After Hours with Amy Lawrence PODCAST: Hour 2

What makes your skin crawl? No matter how absurd, I want to know. Tails without fur on them?

Such as rats or opossums? I'm Larry Mullins, the host of a new podcast called Your Weirdest Fears. You send me your fear.

I'm just so weirded out about the texture and how they can just move around and flop. And then I go to the experts to learn how to overcome them. Listen and subscribe to Your Weirdest Fears on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcast from. Is there something really absurd that skeaves you out?

Getting a paper cut on my eyeball? A fear you can't shake? I'm going to leak ocular fluid on my cheeks.

It's going to go into my mouth and I will perish. Whatever scares you, I want to talk about it. Join me, Larry Mullins, on my new podcast, Your Weirdest Fears.

Listen and subscribe to Your Weirdest Fears on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcast from. Here we are, middle show of the work week. I feel like we have done some really good work the last couple of nights, but I'm tired.

That's what the home show is about. So yes, proud of the work that we're doing and glad that we've got some fun adventures planned through the rest of this week. Some that we've already undertaken that are on video that we will share with you. Others that we still have in store and it's my favorite thing to be creative. And if we're not reinventing the wheel, at least to grease that squeaky wheel a little bit differently. And so I do love what we do. I love the familiar rhythms, but I also love trying new elements, whether they work or they don't work.

I'll just tell you, sometimes they flame out just in a blaze of disaster. But there are a lot of times that we stumble into new stuff and really enjoy it. So part of that is YouTube. I do not love being on video. I hate actually being on video. It makes me really nervous.

I just worry about all kinds of dumb stuff when I'm on video and I feel very odd about it. But Jay loves to do YouTube stuff and we had had to take some time away from it just to get acclimated to what was happening during football season, the month of October. And now we feel like we had a good opportunity with Halloween in front of us. Orange is my favorite color. I'm not big into Halloween, but orange is my favorite color. Fall is my favorite season and I found us a beautiful pumpkin. I mean, beautiful. Unfortunately, she's no longer beautiful.

She has a very ugly hole, but I know it's so sad. But you will get to see the creative juices flowing with said pumpkin and the tools that producer Jay came up with. I kind of feel I kind of feel like we still did not have everything we needed, but that's not on Jay. Who knew that you would need tape of some sort to be able to the tools help.

Who knew that when I said we needed gloves, I was right. So we got a couple of different things going on this edition of The Hump Show. We're asking you your top three Halloween candies. It's weird.

I go back and forth. I don't know whether to plural candy or not pluralize candy. Candies, candy, your top three Halloween candy candies. Candies, so you can check that out. You can find that post on Twitter after our CBS. Same place that you can send your questions for asking me anything.

I see they're already coming in, so that's good news. Jay's busy in there. He's retweeting.

He's taking notes. He's trying to ignore the pumpkin that's sitting in the studio here. He actually said it smelled like pumpkin when he walked in. I would concur. I do think it smells like pumpkin when I go in and out of our studio.

So, yeah, there's all kinds of stuff happening behind the scenes here. I'm wearing orange. Jay's wearing black.

We look perfect for Halloween. I got a little bit of orange on. Snuck it in there. He did.

He snuck it in underneath his black. So, yeah, it's a busy week around here. Final full week of October.

I don't even know how to process that. World Series starts on Friday. NFL week eight. Week eight starts on Thursday.

How is that even possible? And, of course, we've got hoops in hockey with a couple of storylines that stood out on this edition of the show. We're live from the Rocket Mortgage Studios. Whether you're looking to purchase a new home or refinance yours, Rocket Mortgage can help you get there.

For Home Loan Solutions that fits your life, Rocket can. Now, as we head through the show, I mentioned that we'll have the latest in QB news, some of the updates on the stories that we've been following over the last couple of days, like Matthew Stafford's health. He's taken a lot of hits, like the Patriots using two different quarterbacks on Monday night and Bill Belichick being very cryptic, being very Bill Belichick with his information. A lot of theories about what happened with Mac Jones and why he was on the field at all. And what was the plan going into the game against the Chicago Bears?

We've also got the latest on Kenny Pickett. As the Steelers are trying to climb out of the basement where they're tied with the Browns and the AFC North and then Aaron Rodgers, I think right now he and Tom Brady are grouped together because of all these storylines we've seen play out in the first seven weeks of the NFL season, Bucks and Packers being below 500 with two offenses that very rarely are in sync for consecutive drives, very rarely have been able to put together even a solid half of football. In multiple games, we've seen these two teams with their future Hall of Fame quarterbacks unable to put touchdowns on the board to put the ball in the end zone. It's easy to blame the quarterbacks.

I say this all the time. Quarterbacks get way too much of the credit. For instance, QB wins.

That should not be a stat. Why should a quarterback get credit for a win if it's say a defensive game? Let's see, if I'm going back to the game between the Saints and the Buccaneers in week two, and I remember it because I was sitting in a studio in Green Bay, Wisconsin watching this game. It was brutal offense. Now it was week two, so there's a little more leeway, a little more grace there, but neither the Buccaneers nor the Saints had scored any touchdowns as we're going into the second half.

And do you know what happens in the second half? The Buccaneers pick off Jamis Winston three times. One of those touch, one of those is returned for a touchdown.

I think ultimately the Bucks scored one TD offensively, but the game was won by the defense, by the takeaways. It was not won by Tom Brady and yet somehow Tom Brady gets credit for a win in that situation. So that's why I hate QB wins. That's just one example, but it's also indicative of how much more credit we give quarterbacks and how much more blame quarterbacks receive than any other position on the field, even when it's not accurate or it's not appropriate. Now, could Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers be playing better?

Heck yeah. They've been off on some throws. They've made some poor decisions.

That's the case for sure, but it's not all on them. I get text messages from family and friends, man, these quarterbacks should retire. They stink. They're too old.

Father time is undefeated. It's not that simple ever. And just this past weekend, I think it was fairly obvious if you're watching the Bucks and Packers that nobody's really in sync. First of all, Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Romeo Dobbs, other Green Bay Packers receivers dropping passes, that happened a lot in their two losses on Sunday and something else that happened. And I don't understand this, why Matt Loeffler and the Packers offensive staff insist on going pass first at times, Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon are a formidable tandem.

They should be the top options in that offense. The Packers play better. The Packers win more when they focus on the run game first.

We see that it's, it's not rocket science. And I would say the same thing about the Buccaneers. Now, their offensive line has been a bit of a mess, but they're not focusing or featuring the run game. Tom Brady's throwing for a lot of yards.

He's throwing a lot of passes and certainly he's still capable of doing that. But their offense doesn't have the same depth to it that we've seen in the past. And so if you look at where these two offenses are right now in terms of points per game, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are at 17.7 points per game. They are, would you like to know the teams that are below them?

This is actually kind of crazy. The Broncos are dead last in the NFL. Well, there's a shocker. The Steelers are 31st. The Colts are 30th. All three of those teams have had to use multiple quarterbacks. The Rams, that one's 30th. Those teams have had to use multiple quarterbacks, the Rams, that one's crazy, right?

They're in 28th in terms of points scored per game. The Texans, the Panthers, oh my God, these are the worst teams in the NFL, except for the Rams, which I suppose right now you could say belong there, but the Rams also have a really strong defense, which is saving them. So Broncos, Steelers, Colts, Rams, Texans, Panthers. Do you know who's next? The Buccaneers, that's how far they have fallen in terms of their offense.

Let me keep going. The commanders, the Bears, the Packers. So the Packers and the Buccaneers, two teams with future Hall of Fame quarterbacks are in the bottom fourth, essentially the bottom eight or so. So in terms of points per game, the Packers score 18.3 points per game and the Buccaneers, 17.7. Now rushing yards per game, this one blows me away. Buccaneers are dead last in rushing yards per game. Not even 65 rushing yards per game. Packers are a little better, they're at 110, but I think that's skewed based on a couple of games in which they have focused on the run. The numbers, well, sometimes they don't paint an accurate picture, but in the case of these two teams, they definitely do.

So Aaron Rodgers, I wouldn't say he's on a rampage or anything, but just like Tom Brady, getting honest, getting frank, getting real, being open about the fact that they have to, they have to recognize that the only way they make changes is if they go internal, is if they look at themselves in the mirror and say, we got to fix this. I think when the players really take over, then you're going to see the possibility of us making a run. So when the players really take over, I'm not talking about you starting or I'm not talking about usurping power from coaches. I'm talking about we take over, we take ownership of what we're putting on the field. Now, some of that might be in the plan. So some of that might be, hey, I really want to do this, offense, defense, teams, whatever it might be.

But the other part is taking ownership of your daily habits and your routines. Just because we're a young team, we can't just write that off as, oh, they're figuring it out. The rookies are figuring this thing out.

And they're going to go through their rookie wall and blah, blah, blah. We need everybody on the same page to make the plays that are possible. We need them Monday to Saturday to put in the time to be ready to play Sunday, because there's too many times in a game where there's simple, simple things that just are not being accomplished. Simple, simple things that are not being accomplished. Tom Brady said something similar on his Let's Go podcast when he talked about attention and details, when he talked about doing the little things right, when he talked about taking ownership. Aaron Rodgers continues on Pat McAfee, and he does not hold back about the kind of changes that could be on the horizon. Guys who are making too many mistakes, shouldn't be playing.

Guys start cutting some reps. And maybe guys who aren't playing, give them a chance. I really think the best in people, and I expect that high level. So for me to go out there and think, man, this dude is guaranteed, not run the right route, I have no idea what he's doing. I don't, I don't think like that because I just have an expectation that, you know, we've had these conversations for months now about certain things and they're going to recall in the moment and, and I know they're going to do the right thing and we're going to make this work.

So I just have a lot of optimism when I'm out there. They definitely need that because things have not been going well. And the game against the commanders notwithstanding, it's the third of three consecutive losses. The Giants, the Jets, now Washington. So what did the defense do if you're looking at that game specifically to throw off the Packers? They didn't have to do anything. They played, they rushed four guys. They played the cover four. They sprinkled a couple weekend certs and a couple man coverages and that was it.

So what do you think it is? They got good players, but as far as like schematically, what did they do? Well, I mean, they have a nice front. They have a lot of first rounders in that front. They got a good, you know, good linebackers, good on the back end.

But we had so many just mental errors and mistakes. It's just, it's not the kind of football we're used to playing. You can hear the frustration in his voice.

You can hear him tapping on whatever it is that he's tapping on or fidgeting. This is not something Aaron Rodgers is used to. And it's certainly not a position that is comfortable for Tom Brady either. So both those quarterbacks having to come to terms with, hey, our seasons are hanging in the balance here. Now they both said there's a long way to go, but our season's hanging in the balance here and we got to figure this out.

And the only way to do that is for the players to take ownership for us to get back to work and figure this out. I mean, that's the type of leadership you need. I say it all the time, losing adversity, it reveals either the strong leadership and guys who are willing to follow the leader or the opposite.

It exposes bad leadership or no leadership. And I do believe both these guys have been around for a long time. They have voices that resonate with the locker rooms.

And of course, more of the responsibility falls on them because of the positions they play and because of their experience. Aaron Rodgers on the Pat McAfee show is always on Tuesdays. All right, coming up, diving into our conversation with Gene Steritor. We've got questions for the long time NFL referee and CBS Sports Rules Analyst. And he always answers when we call. It's After Hours with Amy Lawrence, The Hump Show. Send your questions for Ask Amy Anything to either Twitter or Facebook. We're also collecting top Halloween candy.

And by collecting, I wish I actually meant we had it here in studio. Thanks for hanging out with us here on CBS Sports Radio. You are listening to the After Hours Podcast. Is there something really absurd that skeaves you out? Getting a paper cut on my eyeball. A fear you can't shake. I'm going to leak ocular fluid on my cheeks.

It's going to go into my mouth and I will perish. Whatever scares you, I want to talk about it. Join me, Larry Mullins, on my new podcast, Your Weirdest Fears. Listen and subscribe to Your Weirdest Fears on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcast from. What makes your skin crawl? No matter how absurd, I want to know.

Tails without fur on them, such as rats or possums. I'm Larry Mullins, the host of a new podcast called Your Weirdest Fears. You send me your fear.

I'm just so weirded out about the texture and how they can just move around and flop. And then I go to the experts to learn how to overcome them. Listen and subscribe to Your Weirdest Fears on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcast from. Is there something really absurd that skeaves you out? Getting a paper cut on my eyeball. A fear you can't shake. I'm going to leak ocular fluid on my cheeks.

It's going to go into my mouth and I will perish. Whatever scares you, I want to talk about it. Join me, Larry Mullins, on my new podcast, Your Weirdest Fears.

Listen and subscribe to Your Weirdest Fears on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcast from. Walker in the gun, forming off his left tip. Two receivers to the left, two stacked to the right. One of them is the tight end tremble. Walker the snap, fires downfield. Tommy trembles open, makes the catch. Touchdown Panthers!

Like, that's gorgeous. Wide open. Off the field, on the money, and after hours, it's time to talk football with Amy Lawrence. It was definitely the shocker of week seven, though maybe we're getting used to it with the Buccaneers.

They lose to the Panthers in the NFC South and this one taking place in Florida. The call there on Panthers radio. It's after hours with Amy Lawrence on CBS Sports Radio. Now, maybe the attention after the game was stolen away by this video that hit the internet and went viral of two officials who were catching up with Mike Evans in the tunnel and people jumping to conclusions, assuming that they were asking for Mike's autograph. It certainly does look like an exchange that would take place when you got people asking for an athlete's autograph. According to the NFL, that's not what happened. Instead, it was an exchange in which Mike Evans gave his number to one of the officials who apparently has a connection to a golf pro.

Mike wants to take golf lessons. That's what the NFL is indicating. Mike himself has said that this had nothing to do with an autograph, but people will speculate.

And the video definitely could be exactly that. It's after hours with Amy Lawrence on CBS Sports Radio. That was where I wanted to start with longtime NFL referee and CBS Sports rules analyst Gene Steritor, because I do think it's important in this day and age where gambling is taking place and where there are actually people out there who believe pro sports are rigged. This is a critical moment, the way the NFL responds and I wanted to get to the heart of it.

So Gene Steritor, who spent decades in the NFL and in college basketball, always so kind, to pick up the phone and to answer our questions when we reach out to him. Gene, why is it so important that it doesn't even appear as though officials are in any way compromising their relationships with the athletes? For the obvious reasons, Amy, I would think all of us would understand the optics of it, right? I mean, even if it is for another reason or whatever the case may be, the optics of having something like that happen, it puts the possibility of questioning the integrity of the game or of a judgment in a game, not just for those individuals specifically or that crew, but naturally then collectively for the staff and for all of the reasons that we would all fully understand, you just wouldn't want to have that happen. Look, on the field, I was a talker, right? So I joked back and forth with the players, and I felt like that developed a relationship, which I never felt was a personal relationship or I was going to start yelling, look out or something when a defensive player was coming near a quarterback or something unblocked.

So there's an engagement that you have there within the moment, and I think that's totally acceptable. But the optics of what we have seen, all of us have seen now with the advent of Twitter and people having cameras on their phones and video everywhere you go, it's just not the type of look that anyone wants. And I'm sure that both officials involved specifically in that regard too, they wouldn't want something like that to have happened or be on film regardless of how innocent the gesture was.

It's just not a good optic for the game. If an official, maybe a newer official or referee would come to you and say, where do I draw the line? What would you tell him or her? You're going to work is what you're really doing. I mean, yes, is it in front of millions of people, you know, millions of people, thousands in arenas and cameras everywhere and things of that nature, but you're in your job place. You are a participant of those. Now, yes, do we all see people that are famous or have earned that level of stardom and appreciation for what they do without a question of the doubt, but you are on that playing surface with them.

That puts you as far as the job at hand is the equal to that. So you don't do that. You interact with them. They're the best players in the world.

And guess what? You're the best officials in the world. So we're just out here sharing these moments together, but never in a fan type of an optic, right?

We're out here to do our work. And it's a very serious environment that if you can make it light every once in a while and stay focused, then that's a great thing. But really, it is to be addressed that way. And I would say, yes, this is unfortunate because it happens in the stadium when a lot of things are present, but truly, too, officials understand your behaviors and how you were seen on and off of the field. And most times off of the field is what represents who you are and reflects what the fraternity means. So you not only have to keep yourself really really the high bar when you're in the types of situations when games are playing, but you need to continue with the same standard whenever you're living in your community and your personal life.

It is that specific. And truly, officials do speak to that. That is something that is said to the newer officials when you step into this limelight in this level that that's understood.

And I'm sure that's why all parties involved right now are kind of frustrated as a result of this action. I know, though, that some of these guys who've been around the league for a long time, you've worked countless numbers of their games, and they will address officials by name. Or they'll come to you and say, hey, what about this? Or they'll get familiar in that, hey, I need an explanation.

Or I think this call was wrong. I mean, there certainly is a ton of interaction on the field among players and officials. Yeah. You know what I mean? They ask it as nicely as you just said. Hey, can we have a discussion about the previous flag or something like that?

That would be fantastic if it sounded so polite. But truly, I mean, I think really what you're saying, and this is what I loved about now the reflection, right? It's been three or four years since I've been active in both sports. But when you do look back, you realize when a player kind of lives his full career, that's a 12 to 15-year endeavor. And that's a long career in the National Football League.

But you know what? When you have that level of a career as an official, then really, your career is along with them. They've kind of intertwined from the moment they came in as rookies. Or a lot of times, officials work 20-plus years.

So these veterans that retired with a full career, you may have been in your fifth year when they were a rookie. So there's definitely a familiarity that takes place as a result of that interaction two or three times a season. So yes, do they kind of know who you are?

They do their homework. And I'm sure they feel like that endears themselves to you a little more that I know your name, or see how many children you've had, or something like that. And in a lighter moment, boy, I wish they would have asked me the question so politely. Can we just talk a little more about that play you just didn't throw a flag on?

I would have loved to have answered just as politely, too. We're so excited to have Gene Sterritor back on the show. You now see him on CBS Sports. He's a rules analyst. But he spent years and years as an NFL referee.

And also, I didn't see AA basketball officials after hours on CBS Sports Radio. Something that wasn't the case when I first started following football, so my career now going back 20 years, is that we didn't know referee's names, nor did we have this affinity for some of them. I remember Ed Hockley and his big biceps.

And now his son is in the league. Everyone knows who Gene Sterritor is now, and Dean Blandino. And some of these others. And it's almost as though you all have become central figures, too. It's become that familiar, where we actually know names and personalities. Yeah.

And I think through the evolution of my career, those two decades, I really think that came to the fore a lot. Now, look, nerdy official families like mine. We knew the refs were all along. So I go back to Jim Tunney, who was phenomenal. Red Cash in with the classic first down announcement. And Jerry Markbright, in the way that Jerry Markbright stood and did games. So we have our Hall of Fame in our little nerdy world of officials.

But I do think you're right. And I think, look, social media explodes now, right? Accessibility to information is so quick. Get on our phones in the heat of the moment. So it was something that I felt became much more noticeable. And I would say truly, although I've been accused of not shying away from the camera at times, or maybe not being short of words at times, you never really seek the camera when you're referring, or when you're officiating. Because I can assure you that most times if the camera's looking for you, it's not because, you know, you just caught a 30-yard pass and made a great leaping grab in the sideline or something like that either. So you didn't seek that attention, but you also understood, especially in the NFL with the white hat on.

You become part of the production of these shows now a little. You know, a little bit of information to the talent from on the field does allow those and that will just to get a little insight as to what just happened or what you did. And there are those brief moments where I think I realized that in football much more than basketball as a referee administering the game, getting the pertinent information concisely finished, waving your arms slow enough when you're going to time out so that you don't ruin the commercial time that's so precious to a production.

But there are many crossovers like that when you are a referee in the NFL. So you are cognizant of the recognition that you're going to get in the attention that you're going to get in that three-hour window of that game. And then naturally, the efficiency of how you administer the downtime on the field, it makes for a much better experience for the players and coaches as well. So we are now seven weeks in.

And of course, I have my questions. But before I ask them, Gene, how would you describe from an official's perspective these first seven weeks and what it's been like? You know, I wouldn't ever get hyperbolic and say it's worse than any other year, or it's much greater or better than any other year, or anything like that. I see it does truly, I do truly feel like every year, it becomes a little more scrutinized. And I have to honestly admit, these rules, analyst positions, where now we do have someone of some knowledge that is at our right in the real-time moment to kind of elaborate a little more on something.

And in some ways, that's also drawing a little more attention to some of the judgments. I think what I've noticed from the officiating part of it, we've had roughing the passer situations over the last couple of weeks, right? Ironically enough, roughing the passer is down, around 30%. And a total amount of roughing when the passer's called this year.

The types of roughing that may have been called or may have not been called, most of the ones we've talked about here that have been called. What happens in the officiating world, and it's a process through this journey of a season and into the post-season. And it's something that the crews talk about week in and week out, I'm sure, is as a group of officials on a crew, if you have a play that you miss, that's a rather obvious type of a mistake, that you hope you don't make, but if the game's fast, then these mistakes do occur. When you miss what I used to call with my crew, and probably because my crossover between both sports, when I would tell my football crew, look, we can't miss layups, right? You can't miss the layup. If you miss the layup as an officiating crew in a game, that miss layup is truly, you're going to lose any kind of hope in gaining any credibility on the 50-50 plays that are gonna happen throughout the rest of that day now, because you miss the layup, right? So you have to be aware of that. And that's how fine-tuned and aware you need to continue to stay, because one mistake like that in a game causes skepticism for these other really hard, great plays. You're not gonna get any love either.

That also grows to the stuff, right? So if there's two or three of those plays that happen in a week or two weeks in a row, unfortunately. Now, the collective is before this game starts, right?

We're already thinking because of this attention on things that we have seen and thought, this is pretty obvious, they should get this. Replay doesn't need to come in, or we don't need to watch this in slow motion. That starts to happen again. So really, it's a long season. These things happen.

I think we went through a little bump like that here in the first month and a half or seven weeks of the season. And now the goal for the staff, for the game, each crew is, listen, let's calm the waters, become less apparent here, and let's get the big stuff and get back to the game. But inevitably, you know, it rears a pet, and it's part of the process. The process. Oh, man, we love to talk about the process. Trust the process. Well, I trust Gene Sterritor, and I did pick his brain further about roughing the passer when I caught up with him for an extended conversation on Tuesday afternoon. So that is straight ahead.

What are officials supposed to be looking for when it comes? Throughout the 60s and 70s, cops hunted down key figures of the Dixie Mafia, including its enigmatic ringleader, Kirksey Nix. I'm interested in making money.

I'm not interested in hurting people. Fifteen years into Kirksey's life sentence, the Dixie Mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio. Season two, the Dixie Mafia.

Available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Is there something really absurd that skews you out? Getting a paper cut on my eyeball. A fear you can't shake. I'm going to leak ocular fluid on my cheeks.

It's going to go into my mouth and I will perish. Whatever scares you, I want to talk about it. Join me, Larry Mullins, on my new podcast, Your Weirdest Fears. Listen and subscribe to Your Weirdest Fears on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts from. I'm Jed Lipinski.

This is Gone South. A documentary podcast from C13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio. Season two, the Dixie Mafia. Available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts from.

You can find the link in the description below. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South. A documentary podcast from C13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio. Season two, the Dixie Mafia. Available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts from.

Season two, the Dixie Mafia. Available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. To roughing the passer. It's After Hours on CBS Sports Radio. You are listening to the After Hours podcast.

This is After Hours with Amy Lawrence. In a conversation with a longtime NFL referee Gene Sterritor, now part of the CBS Sports family as a rules analyst, so you get him every weekend on TV. And the big topic is roughing the passer. He admitted it.

I'm going to jump right in. Gene, when you have to call roughing the passer, when these moments are in the spotlight, what is it that officials are looking for? Well, that's even gotten more specific, even in the four years since I've been gone, I'm used to it, but really what you're looking for in real time, which is I can't emphasize that enough.

I know we say that a lot on TV and naturally, you know, the people that really don't like the men and women on the stripes always say, oh, here he goes again about his fraternity. The speed of this is really of a nature that it's extremely difficult to explain that, unless you are within 10 feet of that action and the speed of that action. It's not even close if you're sitting in rows four or five, you think where you're close to this and the way it feels different, and it does, but it exponentially grows from the fifth row to the field field now. So in these windows of this two second time frame that happens from when a defensive player gets at least within two yards or so of a quarterback who's in a passing posture, and you're taxed with the pass fumble situation as the ball gone, all these other elements coming while you are trying to officiate about two yards ahead of this individual that has the ball, because you have to see that defensive or that action prior to when it gets to that quarterback, there's body weight involved. It does this person, this human being moving very fast, very large person, coming to a postured player who's the only player on a football field that ever gets hit standing still. Everyone else is moving when they get hit, but not this player. I know we hear a lot of the little phrases about how we're protecting this position.

And you have to remember that and put the human element in that that's why these protections are in there. And I can honestly say when you are very screwed into the game and aware, the game does slow down just like the players. It's one of the beauties of officiating. You get that same rush that an athlete who is really tied in and full focus gets.

You also have to be very schooled on all the nuances that occur and that concentration level can never lapse in. It just can't stop for a second. You don't blink between a play. There's no reason to. It's five seconds.

Don't blink your eyes. It could be the difference between a pass fumble or where that hit occurs. But you also feel it, right? I mean, we all see it a little slower, but then there's a feel, the timing of it. Was it two steps or was it a step and a half?

Now I get to do the beautiful thing now and rewind it and count one step, two. Oh, I can't believe he didn't call that or she didn't call that. Can't you see the second foot just landed before the contact occurred and everybody goes, you know, we go crazy on TV and the viewers that are unhappy with, you know, the call or the non-call. But a lot of that's a feel.

It's what makes the craft something that's extremely, you know, hard to do and very hard to continue to do for a long period of time, which is why you fall in love with it and you become a ref nerd like me. We went through this process where the NFL overreacted and instituted replay for pass interference and we all know what happened to that gene. It was very short-lived because it was not a good idea as a judgment call. Would it be a bad idea then to try to install some type of review for roughing the passer?

I think we'd go down the same place, Amy. Gotcha. You know, we're in the judgments. We're in the areas where a little bit of gray called or not called at times. There's also very good for the game.

And I believe that as well. This game can't be officiated by the letter of the law in every specific nuance. It can't.

The game would not be good. There is holding that's taking place, some restriction. Does it materially affect the play? Does somebody gain an unfair advantage as a result of it? In that art of those types of questions that officials answer in their mind at rapid succession comes the game. And you must keep that to where it is, in my humble opinion.

I think when we go down the rabbit hole, I think we're opening up the same can of worms. Yeah, well, we saw what happened with PI. It was a disaster. And the NFL quickly and quietly did away with it. Gene Steritor is with us now with CBS Sports' long-time NFL ref. And of course, NCAA basketball official.

Not that far away from the new season tipping off. It's after hours here on CBS Sports Radio. In your opinion, what are the most challenging calls to make? As you mentioned, speed of the game and flow of the game. They're all specific to each official, right? I mean, referees aren't going to call pass interference because their actions are on the interior line and actions on the quarterback and on the kickers. So referees live in that world of those types of plays in a game.

Each official has their own levels of, I'm sure, what they would think. Boy, that's a harder play for me, although it's not one that I made decipher. To me, I was the worst running into or roughing the kicker referee, I think, in the history of the NFL because I think again, yes, some of the basketball would go into, you know, I always felt pounders were flopping. You know, it was like I wanted to just call a blocking foul.

I wanted to go to the line, shoot two, and let's play on, you know. But then I would always have every once in a while a coach tell me, Gene, you know, running into the kicker is a penalty, too. That's the coach. He just did his leg a little bit.

He spun, pirouette, and he went down on the ground. It's nothing. He said, no, that's called running into the kicker.

And it's five yards, you know. So for me, I think that was probably my biggest challenge, was I needed to quit thinking, look, you did get contacted, although why are you embellishing it? I'm not giving you anything, you know. So I made a few of those mistakes. I honestly could admit that. Now, all of the plays are as hard as you make them, and truly, none of them are extremely easy, easy. When you really become a three and 400 level official, what you realize is it's more about how you position yourself prior to the action taking place. I was just bad on the kickers, and I apologize to all of them. No one apologizes to kickers, Gene. I like that.

Good for you, breaking some new ground. What happens to an official? Is there any type of penalty when an official gets a call wrong and the NFL points it out? Oh, most definitely. I mean, there's a punitive mark on that game specific and on your year's final grade. And truly, you know, going through an NFL season, if I felt like I had six or seven or eight misses in a season, it was a really, really bad year and rightfully slow.

And that's the truth of it. And they're graded in an extremely meticulous and high level. The NFL has very quality people and a lot of them that are viewing each one of these games and watching each play four or five times so that they can watch each official's responsibility for each individual play every week. So the detail of, you know, and I think what you have to do in those situations, Amy, and that's one of the things as well that an official has to mold a new and younger official and not just what we spoke to earlier.

And that's just this unbelievable fishbowl that you live in. But this level of scrutiny that's going to take place on a human in the most meticulous ways in this environment is also another challenge to the human individual, right? It's on your downtime for the six days. And you're going to be meticulously graded to the highest detail on Tuesday and Wednesday, right? Every week.

So that's where they're living today. Their final grades are coming out on a midweek grade here from last week's game. You also need to be preparing mentally and emotionally for what's going to happen 72 hours from now as well. But it's also within that that starts to develop what I think is what makes you a great official. And that's the ability to critique yourself at that same level and be that meticulous with how you are striving to work the perfect game with the acceptance and understanding that that is not going to happen. But how do I navigate the imperfections of that contest? But you also have to have that mentality that when that plays over, that plays over.

It has to be put away. Very easy to say. I can assure you, very, very difficult, very difficult to do in real time on a field. And even much more difficult when the decision you made on Sunday at 2.30 in the afternoon is still being spoke about the following Thursday and has been for 72 straight hours in every media vehicle outlet that there is known to man.

Interesting. And especially these days when we focus more and more on mental health for athletes themselves because of the fishbowl they live in, I can understand how it would be important as the leader of a crew. I just never thought about it that way as a referee, which, Jean, you were for so long in the league. You're responsible for yourself, yes, and the work that you're doing even when it comes to kickers. But you're also responsible for the well-being and the calls that are made by the rest of your team. And so that's a new perspective, which is something I always get from you.

Jean Steritor, long-time NFL referee and college basketball official, now with CBS Sports. It's always so wonderful to have you on the show. Thank you for answering the call whenever we reach out. Thank you so much, Amy, and take care of your mom. I know it was her birthday just the other day. And enjoy the family. We know how precious it is.

Thanks so much. Throughout the 60s and 70s, cops hunted down key figures of the Dixie Mafia, including its enigmatic ringleader, Kirksey Nix. I'm interested in making money.

I'm not interested in hurting people. Fifteen years into Kirksey's life sentence, the Dixie Mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C-13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio. Season two, the Dixie Mafia, available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Throughout the 60s and 70s, cops hunted down key figures of the Dixie Mafia, including its enigmatic ringleader, Kirksey Nix. I'm interested in making money.

I'm not interested in hurting people. Fifteen years into Kirksey's life sentence, the Dixie Mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C-13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio.

Season two, the Dixie Mafia, available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. What makes your skin crawl? No matter how absurd.

I want to know. Tales without fur on them, such as rats or opossums. I'm Larry Mullins, the host of a new podcast called Your Weirdest Fears. You send me your fear. I'm just so weirded out about the texture and how they can just move around and flop. And then I go to the experts to learn how to overcome them. Listen and subscribe to Your Weirdest Fears on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts from.