Charlamagne Tha God: The choice in 2024 is between crooks, cowards and the couch

He's a multimedia phenomenon, and when politicians stop by his breakfast show, the radio show, they seem to always make headlines. What did you do specifically for black people in that regard? What I'm saying, Trevor, is black poverty dropped faster than everybody else.

And if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump and you ain't black. What's something that you always carry with you? Hot sauce. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

Now listen, I just want you to know, people are going to see this and say, okay, she's mandarin' to black people. Okay. Is it working? What were you listening to when you was high? What was on? What song was it?

Oh my goodness. Oh yeah, definitely Snoop. Tupac. Tupac. For sure.

Yep. Are those some of the bigger and brighter moments that got you laughing, Charlamagne? Charlamagne, the God's new book is out. It is great. It's called Get Honest or Die Trying, Why Small Talk Sucks.

It's available everywhere right now. Charlamagne, welcome to our studio. Thank you, Brian. Thank you. It's Die Lying. Get Honest or Die Lying. Oh, you're right. Yes, yes. You're mixing the 50 Cent title with the book title.

But that was my inspiration for the title too. But the thing is, why does small talk suck? Small talk sucks because it's just a waste of time.

We live in a world right now where everybody knows what we're here for. Like say you might have a dinner meeting and you get to the dinner meeting and you sit down and you're like, hey, how are you? Which is fine. A greeting is fine. But you waste, if the dinner meeting is an hour, right, or let's just say 30 minutes, you waste 10 minutes before you even talk about what you actually came to talk about.

So like just get to it. And this is not even, you know, talking about small talk from that perspective, talking about it from the perspective of we spend so much time making micros and macros nowadays, right? And I think social media does that. It takes these little small conversations that we probably shouldn't even be discussing at all and it makes it these macros. So when the actual macros come, we don't even know how to deal with them or talk about them. We have no sense of proportion. None.

Everything's on the same scale. So I wrote these clips of the most important people in America and they all need to talk to you. They don't need to, but they choose to. If they want to get elected. In a lot of cases, you become a power player. What do you think about when you see them talking to you? Has this always been the vision?

Has it always been the dream? Oh, that's a great question. I think when I look at, you know, the people that I grew up, you know, admiring in media, whether it was the Arsenio halls, the Barbara Walters, you know, the Howard Sterns of the world, Petey Greene, like all of those people, they use their platform to talk to folks who was actually shifting culture, who was actually, you know, moving us forward, you know, as a people who had these positions of power in our society. So I never saw them limit who they would sit down and have conversations with.

So I'm not going to ever sit here and act like that wasn't on the board. Yeah, I dreamt when I was younger of possibly interviewing somebody who was the president of the United States of America or a former president of the United States of America or running for president of the United States of America. I thought about, you know, having conversations with these governors and these senators only because those, the people that I just mentioned, I saw them doing that. So yeah, I always wanted to do that. So we had a chance to have lunch.

I've watched a lot of your stuff, heard about you, and I see a guy that's really cool, calm, comfortable on who he is. But you write in your book growing up. You were a bookish kid with a fanny pack.

Always wanted to do well. And told by your friends you're acting white. Well, yeah. Well, and when I was in sixth grade, because, you know, they used to have, like, divisions, right? So it'd be like the A class, B class, C class, D class. And I was in the A class. And there wasn't a lot of black kids in the A class, right? So, you know, yes, I had the glasses.

You're an A track. Yeah, I had the glasses and the fanny pack, and, you know, I would be with some of the white students. And like, yeah, my cousins used to bully me for that. It was like, yo, get away from all the white people, you know?

So yeah, that was the thing at one point. Was it confusing? It was confusing just because I was getting bullied, not because of the racism. You knew you were doing the right thing. Your mom's a teacher.

You had to study in your house. I mean, it's not even necessarily about doing the right thing. I was just around the people that I was around because they were in my class. I wasn't even thinking about it from a black-white perspective. That's me writing about that now as an older person looking back on it. But back then, I just didn't want to be bullied.

So if being around them caused my cousins to bully me, then I'm going to go roll with my cousins. It was just about survival. Right.

Yeah. Why did you have such a drive in your small town in South Carolina? Where did the drive come to, here we are at 48th and 6th in midtown Manhattan? Man, that's a great question. I don't know.

It's just one of those things that's in you, right? Like I just knew that I used to sit in my grandmother's yard and act like my grandmother's field was a stage. I would be on that stage just talking to people. Sometimes I would be performing. I'd be performing like I was in a band, and then sometimes I'd be performing like I was a rapper. Sometimes I would just be talking like I was giving these great speeches.

I was always a writer because my mom was an English teacher, so I always used to write. It was just something in me that just let me know that I was bigger than the circumstances I was in in that moment. I knew that I could transcend my circumstances. I knew that God had something great he wanted me to do.

I just didn't know what it was. So much so, when I was 17 years old, I got Wolverine from the X-Men. I still got the tattoo because tattoos used to be illegal in South Carolina. My man, his name is T. Willis, he was doing, he had the tattoo needle, so he used to do tattoos. When I was like 17, I got Wolverine from the X-Men tattooed on my arm holding a microphone because I thought rap was going to be the thing that changed my life, and I gravitated towards Wolverine because of his healing powers, so that's why I used to like him.

I got him tattooed on my arm right now, but now that I'm 45 years old, it wasn't the microphone for rap that changed my life, it was the microphone in the radio studio, and I'm a huge mental health advocate, so I feel like my life's work, my purpose is to not only heal myself but to help other people heal. Because as a guy that is very comfortable in front of people, you're comfortable right now, you're very open about anxiety that you had. You thought you were having a heart attack at one point growing up. Yeah, I mean I did breathing exercises before I came in here. Any time you see me on television, trust me, I've been in the green room saying prayers, doing breathing exercises, getting myself back to center to come have these conversations. Have you figured out why?

No, I don't know if any, I don't know if people that deal with anxiety ever truly figure out why, because we are the type of people that when everything's going great, that's when we worry. And for me, when there's a lot of chaos around me, I feel like I can thrive in that chaos only because I've created all of this chaos in my head since day one. There's this rapper, his name is Xzibit, Salute Xzibit, he had an old video, and in the video he was walking through the streets of LA, I believe, and it was all of this chaos going on behind him, and he didn't even acknowledge it.

It was just like, he walked to the store and then back to his house, and all of these crazy things are happening behind him, and it didn't bother him in any way, shape, or form. And I feel like that's always been me. So you calm down when things get chaotic, is when things are calm, is you get, you still worry. I'm waiting for something to happen, like, alright, it's too nice here.

Do you know what I'm saying? Things are going too well right now. And that's exactly what anxiety is, it's like these irrational fears. And you know, one of my therapists told me one time, he said, well she said, this is my first therapist, she said, think about all the times you've thought of something bad happening, and it hasn't happened.

And I'm like, oh, I know that little small thought process is very good for you. Just think about all of the things you've worried about, all of the times you thought something bad was going to happen, and it didn't happen, in 45 years of life. So what am I tripping about? So you do mention some things, everyone in our business especially, you could be as good or as accomplished and successful, you've got to be fired, you've got to get let go, in your case, radio could change formats. You found yourself fired four times, and before you got to Breakfast Club, you were at home in South Carolina, small town, child, girlfriend, now your wife. At that moment, is that an anxiety ridden moment, am I ever going to make it, am I ever going to get back to the city? Well, that's a great question, you know, in that moment, I'm also a person that can accept my circumstances, right, because I'm just a person that believes whatever's supposed to happen is going to happen. So if I had been in New York, which I was, I was Wendy Williams co-host for a while, and I did my own morning radio show in Philly, but now I found myself back in South Carolina collecting unemployment checks. I needed to see what God had for me in that moment, like what was going on in my life in that moment that God had me back here.

So I was cool with living in South Carolina, and you know, finding the- Total faith that things are going to work out. Absolutely, finding another gig in radio, even if I had to go work at Walmart or something, I wouldn't have no problem doing that, like I have no problem accepting my circumstances or accepting, you know, the consequences of my actions or accepting my faith, whatever it is, I was perfectly fine with that, but that was my plan, that wasn't God's plan for me. Obviously, then you hear about the Breakfast Club, it seems to me, from the outside, an overnight success, and you haven't looked back since, you've got a great team, you have your own podcast, you employ how many people now? Oh yeah, I have a podcast network called the Black Effect Podcast Network.

Man, I think we have like 17 employees, but we have like over 30 different podcasts, you know, that we're partnered with, and you know, we're with iHeartRadio, that's been my partners for the last 14 years, I got my own book in print with Simon & Schuster, that's about my new book, Get Honest or Die Line, Why Smart Talk Sucks is on my book in print, Black Privilege Publishing, me and Kevin Hart got a company called SBH Productions with Audible, where we put out audio scripted content, and I executive produce a couple movies here and there, I do comic books, I got a dispensary opening in Newark, New Jersey, I have some crystals franchises me and my wife are opening, life is good, God is good. The Fox News Rundown, a contrast of perspectives you won't hear anywhere else. Your daily dose of news twice a day, featuring insight from top newsmakers, reporters, and Fox News contributors, listen and subscribe now by going to FoxNewsPodcasts.com.

Out of the gates and ready to go. Hey, it's Hutton Withrow, Hot Mike is here on the Outkick Network. We've got your afternoon covered with the latest sports discussion, and it's available wherever you find your audio.

Daily analysis and news. He is hot. I am Mike. Actually, my name is Chad. His name is Jonathan, but you get the picture. We're going to bring it every single day. Whatever you want to call us, we'll respond to, we just want you to respond to what we're dishing out every day.

And while you're here, we hope you subscribe to the podcast, like, subscribe, and share. But you've taken control, so I know Kevin Hart talked about being part of a sitcom and finding out through somebody else, the floor manager, his sitcom's canceled, he's out of a job. He said, for now on, I'm going to be unfireable, I'm going to make my own companies, I'm going to be my own.

He gets his social media. It seems like you have the same thing. You don't want to be fireable because you're creating your own business within your personality. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the beauty of being an entrepreneur, right?

Like that is the beauty of America and America. You can, you know, it's free enterprise. Like you can, you know, build your own company, you can build your own business, you can create your own lane. And the beauty I like about this era, and you, you know this, Brian, we didn't have all of these new media outlets when we were coming up. You were either on radio or you weren't, you were either on television or you weren't. Nowadays, yo, you can be on a podcast, you can have a YouTube platform and you can be right there, you know, in the conversation with the so-called traditional media. And in a way you think that's kind of bad because you say people come up to you all the time and they say, show me, how do I get a podcast? Says, my advice to people, my answer, we don't need more podcasters.

We need electricians, welders, plumbers, folks who know how to fix a roof, air conditioners. There are too many podcasters, 95% of them are not worth blank. And to be fair, this applies to streamers, YouTubers, and all kinds of influencers. I know Howard Stern has talked about that too. It's too easy to go get a podcast.

There's no process to get through. You want to raise, but you don't want to beat your boss to work and you don't want to stay beyond, but you want to ask your boss, in your case, you, I need a raise. And that's too much of an entitlement that you're seeing. You know, in my first book, Black Privilege, I have a chapter called F your dreams, right?

And this is the F word. Can't say that because we're on television. I'd rather you're not. If you don't mind, but it's F your dreams, but it's F your dreams if it's not your dream, because a lot of times what people do is they see something working for somebody else and being that they see it working for somebody else, they say to themselves, okay, that's what I want to do, but that's not what you're supposed to be doing.

And that's why it doesn't necessarily work the way you want it to work. And there's a lot of people who think that these podcasters are making multi millions of dollars. Everybody's not Joe Rogan, okay? Everybody's not going to be, you know, Gillian wild from the million dollars worth of game podcast.

Like those brothers, you know, have, have figured out a lane and they have a niche and they make money for, you know, the respective platforms that they're on, but everybody's not going to see that. Right. So it's like, everybody does not need to be running towards that. We do need more plumbers, right? We do need more electricians and there's glory in that. Yes. We do need more engineers. We need more lawyers.

Yes. So we have a better shot of going to school and you know, getting your degree and getting in those fields and making really good money than you do being a successful podcast. So with your book tour, we, we met a couple of months ago, we were going to do this and then your books come now.

We said, let's hold off and wait. People are always talking politics with you. You talk politics on your show. You said you'd rather talk about issues than politicians and you do not like your choices right now for this presidential race.

I mean, you look at the polls in America, most of America doesn't like our choices and it's presidential race. What about the state of the country? Where do you think we're at right now?

10 being as good as you've ever had it. Maybe it's in the nineties and here we are in 2024. Well, that's, that's subjective, right? Cause if you ask me, my answer might be different than, you know, one of my cousins is living, you know, down in Mount Dakota, South Carolina, or, you know, one of these kids that might be talking to in Newark, New Jersey or in Harlem, South Carolina at the food bank. Like, so I think the America's never been great for everybody, but you know, I think about the least of us. Like those are the people that, you know, I use my resources to try to pour back into the least of us.

And when I have conversations with the people, you know, the, the, the porn disenfranchised in this country, they are not happy in any way, shape or form. Like, you know, America's never really given a damn about the poor, but man, they really getting their ass kicked in a real, real way. In what, in what way does the government hurt the poor? And what way does the government hurt the poor?

Like, do you think they don't do enough to help, or do you think they're... Never. Like, historically that has never been the case in our country. It doesn't matter what party is in office. Doesn't matter if it's Democrats, it doesn't matter if it's Republicans.

This country does not care about the poor in any way, shape or form. And I think that, you know, people get very frustrated right now. I got in trouble. I'm not going to say trouble, but there was some backlash earlier this year when I got asked a simple question by Joseph, who works here at Fox, you know, at Fox Digital.

At Fox Digital. Yeah, he asked me a simple question. He said, do I think the border is going to be an issue in November?

This was in January. And I said, yeah. And I said, the reason I feel like it's going to be an issue, because the first time in my life people that I know are having conversations with me about what's going on at the border, whether it's, you know, somebody I know who works at a parking garage in New York coming to me in tears talking about, you know, the crime that is in his neighborhood because of gangs that are coming over or, you know, talking to activists in Chicago who are just upset because they feel like, you know, these people are coming over and getting more access to resources than people who've been living on the South Side, you know, homeless are getting. That's just me listening to the people or, you know, sitting on my radio show The Breakfast Club and hearing people upset because, you know, Mayor Eric Adams, you know, let migrants shelter in a school for a day and the kids had to stay home and do remote learning.

That's just me listening to people. So when I get asked that question and I say yes, all of a sudden I'm on, you know, MSNBC with the headline, Charlamagne to God is Spreading MAGA Messaging. I'm like, these people aren't MAGA. The black activists I'm talking to in Chicago, like my people, Zoe out there, she's not MAGA. There ain't no MAGA means. No, she knows what MAGA means, but she's not MAGA.

Or like the parking attendant, he's not MAGA, this is just a regular, everyday working class person who's coming to me because they know I got a microphone and they're complaining. And I think that's the first time I think it surprised many people, too, because it's a national issue. Used to be a border issue.

If you're tough on the border, you don't like Hispanic people. Now all of a sudden, you can't, because Hispanic people in America go, what's going on here? The Roosevelt Hotel in downtown has been overrun.

Then you see Randall's Island, the only place for kids to play, really, in New York City. It's now an encampment. No one's talking about Democrat or Republican there. So do you think that'll be a national issue that people are going to be voting on in November? It's a national issue now. It was a national issue back in January, but for whatever reason, it was still labeled a political talking point. So if you weren't on one side of that issue, if you were on one side of that issue, you get labeled one thing. If you're on another side of that issue, you get labeled another thing. But now, it's like everybody's having the same conversation.

And guess what? If America knew how to take care of the least of us, it wouldn't even be a problem. If America really was the land of milk and honey, and they could take care of their people here, people wouldn't be upset if others were coming over and getting taken care of, too. But I would think that we need people to come here legally.

Nobody cares. Everyone loves new immigrants. All these other countries are dying because no one wants to go there.

Japan, Russia, for example. But now, people want to come here, but they got to go through the process. I think that bothers people. You pay the fees, you take the test, you go through the system, as opposed to run through the system.

I'll see you in 10 years with a desk warrant. It feels to me like when I hear Democrats and Republicans have that conversation, they're having the same conversation. But for whatever reason, they both want the credit for making it happen.

They're both saying the same thing, at least from what I can tell. I think the Democrats lately are saying it. Tom Suozzi got elected on Long Island because he said the border's a problem. But if you told Chuck Schumer that last time, no one wanted to build a wall. Trump brings up the wall, then everyone ran from the border.

That's a Trump issue. And I think when the governor of Texas started sending the illegal immigrants out of El Paso into Chicago and New York and Philadelphia, then it became a national issue. Yeah, people got mad at me even back then when I was talking about, you know, Governor Greg Abbott and DeSantis in Florida. And I was saying, hey, man, it's inhumane and cruel what they're doing to the migrants.

But it's actually kind of genius, right? Because if you're saying that you're a sanctuary city and you're saying welcome, welcome, we'll take them, we'll take them, OK. So now that they sent them here, now they're like, send them back. We don't have enough room for them. So what it makes it, what it makes it seem like to people is Republicans were always right on that issue and Democrats were wrong.

Like, it's really just that, I mean, just that simple to optics. So just from a political, as a political stunt, it worked. So do you think we should get rid of sanctuary cities? I think you should always find places for the least of us. Like I said, like if there's people that actually need help, you know, and then, you know, they're going through the process legally and they're coming to America for a better life.

I think you should, you should welcome them. You brought up something on The Daily Show when you were hosting. You said, and you went through it a little longer, DEI, diversity equity. Do you believe that there's still a place for that? Do you think it's been overdone? I see as we're doing this, MIT is getting rid of that now. Do you think DEI is hurt?

No, I absolutely think it's a place for it. The DEI I was talking about was corporate DEI. I was talking about specifically corporate initiatives. You know, these people who promised to donate all of this money to all of these different, you know, black organizations and that money never came to fruition. You know, these corporations that you walk into their office and they got a Simone Biles poster on the wall and it says, we're head over heels over diversity. Like it was a lot of performative things.

You know, it wasn't things of real substance. That's what I was speaking to. I actually think, and my man, John Hope Bryant, John Hope Bryant is a brilliant, you know, friend of mine. And he has this theory, which I agree with diversity, equity and inclusion is the only way that America, America's GDP is going to grow in the future because like there's not enough college educated white men right now to sustain our current GDP. So you're going to have to teach black people and brown people, you know, these different skill sets, and you're going to have to teach them, you know, about financial literacy and how to empower themselves on the business front just to continue to grow the country of America.

We can't sit here and act like, you know, America's not a country of immigrants. Do you? Absolutely.

There's nobody that should argue that show. I mean, do you think that there aren't more black executives because white executives don't want them to be, they don't want to work with, uh, with qualified African Americans. Do you think that that's one of the reasons holding back, uh, holding back blacks in America? It's a million, it's a million different reasons why black people, you know, aren't where we're supposed to be in America, but we're also new. Like we're acting like America is not a fairly new country when you're coming up on two 50.

Yeah. When you're talking about things like you just think about the civil rights area, there's people who are still alive right now who saw the civil rights act of 1964 there's people, there's people who were alive when that happened, right? So we're, we're, we're, we're new, we're, we're growing, right? I do think that there's a lot of systemic things that happened to black people in this country and um, there's going to have to be some systemic things done to undo a lot of those wrongs that happened, happened to us in this country.

But I think, I think we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're getting there slowly but, but surely. So I wrote the book president freedom fighter, Frederick Douglass, born a slave escapes to freedom becomes one of the most significant people in American history. And then Teddy and Booker T, Teddy Roosevelt, Booker T, they walk with each other. Booker T lived in and Matt found a way to thrive and help others in segregated South.

So understand really the struggle because they wrote so much, you knew exactly what they were thinking, you knew exactly the struggle they went through and they didn't soft pedal any of it. So to see how much progress we made then, have we made a blunt progress in your mind where we don't need affirmative action anymore? That the playing field is almost level. Nah, playing field is not that level because there's still systemic racism that exists, you know, in every single industry in America. I mean, another thing about the DEI thing, the reason you have to have, you know, DEI programs is because of systemic racism. And it bugs me out when people say America is not a racist country, okay? But we can't act like there's not systemic racism in a lot of different institutions in America. Do I think every white person in America is racist? No, that's ridiculous. Just like every white person shouldn't think every black person is a thug. That's ridiculous, right? Or every black person is stupid.

That's ridiculous. But we have to acknowledge that there is systemic racism in so many different institutions from our educational system to our healthcare system. And you know, if we don't acknowledge that, we're never going to get the way we need to be. On education, if that is in fact true and you have a chance to scholarship minorities into charter schools, are you in support of that? And are you surprised how many Democrats are not? Scholarship minorities? Into charter schools. These charter schools, the performance, the numbers, the grades, through the roof. They demand more from uniforms on down for the most part across the country. I didn't know Democrats were against that. Uniformly, they're almost against charter school opportunities, especially the governor here in New York, the previous one and the current one. They don't want to open up any new ones. There's money there to do it. They want to keep the schools empty because the teachers' unions want to make sure those charter schools that aren't unionized do not begin to thrive, yet the results are better.

Is that something that you have trouble tolerating? I'm not an education expert, so you're asking me a question that's above my pay grade. Okay, check it out. When I hear it, when I hear you say scholarships for school, I'm never going to be against scholarships for school. That's one thing I do with my foundation, the Mental Wealth Alliance.

We want to increase the amount of black mental health care professionals, and that's one thing we do. We raise money to provide scholarships for people who want to get in those fields. I donated a quarter million dollars to South Carolina State University because that's my mother's alma mater, and for people majoring in English, people majoring in things in the mental health profession, people majoring in communications because I'm a media personality. I have no problem donating that kind of money to provide scholarships. When I hear what you just said, just scholarships for charter schools, I'm like, why would anybody do that?

The tuition would be zero, and the money's already set aside through tax dollars, but it's definitely worth having a conversation about it. By the way, talking about that, when it comes to taxes, I would have no problem spending the amount of money I do in taxes if I knew my money was going to things that were actually benefiting kids. I don't know. That's strange. Are Democrats really against? Oh, they are thoroughly against it. Any Democrats for a teacher's union who wants the teacher's union vote is not going to go for charter schools, which is not unionized. Wow.

I got to bring my man Dr. Steve Perry up here one day to talk about that. Absolutely. So, Charlamagne, looking at this election, we see the numbers in terms of Hispanics. It's basically a dead heat between Biden and Trump. We see the African-American vote. I've not seen an African-American poll with Trump less than 20%, when for the most part, I think Nixon did the best at 13%.

That's a long time ago. Why do you think he's picking up Hispanic, black, or minority support? I don't know if he really is, and the reason I say that, I think a lot of those polls might be slightly overstated. I do think it will be an uptick.

I don't know. I can't see 20% of black people voting for Donald Trump, but I will say this as far as the blacks, Latinos, the youth vote. I think people are just tired of politics, period. I don't think it's about Trump.

I don't think it's about Biden. My man Tim Ryan always talks about the exhausted majority, and I think the majority of Americans are just exhausted with American politics. These two candidates, they don't do anything but suck the life out of everybody. People are drained. They're not energized by either one of these candidates. But you have to see, Charlamagne, 100,000 people lined up in Wildwood, New Jersey in the middle of nowhere.

It was freezing that night on the beach to watch a guy in a state that he lost by 15 points. You can't say that they're not energized to see Trump. He's entertaining.

Do you think it's that? They like going to a free stand-up show. I'm not saying that these guys don't have a base. Of course Joe Biden has a base of people that support him. Of course Donald Trump has a base of people that support him. But as far as like those hypothetical swing voters, you know, the youth vote, the people who are just turning 18 who want to go out there and vote, they're not inspired by either one of these candidates. I've been saying it for months now. I think that this election this year is about the Republicans who are the crooks, the Democrats who are the cowards, because they don't fight for nothing, and the couch, which is voter apathy.

I think the couch will probably win. And whose fault is that? It's not the people. It's the candidates. So why do you think, we'll break that down, why do you think Republicans are the crooks? I mean, damn, their candidate for president has 88-plus criminal charges right now.

How many do you think are legitimate? I have no idea, but I do know that if Barack Obama had 88 criminal charges, it wouldn't be a question of how many are legitimate. It would be he's not qualified to run. Do you think that the, from what you know about the case in New York, do you think that would be brought by any other candidate, any other person that you know?

Because I see Fareed Zakaria, just who leans left, very smart guy, but he despises Trump. And he said, let's be honest, he's the only candidate that would be charged like this in New York. Yeah, if I'm being honest, man, that wouldn't be the, and I know these things take time and there's a process, it just looks weird for that to be the first one that rolls out. Like, you know, if it was something about, you know, election interference, that would make more sense to me. You know, but the whole porn Stormy Daniels thing, it does look like, it does look like a show. And it's gonna be bad if, you know, that one gets thrown out, because everybody's gonna automatically just say, well, all the rest of them might be BS too. As you just said, you said, you asked me how many of them are legitimate. If they can make that one go away and make that one look like this was just a witch hunt, as he always says, it's going, you know, it's gonna make the rest of them lose a lot of credibility. Sure. Oh man, I watched a couple of weeks ago when the president of the United States went to Morehouse College, an old black, historically black college.

And one of the lines he said was, in fact, let's watch. What is democracy? If black men are being killed in the street, what is democracy?

The trail of broken promises still leave black communities behind. What is democracy? You have to be 10 times better than anyone else to get a fair shot. Most of all, what does it mean? As we've heard before, to be a black man who loves his country, even if it doesn't love him back in equal measure.

Being Doc Rivers from a few years ago, your thoughts, if you were sitting in that audience wearing that gown, graduating that day, is that an inspirational message? No. Not in no way, shape, or form, especially for somebody who's been in politics as long as President Biden has been in politics. I would be wondering, well, what have you done?

It's your country. What have you done to make some of these things that you're not saying not be true? For as long as he's been in politics, he's contributed to a lot of those feelings that he's expressing. It sounded very pessimistic, you know what I mean? At least President Barack Obama, he had the audacity of hope.

He came in with optimism. That right there was doom and gloom. Especially coming from the President of the United States of America, I don't want to hear about the problems. I want to hear from you the solutions, right, because you've been in politics for so long.

I want to hear more solutions from you. I don't want to hear all of those problems. And being that he was getting so much flack from Morehouse students, it's kind of like, all right, I know I've been getting flack. This crowd ain't really here for me, so let me stand up here and tell them everything they want to hear, which is politics in a nutshell, right?

It's his dream selling season, whether it's Donald Trump, whether it's President Joe Biden. They're going to stand in front of whatever crowd they're in front of and tell them exactly what they want to hear, because they want to get the votes. What's your message? What would your message have been to Morehouse? You know what it takes to get into that school, excel at that school, you got the valedictorian sitting behind you. What is the message you think that seniors in college need to hear? If I was President Joe Biden and I was getting the backlash that I was getting from Morehouse students, I would have talked with them, not to them. And what I mean by that is I would have did a town hall, I would have let somebody else give the commencement speech, but I would have went there and said, you know what? I want to go down there and I want to talk to these black people at Morehouse College and I want to have a conversation with them and I want to see what they're really frustrated about.

I want to talk to them about the things that I know are bothering them. I think that would go way farther than what he did. We was at Clark Atlanta University a couple of weeks before he gave that speech, myself and Jess Hilarious and DJ Envy, the Breakfast Club, we were down there broadcasting from Clark Atlanta and we had a conversation with the kids, we broadcasted from one of the auditoriums on their campus and we talked to the kids and these kids are brilliant. Like these kids, they care about actual issues, they're not even really tripping off the individuals, they're not on Trump, they're not on Biden, they care about actual issues and what's going to sound, and I put this out, this is on air, a lot of them were talking about RFK Junior and the reason they were talking about RFK Junior was because he came to the school and spoke to them. So he had a conversation with them and they believed a lot of the things that were coming out of his mouth, that's what President Biden should be doing, that's what the Vice President Kamala Harris should be doing. I've said it a million times, Vice President Kamala Harris should be coming on Fox, they're afraid of Fox because they feel like, and Fox does do this, they'll take pieces of things that they say to push their narrative, it's not like they didn't say the things, but they'll take the piece of what they want to push their narrative. So my whole thing is, go to Fox, have conversations with the personalities on Fox and talk to the Fox audience.

Very hard to misconstrue what somebody is saying when you're actually watching them say it. Understood too because you knew Kamala Harris before she was Vice President and you had great hope for her and that was one of the reasons you supported the Biden-Harris ticket last time. She was the reason. She was the reason. Yeah.

And what happened? Listen, she's a Vice President, so we don't really ask too much of Vice Presidents, but I think her situation is a very unique situation because of the times that we're in, right? So there's things that she can speak to that maybe President Biden can't speak to, there's things that people she can speak to and speak maybe for that President Biden can't speak to and I would like to see her do more of that. I mean, listen, it's still May, right? And I know they've been in for over three years and three, four months. Three, yeah. Three, four months.

You got five months left. You probably can't change, but man, I just want to see her be the Vice President Kamala Harris that we know behind the scenes because she is a person, she's a person that cares. She really does care. I think that she's handcuffed a lot by this administration and it's interesting because they're- Why do you think that? Why do I think she's- Why do you think she's handcuffed? Because I know her and I know what she stands for and I know the things that she wants to do that she may not necessarily be in a position to do because she doesn't want to overstep the President. Right.

Joe Biden. I mean, think about all of those hit pieces that came out about her over the last couple of years. A lot of those were coming from inside the administration. Because when you have somebody as talented as she is, you can't sit here and act like she's not talented. As talented as she is, there are people that may feel like, oh, she has other ambitions. But her ambitions aren't to upstage the President. I think she's very secure in her role as Vice President. And I think people are definitely afraid of her being President one day. I've heard people- Do you think she would be a good President? She wouldn't be any different than any other Democrat? Like what policies, you know, what issues would she be so different on that President Obama was or President Biden? She wouldn't be any different than any other Democrat. That's why when I hear people say things like, we should be terrified of a Kamala Harris presidency.

We should be scared of a Kamala Harris presidency. Why? Right. You know why. Because she's a woman of color. Oh, I don't think so.

Oh, 100 percent. Do you think that Nikki Haley didn't get the nomination because she's a minority? I think Nikki Haley probably didn't get the nomination because she was afraid to stand up to Donald Trump.

Oh, she stood up to him. Not until the end- She was like Chris Christie by the end. No, Chris Christie was somebody that always kept his foot on Donald Trump's neck.

Nikki Haley didn't get like that until towards the end. And maybe, maybe, I mean, you saw when Vivek Ramaswamy was talking to- He was on your show. Yes, he was. Who was he talking to? I can't remember right now. He was talking to- Was it Marjorie Taylor Greene? No, it wasn't Marjorie. Who was it? I can't remember, but she basically straight up told him, I wouldn't vote for you because you're Indian. Yeah, I don't remember that.

Of course, y'all don't. It was recently. It was like two weeks ago. Who was it? Was it Ann Coulter? Who was it?

It was somebody he was talking to. It was Ann Coulter, right? Oh, it was Ann Coulter? It was Ann Coulter. Yes, but Vivek Ramaswamy was talking to Ann Coulter and then Coulter was like, I wouldn't vote for you because you're Indian. Which is a crazy thing to say. I mean, I'm sorry that she thinks that.

Yes, but I respect the honesty. I like to know where people are coming from. I think America is more than ready for a female president. We just want to see, I think, competence. I actually don't think that America would hesitate at all with a female president. So why'd they hesitate with Hillary Clinton, you think? I think Hillary Clinton, my opinion, totally unlikable. Think she's detached. I thought she ran a lazy campaign.

She used to go to the battleground states. I think she was dismissive of something that you're not and Bill Maher's not, and that is the Trump supporter. The Trump supporter, you have no problem with. You have a problem with President Trump. Bill Maher doesn't have a problem with the Trump supporter.

He likes debating. He has a problem with President Trump. Hillary Clinton hated the Trump supporters, deplorable. People don't get, I still don't think she has changed her opinion on Trump supporters. And you're talking minimum 70 million people.

It's crazy to live in a country where you don't like 70 million people. I agree with you. Disagree is fine.

I agree with you. And I think that when it comes to the Trump supporter, have conversations with them. See why they're supporting Donald Trump. When people started talking to me about the uptick in black support for Donald Trump, I didn't shame them. I went to ask questions. That's what you're great at. You're a great listener. I wanted to know why certain people were starting to support Donald Trump.

And when you get that information, then you know maybe how to pivot or maybe how to change your messaging so you can start connecting with some of those individuals. But when it comes to Nikki Haley, I said months, months ago that I felt like the GOP was doing themselves a disservice by not making her the nominee, because I think people want something different so bad right now in this moment that she probably could have ended up getting votes from both sides. She probably could have ended up getting a lot of those independent voters.

She could have ended up getting a lot of those hypothetical swing voters just because people want something, wanted something different so bad. The pressure on you to endorse Joe Biden. I was a bit astounded on your book tour on the pressure on you. I mean, it's not that you feel it, but you're getting it. Yeah, I'm not captain saver, Joe, OK? That's not what I'm here for, right? So yes, they are asking me, you know, why I won't endorse like, what does it matter? And it's not like I'm out here telling people not to vote. I want people to participate, you know, in the voting process. But all I'm going to do is put the issues out there.

Right. I'm going to say what I feel. What about been saying historically, you know, since this has started, I said that I feel like Donald Trump is not patriotic in any way, shape or form. When you have a person that says, I want to suspend the Constitution to overthrow the result of the overturn, the results of an election, or you see somebody who attempted to lead a coup of this country, or you see his lawyers stand in court. I have a different interpretation of that, although nobody thinks January 6 was a good idea.

At all. But his role in it really changed, stopped after he gave the speech. How do you feel about him saying we should suspend the Constitution to overturn the results of an election?

That would, he does it, put it this way. The last four years when he was in from 2016 to 2020, how did you feel about those four years? It was constant, not, it was not, we were living, we're still living in the United States of anxiety, but it was constant, constant, constant turmoil from him. But in terms of, every day he was stirring up waters, every single day. I agree with you in one respect, there was controversy almost every day.

I think 50% of it in the first two and a half years was a fake Russia investigation, which if you look into it, there was absolutely nothing there. They were trying to suspend him, they were going to jail his brother-in-law. So when you go through that and you're constantly fighting with the media, constantly. But what about the words out of his mouth? He said, I want to suspend the Constitution to overthrow the cornerstone of democracy, which is our elections. Are you quoting him right now? That was from Truth Social.

And then he turned around and said he didn't say it. And on top of that, like I said, leading an attempted coup of this country, I read Project 25. It's terrifying. I don't know what Project 25 is.

It's terrifying, stop. Yes you do. I don't. Yes you do. I really don't.

I know I let you down. But when you read all of those things, you're like, man, is this who we want to be president of the United States of America? And it's not a conservative thing, it's not a Republican thing, this is a Donald Trump thing. This iteration of Trump.

That's why I feel like, like I said, Republicans dropped the ball by not making Nikki Haley the candidate because y'all might have had the opportunity to bring in a whole new swath of people just by trying something different. See, everything you say, I understand it. I also think they just treated him like a normal president, normal questions. You can't treat him. He don't act normal, Brian. There's nothing normal about him. But he would tell you, he would tell you the only reason I'm acting like that is because of the response I'm getting. If I go home to my wife right now and I start acting crazy, right, wild and bugging out, and I say it's your fault, she's probably going to end up falling. Right.

I just can't see you doing that. And I'm not sure that that's an accurate description, but I got to end with this because you got to go to another dozen interviews. Are you optimistic about the country?

And what should someone take from the success you've had in your career? I'm always optimistic about the country because of where I come from. You know what I mean?

I grew up on a dirt road in Monks County, South Carolina. There's people, I don't have a college degree. You know, there's people that are going to say, you know, I wouldn't be here if I wasn't optimistic. Optimism is the only reason I'm in the position, you know, that I'm in. And I think that is the beauty of America. The beauty of America is that, you know, it dares us to dream, right? It dares us to dream. So it's like, you know, I think all of us should have a case for optimism just because history shows that no matter how bad things have gotten in this country, we always seem to, you know, rise like a phoenix. But I just hope that we don't have to hit completely rock bottom, you know, before we have to rebuild again. So to answer your question, yes, I'm always optimistic because of who I am.

And a challenge. If he wins, we'll come back in 2028 and you'll see that he was not a dictator and the Constitution is fine. How about, do we have a date in 2028? I would love to say I'm wrong about that. Why would I want to be right about that?

Why would anybody want to be right about that? I hope that these things that Project 25 say that they want to do are not true. I hope, you know, he doesn't want to be the dictator that he says he wants to be. I hope that in 2028 there's a peaceful, you know, transfer of power to whoever comes in. I pray for that. Please.

We can get on our knees right now together and pray for that. And I have an opinion on your success. OK. You've outworked people.

You really have. So I think that's the whole thing. And the advice I get from that book. And God. I give all credit to God.

Absolutely. You need breaks. You need to be fortunate. You need to be grateful. But you really weren't going to be denied.

And that's why you get fired four times and the fifth time you become an international entrepreneur. That's right. I appreciate you, Brian. All right. Absolutely. Great.

And this is a lot smoother than our lunch when we were interrupted. Oh, yeah. Now, that was crazy. That's when I was like, yo, working for Fox ain't worth it.

We was out. It was me, you and Kennedy. You know, Kennedy's a longtime friend of mine. Kennedy used to work at I Heart. And this dude walked up to you and the dude goes, yeah, Brian, you go, what's up?

He goes, go fuck yourself. I was like, whoa. Right. And boy, when I say Kennedy cursed that dude out so crazy.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it was, I mean, it was amazing curse words. Like, I text Kennedy later and was like, yo, your curse words were impeccable. They were perfect. At lunch, they were perfect. They weren't random curses.

No. And it was intentional. He was like, yeah, have a good day. And she was like, we are going to have a good day. You know why we're not going to, you know why we're going to have a good day? Because we're not interrupting people's lunches, OK?

Telling them to go eff theyself for no reason. How beautiful is your life, huh? I was like, damn, Kennedy. That is, this whole interview belongs to Kennedy. We should dedicate it to him. Absolutely.

Let's go see your book and that great sweater. Get honest or die lying. That's right. Why small talk sucks. Charlemagne the guy.

We had no small talk. That was all real. Thanks. Absolutely. Thanks for doing this.

Absolutely. From the Fox News Podcast Network. Hey there, it's me, Kennedy. Make sure to check out my podcast, Kennedy Saves the World. It is five days a week. Every week. Download and listen at foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. Listen to the show ad-free on Fox News Podcast Plus, on Apple Podcast, Amazon Music with your prime membership or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.