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Supreme Court Cases and Your Questions!

Outlaw Lawyer / Josh Whitaker & Joe Hamer
The Truth Network Radio
October 8, 2021 12:00 pm

Supreme Court Cases and Your Questions!

Outlaw Lawyer / Josh Whitaker & Joe Hamer

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October 8, 2021 12:00 pm

Attorneys Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer talk upcoming Supreme Court cases Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization and New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruen, plus your questions!

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Lawyer Joe and I talk about the cases that are new. Before the Supreme Court this year and the explicit request has said about him and you'll jump out and now outlaw law here with Josh what are you outlaw your we are on the air. Josh Whitaker Joe Hamer Whitaker neighbor Laufer six combined years experience between these two and offices in Raleigh. Clayton Goldsborough and Fuquay Marina. We talked all legalese on this show estate planning and administration, personal injury, criminal and traffic family law if it's topical they are on top of it, and folks if you got any legal questions of your own. They're here for you. Here's the number to call 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186. You can also email questions to the show. We will use these in upcoming episode.

It's, an online check us out the website, the outlaw law. Gentlemen, welcome man, I know it's been a busy week but what's on the program today.

Looking forward to it. Morgan Morgan's good thoughts. He this week what we wanted to do Supreme Court US Supreme Court is back in session.

They have scheduled oral arguments on a lot of big cases for October, November, December, and so I thought it would be good to review two big cases today and MSS muster questions. But before we get to any of that. Joseph, how are you doing Joshua, I'm good, man. It's, you know, I really live. I really live for the show and talking with you spending this time together. We don't were very busy. Fortunately were very busy, don't get to see each other as much as we'd like. So this really my time answer to disconnect answer to really just enjoy this legal conversation that we have every week it is. It is pleasant.

Joe, for those who don't know Joe and I are the managing partners of the Whitaker name or like Morgan set a law firm that has offices soon get further further to the west energy I hadn't talked you too much, but are Gastonia, North Carolina offices get ready to launch next months were pretty excited about getting down towards the Charlotte Mecklenburg areas that's that's big news for us absolutely men.

Our goal is a law firm is to basically when you walk out of your house.

We want to be in office within everywhere, which is basically to beat McDonald's except for Whitaker and Hamer offices all over the place. I was to say Starbucks but yeah yeah yeah Mickey D's I get I get our boxes more classy. It will be.

Let's yeah thanks sound that sounds a little bit classier but I so excited it will be our first office, in that area and the answer were still we we got some other things to announces that as time moves on here and in the 21 and 2022 by a pretty good week.

Joey went to last week we went to guns and roses that was a good that was a good show. Well attended by seemed okay with that with the coveted mask is pretty fun.

Good to see those guys tour in their late 50s. Yeah man I tell you that everybody was extremely comfortable and if we can attribute that to anything. I think we can attribute that to the copious amounts of alcohol that estimate 92% of the crowd had ingested turn that evening everyone very very very comfortable very interesting show man started off, I thought personally started off a little rough axle rose very old and a lot of screaming vocal cords.

Maybe not in as good of shape as they once were, be honest with you man. Early on I thought I thought it was going to be thought of as can be very different than what it was but ultimately seems like you warmed up. Seems like he really eased into it ended up being real good man, you may not notice about me Joe.

But when I was younger man setting was six grade there was a tie goes announces sixth-graders of Taurus Metallica guns and roses are metallic ficus was opening for guns and roses. Maybe I can remember huge tour want to go so bad I was in sixth grade I had no money, I could drive there was, I was again writes, I couldn't have missed that concert and in last year Nancy Metallica write and initiate next to guns and roses. I'm slowly I'm slowly making up for all the missed concert setting. Go to middle school and you can drive now so everything is turning around for you man. Since this sounds like a really, really, really improved but anyway so the Supreme Court is is back in session and we we can already know what cases are coming here and will and there's couple I think we probably mention them here. They are all prior shows. We just want to come to do a preview since were going to get get some decisions on these cases. But the first one is going to be Dobbs. The Jackson women's health organization and so we'll talk about that case, but that is going to get right to the heart of of Roe V Wade and Joe. We spent some time talking about the constitutional right to privacy how the court has as found out you are right before for a woman to have an abortion.

So we spent some time a map in this case is going to be big it is. It is Josh yeah will talk more about it, but there's you got to review a decision that that whole bodily autonomy issue and the right to promise.

As we said before, very hot button issue, something that that really divides people and there's it can be very interesting to see how this goes. Because your Juergen and see you deftly get to see some some kind of movement on that issue, whether it be some reaffirmation of it or you know some change to the way that it's been handled thus far. But this is a big case management skin can have pretty wide reaching implications and so we will will have a lot to talk about in regards to that in and Joe.

I don't know if you heard I don't know if you saw the headlines, but did you see where the there been challenges that have a vaccine mandate we we talked about that a lot.

For public employees and state employees and was I think I might have been my public school employees. I can't remember exactly but it was another vaccine case for some folks who were objected to getting the vaccine brought a challenge and was us on a Meyer thing was just a Stoudemire who declines to hear that challenge that was another.

It was another incident where the court you didn't really have much to comment on vaccine mandates. Again, kind of reestablishing that your employer state private federal can make you get the vaccines I saw the headline determined to mention that earlier and and and and bring it up at just another one of those yeah you know I we talk a lot about that.

We think we covered at it several times in the past and you are prediction at the time was kind of exactly like you said we.

We basically theorized that your employer is going to be able to mandate this and this can be something that that they can't say you got it do and like you said, it seems like that's the way that it's trending whether whether you agree with that or not.

It seems like that's what we were seeing and it seems like that'll work and continue to see you know it's interesting that challenge that you reference Josh that the challengers actually were complaining that the mandate was discriminatory against the public school employees because according to their challenge. There was other sitter city employees, including some that actually work with children just like these teachers who were allowed to remain in their jobs without vaccination. As long as he underwent weekly testing. So I guess they were basically saying it's you. Note the fact that these people contest weekly.

We should have that option as well if if we don't want to like to get vaccinated, but sounds like it sounds like that challenges not to be her before the Supreme Court. So yeah, like you, like we said it looks like that trend continues, it will be interesting in California as the and I haven't heard much about it. I just saw the headlines, but you California is going to have the mandate for school-age children and you know that one's getting a challenge as can be a little different fact pattern size interesting as I wonder if the court will will hear that one when it gets there but I don't know become a different take on this vaccine mandate talking about an employer you're talking about, you know kids you know children in a public school scenario can they be forced to get this vaccine because it's going to be approved for kids sooner or what IV sets coming down the road.

It sounds like yet Josh to make a bold prediction hand if if the idea of children being mandated to wear masks in school.

It prompts people to go to their school board meetings and yell and scream and chill out to predict the vaccine mandate being imposed upon school-age children is going to have a strong reaction as well. Probably it on and this is probably a good point really talking about what the second case required to really talk about today New York State rifle and pistol Association versus Bruin is a Second Amendment case and Joe and I have already spent some time on the previous episodes talking about the facts of the case to preview it again since his upper or oral arguments now but yes Second Amendment abortion vaccine mandates when Joe and I talk about this stuff really trying to be as it objective and reasonable as possible here without a lawyer. That's what were trying to do return take these items out of the new cycle better and I need to be examined like an attorney would legally just like it was coming before us in our office in our practice and try to get to the bottom of of legally what we think's going to happen. So you might not really know how Joe and I feel about specific topic. Must we tell you hey I feel this way or I disagree user and try to be as objective as possible so you always put that out there to prevent angry calls and it doesn't prevent we get we get yelled at a lot and I wanted to note, we we still appreciate you guys listening where as reasonable rational wicked attorneys that we can, disconnect ourselves from the emotional aspects of things and it we can have disagreements and and people can disagree with us and that we get we still appreciate everybody that listens to the show call CLS if you need to plan.

I just will will listen to it and hand but but the point there so much bias out there. You gets such a slanted news that's delivered to you whether it be a liberal bias conservative bias.

It seems like almost every aspect of the news these days. It has some kind of tent to it and it's leaning some way and it's being presented in in more of a subjective manner to push an agenda so the whole point of this is the is the do the opposite of that and just come come at it from an unbiased perspective. You don't really need to know we we do have personal thoughts and feelings on things but that's not the point of the show. The point is to present things neutrally examine the facts and just look at the law guys were up against her first break I like the subtitle to this show the lawyers what everybody knows the show by but I think it's agree to disagree and it's okay to absolutely have your own opinion. That's what the show was about. And they are going to hit all of these legal topics each week here on the outlier, it's Josh Whitaker and Joe Haber managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer law firm 46 combined years experience between these two and again offices in Raleigh, Garner Clayton, Goldsboro and few, quavering, and soon to be in Gastonia and the goal is every corner right die just like a Starbucks organ have the law firms everywhere, but we have more legalese to talk about if you got a question you know about what's going on in your life legally there's a way to get in touch with the firm just call 800-659-1186 and leave your name and contact information and maybe a little bit about what you're dealing with, and an attorney will be back in touch with you and you can also email questions at will use those and upcoming shows that few today that when I get to and you can also look at the website. The outlaw line coming up next were to look at the Dobbs V. Jackson women's health organization case and how that might affect abortion and Hamer law firm 46 combined years experience in again offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro few quavering and soon to be in Gastonia. We talk legalese each and every week here on the program and it ranges from family law, criminal and traffic personal injury estate planning and administration, real estate, a lot goes in to the program and the guys are always ready to talk about the legal issues that are out there and let me tell you, there are plenty of them. You want to get in touch with the show and you got a question about what's going on your life legally.

Here's the number 800-659-1186 at 800-659-1186. She also email questions of the program will use in an upcoming show. If we like him. Obviously you can always check out the website, the, fellas. I know you're good to get into this, but I'm actually very interested Dobbs versus Jackson women's health organization and what's the latest there will Morgan yet this this talk about abortion.

That's always preface this you know week. I entered the last segment talking about it, but we're just gonna look at the cases before the court and arguments that either side may make here and just some kind.

General observations, but Joe, you know what we can remember it was a week or two ago we talked about the Texas law that got a lot of attention where arguably the state of Texas deputized citizens to sue anyone who helped facilitate an abortion from doctors to drivers of family members who may have made.

Get someone to an abortion clinic and and outlaws declined emergency review because I think we got to settle there been no damage yet it wasn't as attorneys say it wasn't it wasn't right and so there is a lawsuit. Now I don't know. I don't know if you heard that much about that when you Joe yeah note so like you said that when that was not not ripe in any time we talk about, you know, abortion is the one case that really comes to mind and is at the forefront of of that debate is really Roe V Wade, that's kind of where it all.

That's kind of where everyone references that's where the majority of what we're talking about today stems from. So I think it's always good to come to give a rehash of that just for anybody who's unfamiliar with the facts so just to give you had a little a little bit of a rundown 1970 Jane Roe which is just a fictional name that was used in court documents to protect that plaintiff's identity filed a lawsuit against Henry Wade who is the district attorney of Dallas County, Texas, challenging a Texas law that made abortion illegal, except by a doctor's order to save a woman's life in that lawsuit road basically alleged that the state laws were unconstitutionally vague in that they abridged her right of personal privacy, something we talked about a lot, which is protected by several amendments. The first the fourth the fifth. We did a whole show, going over everything as far as that right to privacy is concerned, and ultimately the question there was does the Constitution recognize a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy by abortion and what the court found was that basically and that due process clause of the 14th amendment. There is that fundamental right to privacy that protects a pregnant woman's choice to have an abortion. But just like we talked about several times in the past that right has to be balanced against the government's interest in protecting the woman's health and protecting the viability of the potentiality of human life. So there's your super brief Roe V Wade summary to get us up to speed on the end of the Dobbs case is what we see over the years. You see certain states they will make laws limiting when you can get an abortion, so we we know we have a constitutional we know women have a constitutional right to to receive an abortion and were states or will we get in trouble or will last name and correct where we have cases come up is how can that right be limited. When is the you know you'll see some cases that talk about when is the fetus viable and and thus has some constitute maybe some constitutional rights of its own and so you see the states trying to limit that way. And so we talked about the Texas law like that, as the factory made made abortions illegal and there's probably another challenge is a lawsuit right now on that one where a doctor who came out I can't member that maybe parade. Dr. Brady had an op-ed and I think the Washington Post reset eight at performed an abortion in Texas and in three people suited and and so he's combined that removed it to federal court and and that's kind of pending and working to watch and how that plays out that's that's kinda interesting and and Mississippi seven Dobbs it's it's restrictions in Mississippi and so are you believe if you look at these things.

Mississippi has the most not the most maybe maybe Texas as the most, but is another state that has a lot of restrictions on when and how and where a woman can get abortion and the theory behind it is these restrictions, add up to the point where it's it's very difficult for a woman to exercise that constitutional right and so Mississippi has as a new man on all abortions after 15 weeks, and I think that was kind the tipping point for this case. As I understand it is, is this is banned is what's being challenged and Mississippi has other restrictions so they have a life you want to get an abortion, you have to meet with a eye doctor or nurse a 24 hour mandatory delay for the patient to think about it, which requires two trips only physicians can perform can use telemedicine so there's always there's all these limits access with the court spends a lot of time looking at is what is a what is a justified limit to this constitutional right and what is it that generates all this case law and this will be the nuances of me Dobbs and and and you know I think a lot of people's concerns.

We have a new court. We have a lot of new members of the court became an under trump and and we don't know exactly where they all stand, but Joe Roe V Wade, as is precedent and it means something it does mean something, but what it means again subject to debate.

For for some and it's clear the court is held that there is a constitutional right of a woman you know along with that right of privacy which entails the right to to make those decisions with her body and the right to have an abortion, but at the same time, the court made it clear that that dad is not just a completely unlimited right and we come back to that same question were gonna balance certain things work in the balance that that right to privacy. With the new public health, public interest, things of that nature. And so that's that's really where the issues arise and where like you said the. The conflict arises, and we see these cases, and in this case it it's really simple and Dobbs. The question is, is a law that Brandt bands all will call pre-viability abortions constitutional and it will be extremely extremely interesting because like you said we been a lot of speculation as to how these justices. We got some new, just as we don't know exactly where they can stand on the issue so of extreme interest to a lot of people.

How there can rule in an evidence of how how extremely interested so many parties are in this case you know when you got things come before the Supreme Court. You can have what's called a Amicus briefs which are basically friend of the court briefs that people will file you know persuading the court giving information to the court.

There's been over 1125 of those filed just in this case fell wow and sing that number yet but yet there is and I went and looked at a couple on on both sides, universities or organizations a summer religious summer or not. These are organizations that fight for folks to either have you note, be able to exercise that right pretty freely their only other side they went out they want to limit that right but they both cite case law you know it's a, there's there's there's no matter what side you're on. There's there's probably a pretty legitimate and arguably no good argument either way. And a lot of these. Try to include science and try to determine when a fetus is viable by itself when as a heartbeat is all kinds of scientific arguments that go hand-in-hand with these legal arguments are to be made, but I think oral arguments right now are set for December think they set October November December's leisure in November or December, but I think I will try to listen to these you know you can you can watch and this will be for attorneys us will be exciting as this is something that we just don't know what the courts going to do in the court honors you. This is a tradition once something is present precedent.

It's hard to overturn as I don't think organist anything the overturned but it is going to be. It's a new court.

We don't know what they're gonna do it is exciting for attorneys I propose that we tailgate for the two will aim for it will will set up a screen outdoors and throw it out there and have some beers and and see what happens. But I know in all seriousness, the soul will of course have repercussions across the country and I think folks that that are ardent supporters of of abortion. There there really afraid. This limits can be upheld and what does that mean going for dinner. Other states going to be able to do yet.

It's like you said Josh, you know it. Roe V Wade precedent highly unlikely. Organist see that overturned. But there's a lot of room for interpretation there and that's really what the issue is there's a lot of you know what restrictions are reasonable, I think it's clear that it's been it's been held that there it's not an aunt completely unlimited right. Like we said, so some restriction that it is going to be deemed permissible. And that's really where the sticking point is for everybody's is where do you draw the line. And so when you you got those super strongly opinionated individuals on each side and its it's very interesting to think about where that that point of compromise is going to be, if at all. You got some and you know you you got a lot of folks who were just they look at abortion from day one there. They're never going to see it as being something that should be permitted but but again I don't know the organist see anything that far. I think if anything, you may see some additional restrictions being placed. But if nothing else worked were deftly going to get some kind of clarification were to get some kind of you know additional statement from the court on on what is and what is not reasonable. So again very very interested to see what Seneca Joe.

It's interesting you say that we always talk about is balance.

The balance of equities and and this constitutional right is an adult tellings. Our next topic is when talk about the Second Amendment and balancing our rights to maintain and bear arms versus Noah societies rights you know not not to have everyone armed all the time 24 hours a day so we'll talk about that more up next.

The outlaw light is Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer law firm again. Raleigh offices Garner, Clayton Goldsborough and Fuquay Ring and soon to be in Gastonia agree or disagree can always call and leave a message.


You can also email your questions or your concerns or questions at the Alamo. and check out the website podcast are there as well. The law guns that come up that Clayton read and soon to be in Gastonia you got a question for the program legal question about what's going on in your life. Here's the number 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 leave your name, leave your contact information and attorney will be in touch with you can also email questions to the show

Please check out the website, the outlaw law. we talk legalese each and every week you're on the outlier guys are no guns. Always a big big topic and we got it again this week. Jim Morgan, the next case that we want to point out in the spring court has an account announcer docket for the next couple months and there's a lot on their lifetimes. The Supreme Court their hearing cases that are real technical in nature about procedure, criminal procedure, and it is very exciting to talk about on the radio, especially if not attorneys or are listening but one of the another one of the big cases are to have been Joe talked about before, but it's New York State rifle and pistol Association versus Bruin which comes out of the state of New York and is about concealed carry permits, what what started it. Jody remember about you. Remember what the law was there.

I remember it being extremely extremely restrictive Josh that's the first thing that sticks out to me in my memory so I have I have family in and in extended family in New York now.

Born and raised in and in Raleigh North Carolina but have extended family up in the state of New York and enter concealed carry law. It is one of the more strict in the in the nation, and so they have a concealed carry process at Yunnan probably not remembering exactly right but here I think the. The law allows you if you have a proper cause if you can show the need. If you apply for concealed carry permit. They will grant you one but they pretty much don't grant many men and they have a lesser one, so they have they have a lesser one, but they don't give you permit to carry concealed handgun in public.

If you don't show proper cause but to let you carry. If you're going hunting or doing something else and their argument basically comes down to in the New Yorker in the US you're not right for you to carry a concealed handgun they they would argue that are the Second Amendment. Certainly, you have the right to bear arms in your house for self-defense. But you don't have a constitutional right to carry a concealed handgun. Is that something the state has the grant you, and that's why there's a permit process in New York. Arguably, rarely approves those answers very difficult if not impossible to get a concealed carry handgun permit. We had a couple of folks who applied for permit.

They were denied they were turned down and so that's where this lawsuit.

They sued the state, said hey you, does not given us the right to carry a concealed weapon. We have the right to bear arms and so this is made its way all the way up to the Supreme Court and that's where we find ourselves today. Yes, super restrictive Josh and in I mean just in general unit where were not from New York were not in New York but the way that that I understand, just New York law in general. Not overly favorable to gun owners and gun enthusiast unit, whether it be attempting to open carry, whether it be attempting to get that concealed carry license. It's not something that that's that's very easy to do, if even that possible in the state of New York and year there was a lot of you got a lot of people love their guns.

Man, I don't think it's a hell think it's a stretch to say that there is no end. People really hold you that Second Amendment right. The people who interpret that the way that they interpreted really hold that right is extremely close to their heart and it's a super important issue for them because a lot of people a lot of people see that as you note, a kind of. The one thing that that separates the people from some wild tyrannical governmental overreach and we have anyone who thinks like that and you got a number of people who think like that. You've got again.

A hot button issue, to say the least. You know I we talked about this before and I manage this exact exact thing before, so excuse me if I have, but Joe I know you're not a big fan of The Simpsons, your your hostile towards The Simpsons, like corralling S&Ls, hostile man. I mean I just haven't seen every episode I can't help that I can't how I work on it, whether there's an episode that I always think about eating some talk about the Second Amendment, which makes me think I probably Artie brought it up before putting something that is a commitment. There's a episode of The Simpsons were Homer, it's a good I don't know what it's called. That's what happens.

Homer gets a gun he joins the local NRA and have a meeting in there. They're just dumbfounded. How careless and reckless he is with the guns they kick him out and using it as a TV remote issues and is gonna turn out the lights like he's just not not a not a good gun owner by any point, but Lisa's complaining she doesn't want to gun in the house as Lisa does on The Simpsons. She complains and somehow you it I'm not good at recalling Simpsons episodes of topic, but I'm good at research and I can tell you this is season nine episode five download is the cartridge family cartridge.

I like it at all when witnessing a riot. Homer decides to buy gun math actually relatively topical to today. At that aired in 1997 man The Simpsons, the brilliant man are way ahead of their time.

Yeah I know there's there's a lot of means where The Simpsons said have essentially predicted things that came to pass, when you have 17,000 episodes of the show virtually every scenario that can play out in the futures.

It's so in this in this episode Homer has us. I don't know what exact quote was because I haven't researched it, but his is he Lisa's complaining about God, and Homer says look if we have is good in this house the King of England could come sit on our couch and like Peter Feder something that I always thought that was that was funny and I we all know, I I am a gun owner I think I'm more careful and experience that Homer is but will yeah I was go back to that.

You know if we can all have guns. The king of England could come come in and walk right in here and start pushing you around. That's the quote again not good at recall relatively good manners.

You can find any sentence what people really love The Simpsons man senses are awesome but might I digress Joseph the this case can be important because you know as cases come up to the federal court system you got district federal court. You got different Court of Appeals and some cases of kinda been all over the all over the place would in different states that have restrictive like a restrictive law like New York, has your course of kinda allowed him not allowed and enters no clear vision on the course on them where they stand and so this week that gets heard by the court will have a will have a precedent right will have a clear decision that other courts can follow states will know what they can and can't do. Setting a lot of people were looking forward to seeing how the Supreme Court weighs in on this and it is kind of hard to predict what the court will do. Can we get a new court and we got some folks that were nominated by conservative president you got you just just like me and Joe right some of these justices a Republican summer summer Democrats a more conservative when gun rights are kinda evenly split. You know it's not. I don't think something you can predict along party lines.

It's I don't have to like there's no telling what we get from the court almost yeah I have to agree man in again.

It actually ties in really well with with the discussion we had earlier about abortion and really any time your you're talking about constitutional rights you're always good to have that that two-part framework where you look at the amendments scope as its historically understood and then you look at the government's interest in public safety and is the exact same thing here, and in it always comes down to defining unit defining that point where though the one right kind of stops in where that interest in public safety comes into play and get to be very interesting.

Just like with the abortion discussion to see how the court rules because if nothing else, we are absolutely going to get some kind of further definition on that kind of blurry line as to where where the restrictions can can kind of go in and where the restrictions are going to stop and where that right. Note really takes hold and just be a lot like like like the case, we just talked about abortion. No matter what the court rules people think it's either too stricter or too lenient.

You know, but but at least we'll have some some lines drawn and I think that at least it at least alleviates confusion. You know, and then some states still do like Texas. They pastor abortion law that abortion law when challenged properly, is as I can imagine's in a pass muster for a lot of reasons, but Texas still did it and someone sees things get struck down or are or you know we we find out that the court maybe the court thinks we all have a right to carry concealed handgun and that's it a natural extension of our second minute rights. I can imagine that's that's the case, but anyway it'll it'll just be interesting. There's a lot of legal scholars looking at this Lotta states.

A lot of legislatures so I am excited again we might the tailgate this one.

Suggest we just tell us his tailgate all month man.

You know, he said the Supreme Court has ruled that you got that right to have guns in your home and but but we we don't have that clear elaboration on how far that right extends so very good to be very interesting.

Another thing that just like with abortion, you know, we talked about the fact that you your have individuals despite the fact that the Supreme Court is held in the past that no woman has that constitutional right to an abortion. You got individuals who are never going to agree with that and and you've also got individuals who were never going to agree with you know even what some would say are reasonable limitations to gun ownership. Those people have guns to so that's almost a more volatile situation to situation the outlaw liars talking guns rights Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer.

We found out today that Josh feels like is more responsible than Homer Simpson cartoon character that's awesome when it comes to going to gun ownership. So all always fun to kinda kid a little bit but a very very serious topic discussed today on the outlaw lawyers if you got a legal question pertaining to what's going on in your life. Here's a number 4800 659-1186 at 800-659-1186. You can also email questions to the show that's questions at the outlaw, allow and fellows.

I think working to get to some questions like segment in Morgan we got to listener questions. This weakens our our first one. It would in a tackle is we've got someone who is signed a lease for an apartment and they want to break it. They want some legal advice and talk about Arkansas coming up on the outlaw liars right after this, the outlaw law you're on the air, Josh Whitaker, Joe Hamer. They are managing partners at Whitaker and Haber law firm 46 combined years of variance and they have office is in Raleigh Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro and Fuquay Varina and soon to be in Gastonia the franchising folks are everywhere. You got a legal question 800-659-1186, 800-659-1186. You can also email questions to the program questions at the outlaw, allow and speaking of questions gentlemen, we have a few so let's get to write our first question, when it came in. It was little more complicated so I kinda simplified it for the for the radio show and took some details out of it but the way I ended up raising this question for debate.

Today was I signed a lease for one year and I am under contract to buy a house.

I want to break my lease. What can I do and this is a question we we get a lot. This is kind of falls under what we call landlord tenant law we represent a lot of landlords but we also end up helping some some tenants as well. And so the first thing I always tell people is sorry to hear that Wright's good news or buying a house that you say you're in the I'm in a sample make this worst-case scenario, sausages signed a lease and I got this great opportunity so they went under contract to buy a house without really thinking about it. I've got 12 months left on this lease, they just signed and so the first thing I tell people is like let's get a read your lease right so you got leases that are 80 pages long. Yet leases that are three pages long. You may not have a lease nestled first.

We have to figure out what you agree to Joe I don't know if you see this one a lot Massey a lot, you know, we talk about it when you get out of law school you start getting those recurring questions from anyone who knows that your lawyer number one on that list.

Most likely is the ad got a speeding ticket. Can you help me that's that's number one essay number two or number 1B would would probably be this, the question of hey I got this lease or I know someone who's got a lease can they get out of it and any people always will tell you that it like a I got a lease can I get out of it and and like you said, men step one is I got a release I got to see what it says, you know, at least there are some some standardized aspects to leases. There are some standardized forms where some leases can look similar but a lease is a contract and a lease is going to be unique, depending on how that contract is drafted, they can look completely different with completely different terms and so there are some statutory protections that tenants are going to have their something you can't really contract the way but at the end of the day the lease it's going to be a contract. It's going to dictate your two parties who have agreed to be bound by those terms, and so wouldn't have to look at the lease before we can advise about really anything that that lease dictates. Yes, a going forward. We talk about this question. It's good to become a general, what do we do we see the most often Simon assume there is a lease I'm in.

Assume it's it's a formal arrangement. You know it's a management company. It's it's these are professionally managed, will calm apartments and and and in my mind and arrogance. He states that this is an NC State student in my mind, and a Vernon apartment and we got a lease and it's a big one.

The 50 pager lots of addendum's typically not situation.

You've already agreed to how this is going to play out if you want to break the lease.

Usually there's going to be out couple paragraphs and there's going to be a penalty and there's going to be basically your to pay something just as a shear penalty for breaking the lease and on top of that you're still liable into your released by your landlord you're liable for the rest of the year. Your landlord has some legal responsibilities. Were they have to try and relate it. No will to usually know landlord usually wants to make sure someone's in there so they have to use reasonable best efforts to release or relet the property, but until they do eventually find someone it's acceptable to them to take on a step in your place and release the property you're on the hook by.

That's you know it gets a contract is a contract Josh and his as many times as I've gotten this question, I've had to unfortunately deliver the news to the people asking the question that in so many words, your you're kind of screwed here there's there's really not a tone that you can do. Leases are generally contracts are generally drafted you even if they're not drafted by an attorney. There is anyone with with any kind of common sense. That is in the position to be a landlord is generally good to have some provision detailing unit. What happens when you Terminator you break at least an end. That's never going to be favorable to the tenant that's attempting to break that lease. You are always going to have to pay something. There's always gonna be some penalty in answer to what that penalties gonna be. It's really going to depend based on that the language of the contract.

How is drafted.

Like you said Josh that you do have in residential contracts.

You know you've got that that duty to mitigate where that the landlord has to try to relet the property but depending on the market dependent on several factors it if if they're unable to do so, you know, your damages could be fairly substantial. You know it all depends. Just like we generally say a lot of the time it really does all dependence can be dictated by that lease, but it's not a great situation to be in. If you are the tenant and you're trying to get out. You know, unless of course you got some kind of factor working in your favor.

You got a landlord that's done something of their own that you can use as kind of a bargaining chip if they if they know violated the law are done something on their part but without that if you got a landlord that has no fault whatsoever. Your Juergen I have a problem in your to be looking at a situation where you're probably to be paying something.

If so, that the question that the person asked this question, but it was bad timing.

So here were in assume the landlord hasn't done anything wrong. They just got a good deal on a house and went under contract and so they're obligated right save obligated themselves under a contract to buy a house and that independent of whether or not they get out there lease today very well may be liable for their lease for a while and rent and also be liable to the seller to go and complete this home purchase and have that bad situation where you have some rent due and a mortgage due. That's never it's never nice is never a good situation so you there you go. If you're looking at buying a house and you got a lease you're gonna need that did my professional advice. Do you figure out the lease situation before you get under contract on the property because you know the fact that you're buying a house you know some people may think I am buying a house. I got this contract, I'm good. And S not the case. Your agreement as to you and that landlord still exists and they are absolutely going to hold you to it and you were going to be potentially getting sued. It's amazing to me that I signed my first lease I got apartment when I was glad NC state rights house 17, 18 and signed ISOs 18 sign a lease on my own but you know there's I don't know that I read back then, an 18-year-old Josh appreciate it read that lease at all. I just signed whatever they put in front of me and and thankfully everything worked out the way it was the way I thought it would, but you know these are complicated legal contracts and I doubt many people give them a second thought.

One day when they sign up.

You know they are complicated like you said you have 50 pagers and so I'm I can sit here. It's not practical to encourage you to go through and read every single line and try to understand every single detail and nuance. But what I would encourage you to do is that you deftly want to familiarize yourself with a few key points in a Juergen one not use that familiarize yourself. As far as any kind penalties any kind of monetary fees that are going to be do to make sure you don't have any issues there any kind of due dates and then if anything else that you highlight you want to look at, you know how you terminate how you get out of this lease because even if you not trying to break the lease early. You want to know the procedure at the end of the process to make sure that you are terminating it properly and that you and I can have any kind issues with liability at the natural expiration of the lease term bodies leases you know you whether or not you could have pets is decided upfront and that's part of it so you don't have a patent and you will later get up. That is probably a process I just can't have a roommate move in with you without some sort of approval as to who the occupants of the of the apartment organ of the year that even a house or what have you. So even though your circumstances may change in the next was a Senate for a year.

You've agreed to up front how these things are going to be handled so you know those are always something to be aware of at least on the front and are leased to ask. Most of these are fairly standard, but eat your your site and for year so you're in it for for a little bit, the outlaw, law years, Josh Whitaker, Joe Hamer, Whitaker and Hamer law firm. They are the managing partners 46 combined years experience again offices in Raleigh, Garner Clayton, Goldsboro and Fuquay Green and soon to be in Gastonia and we talk real estate closings, estate planning, personal injury, criminal and traffic family line is just heard a lease. I mean we've all signed a lease at some point in our lives, and it is thick and there's a lot of verbiage there and you got to adhere to it and certainly breaking the lease can be. While it can be expensive so you gotta keep an eye on it. Certain legal questions that pertain to you. You can leave a message at 800-659-1186 and attorney will be in touch with you can also email questions to the show we got more questions what's coming up on the other side guys for next question Morgan is I get it a lot of different ways but I have simplified it into one legal question, do you have to open up in a statement someone dies that the outlaw law years, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer Whitaker and Hamer law firm to the managing partners there. 46.

Buying your six. Again offices in Raleigh, Garner Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay Ring, soon to be in Gastonia if you got a legal question pertaining to what's going on in your life and you gotta you need an answer. Here's the number 800-659-1186 leave your contact information and brief description of what's going on and attorney will be back in touch with you can also email questions to questions at the outlaw law. I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate not, referee, these two at each and every week here on the outlaw lawyers and guys.

I love the question-and-answer portion of the program you got another one yeah Morgan this question we get every day in a number different ways and act like like a said before, the breakout consolidated down into one simple question, but we get this basic question, do I need to open up an estate for someone who is past so it can be a spouse or a mom of a child, unfortunately, but we get that question a lot the past and in legalese. We call it her decedent someone he's passed away and they're there, not saying a what what do I need to new next and so I see that a lot. That's a lot of consults that I sit down with folks Joe I and I know you see that one to yeah it's it's something you see.

Frequently, you know, we do a lot of real estate transaction.

We do a little bit. Everything here, but one of those things that we definitely see a lot of is the estate administration side of things. So just simply put to the question of do you have to open up an estate when someone dies, I think the short answer to that is no but again it always depends this can depend on that individual.

It's going to depend on what they died owning and it can kind of end up being somewhat of a complicated question. Depending on the complexity of that individual's estate. As it stands, and what they had in place as far as their estate plan goes yeah sounds kinda callous the way that word in a look at it but basically if you pass away, and you don't own anything right if you pass away and and not just Austin comedian.

That's the goal right no matter how much money you make. No matter what you own. The goal is to use it all up so that you have zero dollars when you pass away, and so but if that happens, if you don't have anything.

You certainly don't need open up estate would be a waste of time and energy and money. That's what we do when when people show up like all right what assets do we have and we talk about probate assets versus nonprobate assets to general property.

Did you have life insurance do you have investment accounts do you have normal accounts, vehicles, did you become a debt that we have.

Depending on those answers as there is much different directions to go in the average person that we see. You know I had a house you had some vehicles has some some investments that kind of thing and those those folks having usually you're probably an open up some kind of estate is all different ways in real property in North Carolina, drives that training engenders all kinds of ways you can own real property where you might be able to avoid probate. Yeah you know you said it Josh.

There's there's a lot of ways that you can avoid probate. And there's a lot of things and mechanisms by which people know, especially people who have put some thought into their estate plan and have consulted with an attorney that a lot of things they can do to avoid that probate process and not say that's that's arguably gonna be the goal for everyone is to do as much as you can avoid that probate process to make things as easy on your loved ones that you leave behind as humanly possible and the best way to do that is to is to have a you will put together a professionally reviewed and prepared estate plan. So like you said if if you died owning real estate in the state of North Carolina. If you purchase that real estate and you took title with a spouse or if you took title with just any individual and you were what we call a joint tenant with the right of survivorship that right of survivorship is get a pass that property outside of any probate process to the other named individual that you you were a co-owner with so again, the question depends where you have to ask you a lot of questions to understand and to know whether that that estate is going to be necessary for you, but I think really that the lesson at the root of everything is really good to be to make sure that you have got your estate plan in order that you've consulted with an attorney that it's up to date. We talk a lot about the pitfalls and the horror stories that can occur if you have an estate that has not been properly planned. There's been changes since it was originally established, so it's something. Again, we never like to think about it. It's morbid it's it's it's not the best thing to think about, but it's extremely important that you make sure that those things are in order sooner rather than later.

Just on the reverse side is questions to ask questions, and as someone has passed away. I need to probate a will. Do I need estate into any need to administer an estate for that person in a kind of reverse of it. A lot of our answers are in depend on what kind of estate plan, if any, that person had and so that's always you know when you sit down with us to do estate planning will talk about trust you know will talk about. You can own this property is joint just right of survivorship. There's all these there's always ways to plan out a man, sounds you plan out your life right so if you're if you get a spouse. If you're married and were talking to you. We try to plan it so that when you pass away your spouse really doesn't have to be inconvenienced with probate in their life, at least financially, get out of the hopefully be morning that you're, you're gone and that's not easy what the rest of it will be easy.

They will have to deal with getting assets titled overgrown and sit down with the clerk at the courthouse for an attorney, so if you planned your estate out properly when you pass away everything should pretty easily transfer on over to your surviving spouse for the next generation or whoever you're looking out for.

If you don't that's what we end up sit down and talk about all right will not open up in a state grant you notice in the newspaper was CEO money to what assets do we need to sell to get this thing closed out so there's there's a lot you can avoid by having a good sound estate plan, said Josh. Hopefully the people are morning.

Hopefully they're not setting up and doing the. The tailgate at short test and celebrating you passing away, but you as as an attorney who does a lot of transactional real estate. I have a strong appreciation for a well-planned estate because in the absence of a well-planned estate man. It can be a true nightmare for somebody on the backend. That's either cleaning things up or try to dispose of your property and it can be a nightmare for your loved ones that you leave behind because they're the ones that are in have to deal with this and they're the ones that are to have to be doing the legwork going through the additional jumping through the hoops and anybody got a lot on they've Artie got a lot of stress on them. So again, cannot encourage you enough.

Make sure that you got your estate plan in order make sure it's been reviewed you. Have you heard how to contact us. We love to help you with that but but even if not us just I can't encourage you enough to go and talk to a professional about these things before before you get to the point where you need it you want to do it before you need it because when you need it. Your dad perfect opportunity to throw out this phone number if you got questions about estate planning 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186. You can also email your questions to the show you can always kick the tires. The website, the outlaw law The podcast will be available there but if you got a legal question. The fellows Josh Whitaker Joe Hamer managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer law firm can answer those for you and I got offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Marina and soon to be in Gastonia will another episode of the outlaw liars is in the books guys final words, your estate plan done every year you need to need to look at your estate plan is like any look at your insurance like CCA on top of it makes you think plaintiff done. Also, don't I want to keep listening is an attorney licensed to practice law in Carolina just appearing on the show. Maybe license North Carolina attorneys discussion of the show is meant to be general in nature and in no way should be interpreted as legal advice, legal advice can only be rendered once an attorney licensed in the state in which you live.

Have the opportunity to discuss the facts of your case with you. The attorneys appearing on the show are speaking in generalities about the law. North Carolina and how these laws affect aboriginal Carolinian.

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