You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis, and welcome back to the Clearview Today studio. We got a great show for you guys today.
Thank you for joining us on this great Tuesday afternoon. I'm here in the studio with Dr. Shah, who is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah, good to see you, my friend.
Good to see you guys as well. I've got a great game that I want to play with you guys. This is called Pick It Up and Preach. Ryan, while I'm getting the objects, do you want to describe what Pick It Up and Preach is? I would love to.
So, Pick It Up and Preach is where we are assigned a random object. We've never seen these objects before in our lives. We've probably seen them before. We just don't know what these objects are going to be before right now. And we have a very limited window to come up with an object lesson that will enhance a person's walk with God, deepen their spiritual life, or reveal some biblical truth based on these items.
That's right. Dr. Shah, you are the resident expert at preaching. You've been doing this exact game for real since you were a little kid in India. That is yours.
That is, for those listening at home, I've just handed Dr. Shah a candle. Ryan, this. Is yours? I didn't pick these objects by the way, but I'm very, very glad.
This is yours. This is like a wooden, and you were actually asking for that for real.
Okay, so this looks like a little wooden dolly that you would find at Lowe's that's got like carpet and uh and wheels on it.
So I'll tell you what. Anybody does anybody want to go first or or you want to just uh Doctor Sha, you want to go first? Either way, what do you think, Ryan? Why don't you go first? I need maybe another second or two to come up with something.
You got it, Dr. Shaw. You got it. Oh, so this is a candle. Yes.
This represents light.
So when I think about the candle, and of course, I cannot. Help but go to Jesus saying, You are the light of the world. Of course. And a city set on a hill that cannot be hidden, nor do men light. A lamp and put it under a bushel, but they put it on a high place so that everybody one can see it and be blessed by it.
And so the candle is quite amazing. But this candle has burned out. That's true. And so many times there are Christians who have Pretty much nothing left to really light. And that's the point where they need to come back to the Lord and see God's fullness in their life.
And let him light your candle. Not only am I going to give him a 10 out of 10 for relating it to Christ Himself, but it also, he also got an application. For the Christian life, that's it. You can't, you see it through two filters, right? You see it through the filter of Christ, filter of the Christian life.
Hit them both in 30 seconds. That's a 10 out of 10. I'm sorry. That looks tougher than that. Yeah, that looks tough.
So, what is this? This is a furniture dolly where you place things that are heavy on top of it and you wheel them around, move them around. Makes things easier to move. It reminds me of the verse where Jesus says, Come to me, all you who are weary and heavy laden, and take my yoke upon you. My yoke is easy, my burden is light.
It's made lighter by this dolly. But also, on the bottom of the dolly, how many wheels do we have? These caster wheels right here. I see four. There's there's four.
Turn your neighbor and say four. Four. There you go. There are four wheels. Feels, sir.
How do we take the yoke of Christ upon us by loving God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength? Oh, I just got to give it to him. He wins it. This dude has done it again. Give it to him.
I don't know. I like the candle button. The candle button. I'm not even going to go. That was a little bit of a stretch.
This is like King Kong versus Godzilla. It's like, at the end of the day, there really isn't a winner. You just wanted to see the, you just wanted to see the result. But King Kong, King Kong. In this situation, he just scorched Godzilla.
No, the other way around. God just scorched. I don't know, man. I thought it was good on both. You definitely had the tougher object.
I'll give you that. It was a tough one. I'm not going to lie. That's true. Stretched a little bit.
Well, gentlemen, very, very good. I'm not going to pick a winner. Obviously, we're all winners here in the eyes of the winner. I'll say. Ryan Watt.
I think congrats, my friend. There you go. That's for you. All right.
So, a quick update and really a quick reminder before we jump into the show. Do you want to remind you guys we are doing a live stream this coming Friday? It's just a couple of days from now from 7 to 9 p.m. Yeah, I don't know how you're going to put it. I'm going to just kind of figure out a way to hide it gracefully.
Yeah, I don't know how you're going to gracefully put that dolly down. We're doing another live stream. It's coming up this Friday, 7 to 9 p.m. It's part of our 24-hour prayer vigil.
So, we want to invite you guys, the listeners, the viewers, to call into the show live. We're going to be live on Facebook, clearviewtodayshow.com. We're going to be live on YouTube. We're going to be live on, I'm sorry, Clearview Church is the Facebook page, but also Clearview Today Show on YouTube. We're going to be live on our church website.
We'll be live in your league.org. We will come and we'll set up right in your live. No, that would be weird. We're not going to be able to do it. But we'll have a phone number right there on the screen.
The point is, we want you guys to call in so we can pray for you. You know, we're not here just to talk at you, we want to minister to you. We want to serve you guys. And, Dr. Shah, that's kind of what the prayer vigil is.
Always been about. That's right. Absolutely. We really want people to call in. And don't be shy.
Don't be afraid. We're not going to ask personal questions. And you can keep them vague, as vague as you want them to be. You can. Change the names, or don't give us the names, and that's perfectly fine.
You don't have to tell us that's my cousin, or my wife, or my son, or daughter. Don't have to say any of that. Just say, pray for this person. That's right. God knows the relationships.
We simply want to have the opportunity to mention actual requests to God. That's why we're telling people to call in. Because sometimes, you know, we pray things like, God, be with that person. Right, right. What do you mean, be with that person?
Exactly. It's like God is. Omnipresent, he's everywhere.
So you're saying be with them in the sense of like assure them, cover them. Show his protection upon them?
Okay, maybe. But how about asking something more. You know, tangible. Yes, of course. Be their strength.
God, be their peace. God, give them your hope. God, heal them. God, provide for them. We want the opportunity to be able to pray such prayers.
And the most important prayer is: God, would you open their eyes that they will be saved? Amen. And again, names are not needed. Just say, pray for a friend of mine. Amen.
That's right. That's right. Pray for a family member. Pray for an enemy of mine. Pray that God will save them.
And you know, we did a couple episodes on this a month or so ago. When you don't, when you're in the middle of a trial or grief or whatever, you might not even know how to pray.
So the Holy Spirit's always there to pray on your behalf, but God also puts people in your life that will pray for you. And we want to be just for those two hours, we want to be those people. That's right. Exactly. Either we believe this or we don't, that God responds to the prayers of his people.
So this is a chance for us to partner with you and to lift those concerns up together as a body of Christ. That's right. A verse of the day today is coming from Galatians 6:7. Do not be deceived. God is not mocked.
For whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. I'm sure there was a time in America, Dr. Shah, I don't remember it, but I'm sure there was a time in America where if you mocked God openly, you know, people are coming after you. You're not going to get away with that socially. But these days, that's not the case.
In fact, the people who mock God, they're brave, they're visionaries. And the culture wars just got a little bit louder on Twitter. I don't know if you guys saw this, but actor, actually, no, I know you saw it because we talked about it earlier, but Kevin Sorbo. Shout out Kevin Sorbo. We've actually met Kevin Sorbo in the NRB.
NRB 2024. I'm sure you remember your great person. Academy, John. Yes. Yeah.
It was actually funny because I didn't know who Kevin Sorbo was. I was ready to go. I don't remember what was wrong with you. It was just John, myself, and Ellie. Yes.
In RB 2024. Dr. Shah, David, and the rest of the team were in Egypt filming.
So we had to split our focus there. But. I had no clue who Kevin Sorbo was. And I was like, I can't remember why, but I was in a bad mood. I was hungry and I was, I had a headache.
I was ready to go. And Ellie was like, Kevin Sorbo's standing over there. We're not leaving without giving him a Clearview Today card. I was like, Ellie, I don't even know who this guy is. And Ryan was like, this is kind of a big deal.
Like, we need to stay. And so Ellie marched right up and was like, hey, I'm sorry to interrupt. Gave him the Clear View Today card. He took a picture with us and everything. Great, great guy.
Anyway, he tweeted. This tweet that has sparked a lot of conversation online regarding Cynthia Arrivo and her portrayal of Jesus in the musical Jesus Christ Superstar. Cynthia Rivo, as you guys might know, has been skyrocketed to fame recently for her portrayal of Elphaba in Wicked. Yeah, she's been a name in the Broadway world for a little while, but in mainstream popularity, she's gained a little more traction because she was not just in this blockbuster movie Wicked, but she was paired with Ariana Grande, who has incredible star power. Yes.
Oh, yeah. Ariana Grande definitely made Cynthia Arivo a more household name. I'm sure she was doing well for herself, but. I'm not gonna lie, like, I saw Wicked and loved it. Yeah, that's great.
I didn't, I didn't realize that Cynthia Arriva was the type of person. Apparently, this is not. Do you want to explain what happened in the Jesus Christ Superstar? Yeah, so Jesus Christ Superstar is a musical that's been around for a while, and it is known for being a sacrilegious portrayal of Jesus. I mean, that's that's common knowledge, it's been around for a while, um, but In this most recent iteration of Jesus Christ Superstar, Cynthia Arrivo is Playing Jesus, which already you've got a woman playing Christ in this musical and The other main role in the show is Judas.
Judas Iscariot has a huge role in Jesus Christ Superstar, and that's being portrayed by Adam Lambert, someone who is openly gay. He is married to a man.
So you have this America's Got Talent, Adam Lambert? American Idol. American Idol is what I'm saying. Adam Labor. Yes.
Okay. Same guy.
Okay. Yeah, yeah. incredibly vocally talented, but you have these two people who are Big proponents of the LGBTQ community. And now they are in the forefront of this musical that is quote unquote about Jesus. I've never seen Jesus Christ Superstar.
Were there gay elements to it before? Like, is there gay elements in the show, or is it just they're bringing that? No, they're just. It's not so much that they're bringing that in, it's just that these stars are vocal personalities in the LGBTQ community, which. Many people in the Broadway world are that they kind of run tandem.
But you have these people who are vocal personalities in the LGBTQ community portraying religious characters in Jesus Christ Superstar. And I'm sure that's on purpose. It's not like, oh, these guys just happen to be the best for the role. It's like, no, we want to make sure that these people who are vocal LGBTQ. To my knowledge, there's never been a, hey, you know, it would be really boundary pushing in Jesus Christ Superstar is if we made a woman Jesus.
I don't think that's, I could be wrong, but I don't think that's ever been done. Gotcha. And here we are in 2024. Ever since 1971, Jesus Christ Superstar has been very. contra Christian beliefs and and it has been Banned in certain parts of the world because it is so disrespectful to believers, Christians everywhere.
And, um, So, I mean, I grew up in India. We heard about it, and it was banned in India. It was not allowed to come to India. Wow. Even though India, and again, maybe today it may be allowed because a lot of things are anti-Christian.
But back in the day, it was not allowed because this was against the faith of the Christians in India. See, I find that, maybe not surprising, but I guess I am kind of surprised because Christianity was such a minority even in those days, right? But at least there was some sort of shared. Empathy, I guess, among yeah, because it was considered to be rude to disrespect anybody's religion. Gotcha.
Even growing up, we never disrespected anybody's religion. We just disagreed. We said, no, that religion is not correct. Here is where you find truth. Truth is in the Bible, in the Old and New Testament.
Truth is in Jesus Christ. He is the way, truth, and life. There's no way to the Father except through Him.
So you can be Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist. whatever. But salvation is found in Christ alone. But we would never make fun of Muslims or. the Quran or Muhammad or make fun of the gods and goddesses.
of the Hindus or or or Buddha or whatever. We would never do any of those kind of things because All that's going to do is stir up hate and start riots, and it's not worth it.
So. They didn't allow Jesus Christ superstar to come to India for that very reason. But Unfortunately, this rock opera has a has new fans in every generation, and here it comes again in the form of this production where this person on stage is depicting Christ. in a less than flattering way. This i it makes it even more so a mockery.
I mean, it was already a mockery of Jesus, of Christianity, but it's even. to a greater extent now. What what makes it'cause I've I have zero Um, experience with the show itself, with the plot, but what makes it a mockery? Is it just that in the show he's not the Son of God? It's all, yes, yeah, it's almost like answering the question: what if Judas was right?
What if Judas was right, and Jesus wasn't really who he said he was, and Jesus wasn't actually the Son of God, and Judas is trying to talk some sense into Jesus, and it twists it in that regard. There's a romance between Jesus and Mary Magdalene in the show, and I mean, it really is a huge departure. It goes very much against our fundamental beliefs, especially about. Jesus being fully God, fully man, Jesus being all-wise, Jesus being aware of what he was doing. He came to give his life for us on the cross.
But here he is conflicted. Here he is. Judas is looked at as more sympathetically than we would. We would say Judas betrayed Jesus. But in Jesus Christ, Superstar, he is the only wise person there.
Judas is the voice of reason. You know, it seemed, and I bet you that with Cynthia Arrivo taking the mantle of Elphaba, that I'm sure that role or that show. Appeal to her because that's the exact premise of Wicked, right? Is that what if the wicked witch, actually, the one that we demonize, actually was wise the whole time? What if she was the hero?
And it seems like Broadway likes to do that. And maybe. On a bigger scope, Hollywood likes. I was gonna say, I think Hollywood likes to do that. What if the person you think that is wrong?
I mean, look at, take something like the Marvel movies. Yeah. Who are the characters that are celebrated? Who are the two characters that have appeared in every phase of the MCU? Loki and the Winter Soldier.
Yeah. Two characters that are traditionally villains. What if they're right? What if they are a little more sympathetic? And it seems like they're very fixated on, not Marvel specifically, but just Hollywood in general, are very.
Fixated on doing this with religious religious figures. I've noticed in music, you know, I know Lady Gaga was not the first to do it, but just in my time, that was the one I see. There's always religious imagery, religious undertones. I'm sure Madonna did stuff like that too back in the day. But I mean, she did, she did with the cross and all that.
Yeah, modern people like Sam Smith.
So I guess my question, Dr. Sha, is what is it about we want to push the boundary so hard in the in terms of religion? I don't really see it in terms of like race or culture or anything else, but it's always we've got to attack religion, we've got to mock religion.
Well, I. I would slightly disagree with you on that. It's not religion, it's Christianity. That's what I said. Which I think you meant.
That's what I meant, yes.
So I think in Europe or in the European world. There is this sense of confidence. Which is I called it. false confidence that comes Like I'm going to challenge that. I'm going to do this and I'm going to challenge it.
See? No lightning bolt. I'm going to say that. I'm going to do this. It's a very Western concept.
When I say Western, I'm not talking about Western as in the Western cowboy breast. I'm talking about the West. It is a concept It's a mindset, it's an attitude that comes from Being in in the European American And I think That's why people feel like I can do this about religion and nothing's going to happen to me.
Sometimes they also do it to be countercultural. They grew up a certain way. They grew up Catholic, or they grew up. Reformed, or they grew up Baptist or Methodist or whatever, and they feel like I am standing up against my rigorous and oppressive Rearing by the church, and the church tried to control me and subjugate me and I'm going to show them. How I'm not scared of you.
Like Ozzy, great musician. You know, people can disagree over that. But his whole premise was based on being this prince of darkness. Yes, that's his name. Right.
Coming from England, right? He grew up in what, Birmingham? I think so, something like that. Yeah, Birmingham, same place where J.R.R. Tolkien wrote, use the places there.
To write his Lord of the Rings. Yep. I mean, there's a tower there in Birmingham. Yeah, there's a tower in Birmingham, which was his inspiration for the tower. Two towers.
Yes. Wow. Yes. And and when we drove into Birmingham from Gloucester at night, one of my friends who who was there in Birmingham for his PhD said, Look, look out there, see? That was the inspiration for Tolkien.
I was like, really? I didn't know that. I would have. He said there are many places in Birmingham City you can go around and see. And they will help you realize they're coming from Lord of the Rings.
That's real life. Or they were used in Lord of the Rings. Right. I'm like, man, next time I come, I'm going to do that. I know.
That's a great trip I would like to take one day.
So the reason I share that is because. Ozzy Osborne also Grew up in the same city. But I bet he saw all this stuff. that has been Christianized or or giving them that Christian Worldview or Christian upbringing as like, Oh, I'm going to show you and I'm going to be the Prince of Darkness and I'll show you all the dark side. And in the process, I'll send a lot of records and I'll be that guy that everybody wants to see, whether you like my music or not.
I am cool. What is it that causes people to do that? to thumb their noses towards The very foundation on which they're standing. The very source of their blessings, their enlightenment, their growth, their. There confidence is the very thing they want to blow up.
But they feel They are different. They're countercultural. They are the renegade. They are out front. And they're going against the grain.
I'm using all the descriptions as possible. But that's what people do in the West. And they've done that to Christianity. Do you think that because a lot of what we're seeing is coming from Hollywood, Nashville, like music, Broadway, these glitter glamour? Even in Europe, it comes a lot from Europe.
Right. And so there's this sense of we can do this because we've been given a platform by powerful people. Do you think that. It's too far gone, or do you think there can still be revival in like the entertainment industry? Oh, yes.
And I think it's happening. I think Kevin Sorbo is the one who spoke out against this. Many, many people are not happy with what happened when she did that and this Jesus Christ superstar type portrayals that purposely beat up on Christianity because it's mocking our faith, it's mocking us. And You know, that's like bullying. Yeah.
That's like bullying. And Here's what I tell to people like this. Try that against Islam. Yeah, true. You know, in France, they tried that with that cartoonist.
Try that with them. Yeah. Yeah, they're not making any musicals that are against Islam. Yeah, was it Charlie Hepdo? I don't know.
Yeah. Because, you know, they do that and they get bombed. Yeah. And so that.
Sort of that sort of leads to another question. Like, it's a lot of people will pretend that it's out of respect for Islam, but really it's out of fear. Out of fear. And when they do try it, they've tried it here and there at times, have a cartoon competition to portray Muhammad a certain way. And next thing you know, they're bullets flying.
Oh, I remember. I remember when I remember when South Park did it.
South Park was making fun of Family Guy. There was this big feud between all these different primetime animations, and there was a big thing. I watched it. Like, I was in middle school, high school. I should not have been watching it, but I did.
But it was a big thing, and it was like they're going to air. An image of Muhammad. It was a big, big, big thing. And they Comedy Central got letters from Islamic extremists. And they said, if you do that, I promise you, we will retaliate.
You better not do it.
South Park was going to go ahead with it. Comedy Central pulled it. And so there was a big stink about it. And I think, to my knowledge, they never actually aired Muhammad. They aired the episode and they like censored him out, but they made it a big thing.
Yeah. To me, whether somebody want to blow up or shoot up or whatever, just don't do it. It's not worth it. What is the purpose behind it? Yeah.
You're not going to win that person. You're just mocking that person. But unfortunately, when it comes to Christianity, we as Christians go, oh, you have the right to do it. You have the right to talk junk about Jesus. And Christians, it is what it is.
And maybe that's because we take the high road as like that's not going to hurt us because we serve a living Savior. We serve the God of the universe. We don't. We're not scared of you. We believe the Bible is the word of God.
And it will outlast you. In fact, you will be subject to the word of God, and whatever it says about the judgment. That is coming.
So do what you need to do. Yeah. It's not going to help you. One of the things that I have noticed about, and I've kind of grown up loving. Theater and Broadway and musicals and things of that nature, but you often find people in the Broadway community.
And like I said, they sort of run tangentially toward one another, the LGBTQ community, who their big desire is: I want to be different. I want to stand out. I want to be unusual. I want to be separated from the herd, from the norm. But in doing that, they just sort of join this echo chamber of saying the same things and doing the same thing over and over again, pushing the same boundaries.
And what I appreciate so much about you, Dr. Shaw, and the culture that you created here at Clearview is that you've given a place for people to engage in the arts, but Do it in a way that points people back to the Creator who says, you are unique. You are special. And let me tell you why, because you are seen and loved and known by a holy God. That's right.
That's right. And that's what we want to do is we don't want to reject the arts. We want to embrace the arts, but use it to the glory of God. We want to definitely be creative. We want to push the limits.
We want to push the envelope, but not by doing something just to aggravate you weak people because you're not going to fight back.
So I'm going to make fun of you, call myself a prince of darkness and do weird, wacky things with the cross. And people love me for this. People love me.
Well, The fact that you even have the equipment and the lights and the technology and the ability and the training and all that you have. is because of Christianity. Yeah, that's true. Christianity radically transformed the the European culture, which in turn gave us a transformed American culture. This is coming from Christianity.
So blowing up the very foundation of who we are. and what made us who we are, just so you can get a few likes, It's weak. Yeah. Right. And I would go further to say.
God is laughing at you. Good point. You know, that goes back to our verse of the day: don't be deceived. God is not mocked. God is not mocked.
There are several times a psalmist talks about this. If I may read a couple of these verses, one time we find it in Psalm chapter 2, verse 1, it says, Why do the nations rage? and the people plot a vain thing. The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and against His anointed, saying, Let us break their bonds in pieces, and cast away their cords from us. He who sits in the heavens shall laugh, the Lord shall hold them in derision.
Yeah, God's gonna have the last laugh. He's gonna laugh at you. You say, Well, God loves me, and the God I believe in does not do that. He actually appreciates my weird, wacky, sensual sense of humor. No.
He is laughing at you because in his holiness, he sees you as being belligerent and rejecting.
Now, he loves you. Enough to give his only son. But if you do what you're doing. He will laugh at you on the other side. Oh, yeah.
Position, the God I believe in.
Okay. The God you believe in could be a bag of potato chips, but that doesn't make it. We have our own personal gods with our own personal standards of morality and justice. There's another passage here in Psalm 37 this time. It talks about: do not fret because of evildoers, nor be envious of the workers of iniquity, for they shall soon be cut down like the grass and wither as the green herb.
Trust in the Lord and do good, dwell in the land, and feed on his faithfulness. On and on it goes. And then it says in verse 12. The wicked plots against the just and gnashes at him with his teeth. The Lord laughs at him, for he sees That his day is coming.
The wicked have drawn the sword and have bent their bow to cast down the poor and needy, to slay those who are of upright conduct their swords shall enter their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.
So The point is, God's going to laugh at you. Because he knows what's coming for you. That's right. Any word of encouragement? Let's say for some reason, Cynthia Arriva, wherever she is, let's say she's listening to the show right now, or maybe even just people who work in that industry, people who work in that, or have been guilty of that before.
What would you say to them? I would say to her, and again, I don't know her upbringing, whether she grew up in a. Christian background, and she's rebelling against that, or she is listening to people who are saying, Hey, do this, and this will revive your career. You will get, you know, you will have a lot of people who will like you because you're different. I don't know who you're listening to, but behind all of them is the enemy, is the devil.
And he's not helping you one bit. He's trying to give you the world. But in the process, he's taking your soul. Here's my suggestion to you. Why don't you perform on the bigger stage, which is.
going to last forever. Amen. The eternity stage, which is In heaven forever and ever. And for that, you need to come to Christ and choose to serve Him, glorify Him. He will give you talents.
He will give you a vision and a goal that no agent and no corporation and no executives can ever ever satisfy. Come to Christ. Serve him. Hey no.
So good, so encouraging. Guys, make sure you join us tomorrow, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can subscribe to our show on any platform where you get your podcasts, Spotify, iTunes, anywhere you get your podcasts from.
And you can always support us financially at Abadanshah.com forward slash give. John, what are we closing with today? Definitely want to plug Dr. Shah's new podcast, The Lighthouse. Those are weekly devotions with Dr.
Abadan Shah. New episodes drop every single Saturday morning. You can get them on Apple, Spotify, iTunes, anywhere that podcasts are streamed or consumed. Also, want to remind you guys to follow Dr. Shah on Prey.com.
We just passed 32,000 followers. Nice. It's trickling down a little bit, but we want you guys to go on over if you have not done so already to Pray.com. The app is absolutely free. And if you're listening on Prey right now, just go ahead and follow Dr.
Abadan Shah. You'll have access to all of his exclusive content, weekly emails, and all of our weekly shows and all of our exclusive shows that are only on Prey.com. That's right. We love you guys. We'll see you.
tomorrow on Clear Vee Today.
