Comparing Eras (Hour 2)

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A Peanut Butter M&M's Production. In a world where Super Bowl winners get the world's admiration and a fancy ring, but the runners-up get nothing, one retired cop returns. That's one retired quarterback. Read the script.

Oh, sorry. One retired quarterback returns to claim what's his. Um, that's claim a ring with diamonds made from M&M's peanut butter, but you're on a roll.

The Ring of Comfort. Coming soon to a Super Bowl new you. Alrighty, underway hour number two of our radio program. That's right, it is the Zach Gelb show coast to coast on CBS Sports Radio 855212 for CBS 855212.

42-27. We are live on location all throughout the week in Las Vegas inside the Mandalay Bay Convention Center. You have Maggie and Pearl off broadcasting from here later in the week.

Amy Lawrence as well, and obviously our show Monday through Friday from 3 to 6 p.m. Eastern, noon to 3 p.m. Pacific. We'll be joined momentarily by Thomas Dimitrov, former NFL general manager, and then Eric Eger, who does a great job running Sumer Sports. And this is the epicenter of the football world this week.

Clearly with one more game to be played, Super Bowl 58. And I'm at the point already, even though it's only Monday and you should enjoy your time in Las Vegas, because before you know, you're going back to New York City where let's be rather here in Las Vegas. Not good this week. It is rainy for three days while we're here. I am Monday today rain tomorrow expected rain Wednesday expected rain as well. And we're gonna have some great shows some big names. I mean big names from Justin Jefferson to Joe Montana expected to stop by as the week does continue to move along. And you know how it is Monday usually a little bit slow at the site of the Super Bowl Tuesday as well.

And then once Wednesday occurs, man, this is just shot out of a cannon. You are off and running and it is some wild stuff that does occur at the Super Bowl location. And tonight, I think this is the most excited I've been for an opening night for a media night in Super Bowl history. Like we all remember Marshawn Lynch when he did the whole I'm just here so I don't get fine thing. And he would not really answer any questions. Never forget Spike Eskin, our boss's father, Howard Eskin was trying to ask legitimate questions to Marshawn Lynch at opening night.

And he just got absolutely nothing. But the circus that is going to occur tonight at Allegiant Stadium because that's what they're doing the media night right where the Super Bowl game is being played this year. There's gonna be no one that's in more demand than Travis Kelce. And that's like a crazy thing to say even though it isn't because we all know what's gonna bring a lot of people together whether you're a football fan or not.

It's the relationship status of one Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift. And I don't think this is crazy to say because it has nothing to do with the game and the numbers back it up. It's by far and away the biggest story of this Super Bowl. Like on the Chiefs side, you have if you want to take away the Travis Kelce Taylor Swift relationship, it is Mahomes continuing to move up the all-time great list. Some have already prematurely and disrespected Tom Brady by saying that Mahomes is the greatest quarterback ever.

That is just a premature conversation at this point. But that's the story with the Chiefs. If you take Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift out of it, it is Kansas City, three Super Bowls in five years, moving up the Mahomes ranking and solidifying themselves as the next NFL dynasty. And then on the 49ers side, it's just getting the job done. The Niners have been here. They have been in NFC Championship games. They were in a Super Bowl back in early January or early February of 2020. And now it's putting the cherry on top of the sundae because when you get so close for so many years and you've been knocking on that door, and a lot of people probably wouldn't think that the Niners would take a step back and would regress next season, but when you have been right there and you haven't won, there is a mental grind.

And you even heard it. I was in the Kansas City locker room after winning the AFC Championship game. Even Andy Reid admitted to it. When you are in these battles and you are in these wars and you are playing long into the NFL schedule and you're usually in that final game, or bare minimum, the second to final game of the season, your offseason gets cut short. Your offseason, yeah, it's, you know, I get it, penthouse problems.

You're in the penthouse. You'd rather be winning than being a bunch of losers. But when that does all go down and you have just consistently been there, there is a mental grind to it that does occur. So it's one of those things where, from the 49er side, you keep on getting here, you keep on getting close, now you've got to get the job done, and now you've got to finish the job. And they're right there. They're at the five-yard line, and it's going to be a tough final five yards to get to, but they are more than capable of getting the job done coming up on Sunday. And that's going to be the, you know, those are the two big things when you look at it from a broad standpoint, and then it's just Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift, and you know that's going to dominate.

And I mean absolutely dominate tonight at opening night. And you're going to have so many crazy people asking crazy questions and not making any sense, trying to be the funniest person in the room when they do get a chance to fire off a few questions to Travis Kelce coming up later tonight. And now joining us on set, Sumer Sports, tremendous job, former NFL general manager Thomas Dimitrov, and then also Eric Eger as well. And Thomas, I know like a lot of people are excited to talk to you, and I'm not saying that I don't want to talk to you, but my brother-in-law is the biggest, and I mean biggest, Eric Eger fan. Every single time he comes in from Colorado with the baby and all that stuff, and we're driving around the car, I have to listen, and I know Eric Eger, I love Eric Eger, I'm a fan, but it's like I can't escape Eric Eger, because that's all my brother-in-law does. He doesn't even talk to us, he just listens to Eric Eger's podcast.

It's crazy. So how are you doing, Eric? I make me blush. You're getting red?

Yeah, I'm doing great. Eric Eger may have to come out to a Gelb family dinner, I think. You may have to come over to Thanksgiving. I gladly would. Look, Eric has been kicking butt in so many levels, as you know, just like you let in, it's perfect. Even our booker was like, hey T, I know people are wanting to be here, but I mean, Eric, they want him alone these days. I'm like, that's fine, take it, man.

And as you know, we love being together, because every time I can kind of do the broad stroke deal, and then Eric, I toss it to him, and then he finishes it with a really good pop of data. What do you expect from a Ph.D. in mathematics? But he's quick to say he's also a football player from like Mankato State? I'm sorry, Minnesota? South Harmon Institute of Technology?

Minnesota State. So, analytics standpoint, because I like analytics, I don't live and die by them. I am a gut guy when it comes to football. I want to hear your thoughts on Dan Campbell. This is what I've been waiting to ask you as we got here.

This is like the number one thing on my mind this week with you. Dan Campbell, NFC title game, take me through the two decisions to go for it. I think they were both supported by data. I mean, Dan Campbell this year, we measured this at Sumer Sports. He added 1.04 wins to the Lions ledger by fourth down decisions, two-point conversion decisions, timeout stuff. You know, in the game against the Rams, at the end of the game, the Lions had all their timeouts. The Rams had none of them left.

They were able to hold the ball. I think Campbell has done a great job of marrying the football side. I think about, you know, Pené Sewell being one of his first draft pick, and looking at him and being at fourth and two the whole season.

And I'm going to take all the numbers out of it. Fourth and two, the entire season, you've run the ball in third and seven to set up fourth and two so that you can run behind your number seventh overall pick out of Oregon. And I don't get the people who are saying, you do that all year, and then in the big game, you're going to say, no, Pené, I'm going to take Michael Badgley and now try to tie this game from 48 yards. He hasn't kicked an outdoor field goal all year. I think it's part of their identity, and I think what it does is it leans into their strength, which is at the line of scrimmage on offense. You know, Jared Goss had a really good renaissance in his career, but for the most part, they've built that team the Dan Campbell way.

And in this really weird roundabout way, the Dan Campbell way marries itself with the analytics because if you grade at the line of scrimmage, you're going to be great on fourth down. I don't know what your thoughts were, Thomas, on this, but the way that I looked at it, as Thomas Dimitrov and Eric Eger are here with us from Sumer Sports, the first one, when they were up by 14, I'm okay keeping the foot in the gas pedal and going for it. That one I didn't really object to.

It was the second one. You blew the lead. You're down by three. Everything you just said makes sense. I'm not debating the analytics of it.

But just from a momentum feel, I'd rather kick the 48-yard field goal than go for it on the two yards. It's actually frustrating with what this has turned into because it is divisive. Analytic crowd, football guy crowd, and it gets ugly.

There's a lot of fights that go on. I have to say I agree with you 100 percent. Sorry, Eric.

It's fine. We can respectfully disagree. No, look, we can. I mean, I think... I don't know. In this world, it's just yelling and I'm right, you're wrong, and then there's no discourse.

What's your brother thinking? I mean, look, maybe. Look, I think it's funny you say that because I go back to... There's always something else around it. Someone asked me at one of the other places, was there someone upstairs saying, no, that's how it is, right? We know how that is.

Do you want to expound on that? Well, so most teams have a person, like a coach. So for the Ravens, the guy's name is Daniel Stern. Actually, one of my former interns is one of the analytics people for the Lions.

They have a guy named Caio Brignetti who works for them. Oftentimes it's feel, but I think a lot of times they do the preparation pregame so that Campbell knows kind of intuitively what to do. NFL teams can't use an algorithm during the games. You're not allowed to use computers, so it's either sometimes a printout or they just go through different stuff with him pregame.

So I don't know how the Lions do it necessarily, but oftentimes it's part of the pregame prepper. Hey, you're in this position. What are you doing? And oftentimes, you're right, you can't permute through all the various, okay, we've given up a 17-point lead.

What the heck are we doing here? And so maybe in that case, the momentum, maybe they didn't permute through all the possibilities momentum-wise. Maybe this is just dumb football meathead guy like myself and maybe I just don't understand it. Did the analytics ever say to not go for it? Because when I watch a game and they put up, the analytics say, go for it, go for it. I never see them say punt it anymore. It's crazy to me. Well, I think that they just don't put it up because I actually, like three years ago, I worked for Troy Aikman on Fox and I was the one sending the probabilities to him and they do say don't go for it all the time.

I think it's just that that is our base, our null hypothesis. So they're not going to put that on air because it's just sort of not sexy. It's boring?

Yeah, it's boring. But I do think, like for example, the one at the end of the first half where it's fourth and two, I think, right before the half. Yeah, like 10 seconds left. And so a lot of people are like field goal is okay there and I'm okay with that because one of the things is the benefit.

You don't get to back them up. If you don't make it, they're just taking a knee and it's fine. And I was shocked he kicked that, by the way, because everyone's going to tell you this is what they've done all year.

Well, then what about right before the end of the first half? Yeah, exactly. And I think a lot of times from their perspective, you can lose a little bit of the credibility in the locker room when you've been one way the whole time and you change. And so from my perspective on Campbell, I'm okay with what he did because he was who he was and it was the identity that they struck. And the Detroit Lions haven't won a playoff game in 32 years prior to this year. And so they needed every bit of that identity to build up what they built up.

And if they lose an NFC championship game at seven-point underdogs to the San Francisco 49ers on the road, so be it, I think. That's kind of how I see it. It's like go out the way that you've always gone out in that particular game is kind of how I see it. In October, Thomas Debitrov, I was convinced you were going to be the Patriots' general manager and Bill Belichick was going to be the head coach. That's what I just threw out there.

That's what I thought was going to happen. Did that ever have a shot of you wanting to back up in New England? You know, I've not talked to anyone in New England about it. It's interesting you say. I was very versed at least in watching what was going down in Atlanta just because I was fascinated between both men, right?

Arthur Blank and Bill Belichick and how they work together. But interesting you say that. I'm interested to see who they do, in fact, hire as a... It's a bizarre process right now.

It is. Because they have said that they're going to do that after the draft, correct? And when you have the third overall pick, it's like, hello, what's the point of the GM? Well, maybe they just think Jayden Daniels and let's just go home. Maybe.

That could be a case, but if they picked up the phone, do you want to get back into the general managing landscape? You know, from day one, even with my boss in sumer sports, I've always said, look, I'm really interested in seeing what continues to evolve out there. And the reason I stayed in this is because I believe wholeheartedly in what we're doing at sumer.

So that's where my focus is. But of course, if someone knocks, I'm always interested in talking because I think we're evolving so much in this league and to be able to come back, just to bring this back around, having all that 30 years of basically experiencing the NFL and having two years getting my masters in data with guys like this. He's Harvard. That's a pretty cool thing to be able to come to the table and say, look, there's a lot out there that you NFL teams can tap into if you're open-minded enough. This is the way that I perceive the whole Belichick.

I think Blank wanted him. I think that's clear as clear could be. And then the relationship with Rich McKay, and I get it, there's other guys in that building that said, I don't know if I'm going to have a job if Bill comes in because Bill is, I love Bill Belichick. I'm a Patriot fan. Bill Belichick is my favorite head coach of all time. But he's stubborn. And when you're used to doing something your way or the highway for so many years, you don't change a Bill Belichick. And I think ultimately the people in that building got to his ear and changed Arthur Blank's decision.

Well, look, you're right on. I think historically there's never been a chance or will be a chance in the future for this level of GM and the owners to acquire a head coach who's not just retiring at the end of this. He's available.

That's unbelievable. I mean, I've said this to different owners this year. There's no coach out there in the next two to three years that can win you a Super Bowl or bring you closer than Bill Belichick. And like you, I think he is top notch.

I think he's a situational mastermind, which is a problem with a number of coaches in this league and even some very good coaches. That said, like you said, it's an acquired taste or whatever. You know that you're going to have to step back. But if you are in fact structuring for great, that's the man you need in your building. You just have to understand it's going to be different.

But it's a really tough needle to thread, right? Because when you guys won in New England, it was desolate there, right? When you took over, it was 5 and 11 right away.

It wasn't. And with Belichick, his goals in many ways are to still win, to get the Don Shula record. And for him to go to an organization like that, that type of team is still going to have holdovers that want to keep their job because a place that's able to win now with just a little bit of a tweak is going to have people who are going to balk at a Belichick.

A place that's completely barren and would welcome somebody to come in and just do it his way might not be attractive to Bill. And maybe will after one year of sitting it out and seeing what a year out will do to him mentally. But I think that that's where the rub happened this year, which was the Falcons are a team that could win with just a small adjustment. But the reason that that's the case is because there are good things about the Falcons and those good things don't want the apple cart upset.

And that's probably why they stuck with the status Chloe kind of higher. They would have made the playoffs this year if Arthur Smith didn't try to make Desmond Ritter the focus on that offense. That's the... Game managing is fine. We all get obsessed with it, but I thought Smith was in his own head that he had to make Desmond Ritter be more than a game manager.

And it drove me bonkers. I thought he was in... I think Arthur Smith is a really good thinker in the NFL. I think what he did with Tennessee was phenomenal. The really cool part is Zach Robinson, now the OC there, one of the things I love about Zach was out of anybody I worked with at PFF, he asked the best questions. And I think that Arthur Smith unfortunately this year had all he had was answers. And most of the time they were...

I think that most of the time they were wrong. And so it's going to be a difference. I'm bullish on the Falcons even without Belichick just because I think they have some great coaches there. But I think that that contrast of open-mindedness that we just did not see in the 2023 Falcons, I think you'll see a huge contrast in the 2024 Falcons.

And put it this way as we're wrapping up with Thomas Dimitrov and Eric Eger. Raheem Morris deserved another opportunity. I don't think Raheem Morris is a bad hire. But when everyone was told it was going to be Belichick, it's underwhelming. Similarly to the commanders, Dan Quinn is not a bad hire. Dan Quinn's been a good head coach in this league, but everyone got their mind thinking it was Ben Johnson for ever the reasons where Ben Johnson didn't want that job. And that's why people are like, oh, Dan Quinn's a bad hire.

When it's not a bad hire, it's just underwhelming. So you knowing Dan pretty well, what do you tell commanders fans that are doubting this hire? And I've been on a number of stations talking about it because, I mean, Dan is very mindful, has a number of, there are so many positives about Dan, high energy. He is a very smart football coach. He's a guy that's really dialed in, and he has an awareness of what's going on in the building with the players, with the management. He loves personnel, so he's not a guy that's going to step all over Adam Peters' toes. But he's going to be a guy that's going to be involved in it in a good way. In my experience, we've been around head coaches before who can be a complete PIA, right?

They are a pain at every level. That's not Dan. Dan goes in there. I honestly, mark my words on this, I honestly believe, yes, I get a young head coach and he was the guy everyone was talking about, right, Ben Johnson. I'm happy for them that they got Dan instead only because Dan is going to bring to that organization that's kind of been, and I don't mean to throw darts at the last regime, but Dan is going to bring an energy there that they haven't had there in a while, right?

Well, it's new life without Snyder. Yeah, exactly, where I don't know if Ben Johnson was going to do that. I mean, Ben has, I haven't seen that yet. I don't know Ben's ability to take the entire room. Dan Quinn can take the offense and the defense, meaning he can, he owns them as a leader. He's a leader of men. I think that organization needs that. I think by bringing in the coordinator that they're bringing in, and I think he has obviously worked with them at USC, a quarterback that could potentially go there. I just think this is going to be a much better situation in Washington than some people are giving it credit for. All right, I know you guys got to run, so tell me more about Super Sports, and then also give me an analytic kind of perspective on this game as well.

Because you know what? My brain's telling me Kansas City. My gut's telling me the 49ers. I'm trusting the gut because no one's picking Kansas City, it feels like.

Wow, I feel like that's the exact opposite. I feel like everybody's brain says the Niners are front to back, the greatest players. Next year, by the way, five players are going to make 20 million or more against the cap. They're stacked, right? I feel like everybody's brain tells them the Niners are a better team from front to back on the roster. Great head coach, obviously. Great play caller.

And everybody's heart says, but it's 15 on the other side, right? Sumersports.com, we have a big game breakdown. We had a similar playoff breakdown. Forty-one pages of statistics, quotes from a former NFL GM, Thomas Dimitrov, quotes from some schmuck who got a PhD in math as well. We also have some prop bets.

Talking about my brother-in-law or you? Some prop bets. I was explaining to Thomas some of the interesting propositions that you can bet on the game.

All that's in there. I think this game's going to be a little bit lower scoring than people believe. I think that the NFL in 2023, even good offenses limit the game. That favors Kansas City, right? I think it's favoring Kansas City, and you saw the Ravens game as well. There are fewer possessions. The Chiefs give up a lot of first downs, but they don't give up a lot of touchdowns.

And I think that that's a structural way that Brett Beach has built that defense. The most intelligent people, it pains me to say this because it just drives into the analytic crowd, but I think these most intelligent people we're going to talk to all throughout the week. He is Eric Eger and Thomas Dimitrov from Sumersports. Gentlemen, thanks so much for doing this as always. Thanks for having us.

This is Eric Helpshow, CBS Sports Radio, coming on back from Radio Row. When the whole family comes together to watch the game, nobody wants to miss a second of the action to run to the grocery store. With Instacart, you can get all your weekly groceries in as fast as an hour.

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A peanut butter M&M's production. In a world where Super Bowl winners get the world's admiration and a fancy ring, but the runners-up get nothing. One retired cop returns. That's one retired quarterback. Read the script.

Oh, sorry. One retired quarterback returns to claim what's his. That's claim a ring with diamonds made from M&M's peanut butter, but you're on a roll. The Ring of Comfort, coming soon to a Super Bowl New Year. All right, you can stream the NFL on Westwood One for free.

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The free AutoZone fix finder service can help you find a fix for free. Get in the zone AutoZone restrictions apply. Stu, blast it. So last night at the Grammys, this is clearly the takeaway from the Grammys.

This is all that I've seen people discuss. And I'm not usually a big award show guy because they've become kind of tedious throughout the years. But last night when you have Tracy Chapman and then also Luke Combs together, both singing Fast Car was a pretty surreal scene at the Grammys. It was surreal for everyone. Well, I guess kind of surreal for my old producer Hot Take Hickey as well because he was the only dope that didn't know Tracy Chapman's song was Fast Car. He always thought it was Luke Combs. So you at least knew that, Santa, that this was a Tracy Chapman song, right? I mean, come on.

Don't compare me ever to Hickey. Of course. Of course.

You know what I realize in this new lineup? We have started like wars with producers here. Oh, it's going to happen. We really have. Oh, yeah. Shep, Hickey, you.

I just feel like I'm stirring the pasta pot and everyone's jumping in that pasta pot for the sauce. Just wait until we throw EJ and Decel and D-Bend into the mix, too. Yeah. D-Bend I think we'll stay away from. I like D-Bend.

He used to work with me. EJ hasn't done anything wrong, but one little kerfuffle here at Radio Row and then who knows? We could throw some fisticuffs. That could definitely happen later in the week. So it got me thinking when you put those two guys together and you have them play that song and it makes this big reaction. We go NFL, NBA, NHL and Major League Baseball. You could take two guys from any era and have them play at the same time. It's so many of those like, what if this person went up against this person in sports?

That's what I was thinking about how we could make a nice moment at the Grammys into some like cheesy kind of radio topic if I'm being just completely honest with everybody. But for the NFL, I think this one's obvious. Some people may go corner wide receiver and take it literally like an actual matchup defensive end up against a big hog molly on the offensive line. But Tom Brady against Joe Montana, that to me, if you could put them in the same era and then see who the actual greatest of all time would be, would be really fun.

Because you have for so many years, right? The older guard that would say, Montana, Montana, Montana, he's never lost a Super Bowl. And then it was Brady who played for 20 something years, ended up winning seven Super Bowls and going to 10.

You could put those two elite winners at the same time. Santa, man, especially one year on the AFC, you know, another on the NFC, right? In their glory days, 49ers and Patriots. You can forget about the Chiefs.

You forget about the Bucks. Obviously, we could just wipe that from the record, even though Brady ended up winning a Super Bowl with Tampa Bay. Imagine if you had those Super Bowls like we lived and we were here for Brady and Peter Manning in the same division for a little bit and then the same conference. If you could get Brady on Montana in the big game and that was like a five-year stretch where we got three out of five years or four to five years with those guys, that would be unbelievable. It really would be.

No, it definitely would be. And I think the AFC, NFC part would be really cool because you'd have that quarterback conversation. But when I'm thinking about the way you discussed that whole thing, the different eras, I was thinking offense and defense. Like, who would I like to see defend who?

Yeah. And because as a Jets fan back then, I despised Tom Brady. I would love to see him go against Lawrence Taylor over and over and over and over and over again. Well, that's actually a good part of that conversation because you will have the older school guys that will trash these quarterbacks now because they go, oh, you basically were protected, you never got hit, blah, blah, blah. And people forget how long Brady's career was. Brady played in almost like three different eras in the NFL.

And some of the rules were changed because of him, but he also played when you could actually hit a quarterback that wasn't to the level that it occurred in the 80s and the 90s when Lawrence Taylor lined up. And other quarterbacks are basically peeing down their leg for a better way, you know, to put it. Now, the NBA, isn't this obvious? I could already hear the hot takes peeling.

LeBron and Michael. That's just that. That's the easiest one.

I don't think we need a discussion on that. It's the easy, obvious one. And obviously that's the one that everybody wants to see, but I have a couple other ones that could be interesting.

Yeah, I'll let you get to it in a second. Yeah, yeah. I would rather see Brady Montana than LeBron against Michael. No. I don't think that there is a matchup I'd rather see than LeBron-Michael in any sport because, like you said, Montana and Brady aren't playing against each other.

Fair. LeBron would be guarding Jordan. Jordan would be guarding LeBron. It would be one-on-one.

Who is the best player on the planet? With the Brady Montana thing, it would be so much about the success of their team surrounding them and playing each other in games. So you're arguing this from a logic standpoint. You're right, logically.

I'm arguing it. I just don't want to hear the takes about it. I am so tired and just done with this LeBron-Michael conversation, but this would be giving us the true answer.

That's exactly it. Like, that tiresome conversation. Like, I feel like the Brady Montana conversation is over now.

Brady is just so far above everybody else that there is no number two. Right? So you can't really have that conversation anymore. You can still have the LeBron-MJ conversation. All right.

You want to give me the others? So the other ones I thought would be interesting would be Steph and Bird. You know, can Larry Bird in today's NBA... Christopher Mad Dog Russo. You know, we'll see how good of a three-point shooter Larry Bird was up against Steph Curry, okay? And how good would Steph be in the 80s when guys were, like, elbowing each other and punching each other in the face. I'd also love to see either Shaq Wilt or Shaq Kareem, the three best centers I've ever seen. Shaq was so dominant. Bill Russell.

No, I'm sorry. Bill Russell too, sure. No, I'm just saying, throwing another big name in there. But Bill Russell was, what, 6'8", 6'9"? Shaq would have destroyed him. He would have, just from pure science... What are you talking about, Michael?

Come on, now. He was 7'2", 320 pounds with 5% body fat. He would have eaten Bill Russell alive. Not for anything that Bill Russell would do wrong. It's just he would not physically be able to compete. All right, hockey. This one, Alexander Ovechkin is not the best hockey player of the last 20 years.

That is Sidney Crosby. But for a while, no one ever thought Wayne Gretzky's goal record was going to be in jeopardy. And it's crazy, when you look at Wayne Gretzky, who has the most points in NHL history, you could take away all of his goals, and he would still have the most points in NHL history. So if we could get the great one in Wayne Gretzky up against Alexander Ovechkin, because that's going to be the guy that, assuming health plays out, eventually passes, Gretzky just in terms of goals, that would be fun. And here's the most interesting one, baseball.

I said this to you before the show, and you were like, I was never expecting this in a million years. We all know the hit king is Pete Rose. Randy Johnson has the second most strikeouts in the history of baseball. Pete Rose, like, never struck out. And now all people do is strike out in Major League Baseball. I would love to see just a strategic game between Randy Johnson and Pete Rose.

That would be my baseball one. That would be interesting. I don't think Pete Rose would strike out very often, but he would definitely not be able to get a lot of hits off of him.

Nobody got hits off the unit. But that would be interesting. It's similar to Tony Gwynn. Tony Gwynn never struck out. Pete Rose, it would be interesting. I don't think he would be successful, but I don't think he would strike out as often as others. There are some legendary pitchers that you would be like, wow. I can't believe Pete Rose had success, like a.400 average against some of those guys.

When you look back at the number, it was just so far out of reach. Alrighty, this is the Zach Gelb show on Radio Row. We will take a timeout. We'll come on back. Brian Billick is joining us, Super Bowl champion head coach. Brian Billick is going to stop by live in Las Vegas. Update time first.

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Yeah, Graybar does that. Alrighty, back inside the convention center Mandalay Bay, Zach Gelb show, Radio Row, Super Bowl 58. We inch closer and closer to the game on Sunday between the Kansas City Chiefs and the San Francisco 49ers. Now joining us, a man that has won a Super Bowl as a head coach, Brian Billick on behalf of Signal Relief. Coach, always great to see you. Thanks so much. How are you?

Thank you. Yeah, it's great. Great to be here.

It's going to be a fun week. So, the conversation, and I said this last week, I've reiterated it this week. I'm so tired of the conversation surrounding Brock Purdy and how good he could be. When you won a Super Bowl, right, still to this day people go, Oh, Trent Dilfer, like the worst quarterback to ever win a Super Bowl. Since you were in kind of that a little bit, just what's your perspective on Brock Purdy?

Well, unfortunately, he's going to hear that because of the pedigree. I think he's a brilliant quarterback. I think he's got all the elements that you need.

He seems to be very cool under fire. Obviously, Kyle Shanahan's utilizing him very, very well. But he's going to carry around Mr. irrelevant, fell in the draft for all those reasons, surrounded by great talent. He's a system quarterback until he wins it. In fact, even after he wins it, he's probably going to have to live with that.

But that's just part of the game. I mean, this kid, I think, is the real deal. He's performed in the utmost platforms. Now, he struggled a little bit in that first playoff game. First half, and the first half against Detroit really wasn't his fault. They didn't have the ball, right, the way Detroit ran up and down the field running the ball. But he delivered at the end of the Texans game, or excuse me, he delivered at the end of the first game and obviously played well enough in the second game that this guy's the real deal.

Unfortunately, I think he's going to have to carry that noise around him for a long time. And I've stopped trying to, I've got to talk about it, but I've stopped trying to figure out when quarterbacks come out of the draft, how many times do we hear the first guy, the second, the third guy in the draft are going to be great, and they end up being terrible, and then you get these late around picks that end up being stars. If Brock got picked second overall, third overall, the conversation would have been totally different than what it is right now. Correct, and the amazing thing, if you look, if he had magically been taken in the top ten, the career he's had so far, you would say, okay, he's a hit, he's not a bust.

But you're absolutely right, I wrote a book about it called The Q Factor about even in today's analytic-driven, all the resources we have, you take a first-round quarterback, it's a 50-50 crapshoot. You're all talking about the guys coming out now, Caleb Williams and the May kid, and I'm always, okay, are these guys the real deal? Yeah, they are. They're all capable of being CJ Stroud. They're also capable of being Bryce Young. They're also capable, I mean, all the guys that have missed in the first round were legitimately picked in the first round.

Now, maybe they should have fallen a couple spots. So there really is no rhyme or reason to it. It's a 50-50 crapshoot, and I defy anybody to lay claim to the fact that, well, I know what makes a first.

No, you don't. It's weird now, because I think when you get tagged the guy in college, and then you still have to go play two or three more years of college, it's very tough to then have success in the NFL. Andrew Luck had a lot of success in the NFL. Injuries derailed him.

He was supposed to be transcendent. Trevor Lawrence, it was one bad year, one really good year, one disappointing season. A guy for Caleb Williams who was tagged the guy two years ago, and this year had an underwhelming season, that's the one that I'm most fascinated by to see what his NFL career looks like. Right, and I think they'll still stay with it, because he has all the credentials.

He really does. But that's now guaranteed that once he gets into the NFL that it's going to be any different. And that's not a knock on Caleb Williams. I wouldn't begin to try to tell you which of the guys coming out that are going to be first-round picks are going to be busts.

I will tell you this, and I've got history on my side, half of them will bust. And that's just the way it is. Now, saying which one, that's a whole other... That's the tricky part.

Yeah, that's the tricky part. And the other part now is everyone's obsessed with Mahomes, right? He's the best quarterback. We all know that.

He's the thing that's going right now. You know football is a copycat league. I feel now the general managers go, how can we get a 75 percent of Mahomes or a 60 percent of Mahomes, and there's just nobody else right now that is like Patrick Mahomes? I love the one saying, well, can we go get a Patrick Mahomes?

Ah, well, there's not a lot of cats walking around like that, man. I mean, no. I mean, and even remember now, he filled with the 12th pick, which underlines just what we're talking about. In what world does Mitchell Trubisky get taken in front of Patrick Mahomes?

But at the time, that was the valuation, and there's not a whole lot of people that would disagree with it. I did not like the Trubisky pick when it happened, but I didn't talk about Mahomes. I was talking about Deshaun Watson.

Right, right, which is an illegitimate as well. I love Deshaun Watson's game. Hopefully, now that I think most of that crap in Cleveland is behind him, in terms of when he first came in in the injury, won a very good team, because I think Deshaun Watson's the real deal. Talking to Brian Billick right now, last week or two weeks ago, when the Ravens just no-showed, how stunning was that to you? You know, I don't know that it was a no-show as much as it was the fact that, again, you're talking about Patrick Mahomes.

They have the pedigree. And being in Baltimore and, well, we didn't run the ball enough, you didn't have a chance. The first quarter and a half disappeared. When you went three and out, they go length of the field in a six-minute drive and score.

Yeah, you scored. Then they go ten-minute drive and score, and then you fumble. The first half disappears for me. And they actually played better, obviously, in the second half. But with Patrick Mahomes and that group, you can't dismiss that. So, no, they didn't play up to what everybody thought was going to be a win for them at home. And I don't know the Lamar Jackson necessarily. I just don't think the game unfolded in a way.

There was no way it was going to happen. The approach, offensively, I didn't get. It seemed as if the Ravens, who talked about this before the year, they want to throw the football more.

That's fine, right? It was 20-23 at the time. I'm good with throwing the football more. It seemed like they were trying to win, though, that game only through the air, and they abandoned what they do best. Well, again, I think the flow of the game dictated that to a degree. I don't think they certainly went in with the idea that we're only going to run the ball 16 times. I do think that, and again, because that's Patrick Mahomes that you're looking at, who went up and down the field throwing the ball. I thought if Kansas City won, I told people on the radio beforehand, if Kansas City wins, we're going to be talking Monday about Pacheco and how Kansas City ran the ball uncharacteristically on Baltimore.

And then, of course, Patrick Mahomes. They didn't run the ball well. Now, they stuck with it. They ran under 100 yards, but they ran it 32 times. So they did stay with it, but Mahomes, and so I think to a degree, I think Lamar Jackson may have, okay, you get behind the eight ball.

I don't get as many series. He's up and down the field throwing the ball. I want to be that. I want to show that I am indeed that quarterback now. Now, they'll never admit to that, but there's got to be that little bit of chip on his shoulder, and that's not him. He's never going to be that guy.

It's his combination of what he's doing that's spectacular. He's never going to be a 550 throw, 70 percent, nine and a half yards per completion type of guy. That's not him, and that's not to say that he can win a Super Bowl with what he does well.

He's never going to be that guy. Wrapping up with Brian Billick, we'll talk about signal relief in just a second. I was always shocked you never got another opportunity to be a head coach. Belichick now got passed up this cycle.

Pete Carroll, I guess, nothing got cooking. Is there a moment where you realize, because when it immediately happens, you think you're going to coach again. When was that moment for you where you said, wow, I'm never going to be a head coach again? Well, me, it was a little bit different. It was earlier. I was in my mid-50s, and I was doing the broadcasting, so I kind of stayed close to the game, which gave you a little bit of a jolt.

And less stress, too, in the broadcasting world. Yeah, no one was trying to run me out of town. So there comes a point where you also recognize that, for me, and I remember Jimmy Johnson advising me, Brian, don't go back just to go back. I mean, I had a pretty good first marriage with Ozzie Newsom and the Ravens and the ownership.

Great organization. It was phenomenal, and I didn't want to go into a situation that I knew wasn't right. It didn't have to be the way I wanted it, necessarily, but that it had to be a shared vision at the top. And the few opportunities that I talked with some people did not see that.

Now, for Pete and for Bill, again, 72, I just turned 70. Frankly, I can't imagine going back into the grind. I've got too many other interests, for one.

Plus just, you know, and convince myself that I could do that. Both these guys are lifers. Do they want to go back and do that? Possibly. Maybe in a different role. But that's not what the league's looking for right now. They're looking for the young gun and that whole thing. So I don't know.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with them. And also now, and I don't think this is the case for Pete, it's more so for Bill, the My Way or Highway approach right now isn't what they're looking for. It's kind of a Dan Campbell and Antonio Pierce, guys that are players' coaches, but they're not doormats. And to Bill's credit, he's not going to trick you into thinking, I can imagine Bill sitting in the room going, no, we'll make sure we're very clear here. GM, you just stay out of my way.

Owner? That's why I didn't get the Falcons job. Yeah, exactly. Why don't you go to Europe for a couple years? Because we're going to do this my way.

And fair enough, he earned the right to say it that way. You can certainly understand why there's very few clubs that really want to sign on to that. Tell me about Signal Relief and what you're doing. Amazing product. It really is. It's one I became aware of about six months ago. And it's a patch. Now, it's not a TENS unit. There's no goo. It's not electrically.

It's based on electrical waves developed by the military. And we say you put it between the pain and the brain. It's an amazing product. You put it to deal with that subtle prohibitive pain that keeps you from doing the other things. That's really where the rehab comes from, being able to get back out, work your muscles, work your joints. Motion is medicine. And what Signal Relief does is, for me, I come off the golf course, it goes on my lower back.

I come out of the pool, it's my shoulder, my upper back. It deals with that slightly prohibitive pain that then allows me to do the other things, to work the joints, work the muscles. You can use it up to a year, so it's very cost-effective. You put it where you need it, which I love. And it's 100% money-back guarantee. People need to check this out that want to stay active, deal with that nagging prohibitive pain, get back to that motion is lotion mentality. Go to SignalRelief.com, put in promo code COACH, and you get 20% off your first choice.

Once again, SignalRelief.com. Before we let you run, Coach Brian Bilik, I always love talking to coaches, because I could sit there, break down the game, and then you guys could see something a different way. What's the one big thought you have for this game from a coaching standpoint? At the end of the day, we could talk a million things about San Francisco has the running game to get, but Patrick Mahomes. Well, but then they can set the play action up off that, and they're going to get kiddled down the field. And, you know, Tebow, Samuel, but you've got Patrick Mahomes.

Well, the defense can put a rush on that because, Patrick Mahomes. Actually, no matter what the reasons, and San Francisco's certainly capable of winning this game. I don't think mentally, don't get me wrong, it is a factor. We all know that. But I don't think they're going to be mentally spooked like some other teams are. No, because they've been there.

And that's a big part of it as well. And for God's sake, can you not let Kelsey go off? I mean, you've got to channel your Belichickian.

What's the one thing? I'd tell my defense coordinator, look, I don't care if we lose 100 to nothing. Just don't let Kelsey go off. I don't care if Pacheco has 700 yards rushing.

I don't want Kelsey and Taylor Swift to have a catch in this game. You can do that. How about that? He's Coach Brian Billick. Once again, SignalRelief.com.

Make sure you check it out. Coach, thank you as always. You're the best. There he is. Coach Brian Billick joining us on Radio Row inside the Mandalay Bay Convention Center.

Super Bowl 58. We continue to keep things rocking and rolling. One more hour to play on day number one inside the Mandalay Bay Convention Center. When we come on back, Sampders got some questions for me.

I got some answers. Yeah, we still do this on Mondays even though we're in Las Vegas. We'll do a little onside, offside. Salma Wolcott still will stop by 25 minutes from now. Back in five from Mandalay Bay.

That's claim a ring with diamonds made from M&M's peanut butter. But you're on a roll. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.