AFC Beast (Hour 2)

The NFL season is inching closer and closer.

Who are the contenders and who are the pretenders? We have four downs to figure out your team's future. It's time now for First and Goal on the Zach Gelb Show. Zach Gelb here with you. Let's talk some Giants football right now. We'll do so with the Super Bowl MVP, the legendary Giants quarterback and still superstar in the studio show for the NFL on CBS.

That, of course, is Phil Simms. Phil, appreciate the time, as always. How you been? Doing well. Can't complain.

I will be honest. No preseason games this week, but at least we've got all the college games starting tomorrow to watch. Really excited about the season, as always. I think everybody is. Tired of hearing about the draft, the combine, all that other stuff.

Preseason was awesome, but it's over. Can't wait. I'm sure you're excited too. Gives you a lot to talk about.

No doubt about it. Labor Day weekend right around the corner. You've got football coming back and then also it helps when Bruce Springsteen is making a return to MetLife Stadium in the Swamps of Jersey.

It just got me wondering. Phil Simms, when he goes to a concert, who does he like to go to see? And do you bring along Boomer Esiason with you? No, I don't want to ruin the night by bringing Boomer along.

It'll be about him instead of who's performing. But, you know, listen, I don't go to many concerts anymore or anything. I like to go to little small places and listen to people when I do. And quite honestly, the 70s, 80s and 90s are, you know, that's what I like. That's all the music I heard. I think a lot of it, and I don't know if you're different, but we kind of fall back into all the music that we listened to in college. And, you know, no matter what, I'll never listen to as much music in my life now in a year that I used to. In college, it seemed like we played music constantly.

That's not the way it is now. So you weren't linking up with Aaron Rodgers this summer to go see Taylor Swift is what you're telling me? Well, listen, if he'd have called me, man, I definitely would have gone with him because the first time Taylor Swift is awesome.

But no, I did not go and I'm not a Swifty or anything like that. I do admire her work. And I tell you what, I love the way she treats her fans. The concerts are forever. Everybody that I know around here where I live has gone to a Taylor Swift concert.

And I have not heard one person ever complain about the performance of how long it was or anything like that. So good for her. So let's get to the Giants. Last year, Brian Daybell and Joe Shane brought a lot of excitement in year one back to this organization. You being one of the legendary Giants, what did you kind of take away from seeing what Daybell and Shane were able to do in year one? Well, year one, listen, that was an unbelievable year last year. It was orchestrated and managed by Brian Daybell just almost perfectly the whole season long. I think they outcoats many other guys or any other teams of the coaches, they outcoats them. And they did it was almost like smoke and mirrors, but they got it done to go what?

Nine, seven and one. Tremendous year. And you know, the problem with the Giants right now, a lot of improvements.

We'll talk about that. But it's the fact that it's the Cowboys, the Eagles. And then, you know, I watched the games and then watching Washington this preseason and I just go, they got a lot of difference makers, too. So it's gonna be it's gonna be a tough year. But I think the coaches and all that, I think they're they're ready to go and try to show everybody they can not only do what they did last year, but maybe do it better. And I always wonder how your two works, because when you make such a big impression in year one, teams catch up, teams adapt to what you're doing. And I just wonder how they're going to handle maybe some regression this year, if there is going to be any. Listen, it's a better team. I think it's it's easily a better roster to look at.

They have wide receivers now. Wow. I mean, last year I I'd watch every John game. I just it was amazing skill. Gosh, who?

Who's out there? Not only that, you know, besides the receiving group, I went down to practice. Jalen Hyatt's impressive. Paris Campbell's got a chance. I mean, Sterling Shepherd. And then they they bring back Wandell Robinson. He's back on practice and everything.

So that that is awesome. I think the offensive lines actually well is better, too, than it was last year. And Saquon Barkley, all I can say is I was a practice. I don't get like, wow, that easily because I've played and I've just followed the game so close. When Saquon Barkley ran by me a few times, he looked like he was totally on a different level of anybody chasing him or trying to get to him that he was. It's he doesn't run.

It's just a series of jumps. It's really impressive. So Saquon with a better offensive line, better receivers. Daniel Jones, bigger, stronger, throwing the ball. Awesome.

I mean, really, truly awesome. But all this is going to help Saquon and help the football team a lot. But, of course, you know, the defense, I would just have one question and they consistently pressure the quarterback. And I think to me, that's the biggest worry the Giants have.

Let's get to the next down. Phil Simms here with us. So we talk about all those offensive pieces. A big guy that they got this offseason was Darren Waller. We see the tight end role just continue to evolve in this league. Like you look at Kansas City, their number one pass catching weapon is Travis Kelce. We saw how Brady and Gronk worked for all those years. If Waller could stay healthy, I can't wait to see that connection with Daniel Jones.

Well, either can I because I know this. What little we saw in the preseason from Daniel Jones and, of course, Darren Waller is that you could see they can put the tight end or any of their players in position where they gain an advantage because of the formation, the movement, whatever it is. And Darren Waller, I'd never seen him in person until I went down to watch practice. And he's a giant. I couldn't get over.

I don't know what it was. His official height, six, seven. It looked it looked like he was six, 10.

Of course, I'm shrinking as I get older, but I don't care. He he was really impressive looking and physically. He looks great running well and he can catch it. So everywhere anybody that's ever coached Darren Waller, the one thing they've all said with right away, never seen this kind of talent with a tight end with his size.

And so that does a lot. And I think he's going to have a huge impact on this giant football team. And, of course, the offense, especially circling back to what you said about Saquon. We all know this is a big year for him. We know what he means to this football team. But then you get into the contract situation as well. How did you react to how that played out this summer? And do you feel like when you're watching Saquon, that's another reason why you think you're gonna get the best version of him because he's trying to show the Giants this year. All right.

You got to go pay me for the future. Well, yeah, there's no doubt that's part of it. You know, look, the thing is, he's a pro. He's a star. And he's still the biggest name on the Giants. When I went to practice, it was they say every jersey you looked at was Saquon. My grandson went with me.

Who do you think he was? Saquon. So the Giants fans love him.

They should. I think he's going to have a terrific year, of course, of running backs. It's always about can they stay healthy?

But again, my eyes didn't lie to me. And I know he'll be motivated, but he's going to run. It's not going to change. He's not going to be better because he's more motivated. You can't be in the shape like he's in and perform the way he has without being motivated just for the fact he wants to be great. And I'm excited for him. I hope it starts out well for him, all that. And I hope he puts the Giants in the position where they do, too.

We want to pay you more money. Have a great year and all this stuff. So it's going to be interesting. But I think as we've already talked, the line, the receivers, the tight end, the quarterbacks better, all that is all going to go into helping Saquon. Which son do I have to yell out of yours where your grandson is not wearing a Phil Simms jersey? Well, I didn't want him to.

Is that right? My daughter's oldest, he's seven years old, so he doesn't know much. He's enamored with Saquon and whatever the Giants and whoever's the hot guy that we all look at. And I'm sure the next year is he'll probably wear around here, be Aaron Rodgers, because we've heard a lot about him, too. So it's a young kid. I enjoy his enthusiasm. In fact, he's out the driveway right now playing basketball, pick up basketball.

He's seven. Well, there's about 10 kids at the driveway all around his age playing pickup basketball outside. Oh my gosh, I don't know if you're allowed to do this, but I pulled up and saw them all out there. And I just went, this is awesome. And I stood out there for about 15 minutes just watching them. And it was great.

It's good to see kids having fun like that. Let's get to the next down. Phil Simms here with us. So you talked about how this team is better. The quarterback took a big step last year, got paid like he is a franchise guy. But when you view Daniel Jones, where's Phil Simms his confidence that he is the next franchise quarterback for the Giants? It's very high. And it was high last year.

But of course now it's really high. And I think I'm pretty smart in this way is the fact that he has tremendous size. I mean, he is one big dude.

He's in. You can tell he changed his body through hard work during the offseason, but he didn't change it just because, oh, I want to look better. No, he did it because it's making him a better player. And what I followed in kind of dirty off season where he throws with a guy down, down south, a QB country, something like that. But he's a guy that does a really good job, but just watching throw, you know, as practice was going on, when they were doing drills and everything like that, to me, it was so noticeable that he was throwing the ball with more power controls it. Great. You know, it just doesn't get away from him.

It didn't last year. And, uh, the ball, the rotation of the ball is, it was incredible. I mean, I'm telling you physically, Daniel Jones is up there when you talk about NFL quarterbacks and just think about him last year. I listened to the radio, which I sometimes shouldn't do, but there they are.

And I'm not gonna say who they were commenting. Well, you know, Daniel Jones only threw 15 touchdowns. Shut up. That's what I want. I want to yell at the radio.

It probably did. Shut up. Oh, we're going to judge it all on touch. Well, you only do five interceptions.

How was that? Oh, he ran for over 700 yards. Oh, he maybe had the worst receiving group in the NFL and he still did what he did.

The giants went nine, seven and one. But you know, when you're a hater, which many people were, and I understand they, they can't turn it off. They cannot. It's well, we'll just see if he can duplicate.

I don't know if he's going to duplicate it. I just think, I'm just telling you, they're a better team. They're better roster and he is a better talent now than he was last year also. And here's the last thing that I of course have to talk about. Daniel Jones, a lot. He doesn't miss when you watch him play. I always say to him, tell me what game he really didn't, that he didn't play well or really well in last year. Well, I don't know.

I'm sure there's some, well tell me you're such an expert. And of course the answer is always nothing, but I thought he played really well last year for the giant. Probably one of his worst games was the playoff game or the two Philly games they played in. That was probably the toughest ones, but that might be because Philadelphia is pretty good too. Let's get to the final down. I love it.

Fired up Phil Sims here with does. So I heard Peter Schrager the other day on good morning football say the giants are his dark horse, super bowl contender. Did you come to see this team being a super bowl contender this year or not ready yet? I'm not ready. I mean, look, it's possible. They're going to start what, two rookie corners. So that's, that's pretty tough and everything.

But like I said, I think if I, it's funny, I don't have any issues now with the office. It's amazing what they've done with it. But the big thing is, like I said, right off the top and they get to the quarterback and if you can't pressure the quarterback enough in this league, even bad quarterbacks will tear you apart. You know, corners need help and you put them out there in the island every once in a while, but if they're not good enough, you can't do it as much as you want and be aggressive.

So I look at this. When you talk about the giant, they really need Kayvon Thibodeaux and be a star. Second year NFL tougher pass rushers early because there's so much to learn and the tackles are good and they're huge and we'll see, but watching him, just what I did in practice and a little bit that he didn't play much of preseason, but the speed and the quickness and all that is there. Now he's just got to apply it and make it work during games. But I think he's a huge key for the giant success this year. And he has to have a breakout season.

I couldn't agree more. Alrighty, Phil sins before we let you run Rogers in the summer, it's by Steve Young said it to me the other week. It's the summer of Aaron Rodgers and he's kind of jealous of it. He's been handling New York the right way. Any advice to Aaron Rodgers and how to deal with the Big Apple? Oh, look, Aaron Rodgers can deal with about anything and you know, I don't know.

I will just say this about him. You know, he is, of course, a special talent and it's not going to be what everybody expects. I think they're going to control the game that they're playing. He is, he knows how to do that.

He knows how to look and feel the game and how he should play accordingly. In other words, hey, our defense is really struggling. I got to be more aggressive on the offensive side to get some more points or things are going well.

You've got a small lead. Now it's protect, do all the things that he is really great at. And I mean, this is a compliment.

You got to be careful with words sometimes. He is a terrific, terrific game manager and he might be one of the best throwers I've ever seen in history, throwing the plays that we can't miss the 10 and 12 yards and under. If the guy's got a little window that is open, you can't miss it. He makes all the ordinary plays. And of course, every once in a while he's going to make a special play, but I think he's going to be, it's not, he's not going to throw for 5,000 yards. I don't even know if he'll throw for 4,000 yards. The numbers might not be tremendous.

That doesn't matter to me. It's about managing what he's doing on the offensive side and how it fits in with the team and what's the strength of the jets. You know, tell me defense D O and the pass rush.

Oh my gosh. It's just line them up and run as hard as you can and go into the quarterback. And after two downs come out, we'll give you a little break and we'll send another wave of pass rushers. It might be overall one of the best, if not the best defensive lines rushing the passer and the depth that I've ever seen.

I mean, I've never seen anything like it, but it holds true during the season. With all that being said, they're in a loaded conference, they're in a loaded division, right? You got Miami, you got the bills. I don't think the Patriots are contender to win the AFC East, but do you feel like the jets win the AFC East this year? Well, I think they got a great chance and you know, I listen, I don't think anybody in the AFC East is going to go 15 and two or 14 and three. I don't know if they'll go 12 and five.

It's going to be tough. The whole conference is loaded with talent. The quarterbacks are insane.

So, you know, you just, it's, you know, even Kansas City being all day, everybody talks about them. Hey, it's going to be rough for them too. It's going to be rough for everybody because there's just so much competition in the AFC and so many quarterbacks that even if their team's not with them, they still have a chance to beat you.

Team's playing bad, but the quarterback can disguise a lot of that, especially when we talk about the quality of the guys in the AFC. Well, we can't wait to see you next weekend, NFL on CBS for the first NFL Sunday. In the meantime, I hear you're big in the podcasting world now with your son.

Is that right? Well, we're going to do it. Yeah, we're going to do it. In fact, I just saw him a few minutes ago. I didn't get a chance.

I said, I'm a, we're going to throw one out there next week. I've got some things that are bothering me that I just might have to air air them out. Some hot takes coming from Phil Sims. You got to love it. Oh yeah.

Yeah. That's what's great. Hey, listen, that's, that's why I love doing radio interviews too, because it's a little more freeing and I'm, you know, I'm not, come on, we got to go to commercial right away.

You know, so, but I can say things that I'll never get a chance to probably say on TV. So it's, what's great. And I really appreciate you having me on.

Yeah. Phil always great to catch up with you. Thanks so much for doing this. Have a good day.

Thanks again. Well, we do have to get to commercial break. It is the Zach Gilp show on CBS sports radio.

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You're listening to the Zach suspect show. So we know the AFC East on paper is the best division in the NFL, but in terms of who's going to win the division. It's also probably the most intriguing as well. Like you look at the AFC North I think the Bengals are going to win that division but it could still be a really good division. You look at the AFC South the Jaguars are easily going to win that division as long as Trevor Lawrence is healthy. The AFC West there's intrigue but we all know Kansas City's going to win that division it's just how many other teams can they get into the playoffs. The NFC East I know the Cowboys are gonna be good I'd be shocked if the Eagles don't win the division I know how long they haven't had a repeat division winner. NFC West you know that's the 49ers division to lose. The NFC North intrigue. You know I think most people would say it's out of the Lions or the Vikings don't be surprised the Packers go make a run.

And the NFC South we don't know who's going to win that division but it's not intriguing because the winner of that division could very well be eight and nine like the Tampa Bay Buccaneers from a year ago. So I look at this AFC East and I know that a lot of people could say well Zach you gave the Bengals the benefit of the doubt why aren't you giving the Bills the benefit of the doubt? Because this is the first time we've seen people actually question the Buffalo Bills and we'll play that audio with Tyler Medekevic in just a bit from yesterday because he's a member of the Buffalo Bills and we have that audio ready to go well let's just play it.

You have my first question in there Hickey? Okay let's listen up hear the audio and then we'll react to it. Last year you guys were everyone's Super Bowl pick now I know you hear the noise people are questioning your coach they're questioning your quarterback and wide receiver relationship people are saying the Bills are no longer a Super Bowl contender what's your message Tyler to people that are doubting the Buffalo Bills entering this season? Oh that's just comical you know what I'm saying all that nonsense you try not to pay attention to it and stuff like that and and so we're just getting ready for the season you know like I said before so it's a long year man and you just got to make sure you guys are gelling at the right time hitting on the right time all phases of the game and then that's an important thing you know you got to stay healthy too it's a tough every week is a grind every week is a battle doesn't matter who you're playing you know you're in short dog fights so we could sustain that stuff all year you know we'll be in a great great position by the end of the season. And you guys have been right there for the last few years you talked about the health that's the biggest part of this if you guys are healthy what type of football team do you feel like you have?

Oh I mean man we got a special team you know I think if anything it's been unfortunate the last three years you know how every year has ended but I mean we got such a core group of guys still here and that have been through the ringer and stuff like that and and just we really just tried to learn from it man and I think we got the right guys in the building right now that are just all bought in ready to do whatever it takes you know what I'm saying they don't want to let the guy next to him down but hopefully we can hold up that Super Bowl championship at the end of the year. So that's from Tyler Medekevich who once again is a Bill's captain who does a great job on the special teams but like I'll just throw back out that AFC East AFC North stuff the AFC East got better this offseason the Dolphins got better the Jets got better you look at the North the Ravens got better the Browns you're not gonna have Deshaun Watson out to start the year and the Steelers look like they're ready to take that next step too but when you look at the AFC East to the AFC North the last few years the Bengals have dominated that division the last few years in the AFC East the Bills have dominated the division. Now people are doubting the Bills people aren't doubting the Bengals I think a big part of that is because they've been Super Bowl AFC championship game. The Bills went from AFC championship game they blew it in the divisional round up against the Chiefs and then last year they just got steamrolled by the Bengals in the divisional round after a very lackluster performance up against the Miami Dolphins in the wild-card round too. So I'll just ask you this Hickey and you've been someone that's usually been a little bit more critical than Buffalo than others do you think it's fair that people are not giving the Bills the benefit of the doubt at least in the AFC East entering this season forget the the chase to the Super Bowl and representing AFC just the AFC East because you know maybe there's still the majority pick if we put out a poll question but there's been a big push for the Jets especially with Aaron Rodgers there and there's also been a lot of believers in the Miami Dolphins though. I would say the Bills still deserve the benefit of the doubt in the AFC East alone they still should be the team to be in the East again that's a division that they've owned and while other the other two teams have gotten better for sure the Bills to their credit so far proved it. So there's one thing to say that they still should be the pick for most people but are they your pick do you do you have confidence where there's one thing to say they should still be the favorites and I like the way that you put it the Bills should still be the favorites in the AFC East but do you have confidence that they'll definitely win that AFC East?

They're my pick yes. And you usually are not very kind to Josh Allen and also Sean McDermott through the years. I like to think I'm realistic and I'm being realistic and truthful in this very prognostication. They're gonna win the AFC East I will not go well believe it there. But you saying you like to be realistic with the Bills at one point you were saying Carson Wentz was better than Mr. Allen. I was caught in a fit of rage when John and Taylor ran for five touchdowns against them and I was was I feeling it yes and I think the quickest I've ever walked back anything on this show was that comment or was like less than 24 hours I apologized to the audience.

Now that was that was a bad take and I do recognize I said it but also I recognized that right away walked it back. So I kind of wake up every day and have a different feeling on this where the Bills should still be the favorite to win the AFC East but then one day I'll wake up I'll say it's the Dolphins the next day I'll wake up I'll say it's the Jets I'm not saying it's my Patriots because I don't believe the Patriots have a shot or a prayer to win the AFC East but then part of me does go right like how many times do we usually praise a team and say that this team's gonna be great and there's so much hype on a team and that team craps the bed and isn't ready for the moment. But then it also works the other way too where there's a lot of times where teams get too much criticism and too much blame and there's reasons to be critical of the Bills and to give them blame for what happened the last year but then it goes to a different level and there is part of me Hickey that this offseason even though there's a reason to be concerned about the Bills it's got taken to a level where part of its kind of spiraled out of control and whenever a team receives that much doubt and they and say what you want about the Bills not meeting the the expectations the last few years they've been close they've been right there and don't you kind of feel as if eventually if you get doubted that many times you still have a good roster you usually prove people wrong so that could factor into the conversation as well. That's the one division where I look around say right now AFC West it's the Chiefs, AFC North it's the Bengals my pick, the South it's the Jaguars, the NFC East Eagles, NFC West forty-niners, NFC North I had some hesitation but I'm going with the Vikings, NFC South I'll take the Falcons you could basically you know have four teams on a board or whatever finger you put on that board and that's the team you could pick that way and blindfold someone but in the AFC East I really wonder when I make the official predictions next week where I'm going to land because for most of this offseason I've been dolphins are gonna win this division I said that a thousand times on this show and then it's like you have the Ramsey injury. Armstead I know he avoided a major injury but how healthy is he going to be they didn't go out and get Jonathan Taylor you know there's questions about Mike McDaniel the Jets the Jets have grown on me where I remember back when they first got Aaron Rodgers I said they're not a Super Bowl contender where I only have five teams I look at as Super Bowl contenders it's the Chiefs it's the Bengals still the Bills because they've been close and then the Eagles and the 49ers but the Jets now after getting Dalvin Cook the offseason that they've had Aaron Rodgers being like the perfect leader for this team that monster defense that they have the Jets are absolutely a Super Bowl contender so that pick that I'm gonna eventually make in the AFC East next week I just I truly do not know who I'm going to pick and I keep on looking back at the bills and something that makes me want to pick the bills is I feel that there was a certain amount of of criticism that they should have got but now it's gone to a level where I think we're at like a ridiculous rate where there's been too much criticism of the Buffalo Bills and maybe just because that was a team of everyone believed in last year and that's what makes it more difficult is when everyone believes you and then you disappoint that makes the outcry and the frustration and the offseason narrative just grow over and over and over and larger and larger and larger and exponentially when you have so many months to talk about a team that a lot of people believed in and ultimately not only do they come up short they came up short in what was an embarrassing fashion there's one thing to believe in the bill strike to win the division it's a whole other thing when you talk about playoffs now can they get through and break through and get to the Super Bowl for the first time the Josh Allen era totally different but yeah I will at least with the Jets is is the Jets belief in part of hard knocks no are you buying in from what HBO is pumping out well the thing with hard knocks and I said this for years the last few years hard knocks is better on social media now that it is when you watch the entire thing I thought you maybe had like one good episode of hard knocks and I find it funny how all robert salad did was bitch about hard knocks he looks great on hard knocks that was such a boss move last night they had him roll up with the Sopranos theme song so that guy all he did was cry and bitch and complain about hard knocks he looks great on the show I think for if you look at one person on hard knocks that it did wonders for it was robert salah even after the first episode when he basically looked like he was riding shotgun with Aaron Rodgers then he had that fiery speech he brings in that guy that has the the one player that was Nicole Hartman predict the score last night he's got the Sopranos music and he's looked great on hard knocks but I wouldn't say my belief level in the Jets is because of hard knocks it's really because ironically in a league now that doesn't care about the running back position they've done everything this year they get Rogers and they go out there they get Dalvin cook and you have now Breece Hall back offensive line a little bit of a concern no doubt about it that's gonna decide their season but defensively you just heard Phil Simms say they could ask to the quarterback and you have Garrett Wilson I let what 1100 yards last year with no quarterback and you had the reigning defensive rookie of the year as well in sauce Gardner with one of the better interior players in the league and Quinn Williams so there's a lot of reasons to believe in the Jets so I wouldn't say that it was tied to hard knocks though but you know I'm fascinated by with you for really the Matthew Stafford stuff which you were all on where when Matthew Stafford goes to the Rams you said folks we just saw it with Tom Brady Brady picks a new team that win a Super Bowl that's why you pick to your credit I'll give you your praise for this one you were adamant that the Rams are gonna win the Super Bowl so Matthew Stafford is not the same quarterback as Aaron Rodgers we know Aaron Rodgers a better quarterback that's what surprises me with you with Rogers is you were so confident in Stafford who's the lesser player why can't Aaron Rodgers do what Matthew Stafford did with the Rams I think the Rams have more talent and I think Matthew Stafford again is someone that I would trust in more like I just I don't think Aaron Rodgers changing his ways he's someone who can dress up on the camera and make things seem one way in reality he's another I don't think he's gonna with a lot of pressure on this year come through in the clutch because that's also another thing he struggled with big time last few years is playing well and it matters most I don't think you will but okay so that's fair the playoff argument but it's honest if Stafford had any success before that like at least at least Rogers has won a Super Bowl my thing with Stafford is I thought he's a better quarterback and the lines are taking him down like the Lions are preventing him from having more success and being and getting more playoff wins and getting the playoffs more but he's still not a better quarterback than Rogers I'm not saying yes what's that I think going to a new team I don't think it's just easy to say oh you're on a new team for the first time your career like anything's gonna go smoothly I don't think it's the case with Aaron Rodgers I think Matthew Stafford adjusted better and again I like the the team at the Rams a lot better than I do the Jets now the Rams accomplished more but what made I'm just wondering here asking what made the Rams a much better team than the team the Jets have right now because the Rams with Jared Goff who they felt like they were kind of nurturing along went to the second round of the playoffs the Jets were 7 to 10 so it's you know the Rams again were way more loaded and a playoff team where the Jets were again it's in the mix like in week 15 but but you look you do look at that roster right Aaron Donald the best defensive play in the league at the time you have Quinnen Williams who's one of the best interior defense alive in a league you have more names at the at pass rush and I know they had ended up getting Von Miller but I'm talking on the team formed back engine Jalen Ramsey right who's a great secondary play of sauce garden who just won Rookie of the Year Cooper Cup turned in to be this great wide receiver all-time great season with the Triple Crown Garrett Wilson just had 1,100 yards with Zach Wilson you have more established running backs than what the Rams had where you look at the Jets you got Dalvin Cook and Breece Hall now that offensive line I'll give them credit it's better than what the Jets have and that's a big factor and you know Whitworth was was phenomenal but I don't think the talent discrepancy between those two teams is that much different and I'm not telling the Jets are gonna go win the Super Bowl but I look at this Jets team the sky's the limit for them it really is for this upcoming season and I find this funny to how this works all throughout the summer I wouldn't call the Jets Super Bowl contender you were like the Jets are Super Bowl contender and now we have kind of reverse roles where I'm making the case for the Jets and you're kind of saying why you don't believe in the Jets I never said the Jets are a Super Bowl contender I've never been on them I've been out since they won but you've said Super Bowl or bus for them that should be expectation for them yeah I think anything short of that is a failure but that doesn't mean I like I don't think they're coming anywhere near that but you get Aaron Rodgers it's not like oh we went into the first round playoffs that's a great success no it's not you got a 39 year old quarterback you're going all in going to the playoffs so the first time since 2010 is not a success expectations for what you should think or what you would call a success versus like how I think they're actually going to do to me or two different things act let me ask you this at the end of the season how do you think we're talking about the Jets what are the Jets accomplished well they're definitely going to the playoffs so hickey will be wrong on that when he says the Jets are missing the playoffs I agree with you you know look it's hard to predict only because when once you get to the playoffs it's about matchups partially luck mm-hmm you got to look at weather conditions sometimes but they have the guy I mean look you know we all thought that Buffalo was probably the most complete team and look what happened there so they have the guy the question is and the guy a quarterback that is the question is is he still at the top of his game and does he have to be like if let's say Aaron Rodgers is you know let's say 85% of what he was in his prime in Green Bay so when times better than what exactly absolutely yeah but is that good enough and does it have to be good enough because the Jets defense looks like it's going to be so good and and they look they do have a lot of weapons on offense too so but you know the line is obviously a concern but can that defense make take pressure off him where he can afford a little drop at his age and I know it doesn't always work this way when you go from one season to the next but you would assume bringing in Aaron Rodgers bare minimum is a three-win improvement right oh yeah absolutely I know there's other factors like the divisions really good that you know the rest of schedule got some big marquee games the schedule to start the year is tough I gotta think that this is bare minimum a 10-win team I was going to say if they don't win 10 it's a huge disappointment I mean and that's and that's a 10 I mean I'm we're looking we're look we're both I think we're both thinking that they need to win more than 10 11 12 I think it's just get to the playoffs like like like put it this way I don't think just getting to the playoffs is a successful season for the Jets but you look back at that Brady first year with the Bucks mm-hmm they didn't win their division they were not humming for most of the season yes it's all about it's about being the right team in the playoffs being the right team in the right time so if they win ten games I think some people be like oh that's disappointment but then they get the playoffs and that defense is healthy and Rodgers is but if you don't you're not making the playoffs most likely not it you have to hold your breath yeah but there's a lot of years when we say this conference the best conference and then there's two or three teams that don't mean those I think all right the Chargers are knocking on the door of the playoffs yeah you still have the Chiefs you know whoever angles bills bangles bill opens in the mix yes Ravens you know you figure the Ravens are due for a bounce back and the Steelers have looked good yeah and the Jags will in the division you know yeah so there you go it is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio we will take a break when we come on back let's start out a dark horse Super Bowl candidate each Peter Shrager today on Good Morning Football said it's the Giants interesting you will fail so what everybody does but your gym your watch your yoga pants they pretend you won't so when you miss a day eat the pancakes give up on a workout you failed seriously what the hell we're body we've been a part of that too but not anymore at body we're rejecting perfection and embracing reality not in a pizza Monday kind of way in a loving your whole life kind of way in a this workout is fun and it's okay if I take a week off kind of way in an I'm eating healthy it's okay if I indulge kind of way in a I like myself no matter what kind of way yeah you will fail we all will but we're not gonna let that be the end you see that we're already making progress so let's keep going we are body start your free trial at body.com that's B o di.com you're listening to the Zach Gelb show it is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio so I was listening or watching Good Morning Football earlier this a.m. and Peter Shrager they were doing a segment of Dark Horse Super Bowl contenders and sometimes you throw out a team and it's like is that really a Dark Horse team but his was a wow wow wow moment where he goes with the New York Giants and even Phil Simms when he joined us about 50 minutes ago I was like yeah I don't see that one either and he's optimistic about the Giants this season so when we go Dark Horse Super Bowl contender I've said mine throughout the summer but Hickey who is your Dark Horse Super Bowl team for this upcoming season as a chance to be going to Las Vegas and joining us there Cleveland you're welcome fire it up the Cleveland Browns Dark Horse start singing you get Ken comment on the line no cuz I don't want to see the Shawn Watson in the Super Bowl Super Bowl make that case because that is a wild team there's no doubt about even though the team's loaded with talent that is still a Wow team if you're looking for a Dark Horse Super Bowl contender a lot of talent for them obviously the problem has been quarterback and notice Shawn Watson has been out for a year and a half look last year I think the five games he played is all by knocking the rust off getting used to the offense I take nothing away from that in the sense of concern it looked all good we think a lot of that was trying to get on some sort of the same page and basically have to be the preseason for him for this season specifically when last time we saw just Shawn Watson I gave us 20 20 he's one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL I get the Texans are 4 and 12 he was great everything else around was probably won four games that's a dumb radio caller take plenty and plenty people have said that it's so stupid but anyway anyway he gets back to that level this team is good enough to they can go absolutely go to the Super Bowl and win it good offense line good run game good defense get after the quarterback good secondary which is important in an AFC with Burrow and Mahomes and Herbert and Lawrence now and Tua and Aaron Rodgers now he had some good teams with the Texans I know that we remember the end with that with the four wins but what was that lead that he had up against the Chiefs 24-nothing yeah and his fault is that well I know you could blame Bill O'Brien right with with the coaching but you're still quarterback of a team that choked that lead so I think that there's two questions with Deshaun Watson can he get back to elite form and then also when the games matter more it's one thing to get to the playoffs which would be a win for the Browns this year but can you elevate that game to get to a Super Bowl and then go out there and win a Super Bowl I my dark horse Super Bowl team I think I don't even need to say it and you could tell me who it is with how much I've talked about this team this summer any idea is you want to take a guess here I've talked about this team a lot is it the Seattle Seahawks yeah it's easily the Seahawks because if you're gonna do a dark horse team you got to do in the NFC you have to in my opinion because the Eagles of the 49ers are expected to get there but then it's that chase for who's the third best team and that could easily be Seattle let me just ask you about two teams now both these teams people are picking them to make the playoffs but no one's picking them to go to the Super Bowl would you consider the Ravens a dark horse Super Bowl contender like I'm not asking your opinion the Ravens if I said the Ravens you consider that a dark horse um probably yes I'll say yes because most people don't think Lamar can win a Super Bowl I'm not one of those people and how about the Chargers I think most people expect the Chargers to be in the playoffs but not a Super Bowl would you consider them a dark horse Super Bowl contender yeah yeah it's tough of the playoff team to name a dark horse but a popular playoff team which both of those are there's a difference being a playoff team and then a Super Bowl team like the Giants last year were a playoff team they were in the second round of playoffs doesn't mean people are picking them to go to the Super Bowl and similarly with Seattle as well who lost in the first round to the 49ers all righty Zach Gilp show CBS Sports Radio coach Mike Sanford jr. will join us next college football time