Greg & Cathe Laurie on Having a Godly Relationship

Hello everybody.

Look they put a piece of tape. Greg, Kathy, I think I know where we are, but I'm thinking about who that girl would be that he might end up with. Do you think that women like strong men, or do you think that women would rather have a guy they could kind of sort of control? Okay, well let me just say right off the bat, if you think you want to marry a guy that you would like to control, you're off base right from the get-go. Because first of all, that's not what we're called to do as wives. We are not called to control our husbands, or to control anyone for that matter. What we want to do as wives is to help our husbands be the best possible them they can be. And that is not about our control, because we certainly can't be the Holy Spirit.

We can't be God in our husband's lives. So, you know, for my advice to you, if you're a single woman, look for a guy who has a strong walk with the Lord, a strong sense of his identity and his worth as a man of God, who knows where he's going, because you do not want to bear the burden and the responsibility for his walk, for his decisions, for his life. And it certainly was that way with us. I was only 15, but I knew one thing. I did not want to get involved with a guy who was wishy-washy.

I wanted a guy who knew where he was going, who had a sense of direction in his life. It's so funny, because I was only, like, 14 or 15, but I could – I was only three years older. We should make that clear, because the thinking was, like, Greg, when you were, like, 40 and she was 14, I was three years older. You were 14. I was 17. Well, I was, like, 15 and 18, you know, but I was – No, you were 16 going on 17 innocent as a rose. It's so long ago. I can't remember.

What do you know of those? This is a weird thing, because a lot of people think that girls are the ones, the sentimental ones and the sensitive ones. I beg to differ. This guy likes musicals, and Sound of Music is one of his favorite movies out there. And you don't have to turn in your man, Clark, for that. It's true. I'm going to admit I like Sound of Music.

I don't apologize. And West Side Story. Yeah, but I also like Braveheart, Gladiator, K-7, Tombstone. And World War II movies. Now, people are going to write me letters. Why would you see those movies? Anyway, go ahead.

And he rides a Harley-Davidson. So what happened early on? Well, early on in our relationship is that I would meet a guy, and, you know, they would be independent, seem to know who they were, and, you know, find this person interesting and attractive. And the next thing you know, the minute they started to be interested in me, it was like they lost all sense of self and opinion and direction, and it drove me crazy. It's like, ooh, you know, at first you'd be like, well, what do you want to do? Where would you like to go?

What would you like to eat? And personally, as a woman, I did not want somebody who was just going to capitulate to my every whim, because, you know, that's just kind of icky, you know? You're attracted to someone who is different than you are for a reason. And, you know, with Greg, I could not control him.

That is a fact. And one of the first conversations we ever had when we were dating, and you probably have heard this before, Greg said to me, so I guess we're boyfriend and girlfriend now. And I was like, okay. We had just come from a summer camp, and we had been going out to coffee after church and getting to know each other, and then when he said that to me, I was like, whoa, this is getting official. And usually about that time is when I would kind of get the ick factor and want to back away from a guy, but he said something that was totally different than the other guys that I was dating. So single guys sit up, take notice. He said, if you ever get between me and my relationship with God, it's over.

And it was like, yes, finally. Finally there's a guy who is willing to know where he's going, know what he wants, and isn't willing to compromise, even for me in our courtship, what that would be. And I don't want to bear the burden of that, and neither do you as a woman. You do not want to control a man.

You don't want to be the one responsible for his happiness, for his direction and purpose in his life. What do guys need to know about women that maybe we don't know? Reveal one of the great mysteries to us. It is a deep mystery, Grasshopper.

I will try to tell you the ways of women. I know one thing for a fact, and that is women are made completely different than guys are. We're put together physiologically. Just look at our bodies.

We're so different than you are. And we like that. And that's a good thing.

Yes, that's a good thing. I think we are complex on every level, complex in the way we are made. I mean, you think that women can bear a child in their bodies and then nurture that child and raise that.

I mean, that is just miraculous. We are so different in that way, just on that level. And the Scriptures, I think you mentioned in your message that men are to dwell with their wives according to knowledge. In other words, be understanding of the differences that your wife has. And it says that we are the weaker vessel, but in a sense, I think that is speaking specifically of our physical strength. But I don't think that women are weaker intellectually or weaker in their insights or weaker in their intelligence. We're just different. And again, going back to the fact that we're more complex, I think when you look at a woman, you realize that women in their relationships are multi-tiered. We're far more interconnected socially than most men are.

Men are more independent. Yeah, if you have a guy, like if a guy and I are having lunch, hey, how's it going? It's going well.

Yeah, what's up? Just back and forth. Girls, you'll have like six girls around a table. All of them are talking at the same time and understanding each other.

And guys are like, what's happening? You know, we don't get that because that's not how we communicate. And we see things, I think we have a higher emotional IQ.

You know, without even words, we can read behind words. Yes, that's true. And, you know, a lot of times we'll come away from a situation.

We'll be with another couple or in a group. And, you know, I'll say to Greg, did you happen to notice? Thus and so.

Did you see that? Or I get the sense and he's like, no, I didn't notice that. So, you know, we aren't weaker in that sense. We bring those strengths into a marriage and into a relationship. And we as women would like you men to know that we like to be valued and we like to be asked our opinion. We like to contribute. It's not just all about you.

And we can help. That is exactly what the scripture says that women are to be in the garden. God saw the aloneness of man. It was the first time that he said of his own creation something was not good.

And that was before the fall, before sin had even entered into the world. He said, it's not good the aloneness of man. I'll make a helper suitable for him. And that is the role of the wife. She is to be a helper. And you're thinking, well, a helper, like what?

I'm some sort of assistant to take orders, you know, or whatever. No, actually the word helper is a word that is used more often than not to describe God himself. Our God is our help and our strength, very present help in time of trouble. That's a really good point.

It's the exact same word. We think, oh, helper. I don't want to be a helper.

No, God himself is described as a helper. So this is not subservient, but it's supporting and that's an important distinction. Why do girls, I think anyone in general doesn't like the word submission, but do you think that some girls, when they hear, you know, wives submitted to your husband, immediately knee jerk like, no, I'm not going there, you know. And why is that? Is it because they understand it and don't want to do it or they misunderstand it completely?

A little bit of both, maybe a lot of both. I think submission, the very word submission is not a popular word. I mean, can you think of a situation at all in out there in the world today where you would say this submission is a good thing? You know, submission is like, you know, you're surrendering.

And I think it's because we don't understand what the biblical word even means and how God is using that biblical word. So there's some of that and as well as the fact that. So what does it mean? Well, submission is interesting because it is to rank yourself under. But by and large, women are co-equal with men in their ability to approach God.

Obviously, it's not demeaning of their intelligence or their gifts or anything else. What it is, in a marriage, you have two and someone has to take the responsibility of the deciding vote. When there is a disagreement, when there is two differing opinions, someone has to bear the weight and the responsibility before God for making the decision. And I don't know why, but God says that that burden rests on the man's shoulders. And ladies, that is not an easy thing.

That is not an easy thing. And in this day and age, I think it's a thing that more men are running from than ever before. I think in the old days, it used to be men are domineering and they're abusive and they're insensitive and they're, you know, they never seek a wife's opinion. And that's wrong. And that is wrong.

And that's one way in which sin, you know. But the other extreme today. But the extreme today is I see this a lot in younger men. It's one of the reasons why I think men and girls are putting off marriage is because the guys don't want to assume the responsibility and the leadership role. And guys, don't be afraid to lead.

Do not be afraid to use your God given role as a man to lead in your marriages, in your families. But what does that leadership look like? Look like is it's the leadership of Jesus Christ.

It's that servant leadership. Jesus, the night before he was betrayed, washed his disciples feet. And then he said to his disciples, he said, you call me master and Lord and I am.

Imagine Jesus Christ himself, God in the flesh. He says, you're right. I am master. I am Lord. But did you know what I just did to you?

I washed your feet. I am as one who serves among you. That is the role of the husband.

He has the authority, but he uses that authority only to love and serve his wife. And you know, in situations where you don't agree as a wife, I've had plenty of those in 42 years of marriage. I am a strong willed person.

I am not a mellow personality and anyone who gets close to me. And that's why I was drawn to you. And he liked the fact that I was independent. You're strong. You're a woman. Yes. And I have my own walk with the Lord. That's a really old song, remember that song? I do. Yes, it's Helen Reddy, if you remember. Helen Reddy.

Nobody knows who she is but you and me in this room. But anyway, but the thing is that when you do come, you know, when we have come to places of disagreement, I found one of two things happen. One is that when I do rank under Greg and submit, when I think that the decision is wrong because we couldn't come to a consensus, I sometimes have seen God do the most miraculous things.

And it has turned out in the long run that he was absolutely right. When we were first married and I had Christopher and later on when I had Jonathan, I did not want to leave my kids for anything. I thought, you know what? I am the mother. I am so, again, interconnected with my child that the thought of leaving for a weekend getaway with Greg to just be together as a couple was very difficult for me. And Greg would say, no, Kathy, you and I need to do this. It was like, no, he's going to starve.

They won't get him to eat. So, you know, Greg would say, no, we're going to do this. And as hard as it was for me to leave Jonathan and Christopher when they were infants just to work on our own marriage, I've seen over the years, he was absolutely right. I would have been the worst helicopter mother. I would have never let go.

They would have been tied to my apron strings to this day and I would have been running their life and cutting their meat for them and spoon feeding them. You know, I needed Greg to step in there. However, there have been times in our marriage. Let me just jump off there for a moment because I think it's important that people understand, you know, we're not in any way saying don't be good parents because as we'll see in our next message, that's such an amazing and wonderful responsibility. But what we're saying is there's actually priority in the family. Number one priority is a strong marriage, then parenting. Because sometimes, you know, kids are born and it's all about the kids, the kids, the kids.

And you want to care for them and love them and raise them in the way of the Lord. However, I've seen sometimes, you know, more focus put on the children and the marriage suffers. If you strengthen the bond between the husband and the wife, that's the best thing you can do for your kids. When your kids see mom and dad loving each other and they have the security that mom and dad are staying together, you're bolstering their foundation. But if in the name of the children, all this for the children, your marriage breaks up, wow, you're going to hurt the kids more than you'll ever realize. So when we're saying this, it's not like we went away for a month.

It was like a weekend, okay? To strengthen our bond as husband and wife and now the children will benefit because that strengthens the whole thing. But you were saying something else. Well, you know, you're to cleave to your husband. They don't use that word cleave to be joined, inseparably joined in the relationship between a parent and a child. As a matter of fact, a man, when you raise your children to be independent, you raise them to go out into the world to make their own choices and train them in the way they should go. But eventually, they're going to leave home as they should. A man shall leave his father and mother. Your children are going to go as much as you love and adore them and can't imagine life without them under your roof. Sooner or later, they will leave home. And the bottom line is, is your relationship with your husband is going to stay. That relationship, the children will change, but your relationship, so invest in that.

But that was the sub point. The main thing was that Greg made choices and decisions sometimes that I didn't understand or like very much at the time. And, you know, when it comes to submission, you really need to look to the Lord to help you. You need to get the mindset of Jesus who said, let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God did not think it robbery to be equal with God, but took on himself the form of a servant and put the needs and the interests of others before himself. And so when the situation has happened and Greg has made a mistake and Greg does make mistakes, I know it's hard to believe, but he does. He has made the wrong choice, you know, whether it was a financial decision or whatever kind of decision. And I feel like it's not my responsibility to be the Holy Spirit in Greg's life.

The Lord dealt with Greg and the Lord dealt with me. And we look to our own responsibilities. But the thing is, ladies, if you are always undermining, criticizing, challenging, bucking your husband's leadership, sooner or later you will either abdicate that relationship or you're going to be the one who is pulling the strings. You're going to bear the burden, which God says is not your responsibility to bear. And you will never give your husband the opportunity to learn the difficult lesson of listening to his wife. You're going to always be pushing it. Let him make the wrong choice.

Come back to the same. Or the right choice. Or the right choice. But if you're always, and most of the time it is the right choice, but when it's not, God has a way of teaching both you and him. He will protect you. He says that the Lord will watch over you and protect you. And he will teach the man. He understands.

He may not come to you and say, you were right, I'm sorry, but it will definitely be there. So, you know, submission is something we joyfully and willingly surrender as if to Christ. We prefer one another above each other.

And then we see that the husband, in turn, honors and loves and respects his wife as well. I want to kind of pick up on something you said earlier where you talked about how Jesus laid his life down for us. And I want to kind of move away from marriage for a second and singleness and roles of men and women, just talk about people. You know, there's one thing that everyone has in common, every man, every woman, every boy, every girl. And that is that we all need God's help, you know.

We talked about, you know, the role of a man and we should submit and all this. Yeah, but first it says submit to God. Know that God is God and you're not.

And the big problem with everything, marriage problems, single problems, problems in the world in general, it's all sin that shows itself in selfishness. And, you know, it's that sin that separates us from God. But, you know, 2,000 years ago as you said, Jesus Christ, who was God, laid aside not his deity but he laid aside the privileges of deity and he served us and he lived our life.

And then really he died our death. He died on the cross for our sin so we could be forgiven of our sin. And there are some folks here maybe that are visiting or maybe you've been here before or they're watching or listening and have never asked for God's forgiveness. And so we want to just close by saying when it's all said and done you need Jesus Christ, you need his forgiveness so you can be certain that when you die you will go to heaven.

And not only that but so you can have a life that is worth living. You know, Christ wants to live inside of you. I asked my little grandson Christopher yesterday, Christopher, where's Jesus? He said, in my stomach.

It's like, no, close but not quite. You know, it's in the heart. You know, we want Christ in our heart. And we don't mean literally he lives in our little heart, our little Jesus. No, we're talking about God himself comes and takes residence in the life of the man or woman that reaches out to him and asks for his forgiveness. And there might be some of you here that have never asked Jesus to come into your life and you're not sure that you would go to heaven when you die.

And you don't know what the meaning or purpose of your life is but you want Jesus. And so I'm going to give you an opportunity to believe in him, not just so you can have a better marriage if you're married, but just so you can know the meaning of life and know you'll go to heaven when this life ends. So let's all bow our heads, please, everyone praying. Father, thank you for loving us so much. You sent Jesus. Jesus, thank you for coming. And now I pray for any here that have joined us who may not yet know you.

Help them to see their need for you and help them to come to you. Now while our heads are bowed and our eyes are closed and we're praying, listen, if you want Jesus Christ to come into your life, if you want him to forgive you of your sin, if you want to know that when you die you will go to heaven, just right where you sit, you can pray this prayer after me. Again, as I pray, just pray this simple little prayer after me. Just pray, Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner. But I know that you're the Savior who died on the cross for my sin and rose again from the dead. Now Jesus, come into my life and be my Savior and be my Lord and be my God. I choose to follow you from this moment forward in Jesus' name I pray. Amen.