Christianity in the Workplace Part 2

Hello, this is Matt Slick from the Matt Slick Live Podcast, where I defend the Christian faith and lay out our foundations of the truth of God's Word. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just a few seconds. Enjoy it, share it, but most of all, thank you for listening and for choosing the Truth Podcast Network.

This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Man Talk, brought to you by TAWCMN, talking and walking Christian men's ministry, where they're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination and challenging men to take their God-assigned role. Here's our hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy.

Well, I can't help but laugh every time I hear Robbie introduces a black guy and a white guy. And folks, in case you don't know the history behind that, it was all designed to show a sense of unity. Exactly. So it has nothing to do with any kind of separation. It's about showing two men walking and following Christ of different, that don't look exactly the same, different colors, if you will, and that love each other and that serve God, and that can be inherited with you and join you to have a conversation with us. I'm just going to use the old cliche, brothers by different mothers. Amen. And if our mothers could see us now, how proud would they be?

Exactly. So Roy, last week we were talking about Christianity in the workplace. We're going to begin again by talking about this. Last week, we gave, talked about discriminatory practices and things that you can share when you were at work.

We defined the EOG. We said where this information came from that we're using as a guide to educate the listeners with respect to what your rights are in the work environment. So today I want to ask you the question, Roy, can I bring my Bible to the work environment? You know, when I was reading through this paperwork, Will, that is a great question because I have a Bible in my office and I know you keep one in yours and most followers of Christ do. And it's a good thing because, and some people may even ask, why do you have your Bible in your office?

But you certainly can. And it's interesting how they respond on this question, Will. As with witnessing to co-workers, an employee can bring his Bible to work and keep it at his desk or her desk if he is required to do so by sincerely held religious beliefs. Now that goes back into what your personal conviction is. If you say, Hey, I won't have access to my Bible. It is my belief in need and desire to have it there.

Then you can have it there. Especially Roy, if it, which the Bible does, it gives you strength. It enlightens. So you want to have this enlightenment. You want to have the direction or even when you're at lunch to have your devotion. If you have your devotion, if you don't have it in the morning, you want to have it at lunch. That's right. And so therefore it is okay to have your Bible at work.

Absolutely. Just to ensure that this religious belief of having a Bible or other religious items at work is protected by Title VII. An employee should, first of all, be able to honestly say that their original religious beliefs require them to bring these items to work. And keep in mind, this, these Title VII, as Will shared in the last show, is not just for followers of Christ.

It's across any scope or realm of a person's belief in their religious realm. So it protects everyone, which is the way we want it to be, right? Exactly. So this, this next question, is my employer permitted to restrict what I say when I'm at work? Or when you're not at work as well, right? That's right.

That's right. This is an interesting topic because we've all seen situations as of late where people on social media are doing things that ends up costing their jobs because it conflicts with the corporate statement or corporate position of things. And you know, you know, Roy, just to make this quick statement, that's one of the first places now an employer will search when you apply for a job is to see whether you're on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, and all these accounts. And then what you're saying with respect to that, even before they hire you.

Yeah. Even before they call you, there may be a service that may be why you're not getting some calls if you got some stuff out there that's questionable. And again, it goes back to what we said on the last show, you should, your actions should back up what your belief is so that you really don't have to say a whole lot. People should be asking you questions on why you're different than the rest.

But that's a great question. And here's what the Title VII summary response is. Employers generally cannot discriminate against employees because of religious speech expressed outside of the workplace. The only possible exception is if speech activity engaged in outside the workplace directly affects the employee's ability to perform his job properly.

For instance, even though not acting their official capacity, judges have been prohibited from speaking out about issues on which they may have to rule. And if you recall, our guest of last year, who now is Chief Justice Newby, but was at the time one of the Supreme Court Justice. Yep, yeah, actually was. I spoke on that very thing because we were on a topic and it may have been on abortion, I believe, if I remember correctly, we asked him a question. He said, guys, I appreciate the question. But because I may have a case that may be forthcoming around this topic, I can't comment directly on that question.

But then he shared some other other narrative around the issue. So very good point here. So great question, Will. You know, and and I think with that said, Roy, it it gives the employee some flexibility. But I think we also need to be mindful of the company in which we're working for. Because even though we're not working for the company, when we are not on the job, we still represent great, great, you see the individual and the image that we should present based on the company in which we're working. I agree with you totally, Will.

And that's a great pause right there. We definitely need to remember that you are represented on the clock or off the clock. So your behavior, your words, your actions, the whole nine yard says something about your company indirectly, because you are representing the company as an employee of the company. So we do need to be mindful of that. And again, this is about basically just being a follower of Christ and exercising your ability to practice your faith and celebrate your faith and share your faith as an opportunity presents itself. That's right, because the two reasons, Roy, why we don't share our faith is that we are afraid of repercussion, which we talked about that in the last show. And we're basically ignorant of what the law says. And see, I must admit, I threw up my hands and I must admit that as I was starting to read through Title VII, a lot of what Title VII says under the EEOC, and remember under the EEOC, that's Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. And again, what we're reading from has been summarized by the ACLJ, which the American Center for Law and Justice, done a great job on this. So what we need to understand is don't allow yourself to be ignorant. It's just like, if you encounter, I'm just going to throw it out there, a policeman on a police stop, there are certain rights that you have. If they're stopping you because you were speeding or if you didn't come to a complete stop at a stop sign, and when they start asking you where you're coming from or where you're going, you really don't have to answer that under the law. Precisely.

You don't. And you know, and it's unfortunate with a lot of stuff that's gone on under that realm over the last couple years. And certainly we can never do without our police officers, nor would we want to. Exactly. They, there's many, many, many of them do a fantastic job. Most all of them do a fantastic job for us.

There are, just like in anything, there's an exception here and there, and we can't judge the majority by the exceptions. That's right. And it's important and being respectful too, while we're on this topic, you know, you and I have had this conversation before and I was reading something today where a kid had got into a fight in a high school, and I hate to sidetrack here for a moment, but I think it's an important note. She was at a school that she shouldn't have been on. She was an adult that was there fighting with a 15 year old, 18 year old fighting with a 15 year old. She gets in the car, drives off, and they almost hit a safety officer on the way out. And he unfortunately pulled his gun and shot into the car, which he from the outside narrative doesn't appear he should have done that because there was no threat to him. Here, the young lady has ended up basically brain dead and all for nothing, you know, here for nothing.

So folks, we need to be respectful of each other, be respectful of the law enforcement. Hate to sidetrack, but it's one of those opportunities. Will and I have had this conversation offline a few times, quite a few times. If you don't break the law, then your interaction with the law should be much less probability. Minimal. Minimal. It'll be minimal. And then, then if you have an exception that something goes wrong in that minimal exposure, then deal with it properly. Exactly. Time with the phones recordings and do just what Will said. There's certain things you don't have to do, so don't do it, but be respectful of each other as well as especially the law enforcement officers. They're out there to protect you, care for you and be there for you. But if you get treated wrong, you have an escalation process that's to go through within the city council and within their bosses. Know your rights, know your rights, know your rights. And you might need to give them definition of ignorance, Will. So Roy, when some people asked, and I know there's a lot of denominations that are out there that practice this next one, and the question again is a good question, that if my faith prohibits me from working on Sunday or Saturday, if Saturday is the Sabbath for you, then does my employee need to accommodate me?

That's a great question, Will, based on what many people exercise. Even we have a friend from our men's group that celebrates Saturday or recognizes Saturday as his Sabbath, and he's not part of a particular denomination. It's back to his research in the Bible when the actual Sabbath occurred based on the clock and timing.

So he recognizes Saturday as his Sabbath. So the ruling behind this is that if you basically establish with your employer that this, based on your religious beliefs, this is your window of your Sabbath. As long as it doesn't create an operational handicap to the company, they need to accommodate you.

And they should accommodate you based on these guidelines. The only exception is if it creates a handicap or operational deficit to the company. If you're irreplaceable because your expertise, then there has to be some sort of work around. And you may not be able to be off, but there are only very few exceptions. And that has to be addressed based on the need versus the talent versus the skill of the individual. Exactly.

And it's not necessarily a one for one switch. They also made that known, too, that accommodation is not necessarily saying the supervisor is going to you and say, well, you find somebody who you need to change shifts with or do schedules with in order to accommodate them. So that's basically not reasonably making an attempt to accommodate the need of that individual.

Yeah. And another piece about this, Will, that's very important is that you may be of a faith or in your particular belief system that you have more than one exception. May it be that it's not just the Sabbath you're having to recognize. It may be that also you can't do something else that's required within your work environment that goes against your beliefs. One does not preclude or cause exception to be totally excluded from the other.

It doesn't mean, well, oh, they've got two, so therefore we're honoring one so we don't have to honor the other. Exactly. Employer is required to try to accommodate if there's multiple needs or exceptions or accommodations that need to be made. They're required to try to facilitate whatever means necessary to accommodate those requirements. And I think that's why these things are asked to be put in writing and upfront as soon as you come to a realization. That there's a conflict. Right. Or that this is a sincere belief that you hold.

I want to get it to my employer as quickly as possible so we can go ahead and, you know, they can make the adjustments as to attempting to reasonably accommodate the individual or the employee's needs. Yeah. Well, folks, we'll get ready to step away for a break here for just a few seconds. This is good stuff. We thank you so much for joining us here on part two of this great topic.

We'll again thank you so much for bringing this forward and it's good to be back on week two with you guys and we'll be back here in just a moment. Christianity in the workplace. Know your rights. TAWCMM would love to have you join their community of men for breakfast every first and third Friday of every month. They have Bible discussions and fellowship after the best breakfast in town. The meeting location is at their gracious host church, First Christian Church in Kernersville, 1130 North Main Street in Kernersville.

They have a hard start at seven o'clock and a hard stop at eight o'clock. First time visitors eat for free. Join your hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy. Affordable chiropractic in High Point. As you might tell from their name, affordable chiropractic, even for the cash patient. Dr. Jeff Fricke has been caring for patients in High Point for 34 years. Physical therapy such as ultrasound and spinal decompression for disc conditions such as herniation, comprehensive care for auto accident injury patients with no out of pocket expense. Remember, affordable chiropractic on West Lexington Avenue in High Point.

Call 336-885-1987. It's just making me happy over here, Roy. I think when you start dancing, well maybe not dancing, well they can't see us, can they?

Keith will be able to see us, the end of the line will cut us off. He said, stop it, y'all are killing me over here. But you know, this is Roy, a great topic. And again, it comes back to there are all kinds of facets, men, to this industry. And I know a lot of people might be thinking, why are you talking about this? Well, we gave you all kinds of reasons why you need to understand why we're talking about this topic because it's not all about race.

It's not all about race. There's different arms, there's different avenues to this ministry. And so this is just one arm to educate you, men, to what your rights are. We do this when it comes to the scripture, Roy, during the breakfast we've educated men and say, you know, here's topics of discussion, we've gotten into the Bible, we're involved now with Dr. Nickens giving us history of the Bible, and it's just so refreshing.

And the men are really taken to this. It's really refreshing because this is showing you the ministry from a wide perspective and not just a narrow race. Well, the race is just a piece only because society's made it a piece. We're trying to downplay that and break down the walls of all that stuff. And that's such a challenge because so much of this stuff is hardwired from the time we were kids up. And you and I know we both grew up in the time that things were just starting to break through. And it's been such a difficult challenge. But hey, folks, we're here to do just what Will shared with you.

We're here to educate, empower and basically create a cohesion and a collaboration amongst brothers that walk together. So, Roy, I know with this next question, we actually had someone who experienced this. So this next question is, can my employer force me to work on jobs or to do something with respect to supporting a organization or something that goes against what I believe? Excellent, Will. And this specific example speaks to abortion. Exactly.

That's the way they've the narrative they've created and responded to. And folks, while we're there, you know, the do not support it, do not support it, don't rationalize it, don't accept it. Period.

Mm hmm. Period. Sixty three million babies have been aborted since it was legalized. And that's not counting the day after appeal. That's those that we know about that have been recorded aborted.

So in the while we're on that topic, the recent proposal in the House was to allow abortion to in all 50 states to a full nine months at the choice and discretion of the mother. And that is absolutely unequivocally wrong and a sin. So we need to stand on it. You disagree with that? Go back to scripture.

I'll leave it at that. So now given this example says, can an employer force me to work on jobs that specifically support abortion? Title seven requires employers to accommodate employees who refuse to do specific tasks because of a conflict with religious with respect to religious beliefs. For instance, an employer has been required to accommodate a religious worker's objections to abortion. In that case, an Internal Revenue Service employee refused to handle applications for tax exempt statuses submitted by any organization which supported abortion.

The court ruled that accommodating the employee would not result in undue hardship to the employer because the number of applications the employee might refuse to handle would be relatively insignificant as compared to his or her total workload. And, you know, Roy, this also sort of like brings back to mind the baker. I think it was in Colorado or Utah, whatever state it was, refused to make a cake for a same sex marriage. And, you know, that was something that, again, with his faith and his beliefs, that goes against what the scripture says. And of course, he won that. It took some time, but he did win. It went all the way to the Supreme Court. And in fact, I think his business went up. He had so much business.

He had to actually hire more employees to accommodate the orders that were coming in. So again, I think that just this is just one instance now. But it shows you the favor of God when you stand against truth and not error. Yeah. Stand on truth. Yeah. Stand on truth.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We want you to stand against error and for truth. You know what I'm talking about. I know what you're talking about, but somebody might have just turned and said, This is true, this is true, this is true. So standing for the truth, because what it does is it's going to put you automatically when it comes to society's point of view, it's going to put you in a different category.

It is. We know the scripture tells us you're going to be persecuted because of your fall in Christ. We know that.

And the early followers were persecuted and executed and everything that went on. So, folks, but if God is for us, who can be against? Absolutely.

They may be against us in the surface and in the initial confrontation. But at the end of the day, we know how the story ends and he knows where your heart is. So he's going to take care of it.

And it may look totally different when it's finished than what you thought it was going to look like. But you can always rest assured he's got you undergirded and got the undercarriage for you. Vengeance is mine. I shall repay, say it the Lord. Every knee shall bow to him and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Amen. That's how it ends, folks.

Yes. We are victorious and all who stand for Christ is victorious. Amen will.

Amen. So employees who have a religious objection to abortion can request that their employer not require them to work on projects involving abortions. The employer will be required to grant this request if it can assign these projects to other employees without undue hardship. So there is there is another back to the undue hardship to the employer. So we have to be sensitive to that. You know, if it's reasonable to have accommodations and not disrupt the operations exactly, then it should be able to be accommodated.

Now, keep in mind, folks, like anything, there are exceptions. You may be in a highly trained role that there's just no one to replace you. If that be the case, you just need to pray about it and just ask God to open the door for you to maybe change jobs or to get a different role within the company that doesn't create that conflict or put you in that position. And if they and if they cannot accommodate you, they have to give the reasons why. And so with the reasons why now you can take that forward if you want to pursue it with with a EOG individual or, you know, a employment attorney or someone like that, if you want to, at least inquire, the EEOC or an attorney.

So it's important. Again, we're not supporting litigation, not supporting lawsuits. All we're saying is just know your rights. And sometimes it's good to just have a question with an attorney and a quick conversation. They say, look, is this right?

And they'll let you know right away if it's if it's in line or not in line. Exactly. And that's what you want to know. And there's nothing wrong with doing a sanity check on those things. No.

So we'll we'll give you the question now. One of these that from the narratives, can my employer require me to speak in a way that violates my religious convictions? No, they can't force you, Roy. They cannot force you to violate your religious practices. I think from the standpoint of basically what Title seven says, that if you're protected by religious freedoms and you're allowed by the Title seven to bring your Bible to speak on certain issues that no, you know, because, again, this protection is it it's there for a reason. And we're speaking only from the religious standpoint of that particular title, not not age discrimination or any other type of discrimination, which is covered under the Civil Rights Act of 1967. So we're only speaking from from the standpoint of the religious piece.

But, you know, it's just like what we were talking about. A person might say, oh, have a happy winter holiday with respect to saying simply Merry Christmas, you know? And it's like we say it, Roy, if Merry Christmas, if Christmas is not only simply a government U.S. government, but it's also recognized in Canada, Mexico and abroad.

It is. As Christmas, yes, and yet we might be defined by saying winter holiday. So that in and of itself, we can come back and say that based on my religious beliefs that I say Merry Christmas and I want to be told Merry Christmas. Exactly. Interesting you say that, Will, in this particular example, because it's not it's not it's not prohibiting anyone else by saying happy winter holiday. Right. It's just permitting us to say Merry Christmas, even though winter holiday may be the statement that the company or certain individuals are using.

Right. And an example they used on this was the reverse of that in that this lady was fired from her job because she did not want to choose a response for answering the phones. I guess she was a receptionist admin support. So she was answering required answer the phone, Merry Christmas. Lesco was the company I believe she was working for based on the narrative. And so she refused to say it because she was a Jehovah's Witness and didn't celebrate Christmas and didn't recognize it. So they terminated her, but they they were found to be in error and in fault because they should have made accommodations, either taken off that task during the holiday season or just allowed her to say, you know, happy holidays or winter holiday, whatever is part of her greeting, but they didn't try to accommodate.

And she was in a role that could have obviously been accommodated. Oh, absolutely. Yep.

So that's that's a great, great point there, Will. So then and we come we're coming down to the end here, but do I have to pay union dues, Roy, if if these union dues violate my religious beliefs? Well, you know, that's interesting question, because some union dues have portions going out to organizations that they support, which basically support their union efforts. Right.

But what the narrative coming back from the from the group here isn't on Title sevens. Many employees object to the causes that some unions support, such as Planned Parenthood, as we've talked about, or other pro-abortion organizations. Several courts have held that those objecting to the payment of union dues on religious grounds should be accommodated by allowing employees to contribute an amount equal to their dues to an acceptable charity. Another possible accommodation is discounted union dues in proportion to the amount of money spent on the objectionable union activity. So the point right. So the point here being is understand, based on your union, where the dues are going. And then you can come back and say, if the union dues are supporting XYZ, now you can come back and say, I want to put a portion of my union dues going toward this organization.

Right. And if you're a follower of Christ and you need a place to put those monies, talk them dot com would be more than happy to take your tax deductible charitable contribution because we continue to spread the word. We never talk about raising money, but certainly there's an opportunity if you have a need to place some money somewhere and would like to help support our ministry. We'd love for you to be there and be a part of it. So, Will, it's as always great to see you again. Good to be back on week two. Missed you folks and Mr. Will immensely and look forward to seeing you in the next few hours.

God is good. And remember, know your rights, know your rights, know your rights, and we'll see you next week as we wrap up today's show. Be assured that TAWCMM talking and walking Christian men's ministry is building a community of men that are Christ followers with the desire to be servant leaders in their homes, communities, churches and work environments. Check out our website for upcoming events and regularly scheduled meetings. Drop us a note for topics that you would like to have us visit in the future. Thank you for joining us on Man Talk today. Visit us at www.tawcmm.com. Men walking the talk.

This is the Truth Network. Say, what would you do if you were a new Christian and you didn't have a Bible? It's Michael Woolworth, by the way, from Bible League International. And you'd probably say, well, I'd hop in my car. I'd go to a Christian bookstore or have one shipped to me.

What if those weren't options? You'd say, well, I'm new to the faith. I mean, I need to know what it means to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus.

You know, you would pray that someone, anyone would bring you a Bible. And that's exactly the way it is for literally millions of Christians around the world. They're part of our spiritual family. They're new to the faith.

They want to know what it means to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus. But God has them planning where it's very difficult to access a Bible. And that's why the Truth Network and Bible League have teamed up to send God's word to thirty five hundred Bible believers around the globe.

Our campaign is called The World Needs the Word. Five dollars sends a Bible. One hundred dollars sends twenty. Every gift matched. Make your most generous gift by calling 800 YES WORD. 800 Y E S W O R D. 800 YES WORD or give at truthnetwork.com