JJ McCarthy is the key to The Game (Hour 1)

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Exclusions apply. See site for details. Here's your host, Zach Gilb.

YouTube. 855-212-4CBS. I'm going to jump on in.

855-212-4227. Got Moist Mike in the house. Stuart Kovacs is out because it's his birthday. He's probably hanging out with his girlfriend and getting some Fogo De Ciao. So we go to Mr. AO Pat Boyle in the house, rocking and rolling all the way up until 6 p.m. Eastern, 3 p.m. Pacific. Josh Perry, former Ohio State linebacker, now superstar analyst for NBC Sports. Going to stop by to preview all the rivalry games coming up 20 minutes from now. And then coming up in the final hour of the show at 5.20 p.m. Eastern, 2.20 p.m. Pacific will be Jon Jansen, the former Detroit Lion, and also offensive lineman for the Michigan Wolverines.

He'll be stopping by. We'll do a lot of Lions talk with him in addition to the game this weekend as he's the color analyst for Michigan football on the radio. But let's start with that game, the game. And there's a lot of years where this game comes and it's a big-time game just because of history and the rivalry. And we know for Ohio State this is everything. For Michigan, this is everything. But for so many years, Michigan was not able to take down Ohio State.

And it almost got to a point where it was comical. Now, the last two years, we saw two seasons ago, Michigan just emasculate Ohio State. And then last year, you did see the game be good for three quarters. And then the fourth quarter, Michigan took it right to Ohio State. Now, if you're a Michigan fan, you will say the sign-stealing scandal does not matter. They lined up the football. They beat the snot out of them inside the trenches. And they ran, ran, ran, ran, ran and ran the football until they couldn't run anymore because the clock expired. If you are a Ohio State fan, you will say, oh, those cheaters, they had to have Connor Stallion scout all the signs and steal the signs, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, to beat us two years.

That's what makes this game so fun. Because sometimes you have a rivalry. And a lot of times in sports now, we have rivalries, but in a society where it's like pat everyone on the behind, say everyone does a good job, a lot of times the rivalries don't have as much animosity as they once did.

And I don't want to sound like an old man here because I'm not, back in the day. But now, there is a great hatred. Now, this is personal. And when these two teams step on the field on Saturday at noon Eastern, this is going to be a bloodbath. This is going to be a war in a football sense. And I can't wait to go to Ann Arbor.

I fly in on Friday. I can't wait to attend the game on Saturday. The only thing that stinks about this game is I'm a big postgame handshake guy. But some people will say, Zach, what are you talking about? How many years have I listened to you where you have bitched and complained how people don't shake hands after a game?

People are freaking out. And you're saying, who cares if people shake hands? But I like to see a handshake when there's some animosity. Because then you could get a little Jim Schwartz and John Harbaugh situation, like you did all those years ago with the 49ers and also the Detroit Lions.

I like when it's an icy stare. I like when there's an aggressive handshake after the game. And we could have had that on Saturday because we know Ryan Day hates Jim Harbaugh and Jim Harbaugh hates Ryan Day. But Jim Harbaugh is serving the final game of the three game suspension by the Big Ten, which was idiotic, which was stupid by the Big Ten, which was a complete rush to judgment. And I'm not saying Michigan didn't do anything wrong. I've said from the start, Michigan deserves to be punished. Michigan deserves a punitive action. But to throw the book at them or to take the coach off the field for three games in season with how historically conferences and the NCAA move as slow as slow could be, I didn't think you needed to do anything in season. But Tony Petitti had to bow down and Tony Petitti had to listen to the other schools in the conference and swing his you-know-what around and say, hey, I'm the new guy on the block.

Hey, I'm the big man on campus right now. And I need to show Jim Harbaugh and Michigan who's boss, which is why it's stupid because now this is going to go back to the NCAA and the NCAA in what, like three years are going to decide, oh, Jim Harbaugh, you still have Michigan on? Yes?

No? We don't know? Oh, oh, yeah, then we'll tack on an extra three games for what happened with Connor Stallion. So the NCAA, even though I don't believe this, they still say that there's no evidence right now that Jim Harbaugh knew anything. Now, it's tough for me to believe, even someone that is saying Michigan should not get the book thrown out them, and now this three game suspension in season is ridiculous, it is impossible for me to believe that at no point Jim Harbaugh didn't know what was going on. But this is a rivalry where it's nasty, there's animosity, and even though sometimes people take it too far, this is what sports is all about. And it goes back to Harbaugh not being able to defeat Ryan Day, Michigan with COVID, skipping out of that 2020 game, then Ryan Day saying he's going to hang 100 on Michigan and he wants to beat the snot out of him, and then you see Michigan punch back.

Harbaugh say, oh, we can't all be born on third base. And then it led to back-to-back years, cheating or not, Michigan taking down Ohio State. This game means everything on Saturday. I love rivalries, like the Iron Bowl, I love it each and every year. Army-Navy when they play, there's nothing like Army-Navy, and we know what that game stands for. There's so many great rivalries in sports, but this one, there's no respect. This one, there is a hatred, and these two teams don't just want to win. They want to drag their opponent up and down the field, and this is going to be some sight, this is going to be some scene, and the only shame is that Harbaugh isn't on the sideline. Because it would add more to it if after the game you need to see Jim Harbaugh in the khaki pants, trot out to Ryan Day with that beard, probably wanted to go attack like a college football coach that's 85 like he did after the Notre Dame game, and then have to come together and do like the weak handshake, or oh, nice to see you, good to see you, the wave.

I would like to see that moment. And we got robbed of that moment because Tony Petitti is a gutless fraud, alrighty? And I don't like Tony Petitti. He's a coward. He's a pain in the ass.

But let's listen up. This is Jim Harbaugh, which is in the nonsensical suspension world. He's allowed to be there during the week for three straight weeks, but then on game day he's not allowed to be there. I'm really curious, what is Jim Harbaugh going to be doing during the game?

So I don't know what he did for the Penn State game, but last week he spent it since they were playing Maryland at his brother's house and watching with his brother's family before connecting back with the team. I really wonder what Jim Harbaugh is going to be doing during the game because he's not allowed to be in the stadium. Like it would be pretty damn cool, Michigan beats Ohio State and after the game, they like parade him in. Like he's like when the Pope comes to town, has the Pope-mobile, and you got the Pope-mobile on the field at Ann Arbor in the big house and Harbaugh emerges.

It would just be awesome. But let's listen up to Jim Harbaugh since he's allowed to be there during the week, but not on game day when he was asked, is there any respect for Ryan Day and Ohio State? Jim, this rivalry has always been heated, of course. It seems like there's always been a fair level of respect between the coaches.

It's hard to determine what that is right now. What would you say is your respect level for Ryan Day and their staff? It's all about our preparation for Ohio. I have no respect for Ryan Day from Jim Harbaugh.

That's so funny. Hey coach, so-and-so from the Detroit Free Press, where's your respect level at for Ryan Day and Ohio State? It's all about the preparation for Ohio State.

It's all about our preparation for Ohio. That'd be like, hey, Zach, do you respect working with Pat Boyle? Do you respect Pat Boyle as a human being? It's all about the preparation and doing a great three-hour show. Now, I respect Pat.

I love Pat Boyle. But when you don't answer that question, we all know what the answer is. And when you sit there and go, um, um, um, and sound like the emergency alert system, we all know you can't stand Ryan Day. So that question early in the week gets asked to Jim Harbaugh.

Very fitting. It gets back to Ryan Day. And then the Ohio State media members ask the same question to Ryan Day. This rivalry's been heated for over 100 years.

It's very intense. But there's always been respect among players or between players, it seems like. Does that hold true for coaches? Do you respect Jim Harbaugh and his staff?

Or what's the feel there? Yeah, I think, you know, with everything going on and the things that are out there, we've just kind of stayed away from all the distractions we have and just focused on our team. And I think our guys have done a good job of it. I think they're focused on this game. They're focused on this season. They're focused on their preparation.

And we're just going to continue on that. Gentlemen, I'm disappointed with Jim Harbaugh and I'm disappointed with Ryan Day. Speak your mind. Jim Harbaugh, I can't stand Ryan Day. He's been born on third base.

He's a crying baby. That's what I wanted to hear from Jim Harbaugh. Ryan Day, hey, Jim Harbaugh's a cheating bastard. The only reason he beat me the last two years was because he had our signs.

Just say those things, because that's the way that both gentlemen truly feel. Now, when we get to the game and when we get behind all the hype and all the buildup and all the animosity, I think there's three storylines heading into this one. Number one, the Ohio State defense has improved in a big time way from the last two years. The strength of this Ohio State team is their defense right now. So it's one thing to beat the snot out of Penn State. It's one thing for your defense to play well all throughout the season. But it means nothing and it goes right out the window and it shows zero progress if you can't find a way for your defense to be the story here up against Michigan. Number two, Harbaugh not being there.

And then also the pressure on Ryan Day, the coaches are a major storyline. Because I said this yesterday and Ohio State fans are now getting all mad at me on social media. All I simply said, it's amazing, you can't like have a conversation in this society anymore. All I said was no one would have thought in a million years Brian Kelly would have left Notre Dame for LSU.

It happened. No one thought when USC opened up that Lincoln Riley was going to leave Oklahoma. And all I said was with how sensitive Ryan Day is and how Ohio State fans last year before they came back and had a competitive game, which they should have won up against Georgia. Before that happened, all you heard for a week, you lost back to back years to Ohio State.

You got six, five career losses. Maybe Ryan Day isn't the guy. That's what people, that's what Ohio State fans were saying.

Not all, but some and a lot of them. So now if you lose three straight years in a row, you're telling me on Saturday, there won't be Ohio State fans, fair or not, calling for Ryan Day to get fired? Now, Ohio State's not firing Ryan Day. But if Ryan Day doesn't feel appreciated, if Ryan Day doesn't think he's getting the respect that he deserves from the fan base, and he thinks it's getting ugly, we know Texas A&M, even though he's highly compensated at Ohio State, we know A&M with that oil money could find a way to give him a blank check. I don't think it's going to happen. I said I don't think it's going to happen yesterday in terms of him leaving.

But I don't think it's the craziest idea in the world. And then the third storyline, I think this is the deciding factor of the game. It's J.J. McCarthy. All throughout the year, the reason why I thought Michigan was better than Ohio State, when you break down the teams, and I do believe Michigan's a more complete team, is I trusted J.J. McCarthy more than Kyle McCord. McCarthy has not played well as of late. The last two weeks with a chance to maybe go win a Heisman. Against Penn State, they ran, ran, ran the ball.

Against Maryland, they did not pop on the offensive side of the ball at the quarterback position. McCarthy last year made some big throws, made some big plays, and I really do determine McCarthy making a big play in this game, whether it's to Cornelius Johnson or whether it's to Colston Loveland, will ultimately determine if Michigan beats Ohio State for the third straight year in a row. So I can't wait for this game. I think Michigan's going to win the game. I think we're going to have a really good game this year.

That comes right down to the end. I could see this being a three-point game, four-point game, seven-point game. It's going to be a touchdown or less. Right now, I'm going to go Michigan 27, Ohio State 20. We'll take a break on the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio. One of my favorite college football analysts in the country is going to join us on the other side.

He's a former Ohio State defensive player, now is a superstar on NBC, and that is Joshua Perry, who will join us. I'm Snoop Dogg, and I'm giving up smoke. I know what you're thinking. Snoop, smoke is kind of your whole thing, but I'm done with it. I'm done with the coffin and my clothes smelling all funky. I'm going smokeless. Solo Stove Fix 5. They took out the smoke. Now you can have a nice blaze without any clouds ruining your day. Go smokeless.

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We're off at American-Giant.com with promo code WA23. The Zach Gelb Show is on the air across the nation on CBS Sports Radio. Here's Zach Gelb. Alrighty, this is Zach Gelb Show on CBS Sports Radio. We are all set for the game between Ohio State and Michigan. I fly out to Ann Arbor Friday morning, and I'll be watching the game on Saturday and can't wait for it.

Let's go out to the guest line right now and welcome in a national champion linebacker from the Ohio State, now a superstar in the media world for NBC, and that is our pal in Joshua Perry. Josh, always appreciate the time. Thanks for doing this. Happy Thanksgiving, and how are you?

Hey, happy Thanksgiving to you as well. I'm doing well. A lot of anticipation.

You know how this thing goes. I'm super excited for the game this weekend. So you're usually pretty good at keeping it neutral, and you've been afraid to call out Ohio State.

You've been afraid, you know, haven't been afraid to call out Michigan throughout the years. But with all that has transpired in the last few weeks and the build up to this game and how there's just more layers that unfold day by day as Ohio State guy, just what are you feeling about this game this time before Michigan goes out on the field against Ohio State on Saturday? Well, first off, man, the fan bases are at each other right now in a way that we haven't seen in a while.

That makes social media a little bit fun is some parts of the new X Twitter, as it was known, that people should probably avoid in the lead up to this game. But I think about the locker rooms at a time like this and for Michigan, it's a very unique situation with Jim Harbaugh available to coach throughout the week, but not there on game day. I'm sure those guys have an extra layer of motivation that they probably didn't need anyway going into that game. And I'm curious to see how they will leverage that. And then I think for Ohio State is, you know, they've heard it for two years now. You're not tough enough. You can't beat Michigan.

They've got your number. Now, they've got to go on the road with the quarterback who's never played in this rivalry and get the job done. And so I think for either one of these teams, there is plenty of motivation.

I also think that there are some points where they're looking at one another and saying, OK, we're going to have to overcome in this one if we're going to be successful and get the win. We all know the improvement, the Ohio State defense, the changes that the Ohio State defense has made this year and it's the strength of this team. The last two years, they got dominated in the trenches by Michigan.

It's no secret. But what are you seeing this time around from the Ohio State defense that maybe gives you confidence up against still a very good and lethal Michigan offense? Well, I think they're confident personally. I think they have a different expectation this year. I think last year they were really trying to feel their way through a new defensive system and they were giving up plays and they'd line back up.

And I'm not exactly sure they truly believed what they were running. And I think this year they really believe that. I can also look at a lot of positions where it feels like they've upgraded. And I don't think that the the edges are as good as people would have anticipated in terms of sack numbers. But they're guys that get a ton of pressure on the interior of the defensive line. They've been extremely disruptive all year long. And I think the secondary is where the biggest change has come.

They're going to be down late and ransom in this game. And I think that's huge at the safety position. But Davison Igbunosin is a guy who maybe a little too aggressive and covered sometimes, but he plays with an edge that wasn't there before. Denzel Burke is back to looking like a first round pick. And I really like what Sonny Styles provides in terms of some versatility on the defense there.

And so I think it's a combination of personnel upgrades, but also a combination of the belief that they have in what they're doing now. This has been Joshua Perry, a very open year for the Heisman Trophy, usually at this time of year, you have an idea of who's going to win it. I personally think that if Washington or Oregon wins the Pac-12, whichever one, whoever the quarterback is, Pennix or Nix, of the winning team in the Pac-12 will get the Heisman Trophy this year. We've seen a big push for Jayden Daniels out of LSU. I look, though, at Marvin Harrison Jr. He's so important to that team.

He is their identity on the offensive side of the ball. Harrison goes off for, let's say, 150 yards and two touchdowns on Saturday. Do you still think he has a chance to go win the Heisman Trophy?

Yeah, he's in it, if that's the case. And I'm not exactly sure he should win if I'm being completely honest about it. I think that his resume has spoken enough to him being a guy who should have an invite to New York.

I'm not a Heisman voter, but if I was, I'd have Jayden Daniels at the top of my list. And I really don't care about his team record. It's not his fault that he doesn't play defense, right?

I don't give a damn about the way that they have looked. What he has done this year has been remarkable. It's a similar thing for Marvin where people try to knock him. So like, oh, you know, in the Notre Dame game, he didn't his numbers weren't great. Well, he was, you know, busted up for part of that game. They used him as a decoy for a lot of the end of that game. It's like, well, against Minnesota only had three catches with 30 yards. I'm like, well, you know, they blanket cover him. Quite frankly, you know, if he had a Heisman quarterback throwing to him, maybe the conversation is a little bit different right now. And I think when you distill it down to watching the tape and seeing what he does, he's one of the best players in the country without a doubt.

So not exactly sure it's his trophy, but I do think that he's earned the right to be in New York. We know that Ryan Day has only lost six games as the coach of the Buckeyes. You, though, lose this game on Saturday.

That's three straight to Michigan. You already heard some of the conversation last year. Maybe they need to move on from Ryan Day. I don't think he's in danger of losing his job. But with that being said, maybe he starts to look elsewhere.

We've seen crazier things happen before in the sport. What would you say to the Ohio State fan on Saturday, if they lose, that's ready to move on from Ryan Day? Yeah, I mean, it's going to be tough, right? I don't think you're going to be able to really break through to anybody.

But you mentioned it, right? It'd be his seventh loss. It'd be only his third Big Ten loss. And the hard part is all three Big Ten losses would have come to University of Michigan.

But I don't know where you're going to go and find an upgrade. Like, I don't think you're going to go out in the market and find a coach that is better than Ryan Day. This is a program that's still recruiting well.

They're nationally relevant. And I would also take a look to next year where things kind of change a little bit. And you're going to have a path to the college football playoff every year.

And once you get there, you never know what happens. They were a missed field goal away from beating Georgia last year. And so I think the idea is, as long as your program is nationally relevant, it'd be really difficult to make that move. Now, if you see recruitings taking a nosedive and the quality of play on the field is getting to a point where you think next year, it might be that three, four or five loss type of team, then maybe you try to get ahead of it and make a change. But the way I see things going right now, it's really difficult to entertain any conversations that Ryan Day shouldn't be the head coach of Ohio State. How much do you think the sign stealing scandal impacted the results of these games the last two years in Ohio State and Michigan? I'll break it down like this is I think that Michigan found value in Connor Stallions and whatever his work was, because he had access to the head coach and the two coordinators on game day.

It's not something we typically see of a person, his role. I also do think that the ability to know what somebody is getting ready to do can help. If you know that there's an edge pressure coming, you're not going to roll or run a roll out right in the edge pressure. If you know a team is getting ready to run, then you're probably not going to call double coverage on their best wide receiver.

Those things are apparent. I also flip on the tape from the last two years and guys running in and out of gaps like they were doing for Ohio State when Donovan was breaking all those long runs. They can come from a sign stealing like there's nothing to me that indicates that they knew what was coming.

Ohio State's players just didn't execute. And I think there has to be an educated balance when we talk about this. People are up in arms because there there is an advantage.

That's why people try to decode signs the way that they do legally into step over the bounds of that certainly would bother me. But I'm not going to be the guy to sit here and try to make everybody feel better by saying, well, the only reason that ain't the truth is just not reality here. And I think people need to get over that part as well leading into Saturday and understand that the best team on the field on Saturday is going to win the football game who wins the game on Saturday. I got Ohio State winning and I think it's going to be an extremely close one, but I've seen a different demeanor from Ryan Davis here. I know we all joke about the Lou Holtz thing, but he's coached with a lot more emotion.

I think he's actually been much harder on guys in public when we can see the cameras on him than he's been in the past. And I think the play design has been on point pretty much all season long. I also think there's an opportunity for Ohio State's defense for the last two years of what they've heard coming out of this game. Michigan's offensive line maybe isn't as good as we had imagined.

And JJ McCarthy just hasn't looked like himself. And I think they've got a plan for that. I think it's a really close game. I heard you talking about it in the last segment. I don't think it even gets to twenty seven.

I could be completely wrong about that. But I'm looking somewhere in the range of, you know, like a twenty one to seventeen type of game, hard fought two teams that I believe are our national championship contenders that are running head first into each other on Saturday. Yeah, I really think this game comes down to the big play. And can Ohio State stop the big play this year?

Cornelius Johnson, Colston Loveland. We know what Quorum could do and it's his birthday. Donovan Edwards. And last year, to McCarthy's credit, there was a lot of questions. Can he elevate up against Ohio State? And last year he did. And he kind of put the team on his back and they didn't even have Quorum last year.

Yeah, it was definitely the case there. And like you can even boil it down to I'm glad you mentioned the big play. JJ McCarthy, 50 percent completion in that game. And typically when you hold a quarterback, especially as talented as he is, you win 50 percent completion, you win.

But it was the idea that they couldn't get guys on the ground. They let the ball go over their head and they can't do that. Wrapping up with Josh Perry right now, let me just get a few thoughts from you from the rest of the games this weekend. Alabama Auburn. Auburn just lost last weekend.

You look at Alabama. If they win the SEC, they win the Iron Bowl, then they go on to beat Georgia. Do you think they're a lock to be one of the last four teams standing in the college football playoff? They got to be. If they win the SEC, they got to be in.

And this is what I keep telling people. I was a part of one of these teams. I lost the game in week two, the year I won a national title in 2014. We lost the Virginia Tech team.

That was not very good. Just over 500. And if people held against us the idea that we lost in week two, we would not have been in the playoff picture. And I think that teams evolve and change.

And I'll do this just to make it as simple as possible. Beginning of the year coming in, Quinn Ewers, Heisman Trophy candidate now toward the end of the end of the year. I don't think anybody thinks Jalen Milrose is going to win it, but there are odds out for him to win that award because these are teams that are different.

And he's playing at a much higher level and that defense is playing with much more confidence in Texas looks a little bit different right now as well. I would just say that we would have to great Alabama on what we've seen over the back half of the year. And if they can beat Georgia, everybody thinks that Georgia's got a chance to win their third title in a row.

You'd have to put them in. But if Bama gets in, does that mean Texas should also get in? Because Texas, like you said, did beat Alabama back in week two and they beat them in Tuscaloosa by 10 points. So if it comes down to Bama or Texas, both won losses, both winning their conference champions, let's just say. Do you think Alabama still gets in over Texas? I would have to see how they did it, right? Like how good did Texas look in a conference championship game?

And I think that would be the deciding factor. I believe in head to head matchups to a degree and people are like, oh, why do we even play the games? I understand that week two was a long time ago.

A lot of things have changed since then. And that's that's my biggest point about it is you would have to grade Texas right now. If you think that they're one of the four best teams, you put them in. If you think Alabama is a better team in Texas right now, then I think they got to go in there. What about Florida State?

Because they just lost their quarterback, Jordan Travis. I don't know how to evaluate them, but if they win the next two weeks and they and they take down top 10 Louisville in the ACC championship, which I think Louisville is a good program, but no one thinks they're a great team this year. And you look at it, Florida State with the committee really keep out an undefeated team going into the playoffs. That's in the ACC. Yeah, it'd be really difficult. I could see a scenario where, you know, they beat Louisville and it's a 10-7 game and they would be like, this team is not it. Yeah. Well, everybody else played really well in that last weekend, right?

Like, I think that could be a realistic possibility. But once again, I don't think that we should hold the idea that Florida State is going to be playing with a backup quarterback against them because my year, Cardale Jones, third string guy. Right.

And he wasn't there for school. We all know that. We remember that great line.

I'll tell you that from a personal experience with Cardale. But, you know, part of part of how we got into, though, was the fact that we won 59 and nothing against Wisconsin. The Big Ten championship, those top 15 team at the time, right?

Like I test really mattered to those people. So all the picture that I'm trying to paint is we need to take a realistic snapshot of what each of these teams are after that last weekend. And then we have to pick who the four best teams are.

Well, let me ask you this then. Last I got Joshua Perry and we had Oregon State, Oregon this weekend, right? The Pac 12. We all want to see Oregon and Washington again, the Pac 12 championship, one of the best games, not the best game of the college football season. Who do you think the way this plays out the next two weeks that will be the last four teams standing?

Wow, it's a really good question. I think that if there's one team that could be Georgia would be Alabama. But Georgia is absolutely rolling right now.

So I got to roll with them. I picked Ohio State to win this weekend. So Ohio State's going to be in no doubt. It's hard for me because Oregon has not really played a tough schedule down the stretch, but they've looked really good doing it. And if I had to put my money in, I would certainly put it there on Oregon. And then this is the tough spot is do we like a Texas or do we like a Florida State the way that that thing stand?

And I would have to lean Florida State if they're able to get the job done. And they've got some aliens on offense to that can give people a lot of issues even with a backup quarterback. So it's going to be a unique picture here, man. Like I can't wait to see what this thing looks like because we got some opportunity for chaos here.

And that's the thing. I love the chaos and going to 12 teams next year. Put some bumpers up on this game where even though no one wants to lose Ohio State, Michigan, you could afford to lose and back your way in in a 12 team playoff. Yeah, that's the idea that I think is troubling for a lot of people is the feeling that it doesn't matter as much. But I would tell people and I think it's an obligation for some of us who cover the sport is it matters as much as we want to make it matter. It matters as much as we want to talk and celebrate. And so for that game, I know it's always going to matter like the SEC Championship. If it's two teams that are legit national title contenders, I think it really matters for a lot of people.

But yeah, it's definitely going to be different because we don't get to opine about the chaos scenarios and less content for the shows. I guess Joshua Perry appreciate the time. Keep on kicking ass and taking names for NBC.

Really enjoyed the coverage with this booth this year. Thank you. Hey, I appreciate you guys.

Take care. There you go. Joshua Perry joining us. It is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio.

Always love our conversations with him. We'll take a break when we come on back. We got to chat some NFL when we look at the second place teams in the league right now. Who is a team in the NFL that's not in first that maybe we should buy stock in.

And they're going to get a little bit of a run and maybe find a way to shock some people and get to the Super Bowl. Yesterday, we had Drew Brees on and I even said to him, like, I know you haven't played since 2020, but I got to ask you the question, would you have any interest potentially joining the Cleveland Browns? And he goes, oh, my wife's from Cleveland. Kind of laughed and then said, no, it's just not for me anymore.

I can't do it. Now, I guess he was on one of these car wash tours and he goes on a few other shows. I think he did this with Evan Cohen. And he revealed an interview with Evan Cohen that his right shoulder is so messed up that when he throws in the backyard with his kids and right. You always see those videos of Drew Brees thrown with his kids like a North football from a few years ago. But now he actually uses his left hand to throw because his right arm and right shoulder is so messed up. I wonder what Drew Brees is like throwing lefty now. But when he has catch with his kids, he now goes left handed because of how messed up from playing his right arm. He can't throw a football anymore, which is just wild.

So clearly he's out of the running, which I didn't think there was much of a running anyway to be the next quarterback of the Cleveland Browns. But most of the times with how this happens and we saw it in week one with the Jets. A lot of these teams are afraid to make a move where they complicate and they think they can't make a move because of what their system is. I think that's a bunch of nonsense.

Now, I'm not saying it's not important. You've got to get the quarterback up to speed and all that. But the last two years we've seen Baker Mayfield come right on over from the Panthers to the Rams and have success with barely knowing the playbook. And just this year you've seen Josh Dobbs get traded on a Tuesday and then on Sunday he comes in off the bench and lights it up for the Minnesota Vikings. So I don't think the Jets should just trot out Zach Wilson. They're not anymore. They're going to Tim Boyle and then eventually Trevor Simeon.

But it took forever and it didn't make sense why they waited. And for teams like the Bengals and the Browns. Now for the Bengals, I really do believe, even though the Bengals have a good defense, you got your Mark Chase, T. Higgins will see if you get healthy and you got Joe Mixon. I think the Bengals are going to bottom out the rest of the year.

Because without Joe Burrow, even though that team is good, that team's lost without Joe Burrow. And I have zero expectation for Jake Brown, who even when he came in up against the Ravens, he's still a competent. But on the flip side, the Browns at 7-3 in a year where really it's just the Chiefs and the Ravens are the only two teams that I feel good about in the AFC and both those teams have some flaws. If the Browns just had a quarterback, they could be a Super Bowl team, even with losing Nick Chubb. They got a great defense, a kick-ass defense, number one defense in the league. Myles Garrett's playing like he's an MVP. And on the offensive line, their line is really damn good even with injuries. But they just don't have a quarterback. Watson, even when he was playing, wasn't playing well.

But what are you going to do? You traded all the picks and you gave them the guaranteed contract. So now, you have Dorian Thompson Robinson, who showed up late, and P.J.

Walker, who's won you two games this year, but they don't believe in him. And that's why I said earlier in the week, they should be calling Brady and begging Brady every day. I don't think Brady eventually says yes, but outside of that, it doesn't seem like Matt Ryan has any interest. Tiki Barber, who works right down the hall, works with Matt each and every Sunday, I asked him, Hey, Tiki, you think Matt Ryan's coming back?

He said no for the Jets, and I asked him again with the Bengals and the Browns, and Tiki said no. So I don't know if there's an option out there, but if we have to really watch Joe Flacco in a few weeks get elevated from the practice squad and start for the Cleveland Browns, woof woof. And that's going to be really ugly. That's not going to be, here we go, Brownies, here we go, hoo hoo. That's going to be, here we go, Brownies, here we go.

Oh no, woof woof. That's what it's going to turn into. So it's a shame when there is such a great team and they have the ability, and we've seen this before in the sport, where there's been great teams and they just can't figure out the quarterback. But that's where the Browns are right now.

With that being said though, let's get into the bigger topic. When you look at these teams that are in second place right now in the NFL, and you go through the AFC, you know the Dolphins are in first place in the AFC East, the Ravens are in first place in the AFC North, Jacksonville in the South, Kansas City in the West, the Eagles in the East, the Lions in the North, Saints in the South, and then the 49ers in the West. When you evaluate all these second place teams, who's the team that you're most buying stock in? And right now, I guess in the NFC you've got to say the Cowboys. Now with that being said, I don't buy that the Cowboys are this great football team. I think the Cowboys have a limitation of just getting to the second round of the playoffs. And the Eagles are better in the NFC, the 49ers are better in the NFC, and then also you do have the Detroit Lions who are better in the NFC. But if this comes into a second place conversation and those three teams go down, let's say, the Cowboys are then that fourth best team in the NFC. Minnesota is going to be in the playoffs, their defense has improved under Brian Flores, offensively Josh Dobbs has been good enough, but I don't think you're going to see Josh Dobbs play at this great level down the stretch for the rest of the season.

They benefit from having an easier schedule. Atlanta, I can't trust that quarterback situation, and I can't trust Arthur Smith right now. And you look at Seattle, that's like the one team where I was really high on Seattle going into this year where I thought they could be the third best team. And I thought they were the third best team in the NFC behind Philly and behind San Francisco. Geno Smith just been two up and down for me this year. Now, that team, even though the running backs have been injured with Charbonnet and and Kenneth Walker, too.

They got the three wide receivers in DK Metcalf, Tyler Lockett and Jackson Smith and Jigba and their secondary is young, up and coming and really fun. But in this league, the quarterback matters. And even though I think Dak Prescott has his flaws, even though I think Dak Prescott is just stuck on being a good quarterback and he doesn't play consistently in the postseason, you saw it last year, beats the snot out of an eight and nine 49ers team, eight and nine Buccaneers team, and you go up against the 49ers. And that was a winnable game. And you even have to be great, but you couldn't even be average in that game.

You couldn't even be good. But if you ask me, Zach, would you rather have Dak Prescott or Geno Smith? It's not even close. Zach Prescott and the Cowboys are a better team than the Seattle Seahawks. So I guess in the NFC out of the second place teams led to sprinkle a few dollars on maybe a future, even though I would hold my nose doing so to go against everything I said about the Dallas Cowboys, you would put a few dollars down on the Dallas Cowboys. Now, in the AFC, I think it's tough because you have the bills at six and five.

You got the Browns at seven and three, the Texans at six and four. And now all of a sudden, Broncos, let's give them the edge over the Raiders. The Broncos are now a five and five team with Sean Payton and Russell Wilson starting to find something. They've been solid. They've been good. I'm not ready to say they're great.

I'm not ready to say that they're back, but they're showing that they're going to get a second year. And when you go through the Broncos, I'm still not believing in them and making the playoffs this year. And I know it shouldn't matter how you win in the NFL. But the last two weeks, you know, they did look like they were a better team than Buffalo. But McDermott, he cost them the game because Sean Payton was an idiot.

And he starts running his kicker after taking a kneel down and he misses the kick. But the McDermott had 12 men on the field. So in a game where it looked like the Broncos were about to snatch the feet from the jaws of victory, it ended up turning and they ended up snatching victory from the jaws of defeat because Buffalo matched their incompetence. But with that being said, even though Buffalo just lost to Denver, I would still trust out of all the second place teams in the AFC. If it came down to Buffalo and Denver, I would trust Buffalo more.

But I look at the other two spots. The Texans will make the playoffs. I'm confident in saying the Texans will make the playoffs. D'Amico Ryan's going to win coach of the year.

C.J. Stroud is going to win offensive rookie of the year. He may win MVP of the year. He may.

He'll be in the conversation. But I just kind of still give the edge in terms of the second place teams in the AFC to Cleveland and Buffalo. Because at least I know with Cleveland, it's going to be a dogfight every time you go up against them. And eventually there's going to be a game where the defense falls apart. You saw it against Indianapolis this year.

But those are going to be anomalies. Their defense is going to be so tough to defeat. It's just can they find any success on the offensive side of the ball with out there starting running back and without their starting quarterback. But for Buffalo, I'm not ready to jump back in on them yet.

And I thought it was laughable when Josh Allen is saying he's back after the Jets game. It's the Jets for crying out loud. I know you struggle with them the last two years, but it's still the Jets without Aaron Rodgers. That's without Rodgers there.

It's a different story. But for Buffalo, this is kind of the last stand for this nucleus the way that we knew it and this group. And if they don't improve in these final few weeks in the postseason, then when you look at the Buffalo Bills, you're going to have to say we need to retool.

We need to redefine what we're doing because they've been stuck on this rut. So take away all the first place teams in the AFC. I guess if you put a gun to my head, who's the team I trust the most still out of the second place teams? The AFC would be Buffalo just because of Josh Allen. But I would highly consider Cleveland because of their defense. And then in the NFC, it would be the Dallas Cowboys out of all.

Let me be clear. The second place teams in the NFC. Don't be tweeting me. Don't be sliding into my DMS. Oh, you know you actually believe in the Cowboys? Yeah. If you say Eagles goodbye, 49ers goodbye, Lions goodbye, then I believe in those drama Dallas choking Cowboys. You cockroaches.