Jeremy Fowler reveals the "surprise" QB in this year's NFL Draft

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Find out how to bring your ideas to life at dell.com slash welcome to now. This is the Rich Eisen Show. I understand this league changes and there's so many things that go into it and we're not going to play forever. Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. The question is, is the Warriors franchise as we know it and have come to know it in a resting home?

You know, you don't get to stay on top forever. Earlier on the show, host of the Straight Line Podcast, Ryan Leaf, ESPN senior NFL reporter Jeremy Fowler. Coming up, Michigan defensive lineman Chris Jenkins Jr. And now, it's Rich Eisen. Our number two, the Rich Eisen Show is on the air. The Leaf family is heading off to LAX and we are coming in for a safe landing to start our number two right here.

844-204-rich number to dial one week from today. It's the NFL Draft in Detroit, Michigan. We will be in the midst of day two of our three-day residency with Roku and the Roku Channel in the draft city of Detroit. I will be on the air on NFL Network on Thursday night, Friday night and all day Saturday with you. It is the honor of my lifetime to be out there for an NFL Draft for a 21st time involved with the NFL Network and NFL Media Group. And I'll be doing gavel-to-gavel coverage. Pick one to pick last.

That's the way I roll and I can't wait to have you with all of us all next week long. Speaking of ESPN, which will be all over the draft as well. This gentleman has given me quite a bit of deep dive reading over the last 48 hours to be honest with you. Because it was a couple of days ago his NFL Draft Tears annual piece came out to talk about how all of the evaluators that he speaks to at the combine and all year round. Leading up to the draft as well. How they take a look at all of these quarterbacks available in the draft. And then he along with Seth Wickersham and Don Van Natta Jr., two of our favorites on the program. Had quite the piece out there as to why Bill Belichick is going to be technically with Pat McAfee on draft night.

As opposed to maybe in the Atlanta Falcons draft room. Jeremy Fowler of ESPN joining us here on the program. A lot of writing for you Jeremy.

Thank you for the reading. Hey Rich, great to be with you. It's that time of year. You know how it is.

I know that. Let's start with the one that everyone was talking about all day yesterday. The triple byline piece you were a part of with Seth Wickersham and Don Van Natta as to why Belichick did not get the job in Atlanta. Do you want to walk me through your reporting on why he did not get the job in Atlanta?

Jeremy? Well certainly it was a long process. It started really with Bill Belichick meeting with Arthur Blank for a first interview on a yacht. Somewhere exotic around the Grenadines or wherever it was.

I forget offhand. But it was a situation where he came out of that meeting feeling pretty good. Talking to people close to Belichick. It seemed like there was some momentum. That momentum shifted over time where the people with the Falcons front office essentially voted Bill, as we were told, off the island. You know, just because they kind of had a straw poll of sorts. Several people were involved in the process after they had really had an extensive interview process. Interviewed more than a dozen candidates.

Raheem Morris, they were blown away by him. So he was clearly the favorite. They had some other coordinators like Mike McDonald, Bobby Slowik and Houston who made quite the impression. And so Belichick really wasn't strong in the mix after those results. And you couple that with our reporting on Robert Kraft, Patriots owner and the correspondence he had, the chats he had with Arthur Blank, the Falcons owner. Those are two owners who are very close and talk often and speak in candor. And so certainly the allegation we make is that Kraft expressed or conveyed some untrustworthiness of Belichick in that process. Any details as to what Belichick was untrustworthy about, Jeremy?

Well, you know, certainly that's a great question. And, you know, we didn't have the exact wording there. But I think over time, you know, it's been fairly well documented that the relationship, you know, had its cracks in the surface, in the foundation. And, you know, it's one of those things where it seems like trust had been a little broken over time, probably on both sides, you know. And so that was something it was tough to reconcile.

But the exact wording of what was said, still unclear, except for the fact there was a note in the story about how it was conveyed that you won't often have a warm conversation with Bill Belichick, if at all. It's just that that's the nature of it. And Arthur Blank and the Falcons wanted something more collaborative. That seemed to have been the trend in the hiring process. This cycle, owners clearly targeted either young up-and-comers or offensive or defensive coordinators who could step in and work closely with the GM.

In this case, Terry Fontenot in Atlanta, be collaborative, have sort of a atmosphere that's inclusive. And it's, you know, our reporting said that Belichick was certainly open to that and open to working with Fontenot. But, you know, the belief is that he has done a job a long time for a certain way.

And it's hard to stray from that when you're used to doing it that way. And that might have been a problem for some in the building. Well, Jeremy Fowler here from ESPN on The Rich Eisen Show. I was waiting to see in the piece, and I'm happy now to have you here so I can ask you any details from the Belichick camp on how long Bill would have been a head coach for the Atlanta Falcons or any of the teams that could have hired him this year. And I understand his age is advanced for hiring a head coach in the NFL for sure. But just the notion that he would only give a couple years or only wants to be there long enough to break Don Shula's record kind of doesn't sound like him to be straight up.

And I'm just wondering, did either of you or your colleagues ask anyone in the Belichick camp for details on what Bill's plans would be if he's hired? Certainly if next year he's in the mix for that gig. Yeah, and that's a good point because I do feel like, and we heard from several teams who had mentioned that his age was a factor when they were evaluating all candidates across the entire league.

And it's probably an easy out in some ways. Maybe it's just a way to say you don't want to hire him. And we had a source saying with the Falcons that if he was 63 years old, maybe it was a different story. We didn't hear an exact timeline for Belichick, but I do remember talking to a source close to him who said that he's pretty rejuvenated. He's in good shape.

Like there aren't any health issues. Like this is a guy who wants to coach. So it wasn't really like I don't think he went into this with a ceiling necessarily. We didn't get a sense of that, that it was two years, three years, five years. I think that's more just teams forecasting that it's going to be difficult. It's going to be more of an unknown variable than, say, the Chargers with Jim Harbaugh, who's around 60 years old. You get at least a runway of 10 years in theory where Belichick, it'd be harder to get that. And I do think that's in part why it'd be a better fit with a team that it will be a contender now. And I don't get the sense of Belichick from our sources looked at Atlanta as a true contender right now on paper. It was an intriguing job, no doubt, but it needed some work where, you know, if Philly had opened, I think he definitely would have taken that one if it was available or offered, which we don't know. You know, but teams with history, they're contending now that could be open in the future, whether it's Dallas or, you know, Chicago or some of those teams like that could make some sense in that regard where you have a clear window or you need to win now. Well, in terms of that, and then we'll move on to the NFL draft and your reporting there in advance of the draft, Jeremy Fowler here on The Rich Eisen Show. You did start, along with your colleagues in this piece, start talking about potentially next year and how that could have maybe happened this year with some of the teams and the teams that are the most salacious are pretty much the entire NFC East. And so you're reporting on why the commanders didn't even look at Belichick is because Josh Harris decided during the playing season last year they weren't going in that direction.

Is that, is that, that's the case on that? Well, I don't know if they, I don't know that they telegraphed that, but it was the case that, you know, they were looking for sort of a new era of Washington, new ideas. You know, somebody that they clearly identified Adam Peters pretty early in the process as a strong GM candidate. And once they interviewed him, they got sold on him.

You know, he's kind of got, you know, a young man with an exciting vision. I think that played a factor. They wanted to get the GM part done first, but they also did really want new ideas, collaboration. Some of those things we mentioned earlier that that was a factor for Washington. And so, you know, I don't know that they ruled him out at first off the bat, but it just sort of trended that way where, you know, they had a conversation, looked in, you know, inquired about Belichick a little bit, but we never got the impression in our reporting at all that it was serious. Really Atlanta was the one job where he was considered a viable option at one time.

You know, Washington, it was probably more of a courtesy call, you know, based on what we know. But Magic wanted Belichick? You heard that? Well, certainly there is some interest there from Magic. Yeah.

Magic knows what rings look like, you know, and what it takes. And that one jumped out of the page at me. And so Philadelphia, how would you term their reach out to Belichick that you wrote about in the piece, Jeremy? Well, there was some correspondence there. I mean, you know, Howie Roseman, we quoted in the story, you know, that he had said that he checked in on Belichick after he was let go. Well, retired, essentially moved on from the Patriots, however, they couched it.

Yes, sir. He was moving on, essentially, and they were finding a new coach and how he reached out just to see how he was doing. Now, you know, the contents of that conversation could have gone a couple of different directions. You know, it's the way Howie told it to us that it was not some sort of job situation at all.

It was more just checking in with them. But certainly our indications is that, you know, Philly, like any team would, you know, after the season, they're reviewing their entire operation. And, you know, they're looking at, you know, what would their options be in the future, whether they were to hire a head coach now or down the road.

But, you know, they ultimately decided to stick with Nick Sirianni. So I do believe those evaluations were going on. And, you know, things that didn't make the story is I do remember talking to a couple of different assistant coaches who were getting word that Belichick was putting together a staff in light of having interest in some of those bigger jobs, whether Dallas was going to open or not, whether Philly was going to open. He was sort of preparing the runway a little bit and getting some staff members together just in case. And so clearly some of those jobs, I think, were on the forefront there for him and his viability. Were they the usual suspects from the New England days or anybody else? Did you hear any names?

I would say a mix. You know, we reported in the story that, you know, Matt Patricia, Joe Judge, Josh McDaniel, some of those names were certainly kicked around as options. And what was told to me from a source is that, you know, Belichick knew that Atlanta was a job that certainly was intriguing.

They can win there, but it wasn't an instant contender. This is going to take a little time. They didn't have a quarterback yet at the time, although they would ultimately map out Kirk Cousins as their option. But they had some work to do. And so if he's going to turn it around quickly, he needed people that he could trust. That's a big deal for him. We've seen that over the years of him bringing people back into the building with the Patriots when they left or had failed head coaching stints.

And so, you know, he values that and believes that they can help him win. So that was sort of the thinking there. Last one for you on this and then we'll move to the draft. The general assessment from so many after reading your piece, Jeremy, along with Wickersham and Van Natta, obviously, is that Belichick is going to loom over the entire NFC East proceedings of the 2024 season. Do you think that's a fair assessment?

Well, how could it not? And I will say I do think getting a year away could help his candidacy where the two thousand twenty three season was so raw for him coming off like it was just really ugly and the offense got worse. And even though it didn't look like it could get much worse than it did.

And so it just, you know, the Patriots way looked a little damaged. And we had sources even from people that were involved in that saying that that felt and was indeed true. And so but now he's got a year to step away. He can do some media, which we see with the Pat McAfee show that he was doing yesterday and the NFL draft that he's going to be involved in. You know, he's going to speak at places like University of Nebraska, Washington, kind of doing the college circuit. Like, I think the rebrand could be strong, even though depending on who you talk to, you know, we've talked to sources who think he won't be an NFL head coach again. But I've talked to, you know, people pretty prominently in that coaching industry that say he'll at least get a couple strong interviews and probably will be a viable candidate, you know, because people will come around on what he's done. And especially if he gets himself out there and does some of these media things, it's like, you know, maybe you get to see a different side of him personality wise than what you're used to on the podium, which, you know, isn't the most open. So I think there's certainly there's a chance and he's going to be more intrigued and have a plan for some of these jobs coming forward that that have like history.

I'm told that will be important to him. Of course, the Giants, you know, like we don't know what's going to happen there, but it's certainly some history there between the two. Well, and obviously what happens with the Giants depends on what they do in the draft. And that's what I'd love to turn to, because honestly, I had the booking staff reach out to you the minute I saw your piece about scouts and executive stacking 11 quarterbacks had no idea I'd spend the first 12 minutes of my time with you talking about Bill Belichick and what happened with his job search. So what surprised you anything talking to these scouts and executives about one of the deepest quarterback draft classes we've seen in a while, Jeremy?

Yes. So not a lot of earth-shattering surprises in the sense that we knew Caleb Williams was probably the top pick. I would say there's probably a big separation from teams I talked to, you know, pulling nearly two dozen scouts and coaches and execs. You know, they see Caleb Williams, most people, at least as a star. You know, like he's got the qualities, you know, the comps are pretty clear. Aaron Rodgers, a little bit of Russell Wilson, a little bit of Patrick Mahomes. Those are the names that come up for him when you talk to teams.

So that's there. I knew he was the top guy, but I'd say the separation there was surprising. And then I would say the biggest surprise, even though it's not necessarily a surprise because he was gaining momentum, but just J.J. McCarthy, teams really are sold on him. I can't tell you how many cases I had made for me as to why he's going to go high, you know, where usually teams are sort of hiding that. You know, it's funny, like last year with Will Levis, you know, just talk about, is he going to go really high in the draft?

And he ends up going to the second round. And so I've had at least one team bring up, well, is that the case with McCarthy? Is this too good to be true with some of this hype? But then I've heard from too many teams that, like, look, they're going to be shocked if he doesn't go in the top six just because of all that he offers. You know, he's got high level traits that are better than what you would see from a normal, quote, game manager because he didn't throw the ball a lot of Michigan. But they just feel like, you know, it was more a function of the Jim Harbaugh offense than it was his ability. In fact, he wanted more and more and didn't quite get it on the field on game days.

But there, you know, there's he can do more than than he showed. And I think teams recognize that and see. It's funny when like in March and April, the coaches get involved more and they see a player that like they sit back and can say, wow, he's ready. You know, he's a guy in a pro system. I heard from multiple scouts that he had like one of the best pro days they've ever seen. These are veteran scouts, usually pro days.

You know, do you put a lot of stock in them? But in this case, teams did. I mean, they were pretty wowed by his pro day because he didn't throw enough in college where they just needed to see it in person in this case.

And they did. Well, I mean, it's interesting what a few things you just said right there is that if if he wanted more and more and voiced it to coaching staff, put more on my arm, and they didn't give it to him and he knew he was going to potentially go into the draft this year and he said nothing and was just a great teammate and leader and a national champion. I imagine that that is a metric and not a flag that needs to be paid attention to. That said, Jeremy, in all the years of you doing this, tier one, tier two, three, four, five, is this the first tier two and a half you've ever created for J.J. McCarthy? Probably.

I hadn't been doing this all that long, but I didn't. Two and a half. He was a cut above the tier three guys. And that was pretty clear in the voting, but he wasn't quite with Jaden Daniels and Drake May.

Drake, who has probably the highest ceiling of anybody, maybe a lower floor than, say, a Jaden Daniels or some of these others. But certainly the feeling is he was clearly in that tier two with Jaden. McCarthy was close. Some had him in tier two, some had him in tier three.

So I sort of split the difference, you know, but a funny anecdote. You mentioned that about not getting to throw enough at Michigan and maybe not making a big stink about it. I was told, like, with, say, things like the red zone packages, you know, or two minute offenses that maybe where he didn't get to throw as much in games. He would work on that extensively with the coaches and after practices to get as many reps as he could behind the scenes where he felt like, OK, when I get to the next level, I still prepared for all that, even more so than I would have if I just stood idle. So that was kind of his way of finding a solution for that and then being patient on the field. And then when he was asked to throw, he did well. So those are all the things that teams have investigated, you know, and at his pro day, several teams asked for different styles of throwing.

Can you layer the ball or can you throw from different platforms? Things that are usually like empty calories at pro days and just for show. But they actually wanted to see that from him because they just didn't get to in college. How about that? Yeah.

Another interesting fact. An AFC scout saying that they think Drake May could run for four to five hundred yards a year, huh? Drake May. That's not Daniels. Drake May could do that. Yeah.

Yeah. There's they see like kind of a scrappy runner, like willing to go and take contact. And there's definitely some Josh Allen there. It's the arm strength teams don't see enough of Josh Allen and Justin Herbert. I know there's a two good comps for him because of the size and the athleticism. The arm is good.

It's not considered like next level, you know, galaxies above everybody else. Good like Allen and Herbert. But it's definitely good enough. But that's the only that's why I put Josh Allen with less arm strength is a good comp for him. And you get a lot of Carson Wentz comps for for Drake May, you know, which I mean, Wentz was the number two overall pick and had a good early run before injury. So there's there's a lot of intrigue there with, you know, especially if you can give him time, like if he can go somewhere in city, you're probably be ideal for him. More so than most because, you know, they want to work on his footwork or some of the mechanics that they didn't love or, you know, not bailing to try to run all the time and instead sit in the pocket and process everything and throw like they feel like you can do that.

He just didn't do that consistently enough. So they want to see that. And lastly, Michael Pennix Jr. in tier three, most frequent scout exec comps to with a better arm, you add parenthetically and Jordan Love. By the way, I'm all in. If I can get Jordan Love with Michael Pennix, you know what I mean? Pretty good. So what what's what's the status in your mind of Pennix? My colleague from NFL Network and Fox in Peter Schrager has him dropping completely out of the first round in his mock draft. And then there's others that say he won't go past 13 with the Raiders or or maybe even 16 for Seattle if they want to go there. I don't know.

What do you think? Well, that's what I'm trying to figure out. And it's fascinating. And he is a wild card in that regard. Now, I've talked to multiple teams picking in like the early to mid second round. I asked him point blank, do you think Pennix will be there when you pick? And they said, probably not. I've taught enough teams to think that he's got a good chance to go first round.

Certainly, I've taught a team's late in the first round. I think he could get some action there, especially if a team trades it back into the late first. So you can get a quarterback for that fifth year option. Contractual control for five years. But it's not a slam dunk.

And, you know, the medical stuff is there. Most teams I've talked to don't think it will sink him, though, completely with, you know, the knee issues he's had and the shoulder issues. They feel pretty good about it, that whoever drafts him will need a plan for sort of maintenance purposes, but it's not going to be some sort of catastrophic thing that will sink him. So it's really going to depend on preference, you know, like the Raiders. The Raiders are fascinating because you hear Pennix come up with the Raiders and you talk to some teams, at least they at least wonder if that's a connection. But it's 13 too early for him. Same with Bo Nix. Is he going to sneak in somewhere like the teams that need quarterbacks are picking in the early teens or somewhere in there. Is that too early for Pennix or Nix?

But then if you wait to the second round, you might not get them. So that's sort of the cost analysis the teams will have to make where, as we know, quarterbacks get overdrafted a little bit, and that's probably going to be the case this year. Jeremy, really appreciate it. Not just the reading that you've given me over the last 48, 72 hours, but the time here. Greatly appreciated. Great stuff.

And I'll see you in Detroit. Anytime, Rich. Appreciate it.

Have a great trip. You bet. You got an at J Fowler ESPN. You should follow him and see all his material right here on The Rich Eisen Show. Fascinating.

So, you know, we're just trying to advance the story best we can, not just for the draft, but for those listening on the radio. As you can see on Roku, there's a new tree coming. So there's that. That's the thing. From my angle, looking at you, I can't see any of that. But then when I look at the monitor over here and I see your ISO, oh yeah, gigantic new tree.

It's in a wheelbarrow and it's placed exactly in the only spot that can be seen over my shoulder. And there's a huge plaza out there. It's monster big. All right. We'll take a break here. So much to discuss and including, you know, a lot of conversation about what the Patriots are going to be like without Belichick after all the years he was there.

What about Seattle without Pete Carroll? Some fascinating material coming out on that front. Yeah, you've been teasing us. Yeah. And Joe Shane, the general manager of the New York Giants, has spoken.

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Go for it. That's one. Here we go. That's two. That's three. By the way, that's four. Those are all Duke NFL footballs. Just wanted everyone to know that.

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It's getting bad. You got seven for first seven. Good enough.

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Call clickgrainger.com or just stop by. Lots to talk about right there from Jeremy Fowler. So, listen. Belichick having Josh McDaniels at his side. That is a win. That is tough to turn down, man.

That is a win. Now, the other two Schmohawks. I know you don't like Judge and Patricia. I'm not a fan of those guys. Good use of Schmohawks.

Thank you. But if you don't have them in a position of McDaniels, they're not Schmohawks. They're guys who know a ton of football. True. And can really help coach and extend the Belichick brand. That is a tough tandem to turn down. Belichick and Josh McDaniels as your coach and offensive coordinator. That's tough. That's tough. I mean, if I'm an owner, I'd be like, I gotta think real hard about that.

And they were pretty good. How about Magic saying we should have Belichick? And if you have Magic Johnson in your owner's suite. And they're like, hey, hire this guy.

And how do you not at least listen to him? And I know it's football, but you can't just say, what does this basketball guy know when you hire Bob Myers? Also, Magic is supremely successful businessman. I mean, he knows a lot. I know we have fun about his Twitter account here. We call it chat EMJ or EMJSPN, you know, because he just tweets the obvious stats. Let's see what Magic did last night.

But probably nothing because the Lakers didn't play. Oh no, he was attending a conference in Dallas. Him saying we should talk to Belichick, they should have at least talked to Bill Belichick. Right? The only team that officially interviewed him was the Atlanta Falcons.

And then Jeremy's report said the second interview was mostly out of respect. Yeah, I believe the boat that he, I mean, talk about. Arthur Blank's super yacht. Super yacht off of Anguilla. Yeah.

Yeah. He was moored off of Anguilla, which means Bill had to schlep him, schlep all the way down and hang on the boat. For a four hour meet and greet. And then get off. And then leave.

And then do any fishing. I mean, what do we do? That's like the worst White Lotus episode ever. It's not great. You don't fish on me.

It's not great. The Bill Lotus. The Bill Lotus. Man, I mean, that is a. And you bet he should loom over the NFC East this year. You guys haven't read it. That article is so fascinating. It is fascinating because it's a lot of inside, it's a lot of inside baseball. And we kind of got what Bill was making for the first time really ever.

I forgot to even ask him that. A million bucks a year is the figure. And which was kind of confusing that the report that they had that Bob Kraft would, in a way, talk Arthur Blank out of hiring him since Kraft would have been off the hook for partially about 25 mil? Yeah, it would offset. It would offset. Yeah.

So he's just going to eat 25 mil so Bill doesn't work anymore? Because the guy was a jerk and an ornery? No, I just, I think you can agree. It just wasn't working anymore there, man. I totally am with that.

It wasn't working anymore. I said it two years ago. And it was time for everyone. I think it was time for Bill. But Bill is not done coaching, man. I would, he said that there were some people who think he's not going to be a coach in the NFL anymore. That would just be because owners feel that his time has passed, which I think is ridiculous.

And if he comes back, if he walks into an owner's suite and says, I'm coming with my wife, half century of institutional knowledge, and I'm happy to work in your system, and they hammer out the parameters in the same way that you're seeing right now, parameters being hammered out at a certain criminal trial that's going on in New York. Like, this is what we can talk about. This is not what we can talk about. You hammer out the parameters of what our relationship is going to be and we're not able to cross these lines.

We're not able to cross these lines and we both agree what it is. And, um, and you're comfortable with it. I'm comfortable with it. And you're bringing Josh McDaniels.

Sign me up. And I know a lot of people are like, oh, he blew up the Raiders. Oh, he was terrible in Denver. We're talking about the offensive coordinator. Look what Mac Jones looked like his first year.

And there's a reason for that. And the reason why he didn't look that way the next couple of years is because Josh wasn't there and who was there. And all due respect to Bill O'Brien at that point in time, Mac Jones just needed a frigging hug and the two bills weren't providing it, I don't think. Well, maybe O'Brien more than, than, than Belichick. Maybe.

Neither guys seem huggy to me, but huggy bear. So. And here we are. That would be tough to turn down for me, but I've spent time around Bill, but just as a, as a broadcaster, not as a, okay, winning and losing, you know, football games.

You kind of said this early on. Bill does media this year that you've seen the clips from Pat yesterday. Everyone's going to be like, Oh, this guy's awesome. And we love him.

And he's so funny and engaging and great storyteller. Where was this bill when he was coaching? Oh, he's been there, but that's him. I know that nobody really knows that.

I think the general gen pop doesn't really know that. And I think they're going to really see the real bill this year and really love the guy and all of a sudden 20, 25 hits. And where is it? Where's he going to be? As long as Bill can travel with six Lombardi trophies behind him, like he was in the background. Great view. I mean, nice view.

Nice view. And so the conversation has been nonstop about the post Belichick era in New England and what that's going to look like. And that's understandable. I mean, Bill's been there since 2000 and put six trophies in the case. Not a lot of folks are talking about what the post Pete Carroll era is going to look like.

I mean, Pete put one in the case, came so close to putting two in a row in the case. And we wouldn't be talking about the Chiefs going back to back first team to do it since the early ought Patriots, because the Seahawks were going to do it, having built a dynastic team there. I know we don't refer to them as a dynasty because they only won once. But Pete Carroll and what he built in Seattle, significant. And I know Seahawks fans are incredibly prideful about that as well they should, because prior to that, Mike Holmren took them to one Super Bowl.

They didn't win it. There were some nice, terrific, fun years with Chuck Knox and the old kingdom and what have you, but no Super Bowls there. Some terrific players and some history, but not like Pete Carroll. So what's it going to look like without Pete Carroll? Mike McDonald is the new head coach there.

Young guy in his mid to late thirties, right? And he came from the Ravens staff. He's a Harbaugh guy. Right.

Okay. Jim hired him from John to be a defensive coordinator there. He was terrific there. Aiden Hutchinson blossomed there and John's like, I need him back.

Jim's like, okay. I assume that was the way it went. Brought him back. Mike McDonald looked terrific there as the defensive coordinator for Baltimore. And now Seattle's like, that's the guy.

So what's going to be different? Obviously Pete had a loose facility and locker room there. And by that, I mean, there was one video, I believe where the Seahawks, remember that video of the Seahawks social media group had a camera and players went up and spoke to the camera as they were coming off the practice field. And I think it was DK Metcalf came running through.

And then Pete came on in a scooter zipping by and it looked like a circus like wee coming through. And I've been around a Pete Carroll team. The one I saw in Munich was coming off a four game win streak and they were loose and having fun, but you know, obviously being serious about the game.

And Pete obviously knows how to run a championship team. Well, word is out now in Seattle of the first couple of ways that it's different is the basketball net that was in the practice facility is gone. Oh no. Well, that's one thing. I mean, ping pong tables have been removed and things of that nature. But the one thing that caught my ear came from Leonard Williams, who's late in the Pete Carroll era, defensive lineman.

I believe he arrived there in recent years, as we all know. Even talking about an empty wall in the facility on which there used to be photographs of the championship days of Pete Carroll. And those photographs of those days of going to NFC championship games and winning the Super Bowl and Legion of Boom are gone.

Give a listen. My impressions with the team and with the coaches and with Mike as an overall feeling, you can just tell there's a sense of urgency right now. And in a way, that's kind of bringing everyone closer together. That's making everyone, you know, be so locked in and like in meetings and in the weight room on the field. It's like you could just tell there's a different sense of like everyone's like locked in on a different level.

And I remember the first day we came into the team meeting, Mike pointed out that, you know, there's empty walls in the in the hallways and things like that. And, you know, for a person like me, I think that made me really excited and I hope I made the rest of the guys excited because, you know, we're obviously going to respect tradition in the history of the Seahawks, but I think it's given us like a clean foundation to like create whatever we want to be. We're not chasing to like be like any other team that's been here before. We want to create our own identity.

And listen, I first of all, like hearing Leonard Williams saying that that the team's close and there's a sense of urgency and that that's good. But how does one respect the past by removing it? And I don't get taking these photographs down off the wall. As if what it's I'm kind of preventing kind of going the other way.

Well, I kind of like hold on a second. This is Seahawks reporter just put a little more meat on the bones before we have a conversation. Seahawks reporter for ESPN's NFL Nation, Brady Henderson, adding, saying that the hallways adjacent to the indoor practice facility had a dozen pictures on it.

Sherman's tip, the famous tip, as you know, against San Francisco, chancellors pick six against Carolina, Carol Schneider, Paul Allen celebrating the Lombardi Trophy, Russell Wilson teary-eyed after the 2014 NFC championship game. How is that in any way, shape or form a distraction or anything other than additive? Removing it means you're going to create your own time here.

Yeah. Well, and I don't understand that would come from a coach that came from Michigan. Now I know college and pros are different and tradition might be different. What if he showed up in New England? I mean, what if Gerard Mayo started ripping Belichick and Brady photographs off the wall? Now it's different there because he was part of it.

He played and he coached. My first thought when I saw this was good thing he's not the Green Bay Packers head coach, because the carpenters inside of that facility would be working overtime with the back ends of their hammers. What does that mean? That's an empty wall. Fill it with your own stuff, but we're going to still respect the Legion of Boom? Fill it with your own highlights and memories. But why don't you just say we can be better than these guys on the wall that preceded this? What do you need them there as a reminder of what maybe you'll never be?

But you could say that about any team anywhere at all. These are the guys that are doing it. I kind of like it. But I don't understand why you're taking a look at what used to be here, that you're the one replacing that.

You want to strive for that. But it's got nothing to do with anything that you're doing here. Sometimes we're weighed down by the ghosts, man. What ghosts?

First of all. What do you mean what ghosts? The ghosts that were looking at you every single day being like, you're never going to be us. You're never going to be us.

You'll never be as good as us. All those guys are gone. So take down Brady's photographs in New England? But you just said the difference. So then name another one. They only won one. We're not talking about the Packers and the Steelers and the Cowboys and the Patriots. Ask any Seattle Seahawks fan what that era represented for them and that one does represent you. You're erasing it because you're sitting here and saying you create your own.

Isn't one more attainable than four, five, six? Honestly, I mean, did Iberfluce say take down all those pictures of Walter Payton with the Lombardi Trophy? Take that down. I mean, what if he showed up in Dallas? That's a lot of pictures of the takedown.

What are you going to take all the names off the circle to like? Actually, they probably should do that in Dallas because they are weighed down by the ghosts of 30 years ago. I don't understand how anybody walks through a building with that and goes, you know what? We're going to take this stuff down and I'm going to use it as a motivational ploy. It's just like you're your own man. You're your own organization.

You're your own setup. And the fact that these photographs are on the wall is not a ghost that is clanking around, you know, and haunting you. Certainly if the guy who helped put those pictures on the wall is supposedly still part of the organization, like what are we doing? I was surprised to hear that. Like to look at the history of your team and the success and go, that's an impediment, is kind of weird to me.

That is weird. I agree with you. I agree. As opposed to we're going to be better than those or we're going to continue that tradition or we're going to have a new way of winning just like the old guys did. And it kind of surprises me. Did John Harbaugh say, take all those pictures of Brian Billick down when he showed up there and this is the guy who's staff he's from, Michigan.

I mean, there are ghosts everywhere. If you look at it that way, that was just kind of weird, which makes me also think was the Pete Carroll transition not as hunky dory as we make it seem like that's what I'm sitting here thinking about. Seems like Pete still wanted the coach. Well, that's true, but it's not like he's lording over the proceedings just by smiling with Paul Allen on the wall.

Is he? That's the way I took it. It's just kind of weird.

But I do, I'm happy for Seahawks fans to hear that Leonard Williams is just like, yeah, we get it. We're locked in. We're with a sense of urgency around it. Great. It's your new way of doing it.

Why does it have to erase the immediate predecessor and their successes? It's just kind of weird. I'm with you on that.

I kind of like it. 844-204 Rich, number to dial here on the Rich Eisen Show. Phone calls and Chris Jenkins coming up next.

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Our house is a mess. Come on in. I'm Amber Whalen, internet comedian and host of your new favorite podcast, Fly on the Whalen. Okay, that's pretty presumptuous to assume that this is going to be their favorite podcast by the way. Anyway, that wasp that you just heard interrupt me is my husband. And co-host, Benjamin Whalen. Listen in as we discuss relationships and keeping our sweet baby kid alive. Fly on the Whalen, wherever you listen. All right, we're back here on the program. Phone lines are lighting up. We'll take some calls.

Chris Jenkins, one of the top defensive tackles available in the draft. He'll be joining us top of hour number three. We also have Joe Shane, the general manager of the Giants talking. So much to discuss. Oh, yeah.

Sounds like they're open for business too. Why not? Everyone's going to be saying that. So you would have, let's just say the Patriots went outside the family and hired somebody and they start taking down all the pictures of Brady and Belichick and Gronk. Bob Kraft wouldn't allow it. So this is ownership. This is ownership empowering Mike McDonald to do this.

So that would never happen with Pittsburgh, Dallas, New England. Because there's multiple ones. Is it just because it's just one, you can take it down? Maybe. And I also think there's a lot of stuff behind the scenes that went on with those teams that we don't really know about. I can't imagine that. Senseless to me.

It is, isn't it? I just find it weird. It's just a way to look at it. Like you're walking down the hallways and seeing, you know, all the stuff that's happened here and you're like, you know, let's remove it. Let's just, we're starting from scratch. Would you rather see yourself on the wall?

What if you haven't done anything to deserve to make the wall? Miami does that stuff every week. They put the photo of the day on the elevator.

No, I understand that. They'll tear down pictures of Dan Marino and Don Shulin. Jets on hard knocks.

They're like redoing that whole wall last year. I mean, come on. He should have taken the Jets job.

So he took down the picture of Chad Pennington, beat Nicole's. We can't walk around with the echoes of Jericho Cotchery. You can write that down. Echoes of Cotchery. By the way, that was the flip side to Sounds of Silence. Yes. Echoes of Cotchery. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Wasn't the beginning. It's funny. Simon and Garfunkel were like, who's Cotchery? Why are we singing about that? We've had some really good ones in the last week.

Yeah, the Echoes of Cotchery. We can't handle that. Back on the Rich Eisen Show. Radio network.

Just chatting with everybody here. We have a conundrum. Wow. Oh no. What? Oh no.

No. We have a conundrum. We don't like great words.

It's kind of weird to call it a conundrum. We don't like cookies. And I'm not talking about Suzy and Amy being here. Suzy Schuster, Amy Trask, Daniel Jeremiah is their guest, what the football will post later today. DJ.

DJ. And usually they bring baked treats. I think Suzy brought donuts. They're always good for that.

I'm not talking about that. They're always good for that. I'm talking about the Tupperware that was filled with cookies today when I first arrived. I'm like, who put it here?

Rich Eisen Show, jack of all trades, RJ Herrera brought this in. Yes. And as you could see, those cookies look great.

They do look really good. And no offense to RJ at all. But when I heard it was he who brought these in, I'm like, did he bake these himself? Because he can do everything around here. RJ does literally everything around here. There's nothing he doesn't do or can't do around here. It's true.

Okay. He can't take a 60 yard fill go, I know that. I'm just wondering if he baked these. And then my question is, if he didn't, do you put them in a Tupperware to make it look like you did?

Maybe he wants to keep a couple at home because you haven't been paying attention. RJ does this about once a month. He gets the first time I've seen a Tupperware first in Tupperware, though, yeah, he's brought that in before. I've not seen it. No, no.

You're the only one who's seen it. Yep. I mean, like, if he didn't bake them and he bought them in a store and brings it right like a grocery store and brings in grocery store cookies, which is nice, it's not homemade.

Nice. All due respect to all the grocery stores out there. Oh, good.

All the chain stores out there with their baked goods and their bakeries and what have you. With all due respect. It's not the same.

Is it a is it a foul to put it in something that makes it look like you baked them? 100%. And it's not like RJ to make it seem like I'm going to make people think I made them myself. But that's what it's implied. That's implied. Well, I remember when you brought us cookies and oh, wait, who, you, uh, me, you never brought us cookies. So, excuse me. Excuse me.

Excuse me. I'm going to say something. I'm going to say something that is out of character for me.

I'm going to say something that's out of character for me. I believe every two weeks you get cookies. That's a good point. You get cookies direct deposited every two weeks. That's not the same thing. Thank you, Rich. Okay. True.

Cookies. I know that this is not a good way for this conversation for TJ to have taken is by Chris Brockman, not even looking up right now is to put his hand is over his eyes. He's shielding. Cause he's laughing. Cause he knows it's true. No, he's not the hell going on.

So I need an answer. Arias consulting coming in here. I'm thankful that for that direct deposit, which hits tomorrow, two words, two words. Cookies is a seven letter word. Let me ask you this question.

Does the federal government take anything out of the cookies? All right. Did he make them or not? And if you didn't, I mean, what do you just put in a Ziploc or something? Right?

Cause I mean, I like the presentation. So here's what I'm assuming you purchased him elsewhere, right? He did. Right.

He did. Yeah. Where are the rest of them? He saves them for him to bring in what's left over.

Exactly. How many cookies is he eating? Very impressive. Cause Eric, you know, you got like how many of those things when you go to the, where's he getting from?

It's a really fancy spot. Did he recent Westwood? Yes. Yeah. He gets them. And then we'll, you know, he brings us. Yeah, makes it look like you made them makes a little bit, which I got to say, I don't think he's implying that you bring him in a box.

I know you got him from somewhere, correct? You bring him in a tub or I'm assuming homemade, assume homemade and you know, you know what happens when you assume characterizing yourself as something you're not, which is not like RJ, a banker. Look, man, I can't, I got to stand up for him, Jack, he brings us cookies and they were delicious.

They were delicious. So, you know, I'm a stand up for him. He can't throw a ball 60 yards. It's fine.

It's fine. He doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't proclaim himself to be a thrower of the quarterback. Well, you weren't there.

No, this makes it look like he claims to be a Baker. You weren't playing. His last name is not Stevie Reese, but you were definitely some cocktails and Vegas, some claims were being thrown around. Just needed to bring up that conundrum. Thanks, RJ. Don't let them clown you. I'm not clowning anything. I'm just wondering.

And now definitely painting with a broad brush. And I'm wondering, do we put this on Twitter? Because we have the photographs.

Do we put this on Twitter? Is it implied? No, no, no, no. It's definitely implied.

We're not taking that to the people. You guys think that RJ woke up this morning and said, let me get some Tupperware, put these cookies in here. No, I don't think it's intentional. I don't think it's intentional, but that doesn't matter.

Intense. I don't have to prove intent here in this court. If you bring cookies in Tupperware, are you implying that you bring them?

No, no, no, no. The question is, if you bought cookies, is it wrong to bring them to work in Tupperware? Is it a foul? Is it a clock bag? No, I'm trying to come up with the alternative.

It's got to be in something, you have to bring it in the original box. Like even like aluminum foil. Yeah, foil. Foil. I mean, foil makes it look like you still made it at home. You still made it, yeah.

That's true. Paper foil, you made it. See, you guys are going to mess around and then we ain't going to get no more cookies from RJ anymore. In a paper bag.

You know what I mean? In a paper bag. If you brought cookies from a store. Is it wrong to present them in Tupperware?

Yeah. Well, I think our fans know how we feel about Tupperware. If it's wrong to bring them to work in Tupperware. I think our fans know how we feel about hypocrisy. That's true.

And making yourself out to be something you like. I think our fans know about humor. And cookies. And cookies.

And hopefully for them, paydays. I appreciate it. We're going to bring that right around tomorrow. I appreciate you. All right.

We'll see you on Twitter. The Rolling Stone Music Now podcast gets inside the biggest stories with Rolling Stone's senior writer Brian Hyatt. Now here is my conversation with Jacob Knoll. Your story is an amazing one and obviously you lost your dad when you were only one year old. It was definitely a screwy way to grow up. I think that a lot of people never heard of who I am and then they see me join this band and they must think this kid must have just abandoned everything or nepotism kid. It is a gift that I have an opportunity to sing in such a big band like my father and my uncle's band Sublime. Rolling Stone Music Now, wherever you listen.