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Is There a Mother in Heaven?, Pt. 2 (LDS Gospel Topics Essay Series)

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January 23, 2022 6:12 pm

Is There a Mother in Heaven?, Pt. 2 (LDS Gospel Topics Essay Series)

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January 23, 2022 6:12 pm

This episode we finish our discussion of the LDS Gospel Topics Essay, "Mother in Heaven." Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist kicks off the episode with a question about why the doctrine of a Mother in Heaven is considered authoritative doctrine when the direct support for it amounts to hearsay that Joseph Smith taught it along with the fact that it made it into an LDS Hymn. He notes that the doctrine that Adam was God has been declared to be heresy by subsequent LDS leaders even though Brigham Young taught it and claimed that Joseph Smith taught it. We hope that the rest of this conversation is helpful.


Your right and and fireflies will come back to router brightness. This week we are wrapping up our discussion of the LDS gospel topics essay titled mother and having thanks for listening. Let's get into it was going to next question so my clothing is the question you submitted. You asked how can this essay affirmed the firm that this is doctrine without an official vote/revelation/Scripture reference so match what you think about that is a comment that had earlier but work scripts. This it is interesting that the earliest reference To it before beginning him were basically just hearsay. The account of the women that claim that Joseph Smith told that there is a heavenly mother. Well we have another example would doctrine that has no official teaching from just Smith but claimed it also came from Joseph Smith and it came from an even more authoritative source claimed as taught in this but it has been declared heresy and that would be Deanna got doctrine which Brigham Young claim was taught by Joseph Smith director and so yeah I don't stand why what is accepted as doctrine. I mean, I guess because it made into a him and the other was rejected as false doctrine unit was taught by a prophet of the church so it seems like if one is accepted as true, yet one shall speak through and actually did have a missionary ministry told me that he he is is that you believe that God talk so there are only us out there. I do believe it even. I told him that has been refuted multiple times and I think it was Benson that kind of Benson or the minute kind of an official mint official talk about how we just don't believe it for summer college. He also has times as false doctrine. There is a specific talk were in general conference to specifically restrict repudiated down gone doctrine for those you don't know down got doctrine that Elohim or God the father and LDS beliefs was thought or nursing evidence that Brigham Young taught that God the father came down and took on a body.

The saki was the first the first man on the planet and he took his wife, either from a previous planet or something is no claim that this is talk to him directly by Joseph Smith. Seems that's what was been topic equals but a lot of what it is all just say the journal discourses is not center is not an authoritative source of doctrine, even though the court sometimes in their manuals, official sources eight choose what course to include. I guess, and so they said it may be as one wasn't written down correctly may be less misunderstood, etc. but I think that is pretty clear that did teach it so yeah so trapped all of the other was no vote on that one and it was kind of just gone by the wayside.

But this was also not barred as doctrine and I know many LDS will say that McKinnon's on the four books of Scripture. Whatever is at a later declaration is you don't have to believe it. So I guess technically don't have to believe in heavenly mother so that's a very strange situation like Terry SS Michael yes so Harold believe the prophets in the new era era magazine basically said this and read this here how we measure whether or not one's teachings are true or false teachers beyond the Scriptures teach really put it down is speculation except one man who has the right to bring forth any new doctrine that is the one man who holds the keys the prophets to rebel leader who presides in that high place, and no one else. If anyone presumes to bring forth what he claims to be new doctrine. You may know that it is purely his own opinion any label in his side regardless of his position in the church if it contradicts something that is the Scriptures you may label it immediately that it is false that is why we call the Scriptures are for standard church works. They are the standards by which we measure all doctrine and if anything is taught which is contrary to that which is in Scriptures in his house. It is just that simple. So I mean just being a human being Mormon is really familiar with that quote and as well like it if it's not in Scripture. If you can support your your belief in Scripture and its false daily president of the church when he made the statement is what I don't know that we can take that as is gospel to Matthews. It's really interesting to me. I've been doing a lot of thinking recently about LDS canonization in the process of putting you know something that the leadership has deemed worthy of putting forward to the membership of the church for a formal vote by common consent, which according to the doctrine and covenants is the method by which Latter Day Saints identify what their candidate is this by common consent to the membership which which is interesting concept when you think about it you know when when that section of the doctrine and covenants was first given. We were still Latter Day Saints were still in the era of gathering 21.

Place to live together in a community and so the idea of putting forth a new revelation, so to speak to the membership using a bill to put forth to the whole membership because they would be supposedly be there in one place together but in modern times when the when the most recent additions in 1979 was a 77 or 79 camera for sure when the most recent additions to the doctrine and covenants were added an opinion on split forth in general conference for common consent. There certainly were members all over the world at that point and so how can you be sure that the entire membership is approving of the addition of something else to to the canon and in our dense Matthews point you have the data God doctrine.

Of course, we also have the king followed discourse that many believe teaches most clearly the LDS view of God and and and humans becoming gods and yet it's something that is not been for put forth to the church for common consent and yet is something that is current.

Believe this because I revelation by many. Unless you try to hold their feet to the fire within them. They don't want to accept it.

So just an interesting concept. I thought it was interesting enough either of you got a chance to watch last night. The debate between radio free Mormon and midnight Mormon's quick UL Brad went back and see the guys name Cardinal something Cardinal Ellis. That's right, but Carmella's made the point about the Council of Nicaea and basically said you know, we reject that because it's a doctrine that was voted on. I couldn't help but laugh out loud when I heard him say that because the let the whole Latter Day Saints process as canonized for them to accept Canada's of voting process. So just interesting. I guess you could argue that they did not prophets of that time so you couldn't technically vote on anything added as doctrine. Because you know you need prophets first to receive revelation.

You could argue that because nobody argue she starts to write well because it was voted he blundered. He blundered, that so I know what was all kind of talked a little bit around the. The fourth question that we had for discussion with resolution.

The present Gordon B. Hinckley statement that the fact that we do not pray to a mother in heaven but no luck.

No way belittles or denigrates her that's the statement I was referring to. From 1991 that yeah I heard shared and given as a warning in an Sackler meaning when I was, so I guess 13 or 13 years old.

Any thoughts there on on how to how would not talk into the heavenly mother denigrate hers in my washer anything additional. I didn't cover that well enough already and are in our comments. If you have anything else to add to that Matthew before I go on anything else and nothing. The next question.

Also, as one might Michael smoother think is an interesting question his kiosks and Mormonism.

Does Jesus have the authority to deny us the privilege of worshiping heavenly mother since heavenly mother hadn't been revealed yet in New Testament times. According to Latter Day Saints teaching Jesus never said not to pray to her, wouldn't that make it acceptable, except that I would just say for a latter-day St. listeners have at answering that once I think it's a tough dilemma if you're if you're going to accept the heavenly mother is a doctrine that you should believe after any thoughts or yeah I'm trying to think of it as I would fire a lot of the same way our colleagues explain it. If I were Latter Day Saints is that since we know now about heavenly mother.

You know I'm thinking I'm saying as I just we know now that there's heavenly mother and with that revelation. We been commanded by advised that on enough this command is anything official and says don't scan it enough a faux pas line in the LDS church. I just don't regular and if there's any official declaration. This is, you can't regular, but it since we know now that there's only mother and even asked Rachel work now we have that light knowledge, no God gives you know, line upon line, precept upon precept, so now that we know we can't create necessarily the case.

If you are a saint in New Testament times. So they they might not even have known that there was a have so maybe it wasn't about to see what I mean like it seems like this is only an issue if you are thinking in terms of the knowledge that LDS claim to have Nat since that same price. The next question. If spouses cannot be exalted without each other. Doesn't that make them saviors to reach other Matthew anything about that. Yeah, that's a bit of a tough question when a mistake earlier at it have a lot of time studying. I guess were going to dance like three hours before Seth yeah I wouldn't if our LDS Pam LDS had again I probably wouldn't say that there might go saviors or co-redeemers.

It probably just be more like those are parts of the conditions, like LDS. Often they didn't have the covenants like God set forth this covenant which is which is like a contract. He says okay if you fulfill X, Y, and Z sign on the dotted line.

Fulfill your part of the bargain, then you'll get a B and C blessings, which includes exaltation and so signing a contract requires most of your signature and your spouse's signature sets probably how I is a latter-day St. will explain that that that you aren't saving each other as to secure both in on this agreement and since I'm going through criminal counseling with my fiancé talking about that that week that Christians still believe that marriage is a covenant and then you know God sets the conditions he's on the ordained marriage, getting and then you know we we take upon ourselves certain obligations and that covenant, and so there is some truth to that. The only difference on the major difference of course is that Christians believe that marriage is part of your salvation is not as a part of the new covenant marriage covenant is so yes answer the question yeah does only jump in here is the hardware the charitable to my former self jump in here is that the day you who once made a weird statement to his wife. So I mentioned before, like when we were first married.

I had two jobs and so I was I was gone a lot and after had two jobs.

I went back to school so I was again I gone all therefore 40 days a week until after 10 o'clock I get home from school and during those years it was it was really tough to kind of maintain our connection as a couple, because we were spending so many hours a day apart and we had a young family, young children, so her day is very stressful. While I was gone and it and it extended even beyond you know the normal stressors of the husband on 9 to 5. To me being gone, you know well after 10 o'clock and then coming home and having to dig into homework and my papers you know until 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock in the morning and and so there were a lot of times you when I would I would get into bed after a very long day and you know she would've Artie been asleep for a couple of hours and sometimes she would wake up and we have these late-night conversations as it is likely only time were to connect with one another and remember thinking along these lines that that Michael had posed in this question. You know that if spouses cannot be exalted without each other.

Doesn't that make them saviors to each other and just kind of feeling all the pressure of being a husband being a priesthood holder being a father known and trying to live up to all of the expectations of Batten constantly feeling like I was failing at it you know and just being in this mindset of this romantic mindset of you know I love my wife. Next is not great that the are supporting each other theories very difficult times. I made the statement to her that you know she saves me know and and then I was thinking specifically about the temple and and ceiling in that kind of thing in her response really caught me off guard because I thought it was kind of a romantic gesture and she was like whoa that's a whole lot of pressure put on me. I am not your Savior Jesus as your Savior and gnosis is it is something that you can get into them in LDS mindset, with the teachings about marital ceilings and in that kind of thing so some throw that out there that I'm I'm constantly the guy who made dumb comments to his wife.

Yeah, I dismember you might find I totally forgot about all I got married the first time in the temple and my father-in-law pulling me aside and basically telling me like you.

You know your wife's exaltation depends on you. And just like wow, that is like I get so much responsibility and you know there's so much on my shoulders, but they said that was just crazy and she brought this question out to use the latter-day Saints and in our debate group that were in it a little bit differently thought about it a little bit. The question I posed to them was what's more important, salvation or exaltation, because in my view of being LDS exhortation was the greater glory being just saved right now is actually going on to become a God is more important. You can't have a citation without your spouse does that not make your spouse more vital than Jesus and tell you they didn't like the phrasing of the question very much. They didn't seem the same night that they basically agree with Justin.

Like the phrasing of my statement of one of them actually went so far as to say that he God and his wife made him a holy Trinity and I'm just like, why are you talking so yeah aged lady go off the deep end with latter-day Saints. With this, but this doctrine here can so Jesus imagined born and raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, headquartered in commonly referred to as all of us have left that have been drawn to faith in Jesus Christ as our podcast this next John, 19 calls Jesus, the true light which gives light to everyone you found life young woman is brighter than we were told in the light, we have is not comes to us from without.

This is to share our journeys of faith God has done in joining us to his son. Stations about all aspects of the transition joys and everything in between that you found this histogram there is a why would anyone want to be like like them.

Heavenly parents when the mother has no contact with her children. According to LDS teaching method Michael thoughts on that one. Jumping on this 21st of May. Just some things I mentioned before, yeah, the mother has estimated that she exist right Mormonism is true she exist is no contact with. She is not an active member of the Godhead were not supposed to really pray to her. She has no way this is think of Mormon could maybe argue that will get reconnected have that relationship with her in the next life, but is was that relationship going to be compared to the relationship that we would have with the father.

For example, who sent his sign in like was helping us through our mortality and I think that that's what does the relationship go back and it's like oh there's there's this mother here who had no influence. You know on me the whole time when I was in this desperate situation of mortality and it was like I said in eternal life or death situation so and what I really see is like the father is the most high God. I don't see it being a an equal partnership is that this deadly speculation.

At least that there may be multiple heavenly mother so you get this situation, possibly where you got to share your spouse with all these other heavenly mother's and I don't see how you could possibly call that an equal union. If that's the case, I just don't see anything appealing about the idea of heavenly mother, or be able to be that when it seems like the only purpose that she serves is to have the spirit children and then not to interact with them during our mortality. And there's absolutely no indication in Scripture of any sort of indication even in the appropriate price when it talks about moral state. There is no mention of her. So yeah right I just don't see how that would be something that I went down this be easier to attain to someday in the next. I will even want to be a father figure because I don't feel like you would be right to treat my wife. That way you plan children. I feel like it would make me a moral monster to tell my children I can see her or or ever talk to her or anything or even reveal her existence to them. I just you'll keep it a secret. Their whole lives and I think if they are really her children right to know you agree with that. I think you become a ghost. My question earlier like white and then Matthew's question to why why does this doctrine persist right if it's if it's not something that is something that there's that there warning about constantly for something that they censure women for talking about why does it persist with them. LDS church unless unless it's tied to the idea of polygamy, which is tied to eternal marriage even monogamous lady, which is a doctrine that completely unwilling to give up and so – just to scan interests made from a from a sociological perspective why this persists and then agree with you Michael like why would you what about heavenly mother would want make you want to become like her. If you never have any kind of interaction with her at all. Matthew any thoughts on this question.

Now elect what you guys said it's it's almost like holding heavenly mother hostage and it's like stare here my ransom demands follow the commandments payer tie go to the temple you baptized dear genealogy work and if you do that there's a chance to see your mother thing that that way it's going to stop, but it is interesting to talk let me know. Several latter-day Saints or the liberal spectrum that would actually do pray to heavenly mother. So there are some that I mean this not present. Many of them are some the data and they connect some of them connect heavenly mother to Asher, which was a goddess that, fertility got a sitting that was kind of was his biggest wave of the worship of her. In the Bible is not cast in a very positive light. And I think that goes along with the view the GTD theory and other theories that say that Scripture was edited after Babylon, the Babylonian exile to be more monotheist to remove any kind of reference to worship of the mother and there's really no evidence of that, other than like textile variance at the point to see the Bibles and change has been edited and water down and they remove all the controversial stuff is let's argue where Mary Asher. It's like such a huge jump to get to that point in my can is not sufficient evidence that major parts of the Bible and then to jump from that point to stay well they used to worship Asher on that was the actual heavenly mother and that was accepted practice blessed cute blessing bigger. Joe so yeah Hudson thinks of their yeah to go back to the original question.

I think a lot of women are there attractive. The idea because women are just naturally, many of them. I will say all but many of them in the LDS church don't really have a lot of freedom as become talked about is a lot of rules in the church and they do have some kind of no callings in the church but they're not really the years and so this concept of being able to have children in heaven is kind of appealing to some to some people. Some of this women.

This idea being constantly pregnant or what our that's gonna work in heaven for eternity. Sounds like a nightmare so but but most of the associated how gods reproduce to make spirit children and so you know but but the idea of having eternal families. Something I know that personally no women in the church of said is appealing to them and just the idea a promise of eternal happiness because call the plan of happiness in their church. That's really appealing to them. So that's what Kevin and I draws them to join the church, I think, but yet he really think that it might not much from the perspective youngest just because I felt like we are in this together, and like maybe we had different goals are different desires that mean in terms of following the plan of happiness.

Notice church, but we were all trying to head for the same direction so I don't know any of them expensing on seems like only show this person has something that gives them more motivation I'll miss it. Everything in for men and women discover different points so lots of lots and lots of good conversation here tonight. Good to have the three of us all. `I see I see you got Dr Pepper, PhD with us now. Matt Michael Gaddafi back man, even if it's just for a one off Jaromir Glenda glad to have you with us. Thank you for joining us in Matthew.

Thank you for joining me and Michael on on short notice.

I know you weren't planning to join us today about the let me know you have some free time so appreciate it since come to close out on on talking about briefly how we view this doctrine. This LDS doctor now as Christians let one of you go first as you want to pull something up and click sure about already mentioned about the debate between average of three more men in the midnight column selves is kind of all over the place an avenue watching all that you lost by half of it and it's strange because a certain point, one of the people on the LDS side gray goo L about the fact that either.

It's obscured or it's hidden or is not shared about the eternal nature and is LDS big deal.

He said all time eternal nature eternal relationship with God, whatever, but as a Christian.

Now think about that site. If you're claiming to be eternal. You're claiming to be God because there is no eternal one, but God and so anytime we talk about you know what what God is or who God is and how we can become like him.

We can become conformed to the image of Christ and only become part of his image and sanctification were reared in our sin is so encouraged and where you become more like him, but were never going to be exactly like him in his divine nature because he's eternally God is unchanging, like God and he talked about this and other episodes, and so to claim that whatever God is. Now we can become exactly like that.

It just makes my skin crawl because it puts God on such a lower level is like not so I've been so rely if listeners don't know I'm called a nuclear colonist.

I studied engineering and I am a Calvinist remake on the dock because in college. Basically half my thing and this makes like 14 years is a link that 1314 years of college. Yes, my glass of explicit know actually an latter-day Saints and I'm a nuclear colonist is that we people earn in nuclear hellfire for eternity/life. But anyways, back to the subject seven called her longtime rate and it's like it's been a really long road back to our to tell myself your one all the stuff I have to go through. I probably would not because it's been rough but you know God's got me through a number think before, but I feel like that's correct. The LDS view of exultation like it's a rough journey, but you can make me eat you can become God's's an attainable goal and it it makes God finite you know, like, okay, maybe I did minor 14 years and they have to take 500 years, but still 500 years, he could become God or a god. It kinda cheapens the magnificence and the glory of God is a something that we as finite humans can attain and you know we need Jesus to do it. It's still something is still a race that we have to run LDS doctrine and so yeah just everything about it. When you think about having a heavenly mother or even his father having a human, no male body that's glorified LDS think that's an advantage to them, but really it's it just because it just it just makes everything it it changes every every one of these changes, each taken on its own completely reshaped. I sin you redemption a view justification may use faith. You know it all, it all becomes part of this kind of like hamster wheel that every person that has ever existed has to go through knowing God went through to his God went there and it is gone with and just it just reduces the uniqueness of God's plan for us and being the only gun existence only having one son and everyone else being adopted children by being grafted in it and united to his faith and just just cheapens it makes it into like you know it's like if you recall, it looks you know DC comics is an account but every every month like every every time you know there and there's a new person becoming a God every month and there's there's millions of trying to call it. What is mind going to universe out there.

Become God's saviors know but for us to know that this is the only existence that there is hardly know there's only one God. To me that just might just it it doesn't reduce everything. Many LDS think it is expands it for meto think wow this is all there is to know when this is the only God have you know there's there's not other gospel now around there that are greater than is easily the best there is. We can pray directly resin is LDS.

You know you don't know who the highest honors you don't know who the most high God is technically because as a god but God never ends. But we can pray to the most most most high God is above all and we can never become exactly like him because there's no way you know it's like you can you can become more like but to say we can go to the same the same Academy that he did know; the police academy go to college and by the end you get a diploma and you'll get it get all of these favors as a God now and it's it's just very very sad because I know that's what so many of them are working towards, but is just a false promises of false view of suspicious a very depressing and limited US of who God is so lots of thoughts on that. They're really great. That's Matthew appreciate what you said there a map and Michael jump in and then I'll send this out. Yeah, I should not let myself follow Matthew after that amazing really agree with everything you said you remember being at church one time and when my leaders in the other storm was talking was done in the hallway and is his son was probably eight or nine, but my son's age right now and he made mention about in God's power and the_president kind of you know the smirk on his face, talking to his sons. He doesn't have any powers. He is using the natural order of the universe.

I think that I really just flows from all this theology that we've been talking about you know God is really not that special. He's he's the same species that we are and when we involve were just using more science or more, you know, just to have a greater ability to use the natural universe around us and so even as a latter-day St. That really put a bad taste in my mouth when I saw that exchange. But as far as how I feel about the doctrine of a heavenly mother and she put on an article recently called heavenly mother. Are you really there and understood quote a couple lines from that is really pretty clear indication of how I feel about the dog and by state to those invested in the heavenly mother mass.

I offer this plea and your animosity and rebellion against God. This theology only serves one purpose and that's to siphon away God's glory and idolatrous heart craves a heavenly mother celestial marriage and priesthood ordinances… Salvation and anticipates heavenly joy anywhere. It can accept God and embraces an ideology of any creed that Christ so just go away when that he's been saying you if there are infinite God is out there that God is not unique or special at all but is the only one. If you take away all those other gods. It makes our God infinitely more unique or interesting or powerful, more worthy of our worship. And so that's why I'm a Christian and not a latter-day St. At this point is I don't want to worship a being who is not unique and special, whose is just like I asked you how I want to worship the most high God somebody who was higher than I'm never going to be and I'm okay with that. You know, because I'm not trying to usurp God's authority having that's that's Satan in the Bible was trying to usurp God's authority and you know I think that is really it is our sinful nature that wants to be equal to him. I think ultimately that's what it comes down to sign off when he does think they're really good thoughts their microgrids definitely dovetailed with what Matthew had said previously, and I'll see if I can, some up as well. One of the most mind expanding experiences that I had was in my first semester at Cincinnati Bible seminary when I was taking my intro to theology course in reading Dr. Jack Cottrell's book, and he talks about the difference between anthropocentric theologies and theocentric theologies, anthropocentric theologies being theologies that began with man as the central focal point and looking to understand God from the perspective of humanity and then theocentric theologies being those that are focused on God's word and what he has revealed about himself and so it goes directly to what I think about this. This LDS doctrine of her mother in heaven, now is a Christian because a lot of the progressive Christian scholarship that we talked little bit about sniping a Margaret Barker and Francesca stomach the pooling and know from a latter-day St. perspective Daniel Peterson with the finest Asherah and and Daniel McClellan and his views. He did is Matthew mentioned McKenna take the view that the GPD view that that scripture was added after the Babylonian captivity and that what you see in archaeology and a lot of the archaeological digs in ancient Israel. As you see Asherah right received Eusebius graven images of Asherah and it takes the view that that that that the underlying presupposition to that is that all this is normative.

This is what the Israelites were worshiping. They were worshiping Yahweh, and they were worshiping Asherah. They were spinel and they were worshiping Asherah right in the underlying assumption there is that because you find that in archaeology that and and you can you assume that it's normative that that's what was the appropriate worship by that, then they put little = between the two words normative and appropriate with you do that if you do that with our society today, there is a lot of forms of worship, New Age, even you know Satanism there's a lot of forms of worship that are quote unquote normative because they can be found within the society even in a in in large-scale that doesn't make them appropriate forms of worship right and so ultimately the young, the underlying presupposition of this this liberal progressive theology that that some Mormons are adopting because it it seems to align with this since the stock of theirs.

The mother in heaven is that it's anthropocentric you're starting with humanity in your arguing to. Therefore, the nature of God and as you both rightly said that's not a very it's not a very impressive or it doesn't inspire me to worship right because you even latter-day St. Scripture says that that that that fallen man natural man is an enemy to God right and so to try to argue from humanity in the forms of worship that we come up with unstable this much this must be how the heavens are than I've ever recently been. I was listening through on my Kindle app Parley P.

Pratt, who was latter-day St. apostle and kind of his first systematic theologian and he talks about, you know that the speed at which gods are able to travel between the planets in the universe because they have the key to the science of theology. They have the priesthood and to point Matt Michael that he retied Malik that the gentleman in your in your ward talking to a son rated early Latter Day Saints really did view this. This is a very scientific thing. I will just be using more science to be more powerful and that's that that's the view of God, and it is very event does very much end up being rooted in 19th-century evolutionary scientific thought and of what man can become. But what we have with Christianity is. We have God revealing to them to us as humans that he is our creator. Without him we would not exist at all, were not eternal beings, God brought us into existence for his good purpose and it is a good purpose and and that that's what leads to worship and been true worship of the true God and so is as a Christian.

Now I just think you know the theologies that that seek for a divine feminine. I think they missed the mark with what we have with the true God, and the start of this human centered place negative stuff. Thank you, Paul and the Michael appreciate your thoughts on this talking you guys about the sum theology tolerance and I know when a business can be you and me.

Michael I said I wanted to talk a little bit about your your article but maybe we can have you back on sometime soon to talk about your latest article 17 evidences of the devil's church. Would you be willing to come back on the wall. Talk about them and come back on talk about that. I think I'd be great. Will set up some time to do that and Matthew. I know you and Allison on Facebook but you want to tell our listeners with the big news as well and he kind of alluded to chuckle about a little bit so bit, really, really good out there.

The big news grant. Yeah so aside from past APC defense.

Yes, I got engaged a couple weeks ago so it's a very thank you Dr. T thinking that we didn't run into Mr. Ted and BA Esq. I'm glad that he stayed in his cage before I came here yeah think Indiana so ISO got engaged or planning getting married December system a very short engagement since I'm starting them graduating starting my new job in Florida.

I'll be moving to Idaho since I'll be working remotely so we can wanted to know get done quick so in case that there also have been so yeah, thank you for sending us so I'm looking forward to to see them where where God takes you in that relationship and really praise God for his goodness and bring the two that I know you shared in your story episode in a difficult pass with with being engaged previously in and how painful that wasn't just really happy to see all the gods doing in your life so brazen amen and praise God.

Likely final thoughts for the for the fireflies.

Hey guys, I love you and miss you. Hope things are going well in all of your lives, and hope to come on and talk to you are on the podcast again soon.

Thanks for the protection of its been good. I really enjoyed talking talking about tonight I'm doing. If you think you thank you for tuning into this episode of the outer brightness podcast.

We'd love to hear from you.

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