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December 18, 2019 7:00 am
Why is the president found online or you have questions about why now distorted only health profile: 24.18772072276 and the other trouble on the Facebook video feed with the two sodas right now so I'll get that going the right will give you a call 772072276 of your newbie to the show. We got into Bible questions talk little condo stuff and setting up some debates so one on eternal security one on let's see on free will and determinism and decrees and free will not topic something there, nothing in getting bills and byway reminder to let you know that if you are interested in supporting us. All you gotta do was go to Carl.org/donate and we would love that. Now tell you that were doing matching funds derived in the year, matching funds drive. So whatever you donate will be matched and that's what you guys know about that people are doing that.
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Let's get to Matt for Michigan show you're on the air. I met Michael sure we have a question about God's attribute, and making a bit lately about Murthy route love and if you like some of the attribute have always been on display by God and some of them have only been known. I got both creation or something like that. So could you talk a little bit about that. Have any of that changed like heavy always been merciful. Even though there was no one on meeting Murthy to be shown the Florida Corporation is a good question to see what we talked about a couple things.
One of them is called emergent properties and so God ontologically exists as he is in the Trinitarian sense. So to help answer this. Let me kind of step sideways and talk about God. What if you are a unity as in a single being who is only one person. So we would talk about God is the one person okay let's just say that God is one person, but not triune. That would mean then that forever God was having no fellowship, no fellowship, there was no love to be had. There was no love to be expressed. There was no mercy to be shown. There was nothing because God would be by himself so in the Unitarian sense we have problems here will get you much more that so when we talk about a property of God is a property exist because his nature exists in the Trinitarian context, God exists as a Trinity for forever. And in that context of forever. God was having eternal fellowship inside the Trinitarian communion so the attributes of glyphosate fellowship was eternally realized in the Trinitarian communion and it would be necessary. Property of his essence in his nature because nature Trinitarian so that's not a problem at all.
In the Unitarian sense there would be no fellowship to be had at all because God is not triune so at what point do we say a properties emergent so in the Trinitarian sense could God be merciful well by himself would say no. We would say however that mercy is an emergent property of God when other situations arise when the fall of people occurs God demonstrates mercy. He also demonstrates justice to assist with mercy and forgiveness because there would, mercy, forgiveness would not exist for eternity until God arrange things and we exist so we would say that mercy is an emergent property of God, but we would not say that it's a new property because that would mean that the very essence nature of God's existence wasn't always the same identical. We can't have that. So what worst kind of written web action wrestling with these issues. I literally slid my wife about this today and if there's others. I'm talking to about this. What's the difference in the ontological essence of God with his emergent properties as it relates to the Trinitarian being versus a Unitarian being in IDs or discussions of having any of your thoughts and go. I'm running through to your questions really interesting question for me, but this time so that anyway so mercy would be could say. One such is an emergent property has to be a property that's already part of what God's nature is and so we would say that just manifest at that time you can note there can be no alteration. God's essence because properties reflect the essence itself is a property that exists its exist because it was already there in the property of of God and Unitarian sense that's more problematic because in the Unitarian sense of God.
There is no fellowship there is no love, and if there was love by nature in the Godhead. How can love be manifested in so that's a serious problem because the nature of love is utter centered in the Trinitarian sense we could have an eternal communion and in love with the Trinitarian God had for forever and so love it's Bible suspicion for a God is love. We can see it manifested in the context of the Unitarian being the idea of God being love. God is love makes no sense because how is there a nature and expression of that love.
The Bible says God love the world gave in. The greatest act of love, self-sacrifice, love is other expression and so there would be no means for eternity to express that nature is with a problem in Unitarianism anyway. These are just some of the thoughts were dealing with and trying to work through on the issue of why God must by necessity be Trinitarian to solve that logically.
But it's a matter I hoped you would all his confusion, some more so if you come in general that is very helpful that variable, I've been thinking, especially Romans 922. What if God desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power and endured with much patient rep. The destruction in order to make known the riches of the glory for the Murthy record and it is that he take this to be logically prior to winning a decretal thing you can correct me if I'm on a Mac, but at that time he desired to show his rapid sound like a raft with something that he added that time and that's is kind of confusing to me because there was no one around, but done anything wrong. Now is talk about something called counterfactual's so God who knows all things, knows all things actual as well as potential.
He knows all things that exist in all things that might have existed under different circumstances that are called counterfactual's they don't exist. They won't have existence, but they could have existed under different circumstances. And God knows those this were monism likes to work and it has some merit in that except that monism undermines and has problems and issues of human free will. Total depravity will be another so when God exists Sieg exist forever and for chapter 20 says that he knows all things. So there can be no sense in which God increases in knowledge. This means he is an infinite knowledge at that point before the creation of the universe of all of counterfactual's of all potentialities. He knows every potential existence that could be and so let's just say just to use 100 as a representation of all those different methods all the different universe is a God could have created where is that I'm wearing a shirt today. Everything in the entire universe is identical, but in a different actuality. If God had brought it into existence. I would been wearing a different shirt and God can choose which he wants to bring about. That's not a problem. So then we had a side question of does God always do what's best if God has perfect knowledge is perfect wisdom. Then it makes sense to say that God would only and could only do that which is the very best, according to all his knowledge and so and all potentialities or court of counterfactual's he would pick a universe which could only exist that he desires to exist, and everything in that university knows all things will be part and parcel to what he would be decreeing would exist Nellies. There's a direct decree in an indirect decree God can directly decree that the universe come into existence, but indirectly decree that certain circumstances exist, by which we will creatures can rebel against him who he is not responsible for the rebellion, but is responsible for everything else in the nature of freedom.
As we discussed at this point what is compatible whispers of libertarian free will. So anyway we discussed these kinds of things in the will be looking in the infinite password God was.
Then he knew who he was going to decree and ordain to be saved and not saved. And so then he would have from eternity without a big a sense of beginning. In his essence, the issue of mercy as well as judgment would be part and parcel of his or suggesting a property of his essence. That would then be manifested upon is actualizing the world he desires to be part of nature that makes it for this to happen."
And like the air. There are properties of God which existed only independent of and experiencing rapid learning wrath or and output of property.
The following fan but to God is always been an just the way you chosen the blade rest. The thing about this. One of the potentialities or when the counterfactual's let's say out of those hundred would it would ever be a 99 out of it is a matter but in those potentialities. God knows and can decree and ordain predestined all of that kinda stuff that in the fall people be redeemed.
Let's assist this world that he brought into existence will this would further mean that the reality the future reality of his mercy was always in the mind of God.
It would always exist in the mind of God because he doesn't change in his nature or his properties or his essence. And since he does not increase your wisdom then. Therefore, the mercy that he was decreeing to exist or dating to exist would be something that would exist in him for eternity because form from forever ago he was ordaining that mercy would occur become more confusing to me when we began tying it back. Identity because God is present as a supposedly independent of any right CT on continued creation of how it on. I'm still trying to understand what that means in terms of if he is all off and let that by saying he is merciful because he knew that he would be merciful and therefore his mercy depend on his future creation or something like that was probably the logic. He knew he would be his applies to both right back at his messages. Please why call 77077 matter still on the right side try to write something up or to break here and temporal versus logical priority.
Are you familiar with the difference between them. For example, in while you limited in examining your others so they can know temporal priority would be an event occurs. Five seconds later, another event occurs because of the first event so as an example I use as a lightbulb he flip the light switch and let's just say that. Five seconds later the light turns on in the lightbulb. It takes electricity five seconds to come into the lightbulb that would be an example of temporal priority. The court is not how it really works whenever the electricity is present in the lightbulb light is also instantaneously present their simultaneous Bud Light is not the cause of electricity electricity is the cause of the light's electricity is logically prior.
That means is, it must be in place logically for the other thing to follow their not sequential temporally there sequential logically where they happen the same time, but one is there an order for there to be there, but it will happen the same time he flip the light switch on lectures. It is present in the light lights there instantly.
They have at the same time so the electricity is logically prior in this reflection issue if of regeneration, proceeding, faith, things like that. So anyway, so God knows God always knew he was going to be merciful, but with God all knowledge is eternal the same way. The same thing. There's no increase or no change in his knowledge.
Therefore, the mercy he would show to the loss was ordained to exist. Not in the temporal sense and that God knew that people would first fall and then later he decided to ordain mercy, because that would be a temporal priority where God knew that one thing would happen then he had to conclude that something else would happen. First of if all that he concluded. Now I would have to do something about this list of mercy that we temporal priority is a problem. Rather, the ordination of the fall and the realization of his mercy, or simultaneous in the knowledge of God in the mind of God because God's knowledge is eternal and does not increase. So the fall is logically prior to mercy in that it must be in place or for mercy to occur, but is not temporally prior because there is no temporality. The knowledge of God is all instantaneous. It's all eternal.
There's no sequence of knowledge of God, where one thing leads to another and God.
Thus, larger increases in his knowledge, since it always knowledge is simultaneous. Therefore, all his decrees are to in the decree of mercy and a decree of in this general sense decree of mercy in the decree of the of the fall are things that are our own not temporally prior logically prior to one another that make sense. Yet, in which one were you thinking logically prior to the other will the fall, logically prior to mercy because you can immerse you the problem to be solved. Okay right at all.
Very helpful, and these are the kind of things I think about in my spare time so and have a few friends we can talk with like this.
I enjoy this good stuff. I was kinda weird, but the rate okay that's wrong with the work of things that led his miserable, humble and really good looking. So that's how did you know how did you know how else could it if courses were the subject.
I tell my wife that she gives me the stair alright buddy. God bless. All right thank you by Laura Wright muscular phones to carry North Carolina area. We lost Gary. Let's get on to Roger from Raleigh, North Carolina, Raleigh, Roger. I don't pay. I'm fine how are you doing right. We talked a few weeks ago and I asked you if Adam and Eve had three free will is are out libertarian free will. Could I have chosen not standard.decree and ordain them to stand no way we stupidly discuss what a decree ordination is okay. Nothing can occur unless God has ordained that the current with this means it is kind of reflection with the previous conversation was that nothing can occur at all unless God has brought it into existence. Now there's a direct bringing an indirect so God made Adam and Eve that was his direct action, but he did not force them to rebel against him in the nature of free will is that a person is free and so far as he what he does is consistent with his nature and is not forced to do anything but his his choice is still his own. By nature, by essence like what is will Adam and Eve possessed this freedom. They were able to make choices consistent with what they wanted to do and so they chose to rebel against God.
God did not make them rebel God did put the garden there. God did put the tree there. God did allow Satan to come into the garden, God allowed all event so he could we could say in the sense that since God, the Bible says in Ephesians 111 God works all things after the counsel of his will. Satan entering the garden was after the counsel of God's will because S, by definition, logically necessary, so why would God allow that will because he chose to allow elegance and theories about this as ideas but as a topic so we can't say that God did not know when God brought the universe into existence. We can't say that God cynical all my goodness is asking happen.
I would is that all know it did, it cannot happen with the Christian God is not the Christian concept. So were stuck with this issue that will and that means logically, necessarily that God allowed by his will will be call permissive will of God, he permitted was his will to permit Satan to enter the garden attempt.
So is it the will of God that that they be tempted. Yes, but we say it's the will of God in his permissive sense, not in his what we would call safe prescriptive sense of prescriptive sense would be do not disobey God. That's what his desire is is is prescription. Thou shalt not lie.
Thou shall not steal. At this prescriptive will because we are made in his image. Genesis 126 we have the module day the image of God in us, we therefore have the ability of freedom and our freedom is restricted to our natures. We cannot choose to flap your arms and go to the moon, we are restricted by what we simply are as is God. He can only choose to do that which is wholly consistent with his nature. Adam and Eve were in the garden. They were able to freely choose no one forced him. The circumstances are all their people so that was God put in a certain that the yes is correct and will then he because in the scent know we did not. Will he knew they would if you put in the situation that's correct, you did with her still free, and he did not force them at the same time people so that's not fair. We could say it's not fair which show how it is not true and show how it does not make it work.
The four states fair or not fair then you have to demonstrate by what law fairness is based on righteousness. Show me that system that you have in order to decree or decide what is is not fair as of 11, filling the panorama and hold a little more than a break to write back. After the mass Y call 77077. Those were listening.
Norma do a Facebook feed also and for some reason, this is not working.
I can't get it to work. I don't know what is happening up in trying and it is not working so sorry about that, and I try to remind you that were doing in matching funds drive for the end of the year.
We really do need it folks. We have a lot of outgo because were trying to reach out with the gospel and selective areas. The radio was extremely efficient way to do it. So is the Internet were trying to raise the funds to support the missionaries and things like that. This is all good stuff.
We don't do a dramatist of the only thing I take liberties with and I'll admit this is getting books again.
One candle so that the Aiken research and that's that's it. That is the that's a big thing I could do and so you know that's regular I'm a researcher written writer, but we try and spend every single penny properly and only do that which is necessary. Like for example we had to buy for basic hard drives are the sentimental place for to have the forms based installed on them. They do the work because he been down for three weeks and will try to get that going to and I asked for support and that you were trying. We are trying. Okay so anyway the Lord bless you in the consideration of of supporting this, but she really do need it whenever you give will be matched so to give 20 someone else with a matching donor. He will give 20 for that.
If you do a matching city. If you doing monthly donation thing. Whatever you do, if you've already been doing it a you up. It or increase it. That increase will be counted and also if you start a new one that will be counted as well matched and we would just love that I get is good karma toward, and I just on the right-hand side of any page you see the red light E building interfere matching our rights. I guess were we lost that bus, the guy who okay will discover going here. Let's get to John from Selleck city John, welcome to the show.
You are on the air about a so just following up to previous dollars, a bit of Scripture that all I got to visit you broke up you broke up with Terry try to get it out first to call or something to you.
First, your callers just basically talk about.
I know what you're your breaches of the missionary given out orchestra the gospel like your paper, but but would think that my thought is on the Scriptures in the New Testament about how the universe where Paul talks about Christ.
During the time of his resurrection that you you teaching the people that were disobedient know it or what I felt to be asked what you believe or what is your thought thought `chat those that did hear the gospel lifetime chance to go on gets no second chance bucket of what is your thought on that scripture of the day that you teaching the spirits that were disagreed yet and print that during this type of resurrection. Yes, first Peter three and so let's not check it out right first year three turning verse 18 it says for Christ also died from a once for all, the just for the unjust, so that he might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit in which he also went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison.
That's the work record. Caruso to proclaim to the spirits now in prison who were once disobedient, when the patience of God are kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark in which the breakthrough so there's theories about what this is talking about. One is that such is not an evangelistic message that from the verb for evangelism. When will you link a lid so but it's Caruso to proclaim to pronounce to say this is why you are where you are. This is what has happened this. It's an informing of them. Not an offering of a second chance and and the subjective, who was being informed is either the one these their various possibilities are the demonic realm. And this is reflected in Jude versus 67 the ones from Genesis 6 and the filling the talk about this and many of them were put in chains of darkness being held in waiting in God's Christ was proclaiming to them is one theory. The other one is that according to counter parallels in Ephesians 411 and 12 and capitals of The first 10 and also look 60 9231 the Lazarus and the rich man and the place of paradise, or seems to be in the an afterlife condition where people are deftly conscious and so for those who are in prison and the bad place proclamation was made to them. The people or and/or the Angels and or the fallen angels. That is, in northern ethylene dependent on which position would hold and that's all that's going on. It's not a proclamation in the sense of. Here is a second chance, but assisted informing of them because they were disobedient. The patience of God could waiting days of Noah. Nothing in the text says that if a second chance at all is a Bible says in Hebrews 927 is appointed and admitted to by once then judgment.
Okay doubt off grid creek.
Not like evaporated.
Okay, no problem. God bless all rights that we have three open lines folks want to give me a call 87720722 and we lost JC now waiting over to Mike and the Flynn amount against. We have four lines give me call 87720722762 Mike from Thomasville North Carolina showing on the air lockout called abolishment will not go gospel imprints throughout the world. Okay, that's a Scripture question order adherence you think God has hope and slight.
In effect at that at the very last minute. 90 God still on their way. The great thought, but you think maybe God had up until the very last minute to write Judith that he would sell against his. Mike and maybe and maybe not turning out not to teleport as possible that God has been not that we will go against searcher nature and there will my account will what God's will in list assignor terms first, what is hope define the assignor terms recognition anywhere supporting a dictionary. For example, hope is a feeling of expectation and desire for certain thing to happen so can God hope in that sense he can desire for a certain thing to occur, but not ordained that it does so in that sense unless God could hope if we were to use that.
That way, or we can't use it in if it means that he expects this to happen and then he's let down when it doesn't because that would be a lot. God has in the world that he reports now that that we will not accept it, that we will not. If the Bible doesn't understand I was not say hope God desires that people not sin against him, but he allows them to sin against, and so we just have to speak in those terms to say that God hopes that we won't implies the idea and it may or may not be possible in God's hoping to make the right choice and in that sense eat it at that.
He doesn't know. So if this is the word hope is is difficult because we had to divert concisely rock your area and it will write some excellent naturalist Charles family Sunday morning and I walked right. I will collect and not anyone watched Charles family Sunday morning and that she should love yourself as you love your night love you love yourself. That's what he said was a girl that she should love herself sings means different things in different contexts okay with. She was talking about was narcissism. That's different then with what the Bible says love your neighbor as yourself in Leviticus 1918 were Jesus, so that Matthew 2239 was it me to live his life as is or letter neighbor as yourself will people take care of themselves. They treat themselves well as your right and you to do the same thing to the interior neighbor, but the nature of love is other centered, so this is a loose use of the word love and what she was talking about is not a hold on his message and therefore open line 7 mass Y call 7707 everybody you know that I am trying to break to get to working in his face, but is not working so that is what it is and I remember we do need your support during a matching fund drives to the end of the year. All you do is good karma toward CAR.RG/donate will you need be right there. Let's get back on the lines all African logical statement. Call 877-207-2276 Mike still there. There are in the mail okay's literary hope, and hope things are going about you. Yes, go ahead can hear your regular Michael lost him to be just money really is.
There we go five open lines.
Folks, give me a call 877-207-2276 no earlier in the show talking about God's decrees, God's organization and free will and things like that and I hope it wasn't too heavy for you, but these are some of the things theologians discuss and sometimes we get into these discussions with atheists and others who try and stop the Christian that's like an atheist game stop the Christian and a try and ask difficult questions and I enjoy discussing these kind of things. But what do I say this, that God is not surprised by anything the Bible says that he works all things after the counsel of his well nothing occurs… By God's permission.
You have to understand something God has all knowledge and all wisdom, and so when ever occurs occurs by his will, even murder.
When we say it occurs by his will, were not saying that God directly desires it, but that he directly permits an analogy I give is that my wife and I when we decided to have children. We knew way before our children were given to us by the Lord. We knew they would rebel against us.
And remember this is just an analogy, but we knew they would rebel but were not the cause of the rebellion, yes, we were married. Yes, we decided to have children.
Yes, we had children and so we directly brought about those circumstances. My wife and we did, by which the children were realities were blessed but even though we chose and made those choices to bring them into the world.
We are not responsible for the rebellion that they freely choose to do with their own so people then sometimes they will wait a minute. If God knew what they were giggling with her to do under strict different circumstances under any particular circumstances could they do anything different that gets to be more difficult question could date in what sense could they because if the main could in that there physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually capable of doing something different will that sense when yes but if we say in the sense that God has arranged all things so that they will freely choose to do something in that sense, know they couldn't do anything else. It's like the people the man who Neil nailed across into the wrist of Jesus. Could he have not done that yet he could've not done it but he was under orders from Rome and others in his superiors and he did his job. So one sense he could not have disobeyed. But another sense, yes he could help you have the free will to and people gets bogged by this idea of God being sovereignly in control over free will that God is not restricted by our freedom and when I talk about this with people. A lot of times Christians get really upset because they don't like the idea that God is not sovereign, even over free will choices but I'll tell them what God do you want you want the God who works all things after the counsel of his will.
Ephesians 111 or do you want a God that is growing in wisdom and stature, and knowledge increasing in his wisdom and knowledge, as in Mormonism, would you want God to be, and then think what you want your own free will to be. Do you want to have ask do you want to have your free will being the standard by which God himself must cooperate and must work around because we need to have our independence. This is a form of idolatry.
To claim that which belongs to God alone. His sovereign independence and say we first sounds. We want to have it in your free will.
That's a problem that is because the thing is, God is the one God is one who sovereign over all things. God is completely sovereign and we have to understand he sovereign, even over our free will choices but our free will choices are by definition still free will choices he sovereign over free will choices free will choices means or free will choices be sovereign over them, which means both are true. Both can happen. And God is in control is not surprised. So sometimes I tell people when they talk about this idea that God must respect our free will. And he's limited by our free will selects that's false doctrine.
For one thing and everything God is sovereign and he can certainly arrange for circumstances he wants, by which I will freely choose to do something and I illustrate this with people and I say to them to see what we mean. You can force someone to freely do something which I can't knit a look at this McKay sent as a part of the show you how to do that and to force you to do something and you're freely in a sense, forcibly's were on the essay I would cause you to do something and you're freely gonna do it.
Okay. And they look at me. I took an aggressive halfstep towards him and he flinched to move backwards. I say there you go.
I just caused you to read freely react.
It was your free will choice to do what you did.
I didn't make you do it. I heavily influenced you know when you wouldn't do it but you were the one who freely move your own body and freely chose to move. No one forced you in the sense that they major muscles twitching your brain synapses work so that you are then forced to take a step backwards, and that that they remember that because it's it's an interesting way to demonstrate and very politely and very subtly but people react to things so I can bring people to do certain things I want to do and have them freely do it and we can do that to a certain degree and were just people we don't have infinite knowledge, but God is certainly capable of bringing us to the place to do those things that he desires that we do and yet there are also times when he will certainly desire to allow us to freely rebel against him. Therefore our sins against God, even as Christians are freely allowed by God, so that we can freely rebel against him.
He is want us to freely rebel but he allows us to otherwise we could have no culpability to our own sins and could not be held responsible for what we do.
This further means that your sickness, your being fired you're being let go from work your car accident your child's illness. The check that bounced. Whatever it is, whatever it is is within the sovereign will of God to occur understand this also. Nothing ever occurs without him knowing about it and having a reason for it is not arbitrary. He sovereign so you can trust that everything happens for a reason. Our job is to submit to that and we don't know what to say when not sure why God allowing things but even in our sicknesses or failures and stuff. What we do we trust in God will move forward. Let's get let's move on to the next caller here Justin from Iowa adjusted book of the show I Matt how are you doing doing fine from gray up though our church is gone..
First and & L week came across where's the all believers all he had made its final state lot title to the throne it.I that God had remorse. What you're a quiet.is: anti-dwarfism unsurpassed more faith man form dwarfism is God speaking in terms that relate to us and are like us.
The first instance of this is when the pre-incarnate Christ was walking in the garden with Adam and Eve and said to said that to the man where are you the God who knows all things knew exactly where he was so wise he speaking like that because he speaking anthropomorphic like where are you and there's a lot of things I could be answered by the question. So God will have other areas where he had remorse like in Genesis 66 he was sorry that he made man, sorry, no. God knows all things.
But here's the interesting question he knows and what we can think of. Put together this way, God knows that were going to rebel against him, and when it occurs he really is sorrowful for our rebellion but yet at the same time from eternity.
God had permissibly ordained that occur.
The words he ordained the circumstances in which people can freely rebel, knowing it would occur. He then really is sorrowful and affected by their sin, when it really does occur, so it's an interesting thing to see about God from all eternity. He's ordained it. Not that he directly causes it is innocent of people sin, but when it does occur, even those within his sovereign plan to allow it. He still is sorrowful. Just as my wife and I know that our children in a rebel and when it really does occur we really are so even though we knew this could happen. So God is like that and will and reason giving I should say the reason we are like that is because as a goddess remained his image soaked from eternity. He's known all things ordained wood with chervil to come to pass whatsoever. And when people sin. He really is sorrowful for their sin is affected by aggrieved battered that make sense. Yeah, I know that that great art group is going through that person with a little bit of turtle thinking about the make, though I appreciate that.
And with any luck, you can always call me I might recommend this people have still stuck in a Bible study have a question is tough call the office may melting level we can.
I think of an answer.
Okay great thank you Matt appreciate journal from goblins all right is Québec over to Mike from Thomasville will have a minute left the show, buddy spambot Matt God love him man you call back tomorrow as long as I know you are either devotedly right back to the Lord bless you, by God's grace as usual back on their loan