide if this was actually true or not. How many people were aboard solely on the basis of the proclamation ordered by the judge? So the two hundred sixty one, one hundred plus are the ones that the judge is the judge really wants to focus on.
Six evidently that might not have been part of TDA. So we're going to try to put up another group in chains and on a plane and send them back to El Salvador. What will ultimately be the decision made by what judge? And when does this an Obama judge, by the way, whose wife is a left wing activist, can't control your wife, but you kind of indication of where you go.
So left wing activist was crying after Hillary Clinton lost famously. So this. So where do you go if you are the Trump team? So you you push the envelope because you have the authority to do it. You send back, you continue to send the planes if he is.
And OK, yeah, you do. You send that you make him you make him try to hold you in contempt and then you appeal it. If they don't want to go that route and they want to immediately appeal an injunction that they believe is preventing them from doing that. But remember, Brian, under the law that they are utilizing in order to immediately send these folks back. This is a law that is not justiciable, meaning the courts cannot review the president's power under it. It is blanket power, not reviewable, given to the president.
So do you do you, you know, send a message that you're willing to be, you know, cornered by a judge who's outside his authority? I think that's the stuff they're balancing right now, but they're more concerned about the safety of this country and they have the authority to do it. So I expect they'll send the planes. They'll continue to send the planes and then they'll appeal any ruling for this judge issues.
So here's an example. And most of these senators and congressmen, most of them are lawyers. So listen to Chris Chris, their warning. And of course, it's all political that Trump can't defy a court order.
The court tells you do something. Cut six. I'm not reassured at all. Look, President Trump says one thing and does the other from one week to the next. He said the very first thing he was going to do as president.
I'm sorry. Cut seven. Let's just cut seven. The issue is whether or not federal court orders will be followed by President Trump and whether that's on firing folks who work at the Veterans Administration or eliminating USAID or deporting people. That's less the issue than whether or not this long standing core pillar of the United States and our system will be respected by the Trump administration.
Of course, they're picking one of the least sympathetic cases possible to push the very limits of their power. But we in the Senate are clear about what it is they're doing. And I think in the courts and what you just heard from Chief Justice Roberts makes it clear that they, too, are clear about what he's doing. What he's doing is he's trying to do executive orders to take action. But Justice Roberts was commenting on something different. He was saying you can't go impeach a judge because you don't like his decision. That's different from what all these other decisions that Chris Coons ran through.
Your thoughts on this, on the posturing. Well, Brian, let's say that a judge, a district court judge issued an injunction preventing the president of the United States from flying on Air Force One. They can do it.
He could put that out. Does the president follow it? Well, the president get on Air Force One. Exactly. This this is what the judges are doing. This is not a matter of of issuing a ruling that should be reviewed and that the Justice Department is, you know, not sure whether they have the authority or not to proceed. No, this is not. This is an injunction against the president of the United States exercising his exclusive authority under the executive branch. So if you work for Trump right now, you would say, Mr. President, do it. I will answer these questions.
We'll we'll deal with the judge. You just keep loading up those planes. You just keep loading them up. The American people want this. These are clearly individuals who are not it's not just unsympathetic. These are criminals that have raped and killed people in the United States by crossing our borders illegally. That's an invasion.
There's no question it's an invasion. He has extreme powers under such circumstances. And the district court judges are going to have to remember that they have to have jurisdiction and they have to have the law and the facts in order in front of them in order to issue a ruling. And they don't have it in this instance.
It's a totally different circumstance. So listen to this. The judge has barred Trump's EPA, Lee Zeldin, director, from taking back 20 billion in climate grants. The ruling orders EPA and climate groups to return to court to argue about the fate of the money. So this is guess who? U.S. District Court Judge Tonya Chutkin, who is desperate to prosecute Donald Trump on one of those Jack Smith cases, so desperate she was going to put off a vacation last year in order to do it. Now she has a chance to stop him from getting rid of these green programs.
So here's the scenario. Joe Biden put forth these programs. In comes a new administration. I don't want these programs. I don't want wind and solar.
I want natural gas and and I want to do more drilling offshore oil drilling. Who's right? We didn't hear a peep from judges when Biden shut down drilling, when he shut down pipelines, when he shut down the coal industry. We didn't hear anything from judges reversing that policy, knowing that that's better for the country and for our energy demands.
We didn't hear anything. Now we're hearing from them because they're upset that Donald Trump is trying to restore balance to this country and get the idiocy of bad policy making that came as a result of a geriatric president who didn't have the mental capability to understand what the country needed and was guided by those handlers around him. That's what's happening in this country.
I hope we immediately start to see reversals and the judges get shut down appropriately so in the near future. All right. Brett Tolman, thanks so much.
Appreciate it. I did not think we'd be talking so much about legal cases, but at least we're not talking about Trump personally this time. But now it's all about the things that he's doing, not him personally. He's doing too much, Brian. He's doing too much done.
How dare he? Thanks, Brett. I'm Dana Perino. This week on Perino on Politics, I'm joined by Fox News contributor, Outkick columnist and host of the Getting Hammered podcast, Mary Catherine Ham. Available now on Fox News podcast dot com or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.
