Tatum's Test (Hour 1)

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Just you wait. AutoTrader. Live from the police show yet not overly ostentatious studios of the Infinity Sports Network. This is a Wednesday edition of the Zach Gelb show as we come to you live from our 345 Hudson Street studio sitting on top of the 10th floor broadcasting to you live across all of our great local Infinity Sports Network affiliates. Sirius XM channel 158.

The free Odyssey app and of course streaming live on YouTube. YouTube.com is where you can find us. 855-212-4227 is the number to jump on in 855-212-4227. You could always get at me on Instagram where I'm straight flexing or via the good old cesspool of X, Twitter, at Zach Gelb.

That's Z-A-C-H-G-E-L-B. We will do a college football fix today and that will be coming your way from North Carolina as the legendary college football coach Mac Brown will stop by. In the four o'clock hour we of course will do a Winkler Wednesday and we will also have Johnny Lazarus stop by and he is a great NHL analyst and he'll be joining us in studio.

He's a top five hockey podcast in the U.S. and I know Johnny very well so he'll be stopping by in the studio with us. And of course we will recap Game 1 of the Easter Conference Finals and we will get you set for Game 1 of the Western Conference Finals with Antonio Daniels, Sirius XM, NBA radio. But I need to start the show off today talking about the disappointing game last night between the Boston Celtics and the Indiana Pacers. And like I said, disappointing. And I got Stuart Kovacs and Ryan Botcher here with me all the way up until 6 p.m. Eastern and 3 p.m. Pacific. And Botcher's like, huh, disappointing?

What is this dope talking about? Because I'm disappointed with what I saw last night. I'm disappointed that the Indiana Pacers snatched the feet from the jaws of victory in a game that they had won and they couldn't inbound the basketball and then they didn't foul when they were up by three in less than 10 seconds.

Jaylen Brown hits a miraculous three, the game goes to overtime and the Celtics win. And I'm also disappointed in Jason Tatum. That was an empty stat line from Jason Tatum last night in regulation. I know he finished with 30-something points, he had 10 points in overtime, so at least he finally did elect to wake up in the extra session, but in that fourth quarter he was dreadful. And I know Derek White's a good player, but how passive was Jason Tatum in the fourth quarter basically begging Derek White to will that team to victory? And begging Jaylen Brown to will that team to victory?

Jason Tatum's gotta be better. You can't have four points in the fourth quarter. Because let me be clear about this, I don't think the Pacers got a shot to win this series.

I don't. I picked the Celtics in five going in. But the goal for the Celtics this year isn't just to get to the NBA Finals, it's to win the damn championship. And you could sleep in the fourth quarter of your Jason Tatum against the Indiana Pacers, but you can't be asleep against the winner of the Dallas Mavericks Minnesota Timberwolves series. So that's my feeling after game one. I'm disappointed. Because I thought in game one, with the way that it was playing out, that the Pacers were going to give us a series.

And I was just on 560WQAM, I was doing my weekly spot with Hochman and Crowder. And Channing Crowder goes to me, well, with the way the Pacers played, doesn't that give you a little bit more confidence in the Indiana Pacers moving forward? And I actually think about it the different, the other way. The complete opposite. You played that good of a game. You shot 50 something percent from the field.

You were surgical on the court. You did everything you could for the majority of the game up until the final 10 seconds. Even after surviving a slow start right out of the gate to win that game. And you walk away with an L. So now like the Boston Celtics, who have been terrible, putrid in game twos in this NBA postseason.

Right? They lost to the Heat in game two on their home court. Heat shot the lights out of the building. And then in game two up against the Cavs, they dropped that game as well. So they're 0-2 in game twos this year. But they didn't play good the Celtics in game one. So I would think game one is kind of like the coffee that the Celtics needed. And I would anticipate a much cleaner and better effort in game two for the Boston Celtics. And if you're trying to make a case for Indiana to be competitive, if you're trying to make a case for Indiana to win this series, they got to split one of these first two games.

And when you get that close to securing a victory in game one, but yet so far, why should I double down and believe in you in game two to get the job won when you failed to do so in game one? The Pacers should have won that game. Think of any Boston Celtics fan that you know. You know, my uncle's brother, David, who I'm very close with, he's texting me with 30 seconds left, 40 seconds left.

The fat lady's singing, this game is over. Dave Portnoy of Barstool Sports, he was recording an instant reaction video talking about his frustration with the Celtics and he looks up at the TV and he goes, hold on, there's a turnover. And then we know that it led to the Jalen Brown 3. So the Celtic fan last night, and deservedly so, was ready to pounce.

And I'll be honest with you guys, I had tweets ready to go. I was waiting for the final horn and my fat thumb was going to press send. I was ready to crush, crush Jason Tatum for that lethargic fourth quarter performance, because I expect better from the Boston Celtics. And they found a way to win the game. Sometimes, and they're a good team, I'm not taking anything away from them, but sometimes in the postseason you'd rather be lucky than good. And last night the Celtics were more lucky than good. And you knew once that game got into overtime. It's kind of like in hockey, when you're up 3-2, you look like you're going to win, the other team pulls the goalie and they score with 10 seconds left. It's not always the case that the team that scores late in regulation wins in overtime, but the momentum carries over and you get that feeling like the team that allowed the goal is going to end up losing the game. And once Boston found a way where Brown hits the miraculous three in the corner, and then on the other end, I'll give credit to Jason Tatum, he made the stop. He played good defense, made the stop. Once that horn sounded and you knew they were going into overtime, I thought the Celtics were going to win the game.

I did! Because Indiana, as you've seen, to beat this Celtics team, they're going to have to play like almost perfect basketball. You can't really shoot that much better. And we know what Indiana could do on the offensive end. You can't shoot that much better than what Indiana did last night.

Indiana, maybe outside of the first few minutes, could not have played a better game. And they threw it right in the paper shredder. They had like the perfect document.

You know, like when you're growing up as a kid and you have to write like one of the stupid 12-page papers? They finished the paper. They had the perfect piece of paper.

And then, for whatever reason, they went right to the paper shredder and threw their paper right in the shredder and it poofed right into the paper shredder. And it was over with and done with. They had the game won. So I'm not going to sit here today and I'm not going to pretend like the Celtics played this great game and Jason Tatum had some heroic performance. You could tell which talk show host today, when they talk about this game, watch the games and which talk show host just read a stat line. Because if you read the stat line last night for Jason Tatum in Game 1, you're like, hold on. Who's this bloviating jackass on the radio right now that is shredding Jason Tatum for having 36 points and 12 rebounds?

Right? Like, if I tell you, just with no context, Jason Tatum had 36 points and 12 rebounds, you're saying, that's a pretty damn good game. But in the fourth quarter, if the Pacers didn't have that boneheaded turnover, and if they could have fouled up three, which I guess Carlisle instructed to do and then because of the positioning of Siakam, he elected to pull off. And, you know, I thought they should have fouled there.

I know everyone's crushing them. But I will say this, I don't think he could have played much better defense. Yes, you should have fouled, but if it then turns into a four-point play, you know, it was really good defense. Tip your cap to Jalen Brown for making the shot. But if that ball bounces off the rim and doesn't get a fortuitous bounce and go in, or if that inbounds pass was made and executed, or if the Pacers did foul and let's say the Celtics get two free throws and they don't end up winning that game, what's everyone saying today? Everyone is saying, where was Tatum?

Where was Waldo in that fourth quarter? Four points, four points, two made shots in the fourth quarter. And this is why I'm tough on Tatum today. Even though, to his credit, and Jalen Brown said it after the game, hey, Tatum finally woke up. You know, that's a good job by Jalen Brown.

Let me play that for you real quickly. This was Jalen Brown on ESPN to Lisa Salters, who I like Lisa Salters. I do. I think she does a very good job.

Mike Breen does a very good job. I'll get to Doris Burke and J.J. Reddick coming up in about ten minutes. Jeez, Louise. Those two in a broadcast booth for an Easter conference finals game. What are we doing? I felt like I was watching game three of the regular season. I thought we were watching, no disrespect to Ice Cube, the big three league. That did not feel like an Easter conference finals game with Doris Burke and J.J. Reddick in the booth.

No energy whatsoever, but I'll get into them in a few minutes. But this is Jalen Brown talking to Lisa Salters after the game on what was different in overtime. What was the difference in overtime? I think we just made some momentum plays.

J.T. finally woke up, made some baskets, and we was able to make some plays towards the end. But we got to be better, to be honest. But I'll take the win tonight.

Hundred percent dead on. They need to be better. And you don't usually hear a player, and I get Brown is a star in terms of his contract. He's a very good player. He's not a top ten player in the league.

He's not elite. And he's a big leader on that team, but we all know the best player on that team is Jason Tatum. But Brown needed to say that last night. We got to play better, and J.T.

finally woke up in overtime. Because if that game doesn't get to overtime, he's got 26 points. And you only have four in the fourth quarter. So the Celtics need to be better.

Tatum needs to be better. But with all that being said, Celtics won the game. And when they win that game, I think they're going to come out with the big effort in Game 2, and I believe they're going to go back to Indiana up 2-0.

They'll probably dog one of those games in Indiana split. And I believe my prediction that I made before the series started yesterday of Celtics in five will end up being true. I believe the Celtics are going to win this series, and I don't think they're going to take more than five games. Like if they would have lost last night, then you could see this one going six. But winning a game that they had no business in winning swings the momentum that was already in favor of the Celtics a big way into the Boston Celtics.

But they have to be better. Because in the Eastern Conference, let's call it what it is. Miami was hurt. Bucks were hurt. Knicks, they were playing well.

They got hurt. And they were hurt going in even with Julius Randle. And the Pacers I think have maxed out. The Pacers, their ceiling I think is just getting to this round. I don't think the Pacers could win four more games to get to the NBA Finals. The Celtics have not been tested yet this postseason. And I don't really give a rat's ass what happened in the East, and I said this from the start, because it was a foregone conclusion when you entered the postseason. And especially after the first round, you knew the Celtics were going to get to the NBA Finals this year.

But it's not about just getting there. You need, need, need, need to win a championship. And if you give that up and down, at times looking lost offensively effort in the fourth quarter against Luca and Kyrie, or against Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberwolves, you will lose in the NBA Finals. So you could survive last night, but you can't replicate what you did last night, because then you were putting your hand on the stove.

And sometimes the stove isn't on when you put your hand on the stove. But one day it's going to be on, and then like in previous years, you're going to get burned. It is the Zach Gelb show on the Infinity Sports Network, 855212, 4227. What's your reaction from Game 1 of the Easter Conference Finals? As you can tell, mine is disappointment. Disappointment with the Celtics' fourth quarter effort, and also disappointment with Indiana losing a game that they should have won. When we return, it looks like the NBA is going to be off of TNT after next season, which stinks, and talking about stinking, that ESPN booth last night. Yikes. We'll react to that next. You're listening to the Zach Gelb show.

Alrighty, this is Zach Gelb show on the Infinity Sports Network. This is the unfortunate news. It appears, this has been long thought. It seemed like it was a foregone conclusion.

There was a little bit of like fake hope, I think, and fake optimism. There was a miniscule chance, but it does appear that next season is going to be the final season of Inside the NBA on TNT. As it looks like TNT is going to lose their NBA rights, and you're going to have them, I believe they're going, it's like ESPN, NBC, and I think Amazon is involved in it, but that just stinks. And here's why it stinks. It stinks because the NBA regular season, because of that spineless silver, the commissioner, is so boring. Like, look at the teams that actually are good regular season teams. You look at a team like Indiana. You look at a team like the Knicks. It's because they play.

They try hard. But there's so many teams that should be a lot better in the NBA regular season that aren't because of all this load management crap. And look, look how many guys miss games and they're still hurt for the postseason. And then look at the guys that do play and they get hurt for the postseason.

So it's kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't. But a lot of times when they have those double headers during the week on TNT, the games actually, I don't even give a rat's ass about them. Like, there's a lot of times when I do the 6 to 10 p.m. Eastern time shift here where I'd watch the first game, then I'd go home, and I'd just flip on inside the NBA on TNT for the commentary because Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, Ernie Johnson, and Shaq, they're an institution when it comes to covering the NBA, especially Kenny and Charles and EJ, and then they added Shaq all those years ago.

But it's just so unfortunate. I don't know what NBC is going to do. You know, NBC, they usually do a good job when it comes to broadcast, but not having that booth creates a lot of questions. You know, I'm sure they could go get Shaq and Charles and Kenny, but Ernie said that he's staying with Turner.

So, like, I don't know who you're going to end up poaching and who you're going to end up taking. Like, I always thought Adam Lefkoe was going to replace Ernie Johnson whenever Ernie elected to hang it up. So, does Lefkoe, who's friendly with Shaq, and I think they do a podcast together, does he get poached by NBC? Does NBC have someone in mind?

Like, I don't know. So, it just stinks, because next year is going to be an end of an era, assuming that it goes the way that it's being reported today, and that it's been going the last few weeks, and just the general sentiment around it that we're going to lose inside the NBA. But it's rare where, because like a lot of times, and I do think there's some self-righteousness from people in our business, there's a shock, I think sometimes people make a bigger deal than what we actually need to make out of the announcers. But for a sport like the NBA, where the regular season product that a lot of times is like dog crap, having a great studio show that is opinionated, that is fun, you know, a lot of times in the regular season when we're talking about the NBA, it's moments from inside the NBA.

And that's just a fact. So, you need to have a strong studio with the NBA coverage. Like NFL, if you have a crappy studio show, you'll survive, because every game means something. And the NBA, hate to break it to you, and I don't think I'm breaking news to everybody, to anybody, but every game clearly does not matter.

So, that stinks. We'll see how they end up ironing out the details of what NBC is going to do and how many people are going to poach from Turner. And you also start to wonder, like Kevin Harlan, who I love. Kevin Harlan is also an employee at CBS, here at Westwood One, too.

Or, you know, will CBS allow him to go to NBC and start calling games? Like, Kevin Harlan. You know, Kevin Harlan and Ian Eagle, I think pound for pound today, are the two most well-rounded broadcasters that we have. They both do football. They both do basketball. Like, they are tremendous.

They absolutely are. But that stinks that it seems like inside the NBA will be no more after this year. Now, I got to get to ESPN's booth last night.

And this is not the first time I've said this. Mike Breen is great. You tune in, and I know we missed a few calls last night, but probably because his back is hurting him from all the carrying he has to do with the other two people he's working with in this series.

And it's probably frustrating him, and that's why you get a few Breen slip-ups, I would imagine. But Mike Breen is a crème de la crème broadcaster. Like, there's certain voices that you tune in and you know it's a big game. Even if it's not a big game, it just feels like a big game.

You know, before the whole Amazon thing, whenever you heard Al Michaels, you felt like it was a big game. Jim Nantz, you tune in, big game. Kevin Harlan, big game feel. Ian Eagle, big game feel. Joe Buck, big game feel.

Mike Breen, big game feel. When you tune in, there's certain broadcasters, even if it's game 22 of the regular season, the broadcast just feels bigger when those guys are broadcasting it. But what ESPN is putting out in their booth right now is disgraceful.

It's not a number one booth, and I get it by design. It was supposed to be Doc Rivers, and I read the Andrew Marchand article where Andrew Marchand said Jeff Van Gundy didn't get kicked out because he was critical of the officiating. People said that ESPN sources, I guess, or league sources told Andrew Marchand they were fearful that Van Gundy was going to return to coaching. Now, hold on.

That's why that is a load of crap. It's because Spineless Silver, the commissioner, has no backbone, and he was annoyed, probably, guaranteed, that Jeff Van Gundy was often very critical of the officials. So you're telling me you had to push Van Gundy out because you were apprehensive about him going back to coaching, and then the guy you hire is Doc Rivers, who was going to get back into coaching on the first team that offered him a job.

And guess what? That happened midway through the season. And you replace him now with JJ Redick, who in all likelihood is going to be the next coach of the Lakers. And Doris Burke is a good broadcaster. JJ Redick, even though I don't like him, he could be a good broadcaster, but they are not Eastern Conference final, eventually NBA final material.

Breen is. But can Doris Burke and JJ Redick, can we give them a little coffee? You know, I heard Perloff this morning say that Jason Tatum needs smelling salts. How about the broadcasting booth gets a little smelling salts?

There was no energy. You would have thought that was game 12 of the regular season. And how many times is Breen just sitting there setting up Burke or Redick to actually speak? You are a broadcaster. When you don't speak, that is a problem. And there's so many stretches where Breen is just talking and talking and talking, lets the game breathe, opens and sets up his color analyst, and they say nothing.

Absolutely nothing. So that booth, hey everyone slammed the Booger McFarland, Jason Witten, and Joe Tessitore booth. That was bad. If it wasn't for Breen, this may be one of the worst booths I've ever heard. That's how bad it is. And JJ Redick, can you smile?

Can you be a little happy? His post-game press conferences when he becomes the head coach of the Lakers, when some reporter, and sometimes these reporters they think they're know-it-alls, right? And they try to talk the actual X's and O's of the game which drives me bonkers. They're going to ask him a question that he doesn't like, and it's going to, you thought Mike Malone was bad after losing.

But just wait until JJ Redick. So that booth is really bad. And I'm not even saying Van Gundy and Mark Jackson was like the greatest booth of all time. Don't get me wrong, it was a really good booth. But people think it's like the greatest booth of all time. It wasn't.

But it was entertaining, it was fun, and it was a good listen. And when you tuned in, it felt like there were actually big games for the big games that they were calling. With Breen and Doris Burke and also JJ Redick, they're like the Phoenix Suns.

They are. Like Mike Breen is a great player. We all know that, he's a great announcer. But like Doris Burke and JJ Redick are like Bradley Beal in that booth with that big three. That's how bad it was.

And I sent that tweet out last night, I can't tell you how many people in the media world then DM'd me. And we're like, I'm not going to say it publicly, but you're spot on with this booth. This booth is atrocious.

I got at least like six or seven DMs from broadcasters telling me how bad that booth was and how tough of a listen that was last night. All right, it's time for a college football fix. We'll do that when we come on back.

Legendary college football coach, Mac Brown, who's of course the head coach at UNC. He'll join us on the other side. But first up with the latest Infinity Sports Network update.

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Minimum $10 per order. Additional terms apply. You're listening to the Zach Gelb Show. We miss college football. Milrose stands in. He throws into the end zone. It's caught by Isaiah Bond in the corner of the end zone. Touchdown Alabama.

We can't wait for the 2024 season. Hands it off to Edwards who will bounce it outside. Donovan 40. Donovan 30. Donovan Edwards is in the clear. His second touchdown run of the ball game.

This time for 46 yards and Michigan has taken a 13 to 3 lead on the second touchdown of the night from the man who was not tripping. And we're counting down the days to kick off. Are we there yet? No. Are we there yet? I said no. Are we there yet?

What's wrong with your ears? Here is your college football fix only on the Zach Gelb Show. Alrighty, this is College Football Fix right here on the Zach Gelb Show on the Infinity Sports Network. We are 99 days away until UNC kicks off its season in Minnesota up against the Golden Gophers. And now joining us is a legendary college football coach. He is the head coach of the Tar Heels.

And that of course is Coach Mac Brown. Coach, appreciate the time as always. Thanks so much for doing it and how are you? Zach, I'm doing great.

Thanks for having me on and those 99 days are going to go fast. Yeah, they'll be here before you know it and it also helps when you have a running back like Omarion Hampton and what he was able to do a year ago over 1,500 rushing yards and 15 rushing touchdowns. Just how do you take a look back at his special season from a year ago? Zach, he's one of the best players in the country and we've had some great running backs here and at Texas. He's as good as any of them. He's big. He's strong. He runs 4-4.

He's 220. He's got tremendous hands. He's very unselfish.

He's a guy with our modern day transfer portal that had opportunities to go to a lot of different places for a lot of money. And he's very unselfish. He decided to stay here because he knows we've got a chance to run the ball well. And as I've learned, Zach, great running backs make those offensive linemen look better so they can help them as well. As good as any running back you coach, you coach Ricky Williams in 1998 with his special season. That's how good Omarion Hampton can continue to be?

He can. He can be that good because Ricky was a great player, obviously. Heisman Trophy winner, one of the best ever. You've got so many guys like Cedric Benson and Jamal Charles and Selvin Young and some great ones that we had here as well with Natron Means and Randy Jordan. But this guy's in that group and it's hard when you have different eras to say this one's better than that one.

But Zach, this guy's got it all. So you talked about the NIL and when you have a player that has that much success, you know, a lot of people are going to try to drive them away from your program. Was that a legitimate fear this offseason that you were going to lose him or did you kind of think everything was going to play out in your favor?

Well, it wasn't a fear because of who he is. What we've tried to do, Zach, is just change our recruiting, our strategy. And we've tried to get guys that want to be here, guys that if they play really well, if they're not going to take money coming in, then after two years, they're not going to take money because they play well. Who wants to be here and who's going to stay here? And we've actually only lost one player that was bought off our campus.

So that's pretty good. But we're having to look at a smaller group. Our pool is much smaller academically and financially. But also who wants to be here?

And that Cayman Rucker is another one, Power Echols. There were a number of guys on our team that could have gone a lot of other places and they just decided that this is where they came to school and this is where they want to stay. How difficult of an adjustment has it been with NIL?

Because with someone like yourself that has been around the game for a long time, you're used to doing things a certain way. And obviously the landscape is changing. I think it's for the better.

But you would also want a little bit more just controlled kinds of chaos, as I would like to say with all the NIL stuff. Yeah, Zach, you can sit around and gripe about what's wrong with it or you can be one of those guys that handles it, changes the narrative with it, and then tries to make it better for college football because it is good that the young guys are getting paid. I said on the podcast the other day that guys didn't ask for this. Somebody said, well, they've been getting paid for years.

Well, they have. It was cheating then. It was different.

But not everybody is that way. The large majority of the kids didn't ask for money. They didn't ask for money before.

Just a few great ones were getting paid. And now most of the kids on your team, they'd like to be treated like everybody else in college football, but they're not walking around like a lot of people think. Say, give me a new card.

If you don't do this, I'm leaving. And that's not the way our team works at all. Most of our guys just say, Coach, treat me fair.

Whatever the rules are, I know you didn't make them. And I've told them, we've been behind the NIL, so be patient with me and we'll raise some money. But you've got a narrative here with 28 sports and you've got a narrative for years that you told your boosters, top supporters, don't pay kids. Now you're saying, we need to pay them. And then you said, don't have agents because North Carolina got in trouble for some agents before.

Now we're saying they've all got agents. So it's a learning process for all of us. But Zach, one of the things that a lot of my buddies and I talked about that are older in this business, when COVID came, we can either gripe about COVID because we've never had COVID before, or we can learn how to coach with COVID.

Well, you can either gripe about the transfer portal at NIL. It is what it is. There are some things that need to be changed, but until they're changed, we've all got to figure out a narrative to give us a chance to be the best we can be. The great Mac Brown is here with us. I'm a Temple Owl coach, so I know your dear friend, Kevin Nagande, while I also know your new defensive coordinator, the Minister of Mayhem, I believe they call him, and Jeff Collins. What do you think Jeff could bring to the defense that you guys haven't had the last few years? Jeff brings a lot of experience as a head coach at two different places. He brings experience as a top 25 defensive coordinator at Mississippi State and Florida. He's put a lot of guys in the league, which is what recruits want to hear because they want to be able to be taught to get there. And the thing that I saw this spring, Zach, he's got so much energy. He exudes his energy.

He's very inclusive. The whole defensive staff and the team's bought in. But if a receiver makes a great catch, he will sprint across the field and chest bump the receiver and say, that's what we need, man. Challenge us. Challenge us to make us better. And the kids have really enjoyed him being here, and they're fired up about playing for him next fall. You may want to get him a scooter, coach, because I'm a little afraid if Jeff Collins is running across the practice field, you're going to have an Achilles injury with your defensive coordinator.

I don't think there's any question that we told him he needs to slow down. That's awesome. Let me get to your quarterback battle. How's it been going?

It's good. We've got really three older quarterbacks now with Jacoby Criswell coming in. He's coming back from Arkansas, but you've got Connor Harold who's played some for us that runs 4-4. He has really made some great plays since he's been here.

Just hadn't got a lot of experience. And then you've got just the opposite, Max Johnson that was at LSU and Texas A&M that comes in with over 900 passes in the SEC. And he's played on the big stage a lot. So those guys have a real healthy competition right now. They were going back and forth in the spring. A lot of people say, well, they're not going to pick one until the fall because they want both of them to stay and all that. This is the legitimate competition that they could both play today.

We're really lucky that we've got two that can play. So we're going to watch them through the summer workouts. We'll watch them in preseason and then just figure out who gives us the best chance to win. How do you know when it's time to announce a starter?

Because like I said, it seems like this is going to go right down to the wire. Yeah, usually in my experience, unless you know, if you know, go ahead and announce it because they know if you know. But if you don't know, like now or like it was with Jacoby Criswell and Drake May, like it was with Sam Howell, the other couple of guys that we had here, we weren't sure because they were young. So we let them go through the summer. They compete all summer and it's amazing how your kids will tell you what they think.

And you get six or eight of the older guys at the end of the summer and you say, what did you see? Because we can't watch them throw in the summer. And they'll say, coach, it's not close. It was Colt, McCoy and Jevin Sneet. I thought Jevin was leading coming out of spring practice. They get back and they said, Colt took over, you'll see.

And they said the same thing with Drake a couple of years ago. So that's why I like Zach having all three of those guys really lead all summer. They have to compete all summer.

They work all summer. But then you get a great report from your older players that you really trusted in the fall. Coach Mac Brown, what are the Patriots getting in your old quarterback in Drake May who was the third overall pick a month ago? They're getting a guy with freakish talent. He can run better than people think he can. He's got length. He's nearly 6'5". He's about 230.

He's very accurate. He's a gym rat. He's smart. He competes at the highest level. He's had two older brothers win the national championships and they throw that ring in his face. And Zach, he wants to get one so he's competing hard to get it.

But he also is a guy with the it factor. When he walks in the room, everybody stops and turns and looks at him. And they know when he's there.

He has that presence and he'll have that same presence in the locker room for the Patriots. With NIL, he and Sam Howell both made more money than the other kids on the team. And that bothered them some. But in each of those two cases, they didn't have a deal with a corporation unless they included some other players. And the team really appreciates that.

So they're total team guys. But I think Drake is a guy that will end up being one of the best ever player. Coach, a lot of people are wondering what the future of the ACC is going to be. There's been a lot of changes in college football. You being around as long as you have, just what do you think this will eventually go to down the road and what college football will look like?

Are we going to just one Super League, you think? Zach, it's a great question. I was at Texas when we were hours away, I thought, from going to the Pac-12. We had talked about recruiting areas. We had talked about changes in recruiting. We talked about scheduling. How would you fly out of Washington and Washington State?

We went through all of that and then it came down to we got Longhorn Network and everything went away in an hour. So what I've learned is that I sit like you do. I sit and listen.

I watch. But I know I've got to beat Minnesota in the opener. So the biggest thing for us is to coach our team. I would think that we're headed toward an NFL model in everything we're doing and that we don't have a model.

And we dropped amateurism and we really didn't know what we were doing because we've got so many things going on with our guidelines. Well, with the settlement that's coming up, that's more money that universities are going to have to have. With cost of attendance, that's more pressure on athletics directors.

With the academic stipend, that's more pressure on athletic directors. So this money has got to come from somewhere. So either you get the ones that can produce that revenue that all play at the top and everybody else kind of settles in their own area and levels. Or somebody's got to figure out how everybody's going to get paid because the players now are going to get paid. So you have to cut sports or you have to cut personnel.

Something has to give and everybody has to seek better revenue. So I think that's where we're headed and I think we're going to see money go back in through the universities for NIL at some point. I think we're going to see salary caps at some point. Title IX is still a factor that the NFL doesn't have to deal with.

But I do think at some point we may end up seeing four divisions like an NFL group and the ones with the most money are going to be playing at the highest level and everybody else is going to go back and play for fun. Last thing I'll ask you, I believe if I'm right on this, your latest contract extension is through 2027. How much longer do you plan on being on the sideline and being a coach in college football? Zach, I think I read it this morning.

I think it's 28. But you get an extra extension? I did get another year extension this year and I did ask Coach Bowden and Coach Paterno were on a Nike trip with me.

One of them was 84 and the other one was 85. I said, what are you all doing? We love this. We love the kids.

We're having fun. So at Texas, I was tired after 30 years as a head coach and I started thinking about how do you retire? What do you do?

I did that. I enjoyed TV. But I was born to coach and I'm enjoying this. I'm loving coaching.

So it's also more challenging. People think you should quit because of NIL, transfer portal. To me, I like taking negatives and turning them into positives. And these are things that need to be fixed and I love being part of that. My wife Sally and I decided this time we're not going to sit around and start talking about quitting because when you do, you don't do as good a job.

Because when you think about quitting, you quit because you're slowing down in all areas. You're not worried about the recruit that's going to play in three years. So what we decided is we're going to work as hard as we can every day and the day that we feel like it's best for somebody else to take over, then we'll quit. But we're not going to think about it or talk about it. All the opponents talk about it. I thought it was a compliment. I used to worry about it and now everybody says, well, he's going to quit next year. And I said, what a great thing they want me to quit.

They're just trying to use that against you on recruiting. You know that. He's the great Mac Brown coach. Good luck this season. Good luck in the off season as well. We appreciate the time today. Thanks, Zach. Thanks for having me on.

There he is. Mac Brown joining us. A little college football fix right here on the Zach Geld show on the Infinity Sports Network. Always enjoy our conversations with coach whenever he does stop by with us. It's also time to ask the pros where you, the listener gets asked us a question.

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I go sports net sounds like I'm in a DJ booth it does To be a remix we have as a rejoined you're listening to the Zach Gelb show on INF sports net Alrighty we will take a break when we come on back. Hopefully I won't be fired when we get back on the air But Aaron Rodgers, I'm gonna try for people to understand my sarcasm when I say this through the microphone he Has been shining shining. He's been shining shining like a star in OTA's Like what are we doing? I'm reading some of the reporting yesterday about Aaron Rodgers and how greatly he's throwing the football and how he's shining in OTA's It's really insufferable I've covered OTA's they're the most monotonous Waste of time things I've ever had to cover Like that you have reporters there. This guy's going seven for seven and this seven on seven drill.

He's been unbelievable Oh, this guy is six catches for a hundred yards. They're wearing shorts and a t-shirt You know, I don't want to sound like AI we're talking about practice though and People freak out if people don't perform well in practice and they freak out the you know an excitement if they perform well But with Aaron Rodgers shining like a star like a bright star in OTA's talk about the Jets on the other side What's the floor? What's the ceiling for gang green and also Aaron Rodgers trying to bring hope?

To the Jets organization who are some players right now in the NFL that brings hope to that other team Around the NFL around the league. We'll discuss that on the other side Johnny lives just talk some pucks as well and Bart Winkle will join us for Winkler Wednesdays to all coming up next and our number Two right here on the Zach Elb show Dive into the start of summer at Whole Foods market check out their summer splash event with sales on fresh organic produce organic Strawberries and a fan favorite sale on Ben & Jerry's and to lenti explore deals on grill friendly meats like organic air-chilled Chicken breasts beef and chicken kebabs all with no antibiotics ever from our meat department Plus grab easy sides from prepared foods and cool off with refreshing drinks Kick off your summer and shop in store or online at Whole Foods market today. The wait is over That's right. Season 5 of the Kardashians is here. Just when you thought life couldn't get any faster They're punching it into overdrive Chris Courtney Kim Khloe Kendall and Kylie are back and continue to defy expectations in all their endeavors So get ready to go behind the glitz and glamour of the most iconic Family on television the all-new season of the Kardashians premieres May 23rd streaming on Hulu