NFL Team Disrespect? (Hour 4)

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That's BetterHelpHELP.com slash positive. And I asked Kenny Clark, with everyone talking inside the NFC North about the Lions and how great they're going to be this year, and the Vikings with what they did last year in the regular season, winning 13 games, and now Aaron Rodgers is not there. If he feels like the Green Bay Packers, da-na-na-na-na-na, go Pack, go, are being disrespected. Yeah, 100%, but that's cool. I like it that way. This has been one of the first off-seasons where we ain't really been getting the credit, getting the love. Everybody says, Aaron, that determines the factor, whether we win or lose. So we love it, man. We're going to embrace it. And when the season gets here, we'll see how everything stacks up.

But we're excited about it. So based off that, I'm going to need a little NFL music and we're going to go into teams that Hickey has kind of pulled. And we're going to see if they're getting disrespected in my eyes heading into this season with what I think the conversation is surrounding that team.

Go ahead. The Green Bay Packers. Yeah, I think they're getting disrespected because I think people believe that the Packers are going to suck this year.

And I don't think that's going to be the case. They did not have good quarterback play last year. I know Aaron Rodgers is a phenomenal quarterback, but last season he was no bueno. And you need that offensive line to be healthy. You got two really good running backs. You have a defense that's been inconsistent, but I like what they have up front with Kenny Clark.

And on the back ends, you got Jair Alexander. And this division, the Bears aren't going to be any good. The Lions still got to prove it, even though they were improved last season. And you look at the Vikings, I just don't know how much they're going to regress.

Like, is it a little bit or is it by a lot? Neither would surprise me. And you're also in a bad NFC. You know, if I ask people right now, do they think the Packers could go nine and eight and be a wildcard team?

I think the overwhelming majority would say no. And I don't think that's far fetched. So I do believe the Packers because the wildcard is Jordan Love and none of us really know what Jordan Love's going to be. I do think they're getting some disrespect heading into this year. The New England Patriots.

No, I don't think they're getting disrespected. I think people, they enjoy seeing the Patriots fall. Not me, I'm a fan, but they enjoy seeing the Patriots fall because of how dominant they were for two decades in the NFL and how many people hate Bill Belichick. But no one should be intimidated by this Patriots team on paper this year. Now Belichick is still a really good coach, but that roster doesn't intimidate you. Like they'll have a solid defense offensively. Mac Jones will be better than last year, but you still have not followed the trend that Buffalo has put out there. And also what the Eagles have put out there is when you have a quarterback that we really don't know what he's going to be. And the Eagles didn't even necessarily think that Jalen Hurts is going to be as great as the way that he played last year. And Buffalo was starting to question Josh Allen.

What do they do? They got those guys number one wide receivers, and then both their careers did take off. For Mac Jones, I don't know if he could be great. I don't think he's as bad as the way that he played last year, but it's a failure to put him in the best position possible to succeed without getting him a number one wide receiver. So for people thinking the Patriots are not going to make the playoffs, I think that is a more than fine take and one that I happen to agree with this year. The Cleveland Browns.

I don't think they're getting disrespected. I think people acknowledge the talent on that team. I think right now, because of how loaded the AFC is, it's more probable than not that they're on the outside looking income playoff time. But I think we all look at Cleveland and say that's a loaded roster, but there's some unknowns because I don't know where the relationship is at between Kevin Stefanski and Deshaun Watson and Stefanski's on the hot seat.

And also, I still don't know how much rust there is to still knock off for Deshaun Watson now coming back for what will be his first full season as the Browns starting quarterback. The Dallas Cowboys. I think the level of disrespect is fair for Dallas Hickey, where I think everyone acknowledges that there'll be a double digit win regular season team this year. There'll be a playoff team, but I don't think anyone is intimidated by Dallas. Even they have a really good defense and offensively, they are a team that until they show it in a big game, I'm just not going to believe that they're going to get the job done. Do you think the Cowboys are getting disrespected? I think it's appropriate where most people say the Cowboys are good, not great. The Cowboys are a team that could win a bunch of games, but no one's going to be expecting them to get to a Super Bowl.

Not at all. Yeah, it's accurate. That's exactly who they are and they've given you no reason to believe. Come playoff time against an actual good opponent, not an under 500 team. They actually win that game. So the Cowboys are who we thought they were to take a line from the late great Denny Green. The Minnesota Vikings.

Yeah, mild disrespect. I don't think there's any reason to say that the Vikings are a great team, but how everyone automatically puts the Lions in at winning that division, I'm not ready to do that. Like I see the argument for why the Lions could win that division, but the Vikings did win 13 games last year. I know they won all those one score games and that's not a recipe for success for long term, but Kirk's a solid quarterback. He's a good quarterback. You still got Justin Jefferson. It doesn't make sense to get rid of Dalvin Cook, but my biggest question really isn't the offensive side of the ball with the Vikings. It's defensively. They got rid of a lot of players, so it's probably right to move on. You bring in a new defensive coordinator Brian Flores. That defense has been horrible recently.

Can you just get them to be average? If you get them to be average, they could be a playoff team. I think there's some mild disrespect because I think a lot of people believe that the Vikings are to completely fall off and I don't think that's going to be the case this year. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Buccaneers.

I think that level of disrespect is fair. Well, I think the perception about Tampa Bay is one that I totally believe in. They were eight and nine last year with Tom Brady. Tom Brady's no longer there.

So Baker Mayfield is going to be playing. Sure, you have Mike Evans, you have Chris Gobwin. Tristan Wurst is really good on the offensive line.

We'll see what Ryan Jensen can do coming off the injury. Defensively, there's still some pieces there. You're in a bad division, but there's a great unknown at the quarterback position and if you were only able to win eight games last year with Tom Brady, I don't see how anyone believes that this team could be better this year with the GOAT no longer there. So I don't think they're getting disrespected. I think that is just the reality of that team. The Miami Dolphins.

You know what? I actually think they're getting disrespected and hear me out on this one because I think most people acknowledge that the Miami Dolphins are a good team, but Hickey, not what you think, but if you had to poll the nation and if you had to speak for the nation, if I asked the nation who the two best teams are, not who you think are, but the two best teams in the AFC East, who do you think the answer would be or which two teams do you think the answer would be? It would probably be the Bills and Jets. I agree.

Probably. I think it would automatically, whether it's a Jets one or the Bills two or the Bills one and the Jets two, I think most people would say the Bills and the Jets. And Miami last year almost defeated Buffalo in the playoff game with Skyler Thompson and that was in Buffalo. They beat Buffalo one other time that was down in Miami. That was the first time I think two actually got hurt, if memory serves me right, with the concussion going back to last year. Or didn't they tell you that was the back injury, right?

That was the game where they said it was actually a back injury and not a concussion. So you look at Miami, I think they're right on par with the potential of that team that the Jets have and then also that the Bills have. So I think they're right there, the Miami Dolphins, and I think most people put them as the third team in the AFC East and I don't think that's right. The Baltimore Ravens. Well, let me ask you this, because I don't have a real feel nationally what the conversation is about the Ravens.

Because once Lamar got paid, we kind of stopped talking about the Baltimore Ravens. If you had to take a guess, what is the pulse on the Ravens entering this season if you wanted me to accurately say if they're getting disrespected or not? I would say the average person would put the Ravens in the playoff mix. I think that's saying definitive playoff team, but let's say six to nine range. Barring Joe Burrow getting hurt. We all know the Bengals are going to win that division.

And then after that, I think there's a great argument. And right now I would pick the Ravens as the second best team in the AFC North, which is one of the tougher divisions in football. I don't think they're a slam dunk to make the playoffs. I think they're, if you tell me that the fifth seed would not be shocked. If you tell me they're the seventh seed, or sixth seed would not be shocked to tell me they missed the playoffs.

I wouldn't be shocked. And that just speaks to how good this conference is. How they improve the wide receiving room, but helps a big factor when you look at Lamar, JK Dobbins, Odell Beckham as well. I think if you're going to tell me that they're right there in the playoff mix, that's a fair, fair portrayal of the Baltimore Ravens. Los Angeles Rams. I think many people aren't even thinking about the Rams this year.

And I don't think that's disrespect whatsoever. Sure, you still have some big names in Matthew Stafford and Cooper Cup, in Aaron Donald. You still coached by Sean McVay. Bobby Wagner's no longer there.

He doesn't believe in that group. That offense line stunk last year. Cam Akers is still somehow there, even though he wants out through his first two years in that organization. That team went all in. They won a Super Bowl. And I think they'll be closer, maybe slightly improved, but closer to the team that they were last year than where they were two years ago, where they ended up winning a Super Bowl.

I don't expect them even in a weak NFC to be all that good. Am I missing something here? Can you explain this one to me?

Because this one's a little confusing. Because I want to say that what's being said about them, which is that they're not going to make the playoffs is fair, but are you a little bit more bullish on Carolina? You think that they're getting disrespected?

That's up to you to decide. I mean, they got Frank Reich, who's been to the playoffs. You got Bryce Young, number one overall pick. You got Adam Phelan, who's a proven veteran wide receiver. You got Miles Sanders, who's a proven veteran running back in a open NFC South. Should they be getting more love for being a division contender than maybe they've gotten so far up to this point?

No. Frank Reich, the last two years at Indianapolis was a disaster. He's not a great coach.

He's a professional coach, but he's not a great coach. Miles Sanders, I do think is overrated as well. He was awesome last year, but we didn't see what he did in his fourth year, his first three years in Philadelphia that wasn't anywhere close. And there's not a number one wide receiver on this team. Now, the two best things that the Panthers have for them on the offensive side of the ball is their offensive line is really good. And Bryce Young, I have a lot of belief in, but I don't think they have the pieces around Bryce Young at the running back spot of the wide receiver room to even go make a big push in what is a weak NFC South. Now, defensively, you got to see where Brian Burns is, but he's a stud when healthy.

I like Derek Brown as well. And you got some pieces on the back end if they could stay healthy. And I'm hoping injuries don't derail the career of J.C. Horn because I'm a big fan of his and what he has to offer. I think most people would say that the Panthers are on the outside looking in for the playoffs. And I know that NFC South stinks, but I'm not going to sit here and make a big case for them. The Tennessee Titans.

I'll say mild disrespect where I think a lot of people believe they're going to miss the playoffs that I could totally see this, but I don't think they're going to be as much of a pushover as what people think. You have a really good head coach in Mike Vrabel. You have a quarterback who's slightly above average, but then you have Derek Henry, who's a stud.

DeAndre Hopkins, who's a stud. I think they're going to be a team that if you sleep on them going into a game, they're more than capable than giving you all they can and walk it out with the W and find it away on Monday for you to be saying, man, how the heck did we lose to them? If you tell me Tennessee was a team of seven and three last year, and then it all was just L after L after L, if they make the playoffs, I would be a little bit surprised, but I wouldn't be shocked.

So that's all I'll say. They're getting mildly disrespected heading into this year because I don't think there's a reason for a lot of people to think that they're going to be great, but I don't believe they're going to be as bad as what a lot of people are kind of talking about the Tennessee Titans heading into this year. It is Zach Gelb's show on CBS Sports Radio.

So we talk about teams that are potentially getting disrespected in the NFL. My next guest, we will not disrespect because he's one of the best talk show hosts in the country. You could listen to him here on CBS Sports Radio and he's a great job.

Afternoon drives, afternoon drive in Atlanta on 92.9 the game. He of course is Carl Dukes and he'll join us next as we'll preview the Atlanta Falcon season. And we will have four downs of questions for him and our yearly installment of first and goal right here on the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio. You're listening to the Zach Gelb show. The NFL season is inching closer and closer. Who are the contenders and who are the pretenders?

We have four downs to figure out your team's future. It's time now for first and goal on the Zach Gelb show. So usually I'm in control when I'm hosting this show. I'm getting very worried because usually when Hickey screens the phone call, he'll talk to the guests and the guests will say something. And I could tell when Hickey's giving like a sympathy chuckle. I've never seen Hickey laugh as hard as he just did.

I thought he was going to fall over and all like 150 pounds of him was just going to go into thin air. So I'm really curious what my next guest told Hot Take Hickey and he of course is the preeminent sports talk show host in the ATL. He is Carl Dukes who does afternoon drive on 92.9 the game. You could also hear him nationally right here. But where else?

CBS Sports Radio. Put him up! Carl Dukes, what's happening?

Put him up! What's going on, Zach? Man, I'll tell you. Hickey called me and I picked up the phone and I just said, Deebo Samuel. Well played, well played. And you know what?

If you say some stupid things, I'll call you out on it and I won't let you go until you hang up on me, Carl Dukes. I don't think you're going to be getting the Christmas card from these people anytime soon. It's all good though. It's all good. No, but I'll tell you the people at Panini, which is what he was promoting, should thank me.

They should send me some trading cards if we're being honest because that's the most pub they got. I agree. I mean, there was a lot of love there, man. I'll tell you this and I sent this to you. I listened to it.

We played it on my show and I just went in on Deebo because the whole deal with these guys, a lot of these guys, he's an amazing talent and I know we're going to talk about some other stuff here, but at the end of the day, come on, bro. Really? I mean, come on now. Just answer the question. Keep it moving. It wasn't personal.

He didn't ask you about your family. I mean, like I was just like, come on, Deebo. Yeah, and I was just following up and this is what I thought.

Channing Crowder, who works with one of the Odyssey stations, WQAM and does the pivot, said it best. I asked the football player questions about football with things that he said. So, hey, it's not the first time someone's hung up on me and I'm sure it won't be the last. Probably won't be, Zach. I'll tell you this, though.

I'll start you off with this and the Falcons. Are you upset that Dean Pease is no longer there? Because he usually gives the media a good tongue lashing each and every year.

He does. And you know, Dean Pease got here. We like Dean a lot, man. When he got here, I was busted as his chops because he immediately came in as what was like, we got to stop this crap.

We got to believe in ourselves and we're going to change the culture. And he came in, I was like, Dean, you haven't won a game yet here. I mean, calm down. But at the end of his tenure and he promised Arthur Smith he'd come back and coach for a few years and get things rolling.

The answer is, yeah, man. I mean, I would love to see Dean Pease with the talent that they've added this offseason in free agency and through the draft and see what this defense is going to look like. But I'm excited about Ryan Nielsen, who came over from New Orleans, highly touted, well-respected, a teacher. And so I think a lot of people are going to underestimate this Falcon defense and they're going to be surprised. Yeah, no one's going to pick the Falcons and deservedly so to go to the Super Bowl.

And when Kaleis Campbell was talking about how this is actually a winning destination at first, when he signed there, I was like, what the heck is he talking about? But the Falcons are starting to grow on me inside this crappy division heading into this year. Well, I'm glad you said it. Even if you don't know what the Falcons are going into this year. Well, I'm glad you said it. It is a crappy division.

I mean, let's be honest. Baker Mayfield, hot garbage. Bryce Young, unproven. Derek Carr, he's got a chip on his shoulder, but who cares?

He cries too much. This division is crappy. And here's the deal. The Falcons have improved, in my opinion, more than anybody else in this division. Now, what that said, the reason why you should be on board is because this offense is going to be dynamic. I got to tell you, this team under Arthur Smith went 7 and 10, 7 and 10 the last two years.

And people said, oh, they're not any good. Do you know what he was dealing with? Do you know what personnel he had on the field? I mean, to win seven games is almost miraculous. And if you watch this Netflix quarterback series, this documentary, you know, Marcus Mario to quit on the team that even made it worse. So at the end of the day, what is he going to do now with an improved roster and Bijan Robinson, who I think is going to be the Offensive Rookie of the Year?

You heard it from me, Zach. He's going to be the Offensive Rookie of the Year. Were you on board with that selection? Because everyone these days, they don't want to do anything with running backs, it seems like. So it's funny you say that. Two months before the draft, I told my audience here in Atlanta, Bijan Robinson. And people said, you're crazy, Dukes.

What are you talking about? You don't draft a running back that high. Nobody drafts a running back that high. I said, you take the best player on the board.

This kid is a top three overall prospect, not running back prospect. How can you pack that up? And people said, oh, you're nuts. What are you talking about? And then the night the draft happened, I said, no, Stradukis. What did I tell you guys? Of course, I was all over this thing, Zach.

No Stradukis. You're a piece of work. I love that.

Let's get to the next. Dude's here with us. So you say all these nice things about the defense, you say all these nice things about the coach and Bijan Robinson as well. What the heck is Desmond Ritter as a quarterback? Well, I saw him today on sports center, which is great. Young fellas getting some exposure, which he deserves. It's his team. It's his time. I know he made the rounds today.

I think he was on NFL live as well. Dez is, is going to be a good professional, but let me tell you what I'm hearing about him in the building. First one in last one out, totally buying in to understanding everything he needs to know about running this offense. He's a great teammate and guys are already talking about his leadership. Now I'm going to say that again, his leadership, Zach, all these guys don't necessarily have to be Patrick Mahomes, but you know what they have to be leaders.

So if he is what they're saying, he is in the building, he's going to be fine, man. He's going to go through some growing pains. He played four games last year, but Desmond Ritter is going to be a very good professional. If you're wanting me to say, he's going to be, you know, a 10 time all pro.

I'm not willing to go there. And I'm certainly not willing to tell you that he is going to be one of the all time greats, but I think he can grow into the role and with the weapons they have around him and Drake London and Kyle Pitts and CP, Cordell, Cordell Patterson and Bijan Robinson and John U. Smith, they're going to score points. John U. Smith, that's all stopped the Atlanta Falcons hype. When they brought him into Atlanta, they just showed what he did in Tennessee because he had brick hands in New England. Well, I think it didn't work because there were there were things against him there and the system and this is not coming from me, it's coming from the coaching staff. Listen, Arthur Smith had him in Tennessee, go look at his numbers in Tennessee.

When Arthur Smith had him as the offensive coordinator, dude, he is a dude and a very likable guy. Red zone is going to be something that the Falcons will be hard to stop, or at least they should be this year. When you've got John U. Smith and Pitts on the field, along with London and Bijan, who can play a slot receiver role, you can roll Bijan out to the wide receiver. He might run a better route than most wide receivers in the league.

That's how good his hands are. So you're going to have options down there and oh, by the way, you can leave Tyler Algier in the backfield, who ran 4,000 yards last year and was averaging over four and a half a pop. I think they're going to have some options and John U. came in just realizing, hey, it didn't work in New England, but Arthur knows what he's getting.

Let's get to the next down. Carl Dukes here with us. You mentioned Algier. I was really impressed with him last year. Now, as you said, they drafted Bijan Robinson and you think he's going to be Rookie of the Year on the offense side of the ball, and it's tough to debate that. How does that relationship work now between Bijan Robinson and also Tyler Algier? Well, Algier came in here with really no expectations, and to be quite honest with you, Zach, I was loving that pick last year coming out of BYU.

I watched this kid a couple of different times. I knew he ran hard, but this team needed a game changer. What I mean by that is for Bijan Robinson, just to give you an idea of how elusive he is, at the University of Texas, he avoided 113 tackles. That's the most tackles avoided by any FBS player over the last five years.

You don't get a clean shot on him. So once he gets to the linebackers and makes his move, and now he's past the safety, it's a wrap. Algier doesn't have that, but he runs hard, and he'll give you quality yards, and he's tough to stop.

I think Tyler Algier has taken on the addition of Bijan Robinson with saying, hey, we're going to make each other better, and I think they're both going to be important to the run game. So you look at Kyle Pitts, and I know it's easy to second guess, but if you just look back at the top 15 in that draft after the Falcons did take Kyle Pitts at four, you had Jamar Chase go five, Jalen Waddle goes six, Penay Sewell seventh, you had Patrick Sertan go ninth, and Devontae Smith go tenth, and then I'll still throw out Justin Fields there, and you had Micah Parsons go 12. Are you still fine with the Kyle Pitts draft pick, or is it like, man, they shouldn't have drafted him and gone elsewhere? Important year for Kyle Pitts. Year one, 1,000 yards, great tight end season, first tight end to do it since a guy named Mike Dickett did it.

Year two hurt. Important year for Kyle Pitts. Is he a unicorn like we think he is?

4-4, 4-3 speed, 6-6, all the things that we talked about coming out of Florida. I think the answer is yes, but he's got to prove it. Zach, I'm not going to sit here and tell you, you know me, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that Kyle Pitts is all that. He's got to come in and have a great year for the Falcons, and you know, I know he's gone through this quarterback transition. Marcus Mario didn't find him enough, but he didn't find anybody enough, so I'll give him a pass and say he was injured last year. He's got to come into camp healthy. He put out an Instagram post today or yesterday saying he was going to be healthy, and he's coming in. He's ready to go. He's not going to be on the pup list, so we're excited to see where it goes for Kyle.

Let's get to the final down. Before we get to the prediction for this year's team, I have not watched the Netflix documentary yet. You know, the account sharing, I have to go pay for my own Netflix now, so I'll do that at some point this week. Me and Micah Parsons were best buds, you know.

I was hoping that my parents or a friend would still be paying for it, but that's not the case. When you get into the whole Marcus Mariota thing, what's the truth from your understanding of what transpired there? He just got benched, then he quit on the team? Yeah, there is no other truth.

Are you kidding me? The whole thing about him wanting a surgery and getting the surgery after he was told he was being benched, it was his out. It was his out. Here's what happened. They go to him.

They say, hey, we're going to go to Dez for the final four games. Marcus didn't like it. If you remember, or maybe don't remember, the Falcons were still in contention in December.

They were still in the division hunt as bad as things were in this division with Tom Brady, etc. And ultimately, he didn't like it. And then he made the excuse, because here's the deal, if you were going to have the surgery and it was that bad, you could have had the surgery earlier in the season and just said, hey, I'm going to shut it down. You only shut it down when you got benched. So yeah. And then he walked out and left and everybody said, hey, where's Marcus? And I put this on anything. I'm telling you, I talked to people in the building. They were like, they came in, they couldn't find the guy.

So you tell me what that is. Alrighty, before we let you run, we know Tampa Bay is going to regress because they lose Tom Brady. The Panthers, I like Bryce Young, but I don't think they have enough around him.

The Saints, everyone's picking them and I just don't trust Derek Carr. I don't love your team and the Falcons to win the division, but if I had to make a pick today, I would choose them to win the NFC South. How likely do you think it is that Atlanta wins a division this year? They will be in the heart and I actually have them winning 10 games.

I think 10 is going to be enough to win this division. The key will be the saints. And this is a great rivalry that I don't think a lot of the country knows about. There is a tremendous rivalry in this division and it has been for many years between the saints fans and the Falcon fans and these two organizations. And it will continue. We don't like them.

They don't like us. We have some good fun with it, but if they can somehow maneuver either splitting or winning those two games against the saints, I think they win this division easily. I'm not worried about Tampa Bay as much as some others and certainly Carolina. I think Bryce Young's the real deal, but it's hard to win as a rookie and I don't care who you are or where you are. So I give Atlanta the advantage because Dez has already played four games. He did not turn the ball over in those four games he played last year and they allowed him to throw the ball.

He should have won two of those games that they lost because there was a fumble late in one of those games and then the other game just kind of got away from them, but he played well enough to win. I'm going to say the Falcons will win 10 games and they will win this division. So Carl Dukes, the one thing that I look at just from last year, and I think they have a fourth place schedule because I know there was three, seven, and 10 teams, but I think because tiebreakers Atlanta was in the bottom of that division, they were one and seven on the road last year. How much are they going to improve on the road this season? Because that's the one thing when I look at that number, I go one and seven on the road.

That's brutal. All right, so the thing on the road is absolutely true Zach, but you've got to get stops and this is why they went out and spent the money on Jesse Bates and Kaleis Campbell and they went out and got Caden Ellis. They're trying to get off the field on the road.

If you can do that and you're scoring points, you're going to be okay. And I think it was one of the biggest issues for this football team going into the off season was how do we improve this defense? Listen, it's been Grady and AJ Terrell.

That's it. There's been no other star power on this defense. So now you've added some veterans who know what it's about, who know how to get it done. You've got a nice rotation up front with Anya Maude who also came over. I think they're going to be able to have some success on the road because they'll be able to get off the field.

It was a big problem last year and then your office just wasn't doing anything. He's Carl Dukes, Deebo Samuel's best friend. You can listen to him of course at 92.9 the game and also on the weekends right here on CBS Sports Radio. Carl, I always appreciate the time. Thank you.

As always Zach, put them up. You got it. There he is. Carl Dukes. Yeah, I always think I have a lot of energy and I don't think there's many radio hosts in the country that exceed my energy level.

I think Carl Dukes or I know Carl Dukes is one of those people that do exceed my energy level. Marco Belletti is here. I did not get a chance to ask Marco Belletti this yesterday so I'll ask him this today.

Marco Belletti is a big New York football giant fan. The big news yesterday, Saquon Barkley and Josh Jacobs both had a franchise tag and we knew that yesterday at 4 p.m. Eastern was the deadline to get that extension and now the question just becomes when will Saquon Barkley and Josh Jacobs sign their tag and how much of a point are they going to try to prove that there really is nothing much that is going to change. So I'll just ask you this simple question. Were you surprised that the Giants and Saquon Barkley didn't get a deal done by yesterday's deadline?

Yes. Yes, I know that may be sound to some people would oh naive why would you because I didn't think that they were that far apart and from all the reports they weren't. So I'm a little surprised that somebody didn't just swallow the pride a little bit. You're talking a million dollars a year and possibly over a two-year span two million dollars being the difference between getting this done and not getting it done. That's not enough.

I feel like you had enough time to really work this thing out. I feel like it became a pride thing on both sides. That's a little ridiculous. Two million dollars over two years. We're talking NFL money here that could be resolved. And if my understanding because you read so many different things is the same as what you're reading they upped his guaranteed money to 22 million dollars in the reports that I did see and then they lowered the average annual value. So it's almost like you got to have a little give and take and if the Giants if that goes the way that I read it the Giants upped the guaranteed and they lowered the average annual value a little bit you know to get the more guaranteed money if the average annual value falls a little bit I don't think that's the end of the world. Yeah again though but I also look at it from Barkley's perspective if he plays on the tag the two years he's looking at 22 million he was looking for from what it seems like 24 over the two years.

Yeah which I thought would have been fair. That's not asking a whole lot if you're saying well the Giants will probably tag them twice because that's what everybody kind of assumes right? You tagged him once he plays the season plays well enough and then next year the tag would be 12 million for him. So you're paying 22 million for the two years what's the problem with 24? So I'm a little surprised that the Giants was almost like look we offered you something last year you said no well now you're going to get what you're going to get and they didn't seem like they wanted to go any further which is a little surprising and just the simple fact that they really like him and they really want him. If they didn't care and they were like hey look if you walk out that door we don't really care if you're gone. I think the Giants honestly do care but this kind of became like a line in the sand like we have to as a business make sure that we don't give up this two million dollars because it'll hurt us if we do it three or four times we're looking at a lot of money on the cap situation over the next couple years we can't let them take advantage of us it seems strange that neither one neither side was able to just swallow the pride a little bit. And that was the other thing where the Dexter Lawrence thing got done without a hiccup right you knew that was going to get done I had Joe Shane on at the trade deadline and he made it clear that Dexter Lawrence isn't going anywhere they did not intend to give Daniel Jones a new contract from a year ago when they didn't extend that fifth year option and Jones played himself into right at least getting another year or two as the quarterback and they had to get a deal done and you work out the outs and all that stuff I really do think that this comes down to you have a younger GM right now and Joe Shane who I have a lot of respect for and you have Saquon Barkley who feels like he's holding a lot of power here and a lot in the other running backs as well and it's almost as if Joe Shane said we we gave you some things and you're not willing to negotiate back with us so as you were saying kind of you set a precedent that I'm a younger GM and this is the first time it got ugly but it seemed like all this was avoidable it was again look we're not privy to all the details but from all the reports and from all what the money that comes out look the Giants were going to give you more than a two-year guarantee that's that's obvious that's the running back market I think Barkley was smart enough to understand that the third or fourth year whatever you however many years you want to put on the deal and put the total money at was all fugazi anyway it was a question of what the first what the guaranteed money off the first two years because that's what it's about and if Barkley wanted a little bit more I understand the concept and I think the Giants looked at it and it felt like to me whatever that was that they originally did last year now that sounded like the guaranteed money was really not anywhere close to what it needed to be which is where Barkley was like look that's that's not a real contract you can't guarantee me 20 million when I can get 22 million off the two tags because that's not that's not making any sense I understand it it felt like the Giants just didn't want to go down the road of the precedent with a running back I feel like they were scared to kind of be the ones that set that up because it feels like everyone in the NFL has now moved away from it and as much as they like Barkley they like the locker room they like the captaincy they like the fact that he's been good off the field on the field he's been a good soldier through a lot of bad down times with a lot of garbage that he's seen around him this is third head coach guy's been in the league like five years it's ridiculous some of the nonsense he's he's done all the right things they just didn't business-wise want to be able to say we gave up two to three or four million dollars whatever that final number was because they didn't feel like they wanted to get taken to the bank and have the rest of the league look at it and go well they did it I don't think the Giants wanted to be that team and and maybe I thought I tweeted this out there but I didn't um but maybe I just said it on the air where I made a prediction here and my prediction last week on the guaranteed money was 28 million and when I first said that like I think it was even Hickey even though you weren't here but we were having some conversation about maybe it was two weeks ago where Hickey goes I don't even know if he's going to get that much guaranteed money because you go back I think Derrick Henry got 25 I would have thought if you would have just given whether it's four years and let's say you dress it up to 56 million but everyone knows that's not going to be the case whatever if you gave 28 million guaranteed that's 14 a year I you know well that that would have that definitely would have got it done from what it sounds like the Giants didn't want to do two years 24 which is which is what it sounds like Barkley's last 22 from what I read guaranteed and it sounds like Barkley's last ditch was we'll do 24 guaranteed I should have got done that and again to me 24 to 22 at some point you sit down and like look we're close enough here can we just maybe even even split the difference we want to do 22 you want to do 24 let's say 23 and call it even like it almost felt like little kids where it's like can we get that last little hurdle and it just seemed like the Giants put their line in the sand we're not doing more than what the tags guarantee and if you're Barkley as much as this is dangerous because the only thing that can hurt him in this if he gets hurt that's it that's the big thing if he doesn't get hurt this year he's going to get at least the 22 guaranteed he unfortunately you don't want to put in the ether he threw he blows out a knee he's not getting 22 guaranteed so he is taking a little bit of a gamble and then the question is does he hold out long enough to get the Giants to say look we guarantee you we won't tag you next year so you can hit the open market which I think he thinks is better than it is because I don't know in the open market someone's going to give him 12 million per at one two three I don't know where he thinks he's going to get it and I don't know if he says well two years maybe 20 million so I get 20 instead of 12 I don't know if that's a guarantee anywhere either I feel like the 12 million next year off the tag is probably the best he's going to get regardless and also if 24 if that's correct it's not like you're resetting the market McCaffrey got 30 million fully guaranteed and Derek Henry got 25 you know from what I'm reading right here that'd be the third most the problem is again guaranteed money that guarantee that that contract for McCaffrey now looks like a bad contract and the Giants didn't want to go down that road that's the thing they don't want to go down the road of last time a running back got guaranteed what 10 million a year was Nick Chubb yeah well that was the last that was the last one right they don't want to go down that road that you see in these numbers each and every year are coming down the Giants didn't want it to creep up at all and I don't want to take a break but McCaffrey and Saquon are similar where when they're on the field they're awesome jaw-dropping talent and when they're not but when they're not it's like oh you got this big contract and again that's just the way the NFL is right now they don't want to pay that to that position as much as Saquon can say well I'm not just a running back the Giants rebuttal is but you are yeah your only value to them is as a running back as much as we want to talk about how great he is in the open field and he is he's electric at times he had like 300 yards receiving last year he's a running back he's a good one but he's a running back and in the NFL right now they don't get paid you're listening to the Zach Gelb show alrighty this is that Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio Hickey real quick quickly I'll ask you this question because I know we got to get on out of here soon the Raiders first four games Denver Buffalo Pittsburgh and the Chargers will you see Josh Jacobs on the field for any of those first four games and if so when's the earliest that you think you end up seeing him I think he'll be there for all four so you don't think he's actually gonna hold out here well it's not technically a holdout because he hasn't signed anything yet but you get the point I think him and Barco miss a good amount of training camp I think both will be on the field week one because I just don't see the upside to missing games especially multiple games right now where they are you know they're on the franchise tag and could get franchised again still playing for contract and the Giants it's Dallas it's the Cardinals it's the 49ers and then it's the Seahawks there's that's their first four games of the season I agree with you I think both are there I think if it's one or the other that's more likely to miss it would be Jacobs over Saquon Barkley but I will say this I don't think it benefits either player to sit out and miss games intentionally but if you want to make a point can't you do the good old Jaylen Ramsey where you're there but on my back hurts or oh my leg hurts or you know my arm is just hurting me and then you could kind of do both where you're still gonna get paid but then you could also go make somewhat of a point to have people interpret that as well what I would fear because the running back market so devalues anyway teams use that against them oh you miss games because you were hurt oh you want 10 million here's nine here's eight like they use the injury thing even if they were quote-unquote faking it or exaggerating it use it against them when it comes to salary talks in the off season yes and no it's not a horrible point but I think everyone in the NFL can acknowledge when there's a wink wink around something all righty that's the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio the defensive play of the week is sponsored by the Navy Federal Credit Union who proudly serves the armed forces DoD veterans and their families their members are the mission learn more at navy federal.org and how about Red Sox pitcher Nick Pavetta who pitched in relief and dominated his lineup on Monday night striking out 13 batters in six innings as Boston shot at Oakland 7-0 the 13 K's weren't just a career high for the righty but also set a Red Sox record for the most strikeouts by a reliever in their history we'll talk to you tomorrow everybody we out bye-bye peace