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Now let's jump in. Nobody can be in two places at once. I can only live in the here and now. But our God is everything, everywhere, all the time. Let's explore that in today's episode on Clearie Today.
You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, a daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today studio here with our host, Dr.
Abadan Shah. Dr. Shah, we've been talking about God. Absolutely. We've been doing series on Job and James and Peter and all of these guys and Paul, but today we're talking about God and heaven.
Yeah, we've been in this series on the attributes of God, getting to know God. Because, you know, if you're going to worship Him and know Him and want to live with Him forever and ever, you need to know who He is. That's right. And so the first step is to come to know Jesus Christ. And once you do, then spend your whole life learning more about Him.
And in fact, the Bible tells us that You know, let not the wise man glory in his wisdom. Let not the rich man glory in his riches. Or you can make it a wise woman and a rich woman as well. But let him who glories glory in this, that he knows me. And so.
Yes, there is a place for glory. And that is in the fact that you're knowing the maker of the universe. The living true triune God, you're knowing him more and more and more. That That is something to be proud of. Amen.
And we've talked about God's attributes, things like the holiness of God. We've talked about God being self-sufficient. We've talked about God being omnipotent. And it leads me to a question, Dr. Shaw.
Where is God? Mm. Great point.
Well, God is fully present in all places at all times. He's unlimited with respect to space. I was thinking about that scene from Pocahontas where they talk about all the ancestors being in the trees and in the rock. I've thought, I don't know why, but my mind went to Yoda when he said, the force exists between you, me, the rock, the tree. And it's funny because people actually take stuff like that and apply it to God.
Pantheism or panentheism. Yeah. God is in the forest and God is in the water and God is in the wind. But we're saying much more than that. Much, much, much, much more than that.
Yeah. You know, when we talk about God, his Henry Law said it this way: His center is everywhere, his circumference is nowhere. I like that. Yeah, I wish I could take that. I know, but I wish I slapped it on a t-shirt.
Henry Law. Let's crush that out. Yeah, I know. Shaw. I mean, I like it.
But it's powerful. It is. When he said those words, when Law said those words, it is saying something that yes, God is there between me and you, the stone, and all that, but that is not his circumference. That is That is not his midpoint. I mean, it's everywhere.
He is greater than this universe because he made it. And I think it's awesome too where you talk about his circumference and because God's a living being, right? He's alive. It's not like the further out he is, the thinner he spreads. You know what I'm saying?
Yeah. And we think in finite terms where it's like, okay, for something to be covering that vast a difference, it has to be thin at the edge. But he's completely and 100% God everywhere that he is. Yeah, that's right. You have to think about.
That's right. I can't be in two places at one time. I try. In our world of technology, we try to be. on a Zoom call over here and talking to someone right here and texting.
I mean, you can you can try to be in three places at one time, but literally you are only in one place at a time, but not so with God. God can, in two or three or three billion places at one time. And all of him is present there, not just his right toe or his index finger. All of God is present in all places in the entire universe and beyond. Wow, it's incredible, too, because we've also been talking about the same thing applies to him even across time.
He's present just as much in George Washington's day or Abraham Lincoln's day as he is right now, or Moses' day, Abraham's day. And we've been talking about that a lot because. Where God is, just like you were asking, Ryan, where God is, is such an important thing to understand if we're going to really know him. Absolutely. 100%.
God being fully God in every place at all times. What is that? And I know we're going to get here, but what does that do for us? How do we understand that? And how does that cause us to live our lives?
Typically, people. They they they Bring that up only to To emphasize the fear of God. Yeah. That He is everywhere, which means He is watching me. You can't get away with nothing.
We cannot get away with anything. And yes, there is that aspect of fear. The negative part of God's omnipresence. But there's also a lot of positive parts as well. Because God being everywhere implies that He is much bigger than my circumstances and your circumstances.
I agree. He encompasses all, and he is beyond that. It also tells me that he sees all things.
So. I may be hurting over here, or I may be confused, or anxious, or stressed out, or fearful. And He's not just, you know, doing the big things like reaching the world. And my little problem, God doesn't have time for that. No, He is.
Present with me, and all of him is present with me.
So, it's not just a negative, fearful doctrine, it's actually a very positive. Encouraging and comforting truth. He is with me, and all of him. Is present with me. That's a great point.
We were in a hotel room last night with my two boys, and they fight. They argue over who's going to pray. I don't know why, but they like they just both love praying, which I love, but they fight over whose turn it is. And I think they're really convinced that if one of them's praying, that God is going to love him more, he's going to hear him. And so we were actually talking about this last night.
I was like, guys, y'all can both pray at the same time and God's going to hear you both. And Gavin was like, I know that, but Holden was like, really? For real? Wait a minute, wait a minute. I gotta figure this out.
He's like, at the same time, is he going to listen to him or listen to me? It's just that stage we're in. But you're right.
Well, that's one of God's attributes that, you know, we talked about the communicable and incommunicable attributes of God. God being omnipresent, fully present in everywhere at all times. It's difficult for us to relate to that because we have no frame of reference for that, right? Because we're finite beings. You know, when we talked about those incommunicable and communicable attributes, this is one of those incommunicable attributes.
God is God, and you are not. I am not. And if we try to play God, we will fail and fail miserably. And I may also add You will get hurt and hurt those around you.
So let me clarify that.
Sometimes we think we are omnipresent. with people. And we're not. Yes, there is a place for intuition. There is a place to read things and figure out what's happening and be three steps ahead of a situation because of experience, because of a prayerful spirit.
But if you take that to And it it and Kind of an illegitimate limit, and you start thinking that you know what people are doing, and you know what's happening here, and you know what's happening without any solid evidence. Very soon, you will be, or I will be playing God. Oh, I know what you're thinking. Oh, I know what he's up to. Oh, I know what's going on behind my back.
Be careful about that. We all fall into that trap, and I have too, and might still tomorrow. But I have to remind myself Maybe I don't know. Yeah. Maybe maybe my perspective is very limited.
Maybe I am completely Off. And and for me to think I was there and I know What happened? Is is Trying to play God. That's right. I'm not omnipresent.
Yeah. That's it's so interesting to hear you talk about that because I've never thought about misunderstanding or misrepresenting the attributes of God. You know, that just. I guess in my mind, it was always damaging to self. Like it just, my understanding is messed up or incomplete or lacking.
But I never thought about it hurting other people. I never thought about the ramifications in my communication with other people or my interactions with other people. I never considered that. I even think about it, maybe this is maybe this is taking the analogy too far, but I always thought about it too, like the way that people want so desperately to be famous and want to be seen. And I want to be everywhere.
You know what I'm saying? Where no one in the world. hasn't heard my name, like celebrities. I think a lot about how reach and fame and power and influence they want it to go as far and wide as possible so that people all over the world know me. And maybe it's from this desire to be everywhere and be seen.
But I think also it's a thing where it's like God is everywhere at all times. And maybe that's another way of playing God, where I want people's attention and focus drawn on me in the secular world that we live in.
So as you were saying that, I mean, just think about where we are now with social media. We went from having things like MySpace and Facebook where you have friends to Instagram and TikTok where you have followers. I mean, just that, just that vernacular change, that's indicative of where we are as a culture. Yeah, that's right. Who wants to have only five followers?
No, nobody. I want now millions. Yeah. I want millions of followers. I mean, it's just appealing to our ego, the sick side of us.
Let me also say this. You know, sometimes when people. Just just erratically, just just without any any rhyme or reason they they change on you. And you go wait. This person was just normal yesterday, but then what happened today?
Or last week when we met, everything was fine, but not today. Or last month everything was okay, but all of a sudden there is a shift. is because they are playing the omnipresent god.
Now, maybe somebody corrupted their view of you or of your, you know, what you're trying to do, or sometimes in their own mind. In their own mind, they are trying to be omnipresent. And they think they know what you're doing or what you have done. And then they begin to operate from that perspective. I hope it's making sense to people.
Yeah. Just like it's like you've done something. No, we haven't.
Well, I know you have.
Now, they may not say it like that, but they begin to operate from that. Yeah, they act it. I act that way. Yeah, I've experienced that, and I'm like, what happened here? What happened is they're playing God.
Now, somebody may have corrupted them or said something negative about you to them, or they may just have conjured this entire scenario in their mind thinking that they were there when there was nothing, no such thing. Yeah, I think that happens more often than people think. People will hear something, say something, get this idea, and instead of giving it over to God, they play with that idea, and then that idea grows and spirals until eventually in their mind it becomes the truth. I've done that. And then they act on it.
Yeah. And relationships are damaged. Trust falls apart. And it takes a long time to rebuild it. Because then you go I don't understand.
And I'm not saying for a moment that I have not done that. Of course, as a human being, I have, but I try not to. And many times when those things happen, I'm shocked. I'm like. That person was okay yesterday.
What happened? Have they talked to somebody negative, or have they tried to be omnipresent? They're grossly mistaken, but they're trying to be omnipresent. Maybe for the listener, can you walk us through that? How do I know if that's me?
How do I know maybe if this is an innocent misinterpretation of something someone said, or maybe I'm really trying to play God? Maybe I have fallen into this trap. Yeah. I would tell you to take every thought captive. You know, Paul talks about that.
Take every thought captive and bring it to the obedience, subjection of Jesus Christ. Put that thought under the feet of Christ. Because if you run after that thought and say, well, you know, right now I'm really convinced that this is right, I'm going to go after this. Then the next thought you will go a little bit faster, and the third one will be much easier, and the fourth will be just a way of life. And by the fifth and the sixth and the seventh You're doing this non-stop.
So, if you go ahead and stop it where it needs to be, you will save yourself a lot of pain. Lot of heartache. He said, what are you talking about? Stop playing God. You're not God.
I'm not God. Stop thinking that you can know people's thoughts, and you are there in that room, and that conversation happens. Billy Graham in his book on the Beatitudes. He said something, and I read that years ago, and often. Often the Holy Spirit has used that statement in that book to jolt me to reality.
And what Billingham said is. And I think it was on the Blessed Are the Meek. He said He suffered From this Weakness That any time he saw two people talking, He thought they were talking about him. Negatively, I think a lot of people listening to this just perked up because they're like, that's me. I think that.
I think that. Yeah, I people are talking. I've 100% fallen into that trap. Yeah, absolutely. They're talking about me.
Don't let them laugh as I walk by. Then it's over. I'm not going to sleep tonight. And what you're saying is, I'm in that conversation. I am standing with them, and they have just talked about me in.
In front of me. No, they haven't. You're on the other side of the room. Yeah. They're not talking about you.
Right.
Now yes, there are times people talk about each other. There are times they may laugh at you and those d I'm not saying those things never ever happen. But many times, I think we're trying to play God. I think, yes, I think you're right. One of the most humbling thoughts that can hurt, but it can also set you free is realizing that people don't think about you nearly, nearly, nearly as much as you do.
You're not nearly as important as you think you are. And that definitely can sting if you're proud, but it can also set you free. If you're an insecure person, if you're an insecure person and you feel like everyone's always mad at you, everyone's always out to get you or talking about you, they're not. That is absolutely a freeing thing to realize that you are not on people's minds and you're not the topic of conversation as much as you think you are. Not nearly.
Not nearly the amount. And I don't know if that's a millennial thing or if that's just a human being thing, but I seriously, I've been praying about this for years. Like, Lord, take me, take this thought away from me that I'm the center. Of not only my universe, but everybody's universe. Everyone always thinks about me, criticizes me, wishes I was different, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, and there's moments like this where you realize that's not the case. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, the old adage or the adage, we speak our world into existence. You know, it's almost become humorous to use that because everybody uses now. But that sometimes happens.
So when they're not talking about you because you're thinking they're talking about you and you begin to treat people that way, then they are talking about you. That's right. And then you say, see, they're talking about me. They are now, but they weren't. No, they were.
They were. They were the whole time. What else could they possibly talk about? It's got to be me.
So, I mean, going back to God's omnipotence or omnipresence, Psalm 139, verse 7 says, where can I go from your spirit? From my spirit, okay, as a human being, people can go anywhere. They can go in the next room. People can sit across the room. And I have no clue what's going on in their heads.
But where can I go from your spirit, or where can I flee from your presence? If I ascend into heaven, you are there. If I make my bed in hell, behold, you are there. If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me and your right hand shall hold me. What a powerful statement.
That's right. That's right. Yeah, those verses are. Powerful to think about. I mean, it goes back to what you were saying earlier, Dr.
Shaw, about the kind of the double-sided reality of God's omnipresence. Where you have that kind of fear element where God's going to see me no matter what I do. But also, it doesn't matter where I am. It doesn't matter what I'm going through. It doesn't matter who is with me.
It doesn't matter who is not with me. Even when I'm alone, even when I feel like I'm in the furthest reaches of the earth, God is there. In his full power, too. Yes. His full authority, his full message.
Not just a sliver of God. Yeah, I don't have one one billionth of God that's split equally across everybody else. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a great illustration is like a sponge filled with water.
I mean, in that sense, you can say that's that's kind of like what God is. But there are two qualifications I want to bring out here regarding the omnipresence of God, not ours, omnipresence of God. Number one is that it is specially manifested in different places.
Okay, especially manifested in different places.
So, although God is everywhere. God the Father is specially manifested in heaven, God the Son has been specially manifested on the earth. Even though right now he's also at the right hand of the Father, where two or three are gathered together in his name, he is there as well. And the Spirit is manifested everywhere, especially It's not that they're not there, but specially manifested. God the Father in heaven, God the Son.
Heaven and earth, and spirit everywhere.
So there's this, there's this. I just see it as this Venn diagram where all of creation is covered by God in some way. Is there a difference? In how we perceive and/or interact with God when He is. When he's present everywhere versus when he's specially manifested in a place.
Well, he acts differently in different places.
Okay.
Okay, and he can do that.
So God is on earth? He's in heaven and in hell. Wait a minute. Yeah. Wait a minute.
Absolutely. Yeah. People are like, they've set their laundry down. They've parked the car because they're fully listening now. Which does not mean God is suffering in hell.
Right.
Well, I even think people would take issue with that because hell is supposed to be the one place that God isn't. Like, that's what we're doing. Yeah, that's the opposite that God is not there. That's how we treat it. We treat, like, heaven and hell as opposite, opposing kingdoms.
Yeah. Where people are in one, they can't be in the other. Oh, I've heard it said outright. That's the worst part of hell is that God's presence is not there.
Well, here's how it is. They cannot experience the presence of God in the sense that we do. Like right now, even though this world is wretched, sinful, evil. There is still the presence of the Holy Spirit that keeps sort of a lid. On evil, you know, the spirit will convict the world of sin, righteousness, and the judgment to come.
I mean, a person can be lost, has no clue about Jesus Christ, has no desire to receive Jesus Christ, but there's something inside, maybe through the means of the conscience, that they know that they will have to pay for that. That's the Holy Spirit telling them: don't do that. You'll have to pay for it.
Now, many, many times, human beings cross the limits and do what they want to do. The kill They steal, they rape, you you name it, I mean they do awful things to each other. But there is that that Sense of there's a judgment coming.
So when we talk about the presence of God, we're talking about that kind of a presence. In hell, when we say presence of God, it's not the presence that keeps them you know, in check. or the presence that still has got us feeling of love and fulfillment. It's not just Christians who have love and fulfillment, folks. Lost people have it too.
People worshipping other false gods have it too. But the only way they have that fulfillment when they see their little baby or at a marriage or some other high moment is because the living, true, triune God. Allows them to bask in His aura, in His beauty, in His presence. Hell will not have that. God's presence will be there in the sense of the Judge.
Almost like a prison warden. The presence is there, but But It doesn't Give any Hope? It doesn't give any conviction. It doesn't give that feeling of peace and fulfillment. Nothing.
Yeah. So, we need to be more careful how we say those things: like, hell is the absence of the presence of God.
Okay.
I see what you mean. But he's not omnipresent. Yeah. And I think that's a great distinction to make. I think when we say that, what we're really saying and what we really truly honestly believe is that God is omnipresent, except for this little pocket dimension that exists apart from him, which means he's not omnipresent.
Can God not be manifested differently in hell? Can he not be manifested as a person of justice and judgment and wrath? That's what he's going to be in hell. That's right. It is not Satan's hell, right?
Satan doesn't own hell. It's not his hell. He's not the ruler, yeah. No. He's going to suffer in hell because God has prepared that place for Satan and his angels.
You and I were not designed for hell. That's right. Human beings were not made for hell. We send ourselves to hell when we reject God's sacrifice. Through his son Jesus Christ.
Yeah. So. On Earth. Redeeming fallen mankind through the sacrifice of his Son, Jesus Christ. That's how God.
Reveals himself on earth. In heaven receiving the praise of the cherubim and the angels.
Well, how about in hell? We just talked about this. To punish those who did not receive the gift of eternal life.
So his presence is there. But manifested differently. Even functionally, if we think about God not being in hell and we s we're okay with saying that Satan is going to be punished in hell, who's doing the punishing? That's right. Right.
Who's carrying it out? Whose standard of wrath and justice is being measured out? Did God just create this dimension to just sort of run on its own as a machine without him? No, I think people think that seriously. And I'm not saying that as like a you foolish people.
I've thought that too. I've never thought about it because I was always told his presence isn't there. Right.
Well, maybe until this conversation, I mean, people didn't have the verbiage to articulate how God. can be present in all these different places and in all these different functions. No, can he not manifest himself differently in different places at the same time? Yeah. Yeah.
Right.
Yes, he can. He doesn't have to say, Oh, I'm a loving God.
Sorry. I have to pour my love in hell as well. No, he doesn't. Yeah, he did. I mean, we just talked about that he demonstrated, he specially manifested himself differently on earth while the Father was in heaven.
That's right. Yeah. That's a great, it's a great point. Yeah. So there's a verse here I want to read for us in Amos chapter 9.
Verses one through four. Maybe Ryan, if you want to read that verse for us, because it's a powerful verse that gives us an understanding of the presence of God everywhere.
Okay.
I saw the Lord standing by the altar, and he said, He who flees from them shall not get away. and he who escapes from them shall not be delivered. Though they dig into hell, from there my hand shall take them. God's hand is gonna go down into hell and pull them out? I don't think You can do that.
I mean, isn't it didn't be? Didn't we? Don't we hear people say that hell is the absence of the presence of God? And by the way, some of my favorite theologians and apologists have said that, and I'm like. Oh, have you not read Amos, Chapter 9?
Yeah. Okay.
Oh, it's just metaphorical?
Okay, then if you do that, then we may have to. Yeah. Throw out most of the Bible because it's all metaphorical. No, God means what He's saying here. That's right.
Though they climb up to heaven, from there I will bring them down. and though they hide themselves on top of Carmel, from there I will search and take them. Though they hide from my sight at the bottom of the sea, from there I will command the serpent, and it shall bite them. Wait, wait, wait. What wait a minute.
Though they hide from my sight at the bottom of the sea, from there I will command the serpent. He's referring to Satan himself. You know, I mean, this serpent is not just some sea monster. It's also, in a sense, representing Satan.
So there's a double meaning there.
So God is saying, I'm going to even get Satan to go get you. That's scary, yeah. Yeah, I mean that's a th the the enemy is not an equal counterpart, like two two uh boxers in a ring boxing it out. No, there isn't zero comparison between God and the enemy. That's right.
Zero.
So And the last little bit, Orion? Though they go into captivity before their enemies, from there I will command the sword, and it shall slay them. I will set my eyes on them for harm and not for good.
So fulfilling. It is chilling, you know, so we have to be very careful. And and so, um, Hildebert of La Verden. Said it this way: He said, God is over all things. Under all things Outside all Within but not enclosed, Without but not excluded, the above, but not raised up below, but not depressed, Wholly above W H O L L Y.
wholly above presiding, wholly beneath sustaining, Holy within filling. Oh, Hildebert, he just knew how to say things. He did. And I think, Dr. Schump, maybe we can kind of close on this, but I think this goes to show.
A very viable and pretty simple answer for why people say that God seems so inconsistent. You know, for this creature, this being, I should say, who's always consistent, can't change, doesn't change. He sure has a lot of mood swings in the Bible, right? He's really, really harsh, and then he's very loving, and then he'll wipe out entire cities, and he's very loving, but he's all-encompassing. And he manifests himself differently across time and across space and all of these things.
And I think maybe this is an answer for when people say that you can. You can't do that. Because God is God and you're not, I'm not. Neither are the angels God. Only God is God who can do this, who can be truly omnipresent.
And Praise God for that. Amen. Praise the triune God for that. Amen. Amen.
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That's right. And the fact that God is with you should be a comfort to you, not just in your hard times, but even in your sin, because there's someone there who wants to deliver you, who wants to use whatever you're going through right now, maybe even the things and the trouble that you're causing to bring you back to Himself. That's a God worth worshiping and worth following and worth getting to know.
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