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Can I Lose My Salvation (pt.2)

Clearview Today / Abidan Shah
The Truth Network Radio
January 18, 2023 9:00 am

Can I Lose My Salvation (pt.2)

Clearview Today / Abidan Shah

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January 18, 2023 9:00 am

In this show, Dr. Shah wraps up this important discussion on the book of Hebrews and the issue of losing salvation.

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Hey, everyone. Today is Wednesday, January the 18th. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. And you're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abaddon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart with the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at If you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for future episodes, make sure you send us a text at 252-582-5028. You can also email us at contact at

That's right. You guys can help us keep the conversation going by supporting this podcast, sharing it online, leaving us a good review on iTunes, Spotify, Amazon, wherever you get your podcasts. And we're going to leave a link to those places in the description so that you can go and do that.

We want to set you up for success, so you in turn can set us up for success. And if you don't do that, at least say something nice. And we will read those reviews, so be nice. Yes, we've been reading reviews on the air, so we appreciate that. I'm not going to read the one that says, I want my money back. And this is a free podcast, too. That was crazy. Apple paid the guy, but... No, don't do that. That's a bad precedent.

That's right. Go ahead and give us the verse of the day, Jon. This is coming from Joshua 4 and 23 and 24.

For some reason, I was like, Joshua who? For the Lord your God dried up the waters of the Jordan before you... Oh, I'm sorry. For the Lord your God dried up the waters of the Jordan before you, until you had crossed over, as the Lord your God did to the Red Sea, which he dried up before us until we had crossed over, that all the peoples of the earth may know the hand of the Lord that is mighty, that you may fear the Lord your God forever. Dr. Shaw and I were talking about this one time, but a lot of biblical imagery centered around water is meant to represent chaos or the unknown or fear of the future. So when the people of Israel go out of Egypt, God parts the waters of the Red Sea, but then that generation dies off, and then Joshua leads the next generation into the promised land, and then we have another episode of God parting or stopping water for them to cross through and receive his promise. And I love that parallel because these people who are going into the promised land now were old enough to remember what happened or to at least have had that story relayed to them by their fathers who came out of Egypt. Well, I think you even see it in the New Testament too.

I mean, think about Jesus, you know, not parting the sea, but calming the wind and the waves and walking on water, just this complete control over chaos, bringing order into a chaotic, tumultuous sea, I guess. It's very intentional imagery. It's very beautiful. I got one for you. This was actually submitted. This was submitted by Ralph S. Nice. Thanks, Ralph. Thanks, Ralph.

A million dollars. Okay. Any time that you go to a restaurant, you basically have to bring a Lunchables, and that's your meal. Oh, I have to have that instead of the restaurant food? Yeah.

Oh, okay. A couple questions. Can I choose the Lunchable?

Ralph did not specify. I'm going to say yeah. Okay. I wouldn't even go so far as if you want to get the max Lunchables. I'm going for the Taco Bell Lunchables.

Yes. I had an argument with Ellie the other night saying that she did not remember Taco Lunchables. And I said, Ellie, there were Taco Lunchables.

She said, prove it. And then I pulled up the old commercial where the Taco Bell Lunchable is facing down the bag lunch in the street at an old Western saloon. Yeah.

New Taco Bell Lunchable snack packs. Okay. So, I would pick those. Is this a sit-down restaurant or a drive-through or both?

I'm going to say you go into... I'm going to say, again, Ralph did not specify. You've got to give us some specifics.

You've got to give us the parameters. You know Ryan's going to try to get around it. I'm thinking...

If there's a loophole, trust him, we'll find it. I'm going to say it's a sit-down restaurant. Drive-through is fine.

Okay. So, if you go into a sit-down restaurant, they're like, and you, sir? And you'd be like, oh, no, thank you, Garçon.

And they'd bring out your Lunchables. I'm all set. I'm all set. Yeah, I'll take that. A million dollars and you just bring a... You're going to look like a little kid. Sure.

How about this? Can I order a meal from the restaurant to go and then eat the Lunchable there? No, absolutely not. You have to... That Lunchable is my meal. Yeah.

You have to be like, this is my meal. Thank you. I love that. Thank you for offering. I'm all set. So, you go to an Angus barn, swanky, real nice, black tie. You bring it.

You're like, no, sir. I'm all set. You bring out your Lunchables. And the Taco Lunchables? You can choose it each time. I'm not going to like it because that's forever. No, you can choose it every... Are you talking about the Taco Lunchables is forever? No, no, no.

I mean that having Lunchables instead of a sit-down meal. Yeah, that's bad. That's bad. I wouldn't like it, but I'll take it. Okay. Well. I'll take it.

Uh, Ralph, if you want to cut the check, I guess go ahead and mail it to... That's R-Y-A-N at And get him some Lunchables. There you go. Cool. Well, guys, we have an exciting episode planned for you guys. We're going to go grab Dr. Shaw in just a second. But if you have any questions or suggestions for future episodes, make sure you send us a text at 252-582-5028. Visit us online at or make sure you follow along on all of our social medias, Facebook and Instagram.

We'll be right back. Good morning, afternoon, evening Clear View Today listeners. My name is John.

And I'm David. And we just want to take a quick second and let you know about another way that you can keep in touch with Dr. Shaw's work. And that is his weekly podcast series, Sermons by Abaddon Shaw, PhD. As a lot of you may know, or maybe some of you don't know. If you don't know, you do now. And if you don't know, then maybe just pop off the podcast. David, pop off the podcast.

I'm just playing. Keep listening. Dr. Shaw is actually the lead pastor of Clear View Church in North Carolina. Every single weekend he preaches expository messages that challenge and inspire us to live God-honoring lives. Well, one of the four core values of Clear View Church is that we're a Bible-believing church. So every sermon is coming directly from scripture, which is great because that guarantees that there are timeless truths that are constantly applicable to our lives. This is a great resource because whether you're driving, whether you're cleaning the house, whether you're working out, you can always benefit from hearing the Word of God spoken into your life. And God's Word is always going to do something new for you every time you hear it.

Sometimes it's conviction and sometimes it's encouragement. But know that every time you listen to God's Word, you're inviting the Holy Spirit to move and work in your life. You guys can check out the Sermons by Abaddon Shaw PhD podcast. First and foremost, check it out on our church app. That's the Clear View app. You can get that in the Google Play Store. You can get that on iTunes. But you can also find the podcast on the Apple podcast app or on our website at And listen, if you've got a little extra time on your hands, you just want to do some further reading, you can also read the transcripts of those sermons.

Those are available on Dr. Shaw's website, And we're going to leave you guys a little link in the description so you can follow it. But for right now, David, let's hop back in.

All right. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abaddon Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart with the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at, or if you have any questions or suggestions for future episodes, send us a text at 252-582-5028. Dr. Shaw, welcome to the studio today. Hey, good to see you guys again. Amen. It's hump day. Y'all know what that means, right? It's time to record. Well, I was just going to say it's windy.

That's all that means. I thought there was like off-screen going to be a camel that comes in here or something. Like, hump day. What if the camel came in and said hump day with sunglasses? No, we're getting crazy.

I would be scared. It's crazy. I just got to see some of this. Production elements are getting out of hand here. Well, I'm so sorry to all of you who are joining in for the first time if this is your first time.

There are no camels. If this is your first time ever tuning into the show, we want to welcome you. Dr. Abaddon Shaw is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. And if you're thinking to yourself, I would love to follow his work.

Well, I got good news for you. You can go to his website, Make sure you visit that website. We love to see traffic on that website. That's right. And we've been seeing it going up and up and up ever since we started the show. We're thankful to you guys for checking out the website, following the transcripts of the sermons, checking out this show and just supporting it and supporting Dr. Shaw's work.

Big, big help. That's right. And on today's episode, we're continuing a conversation that began over the course of the past few episodes. We've been in the book of Hebrews, and we've kind of been diving deep into what Hebrews means, to whom it was written, why was it written, specifically around this issue of like, can I lose my salvation or not? I know that's a question on people's minds a lot. We hear that a lot.

We've heard of that from you a lot. People texting in, writing in after we covered it in one episode. So we're going to continue to dive deeper into that today. On the past few episodes, we've talked about, you know, what it means that the book is even titled Hebrews. Dr. Shaw, do you want to kick our discussion off today? Just talk about where we're headed in today's episode.

Absolutely. Well, it all began when we were dealing with that passage in Hebrews where it says, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, which is Hebrews 10.25. And then I made a statement, you know, a couple of shows back about how this is not about losing salvation, because some people have come to the book of Hebrews and have walked away with that conclusion. And then, of course, we heard from people saying, wait, wait, what did you mean by that?

Many were not even aware of the issue. Many were aware of the issue, but kind of thinking, yes, based on the several passages, five to be exact, we call them the five warning passages in the book of Hebrews. When you read them just on the surface, it's almost seems like Paul. We've already established that in a way. Well, hopefully we can have a show on Paul and the authorship.

I'm looking forward to that episode. But we discussed how it's not about losing salvation. In fact, it has nothing to do with that. And when we talked about this yesterday on our show, we looked at the context. We try to understand why did he even address them as Hebrews?

Because he was invoking, if I may say, their pedigree. He was calling them to go back and examine who they are as God's people. So for us, it would be like colonists or pilgrims. If Paul was writing to us today, he would say pilgrims, not John Wayne, pilgrim, pilgrim. You can't lose your salvation, pilgrims. I heard it all the time growing up.

But here, you know, it has some meaning. It's like, okay, we have established you folks belong to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's lineage. Yes, you belong to the Israelites. Yes, you belong to the tribe of Judah. But don't forget, you are Hebrews. You were given all those elements, so to speak, of the law of Moses, even Melchizedek way back, Aaron, the sacrifices, the ordinances, all that was done so that one day the Messiah would come and you will leave the inferior and go to the superior. But this, in this massive church, I don't know how massive it was, in this big church, a small element was pulling away.

And who were this element based on reading the epistle of Hebrews? They were second generation Jewish background believers who were slipping back into the old faith. They were going back to the temple. They were going back and really, you know, feeling like, ah, yes, now, you know, just to see the priest doing a sacrifice or just to read the law in the precincts of the temple, it just makes your heart feel so full or whatever.

And Paul is telling them, what are you doing? Why are you going back? Why are you going back? Because if you go back, you're going back to the inferior.

I mean, just think one more time. Can I read that passage once again from Hebrews chapter one and verse one? It's a God who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets.

Again, folks, I challenge you, not just encourage you, challenge you to really study Hebrews carefully if you have this whole, you know, if you have a struggle with the whole salvation issue. Whose fathers? The Gentiles' fathers? No, this is being talked to, this is being said to the Jewish background believers, their fathers. Has in these last days spoken to us by his son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, means he is superior, through whom also he made the worlds.

He was always superior. Who being the brightness of his glory in the express image of his person means the priest could not have been that, neither were the sacrifices. Only Jesus can be the perfect image of the father and upholding all things by the word of his power. The priest can only do so much. Moses could only do so much. Melchizedek could only do so much. But Jesus's very word holds up the entire universe.

When he had himself purged our sins, not just Aaron, you know, offering a lamb to purge somebody else's sins or the sins of the nation, Jesus himself purged our sins. Right. Sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high. No one else had the authority. No angel, no seraphim, no cherubim can ever sit next to God, but Jesus. Why? Because he is one with the father.

Okay. There is a hierarchy. It's a father and then the son. And of course, and the Holy Spirit from the father and the son. But he is co-equal in his substance.

Having become so much better than the angels, as he has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. More. You see the word more shows up again and again. So this is what Paul is telling them.

Why are you going back to the less when you have the more? It almost seems like if you had this wonderful thing that was delivered to you, maybe it was like this gift that you've been waiting on, this thing that you had your heart set on, like you have this thing finally, and you're like, wow, this is so wonderful. This is so amazing. And then you are just sort of like fiddling with the wrapping paper or the box or something. My kids did that when they were little at Christmas. It was like, we got this gift for them and it was what they wanted. And they were so excited about it.

And then I'd catch them playing with the box. I'm like, what are you doing? Well, you see it a lot in modern churches too. When churches start to do things, they start to innovate. They start to find ways to reach people on a broader spectrum. You always see people like, well, I know, but I just, I just loved it when we used to do this or when we used to keep, say the creeds. And we used to do all these things that just made me feel good about my soul. You see people yearning for what they know and yearning for what's comfortable. Not that there's anything bad or evil about doing those things, but they just are yearning for a safe feeling.

They're shadows, right? They're just, they have a purpose, but the goal is Christ and His word, amen. Christ and the Bible. So one way we know that Paul was encouraging them to stay together is by examining, as one of my professors said one time, in fact, he wrote a paper on this, how much lettuce is in the Bible? How much lettuce is in the Bible? How much lettuce is in the Bible? Well, I, I've never really... You're not a lettuce guy.

I'm not a lettuce guy at all, but I'm, but I'm not, I don't have like a version. Let us. Oh, I see. I knew what he was going for.

I was leaning into the bit. Don't play like you, don't play like you do. So there is a grammatical category that I want to introduce our listeners to, our viewers to. It is first person, plural, subjunctive. First person, plural.

First person, we know what it is. You know, I, but plural, we, or us, subjunctive. What is subjunctive? Well, when, when it is used, it communicates probability. Okay. Typically it's probability, but here in this context, first person, plural, subjunctive has a sense of plea and encouragement. Let us.

It is found about 19 times in the letter. Wow. Yeah. So if these people have lost their salvation, we can just let us, let us keep running. Let us run the race that is set, but I mean, we can't do that because we got to get them saved first.

Right. So we, it's like this, this idea of we got to come together and do this. We have to be together. We have to be united.

And it's, it's, it's, it's an action verb, but it's not just me. It's us. And if the salvation is missing, then there's no longer an us. You are not part of the, the we, or the culture.

I can't even say us. Exactly. Right.

Let you go and get saved. Right. Well, I think this is so we can once again be an us. Yeah. I mean, that even goes back to the, the, what we were talking about on Monday. And I think even you guys were talking about on Friday of last week is this idea of being connected. Yeah. You have to, you can't do it alone because the, the impact is not the same.

It's not at all the same. And like you were saying, if you were a part of a body, if you're part of a collective, when one part fails, it affects the other parts. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let me get read for a few of them.

Is that okay? Maybe y'all can read some of these too. Let me begin with the Hebrews 2.1. Therefore, we must, we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard.

If these people have already fallen away, I mean, there's no sense in bringing them back. Hebrews 3.6, but Christ has a son over his own house whose house we are. If we hold fast. If we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. So there is a place for us to finish the race, to stay firm to the end. What God told Joshua after Moses died, Moses, my servant is dead.

You get up and go. Only be strong and courageous. God is calling his people to be strong and courageous ever since the beginning of time.

Be strong and courageous, finish the race. When you drift away, you're going contrary to the message of the book of Hebrews. Hebrews 3.14, for we have, this is part past tense. We have become partakers of Christ. If we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Yeah. If we hold it.

Right, right. Hebrews 4.1, therefore, since a promise remains of entering his rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. So if you take away the context of their Jewish, you know, pedigree or their Jewish background, definitely I will, if that wasn't there, I would say, wow, these people lost their salvation. We got to bring them back. But how can Jewish people lose their salvation? When everything they were doing culminated in Christ and they came to Christ.

For them to go back is like, uh, it's, I don't even know what to say to you. What, there is no sacrifice left. Yeah. Remember the Paul says that here. He said there is no, uh, what is it? Let me see if I can find the passage right here. It is, um, it's Hebrews 6.4. It says, for it is impossible for those who were once enlightened and have taste of the heavenly gift and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit and have taste of the good word of God and the powers of the age to come.

If they fall away to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves, the son of God and put him to an open shame. I mean, what, what is left to do? I mean, we got to get Christ back down again and redo the whole thing.

Redo it cause it didn't take. Cause you are reverting back. I mean, there's nothing to revert back to. Yeah.

So that I'm glad you brought that up. That's a great point because people often hold those verses up as like a proof text of like, this is, see, this is Paul talking about, or I mean, if they don't, Paul wrote Hebrews, um, people falling away, like if they fall away, but Paul here is using, he's using intentionally exaggerated language. He's talking about this is like, this is an absurd possibility. Absurd possibility for a people who were all this time doing things so they could be done with it when the real thing comes.

The real thing came, you accepted it, but now you want to go back and play with shadows again. Uh, there's nothing left. I think there's another one. I think there's another one, Dr. Shah, the Hebrews 10 26. Um, for if we sin willingly after we've received the knowledge of the truth, then there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. I think that's the one. I don't know if that's the one I was referring to. I mean, this is throughout Hebrews.

It's amazing. Once you put on the glasses of second generation Jewish background believers slipping away from the larger body, it all begins to make sense. Right.

Right. Cause if you take that away, then all this thing about fathers and Moses and angels and covenant and ordinances and blood of bulls and goats doesn't make any sense. Well, I think we do that very human thing to do, which is if I don't have context, I'm just going to put myself in it. And so of course, yeah, if I put myself in place of this random, cause I think that's one thing we do is when we're reading the Bible, reading it for ourselves, which is not necessarily bad, but Paul is writing for a specific purpose. So if it's towards me, you know, what else could it mean except for leadership salvation, but it's not towards me. At least not at first. I am not the lens for scripture. Right. That's what I'm trying to say.

Yeah. Here's some more Hebrews 4.1. Therefore, since a promise remains of entering his rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to come short of it.

I think I already read that Hebrews 4.11. Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. Who's disobedience? Not the disobedience of the Mycenaean Greeks or the disobedience of the Ptolemaic Egyptians or the ancient Egyptians or the Mesopotamians.

No, no. The disobedience of those in the wilderness. You know, those in the wilderness, by the way, you know, they died, but they are going to be in heaven. They could not enter the rest of God, the land of rest. But keep in mind, they crossed to the Red Sea. They were led by the angel of God, Jesus Christ. They were saved. They went through with their deliverance. They went through with their deliverance. They never got the rest of the Christian life. Rest is the peaceful. It's no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me.

Right. They never got to experience that. It's so crazy how people can try to not separate the, what am I trying to say? Like they don't even consider that getting to heaven is the only thing that matters. And so it's like the rest, they just associate that with heaven because I'm not living them. The rest is in this life, but it's not a rest from labor or a rest from battles. It's the rest that comes knowing that it's not me, but Christ in me who lives the Christian life. All I have to do is keep my eyes on Him.

Right. Hebrews 4.14, seeing that we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, Son of God, let us hold faster confession. See all the letters in the Bible?

It's leafy and green. Hebrews 4.16, let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Hebrews 6.1, therefore leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God. Hebrews 10.22, let us draw near with a true heart and full assurance of faith, having a heart sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works. And then of course the famous one, which most of us may know, Hebrews 12.1. Somebody want to read that?

Go ahead. Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily ensnares us and let us run with the endurance, the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. So our example is Christ, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. That's what we are called to do.

Beautiful, beautiful. And then of course, Hebrews 12.14. Pursue peace with all people and holiness without which no one will see the Lord. Looking carefully, lest anyone fall short of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness springing up, cause trouble and by this many become defiled. So there may have been some bitterness coming into this group.

I don't know what the reasons are or were. Could it be that Gentile background believers had come in and this second generation Jewish background believers felt like, you know, look at these guys, who are they? They should be coming to us. They should be coming through us.

But they're sitting on the same level as us. Who do they think they are? Maybe that's what happened.

Maybe somebody didn't include them, or maybe somebody didn't recognize them. Who knows? But a sense of bitterness came in and with bitterness came, you know what? Let's go to the temple this week. I just want to go to the temple. Y'all want to go to the temple? Just something to make us feel good.

My mom and daddy used to take us to the temple. Yeah. Get a palate cleanser in there. Yeah. Let's just go there. It just makes me feel so. And Paul is telling them, don't let any root of bitterness get in there.

You're having a rough day. People are not acting right. Don't let that corrupt you. Hebrews 12.20. Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace by which we must serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. Hebrews 13.13. Therefore, let us go forth to him outside the camp bearing his reproach. Hebrews 13.15. Therefore, by him, let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God that is the fruit of our lives, giving thanks to his name. Yeah.

Beautiful. I love that the shift in understanding has gone from is this passage or are these passages about me losing my salvation, right? The I, me language to let us, we need one another.

I love that shift. Not like this is what the text actually means, but in our own understanding, away from ourselves onto togetherness. I mean, the application, I would say is very simple. Of course, you're not a Jewish background believer from the second generation. Okay. He can be that you're not.

The application is don't let anybody do anything in church other than not preach the word of God, right? Go against anything else. Work it out. Don't let that cause you to detach from God's people. Yeah. Yeah.

And if someone's looking for a, just a one word answer, like, so, okay, I've listened to all three episodes. Can I lose my salvation or not? The answer is absolutely not. There you go.

Absolutely not. Stay, stay moving forward. Stay loving the body of Christ. Don't let anything take you away from there and encourage one another to press on.

Beautiful. Amen. If you guys enjoyed today's topic or you have questions or suggestions about future topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028. Or you can visit us online at and you can support us financially on that same website. Just click that donate button right there. All of your gifts go to building up this partnership where us together, you, us at this table, we can reach people. We can reach the nations with the gospel of Jesus Christ. We're thankful for your partnership and the impact we've seen from that already and we should continue to be obedient to God and giving. Amen.

Go ahead. I'm sorry. No, I was just gonna say, we have a question coming in from Ryan R. Where did you attend high school? St. Aloysius High. Oh. A convent school, Catholic school. Really?

Back in India. Yeah. Did you see, like, nuns and stuff? Absolutely.

Really? Yeah. Nuns in real life? Oh yeah.

Yeah. So I've heard stories. I have people who, in my life, who grew up in a Catholic school and they have told stories about the nuns, like, hitting with rulers. Is that accurate or is that exaggerated? That's accurate.

They hit you with the ruler. Oh yeah. But, but here's the thing.

I'm so grateful for them. You know, yeah. You know, we, we, we have a distinct way of believing about who Christ is, but at the same time, man, there were some godly people there. Amen. Yeah.

They knew the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. Yeah. Cool. That's awesome. Well, we love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview today.
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-01-18 13:08:49 / 2023-01-18 13:22:14 / 13

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