The Next Alabama Head Coach (Hour 2)

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That's right. It is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio. Just what a wild time in the coaching world. We find out Pete Cowell no longer is going to be the head coach of the Seattle Seahawks. Then two hours later, Nick Saban retires today. Bill Belichick is out of New England, and we're all still awaiting to find out what's going to happen with the future of Jim Harbaugh at Michigan. Now joining us, former Alabama quarterback. Now does a great job. One of the preeminent voices covering college football today.

SEC Network, ESPN. And that's our pal Greg McElroy, kind enough to join us right now on CBS Sports Radio. Greg, appreciate the time. As always, how you been? Good, buddy. Obviously a chaotic couple days, but such is life as the coaching carousel spins.

And right now it's spinning pretty quick. That's for sure. What was the first reaction yesterday when you got the alert, Nick Saban's walking away as the head football coach of Alabama? A little surprised. You know, there were just things that had transpired this season where you thought it could be the case. I mean, you thought every year for the last handful of years, there's been evidence of maybe him potentially telling his inner circle this could be it.

It's really been the last three or four years. So it was kind of boy who cried wolf, if you will. It was kind of slow to believe it. You know, I'll believe it when I see it type of approach. And then he had told people this year that he was a little more tired than usual, and we had just assumed it was because of how hard he had to coach that team to get them where they ultimately got.

So I didn't really put a whole lot into it. And then I found out that within 24 hours of him announcing his retirement, he had interviewed four different coaches, including two within the last two hours of his employment. He got out of a meeting with another wide receiver coach at about 3.55pm local time and told the team at four o'clock that he would be retiring.

So it was very sudden for all of us, knowing that it sounded like, according to my sources down there, it was business as usual until it wasn't. But that's coach. I mean, he doesn't want a lot of fanfare. He just wants to tell the guys that he feels he owes it to, and that's the players and obviously the other assistant coaches. I know what you said about him getting tired at times this year. You know, we've seen, and hey, these guys are getting old, so it's not crazy that they walk away. But we've seen guys like Coach K. Roy Williams recently retire, and we thought they still have good years left.

Jay Wright was younger. But the feel is a lot of it is because when you're at that legendary status, and now it's a new era of college football and college sports where, heck, I think there's some good with NIL and the transfer portal, I'm for it. But when you're at that status and you have to adapt to it, I think it kind of makes it tough when you're used to doing things a certain way.

Well, I think it was more about just how long the days were, and it's a lot less about the X's and the O's than it is the relationships. And constantly having to re-recruit your own roster, I think, does kind of wear some of these guys out. I mean, you think about the NFL, for example, and the Chargers' job, for instance. Let's say somebody takes the Chargers' job. You don't have to re-recruit Justin Herbert.

He's there. He's under contract. He's not going anywhere.

Keenan Allen's not going anywhere. Now, whoever comes in might ultimately decide to do away with both, but you don't have to get them to play for you on a daily basis. You don't have to get them to buy in to what you're selling on a daily basis. So I think that the old way of doing it, look, we followed coach wherever he wanted us to go. You tell me to do this? Perfect. You tell me to do this? Great.

You want me to jump off a bridge? I'll do that too. That's fine. I just don't think the modern players like that, and that's not a problem. That's not a negative. I just think it does wear some of these guys out, and frankly, even the younger coaches. I think the timeline of how long a lot of these guys will go is going to be considerably cut down.

One, because of the money they're getting, and two, because of how hard the job is on a weekly basis. Talking to Greg McElroy right now, were you surprised to find out today that Dan Lanning announced that he was staying at Oregon? Because last night all the speculation, that was the first name I thought of, but all the speculation was he was going to be the Alabama head coach.

Yeah, I mean, I thought some of the stuff last night was comical. Knowing a little bit more about what his contract looks like, and I've been told not just by Bama, but by A&M, and others that have done some due diligence on Dan Lanning, the buyout is prohibitive. Now, if you get a booster that just won't be denied, and he wants to cut a massive check, fine. You're going to match wits with Phil Knight, and you're going to match wits with Nike, and you're going to have a very expensive tug-of-war.

So, yeah, could something have happened with that? Sure, but I think now, and a lot of programs have kind of gotten to the point where, if you start paying the coach too much, then you're taking away from the pool that you'll have as a resource from an NIL standpoint. So you're robbing Peter to pay Paul, which is great, but you still are going to need that money to at some point entice players down the road to potentially play for you. So I don't think Lanning was ever a realistic option, to be honest with you, because I do think his buyout was so extravagant that it just was never going to make sense for anybody. Now, I think the next coach should be Kaelin DeBoer. After the Lanning news today, and I just heard everything he just said, how realistic do you think is Kaelin DeBoer in Tuscaloosa? Well, I think, first of all, I know they're looking at a bunch of different candidates, so anyone that says the search has been narrowed down to one, I'm not sure that's necessarily the case. They're still in the due diligence process, and look, I don't think Greg Byrne, he might have been caught by surprise yesterday, I don't know.

Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't, but there was absolutely a plan in place for when that day came. He was hired several years ago, and he's kind of played this song and dance for a number of years. Well, if this is the year, here's our plan of action, and as soon as Coach Saba decided to shut it down and retire, we've got to implement that plan of action.

So I think it probably changed on the annual. I would think Kaelin DeBoer would be a real candidate for sure. I mean, what he did at Washington, I think his offensive identity is comparable to what Alabama's used in success in the past. The big question would be fit and familiarity with the southeastern part of the United States, which he's not familiar with. He spent time in the Pacific Northwest, was at Indiana for a bit, and then was at Fresno State for the most part. So it's not like he is real familiar with the nooks and crannies of the southeast, but then again, in the NIL era, these places have a tendency to recruit themselves. And while you won't necessarily have the skins on the wall that Nick Saban was able to sell, as far as first round picks and accolades and contracts signed in the NFL and the sheer value that he could provide to players from a resource standpoint, having the NFL experience that he has, it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be a perfect and ideal candidate because you have a long track record of success in a particular part of the country.

So it'll be fascinating to watch. I mean, I think Kaelin DeBoer would be in the mix. I think anyone that runs that multiple style offense that is not that dissimilar from what Bama's used in the past with success, I think that can be assumed that if they go defense, you're going to have an NFL style defense. So someone that runs a lot of man, a lot of pattern match coverage, that's probably where you could probably start the search. Let's say I made Greg McElroy the AD at Alabama. Who are you hiring?

Who would be number one on your list? Well, I would not reveal that information because I would be in the midst of using leverage against the agents that are trying to use leverage against me. So, you know, am I privy to information? Sure.

So with respect to my sources and with respect to the people I've talked to that are directly involved and the people that are very knowledgeable about the undertakings, I'm going to resist the urge to answer that question, Zach. But I can tell you this as someone. Look, I'm a Bama guy.

It's a remarkably desirable job. And a lot of people have said, well, why would you want to follow Coach Saban? I mean, that just doesn't who would want to do that?

You'd have to be crazy to do that. But I actually think that the implementation of what Nick Saban's used in the last 15 or 16 years has created great alignment. And I think it's ready made to succeed in the near future under new leadership because everyone kind of understands, all right, here's how it worked under coach and we want this to continue. So let's keep doing what we've always done to support coach. It's just going to be a different coach and a different title that we that we adhere to. So a lot of people said it's not a desirable spot.

I've been told it's it's very much a job that people are bending over backwards to try to get. It's just a matter of who they ultimately tried to go after. Two names that have been speculated, I don't know if there are serious legs to it, are Dabo Sweeney and James Franklin. I would be no and no on either of them being the next coach of Alabama. Yourself, your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I think that's safe to cross them off the list. OK, good. I actually said right before we had you on that I would dump that Duke's Mayo on my face if James Franklin got the job.

It's amazing. Every time there's a job, I give credit to his agent, every time there's a job open in college football, James Franklin's name just magically appears. But he's has his own problems right now at Penn State.

All right. Let me ask you about Sark. As Greg McElroy is here with us, Quinn Ewers announces he's coming back today. You have Arch Manning behind him right now. Do you think with Quinn Ewers coming back, does that take Sark out of the Alabama running? I mean, possibly. I mean, he's a name that always is going to pop up until he cashes in big at Texas. I mean, until he has the prohibited buyout that Dan Lanning has. I mean, people are going to call. I mean, he'd be he'd be foolish not to at least, hey, Steve, any interest for every job? So so I think that that he look I think Quinn Ewers coming back, does that does that change his opinion?

Perhaps. But Sark is in a remarkably good spot. I mean, Texas is a great place.

They have tremendous support. He's already been to the playoff. He's ushering in a new era in the SEC, Sans Sabin. So right now, if you're going to list the top coaches in the SEC at the moment, I mean, it'd be Kirby Smart at the top. Steve Sarkisian wouldn't be too far down the list, depending on you have two, three, four, what have you. He's in the top tier. So he'd be a highly desirable candidate. But at the same time, I mean, the feelings have to be mutual. So I could see Sark certainly engaging in conversation.

But I think Texas would probably have a very difficult time letting them go. How much of a say like Sabin showed up today at what, 8 a.m. or something like that? I saw. How much of a say will Sabin have in this next head coach? 716 a.m., to be exact. The same time he showed up every day for the last 17 years. So that a welcome to retirement coach business as usual. I do think he wants to help in the transition and whoever it ends up going to, I think he's going to be there as a resource. But at the same time, I mean, he's he's not going to try to dictate and delegate how that guy runs the organization.

I just don't get the sense that that's the way he wants to do it, because he I mean, he didn't want any help from any outsiders when he was putting his fingerprints on the program. So I think he would pay that forward. But I mean, he cares a lot about the place. He cares about the fact that, I mean, his daughter has a degree from there. He's been there 17 years. Him and Miss Terry have developed tremendous relationships in the community.

So I do think he feels as if it's his duty to help. But I don't get the sense that he'll endorse a candidate or have an agenda as it relates to the hiring process. This is the creme de la creme job in college football, in my opinion, Alabama.

We know that there's going to be a lot of people that are interested. Is there a candidate out there in your mind or a name out there that you're like, hmm, really, people aren't talking about this person, but you think it would be a good hire? Well, there's a handful, but it just it just depends on the fit, because there's a lot of great coaches. I mean, there's a lot of great coaches out there. And I don't think all would work at Alabama. Full disclosure, same reason why not all work at Florida or Auburn or Georgia. There are just some places that are a little bit different. And frankly, I mean, there's not a lot that would work at Michigan and SC.

I mean, that's a pretty finite list. So it would depend a little bit on the personality traits of the coach. Someone that's very comfortable in their own skin, someone that has very thick skin, I might add, because there will be a lot of speed negativity that comes with this hiring. You could go hire Bill Belichick and people are going to be mad.

I mean, it's just the reality. People will feel as though it's a step down, fair or unfair. That's just it's going to be a polarizing hire regardless of who it ends up being. So whoever gets it's going to have to be, I think, thick skinned, be capable of running their own program the way they see it to be needing to be run. But at the same time, paying homage and respect to what's worked there for 17 years. And that's a delicate balance, I think, because you don't want to completely go in and start flipping tables and say we do things differently now. It's worked for a very long time with unprecedented consistency and success.

So you want to use some of the things that have worked and apply some of your own identity to the program as well. But if you know, I mean, it's all the usual suspects. I mean, everyone that's ever listed for any opening, I think, would be a candidate here as well. But there are some, a la James Franklin, Dabo Swinney, that don't feel like an ideal fit. Just given the personalities and what I think Bama probably needs to reach its peak under the next regime.

Yeah, I think the fan reaction point that you just made is a great one. And that's why I go back to Kalen DeBoer. The guy is one at every level. I know he doesn't have SEC roots, but I think he also has thick enough skin and his personality.

He just doesn't seem like he's fazed by anything where he could take some of that initial criticism at first. Well, it's coming, whether you like it or not, because he's not Nick Saban. And you could talk to people in the building right now and they're going to say it doesn't matter who it is.

The guy could be the next Vince Lombardi, but he's not going to do it the way it's been done all the time. So it's probably going to be a little different for folks. The press conferences will be different. The messaging will be different. The offensive identity will be different. Maybe the defensive identity will be different. All those things will probably make people a little uncomfortable just because it's like, well, it's worked this way for a long time.

Why would we change? But there's not another plug and play Nick Saban out there. Outside of Kirby Smart, who's probably the closest one, but I can't imagine he'd be willing to leave his alma mater in favor of a new challenge.

I mean, he's already got it rolling. There at Georgia is among the highest paid coaches in the sport, so he's not leaving. So I think it really comes down to whether or not the coach will be able to handle some of the initial criticism. And in the event in which the team loses two games in the season, that's going to be really tough for a lot of people to swallow.

That's going to be a hard thing. The expectation is perfection. And Coach Saban led us to having that expectation for his program. It's unreachable and it's improbable annually. But the good news is the 12 team playoff does come into the forefront next year. So Bama with the roster that they currently have assembled, I'm not saying their shoe in, no one's a shoe in, but the access to the playoff next year will be as accessible as it's ever been.

So the margin for error in the regular season is not as thin as it once was either. Could you see maybe this decision by Saban to retire, maybe change what Harbaugh is assumed to probably be happening, where he's going to go to the NFL just in terms of he could really be the next face of college football? Because still in college, the faces are the coaches more so than the players. I can't imagine Jim Harbaugh worries about outside perception. I mean, having been around him for a long time and known him, gosh, 13, 14, 15 years by now, he's just not the type that cares about being the alpha dog.

Mm-hmm. As far as how he's perceived, he wants to be the alpha dog on a daily basis. Sure, he's a crazy competitor and wants to win in everything he does.

But I do think there's some closure that happened on Monday night. And I think that there's a real possibility that when we fast forward three, four weeks, the challenge that he might ultimately have in the NFL, one that escaped him five yards away from the Super Bowl, that I think might be what's driving him. I think he cares a lot more about winning a Super Bowl than being the face of college football, because the face gets you nothing. But winning a Super Bowl, that would put him in a hierarchy of coaches alongside Pete Carroll, who recently shut it down.

I mean, there's not a lot of guys that have won a national championship and a Super Bowl, only one. So I think that pursuit probably moves him a little bit more than having people looking up at him as the most established head coach in the sport. I know Lane Kiffin was at Alabama, Greg McElroy as the offensive coordinator. A lot of fans have been throwing that name out there. Do you see that as a fit or do you think, OK, Greg, you know, Greg McElroy, that Lane Kiffin is going to be staying at Ole Miss?

No, I think he'd be a good fit, but I don't I don't see him as a realistic option at this point. It was kind of an unceremonious end to his tenure in Tuscaloosa as the offensive coordinator. He actually coached his final game in the semifinal game, a game that they were victorious, and he took the FAU job prior to the national championship and didn't call plays in the 2016 championship game.

They lost that game. Steve Sarkeesian actually called the plays. So I think just the way things ended for Lane Kiffin in Tuscaloosa would probably eliminate him from consideration at this point. And then the last thing I'll ask you, just, you know, 20, 30 years from now, you're talking about Nick Saban, your experience with him. Just what do you want people to know about your time with the ball coach?

I mean, there's just so many things, and, you know, he gets really mis-portrayed, you know, probably his own doing, but it's good cinema. I mean, you look at him on the sideline, he's losing his mind throwing headsets. I mean, that's, you know, we like that. Even when they're up 30 in a national championship game. That's my favorite part about Saban. Well, it's highly entertaining, but I want people to know that there was a much softer side to him and a guy that always seemed to find a way to kind of bring you back to level ground. So for instance, I mean, there are ebbs and flows in every career, right?

I mean, there's great games, there's terrible games. And his goal as a coach and making sure that, hey, you're never too high with the highs, never too low with the lows. So when you have a tough day, he's going to build you up and give you confidence. When you have a good day, he's going to bring you back down to earth a little bit. And he's going to nitpick the mistakes that you made. I'll be at maybe a few, but he's going to nitpick on those and bring you back down to earth so that you have a steady and consistent approach to towards the chase of excellence.

And that's how he lives. I mean, never too high with the highs, never too low with the lows. You can even see it in this press conferences after the team wins, but plays poorly. He's talking about how great they did, but they can go out there and win by 40.

He's talking about how many mistakes they made. That's just the way he is. And that's why his team's been so crazy consistent, Zach. I mean, 16 straight years, 10 plus win seasons.

It's unheard of. In today's day and age in a conference as deep and as challenging as the SEC to win that many games on a consistent basis is absurd. So I hope people realize that there's a lot more to the man that's roaming the sideline throwing his headphones. I mean, he's the best coach, I think, of all time at the college level.

He can make a strong case. He's the best coach all time anywhere. And I'm really privileged and grateful to have had four years with him.

It was an invaluable, invaluable part of my life and really formative years that have kind of changed my outlook on the world and have allowed me to become more successful professionally as a father, as all these other things. So outside of my dad, he's the biggest influence in my life. And I'm very, very grateful to have spent time with him the way I did. He's one of the preeminent voices in college football right now. The former Alabama quarterback that has a great job, ESPN, SEC Network.

He is Greg McElroy. Greg, appreciate the time all throughout the season. Thanks so much. Thanks, Zach. We'll see you, buddy. You got it. There he is. Greg McElroy joining us on the show. I have a lot of reactions to what Greg said when you could try to trim down the candidate pool and some of the names that we discussed, some of the names that maybe there's interest, not interest. We'll get to all that on the other side when we return in five minutes.

All right. It is Zach Gelb's show on CBS Sports Radio. This portion of the show was brought to you by Wesley Financial stuck in a timeshare and won out.

Contact Wesley Financial Group now and get a free timeshare exit information kit at WesleyFinancialGroup.com. So when I listen back to Greg McElroy, like the obvious two names you could cross off the list, which were never really obvious candidates from the start, are Dabo Sweeney and James Franklin. I was curious where he was going to be at with Lane Kiffin because Lane Kiffin to me and I like Lane Kiffin. But when I say head coach of Alabama, the light bulb just doesn't go off for me when it comes to Lane Kiffin. I think Lane Kiffin is like a head coach who's also like a frat star. And that's not the head coach at Alabama. You want to say LSU? You want to say Ole Miss?

I could see that. You know, a lot of what we had with Ed Orgeron is what I would say is similar to Lane Kiffin. And we all know Ed Orgeron won a national championship at LSU.

And then eventually, shortly after that, they got rid of him. But I think from a structure standpoint, it just doesn't sit right or compute with me when I just envision it. Like, there's just some names you say so-and-so to Alabama.

It's either like an X or it's a ding that goes off in your head. It just doesn't register a check for me with Lane Kiffin, even though there's obvious ties. And I think you need a little bit more of a button up kind of coach. That's what I keep on saying Kalen DeBoer.

And I think DeBoer is a good option. And, you know, McElroy obviously knows a lot more than anybody else. But I think he knows a lot more than anybody else. He didn't dismiss that name. Like, there was names he was willing to dismiss. He dismissed Lane Kiffin. He dismissed James Franklin. He dismissed Dabo Sweeney. But that name DeBoer, he didn't dismiss. You know, Sark? I see the natural tie-ins. I don't think Sark is leaving Texas.

I don't. Like, Dan Lanning didn't leave Oregon. And maybe Lanning wasn't really as much of a candidate because of the buyout, like Greg McElroy was saying, as it was presented to us last night, because there was some truth and obviously some lies that were being told last night regarding Dan Lanning.

And if Dan Lanning's buyout wasn't 20-something million or whatever it is, you know, maybe he would have taken the job. But Oregon's a good job. And I would like I could understand leaving Oregon for Alabama. But Texas, you know, I know we always kid around and we poke fun at Texas.

Are they back and everything? But you just made a college football playoff. And you have Arch Manning waiting in the wings and you just brought back or you had Quinn Ewers announce that he was coming back. So that's also another one where when I say Steve Sarkeesian, I just don't see him.

I can't envision right now a press conference being held in a week or two, whenever it is, where Sarson X head coach at Alabama. So I think this is going to be fascinating. I really do. And DeBoer is the one that I see right now. But let's say it's not DeBoer. Where are you going to go from there? Like, who is the person? And Greg hit it right on the head.

Whoever they hire, you know, unless it's Kirby Smart, which I don't think it's going to be Kirby Smart. Why would you leave Georgia right now when you have built Georgia into that unstoppable brand right now? You have things rolling. You've been able to beat Alabama and things are just rolling for you right now.

And you did that. So really, that fan reaction expected to be negative. But just because fan reaction is negative doesn't mean you won't make the right hire. How many times, whether it's in college or the NFL, do we sit here and do we say, OK, this is the hottest name on the market and the hottest name on the market is out of a job in two, three years and was just a putrid head football coach?

It happens all the time. And then there's names, NFL in college, that no one talks about. When they get hired, they laugh at them. They say, oh, what a terrible hire it is.

And that person goes on to have success. So to the people running this search, you got to have thick skin because nine point nine times out of ten here, whoever you announce is not going to be met with this resounding yes. And like this unbelievable reaction from the Alabama fan base, because you just had the greatest college football coach of all time, one of the greatest coaches in any sport ever in Nick Saban. And he is God there at Alabama. So whoever you bring in, especially if they don't have SEC roots, the Alabama fan is going to meet it with resistance. But that's why, you know, this coach, whoever they hire, has got to have thick skin. And just because like fans in the past, they like Sark and they like Lane Kiffin doesn't mean that that's the right hire. And we know today it's not going to be Dan Lanning.

We know for sure it won't be James Franklin or Dabo Sweeney. That's for sure. But there's going to be a lot of interest in this job. You know, I know sometimes people say you don't want to be the guy who replaces the guy. You want to be the guy who replaces the guy who replaces the guy.

I don't always believe that. You know, I know it's tough. I'm not saying it's easy, but when you have a prime real estate like Alabama, I'm not saying you're going to go win six championships. I'm not saying this next coach is going to be a six time national champion at Alabama, but you could continue to win and you could continue to move this train in the right direction. But regardless of who the coach is, I'll tell you this, you better make the college football playoff in year one. You know, if it was at four teams, I could understand you missing it. But if you go from having Nick Saban, who in one of the worst roster she's ever had, who just made the college football playoff in a four team format and you can't make it in a 12, oh boy, you want to talk about a rough year one and you think those fans will be out to get you when they start.

Imagine when you don't make the college football playoff in a, in a, in a top 12 format. And that's why the name I keep on going back to once landings off the market. And I said it right in the moment yesterday, landing or to board and now landing, whether they didn't want him or he didn't want them, I ever went down.

Now I go to Kalin to board and I know no sec roots. I get it. Right.

But the guy has won every level of football that he's played. He's going to have to adjust. He's going to have to adapt, but NIL transfer portal, he aces that stuff. And you give him the resources of Alabama, watch out. And you know, we can take the onslaught. That's going to be thrown at him right away. When people are going to be saying, Oh, you know, it's a dumb hire. Oh, what are they doing?

Alabama bunch of morons, blah, blah, blah. He can handle all that. You know, we've had Kalin DeBoer on this show numerous times.

They win. He doesn't get too high. He hasn't had many losses. So I can't even say he gets too low, but that dude, he's just steady. He's a football lifer.

He wins in everything he does. He's a really good coach. That's the guy. And maybe there's a guy that we're not talking about, you know, maybe it's someone in the NFL. Maybe it's someone that wants to get back into coaching.

Maybe it's, you know, a guy like Mike Norvell that, that has been talked about a little bit. Like there's going to be a lot of people out there because there's not many jobs that you say no to when Alabama comes calling. Like when you say, okay, I'm not going to leave my current job to go to Alabama. Not all jobs.

There's a few brands. There's a few that you could consider, but you get a call from Alabama, bare minimum, you're listening. Maybe outside of Kirby Smart. Maybe that's like the only one where he may not listen, but even Kirby may listen a little bit, even though in all likelihood, the answer would be no. What do you got, Sam? I get that Dabo has been slow in the uptick for NILs and transfer portal. So I understand that one transfer portal guy. Right.

And I get it. And I'm sure that any team that's going to hire him away from Clemson is going to say, Hey, if you want to come here, you're going to have to accept this and adapt and adjust. There are three coaches in college football right now who have national championships, Kirby Smart, Jim Harbaugh, and he might be gone. And Mack freaking Brown who won in 2005. Okay. Ah, hold on. You don't have to say Mack Brown.

He's a very nice older man. Why do we have to go after Mack Brown like that? Well, no, because he won his title 20 years ago.

Wait, say your names again. So Harbaugh. Yes. Kirby.

Mack Brown and Dabo. Yep. Okay.

As Sam just having a little cough and attack. Winning a national title in college football is not easy. Dabo has two of them. I know he has to adjust, but he's still Dabo.

Okay. And let me ask you this. Do you think Bill Belichick's an attractive coach right now? Do you think Bill Belichick is someone that, that you're all enamored about? Michael Samter? Well, we're talking about him going to the chargers or the Falcons.

I'm asking you personally. Um, no, I mean, he's still Bill Belichick. But, uh, I got some texts from you today where you were crapping on Bill Belichick. Well, listen, I do think that Bill Belichick, we have to look back at his career and wonder whether or not he's as great as we really think he is.

But he is. I mean, listen, he is an all time great, but his status as the all time great is in question. He struggled in Cleveland. He won a playoff game in Cleveland against Bill Parcells. He won a playoff game in Cleveland.

Sure. Against Bill Parcells. Bill Parcells is a pretty damn good coach. Right. But overall, he was not a success in Cleveland. Hence why he had a short stay there and was fired. Well, they moved the team and then they fired him. Right.

So they fired him. Okay. Okay. Continue. And his overall record in Cleveland. We're going to do this now. Continue.

Go ahead. His overall record in Cleveland wasn't great. He got fired. He wasn't great.

He wasn't a success in Cleveland. He was five and 11 his first year in New England. One and two until Tom Brady took over. And then Tom Brady took over and miraculously things changed.

Wait, but hold on. Who kept Tom Brady on the roster? Who drafted Tom Brady when he was a six round pick? We're not talking about the drafting. If we're going to have this argument, you speak, then I speak.

That's the way that it goes here. And then also Drew Bledsoe was the highest paid quarterback in the history of the league at the time. He gets hurt, comes backs ready to be healthy.

They say no. And then Brady gets hurt in the AFC championship game. Bledsoe throws a touchdown, a touchdown to help them win. And Belichick still said, we're going to go with Tom Brady. That wouldn't happen now with social media.

Sure. So give credit to Belichick with the game plan at Super Bowl 36. I give credit to Belichick for making a difficult decision to keep Tom Brady as the starter, which is exactly why Tom Brady is so much more than 60 40. The reason why Belichick won.

He failed it in Cleveland. He was failing in New England before Tom Brady took over. Tom Brady has left one year. Tom Brady has left and he failed miserably for multiple years after Brady left. Do you think Mac Jones is a good quarterback?

Immediately in his first year without Belichick won another title. Do you think, do you think Mac Jones is a good quarterback? Do you think Mac Jones is a good quarterback?

Yes or no? I think he has the potential. He was a first round pick and he was a champion. Do you think right now he's a good quarterback, Mac Jones?

Not right now. No, but, but part of that is because of Bill Belichick. You're not wrong. You're not wrong, but Mac Jones, who everyone likes to say is this terrible quarterback in this future quarterback and is this crying dope, which a lot of people say on social media, Bill Belichick with no talent, got him to being 10 wins and make the playoffs in his first year. Here's the thing with Belichick. It is, he was a bad GM recently. The guy's still a good coach.

The guy is still a great coach. Sure, but that roster is the second worst roster in the league. Maybe the worst roster in the league. They only got blown out. They haven't got blown out since week five.

Okay. And just for the record, I think Bill Belichick is a top four or five coach in the history of the game, where you look at Bill Walsh, you look at Parcells, you look at Lombardi, you look at Shula, you look at Chuck Knoll. These are the greatest with Belichick along, along the way as well. But he was unquestionably the GOAT five years ago.

Now the question is, is he one of the GOATs or is he still the GOAT? Who's your greatest coach of all time if it's not Belichick? I'm not saying that I don't think that Belichick is not the GOAT anymore. I just think that the question is now open for conversation. I don't remember enough of Bill Walsh to be able to say yes or no. I don't, I, you know, Don Shula I saw towards the end with Miami, but I don't know his, you know, Baltimore.

That's fine. If you want to say so. And same thing, Vince Lombardi, Chuck Knoll. So I can't make an educated conversation about that, but I think the conversation is back open again. The Nick Saban GOAT in college is still there. The Bill Belichick, the GOAT in the NFL, I think has reopened and a case can be made for four or five other coaches. And that's all I'm saying is that Belichick's legacy took a hit. He went from being the greatest of all time to now being back into the conversation with four or five other guys. In about ten years, when you move on from this recency bias, no one's going to remember the final two years in New England. But to end your point, and I know we got to get to Ack, you, you bring up Dabo Swinney. Well, Belichick wasn't willing to adapt. And now you're saying his legacy is taking a hit. And this is not, this is not an in the now take. This is a three year ago take when Zach Gelb got dragged in every Clemson messaging board. He has refused to adapt to the two biggest things in the sports right now, the transfer portal and the NIL. And just like Belichick, he is too stubborn to actually change. And that's why Dabo Swinney would not be a good choice to replace Nick Saban at Alabama.

Update time. Let's get to the Ack man, Rich Ackerman. Alrighty, this is Zach Gelb's show on CBS Sports Radio. We'll continue the Bill Belichick conversation. We'll also jump into Pete Carroll in just a second. We did do two hours yesterday on Pete Carroll, but I think it's pretty clear what his NFL future will be. But first, let's go out to the phones.

855-212-4CBS, 855-212-4227. Let's go to Wayne in New Mexico. Next up on the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio. Wayne, what's happening? Hey, thanks for taking my call guys. It's good to hear from you guys.

I wanted to chime in. I was curious if you think Belichick would actually take a part-time or an assistant job, not a full head coaching job, as maybe the defensive coordinator at Dallas. I know obviously D.C. is going to be going to, or Dan Quinn's going to be going probably most likely going to Seattle. I know they're talking about the guy from the Giants. Wink Martindale? Yeah, Wink Martindale going to Dallas. As far as the news, they're already talking about interviewing him and stuff too. So I know that they're thinking about him, but do you think Belichick would actually take a back seat and be a defense?

Because he's still really good. Are you a Cowboys fan just wondering? Yeah, a little biased. There's a little bias in that question for sure.

Let me ask it to you this way. Would you rather have Bill Belichick as your head coach or Mike McCarthy? Honestly, I like Mike McCarthy. I think he's the better offensive coordinator. I don't think Mike McCarthy's, I mean Bill Belichick's a good offensive coordinator. He's a defense of mind to coach. I think he did really good when he has a good offensive coordinator helping him. I would love to see him. So I think honestly, if he does take over a head coaching job, he needs to get a good offensive coordinator and him kind of mostly take control of the defense.

That's why I was kind of bringing up that question. Do you possibly see him going somewhere where he could be really successful with a good defense and taking a back seat and being a defense coordinator and think he's too much of an alpha where he would not be an assistant coach? Yeah, the latter part of that, Wayne, I appreciate the phone call. If you want to tell me maybe Belichick goes into an advisory role, okay. Like he maybe wants to take over a front office and be an advisory role. I still think you're like four or five years away from that, but there is no way when Bill Belichick still wanted to be the coach of New England and Robbercraft basically told him, we just don't think it's going to work out here anymore with you that Belichick isn't going to go to Dallas and be a defensive coordinator.

And not just Dallas, anywhere. He's not going to be a DC when you are like, Sam, there's now saying, all right, there's a conversation about his legacy. Like maybe he's not the greatest head coach of all time, but he's still in that conversation. Even if he's not as one of the greatest coaches of all time, when you're in that level, you don't go be a DC like, you know who may need to be an OC or a coordinator again before he becomes a head coach? John Gruden.

Alrighty. And like you saw that report in New Orleans that maybe he's going to be on the new staff for Dennis Allen. I know it's a little bit more complicated because there is a pending lawsuit with the league, but like John Gruden won a Super Bowl, but just because you win a Super Bowl doesn't mean you're a great coach. And I think Gruden is overrated. Like Belichick has been to nine Super Bowls as a head coach and has won six championships and also had two Super Bowl wins as the defensive coordinator. So I think I'm just going to go down a limb here. And that's a Cowboy fan that I just love. I do. And this is what I talk about in Cowboys fans.

They live in their whole different world. There's no way Bill Belichick is going to be the defensive coordinator of the Cowboys next year. The only way he's going to be DC of the Cowboys is if he's also the head coach. I don't think he's going to work under the bosom of one Mike McCarthy. All right.

I just don't think that's going to happen. Did you have to say bosom? Yeah.

It's just some guys. Oh, I also, I think it would be tough to fit both guys in the same room, if you know what I'm saying. With Bill Belichick and Mike McCarthy. Well, and then just imagine the egos of McCarthy, Belichick and Jerry Jones walking around and then Steven Jones to that too. McCarthy doesn't have an ego. I don't think McCarthy has an ego whatsoever in Dallas. Cause he's even said the old Mike McCarthy would have got insecure about Dan Quinn being there with all the speculation that Dan Quinn one day replaced him. And he wanted to make what's in the best interest of the football team.

And it would be like who doesn't belong. And I like McCarthy, but if you had an organization where it was McCarthy as the head coach, I can't even believe I'm entertaining this. And then Belichick in the DC and then Jerry Jones as the owner, that's basically your team is run by Jerry Jones and Bill Belichick.

Like Mike McCarthy had the head coaching job in title, but he really had no power inside that organization. So we could punt on the rest of that conversation. Alrighty. We will take a break. When we come on back, let's do a little predictions. Where's Harbaugh going to land? Where is Belichick going to land? Where is Pete Carroll going to land? And where is Mike Vrabel going to land? Cause we see Nick Saban retire.

I already told you my endorsement is for Kalen DeBoer. Take it for what it's worth to replace Nick Saban. Belichick available, Pete Carroll now available, Mike Vrabel now available and Jim Harbaugh. I can't say he's sitting in silence when he texted me back this week, but Jim Harbaugh, everyone just assumes that the domino to fall is going to be him leaving Michigan to go to the NFL. Now there's a parade for Michigan, I think on Saturday. So I don't think you're going to make that announcement now and then move away from that.

And there's still a process to undergo too. But I would say within two weeks, Jim Harbaugh, maybe three max is leaving his alma mater where he also won a national championship and he's going back to the NFL, but we'll make some early official predictions when the Zach Gelb show does continue in five minutes right here on CBS sports radio across all the great local CBS sports radio affiliates, Sirius XM channel 158, the free Odyssey app. And of course, streaming live on YouTube, youtube.com slash CBS sports radio. If you don't follow us on social media, make sure you do so right now. Like what are you waiting for? At Zach Gelb, Z A C H G E L B. I'll even spell it for you. Twitter, Instagram X, whatever you want to call it. We're there. Follow us.

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