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You're with Brian Kilmead. We're not permitted to spy on the Israelis. We're not permitted. The potential for blowback is is outrageous. Can you imagine if we spied on the Israelis and got caught?
Every member of Congress would be demanding the CIA director's head. Do you think that we really don't spy on these railies? That was Verboten when I was there. I was surprised to hear you say that in that interview because I figured it's this. gentleman's game, so to speak.
With most other places, post nine eleven, you know, we develop the five eyes and we don't spy on each other in the five eyes. And of course, we have very, very close relationships with other countries, not a ton. But A lot. But the Israelis are special. Yeah, we do not spy on the Israelis.
How does the Mossad feel about that? Is that in fact true? Why don't we ask the former director of the Mossad, Yossi Cohen, who joins us now? Yossi, that was John Kirikau. John was the head of the CIA counterterrorism operation in Pakistan.
He led the raid that captured Abu Zubaida. Blew the whistle on the CIA enhanced interrogation program. Was he right? Is it forbidden? as far as you know, for us to spy on you guys?
Well, I hope. I hope he's right.
Well, I mean, first, thank you very much for having me on your show. That's an amazing thing, an amazing show. I mean, and thank you very much for. Hosting me.
Well, I hope this is the case. I mean, I know that for sure. I mean, Israel is to not spy on the USA. We do not recruit Americans, we do not find the USA, not entirely. I mean, we don't do that.
So I hope that America reciprocate. I I don't know. I don't know that for sure, but I hope this is the case. I mean, what I've seen for the mossad being able to pull off over, you know, my lifetime, over the last 15, 20 years, has been somewhat just astounding, but you're a part of that. Tell me how you got into it.
How do I get into the Mossad in the first place?
Well, when I resigned from the army, I was a commander in the first Lebanon War in 1982. That was like. 40 years ago or 43 years ago. Uh when I resigned from the army, I lived for my first studies in a a British college in London. And I was spotted there by the Mossad.
I mean, my first few months in London, I was spotted by the Mossad and I had been engaged and approached by them. And they said something like, not very clear, but we are the Prime Minister's office, Ministry of Defense, stuff like that, and we want to offer you a job. I didn't know what is it all about. But I was very much interested in learning more or listening to them. And my first visit to Israel, I've engaged with the office, like Prime Minister's office or any other cover name that they've used.
And um I realized that they are The mighty Mossad at the time Um, I was very much interested in doing it and a few months later I've started my exams I mean to make sure that I fit in And a year later, I mean, after the exams were completed, I started my operational courses already.
So in 19. 83, I am a part of the Mosad. It took me two and a half years to be certified as an operative. Uh but after a very long, tough two and a half years, I was eventually there. And I guess the one of the stories is when you become a a mossad agent, you were known as Y, I guess.
Um, you'd kind of lose your identity. You could just disappear. You couldn't tell anyone you're involved in it, correct? Correct.
So what's what's those what have those years been like? I mean, it must have been really hard. You're sacrificing your p your um your personal life for the future of Israel. Absolutely, yes. I mean, this is what you do.
First, I mean, it has to be... Um precisely defined In between what we do and what we don't do, we do not work inside the state of Israel. All right, so everything that everything that Operation Mossad. Is doing is outside outside of Israel, so it's a kind of a very risky job. I mean, we go all over to the Middle East, we go over all over to countries.
And we operate in order to either recruit people or to um conduct special operations to make sure that The state of Israel will be safer. I mean, not only the state of Israel, somehow the world will be safer. Yes, you do sacrifice a lot. I mean, you do sacrifice your personal life. and you're willing to to sacrifice your entire life either your freedom or your life Uh literally.
So this is something that we do on day to day. Our basis.
So we watched how the infiltrated, the Mossad had infiltrated Iran prior to the attacks. Watched as the Mossad had pulled off the most brilliant Pager attack, followed up by the Walkie-Talkie attack over in Lebanon. And I'm wondering, and also the capture of all those documents proving that Iran had a nuclear program. You took it out of Iran and set it up in Israel. You were part of that operation, it seems.
And it just seems like there's nothing you guys can't do. Can you bring us inside that operation to show the world what Iran was really up to?
Well, I mean, it was very interesting times. I mean, it was like in 2015, in July, precisely. I mean, the JCPOA, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, what we call the Iranian nuclear deal, was signed between the powers. USA, China, Russia, and the three Europeans, I mean, backed by the IAA in Vienna, the International Atomic Agency. And the agreement was signed under the Democratic Obama's administration.
I mean, we Have tried our utmost. I was like the prime negotiator for the state of Israel, working together with the White House and the others. To make sure that this agreement will not be signed the way the powers wanted it, but eventually. It was signed. And um in twenty sixteen I am Now, the director of the Mossad, and we start to see something very weird happening in Iran after the agreement was signed.
And they started to collect materials from all over the countries in a very discreet manner. The one who led that job or a discrete job was Dr. Mursan Fakhri Zadeh. Rest in peace. I mean, since then, I mean, he died, right?
But Um according to formal reports in a special op Uh inside Iran. But prior to that, he gathered all these kind of materials in a very um distant area inside Tehran, but a very distant area from the center of Tehran, an area that would not be declared or notified as Part of the administration or part of the regime. And we wondered, what is it?
So, the beginning of January 2016, my first days at the Mossad, we've learned that he's doing something weird. And I have ordered my people Then Not to lose the eye from the ball. I mean to make sure that we know everything that he does. and to make sure that we know where is it going to and with the minute we knew when it lands And the minute they have been satisfied with the collection entirely from the entire state into this A warehouse in Tehran, we bridged in and we took half a ton of materials. to Israel.
I mean, in between the decision and the operation Brian, it took us two years. Wow. Right? I mean, 2016, we took the decision. In January 2018, we've actually operated.
uh dozens of operatives, I mean, together inside this warehouse. Um we had like a few hours to sneak in. to steal what we need because there were three huge containers with a lot of materials.
So we had to control what we bring home and what we don't need to bring home. And then, you know, by seven o'clock in the morning, the entire country was after us. I mean, the kind of pursuit started. We believe 10,000 policemen and circuit police and all borders were Um Totally closed. I mean, that's at sea borders.
And aerial borders, everything was totally controlled and sealed.
So, but we planned that and we knew that this is gonna happen.
So, we left the materials inside Iran for a while. And then Um not by FedEx or GHL DHL. I mean we're brought back to Israel. Understood, you'll leave that up to mystery. But it just goes to show you, you had to show the world the truth.
Because the world was signing off on Iran's diabolical program.
So you had to get it out and prove to everyone. It's not my opinion. This is the fact. This is what they're really working on, making a mockery of the worst deal ever, which thankfully President Trump ripped up the first time. What about the Pager operation?
Absolutely right. Right. And so what about the Pager operation? How long was that in planning? Do you know?
Well, I mean, we've understood that there are because of the use of technologies by our enemies, we have realized in the beginning of the two thousands 2004 is so that we can be or we should be part of their supply chain. Simple as that. I mean, it's not as simple as that, but we have decided to be part of the supply chain. Of part of the enemies, I mean, part of the groups of the enemies that we see that are conducting a discrete purchase of the things that they need. Because when an organization like a terrible organization like Space Balla is buying things, I mean, you can't really buy it, you know.
Amazon or whatever, I mean that or eBay. and get what he needs because part of the materials are not Are forbidden, and he cannot really purchase that.
So, what we did is We have uh kind of conducted um Ourselves to be their official providers. I mean, we had to, of course, not say, I'm not telling them that we're Israelis. But the first equipment that we eventually sold to Hezbollah undercover Not knowing, of course, that we are neither Mossad nor Israel, of course. Was already operating in 2006, the Second Lebanon War. And since then, we're not caught, thank God.
And since then, we are selling again and again and again equipment, not only to them, but to other To other, let's say, organizations or countries that we are interested in either three things. One is intelligence. to location And three to disrupt.
So, disruption could be either a little bomb inside, little explosive things inside, or any other manner. Like it would stop operating, or it will tell us. Where it is, and what do they do with it?
So, they didn't want cell phones, so they wanted to be tracked.
So, they were going to use pagers, they're going to be smarter than you, but you guys put explosive devices in those pagers. They always had to keep them on because they never knew when Hezbollah would come call, and they had to do some terror operation, usually against Israel. And then the explosion happened, and the follow-up with the walkie-talkies, and it became clear that the Mossad had laid the groundwork to take out the world's number one. Terror group, and that's Hezbollah, and they have not recovered. And Nasarella later would be dead because you were able to track his every movement.
So the Masadas pulled off incredible things. I want to play another cut from. I mean, I just can't get my head around it. No one else can. And I think the rest of the world's in awe.
John Kiricow, though, is critical. He's the former head of the CIA Counterterror Operations, I mentioned. Listen to him, Cut 37. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you'd be hard-pressed to argue with the fact that they are really, really good. Best in the world.
My experience is universally negative. Universally negative. I've never had a positive encounter with Mossad. I have never met a CIA officer who has had a positive encounter with Mossad. Because the Mosad doesn't give two sh ⁇ .
you think. Or what you are. trying to focus on in your job. They care only about Israel. And if that means shoving their fists up your ass or trying to recruit you.
or telling you to go f yourself while they try to recruit. You know, the guy sitting next to you, or the guy in the defense contractor's office, they don't care what you think of them. Because for them, it's an issue of survival. I don't know if you're going to if you disagree with anything he said, right? I disagree with everything he said.
Well, I don't know the guy, by the way. I've never worked with him or never met with him, or probably if I did, I don't remember the name. But you know what? When I finished my time after long five and a half years, and I'd been working with Four different directors of the CIA. I start with John Brennan, who's under.
Obama, then Mike Pompeo took over, then Gene Haspell, his deputy, took over when Mike was nominated to be Secretary of State. Then again, Bill Burns with the Democrats under Biden. And I know them all and I respect them all. And the level of cooperation that I had with the CIA as director of the Mossad, Deputy Director of the Mossad, and you know what?
Somehow behind the scene. Uh the discrete operations that they've c we've conducted together maybe brought them to the point that I in my last days In my time, I was invited to Washington, DC. And I was awarded by the John Tennett Award. given to me by the head of the CIA. Reflecting exactly the wonderful cooperation that we had with the state of Israel and with the Mossad precisely.
So you counter that. I got it. Yep. I counter that. I got one more question for you.
As impressive, if you were in charge of the Mossad, would October 7th have happened? How could Israel have been so blindsided by people secretly doing drills and learning how to hang glide for them to pull off such a devastating attack? They killed so many and took over 200 hostages. Right, I think first Mossal is not dealing with the Palestinian story whatsoever. We're not involved in either.
Judea and Samara, what we call the West Bank, or in Gaza Street? Unfortunately, so I think that you can see the differences in the level, as you've mentioned. I mean, what we can do inside Iran, which is far away. I mean, we don't share any border with Iran. I mean, it's hard to get in and to get out, or Iraq, or Syria, or other nations that we had to operate in.
And the same way that we have infiltrated, I mean, in between a tougher organization called, as you mentioned correctly, I mean, Hezbollah.
Now, Mossad is not dealing with Gaza Strip, and I say again, unfortunately. And, you know, at the national level of the discrete. Things that you don't see on the national level history is that we do have two lines of defense. The first line of defense is the intelligence line of defense. And this one collapsed because we didn't have enough intelligence.
Blankly. I mean, in my book that I published recently in the USA too. uh the sword of freedom i mean you can you can read And learn. About my Willing. uh about my wishes to be part of the uh battle in Gaza Street.
I offered my Mossad services to the Prime Minister and to my counterparts inside Israel, head of. Our Shin Bek, the like equivalent to the FBI, head of the military intelligence inside the Israeli IDF. Uh, it's that idea, so and I was kicked out. I mean, I was not. like welcomed with our whatever troops, operatives.
And methodologists. Why? Because they claimed wrongly that they have enough intelligence and they don't really need us. And this line of defense collapsed completely. I mean, we didn't see that.
It's not a small operation that Hamas has conducted, right? It's not one, yeah, it's huge. 1,500, maybe 3,000 people working together in one day, that's a big, big, big thing. Yossi Cohen, I'm just in awe of your career and your accomplishments and what you've done to make Israel one of the most formidable Military's and intelligence operations, and if not the most in the world, and your contributions. I need another three hours with you, and I still wouldn't get the whole story.
Hopefully, we can talk again. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for having me. Yeah, you got it. Back in a moment.
You're with Brian Kilmeade. It's Will Kane Country. Watch it live at noon Eastern Monday through Thursday at FoxNews.com or on the Fox News YouTube channel. And don't miss the show. Listen and follow the podcast five days a week at FoxnewsPodcasts.com or wherever you download your favorite podcasts.
