After Hours with Amy Lawrence PODCAST: Hour 4

Take too long cause I'm half way gone, I'm half way gone. Hey, hey, happy Wednesday to you. Good morning to you if you're just waking up. We're glad to have you with us. Thank you for your questions for asking me anything. Jay was really happy with them.

He was thrilled that we had some questions come in right under the wire and those were some unique questions as well. Friendly tip, I will not ever tell you who wins the Super Bowl. Who wins the Stanley Cup? If I believe this team or that team is legit and I will also never answer the question of who are your least favorite teams or what are your least favorite sports to watch? Like, you know, I can't do that, right?

I worked hard to build credibility and be appealing across the country. I can't sit here that and tell you what, and it's not even true. There are no sports that I don't like except for UFC and MMA. I just, I can't watch those personal combat sports. I really have a hard time, but they're not mainstream enough for me to talk about them on the show really anyway. But every other sport, I can find an appeal in even soccer. I'm constantly trying to sell you guys on soccer and people shout me down. And so yeah, I'm never going to tell you which teams or sports I don't like. That's just not even a question that you should submit because Jay will never ask. My other favorite ones are like who will win this weekend, Steelers or Eagles? I'm like, why?

Like, let's just dissect this one game in this segment. I do very often go back almost every week. I go back and I answer as many questions as I can, whether it's on Twitter, Alaw Radio, or on our Facebook page, I always go back and I will jot down quick answers, right?

So I'm not going to answer questions that require a novel or that require a full blog post, but if I can answer them quickly and succinctly, I will. So make sure you go back and look on either Twitter or Facebook, and there should be some answers there and some fun exchanges always as part of the hump show or live from the Rocket Mortgage Studios. Whether you're looking to purchase a new home or refinance yours, Rocket Mortgage can help you get there.

For home loan solutions that fit your life, Rocket can. And producer Jay and I have a partially carved pumpkin here in studio. She has a name.

Do I need to say had a name? Are we, we're, we're, I think she's still hanging on. Dearly departed. No, she's hanging on. I thought we cut out her heart though, with, with those little scoopers of yours.

Well, yeah, I guess technically, but. So I'm not big into pumpkin seeds, but man, those were some beautiful pumpkin seeds. She was a very healthy pumpkin until we stabbed her.

Very plentiful. I actually stabbed her. I've never seen a pumpkin cry before. It was an accident. I'm sorry. I almost said her name. I was going to address her.

I can't. You ever have to watch the video to get her name? Jay told me not to name her. I didn't listen.

Why don't I listen to Jay? I was practicing with one of the tools that he purchased and I accidentally stabbed her and she cried. Did you know pumpkins cry? I didn't. And now I'd learned that.

And you can vouch for it though. She actually cried. She was tearing. Yeah, she legitimately cried.

It was, it was sad. So before the show, yeah, you think we're out there talking about football. No, we were first recording our very latest episode of the Stairway to seven series, Halloween candy, because who doesn't love Halloween candy?

We all do. And actually judging by the hundreds of responses we've gotten in the first three hours of the show, you all are dreaming about Halloween candy just as much as we are. So on Twitter, on Facebook, tell us your top three Halloween candies.

We have recorded our Stairway to seven episode with seven steps to get to the very top of the best, most coveted, most desired Halloween candy. I got the last step. I was afraid Jay was going to steal it. I really was. I was nervous. I thought I should actually put it on step three before he got to step two, because I wanted to get it out before he did, but he went a completely different direction. So that will be available later today on our YouTube channel.

After hours, amylorance.com. Jay loves YouTube. I don't know why I let him talk me into things like carving a pumpkin. I mean, I'm wearing orange. I match the pumpkin. They're orange tools.

There's a video. I'm just, why? Why do I let you talk me into these things? I think the orange really got you. You think the orange got me? The orange helped.

The orange helped. I also gave you some of my favorite foods to make out of pumpkin while Jay was carving a pumpkin. I'm almost afraid to go back and watch this video because I just, I was delirious with sadness over the fact that I made the pumpkin cry. No joke.

I'm not lying to you. The pumpkin actually cried. You're going to see it on video. That noise is going to haunt my dreams or my nightmares for- The noises.

The noise that she made after getting stabbed and crying. But I'm telling you, those pumpkin seeds were pretty. We threw them all out and now I don't know what to do with the pumpkin.

Jay and I were actually having a conversation. He said he would take her and put her next to his trash can, which is code four. I'm going to throw her away. Okay.

All right. I feel like I could put her back on my stoop where she was. She was decorating the neighborhood in my yard, but aren't animals going to climb in the pumpkin? I would think some animals would- Mice? Well, will that pumpkin attract mice?

Mice, deer, maybe like some, I don't know, chipmunks or squirrels. Maybe I should put it out on the sidewalk, but then dogs are walking. I don't know. Dogs are going to pee on the pumpkin if she's out on the sidewalk. That's not happening. Maybe we should just leave it in the trash can here at work, at the office. She deserves a more dignified send off than that, I think.

Fine. Are you going to take her home and put her near your trash can? That's very dignified.

Yeah, maybe that's not the most dignified. You're the worst human ever when it comes to pumpkins. I will make pumpkins more and you'll eat them like there's no tomorrow, but you have no more kindness for the pumpkin. I'm saying we should give it a proper send off.

By doing what? I haven't thought of that proper send off yet. I haven't had to ever lay to rest a pumpkin. You laughed when I stabbed her initially. Just admit it. I mean, just because it was so unexpected, the noise and like the juices and the honestly like sad, it really was.

What is wrong with us? She was crying. She did. She actually cried.

Can't make it up. I mean, when did you see this video? Also, the video will be the revelation of her name. I that's that's the tease. I can't tell you what her name is. You're just going to have to wait to see her cry.

And I guess at some point we'll figure out what to do with her. It's after hours with it does smell like pumpkin in the studio, by the way. It's after hours with Amy Lawrence here on CBS Sports Radio. Hey, something happened last night in sports that has never happened before.

Are you ready? First time in 759 career games for Clay Thompson, but we've never seen it until last night. And now we've got Booker and Clay Thompson each getting with fouls.

Clay is upset. He might be kicked out. No, they both gave him technical fouls. And we've got words here at center court. Steph Curry's involved. And of course, Chris Paul is in the middle of that.

You would expect that. And now Clay has come back. He threw out Curry. Ed Malloy just threw out Curry.

No, I believe so. He pointed throughout somebody. He's either Clay or Curry. He threw out somebody. I don't know which.

Let's see. It's Clay Thompson. Clay Thompson has been ejected from the game. So for the first time in 759 career games, regular season and playoff, Clay Thompson got ejected for picking up two technicals. What are you, Draymond Green?

No, no, no. This is a rare occurrence for Clay. And actually, Steve Kerr has indicated that Clay's pretty frustrated right now. That he's actually not surprised with the fact that he was on edge. And he started the season in a bit of a funk. He doesn't love that they're keeping him on a minute's restriction. And so as you hear with Tim Roy and Jim Barnett on Warriors Radio, he and Devin Booker, yap, yap, yap, yapping.

There was a little bit of contact, some extracurricular activity. Of course, Draymond got a technical earlier in the game. So he's in the middle of the two of them. He's clapping loudly like he does.

That's so annoying. You've also got Steph who's talking. And Steph actually had to hold back Clay Thompson when he was ejected from the game.

And he's still yelling as he's walking off the court and yelling back at the son's bench, waving at him with his four fingers up in the air to signify the four championship rings. Now, Devin Booker definitely got the last laugh. But man, this was the highlight.

Well, the highlight. This was the scene stealer between the Warriors and the Suns. Moody waiting with it. Lobs it in the corner to Booker. 10 seconds on the shot clock. Booker against Jerome. Booker waiting. Booker moving. Three seconds to shoot it. Booker fade away from 15. Swish!

It's good. 34 points for D. Booker. 126-101.

Al McCoy on Suns Radio. So yes, Booker has the last laugh. He shoots the lights out and ends up with a real strong performance. 34 points.

Yandere Ayton had a double-double as well. And so the Suns racked up 134 points on the Warriors. The guys have noted they're not playing great defense. The Suns are out to a three-and-one start. But this game was marked more by the fact that you had multiple players who were losing their cool in that third quarter. Tempers boiled over and there are a ton of technical fouls called in under six minutes there in the third quarter resulting in, for one, Klay Thompson's ejection.

So Steve Kerr recognizes that Klay is not super comfortable and not real happy with the way the season started. Love the fire. Klay is an incredible competitor and we need his energy. We need his fire. And it's all going to work out for him. It's all going to come.

It's just, it's going to take some time. I love Klay Thompson and I have from the beginning, you know, from the draft coming out. I said I want to be Klay Thompson. You know, that doesn't excuse us from competing against each other and talking a little mess with each other. So I have fun with it.

Big fan of his and his competitive nature. And that's that. It's frustration. You know, I've been there before and you know what they have. They have the four rings. So, you know, they're going to use that in all the trash talk, rightfully so, respectfully. But I don't have nothing to do with competing. So Devin Booker says I don't mind if we're talking a little mess.

I like how he says that. Maybe that's not the word or one of the words that he was using on the court. But going back and forth with Klay Thompson.

I mean, it's good for the game. These are two very strong defenders. Klay before he got hurt was one of the best two-way guards in the league. And so he's going to find a rhythm and he's going to get comfortable. But this fire from him, Kerr does not mind. So Devin Booker, you hear him at the press conference, but prior to that on TNT. As for the Warriors, it's amazing how the Draymond versus Jordan Poole thing just disappeared once the game started.

But for Jordan Poole, he's got the new contract. Fully committed, of course, they're trying to defend this championship. But no team starts out the year ready to win a title, especially when you had to play so deep into the season last year.

And so you're not going to get any of these guys to talk about worry or panic or anxiety. Nah, it's way too early. It's early. Still figuring a lot of stuff out, figuring rotations out, figuring all types of things out.

So I don't see many growing pains per se. Everybody got to get better. Everybody's running in the form and it takes time. That's Dray.

Dray and Jordan Poole and Steph Curry and Clay Thompson. You've got guys there that now Andrew Wiggins as well, guys that along with the coaching staff recognize where they have to be when the bright lights come on. And it's, yeah, it's way early in the season. So I don't know that anybody at this point should be nervous about a slow start, even if like the Sixers just picked up their first win on what was it Monday night?

And then the Lakers are still winless too. So just, it's a little bit like the NFL. Now the length of the season is different, but you have so much time to be able to make up ground, especially when you think about the teams around you.

Just, yeah, settle in. It's a marathon. It's not a sprint.

It's after hours here on CBS Sports Radio. Speaking of marathon, speaking of streaks, speaking of a long, long, long time. Well, those are all ways that you could describe the Ironman accomplishment of one Phil Kessel. Stick handle into the circle, but then he lost it on the reach back.

And here comes Vegas. Kessel against Bennett, gets behind him, shoots. He scores. Kessel racing down the left wing after the Sharks were defended in the defensive zone. And Kessel moves on. Benning snaps home his 400th National Hockey League goal.

And Vegas takes a one-nothing lead in dramatic fashion. Not just a milestone, but a flare for the dramatic on what was the night in which he became the Ironman of the NFL. Phil Kessel, who's now 35 years old. He's played everywhere from Boston to Toronto to Arizona to, I know I'm missing some in there now, obviously with the Vegas Golden Knights Pittsburgh.

Yes. Thank you, producer Jay. Jay, he actually only needed nine months to pass the previous Ironman. And so he had tied him in the last game. And now when he is playing with the Golden Knights in San Jose, becomes the man with the longest consecutive game streak in NHL history. So passes Keith Yandell, who, as I say, only had that record for nine months. He just retired before the start of this season.

So it was Phil's to break. The streak began November 3rd. So we're getting close to the anniversary.

November 3rd, 2009. Hasn't missed a game in nearly 13 years. That's phenomenal. 990 consecutive games. The call there on Sharks radio with Dan Ruzinowski. The game is taking place in San Jose. They actually did play tribute to him once they had a stoppage in play. And then to boot, he scores his 400th career goal.

What a night for Kessel, who was there on the bench when he got interviewed by ESPN. I always say I like to play. So I try to play no matter what. And you know, I still have fun with it.

So what goes through your mind today as you reach this milestone? I mean, not that much. I was saying quite a long time and getting old.

You know, I had a fun time doing it. And, you know, a lot of games. So Kessel breaks the record and we'll see what he adds to it. But congratulations to the Cal Ripken of the NHL. And at 35 years old, he's still got some time as long as he stays healthy.

And that's part of the deal. It's not just the commitment, the determination, the love for the game, at times playing hurt, times playing through pain, but recognizing that your teammates and the game itself, these opportunities, you're not going to have them forever. And it's one of the things I love about older athletes. And here he is in his mid thirties. He's seen a lot of his contemporaries retire. He understands that the days are nearing an end. And you come and you come face to face with your own sports mortality.

And older players tend to appreciate the opportunities a little more and don't take them for granted. All right. It's our hump show. If you want to weigh in on Halloween candy, because why not?

We're getting close to Halloween weekend. You can do that on Twitter, a law radio, and then also on our Facebook page. Glad to have you with us. You can do this.

You can conquer your hump day after hours. CBS sports radio. You are listening to the after hours podcast.

You're listening to after hours with Amy Lawrence, the people have spoken. And one score stands above the rest. Here is your TD of the week.

The Seattle Seahawks. First and 10 toss to Walker goes right side has a little running room. Parkinson out front. Here comes up the sideline. He's on the run 40 down to the 30. Are they going to catch him? I don't think so. 15, 10, 5, touchdown Seahawks.

74 yards. I feel like we're just coming together. We're showing everybody we're coming together and you know, we're working, um, you know, like I always say, we go back and watch film and, you know, prepare for the, for the next week. And I feel like we're just going to continue to grind and continue to get better. You have to agree that the Seattle Seahawks are a revelation in this season.

It's pretty phenomenal. The way that he Carol has been able to coach them up the way they've been able to draft and Kenneth Walker is part of that. Kenneth Walker, the third actually played his college football wake forest in Michigan state, highly decorated in 21, won the Walter camp and the dope Walker awards.

And the way that he has made the most of this opportunity even early on is really impressive. So your choice for TD of the week, his 64 yarder, uh, that helped to seal the Seahawks victory. Their fourth of the year, get them above 500.

They are the only team in the NFC West above 500, which is pretty crazy. At this point in the season, Kenneth has 411 yards and four touchdowns, including that one. Did I say 64 yards? I meant 74 yards.

Sorry about that. The call there was Steve Rabel on Seahawks radio. He's also got a handful of catches though. No touchdowns through the air.

Uh, I kind of feel like that's got to be in his future at some point. It's been a lot of fun to see what he can do right out of the gate for the Seahawks. And they're playing with wild abandon, right? They've got nothing to lose. They've got everything to gain.

There are zero expectations. There will start to be more attention on them. But Pete Carroll is one of the best coaches in the NFL.

You may not think so. And the last couple of years have been challenging. They've been in the midst of transition. I wouldn't call it rebuilding necessarily. I would say they kind of been reloading.

They've been, you know, deciding where to best spend their money. But for him to be able to get the most out of his players is never a question. That's, that's what he does. And he's been doing it for a long time, even when he has talent that doesn't necessarily measure up with other teams in his division, other teams in his conference.

They're always challenging. Last year they lost Russell Wilson for a stretch. He was injured and then when he came back, he came back too soon.

That was fairly obvious. But the connection there between Russ and Pete Carroll, it wasn't the same. And I think if you look back now, the general consensus is that the Seahawks were not interested in giving him the fat contract extension that he wanted, the contract extension that the Broncos gave to Russell Wilson. And while it's very early, certainly seems like Pete Carroll and John Schneider made the right call because at this point, maybe Russ does settle in when he gets healthy. Maybe there is some consistency, the adjustments they take, the offense starts to gel in Denver. But right now it's literally dead last in the league in points per game. And Russ didn't start this past weekend. Pete's been preaching about Geno Smith all along.

People scoffed. Team sport though, right? And he's got everybody all in. It's After Hours with Amy Lawrence. Thanks for voting for the TD of the Weeks, one of our weekly polls. And all of our polls originate on our show, Twitter, After Hours, CBS. So Aaron Rodgers, because speaking of big surprises, just the wrong kind of surprise, Aaron Rodgers and the Packers, they've dropped three games in a row, most recently to the Washington commanders and it does not get any easier coming up in week number eight. They've got a Sunday night date with the Buffalo Bills and it could be messy.

It could be ugly. Rodgers, similar sentiments to what we heard from Tom Brady on his Let's Go podcast on Monday. Not only did I listen to it live and I was sharing some of his sentiments on Twitter, but then we played some of those clips from Brady on our Monday night show. Well, now Aaron does his weekly appearance with Pat McAfee and he's saying a lot of the same stuff. It really jumped out at me, so bucks have dropped four or five, Packers have lost three in a row.

They're both below 500, which is definitely unexpected. And Pat asked Aaron, what did the Washington defense do that kept your offense so, so out of sync and off kilter? They didn't have to do anything. They played, they rushed four guys. They played the cover for, they sprinkled a couple weekend certs and a couple of man coverages and that was it.

So what do you think it is? They got good players, but as far as like schematically, what did they do? Well, I mean, they have a nice front. They have a lot of first rounders in that front. They got a good, you know, good linebackers, good on the back end.

But we had so many just mental errors and mistakes. It's just, it's not the kind of football we're used to playing. You can hear how annoyed he is. I don't know that he's frustrated, but you can hear how annoyed, how he is with the way they've been playing right now.

He does say that he's not worried. He believes the season can be spared, I guess is a good way to put it. The season's not over. And again, same thing from Tom Brady, really same thing from any team that's right there in the middle. There's so much mediocrity, especially in the NFC. You look at the NFC standings, it's so glaring. Three teams in the East division, Eagles, Giants, Cowboys have winning records.

The Vikings, hey now, is Kirk Cousins the most consistent quarterback out there? Kirk Cousins and the Vikings are five and one and the Seahawks are four and three. So out of 16 teams, only five of them have winning records, which means pretty much every team is still alive for a playoff spot. The entire NFC West. I mean the South, because the Bucks and Falcons are leading the division at three and four, that automatically means the Panthers and Saints are still alive. Maybe the Lions are out of it.

I mean, five teams out of 16 that are above 500, which means yes, the Packers and Bucks can still not just make the playoffs, but win their divisions. So Aaron then very plainly says this is up to the guys on the field. Yes, the coaches can try to put us in the right positions. They can drop a strong game plan, but ultimately it's up to us. We're the ones who are screwing up on the field. And I would say this is Aaron Rodgers laying down the gauntlet, or at least serving notice that stuff could change. Guys who are making too many mistakes, shouldn't be playing. Guys start cutting some reps. And maybe guys who aren't playing, give them a chance.

Guys who are making too many mistakes, bench their asses. I'm paraphrasing with Aaron Rodgers on Pat McAfee. He does say he trusts them and he believes that they can turn this around. As I say, the season can be spared, can be saved, but it's about us.

And I said this earlier, I truly believe it. It's one of my things about sports. It's actually one of the things I love about sports is that losing an adversity, expose what's underneath can either highlight the leadership and how strong that leadership is, how connected the locker room, how much they care, how they buy in. And certainly you need leaders, but you also need followers, or it can do the opposite.

It can expose your lack of leadership. Rodgers and Brady, future hall of famers, that's unquestioned. Last year they were the top two MVP candidates and Rodgers won a second in a row. What we've always known about these guys is that they have the ability to raise the level of play of everybody else around them. Is it all on them that their teams stink right now? No, not even remotely close, but it should be on their shoulders. And I believe that these are the kind of guys that will take it on themselves. They got a lead, and then the other guys have to be willing to follow their voices, their wisdom, their experience. Certainly their track records, but this is where the poo hits the fan, if you will. I suppose rubber meets the road is maybe a nicer way of saying it, but I think the poo is hitting the fan for the Bucks and the Packers, to be sure, as we head into week number eight.

Whoa, last weekend of October, whoa. All right, coming up, a snippet of our conversation with longtime NFL referee and CBS sports rules analyst, Gene Staratore. He's awesome. And yes, we talked about roughing the passer.

You are listening to the After Hours podcast. Brady working from the gun, Brady retreats. Looky, looky, here comes Brady.

You shall not pass. Surely they didn't call slinging him down. This will be a horrendous call. This is going to be a horrendous call. They're going to call Grady Jarrett for slinging down Brady on this sack. This is a, this is a horrendous, this is not the intention of the call.

Hits, misses, and messes. Time to talk football after hours with Amy Lawrence. It may have been the spark that lit a very explosive fire, and for that reason, that Grady Jarrett roughing the passer call against Tom Brady, Falcons, and Buccaneers going back to, what was it, week five, maybe week four.

Roughing the passer has been under a spotlight, under a microscope, since then. It's After Hours with Amy Lawrence on CBS Sports Radio. Of course, that was one of the main reasons that we wanted to get Gene Sterritor on the show.

He always responds when we call, and we spoke to him on Tuesday, and there's a lot that I talked to Gene about, so I'd encourage you to grab the podcast After Hours, AmyLawrence.com. But just to give you a taste, I actually asked Gene, oh, by the way, that was the call on Falcons radio, I should say that. I asked Gene before leading him, I wanted to leave it wide open, how he would describe the first seven weeks of this NFL season from a referee's perspective.

You know, I wouldn't ever get hyperbolic and say it's worse than any other year, or it's much greater or better than any other year, or anything like that. I think it does truly, I do truly feel like every year, it becomes a little more scrutinized, and I have to honestly admit, you know, these rules, analyst positions, where now we do have someone of some knowledge that is that are, you know, right, right in the real time moment to kind of elaborate a little more on something. In some ways, that's also drawn a little more attention to some of the judgment. I think what I've noticed from the officiating part of it, we've had roughing the passer situations over the last couple of weeks, right?

Sure. Ironically enough, roughing the passer is down, you know, around 30%. And a total amount of roughing when the passers called this year, the types of roughing that that may have been called or may, you know, may have not been called most, most of the ones we talked about here that have been called, what happens in the officiating world, and it's a, it's a process through this journey of a season and into the postseason. And it's something that the crews talk about week in and week out, I'm sure as, as a group of officials on a crew, if you have a play that you miss that, that's a rather obvious type of a mistake that you hope you don't make, but that the game's fast and these mistakes do occur, when you miss what I used to call with my crew and probably because my crossover between both sports, when I would tell my football crew, look, we can't miss layups, right? You can't miss the layup. If you miss the layup as an officiating, officiating crew in a game, that miss layup is truly you're going to lose any kind of hope in gaining any credibility on the 5050 plays that are going to have to throw out the rest of that day and all because you missed the layup.

Because you missed the layup, right? So you have to be aware of that. And, and that's how fine tuned and aware you need to continue to stay because one mistake like that in a game causes, you know, skepticism for these other really hard gray plays, you're not going to get any love either.

That also grows to the stuff, right? So if there's two or three of those plays that happen in a week or two weeks in a row, unfortunately. Now, the collective is before this game starts, right?

We're already thinking because of this attention on things that we have seen and thought, this is pretty obvious, they should get this replay doesn't need to come in, or we don't need to watch this in slow motion. That starts to happen again. So really, it's a long season. These things happen.

I think we went through a little bump like that here in the first month and a half or seven weeks of the season. And now the goal for the staff for the game, each crew is, listen, let's calm the waters, you know, become less, you know, less apparent here. And let's get the big stuff and get back to the game. But inevitably, you know, it rears its head. And it's part of the process. What are you trained to look for on roughing the passer? Well, that's even gotten more specific, even in the four years since I've been gone. But really what you're looking for in real time, which is I can't emphasize that enough.

I know we say that a lot of TV and naturally, you know, the people that really don't like the men and women in the stripes always say, oh, here he goes again about his fraternity. The speed of this is really of a nature that it's extremely difficult to explain that unless you are within 10 feet of that action and the speed of that action. It's not even close. If you're sitting in rows four or five, you think you're close to this. And the way it feels different, and it does, but it exponentially grows from the fifth row to the field field now. So in these windows of this two second timeframe that happens from when a defensive player gets at least within two yards or so of a quarterback who's in a passing posture, and your your tax with the past fumble situation is the ball gone. All these other elements coming while you are trying to officiate about two yards ahead of this individual that has the ball because you have to see that that defensive or that action prior to when it gets to that quarterback, there's body weight involved. It's does this person this human being moving very fast, very large person coming to a postured player who's the only player on a football field that ever gets hit standing still. Everyone else is moving when they get hit, but not this player I know we hear a lot of all the, you know, kind of the little phrases about how we're protecting this, this position. You have to remember that and put the human element in that.

That's why these protections are in there. And I can honestly say, when you are very screwed into the game and aware the game does slow down just like the players it's one of the beauties of officiating that same rush that an athlete who is really tied in and full focus gets. You also have to be very schooled on all the nuances that occur, and that concentration level can never lapse and it just can't stop for a second, you don't blink between a play. There's no reason to it's five seconds don't blink your eyes. It could be the difference between the past fumble, or where that hit occurs, but you also feel it.

Right. I mean, we all see it a little slower but then there's a feel the timing of it. Was it two steps or was it a step and a half. Now I get to do the beautiful thing now and rewind it and count one step to all I can't believe he didn't call that or she didn't call that can't you see the second foot just landed before the contact occurred and everybody goes, you know, we go crazy on on TV and the viewers that are unhappy with, you know, the call or the non call, but a lot of that's a feel. It's what makes the craft something that's extremely, you know, hard to do, and very hard to continue to do for a long period of time which is why you fall in love with it, then you become a ref nerd like me. We went through this process where the NFL overreacted and instituted replay for pass interference and we all know what happened to that gene it was very short lived, because it was not a good idea as a judgment call, would it be a bad idea then to try to install some type of review for roughing the passer.

I think we'd go down the same place, Amy. We're in the judgments we're in the, we're in the areas where a little bit of gray called or not called at times. There's also very good for the game. And I believe that as well this game can't be officiated by the letter of the law in every specific nuance, it can't the game would not be good. There is holding that's taking place some restriction. Does it materially affect the play. Does somebody gain an unfair advantage as a result of it in that art of those types of questions that officials answer in their mind that rapid succession comes the game, and you must keep that to where it is, in my humble opinion, I think when we go down the rabbit hole, I think we're opening up this. I knew that that is what Gene would say, opening up this can of worms because review for a judgment call, it doesn't work the NFL tried it, it was an unmitigated disaster which is why all of a sudden it just disappeared.

It's after hours with Amy Lawrence on CBS Sports Radio. I also asked Gene about the appearance. It didn't turn out that the two officials were asking Mike Evans for an autograph that's confirmed by Mike as well as the NFL, but the appearance of fraternizing with players and where he tells new officials to draw the line. And then in addition to that we we talked about some of the more challenging calls for him.

And also, I asked him for the first time. What happens when officials get it wrong. What penalties are there when officials screw up what he said to me about the number of calls for him if he got a certain number of calls wrong and a year it would be a really bad season. I think you'd be blown away by the number that he gave, but I'm not going to spoil any more of it. You need to check it out on our podcast, Gene Steritor with us here after hours, AmyLawrence.com. Just before we hit the top of the hour, I'm sure many of you saw the headline that a Moscow court rejected Brittany Griner's appeal. And so she while I think it was expected, she is now settling into this sentence that she's received on drug charges.

Trumped up though they may be. Certainly she's being made an example of this is not a result that should catch anybody off guard. There was no way that the Russian court was going to lighten her sentence or consider her appeal. And she's in another country where our rules and I know our justice system is not perfect.

It's far from it, but this was never going to be a fair procedure for Brittany. And I also heard this is makes me much sadder that the conversations about a prisoner swap because it's heard it's a retired journalist that the Americans or the United States government would like to bring home that Americans would like to bring home. Right now the conversations over any type of prisoner swap have completely died out.

And I guess that doesn't really surprise me either considering the US role in supporting Ukraine in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine. And so right now there's been no communication going back to the summertime. So just really sad for her whether or not you like Brittany or you follow the WNBA just one of those life situations that is tragic and is painful and she's in jail away from her family and it could be years before anything changes.

So thinking of her and want to pray for her and her family as she's in Russia plus this retired journalist who's also over there and is incarcerated. All right. We'll talk to you tonight. Survive your Wednesday. It's after our CBS Sports Radio. Boom.