Hey Greg Laurie with my good friend John Irwin. Welcome to my podcast. And John and I are going to talk about a lot of things. John is a filmmaker extraordinaire. And we first got to know each other a number of years ago when you came to me with a cover of Time Magazine with a sort of psychedelic image of Jesus on it.
And with the words Jesus Revolution. I think you were in your late 30s when we met, maybe 39. 15.
I'm 42 now, so someone do the math. I'm on a press tour. I'm tired. But basically, I remember even before that, and to your credit, I was doing a film called Woodlawn before the film I Can Only Imagine. And there was a prayer where a stadium full of people, all of which were digital in the movie, prayed the Lord's Prayer.
And we knew the audio to it. And so to your credit, because you had no idea who I was. I'm this, you know, young filmmaker. And I'm like, hi, Pastor Laurie.
Great to meet you. Could you, at your SoCal event, just have everyone pray the Lord's Prayer for me for a movie? Like that's how the relationship started. And it was like a week before. And you did it. And that audio is in the movie.
And I'm grateful. And then I had bought a magazine. I had found it on eBay. And it had the psychedelic cover of Jesus on it. And it had the words Jesus Revolution. And my parents, the Jesus movement was very definitive for them.
And their walk. And so I read this article. And there's this thing in our industry that we call FOMO, the fear of missing out, which is how I felt. I'm like, my generation has never experienced anything like this.
And it was just the last great sweeping move of God. And so I said outside, I want to meet people that lived this movement, which led to our relationship and a great, wonderful friendship and great collaboration. And on many things, as you began to produce content, we've made a lot of stuff together. The Steve McQueen documentary, Johnny Cash documentary, of course, Jesus Revolution. And then you were on set and a consultant and a guide, as always, on House of David as well.
And I'm very, very grateful. It's such a powerful way to communicate with people, you know, because when you watch a film, you're drawn into the story and it disarms you. You know, one of the greatest challenges of preaching is getting my audience to lower their guard. So the way I do it is I use humor, I use illustrations to help them see how this can connect to their world.
But I know the power is in the Word of God. But there's something about a scene in the film, and I have to say with Jesus Revolution, there were times when we were shooting it and a lot of it was shot in Alabama. People are surprised to find that out. Four weeks in Alabama, one week in California.
And it was a substitute for California. But there were certain scenes, I think of one scene in particular, when Lonnie, played by Jonathan Rumi, who also plays Jesus on The Chosen, was speaking at his service. And it's interrupted by a man saying, I need help.
And he prays for him. And as that scene was unfolding, I was sitting in this little chapel with the extras and we're creating, you know, recreating something that happened in real life. I felt like I went back in time. And I said, after it was shot, I said, John, you got lightning and a bottle in this scene. And it's funny because when you see the scene, I feel the same way watching it.
Of course, the music helps and, you know, all the things that you do to give you that final product. But tell me about what you, because it's almost like you were there, but you weren't there. But I tried to help you with as many details as I could. You, of course, studied the Jesus revolution. How is it you're able to take all that data and information and put it into a scene that moves a person emotionally?
That's a great question. And I remember because I was raised in Birmingham, Alabama, basically raised Baptist. And so, you know, the idea of that scene, I kept saying, am I getting this right?
Am I getting this right? And I felt like I was there. And that's sort of the joy of filmmaking. Ken Burns uses this term that I really like called emotional archaeology. And that's sort of the process of taking in a bunch, doing your research almost as an archaeologist and then doing so much of it that you're so immersed as a filmmaker that you can then create the experience for real. And so that's the joy of it. And what's great about it, like right now, I've never read the Psalms so much. And they're coming to life in new ways. And they're influential to me because I'm studying the life of the man that wrote them and trying to make a real experience. And whenever you do that, you end up asking questions or when you wrestle the thing to the ground and make it real, it requires a ton of research and then a ton of work and an army of people.
But there's something magical about it. And I always want to try to get the story right. And Aaron Sorkin says, the great writer says, you know, when you adapt the true story, it's not a photograph, it's a portrait. So you're trying to paint an accurate portrait. So you're making, you know, you're having to composite, compress the story and composite characters. But you're trying to get the essence and the truth of the story right. And you do the best you can. And none of them, I mean, George Lucas said films are never complete.
They're only abandoned. But Jesus Revolution in particular, I wanted to taste the Jesus movement. I wanted to know what it felt like for myself. And I feel like we did that day. And also we decided to film at Pirates Cove, which is a production nightmare because there's a lot of rocks.
It's hard to get in. But I felt like the ground was sacred and that's where it happened and that's where we should go back. And one of the great days of my life was in terms of why I do what I do. Like what I do is I'm an entertainer. And the entertainment business is a hard business.
But why I do what I do. Of course you want the things to work and all the metrics that the entertainment industry would measure things by. But I've always felt that there's this great work going on in Hollywood. But Hollywood's not the hope of the world.
The local church is the hope of the world. And I've always felt like it's my job to set a volleyball that can be spiked at the local level and sort of be an air force. And so we were together at Pirates Cove and I just there was a line of thousands and thousands of people as far as my eye could see and doubled back, thousands of which wanted to be baptized, many, many of whom because they had seen the film. And it was just a moment where I'm like, this is why I do what I do. Well, it's sort of like, you know, there's the expression art imitating life. So Jesus Revolution was art imitating life. But then when we had a baptism, which we call the Jesus Revolution baptism, life was imitating art that was imitating life. But there was a cause and effect there. And I believe we baptized 4,500 people on that day.
It was stunning. But one story that sticks with me is an older man, 85 years old. You talked about how hard it is to get down to Pirates Cove.
And it's true. When I was younger, I used to jump from rock to rock. Now people were helping me, which is really embarrassing.
Here, let me help you. Because I'm 72. But anyway, this 85 year old dude comes. And so it took him forever to get down the stairs. In fact, he was holding up the line.
I was asking, where is everyone? Well, there's an older gentleman and it's hard for him to get down the stairs. But when I heard his story, I felt bad for even saying what I said, because, come on, let's go.
Let's move faster. This guy watched the movie Jesus Revolution. He was moved. He accepted Christ and said, I want to be baptized in the same spot when this movie was shot. And as they were baptizing him, his daughter turned to one of our folks and said, we never thought he would come to Christ. So, you know, the movie reached him where a sermon didn't.
But I want to think about one scene for a moment in that film. And it's when my character, Greg, played by Joe Courtney, is baptized by Jonathan Rumi, who plays Lonnie Frisbee. And then you said to me, Greg, I want to have you get saved right before you're baptized. In real life, I came to Christ.
I'm a high school campus. A lot of times in film we composite events. So, you know, you changed it.
I said, John, as long as I get saved, I'm OK. Just make sure I get saved in the movie. And so you shot that scene. Remember, we had like, what, 45 minutes. It was the golden hour. The sun was setting. We couldn't go back the next day. Tell us what it was like to shoot that scene.
Well, I remember that Jonathan Rumi, who plays Jesus in The Chosen, because we were filming it in the spring. And I was really afraid of the temperature of the water and if it was going to be cold. So he was praying for like a heat wave, which I guess he's got a direct line to God, because there was a heat wave and it was too hot almost.
We almost got shut down from heat. And we're doing this scene and we were doing other parts of that scene. And you could just feel the Spirit of God, I feel, on set. And I say that, I don't say that often.
Baptists from the south. But there was a magic there. And I remember people, extras getting baptized, were actually really getting baptized. And Jonathan came up out of the water and I'm like, I'm doing this exactly as Greg taught me to do it. But these people are making real decisions.
Which I guess, who better to get baptized by than Jesus? And so we got to that last moment. You want to wait on the best light. And we were trying to film it over like a four hour period.
And that didn't work out. So we had 45 minutes to shoot it. And so it's one of my favorite shots in my career and favorite moments is when Jonathan and Joel playing Lonnie and Greg pray. And they kind of touch foreheads and pray the sinner's prayer, which I had not written into the script.
I had just said they pray together. And then I knew, because again, to filmmakers out there, just ask the people that do whatever you're doing for a living. And so I was like, Greg, can you write this prayer?
Because this is what you do. So you wrote the prayer in the movie. And then I wanted to do, it's important if you're a filmmaker to realize that film, it's a symphony of art.
That's why it's so powerful. A lot of different art forms bundled, but it is a language unto itself. It's a visual language. Scorsese talks a lot about that. A pan is like a comma.
A zoom is like an exclamation point. So a part of becoming a filmmaker is basically learning a complex visual and emotional language. And it takes a long time and you have to really dedicate yourself to that craft.
And it's a lifelong quest to try to get better at it. But looking at it as a language is one of the keys of becoming a storyteller in film. And so you're trying to take concepts and translate them into this visual language. And so I wrestled a long time of like, how do I translate the idea of baptism into the visual language of film? And so what we thought is as soon as your character goes under, I wanted to try to use the craft of film to translate, to showcase the concept of rebirth. Because who doesn't want, who doesn't need, put myself in that category to think of just to be reborn, you know, and all that you carry being washed away is just such a powerful concept. And so the idea is what we did is we put Joel in a dive tank on the first day of filming.
Like, welcome to the show. We're going to try to drown you today. In Alabama. In Alabama. And what did you do?
There was COVID tapes. I was down, I'm a diver. So I was down there and he had weights in his hand and the idea was for him to kind of sink.
Yes. And then kind of see the light and then swim up to it. And that was like a spotlight of some kind? Yeah, it was like a spotlight.
And that's what we did. And I'm very proud of that. I love, of all, it's probably my favorite moment in a feature film. That and more recently the end of House of David, not to spoil it, Goliath dies.
But, you know, the David and Goliath encounter in House of David, I feel the same way. But I'm very honored to, you know, you feel like to have anything to do with that moment of film is a privilege. And I'm very, very, very proud of that section of the movie, the movie itself. I love that movie.
And I'm very proud of that baptism sequence. And I just, it gets me emotionally every time I see it. And Brett McCorkle's music and his co-directions is beautiful.
Yeah, everything. Well, shifting gears to House of David. This, people, I have to tell you that this is a masterpiece. And, John, you've taken all of this learning and experience of all of your filmmaking and put it on display in such a beautiful way to tell one of the great stories of the Bible.
The story of the shepherd boy who became the king, David. And from the casting of David, which is an amazing story in itself, to the cinematography. And I had the privilege, you mentioned, of going to Greece and visiting the sets, which were magnificent. I remember walking around in Saul's palace and then in his little bedroom. And then, of course, watching scenes being shot. And then we shot a lot out in Greece. We did a documentary that accompanies House of David called Beyond House of David. And it was such a privilege.
I felt like at times I was going back in time to the story of David. But I think that the casting of David, tell us a little bit about how many people wanted to take this role on. Because this is a huge production on Amazon Prime. It's going to be seen by, what, did you say 200? Well, there's, globally, there's about 250 million Amazon subscribers. It's going out in 25 languages. Wow.
All in one day. And it really is, there's this verse that I love where Paul says of David that he served the purposes of God and his generation. Yes. And I love, you've done that decade by decade in the sense of like, sometimes we hold the wrong thing sacred. The message is sacred. The gospel is sacred. Yeah.
But the methods of getting it to people change with time. Yes, that's right. And that's not what's sacred. Right. And so that's why I think, you know, David said sing a new song. Right. Yes. And so, you know, the idea of using film and television as a new thing to get what's sacred and unchanging to this generation in this time. When the Jesus movement was happening, that's when contemporary Christian music was born.
Correct. In fact, you did a film about that called The Jesus Music, which is fantastic. If you want to know about the birth of contemporary Christian music, watch the documentary. It's The Jesus Music. The Jesus Music. Yeah. But so that was our expression to our culture.
It had never been done before. But now I feel today, it's what you're doing. I feel there's a Christian music industry now.
It's not surprising when you hear a contemporary Christian song. But we've been so far behind Hollywood in our production values, in our storytelling, in our work in general. But I think that's changed. And I think we're not behind anymore.
I think what you're doing, what Dallas Jenkins is doing, we've taken a step ahead. Because you guys are storytellers. That's really what a movie should be ultimately. But so many have an agenda. They want to push an agenda. Often it's a woke ideology or something else where you're telling a Bible story and bringing it to people. And now here it is on a mainstream platform. And I think this is sort of the new expression like music was to the Jesus movement. This is to our time. And you're on the bleeding edge of it. Which is where you bleed for sure. But that's the best place to be. Because I like to use the phrase, we want to reach unexpected people in unexpected places with an unexpected message.
Yes. That's what people are going to see when they watch House of David is it's a faithful retelling of the story. And let's talk about the aspect of how biblical it is. But it's a faithful retelling of the story. But it's very God-honoring.
It's very spiritual in its focus. Because sometimes these stories have been told like they did a movie on the life of Noah with Russell Crowe. They did a movie on the life of Moses with Christian Bale.
And though they had good production values and certain aspects of the films were quite good, they missed the story. Because they deviated so far from the Bible. But you have done the opposite. You're faithful to the Bible. And so what would you say to the question which I hear a lot? Which is, well is this biblical? Yeah, is it, I say that the Bible is the Bible. Yeah. Scripture is scripture. Yes. So this is not scripture. This is a love letter to scripture.
I like that. This is a, hopefully a gigantic cultural billboard. Yes. To say check out the book that will change your life.
Yes. So my hope is that people, and even a lot of people that are Christians when they read the, when they watch the show, they're like, wait, is that in the Bible? And a lot of those, it is. And so it, the goal, the dream of the show, because what I love about David is a story, is David is the hero's journey in the Bible. Explain the hero's journey. So the hero's journey is, so a lot of what guides the entertainment industry is what's called mythic archetypes. There was a, when George Lucas did Star Wars, he was very influenced by a book called Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell. That exploration is, is called comparative mythology. And what Joseph Campbell realized is there was this common story in multiple cultures.
Like Christopher Nolan is filming the Odyssey right now. That was basically a hero's journey. And the idea of someone being beckoned into their destiny, typically by a guide, like in our case, the prophet Samuel. But Gandalf, Obi-Wan Kenobi and those type characters. And a rite of passage, road of many trials to typically die and be reborn as a hero and a symbol of hope. And so those basic, that basic construct of a story is the premise of Star Wars and Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings and a lot of the Marvel movies.
And even movies like Rocky. I've thought a lot about it. Like, why do we need these stories so much? And because Joseph Campbell's point was that these stories have been told in all cultures. Yes.
Even though those cultures couldn't talk to each other for a very long time. And I think it's because we are wired, like it's written on our souls. Two things. It's written on our soul to need a savior, to need a hero. Yes. It's also destiny and purpose is what is the purpose of my life? Do I have a destiny and do I have a role to play in something bigger than me?
Wow. That is written into the human soul. And I think that's why we need these stories. So what I love about House of David is if you don't know anything about the Bible, you're going to feel very familiar. The story is going to feel very familiar to you.
If you like Star Wars and Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings, you're going to be able to orient. And let me add that the production value, the cinematography, the casting, the direction, and everything else is on the scale of those film shows. That's high praise. Tell me again what the Amazon executive said after they read your script. The executives read the scripts, the first few scripts.
They're like, these scripts are really good. I'm like, it's based off a bestseller. It'll change your life. It's free.
You can download it on your phone. We know the author. You know, and so, again, my great hope is that if you haven't read the Bible in a while, or maybe you've not read it ever, of course, start with the Gospel of John. But secondarily to that, if you want to just relate to whatever you're going through in life that's hard, read the Psalms of David. Only about 15% of those Psalms are praise God, my life is great.
Most of the Psalms are like, I need to repent from huge mistakes that I've made. I relate to that. I'm depressed. I'm angry.
I'm afraid. All the range of the human experience is written in the Psalms of David. And these were written by a king who did not have to be this honest. You know, history's been by the victor. They were like David's diarium anyways.
They are. And they're very honest, very autobiographical. But, you know, it's interesting, the Bible says he was the man after God's own heart.
And what a unique description. The way he came back was always, because his heights were as high as his lows were as low. But the way in which he came back to God are the songs that we still sing. That's right. And yeah, so to answer your question on biblical accuracy, season one is about three chapters of the Bible. Yeah. And you think of it like biblical commentary also as a way.
This is, you know, filmmakers wrestling with what's there. Yes. The difference is, you know, when I do Jesus Revolution, I can call you and Kathy and be like, hey, in the fall of 1970, where were you guys?
You know, if I'm doing American Underdog, I can call Kurt and Brenda Warner. So this is, we have scraps, we have the events. Yes. We have the heart of this person in the Psalms. So then it's about the joy of creating a narrative and a story that justifies the limited information that we have. And doing the best we can, but always to revere and honor the themes of the story. And then again, to push people to scripture. That's it.
Not try to replace it. Well, you know, and preachers do this every Sunday. You know, we'll take a text, we'll read it, we'll exposit it, we'll talk about the cultural background, try to explain it in context, what was happening historically. And then, of course, we apply it. It's been said, the sermon begins where the application begins.
People want to know, how does this relate to my life? Okay. So then we'll say, well, it's like this. And we'll illustrate it with things from our life or from culture, what's going on around us and apply it. I don't expect anyone to take my sermon and see it on the same level as scripture itself. I'm a person interpreting scripture, giving my opinions. You can take it or leave it.
But I'm trying to help you connect. And so film, this is in film, you're doing something similar. And I think people just need to understand that's what it is.
Like here's an example of it. There's a scene, powerful scene, when Samuel, who's the actor who plays Samuel? Stephen Lang, the great Stephen Lang, he's amazing. He's so amazing as Samuel. And what I love about Samuel is the scene that sort of sets it up.
You took some liberties in the backdrop of him trying to sort of present who is this guy. And you humanized him in a few scenes because we see this great prophet of the Lord. And you did a beautiful scene with him and his wife where they had some interaction that isn't in the Bible, but it shows he was a human being, which he was. It's hard to look at these biblical characters in a fuller way because we only think of them in one way, but they're very human people like us. But then when he goes into Saul's court and confronts him and tells Saul, you've disobeyed and God has chosen another, that scene is note by note, point by point, verse by verse, exact scripture.
And I was blown away because the scene that led up to it humanized him and gave you context. But then when that scene unfolds, you want to talk about biblical. This was as biblical as it gets.
It's word for word, yeah. And no preacher could come close to bringing that story to life and telling it the way it does in House of David. And one of the phrases to obey is better than sacrifice. I've heard in many, many sermons. And so to dramatize that, it's one of the great speeches in the Bible, and to humanize it and make it real and adding the human element. I love that Slang's, which is his nickname, Stephen Lang, what his take on it was that of almost like a parent having to kick their kid out of the house.
That's an addict that won't change their behavior. And so that's kind of how he portrayed it. And it was very, very good. Wasn't he, like you told me when he was shooting that scene, who's the actor who plays Saul? Ali, yeah.
He's like digging into his head and headbutting him and it was real. Stephen Lang is from the school of James Cameron. He's in all the Avatar films. He also played Ike Clanton in Tombstone. Tombstone, and what does he say?
General, I have no brigade in Gettysburg or whatever. He's just a great character actor. Sure is. And I like it because he's been in a lot of westerns and I felt that no one had really portrayed a prophet of God as formidable as I read them in the Bible. People forget that, first of all, when God says to Samuel, go anoint, there's someone that I want you to anoint. Samuel was afraid. He said, if Saul finds out, he'll kill me. So this anointing of David, it wasn't necessarily a good thing. To be anointed king in a nation that already had a king is like a secret that could get you killed. But then when he goes to Bethlehem, all the men of the city come out, it's like a western. They're like, do you come peaceably?
Like, you gonna cause a problem in this town? And so this guy had a formidable side, but also a very human side. And I think he portrays that well.
And that is the joy of wrestling the material to the ground. An example of Samuel is the people demanded a king in Saul because Samuel's children did not follow in his ways. So he would have felt a failure as a father because of the corruption of his sons.
And so this whole thing of a king in Israel, I think something in Samuel would have carried that. And I think he also would have felt, but wait, I didn't even, I grew up in the temple as a child under a prophet that was also a bad dad, Eli. And the point is that I think he would have been like, I didn't really have a father figure role model because I grew up in the tabernacle or in the temple that existed at the time.
But he was raised by priests, not by parents, basically. And then he struggled as a father while also ruling Israel for 40 years. And it was that that caused the people to ask for a king. So you asked, what would that, and so there's a great line in the confrontation when Samuel, while confronting Saul, says, you know, I loved you like a son. And then Ali says back to him, but your sons didn't love you.
And that's why the people demanded a king. And you just see that punch and you see the grief that he carries. And that's the human element and the fun of exploring these things of, man, what would that have felt like?
Where did you get this? First of all, I've always been impressed by your knowledge of Scripture. And, but where did this all come from? Like this love of the Bible. It surely goes back to your childhood, the way you were raised.
Yeah, what's the love? David says I have a godly heritage, basically. Yes. You have wonderful parents. And I do. And my dad, so, you know, I... Hank, by the way, his father, Hank, if you saw Woodlawn, that's based on the true story of his father, Hank. That's right. And he's played by... Sean Astin.
Sean Astin. And so, and that's back in the Jesus Movement days, as you said. That's right. And so, but your father is a wonderful, godly man, and your mother is so wonderful. But the way they raised you, did you read the Bible every day?
Yeah, there's a few events. One was, you know, one of the things that kind of has gone by the wayside in the modern church is the idea of Sunday school. And I used to go to Sunday school before church, and we did not have a lot of money. We were born and raised, I was born and raised in Birmingham, Alabama. My dad's a dreamer, and he always says, dream bold, dream big, dream the impossible, which I love.
But we had no money, and we would literally go down to, like, the beach. Well, that's quite a statement. So, here's your father saying to you, and your brother, Andy, as well, as a young man, say it again.
Dream bold, dream big, dream the impossible. Where did that come from? I don't know.
He's from my dad. And so, he basically, but we, like, when we would vacation down in Florida, we would, in Panama City Beach, it's called, which is like if alligators formed a society or something, it's a crazy place. But we would go down, literally, off-season, and we're, like, these Christian youth camps would book these places that were, like, bunk beds that were rotting. You could get those for, like, $30 a night, and on the way down, we'd go to Walmart to see how many things we could do for free. You know, and this is how the Irwin family had fun.
So, we didn't have a lot of money. So, I'm in Sunday school, and the Sunday school teacher, there was this stack, and many of which I still remember, of proverbs. And if you said one proverb, you got, like, candy at the end, if you memorized the proverb and said it at the end. And then she said, if someone, if any kid here, I was probably seven, memorizes all 50, I'll take them to six flags.
And I was just, like, I want to go to six flags. And so, me and this one other girl, we memorized all of them, and she took us to six flags. Now, these are proverbs you memorized?
Proverbs, yeah. Okay, let's hear, if you remember any of them, let's hear one. The one that I should probably— Do I need candy to get you to remember?
Yeah, no, yeah, it's true. No, you got to take me to six flags. Yeah, six flags. Like, let other people praise you, even strangers. Never do it yourself is one that sticks out.
But yeah, they were all in NIV, they were easy, you know. So you learned your Bible through bribery, that's what you're telling me? Going to six flags, man.
There's no Sunday school teachers out there, just six flags works. But I actually realized that I could remember it, and then because of my dad, you know, I was encouraged and somewhat forced, in hindsight, it was great to read the Bible cover to cover multiple times. And then there was a mentor at this place called World Life Island, a guy named Rick, that encouraged me to take an epistle and read it 50 times in 50 days. And he was like, you'll be able to quote it at the end.
I'm like, because when you're a teenager, your mind is a sponge. And so I memorized, and it was true, and I memorized Philippians and 2 Timothy and James. And when I was 16, though, the Bible just really, I went to Israel with my dad. He bought me a camera with money he did not have. It came in on like a Wednesday.
I had no idea how to use it. And we went to Israel to do a documentary called In the Steps of Jesus, just me and him. And because there was just the two of us, we stayed in the old city of Jerusalem at this place called Christ Church.
And so we were walking around the old city at night, like Indiana Jones. What year would this have been? 97, 98, I guess. 98. And so the Bible...
I remember I was leading the tour at that exact year. Are you really? And we saw this man with the kid with the camera, and I said, that kid will never amount to anything.
That'll never go anywhere. But, you know, again, I'm raised Baptist. So in terms of the charismatic experience, you know, it's not how I was raised. And so if I have any of those experiences, they're definitely an anomaly. But I remember being in the old city, walking the stations of the cross.
Yes. And in the Via Dolorosa. And there's places that you put your hand, like an indention. That, you know, it is said, you know, by tradition that that's where Jesus's hand would have gone to balance himself as he carried the cross. And I remember putting my hand there, and I swear to you, I felt like an electrical shock in my body. It was like it was the weirdest experience, but I felt the magic of history. And the Bible came to life.
So these two things merged, my trips to Six Flags, and then Scripture memory. All of a sudden, it became real. You know, so a very interesting thing, you would watch movies, but they were edited by your parents. Yes, I've seen a version of 101 Dalmatians without Cruella de Vil. Because, and it's weird, it's like a bunch of dogs running around. Why did they edit out Cruella de Vil? I don't know. My mom had a women's Bible study, and we did not go to the theater.
Because we were raised very conservative. And what I love about that is, so my mom, the VCR was the craze. So they stacked like 20 VCRs. And they would, they would dub, they would tape movies off AMC and TMC, the TV channels. And they would dub the dubs, they would dub them, and then they would, well, it was technically piracy. Your parents did this though? My mom's Bible study, and they would distribute the tapes, not realizing they were breaking all the laws, of which my household depends on now. And in many instances, they would edit the movies, and that got a little out of control.
I'm trying to put these threads together, so it's a learning of Scripture at a very young age. But yet, and your mother was into editing film as well. But then, what kind of films did you watch? Because I think you've mentioned Frank Capra was one of your favorite filmmakers. One of the ways that I think you can understand a hundred years of film history, is it's a conversation between filmmakers, even if they didn't know each other. Looking at each other's work, building on each other's work. So I think if you want to be a director, or a writer, producer, it's very important. If you look at a filmmaker like Tarantino, it's obvious that he's obsessed with cinema, and the history of cinema, and that's a big part of his work. Once upon a time in Hollywood. And he cites, Picasso said, good artists copy, great artists steal.
So you have to absorb a bunch of work. You were a quote machine. You should put a book out with all of your quotes. It's because I memorized those cards and went to Six Flags. But basically, we didn't watch modern films.
I wasn't allowed to go to the theater. But we watched, but I had this film history. So it was a ton of John Ford, John Wayne, and like the old Bing Crosby, Bob Hope, road comedies. And the greats, Casablanca, and Citizen Kane, and Ben Hur, and Lawrence of Arabia. What would you say, if you pick like four films that you'd say, these are my favorite films that I just love to watch over and over, and maybe even inspire me to this day.
Would it be the ones you've mentioned or others? No, I think as I grew, and then Capra became a massive influence. The films of Frank Capra, the optimism of Frank Capra.
Mr. Smith goes to Washington. It's a wonderful life. But even his comedy, he did a comedy, Arsenic and Old Lace, that I love. Again, or like there's a movie, not a Capra movie, but His Girl Friday, that there was a certain pace in the rhythm and the dialogue that you see influences Sorkin, for instance. Again, so you just see the conversation of filmmakers. So then when I was 16, my dad took me to the re-release of Star Wars in theaters when they added a bunch of VFX and stuff.
And that was a moment for me. And then I started getting obsessed with modern films. And my films, I'm a very, I like epic, event-worthy movies.
I do. And so I love, you know, Braveheart to me is, if I was locked on an island for the rest of my life or something with one movie, it would probably be Braveheart. It's like chicken soup for the soul, and I think that Randall and Mel, I know you know both of them, did an unbelievable job. And they're working together on the passion sequel as well.
It's a dynamic duo. They also did the movie We Were Soldiers together, which is fantastic. Yeah, Randall actually directed that.
He did. Mel starred in it. And so, you know, Braveheart, the original Gladiator, I also feel like the original Fellowship of the Ring was such a, I remember the theater I was in.
I remember the seat in the theater that I was in. But I also love, like I watched with my daughter, you know, Slumdog Millionaire. And you know, I love how Danny Boyle's optimism, you know, kind of gets into that movie. The King's Speech.
There's a lot of movies that I love. Wrapping this up, like let's say there's a young John Irwin out there, and maybe they're a filmmaker, maybe they're a musician, maybe they're an artist, maybe they're a preacher. But they want to express their faith, you know, in the future. They want to follow that saying of your father, Hank, you know, dream bold, dream big, dream the impossible. Yeah, so what advice would you give to them to see maybe those dreams come true? That's a great question. To compare it to the story of David, I think a lot of us overestimate wildly what we can do in the short term.
We'll have a New Year's resolution and I'm going to lose 40 pounds this month or something. And then we underestimate what we can do in the long term with a little bit of consistency. And it's just, I like this quote, success is long obedience in the same direction. And I think that I like the story of David from the time that he was anointed to the time there was actually a crown on his head. It was like 15 years.
A lot of hardship in those years. And I think for me, I wrote a script to David in 2012 as a movie. I don't know if it was any good.
I got to go read it again. But I needed the growth, you know, and I needed to try to, you know, in faith film, there's been, we call it the gap between the industry and the audience in the sense that you have things that are authentic to the audience, but very poorly made. You have things that are very well made, but completely inauthentic and sometimes a betrayal to the audience. And we've been trying to close that gap by just trying to get better and better at what we do. You know, Steve Martin said to try to be undeniably good, you know, and that takes a long time.
And so what I would say is don't, you know, if there's a young filmmaker out there that wants to, as Denzel Washington said, you know, if you want what I have, then do what I did. You know, it takes a long time and it's worth it. And so to me, it's like just put one foot right in front of the other. And if you can combine, in my mind, the two great virtues that are kind of under celebrated, if you can combine curiosity, so you're learning all the time with pain tolerance and just never give up and outlast everybody around you, eventually you'll break through. When you break through, it's not going to be the way you thought it would happen.
And it's going to take a whole lot longer than you think, but it's worth it. And so and I think also I found that don't put your identity in your work. You know, your identity has to be in your relationship to the Lord and just try to chase growth, not success. Try to get better at what you do. I found that success has its own set of problems that people don't realize.
So just if you can just every day get a little better at what you do and be dedicated and disciplined to improvement, eventually you'll break out and break through. And, you know, one of the other things that my dad said to me, which was profound, I didn't believe it when he said it. But he said, hey, if you love this thing, this camera that I bought you, give it 20 years and 20 years you'll be. And very few people say that. So what year did he give it to you?
So from the time he gave it to me to the breakout hit of I Can Only Imagine was almost exactly how interesting. And so and so I think that that people don't think of it that way. The camera still? That's what?
No, I don't. But but, you know, I think the idea of like if you what I tell young filmmakers is if there's the entertainment as an industry is hyper competitive, blood sport, crazy. But what we get to do is amazing in it. And so if you it's undeniably good. And so and so if you I tell people, if you can do anything else and be happy, you should probably do that. I'm sure you say the same thing to people that want to be a pastor. I've said that. But if almost if you can't not do it, if you are compelled.
Yeah. Then that's a that's a signature that maybe you're called to do it. And if you're called to do it, the key is just never, ever, ever, ever give up and constantly learn.
And if you can do both those things over a prolonged period of time, eventually you'll your dreams will come true. Just in a way that that you don't expect and in a way that will take a lot longer than you think. Wow.
Great advice from John Irwin. Well, John, thanks for taking time to talk about this. Congratulations on the House of David. Go out to the Amazon Prime video platform and start watching it now.
You're going to love it. Thanks again. Thank you. Hey, everybody.
Thanks for listening to my podcast. Before you go, I wanted to let you know about the important work we're doing here at Harvest. You know, we've had the same goal these last 50 years, which is simply this. We want to know God and we want to make him known. And we do that in a lot of ways. Documentary films, animation, radio, television, large scale evangelistic events and more. If you want to be a part of what we're doing to fulfill the great commission, you can support us with whatever you can give at harvest.org slash donate. Again, that's harvest.org slash donate and thanks so much.
