Producer Mike for the Alex McFarlane Show, listen to this. Alex is the Christian voice we need right now. I love listening to him, and the guests he has on the show are just amazing. I highly recommend his podcast. Great words, Alex.
Well, we give God the glory. We thank the listeners for kind sentiments like that, but we give God all the glory. But folks, please listen in, spread the word. You're spreading the gospel. Tell others about our programming, and we sincerely thank you.
Um The Spiritual Condition of America, Politics, Culture, and Current Events Analyzed Through the Lens of Scripture. Welcome to the Alex McFarland Show. A common belief today is that there is no hell because God is love. Hi, Alex McFarland here. We have a very special edition of the show today.
And not only are we going to talk about one of the most important theological topics, and I want to respond to some current positions professed Christians are taking that, frankly, are not biblical and really must be answered about, yes, the subject of eternity and hell. And we're going to take what we base as our conclusions from the Bible, from God's Holy Word, and we'll go over some of the common arguments that people attempt to make against. an eternal hell And then we'll, I believe, refute those and establish what the Bible and what specifically Jesus Christ says about eternity. And this is also a special show because with me is our longtime producer, now I suppose going into Well, more than 20 years of working together, Michael Segovia. And I want you to meet our team.
We have such a growing staff of people helping us in our events, publishing, broadcasting. But Mike Segovia in Christian Radio is really a legendary producer. He for years produced James Dobson's program. You have heard his work, and we're very blessed that he's a part of our team and he's been producing our digital content radio for a long time. He's with us, and he himself, in addition to being a media professional, is a devout Christian and a great witness for Christ.
Michael Segovia of PFC Audio Video, a valued part of our team. It's good to have you on. Alex, thanks for having me. This is an important conversation that we need to talk about.
Well, really. And hey, let me just say this about radio because we record with Mike and it goes out on hundreds of radio stations across the country. And then you also, I don't even know where you put it all on podcast platforms. Last year it was very humbling. I was on an American Airlines flight and I was looking at the in-flight entertainment and there was spoken word, TED Talks, TEDx, books on tape.
And there I was. The Alex McFarlane podcast was on American Airlines. And you make that happen, Mike. And we thank you. But tell people what all you do in Christian media.
Absolutely.
Well, I have the blessed pleasure of producing the Alex McFarlane show.
So, Alex, and I will record, or Alex will record, and we'll get files from him. And I'll take them, edit them, put them together, and then create the program for the radio show, which goes on AFR, Alex, on Saturdays. And then many other stations pick it up as well. Stu Epperson and the Truth Network. Yep, yep, the Truth Network.
And it goes a lot to a lot of stations in the South. And then, Alex, we turn it into a podcast, which is released every Tuesday. And the podcast version is the longer version, not cut down for radio.
So you might get some extra content, but it's exciting. All kinds of cool things happening. Yeah.
Well, and thank you for the work you do. And folks, keep Michael Segovie in prayer. Over the next few months, I I want you to meet our different staff and all the different things they do to we completely give God the glory, but literally to bring 5,000 to 7,000 people a year to faith in Christ. But Mike, I was on a Zoom call last week with NRB, Troy Miller National. Oh, yeah.
You and I both are a part of NRB. You know, what's amazing is 93% of all Americans. in a week hear some radio. And most of it is in the car. And one thing that is something I hope people will pray about is, and maybe let your elected officials know, that for decades and decades, all automobiles have a radio, AM FM radio.
And a lot of car makers want to get rid of that and just whatever content you're allowed to hear, you have to pay for. But get this, this is very important, and it underscores, I think, the validity of what we do. 93% of all Americans hear some radio in the course of a week. That's amazing. It is amazing.
And the majority of that is in a car. But of those that hear some radio, and this is really exciting, 80% hear some Christian radio.
Now, there are a lot of formats: country and rock, and talk, news talk.
Well, the biggest format in all of radio is Christian radio. teaching And I think it's amazing that 80% of all the people that hear radio in the course of a week hear some Christian radio. That's exciting in this internet Wi-Fi age. Radio is still an incredible tool for getting out the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's awesome.
And be sure to check out the Alex McFarlane show. Go to the website. You can find out where all of the listings are at for the Alex McFarlane Show in your car. You can listen to us.
Well, you know, Mike, we've been privileged to record a lot of people over the years. You know, pretty much every Christian leader you've ever heard of, and hundreds and hundreds of other wonderful Christians. We've recorded Kirk Cameron. And recently Kurt Cameron really said some things that a lot of people found troubling, myself included, that he didn't believe that hell is forever. Right.
And there are two things about eternity that are wrong. One is universalism.
Now, universalism is the idea that if there is a heaven, everybody goes.
Now, that's clearly not what the Bible says. Jesus told Nicodemus in John chapter 3: if you want to go to the kingdom of God, you must be born again. Matthew 7, 21 through 23, the Lord Jesus said, Many will say on the judgment day, Lord, Lord, we did this, this, and this. And Jesus says, No, but to go to heaven, you have to know me. You have to have a relationship with Jesus.
And Jesus in Matthew 7:23 says to many people, depart. I never knew you.
So clearly, universalism is wrong. But then I want to, in this program, talk about what the Bible and the words of Scripture and the words of Jesus Christ say about the eternality of hell. You know, Ray Comfort, whom we've interviewed many times, Ray Comfort for a lot of years discipled Kirk Cameron. And Ray Comfort even, you know, expressed some disappointment when Kirk Cameron came out believing in something called annihilationism, that maybe people are lost, but after a period of punishment, they're just snuffed out. They get annihilated.
Mike that's not what we find in the Bible, is it? No, no, not at all. In fact, several times in the New Testament, Alex, and you have those scriptures that Jesus talks about hell and talks about the weeping and gnashing of teeth and where the worm dieth not. And I mean, I can go over and over again, and I know you're going to share the scriptures coming up here, Alex. I know that we're running low here on segment one, but I really want to get into that, Alex, because there's been a lot of discussion about.
being annihilated. And not existing anymore.
So I thought it was an important subject for you and I to talk about. Indeed, indeed.
Well, folks, we've got to take a brief break. We're going to come right back and talk about what the Bible truly says about hell and the duration of it. Very important. Stay tuned. We'll back after this.
Fox News and CNN call Alex McFarland, a religion and culture expert. Stay tuned for more of his teaching and commentary after this. Hey, producer Mike here for the Alex McFarlane Show, and I'm here with Alex in the studio. Alex, I was just thinking about the Cove and the great time I had last summer out there with my wife. It's coming up again this summer.
What's going on? Oh, wow, Mike.
Well, thank you. We love the Billy Graham Conference Center in Western North Carolina. It is beautiful. The presence of God is so strong there because, you know, Billy Graham and his wife, they prayer walked over those hillsides, and a visit to the Cove will change your life forever. I'm going to be there July 17 through 19 teaching Bible prophecy.
Then I'll be back July 27 through 31 with world-renowned scholar Gary Habermas teaching apologetics how to defend the faith confidently in any situation.
So go to the website thecove.org, T-H-E-C-O-V-E, theCOVE.org, make your reservation, and we'd love to. To see you there in the summer of 2026. Uh He's been called trusted, truthful, and timely. Welcome back to the Alex McFarlane Show. Welcome back to the program.
Alex McFarland here, along with our longtime friend and colleague, Michael Segovia. And we're talking about the subject of hell. And, you know, I get it. I understand the idea of being everlastingly separated from God is very sad. And I will tell you, Mike, in the pastorate and in ministry, very often people will begin to change their theology, especially when someone they love maybe has died or something like that.
It's hard, Alex. It's hard. It really is. And I'm just going to be as clear as I can be. The Bible, we believe the Bible is God's holy word.
There are compelling lines of evidence that show the. perfect supernatural origin of the Bible. And the Bible does present hell as a terrible reality in both Old and New Testaments. Daniel twelve, verse two says that some will be resurrected to everlasting glory and some to everlasting condemnation. And John 5:29 also is one of the verses where Jesus himself warns about.
Eternity without Christ.
Now, let me say this, and I'll throw it to you. In the Bible, the everlasting soul or spirit that is Forever. In the Hebrew, it's the word ruash, and in the Greek, in the New Testament, it's pneuma. And We're made in God's image. The Bible says God breathed into Adam the breath of life and man became a living soul.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 says we are spirit, soul, and body.
Well, here's the thing. All of the lexicons and all of the commentaries recognize that the breath of God God's active presence that makes us different from animals or from inanimate objects. The breath of God, the Spirit, Is everlasting.
Now, God is eternal. There's never been a time when God didn't exist. There was a time when you and I didn't exist. But our soul or spirit does last forever, everlastingly. My our spirit after death will either be in heaven or hell, in the presence of God, or away from God forever.
It's heavy. I get it. This is heavy. Alex, in Luke chapter 16, verse 19. There's the story of the rich man and Lazarus.
A parable, a true story. What was Jesus trying to tell the readers here, Alex?
Well, I believe it absolutely is a true story because all of the parables, you know, Jesus will say a certain man had a farm or something like that. But in Luke 16, it's the only one where proper names are used. Yes, yes. And commentators. I would say absolutely, Jesus is telling truth.
That I mean, there's no pretense that this is hypothetical. This is not an allegory or something like that. Beginning in verse 19, I would encourage people to read this. It's very sobering. A certain rich man.
And then, you know, when he the rich man dies, And he's in the fires of hell. By the way, the same word for fire, the Greek word is per, p-ur, is the same word in Acts 28, where Paul is bitten by a snake and he throws it into a fire. P-U-R. It's not an allegory or anything like that. And the rich man, he says, you know, I'm in torment.
Please, please go tell my brothers that they won't come here. And let me just say this in Luke 16, 19 through 31. The rich man is not in hell because he was rich, and Lazarus is not in heaven because he was poor. Poverty is not necessarily piety. Lazarus was a believer.
In Messiah the rich man was not, the rich But it's pretty frightening. He cries out. You know, I have Abraham or Lazarus dip their finger in water, just one drop of water. Verse 24: I am tormented in this flame. Yeah.
Mike, the Bible treats hell as very real and tangible, doesn't it? Yo, gosh. That's terrifying to me, Alex. Let's talk about the duration of it. In the 1920s, there was an emergence of something called modernism.
Today, we might call it wokeness. Maybe twenty-five years ago it was just liberalism. But among the modernist controversies were the idea that everybody goes to heaven, Jesus is not really God incarnate, and the idea that God is just love and there is no such thing as hell. But again, and by the way, 50 years prior to that, Charles Spurgeon over in England dealt with it. It was called the downgrade controversy.
In other words, we're going to water things down, we're going to downgrade it. Let's look at what the Bible says. Matthew 25, 46. Speaks of quote eternal punishment. Revelation 14, 10 through 11 of those in the lake of fire, it says, quote, the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever, and they have no rest day or night.
Well, 2 Thessalonians 1, verse 9. Of the lost that reject Christ, they die in a state of sin. It says that they suffer the punishment of everlasting destruction and exclusion. From the presence of the Lord and Mike. All these verses, and many more I could give, like Daniel I mentioned, Daniel 12:2, they use the word.
everlasting. I don't see any Bible verses, any. That says, well, they get snuffed out and annihilated. I was talking to someone who kind of leans towards annihilation, and they used this verse. Alex from Matthew 10:28.
And do not fear those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. But rather, fear him who was able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
So he was saying that your body is destroyed. In hell, annihilated.
So, you won't feel anything. How would you answer that, Alex? You know, I looked that up, Mike. I'm glad you brought that up. The Greek word is apoctino, a-p-o-k, te, t-e-n-n-o, or t-e-i-n-o.
That's a great word to use for when you're playing hangman, Alex. I got to remember that. Exactly. Or a scrabble. That would be a triple word score.
Apoctino.
Now it means to kill, slay, or destroy.
Now, if this were the only scripture we had, you know, for so many. You know, biblical positions, we really need to look at the totality of what God's word says.
Now, destroy. Being Consigned to hell, that would be very destructive. But it doesn't necessarily. mean that the spirit ceases to exist. And in fact, you know, in light of other scriptures that we've got that clearly Say hell is forever.
Mark 9:43 through 48. The worm does not die, the fire is not. Quenched. I get it that some would maybe in wishful thinking want the Matthew 10:28, the one who is able to destroy body and soul in hell. Jesus said Well, yeah, God Can welcome the saved into heaven.
He can say to the lost, depart from me, I never knew you. And that is what happens at the great white throne judgment. But I don't really think you can legitimately extrapolate Matthew 10:28, the word there apoctonoi, and mean that it's annihilation. It simply means you're rejected from heaven and sent away to the choice that you made. And we're out of time for this segment.
We have another segment we're going to really button up these things and give some more content.
So stay tuned. Mike Segovia, Alex McFarlane here, talking about what the Bible truly says about hell. Stay tuned. Fox News and CNN call Alex McFarland, a religion and culture expert. Stay tuned for more of his teaching and commentary after this.
Hey, producer Mike here for the Alex McFarlane Show. You know, Alex just released his 21st book. It just came out: 100 Questions on Prophecy and the End Times. And he's here with me in the studio. Alex, tell us about it.
Well, people everywhere are telling me they love this book. I want to ask a favor of the listeners. Folks, this will help, I assure you. Would you go into your local Barnes Noble bookstore? Find a Barnes Noble and go in.
If they don't have my books, would you special order yourself a copy in the Barnes Noble store? The new book, 100 Bible Questions on Prophecy and the End Times, fresh research, published by Broadstreet. Please go into your local Barnes Noble and ask for this and all the other books I've written. It will help spread the word, grow our sales, and get the gospel in the hands of others. And I thank you for doing this to spread the gospel.
Yeah.
He's been called trusted, truthful, and timely. Welcome back to the Alex McFarlane Show. Welcome back to the program. Alex McFarland here. Very honored that you're listening.
Is so honored to have with us our longtime colleague, producer, friend, and brother in the gospel, Michael Segovia. Mike, you do a lot of work for us, and we appreciate that. We kind of, you know, feel like you belong exclusively to our team.
However, it feels that way sometimes.
Well, exactly. You're like family, even though you do so much work for us. And you were the longtime producer of James Dobson, and you've Chuck Smith. The beloved Chuck Smith. You know, I want to do a show and talk about Chuck Smith, and I want to encourage everybody to go see that movie from a year ago, Jesus Revolution.
Kelsey Grammar should have gotten an Oscar for his portrayal of Chuck Smith. And I mean, you worked with those people, you produced the Calvary Chapel, didn't you? I was blessed for 15 years to produce Chuck Smith's program called The Word for Today. And a shout out to my mentor, Dennis Baxter, who actually started the program in 1978, Alex. And so he started The Word for Today in 1978, brought me on.
I was his editor, and we had the privilege of working with Pastor Chuck. And I got saved at Calvary Chapel, but that's a story for another day. Yeah, so that's why I just love talking about the word of God and you know what we're talking about today. This is awesome. Indeed, indeed.
And by the way, folks, we are always updating the website alexmacfarlane.com. Let me urge you to check out United in Prayer. Our nation so desperately needs a revival. And if you would please, we send you every week a devotional to help you pray and really energize and transform your prayer life. Go to alexmacfarlane.com.
My travel schedule, even as we speak, I'm at two universities this month doing open QA, secular universities. We've got big summer camps, our visits to the Billy Graham Training Center, the Cove. Please pray, spread the word about all that God is doing. And if you feel led, we really need your support. Everything we're doing, God is blessing.
Souls are getting saved. Young people are coming to Christ. But if we had more resources, we could see more people reached for the gospel.
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But let's talk about this. Mike, there's a great verse regarding hell, powerful verse, 2 Thessalonians 1:9. Would you read that verse? Absolutely.
These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory. of his power. Everlasting punishment and destruction from the presence of the Lord, the glory of his power.
Now, we're going to go deep a little bit here. Do you know for centuries, great Christian scholars like Jonathan Edwards, one of the first presidents of Princeton, regarding hell, he said, 'Tis dreadful, 'tis awful. But 'tis true. And I would agree.
Now there are two realities. Poenna sensus, that means sensory pain. People are in pain forever. But you know what another part of the tragedy of hell is? It's what scholars call poenna domni.
The Punishment of the loss of the vision and presence of God forever. 2 Thessalonians 1:9. Banished from the presence of the Lord.
Now, Mike, I've debated quite a number of atheists, and they glibly talk about God, and they don't believe in God. Yeah.
Here's the thing. No human in this life knows what it is to be Banished from the presence of God. And imagine the horror, the terror, one second after a lost person dies, for the first time ever. They're away, the Bible calls it outer darkness. The aloneness, the terror, the fear.
Forever alone. C.S. Lewis, the great scholar, wrote quite a bit about this: that part of the Agony of hell would be the everlasting Isolation, the Bible says it is not good that man should be alone. See, part of the reason that there is salvation, there's heaven, of course, there's Jesus the Savior, but his invitation to become part of the family of God is because. We were not meant to be in solitary confinement, isolation, but people do this to themselves.
One last thing, and Mike, I'll throw it to you. I'm reading the Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, and it's a secular book, but even this secular book, and I know some of the philosophers that contributed, it says this: that God generously gives humans. The ultimate choice of choosing Him or rejecting the Good forever. See, part of being a human being. God offers salvation.
But he doesn't force it. Please choose Jesus. God wants to give you the blessings of heaven, but He is not going to twist your arm and make you take it. Sadly, many people. They choose lostness over salvation.
It's heavy stuff, isn't it, Mike? It is, Alex. You know, a few years ago, it actually came up in my memories. It was this week that you and I met you in New York City and we went to go meet our friend Eric Metaxas and do some radio work. It was great.
But while you and I were on the way walking over there, we were cutting through Times Square on the way to Eric's studio. and a young man stopped you and I. And we were shooting a promotional video. And he said, Hey, you guys are Christians, right? And we said, Yes.
And he said to you, You're a preacher. And you said, I am. And he goes, Well, you know what? I don't believe. And you said, Okay, why don't you believe?
And you talked to him for a little bit. And I remember you gave him your personal number, I think a couple of books that you had. And I remember we both said to him For one month. One month say God Are you real? Do it when you go to bed at night.
Reveal yourself to me. And I guarantee you he will. Because the Bible says, Call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Alex, when I was about 14 years old, I didn't know the Lord. I was raised a Catholic by a wonderful mother, but I just didn't really follow.
So I didn't know the Lord.
So every night I went to bed, Alex, there's a picture of Jesus at the end of my bed. And I said, Lord, I don't feel like I'm living. A life that can get me to heaven. I don't feel like I can be good enough. Can you show me the way to get to heaven?
That was my prayer, Alex. Wow. And it took some time. Four years later, I saw the light. I got myself born again.
And I would tell our listeners out there today: if you don't know Jesus as your Savior, And you're wondering, is it really real? Can it Be that he really died for my sins. I'm a mess. You don't know what I've done. Just go to him and say.
Are you real? And just ask him and say, Reveal yourself to me, and I guarantee you. He will. Yes, he will. He absolutely will.
Amen. You know, folks, we often use this phrase, but it's no just saying or catchphrase. It's real. Jesus is as close by as a prayer. And right now, I want you to think about your relationship with God.
When Jesus Christ, the perfect Son of God, God in human form, God incarnate, when he was nailed to that cross, he was innocent and righteous. He had never done anything wrong. He was able to pay for our sin because Christ had no sin of his own. And so the appropriate measure of God's wrath that a fallen, sinful human race deserved, Jesus suffered and died. And you don't have to suffer for your sin in hell because Christ paid for it.
And if you will do this, admit. To God. And say, Lord, I admit it. I am a sinner. I've known the right.
I've done the wrong. Lord, yes, I'm a sinner. And then. Put your trust in Christ and say, Lord, I do believe Jesus is the Son of God. And I believe when He died on that cross, Lord, I believe He did it for me.
And I'm accepting what you did, Jesus, as the payment for my sin. And, dear Jesus, please forgive me. Dear Jesus, I'm putting my faith in you, and Lord, from this moment forward, help me to follow you. Lord, save me. Friend, if you call out to Jesus, I promise you, as tens of thousands have done, I give God the glory in our meetings for the last nearly thirty years.
Mike, I guess it's maybe a quarter million people have walked an aisle or sent us an email and said, I put my faith in Jesus. And my dear friend, today it can be you. If you will put your faith in Jesus, He will save you.
Now, I've got to say this: people are saying, Oh, hell is not real, or maybe it's a temporary thing and then it lights out. That is not what you find in the Bible. In Revelation 20. 11 through 15, there is what's called the great white throne judgment. And the dead, small and great, stood before God, and their names were not in the Lamb's book of life.
And here's what it says regarding Satan. The demons, the beast, the Antichrist, the false prophet, and the millions that reject Jesus, Revelation 20:10, they were cast in the lake of fire and brimstone. Where the beast and the false prophet are, they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Now, no spin, no grammatical twists or watering it down. Folks, the Bible says it's forever. Don't go there. Today, this day. Turn to Jesus and he will save you.
Alex McFarlane Ministries are made possible through the prayers and financial support of partners like you. For over 20 years, this ministry has been bringing individuals into a personal relationship with Christ and has been equipping people to stand strong for truth. Learn more and donate securely online at alexmacfarlane.com. You may also reach us by calling 1-877-YESGOD and the number 1. That's 1-877-Y-E-S-G-O-D-1.
Thanks for joining us. We'll see you again on the next edition of the Alex McFarlane Show.
Okay. Do you have a desire to deepen your faith, better understand Christian apologetics, or to get a biblical perspective on current events?
Well, I've tried to make it simple for you to do just that. On my website, alexmcfarlane.com, there's a new section called Ask Alex Online. It's simple, it's clean, and you can read my answers to common questions about God, faith, and the Bible.
So visit the website, alexmacfarland.com and look for the section that says Ask Alex Online. Mm.
