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So whether you're looking to buy, you're looking to rent, you're looking to sell, Redfin's got you covered. So let's go to Senator Majority Leader John Thune. Senator Thune, welcome back. Thanks, Brian.
Good to be with you. Senator Thune, could you bring us inside? I understand the President asked you to come to the White House yesterday. Josh Hawley was also, Rick Scott, Senator Ron Johnson. These are some of the people that are very critical to a degree of the bill that came out of the House.
What was it like? Well, I think the President is very committed to getting this done, Brian. And so he's sitting down with lots of different folks and I had the chance to sit down with him yesterday and kind of walk through where I think things are in the Senate and also kind of what our vote count looks like. So we've got, you know, the President obviously is incredibly effective at bringing people on board to his position and we need to have him fully engaged with Senators as we go through the next few weeks in hopes that we get something across the finish line here in the Senate that the House can take up and pass and put on the President's desk by the 4th of July, which as you know has been the goal.
Right. So you said you want to tinker with the House bill. In what areas bother you the most?
Or forget about John Thune, what bothers you, but what makes it hardest for you to pass it the most? Well, I think, you know, there are some significant differences, of course, as you know, between the House and the Senate and the way they view some of these issues. Of course, the SALT issue is something that is, you know, that the House has to address. Not an interest necessarily in the Senate. And by the way, for your listeners, that's the deduction for state and local taxes, which is a big issue in some of the, you know, sort of the East Coast, West Coast states, but not so much anywhere else in the country, which is why it's not as big of an issue in the Senate. I think the question of whether some of the tax policies are made permanent as opposed to being four or five years, and permanence obviously creates economic certainty for investment, which drives, you know, job creation and ultimately generates more government revenue, not less, because when the economy is growing and expanding, people are investing or making money, taking realizations and paying taxes.
So I think that's one of the issues. And I would say on the spending side, too, we've got, as you know, a lot of our members who would like to see more in terms of spending cuts. But I think the House did a really nice job of finding areas where we can reform government, you know, root out waste, fraud and abuse, make our government operate more efficiently and effectively. And so the Senate wants to build on that. But, you know, we obviously have people who would like to go farther than the House did. But in the end, it's all about the math and it's what gets us 51 in the Senate and what gets us 218 in the House. Well, here's this whole thing.
There's a couple of things that keep on permeating through. Number one, does it add to the deficit? And are you cutting Medicaid?
Here's Rand Paul, Republican, cut five. The bill increases the debt ceiling by five trillion dollars. This will be the largest increase in the debt ceiling ever in our history. And we've never raised the debt ceiling without actually meeting that target. So you can say it doesn't directly add to the debt. But if you increase the ceiling five trillion, you'll meet that. And what it does is it puts it off the back burner and then we won't discuss it for a year or two. So I think it's a terrible idea to do this. So and the CBO says that you're going to add to the deficit.
Your reaction? What's the reality as you see the math? Well, I think that the CBO and by the way, I mean, there's no question that, you know, the deficits are and the debt is way too high. And the way to get that down, start bending the curve on spending, get greater growth in the economy. As I mentioned earlier, when you have growth in the economy, government revenues go up.
And then if you start bending the spending curve down in the right direction, you can start getting to where it's closer to balance. But it's not going to, the question I think that your people want to know is, will it add to the deficit? We are running deficits and the deficits right now are unacceptably high. But will this lead to higher deficits?
The answer to that is no. You're going to get growth in the economy. And when the economy again is growing, expanding, you get more government revenue. Add to that the almost a couple trillion dollars in cuts that are in the bill. And you have the most significant reduction in spending and biggest amount of savings in history in this legislation.
And if you look at CBO, Brian, in the past, they have a long history of just flat being wrong. Over the past seven years, they scored the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. And the economy grew 5% more than what they projected. Revenues were 1.5 trillion dollars higher than what they projected in 2017. And when the Democrats passed their so-called Inflation Reduction Act last year, CBO missed the mark on energy provisions by about 400%.
I mean, these guys have a, they are notorious for missing on these projections. One thing we do know is if we reduce taxes and cut regulations and have an abundant energy supply in this country, the economy grows and expands. And that's where you start seeing these deficits get a lot smaller by comparison. So Josh Hawley, one of the people says, don't touch Medicaid, but you are looking to touch Medicaid in that no more illegal Medicaid for illegal immigrants. And twice a year, according to the House, you're going to be checking eligibility. Are you cutting Medicaid? Well, no. I mean, I think what... Because Ron Johnson wants you to.
And Hawley doesn't. And we are strengthening and reforming Medicaid. And I think to both of their points, that's what you want to do. You want people, there are people in this country who need the help. And those are the people that you want. You got pregnant moms and disabled and elderly and people who depend upon Medicaid. But you have a lot of people benefiting from Medicaid today, able-bodied adults. You've got a lot of illegals who are on Medicaid, have been added to the rolls by states around the country. And so I think what we're doing is making sure that Medicaid is there for the people designed to be there for and rooting out the waste, fraud and abuse from people who are taking advantage of it. But I think in the end, it's about making that Medicaid more effective and more efficient for those who need it. That's the bottom line, Brian. And so, you know, our members are reacting, as you point out.
We've got some on different sides of this issue. But at the end of the day, it's all about making this program stronger and the directing of the people who are supposed to help. I just want you to hear what Elon said as he left the White House for now and left his Doge people behind. So, you know, I was like disappointed to see the massive spending bill, frankly, which increases the budget deficit, not just decrease it.
And I reminds the work that the Doge team is doing. So your thoughts? Well, I mean, again, he's he's using the CBO numbers and that's a static analysis. The CBO doesn't take into consideration that we have a dynamic economy and that when you make adjustments in tax rates, for example, that you're going to get more growth and more revenue. So he and there are a lot of folks out there who are adopting that point of view, but it's built around projections that the CBO is making, which are based upon a static view of the economy. And so, I mean, I think at the end of the day, what Elon would like to see and we want to see as well is a government that works in a lot more efficient, effective way. That's a better return to the American taxpayer. And I think what you're going to get with this is, like I said, the biggest savings ever achieved in a piece of legislation passed by the Congress in history.
So you are the calmest guy anyone's going to ever meet in Washington. But the president's fed up with Rand Paul already. He put on Truth Social. Rand Paul has very little understanding of the BBB, especially the big, beautiful bill, the tremendous growth that is coming. He loves voting no on everything. He thinks it's good politics, but it's not.
The BBB is a winner. So he is a little upset with him. Are you frustrated with Rand Paul?
Is he rolling up his sleeves and trying to make it better or just critically critical on the outside? You know, I would like to see. It'd be great if we could. I'd like to have all Republicans vote for this thing at the end, Brian. And as I mentioned, you know, we have individual senators who have different views on these issues. And then there are many cases, very thoughtful and well-informed. But at the end of the day, it becomes a question of whether or not this thing makes things better or worse. And I think what the president is arguing and I agree is that, you know, you start getting savings on the spending side.
You start getting greater growth in the economy because of these good tax policies, which are pro-growth. And in the combination of those things ends up making things much better for our country. And so the president would love to see the team stick together.
And so would I, to put it bluntly. But I but, you know, I understand sometimes you can't get everybody, but we've got to have 50. We've got to get 50 plus to J.D. and the chair to meet this thing passed in the Senate.
Understood. And what you have to do, too, is figure out on the salt. I mean, Mike Lawler says, I lose my seat if I don't get the salt tax to where it is right now, as well as your New Jersey Republicans.
And then others say, are you kidding me? We have zero percent taxes for a reason. I'm not paying for New York.
So I don't know if there's a happy medium there, if it goes back to the House and then it dies a slow death. These are types of things that you wanted this job, Leader Thune. I want to talk about something else that could be working its way through the House, and that's a massive sanctions bill on on Russia. Did you talk to the president about that yesterday?
Because it's got over 80 votes. Blumenthal and Lindsey Graham kind of wrote it, I guess. Your thoughts about what's in it and is the president for it? Well, and we touched on it at the White House yesterday and the White House is working with our team here on some refinements to what I think to make sure that from a technical standpoint, it accomplishes what everybody wants to see accomplished. I think the answer to that, Brian, is the president, we're trying to give him as much space and room as is necessary for him to try and negotiate the best possible outcome and get a peaceful solution in Ukraine. And if the sanctions contributes to that, then we're available and ready to move. So we're kind of looking to coordinate with and take direction from the White House about what gives them the best possible chance of succeeding in trying to get the outcome that we want to see and that we want to achieve in Ukraine. Did the president say yes, go ahead and pass it?
I think he's, I wouldn't say that he's there yet. I think that they are, they're aware, obviously, that we have a bill and that we're ready to move. So we will. But I also know that the discussions and the conversations they're having with the Russians and with Ukraine are, you know, again, we want to make sure that they have the best possible chance of getting a good outcome there. And we will contribute to and add to that if they think it's helpful. So we're ready to move. We'll look for a green light from them.
And perhaps at some point, we'll have it. President Zelensky has asked for more patriots. Is there another weapons sale to Ukraine because they do have money? Is there a weapons sale possible or do you see that as too big a hill to climb?
Well, I think that, you know, if we can, sales, I think are one thing. And I think that we want to do everything we can along with our NATO allies and everybody around the world who wants to see the Russians, you know, in this invasion of Ukraine dealt with in a way that deters that kind of bad behavior in the future. And so if we can sell weapons systems and the types of, I've always said, training, intelligence, you know, weapons, anything we can do to help support those efforts there, we should do.
I think it's in the end. It's in the world and the United States interest to do so. I think there's a real concern in the country right now about, you know, more American resources, tax dollars going in there.
But if the Ukrainians are prepared to buy some of our weapons systems and we've got them and they can use them, then we certainly ought to do that. So, Senator Thune, I understand the U.S. did not get a heads up on Operation Spiderweb that devastated the Russian Air Force, blew up at least two bridges and derailed trains. And it's a brilliant operation by everything I read.
It's a year and a half, year plus in the making. Your thoughts about Operation Spiderweb? Congrats to the Ukrainians. I mean, what a masterpiece and the fact they were able to pull it off without anybody, for all intents and purposes, almost anybody around the world knowing what was going on and the effect that it had, the impact, the destructive impact on Russia's war making capability, I think is remarkable.
I mean, it really, it truly is. You've got to give them great credit. And I think what it suggests is the Ukrainians are much better prepared and equipped to defend their country and to fight for their country, men and women, that a lot of times I think the world gives them credit for. Did the president respond to this at all? Because yesterday he was strangely quiet.
I know he's busy with you guys and doing a lot of things behind the scenes. Well, I think that, you know, I'm not sure that I saw anything officially come out of the office either, but I think anything that enhances the possibility that we get closer to a peaceful outcome there is good. It seems to me at least that Ukraine making it very clear to the world and to the Russians that there's a lot of fight left in them helps get people to the table.
So I'm hoping that in the end it's an advantage for the president, the White House and his team as they try and negotiate, again, a successful and hopefully peaceful solution in Ukraine. Senator, you're going to do a rescissions package of $9.8 billion for PBS, NPR, USAID. Is that expected this week?
Well, it's coming. We will probably get it on the floor of the Senate this week. I think it's headed up here from the White House. I don't think we've received it yet, but the House will act on it first and they'll probably send it over here. We're very going to be very preoccupied over the next few weeks with the, you know, the big beautiful bill with budget reconciliation. We've got a stable coin, a crypto bill on the floor this week and next and possibly Russia sanctions, nominations.
You know, we've got a very full docket, but we are certainly, as soon as it is available in the House, acts on it and sends it over here, we will move as quickly as we can. These rescissions bills are ways in which we can find additional savings, largely on the discretionary side of the budget. You know, reconciliation is about the mandatory side. And I know it's a distinction that's lost on people who don't follow this stuff closely, but there are two categories of spending and rescissions deals with the one category and reconciliation with the other.
And we want to make sure that we're moving on all fronts to reduce the size, the scope and the largess in our federal government and make it more efficient, more effective. Senator Fetterman's indication he's fed up with the Democratic Party. Have you actively recruited him for the Republican Party? Well, we've got people who are talking to him. I don't think at this point he's and I can't speak for him, but I know, Brian, that there are overtures, obviously, that they get made.
And I think more than anything else, we just want him to know that he shouldn't let those guys get him down. I mean, he's under attack by his own side, by the far left in this country. And he's making some hard votes. And, you know, if he wants a place or a home in the Republican Party, I'll tell you what, we'll welcome him. Will you try to recruit him for this bill?
We will on. Yeah, we talked to him on a number of bills where we think he might see the world through the lens that we do, as opposed to the far left, the progressive wing of the Democrat Party, which is what's the tail wagging the dog in the Senate these days. And, you know, he's a guy who's shown he can be a voice of reason on some issues like Israel and obviously make votes that maybe aren't always that sometimes may be at odds with his leadership, which I think his leadership is completely out of touch.
I mean, this is a party in the Senate and in the House and across the country that really doesn't have they're just you know, they're just right now really floundering. And and I think that he understands that he's been he's articulated that and I'm hoping that at some point he'll act on it. Ten seconds.
July 3rd. Are you going to say this bill is passed? That is my hope. So we will see.
51, my friend. All right. That's all you need, Senator John Thune.
And of course, you pass it, then the House got to see if they still like it. Thanks so much, Majority Leader. We really appreciate our audience really appreciates the insight. Thanks, Brian. As do I. Back in a moment. Thank you.
