This show proudly sponsored by Real American Freestyle Wrestling. Wasn't too long ago when two brave IRS agents spoke up and talked about what was going on, the bias at their organization. And they now wrote a book. It's called The Whistleblowers versus the Big Guy: Two Special Agents, the Biden crime family, and a corrupt bureaucracy. One of those authors, Joe Ziegler, joins us now.
Hey, Joe. Hey, thank you so much for having me. Hey, Joe, it wasn't too long ago we were watching you testify on Capitol Hill. First off, for people that don't remember, describe to me working at the IRS and noticing what you were noticing and when you first got disturbed by it.
So, I, IRS special agent, was working for an international tax and financial crimes group. Opened up the investigation as a normal course of my business, the Hunter-Biden investigation. And it was from very early on that individuals at the IRS and individuals at DOJ, I knew that they weren't acting appropriately. I knew that they were trying to slow walk the case, that they were essentially providing preferential treatment to the Biden family. And it really started giving concerns, not to the level of blowing the whistle, but ultimately.
Decided to come forward as a whistleblower when they were getting ready to do a Essentially, prosecute Hunter Biden and they removed me from the investigation. And that's when I decided to come forward as a whistleblower. And Gary Shapley, too, right? Yeah, absolutely. Gary Shapley, my boss at the time who was Instrumental in documenting a lot of the issues that we saw within the IRS and DOJ.
What were some of the disturbing things that you saw that were in violation of IRS codes that were being ignored?
So very very early on, um there was So, from wanting to go overt in the investigation to doing actual search warrants of Hunter Biden's residence at the time, the guest house in Delaware, there was a storage unit. What we were trying to go overt. There were comments made from the prosecutors that they were concerned about optics. If you look at the Department of Justice manual, when it comes to prosecuting cases, I don't know where it says optics should be considered in how we proceed forward with normal investigative steps.
So there were multiple things very early on that we knew that we weren't acting appropriately, but we just continued along. And my hope with doing the investigation was that we were gonna follow the leads. Follow the investigative steps, and that we were gonna essentially, if charges were warranted, we were gonna hold Hunter Biden or whoever else accountable for what they may have done criminally wrong.
So, but you were able, I mean, he was charged for IRS violations for not paying his taxes, and he was probably going to go to jail. It looked like he was going to get convicted until his dad pardoned him.
So, wasn't justice being served? Yeah, so I mean, to be completely honest with you, a lot of that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for Gary and I. And we detail a lot of that in the book that, that. Are testifying publicly in front of the Oversight Committee. James Comer and Jason Smith deciding to write the amicus brief to the judge in Delaware.
And thank God that we had that judge in Delaware that took a hard look at what we had brought forward, but also the plea agreement to see that it was not standard, that we weren't treating this person the same. And for something I have never seen happen before, she essentially threw out that plea agreement. She thwarted DOJ's hand, and they had to make David Weiss special counsel. They had to charge the gun, which he was convicted by a jury of his peers. And then he ultimately pled guilty to the tax charges.
So all of those things were done. If not for Gary and I, and for us putting our lives on the line and essentially blowing up our professional and personal lives at the cost of our American democracy. Yeah, it was unbelievable.
So, the question is, too, that we always had: if the president wasn't president, if this guy was just doing his own thing and it didn't possible affect policy, it becomes something you just make sure justice is handed out equally. But you look at some of the deals he was doing internationally, it absolutely could affect policy. Joe Biden was asked about that. What about Hunter's business dealings, Cut 47? How many times have you ever spoken to your son about his overseas business dealings?
I have never spoken to my son about his overseas business dealings. I have never discussed with my son or my brother or anyone else anything having to do with our businesses, period.
So d what do you think about that?
So it's actually quite comical because the narrative from the White House continued to change after that. It was: I never spoke with my son about his businesses, I never benefited financially from any of my son's overseas business dealings. The narrative continued to change as we presented more documents to the House Ways and Means Committee, which they voted out and released.
So it was It was very apparent through the documents and evidence that we brought forward to the committees that the Biden family was essentially selling access to individuals in Romania, China, and Ukraine. In exchange for a significant amount of money to enrich the Biden family. And this access, even when the vice president wasn't vice president anymore, it was the potential of look what he became. He became the president of the United States.
So that is where I think that this story falls short: is that this was a family that was selling off their name. And access to different people within the administration to give benefit and curry favor to other individuals in foreign countries. And that's a big concern. And when it comes to us allowing us to do a normal investigation like we would do in any other case, treat any other taxpayers, we weren't allowed to do that. We weren't allowed to go and ask the questions about Joe Biden's involvement.
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So were you the only two that were upset by this?
So we were probably the only two that came forward publicly who were upset about this, but there were multiple people, even after all of this, that I have talked to on the back end of this, prior FBI agents. We detail some of this in the book, but There were other people that worked the case that I just don't, I don't think that they wanted to blow up their lives like Gary and I did, and they didn't think that it was worth. The sacrifice in doing this. And a lot of, so that's that's the issue here: there's a lot of. IRS, we found the legal way to come forward as whistleblowers.
We were one of the very first in an active investigation to do this. FBI don't think it's very easy for them to do that.
So, I don't think that the processes are there to allow them to come forward like Gary and I did. But I can tell you that. There were multiple times that the FBI agents said that we would Echo our frustrations. I can remember bringing up two years prior to him actually being charged, or a year prior. Um That we needed a special counsel in the case, that we needed someone to take.
That we needed someone to take an independent look at the case, the facts, to make a determination whether we should charge this individual.
So I want you to hear Hunter Biden deny anything, especially with burisma, any bad deal. He's cut 50. I don't think I made a mistake in taking the spot on the board. I think I made a mistake in terms of underestimating the the way in which it would be used against me. I'm being as honest with you as I possibly can.
All I know is that not one investigative body, not one serious journalist has ever accused has ever come to the conclusion that I did anything wrong or that my father did anything wrong.
So what are your thoughts? One of the things that we brought forward was he didn't report his income on his tax return in twenty fourteen from the money that he made from Burisma.
So for him to say he didn't do anything wrong, that negates everything that he says after that.
So I think the point here is that And he knows nothing about oil and gas, but that's not what you're that's not something else. He has no background in it. But that's my whole point with I don't think you can believe a word coming out of his mouth. And then you had the Department of Justice who essentially pushed that under the rug, didn't charge that, let the statute of limitations essentially run out, and then they couldn't end up charging him with that. But when it comes to.
Why was he on? I mean, I'm. We detail a lot of the different things that were done related to Burisma in the book, and we detail a lot of what was going on at the time, and we kind of lay the puzzle together in a very clear form. And I think that the book does a really good job at that. Yeah, I hear you.
Lastly, I just want you to hear Tony Bobolinski, a guy that really came out right before the election, and everyone, no one covered his press conference except Fox, and they just tried to marginalize him. I've never heard the question to Joe Biden. Do you know who Tony Bobolinski is? But they met multiple times, and he was all part of it. Brought in to help land the plane on international business dealing, got out when he realized he was being stabbed in the back.
Cut 49. Joe was flying in to speak about the cancer and the moonshot stuff he was working on. And Hunter and everyone was in town and they wanted to coordinate me meeting with Joe. And so it was set up for the night of May 2nd at the Beverly Hilton. I first met with Hunter Biden and Jim Biden and just had a light discussion where they briefed me that, listen, my dad's on the way, and we won't go into too much detail on the business front, but we'll just spend time talking at a high level about you, your background, the Biden.
Family, and then he's got to get some rest because he's speaking at the conference in the morning.
So it was the beginning As far as I know, they denied that that whole thing happened. He even talked about how he met behind the wall, behind the stanchion, and how they talked about just take care of my family. I heard you have enough experience there.
So do you feel like this book gives you a degree of justice, Joe, as you put out the whistleblowers versus the big guy, two special agents, the Biden crime family and a corrupt bureaucracy?
So, I think the vindication comes from that we put our lives on the line and that ultimately the charges were pushed forward. And Joe Biden was forced to give the pardon and the preemptive pardon to individuals within his family. The justice system actually ended up working because two civil servants put their lives on the line and came forward and showed that. This book details the personal impact of both Gary and I, what we had gone through, how a whistleblower appropriately does this, and then it details the investigation along the way. There's a lot of things that we bring out in the book that haven't been shown before that really detail the behind-the-scene dynamics of the investigation and becoming a whistleblower.
One thing that I want to add to everyone is that this. That this movement is not changed, or it's we need to move this movement forward. There will always be whistleblowers, but what we can do is support our whistleblowers. And something that I don't think that you've mentioned, but I want to bring out to the audience is that Gary and I don't make a cent from this book. It is so important for us to support future and current whistleblowers that Empower Oversight is the owner of the book.
All the proceeds from the book go to Empower Oversight, all the profits from the book, and they will go and help provide legal support for current and future whistleblowers in the future. And just so that's why this book is so important. And by the way, Judge, it's going to give you some advice. You can deduct that in your taxes, all right? Because it's a challenge of the nation.
Not necessarily.
So we are the very first. Iris Working employees or government employees that I know of that have come forward and written a book. The book is actually, we do not own the book. The book is owned by Empower Oversight, and they're a nonprofit group. And we did that because we wanted to continue this movement of supporting Current and future.
Are you working there still? I'm still working at the IRS. I'm currently a senior advisor to the Secretary of Treasury. All right, great. Joe, congratulations on the book.
I look forward to talking to you again about it. All right, really appreciate it. Thank you for having us on your show. Go pick it up. The whistleblowers versus the big guy.
This is Ainsley Earhart. Thank you for joining me for the 52-episode podcast series, The Life of Jesus. A listening experience that will provide hope, comfort, and understanding of the greatest story ever told. Listen and follow starting November 30th on FoxnewsPodcasts.com.
