The Rise of Jimmy Butler (Hour 3)

Alright, the hour number three of our radio program.

That's right, it is the Zach Gelb Show coast to coast on CBS Sports Radio. Nuggets analyst Scott Hastings is going to stop by coming up 20 minutes from now as we will preview the NBA Finals that do get underway coming up tomorrow night. And I'll say this about the Finals. Why I'm intrigued by this NBA Finals is just how unlikely both these stories were. Now, don't get me wrong, Denver being there this year when you enter the postseason was a likely outcome. We know Miami is not a likely outcome.

The fact that they got there because they were in the second playing game. I know we have so much respect for the Heat franchise, all that. They were one seed a year ago. But you end up being the eighth seed.

You're not expected or anywhere close to being expected to get to the NBA Finals. With that being said, though, you look at both roads that these teams have traveled to get there and you look at their prominent player for Jimmy Butler. Jimmy Butler was always viewed as a good player, but he also had that tag of being a pain in the ass. And I do think that Jimmy Butler at often was misconfused and also misportrayed because don't get me wrong, he was tough.

He was demanding he would be very aggressive and up in your face, but it actually had a good cause. And it was for a good reason because how he earned his way and his great story of what he overcame to get here, he had to fight for everything. And when he got drafted in this league at the end of the first round, no one thought that Jimmy Butler was going to be this star. And those early demanding practices in Chicago is really what he carried with them throughout his entire career.

And even going back to JUCO in junior college. But then you got to see him in Minnesota. And Jimmy Butler at that point already made a few All-Star teams because he made a few All-Star teams at his end of his time in Chicago in 2015 and 2016. And when he gets there in that 2017 season, it's like eventually his message wore thin in Minnesota because he was right that he needed to improve the toughness of that team.

When you look at guys like Karl-Anthony Towns and also Wiggins as well. And when he had that practice, when he just went berserk, he was trying to increase the intensity on that team. But he was deemed as a bad teammate. And I've talked to throughout the years, Tom Thibodeau. I haven't talked to him ever since he really became the coach of the Knicks, unlike a text or two here and there. But we used to have Tom Thibodeau on this show a ton when he was out of a job. And Thibs on the air and off the air, Tom Thibodeau, he never took a shot at Jimmy Butler. If anything, he just defended Jimmy Butler. And I think down deep, Thibs knew that what Jimmy Butler was doing, even though he may not have gone about it the right way, it was necessary.

And it was needed in Minnesota. And then Jimmy goes to Philadelphia, where if you look back at that team in Philly, on paper, that was a heck of a team. On paper, you had a young Joel Embiid, you had Tobias Harris, you had Jimmy Butler, JJ Riddick, Ben Simmons. You had some players on that team that ended up losing to Kawhi Leonard and the Toronto Raptors, who ended up winning the championship off that crazy shot.

I think that was on Mother's Day as well. The Mother's Day Massacre this year, and then they just had that awful performance up against the Boston Celtics. But that playoff series back in 2019, I think that last game when Kawhi Leonard made that shot, that was on Mother's Day, when it just bounced around the rim a few times, then eventually did go in. If that team gets through, who's to say that Philadelphia doesn't end up winning the next round up against the Bucks, not a foregone conclusion, and then they're in the NBA Finals.

And you're gonna say, it's up against Golden State Warriors, but Golden State had to deal with the injuries of Klay Thompson and also Kevin Durant. And after that, the relationship ended and you saw Jimmy Butler go to Miami. And the reason why Jimmy Butler did go to Miami, and it's revisionist history now, because Jimmy, when he beat the Sixers in the playoff series, he walked off the court, he's like Tobias Harris over me.

It wasn't that decision. The decision was between Ben Simmons or Jimmy Butler. And even though now that looks like an egregious error, like, I'll double the Sixers, Ben Simmons was still viewed in a good way back then. And Ben waited and waited and waited and Brett Brown didn't get along with Jimmy Butler because Brett Brown had to defend Ben Simmons. But imagine if the Sixers, and it's easier said than now, ended up picking Jimmy Butler over Ben Simmons.

Right now, that would be the closer that the Sixers need more than anyone to compete with Joel Embiid. And I was reading a Marcus Hayes article that came out, I think it was earlier today, that talked about how Joel Embiid originally requested a trade with how Jimmy Butler was acting kind of. And then eventually him and Joel Embiid created this relationship. And it ended up then being Jimmy or Ben and the organization ended up choosing Ben Simmons with him being a former number one overall pick and just how young he was and what the expected ceiling was of Jimmy Butler.

But here's what I'll say about Jimmy Butler. Even though sometimes his leadership is not popular with everybody, and he's very demanding, why Jimmy Butler has taken his game to the next level and has gone from being viewed as a very good player, a good player, an all star to a great player, is because Miami was the first team that really did embrace Jimmy Butler as the alpha. When he was in Chicago, he wasn't the alpha. When he was in Minnesota, he wasn't the alpha because that was viewed as Carl Anthony Townstein and Wiggins too. When he was in Philadelphia, that was Joel Embiid's team. And Ben Simmons carried a lot of clout on that team as well.

There were people where when Jimmy would say something they didn't like, they would fight back on it. And remember, a lot of people, including yours truly, and it wasn't as easy of a decision as what people make it out to be when it was talked about that Jimmy Butler was going to Miami. It was like, why would Jimmy Butler leave the Sixers?

It just didn't make sense. And people thought that he was going to ultimately regret that. And right now, the Miami Heat are in a much better spot than the Philadelphia 76ers. They've been already to one finals with Jimmy. And now, starting tomorrow night, they're going to be in another finals with Jimmy Butler. But the reason why I think Jimmy has worked in Miami is that Jimmy was finally the alpha.

And there was no one on the roster that was worthy enough where the organization was going to side with the other player rather than Jimmy. And you look at the Heat culture with toughness and being gritty, Pat Riley, Eric Spulcher, all that stuff. Jimmy Butler fits that to a T. And Jimmy Butler always tried to set the tone, but he wasn't the guy that was viewed as the tone setter on that team because of other people having a higher standard than him or higher value than him in the organization. Jimmy Butler now is the number one in that organization from a player standpoint.

And he finally gets to do it his way. And you've seen a bunch of scrappy guys. Look how many undrafted guys he'd have that are playing their ass off right now. And I really do believe a lot of that is because of the Jimmy Butler style.

So this is unlikely. And it's crazy. Jimmy Butler going to Miami ended up being the best thing for his career because he's gone from a guy that was good, like very good, multiple time All-Star, to now he's a Hall of Famer. He's going to be the Hall of Fame.

The name Smith Memorial Hall of Fame, it doesn't have these crazy high standards. I know we associate Hall of Fame as a greatness, but Jimmy Butler has played his way into the Hall of Fame because you look at these rosters, these aren't rosters of guys that should be in the NBA finals. But now he's done that twice in Miami. Like he doesn't even need to win the championship. He has played himself into being a Hall of Famer. Where would you rank Jimmy Butler all time in Miami Heat players?

Oh, that's tough because like just in the last 20 years, you're like, I'm not going to go all time. You probably could just with how long that franchise has been around. He's not better than LeBron. He's not better than Dwayne Wade, if that's what you're asking.

But what he's doing is just as, it's pretty much just as impressive. Like those Heat teams. Could you put him over Alonzo Mourning? If they win?

I have to go back and compare it exactly. Like we know what Alonzo Mourning has done there. He got a champion. Yeah, he would. He would be. He would be. And I know Zo was there from 95-2003 and still part of the organization. He would be because that wasn't Zo's team in 2006. It wasn't. It wasn't.

And he had two different chapters of Miami, 95-2003, 2005-2008. Yeah, it would be because you look at what Jimmy Butler is doing right now. I don't think they're winning the championship to be clear.

But you look at what Jimmy Butler is doing right now. It's one of the more impressive things that you've seen in basketball in a while if they're able to get the job done. Like I'm not saying super teams are bad. Super teams have been really exciting. The Celtics really exciting. The Warriors really exciting. The Miami Heat really exciting. But I feel as if you look at championships like what Kawhi did with Toronto. What Dirk Nowitzki did with the Dallas Mavericks. I feel like those are more impressive because now we've been so obsessed with for a while was get the three best guys together and there you go. That's your championship team.

Now it's dynamic duos. Like Bam Adebayo is a good player. He's a good player. But I wouldn't think Bam Adebayo is a number two on a championship team. I think he's more of a three on a championship team. And if Miami is going to win this series, they're going to need more out of Bam Adebayo because when he's at his peak, he's he's pretty damn good.

May I say it even great, but I got to see more consistency out of Bam Adebayo in the last two months. He's really taking his game for the most part to that level. But then towards the end in that series up against Boston, he did not play his best basketball. So you look at a guy like Jimmy Butler. What he's doing now, we're talking Kayla Martin was the was tremendous in Game 7.

They probably get Tyler Heroback in Game 3, according to Chris Haynes. You got Duncan Robinson, Gabe Vincent is averaging 18 a game. This is not a championship roster on paper, but what Jimmy Butler is doing is making this team a championship team.

So that's what I'll say on Jimmy. Now in regards to Nikola Jokic, it's crazy how some of the Nuggets organization knew how good this guy was. No one knew that he was going to turn into this, but they got this guy in the second round and he has turned into one of the more enjoyable and toughest basketball players I've ever seen and trying to stop him. Does this guy ever play a bad game in Nikola Jokic? I never see him play a bad game. He is the most consistent star in the game today, right now in 2023.

And it's not just because like consistent as being like, okay, he's consistent at a great level. And this is a guy that went back to back MVPs and probably could have, you know, I didn't care if you gave to Embiid, Giannis or the Joker this year, but you could easily made a case that he should have won his third MVP this year, back to back to back. And you look at both of these stories, Jimmy Butler forever was doubted. Nikola Jokic, even throughout this year was doubted with some of the dumb commentary about why he shouldn't win the MVP and how all this guy can't win a big game and how he's four wins away from the NBA finals and from winning the Larry O'Brien trophy. I liked that storyline headed into the NBA finals, how unlikely it was for Miami with Butler going there to get to this point and I'll be there twice.

And for the Joker, just how unlikely the story is when no one knew who this guy was when he got drafted. And this guy has just got him better and better year in and year out. And it's crazy at the age of 28, it's scary to think that he can get even better.

And we've just seen him play MVP basketball for the last three years. It is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio. We will take a time out. When we come on back, Scott Hastings will join us. Alrighty, this is Zach Gelb show coast to coast on CBS Sports Radio. Let's reconnect with Scott Hastings, who did play with the Denver Nuggets and has been a part of their broadcast team for a long time. He's kind enough to join us right now with Denver in the NBA finals going up against the Miami Heat. Game one tomorrow night. Scott, appreciate the time. How are you? Zach, I'm doing well. How do you think, by the way, this long layoff is going to impact game one, if at anything at all, Scott?

Well, I told some people this today. Denver basically took the last three weeks of the season off and they look pretty good in that first game against Minnesota. So I think they're used to playing without rest or playing with a whole lot of rest.

But, you know, that'll be something they'll be answered. They did, like I said, they did kind of shut it down the last 20 games of the season probably. Wasn't, you know, wasn't a lot of high intensity type games. It kind of built a big enough cushion in the Western Conference.

And then they still, even after the season is over, had four or five days. So for this nine days, I'll tell you this, I think it helps Jamal Murray because I think he's still coming back from that ACL. I think he'll have fresh legs. And there was times, you know, especially late in that Phoenix series, you could tell his legs were getting a little tired. Joker has kind of played the whole playoffs with a little bit of a banged up wrist.

So you got nine or 10 days to kind of get that thing calmed down a little bit. But we'll see. I think for me, that's the biggest question for the Nuggets.

And if they come out and they're okay, I think Denver wins the series. I've always been a huge fan of Jamal Murray. The last two years, you knew that this team wasn't going to get back to championship form just with how they're constructed until he got back on a basketball court. Does it at all surprise you how quickly he's been able to assert himself back as just that finisher, that closer and that killer that this team needs with what he suffered?

No, because, you know, it took a while. He talked about this in the Lakers series about his process he had to go through. I mean, he mentioned it wasn't until January that he ever got to play in a back to back games.

And so they took it slow. The one thing that this organization has done, and they did the same thing with Michael, they ain't going to rush a guy back. And especially if it's a serious injury that they would rather, I think management and ownership sees bigger picture, right? And there was talk even last year that a Murray might come back for game three, kind of like they're talking about with Miami with Tyler hero.

Now, a broken finger and an eight torn ACL, two different kind of things. But there was, you know, a little hope. And I think finally, wiser heads and the ownership kind of boss said, Listen, no, let's get you back when you're completely right. It took him probably till January, maybe February, where they all said he's right consistently. He started seeing moments early on.

And then after the new year, man, he just turned on fire. I've told everybody this joker is the best player. And just no question about that. I mean, he's, he's just another world. But Jamal Murray is this team's heart and soul. He's their emotional guy at home. He's the guy that gets gets the crowd into it with them. He's their heart and soul. He's their emotional leader. And so it hasn't surprised me. But But I again, I think they could have pushed him and he could have come back sooner.

But but a classy organization didn't do that. And he came back when he needed to come back. And he's, he's fine right now.

Yeah, Scott, I've been saying this for a while Scott Hastings with us. And I know the words most valuable player is very sensitive in the NBA and also when it comes to this year's conversation and it's weird to say it because we all know the Joker could have won the MVP back to back to back years. And we know that his importance to this franchise we he's the Nuggets best player but their most valuable player the way they constructed to me is Jamal Murray. Similarly to what you just said and you kind of look at Philadelphia know Sixers fans and Nuggets fans get into debates all the time. The Nuggets have done what the Sixers have been able to do. And that's the find the closer that Philadelphia doesn't have. And that's Murray. Well, well, I would agree and disagree.

I think it's a combination. They asked Aaron Gordon at the end of that that Lego series about the two man game of Joker Murray. They play off each other so well and Joker I won't to his credit because and again, you know this Zack this is a superstar driven league right and 90 85 to 90 percent time them superstars got a nice Eagle to handle Joker has no ego. He doesn't care if Murray's rolling. He's finding Murray he's getting him open. He said screens he mentioned the other day when he when Murray had 23 in that one quarter.

He said all I'm doing is fine. How can I set a screen? Where can I hit his man? How can I give him a little opening so we can get a shot up off because he shoots so bad but then when Murray has tough games and he's had tough shooting games and what he does the comfort zone is okay.

Now the cola yo kids will take over. I can't remember it was the second half of that or one of the games on of his Phoenix or whatever, you know, in fact, I think they're down. In fact, you know what it might have been that game game for against the Lakers. They're down five or six Joker throw 17 in the third quarter and just says, okay, here we go boys.

Let's go. So it's it's yes, he is he is an MVP talking about Jamal Murray, but it's the combination of the two together and the threat of the pick and roll the threat of the dribble handoff the threat of the one-on-one screen step out big Joker goes the basket and you see what he does on rebounds. It's it's the threat of those two guys together that that really I think is kind of pushes team over the top this year. Scott last time we had you on we had you respond to the idiots in the media that called Nicola Yochich boring and I think everyone can admit they were wrong on that by now. Now the conversation has shifted to the Denver Nuggets are a boring team. There's just not a lot of fun things to talk about when discussing Denver.

How do you respond to that Jackassery? Well, I read an athletic writer the other day said, yeah, they're just so methodical. Well, if methodical which would championship ring, I don't think anybody in San Antonio has complained about any of the championships.

They won. I think they're probably a little bit of a throwback to kind of that team because they when they're good and there's been time this year that I mean, I've watched there's certain periods they play that there's no one the league can beat them and hopefully find that out against Miami. They they they just execute they they everybody know this exact everything we're talking about if this is boring it you know, we got to come with you know, quit giving Millennials computers and pencils and Facebook and everything else because if you honestly take this boring the execution for your offense, I mean Denver played la and as you know, everybody all the major media picked la to win that series. Well, he's got the best defense in the playoffs and done another they've been the best team the last third of the season better than okay. Denver averaged 118 points a game in those four games.

They they execute and if methodical is the new term for execution. Then I hope they methodically just run all over Miami and get this over so I can finally start hitting the golf ball. Scott Hastings here with us why I like this final so much is just really the stories like we all know how good Denver could be but what Joker has become no one saw this coming where he was drafted and for Jimmy Butler. I didn't expect him to turn into a Hall of Fame player when he elected to go sign with the Miami Heat. It's neat from both sides because you look at the way that they travel to get here.

It is fascinating. Well with Denver Denver lost to Minnesota in game 82 before they started the this run in the playoffs in game 82 and overtime in Minnesota and it was Jimmy Butler the one that game and he was I mean, he's a junkyard dog. He's he's a throwback guy that you go back to the year. I played I mean this guy fits when they traded him or removed on or however, he got to Philadelphia. Yeah trade trust me a lot a lot of us that know were happy that they were stupid enough to get rid of Jimmy Butler. It was a dumb trade and then because we knew I mean us and Denver saw him we were happy and then when it didn't work out with Philly and they chose other guys they chose Ben Simmons over Jimmy Butler. That you know, you can fire all the coaches you want that's the decision makers are stupid and then he goes to Miami and listen, he's you know, other guys may have played better in that final game 7 what Jimmy Butler has done in this series is is I mean that's that's write it down on a stone tablet take it to the mount because he has been phenomenal.

It does not surprise me at all because I you know, I try to pay attention to League and players. I dude I just I love Jimmy Butler effect when they trade into Philly. I was telling somebody I said dude, why don't we trade for him?

I mean the cola Jokic with Jimmy Butler and Jamal Murray. You might you might have a new Golden State kind of something something going on before we let you run. We all know you you want Denver to win this series clearly, but how do you think this series does play out? How many games and who do you have winning? I got Denver winning and I just got to do that because they pay my check. I really listen.

This team is really good and I you know, I do a radio show. We've had a lot of NBA people on we even had a guy from the East Coast who came on to well, yeah, I watched Joker the last month of the season April to see what I was going to vote for for MVP and I'm like they shut it down. They weren't playing. Did you watch January and February when he was the empty, you know, the player of the month back-to-back bugs now he was just watching it in April and no one cared but saying that if the layoff does not affect Denver. Then I don't I don't see how I don't see how Miami beats them if Denver comes out and looks rested and excited. I mean you got to expect Miami to have at least maybe the first game of man. We just win a seven game emotional series heartbreaker go in go out trade move get on an airplane and maybe they decide who this kind of happy to be here. They're in Denver rolls in game one. I think it could be a long series for Miami. Now, Miami wins it. They're a front-running team man, and I'll say this. I think Eric's bolster is the best coach in the NBA right now.

I there's to me. There's no question how good he is. And so you find a way to lose game one, especially at home. I think I think you're in a long series. I think you still win it, but it's gonna be a long series Scott Hastings appreciate the time as always. Thanks so much for doing this brother. Anytime. We'll talk to you after game four after the sweep.

Okay. How about that Scott Hastings with us on the Zach guild show and little the Scott know last round. I had tickets to game five in Denver and I didn't appreciate the Denver Nuggets sweep in the Los Angeles Lakers. It's actually kind of fun watching that game for just hoping the Lakers are going to win. So I could go to that game five, but Hey, what can you do? I do like Denver in this series and know the Denver Nuggets do not pay me.

So that's a, an unbiased opinion right there. I'm just tossing and turning to, I'm going to go five or six. I'm probably, I want to say five, but it's just so tough with the way that Miami plays and it seemed disrespectful to go five.

So I'll give you the official one tomorrow. It's either going to be Denver in five or Denver in six. We'll take a break here on the Zach guild show on CBS sports radio. One team that I thought was going to be interested in Deandre Hopkins. At least they're saying they're good.

They are not interested in D hop. We'll get to that on the other side, but first up with the latest CBS sports radio update here is the New York post is reporting that undisputed the way that you know it on Fox is coming to an end skip against Shannon Sharpe, skip bales and Shannon Sharpe. Well, skip still gonna remain at Fox, but Shannon Sharpe is leaving undisputed and he reached the buyout agreement with FS one and his final appearance on undisputed is going to be at some time after the NBA finals. And that is actually a per Ryan Glass Beagle who works for the New York post.

So how about that? I'm very curious and odd to see when the odds come out, who's going to replace Shannon Sharpe at undisputed. It feels like you're going to need an athlete in that role. And before you say, well, who would want to sit across from skip ballast?

Trust me, there's a lot of people that would take that paycheck to sit in front of skip ballast as he spews his nonsense that he doesn't even actually believe. So I'm very curious to see who ends up replacing Shannon Sharpe. I would anticipate that it's going to be an ex athlete, but in terms of who it's actually going to be, if I'm at ESPN right now, I would be thinking about maybe jumping ship and headed over to FS one. As we've seen in a few guys from ESPN leave to FS one throughout the years and we'll see who ends up kind of taking that role and looking for that next jump.

If you're one of those like third guy in on, uh, on first, you know, it'd be great. I think he just agreed to a new contract, but Marcus Spears would be phenomenal. I'm really a big fan of him.

Swag goo as they do call him. If you're looking for that former player perspective, Marcus Spears would be the first person that's in the media right now. Sports media that I could think about that would be great TVC and him go toe to toe with skip ballast. And I'll say this, I usually don't watch these debate shows on television. I can't remember the last time I actually turned on, on my own accord, um, FS one to watch undisputed.

The only way I see any of their content is when things go viral on social media. But as of late, and I'm a big Steven A Smith fan, I like Steven A Smith. I didn't read his book, but I listened to his book.

I did the audio book and the book was absolutely phenomenal. I would usually never watch that show ever since they've added mad dog. And I think mad dogs in there every Wednesday and I think they're adding some days on as well. When you have mad dog go up against Steven A Smith, it is really fun television.

The only gripe that I have with first take these days, and I think Molly is sensational too. I think JJ Riddick, and this is what you want in TV. You want people that are polarizing, but I think you either love JJ Riddick or you hate him.

I don't think there's an in between. Like sometimes with media people, there's an in between. I really though dislike JJ Riddick and you know what it is? He always seems so angry.

If I was a producer at first take and hey, what I'm about to say means nothing because the ratings are what the ratings are and they're kicking ass and taking names. And it seems like a lot of people do enjoy JJ Riddick. But I was watching that show today and him just complimenting, he complimented one time mad dog Russo. He's like, I actually agree with your analysis on this one.

And then another point he said to mad dog Russo, you're absolutely the worst. But when I watch that show, I just need JJ Riddick to smile here and there. He seems so serious. Not everything when discussing basketball is the end all be all. You have to be so serious. JJ Riddick is really knowledgeable.

JJ Riddick, some people already say he's great at television, but if he wants to have a long career in this, and who am I, but I really think he just needs to work in a smile here and there. Just a little bit, like maybe every other segment. At least look, I know he enjoys being there. But there's a lot of times I'm watching that, where you could tell he takes these things way too seriously. This is supposed to be fun.

This is supposed to be entertainment. Crack a smile here or there, JJ Riddick. And when he gave mad dog a compliment today, I was like, whoa, I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it because I don't know how much JJ Riddick actually likes Christopher Mad Dog Russo. I have no clue, but it appears as a viewer that he can't stand him. And I'm not one of these talk show hosts where I don't like contrived fights and contrived animosity.

I don't believe in that. And that's what I think Undisputed does. That's what I think Skip Bayless does. But if you're going to do that show on first take, Stephen A. Smith is fun.

Mad Dog is fun. I need JJ Riddick to be a little fun. I need him to smile because he is so knowledgeable when it comes to the NBA. I didn't like the fireman plumbers line that he had last year when talking about Bob Coozey. That did not sit well with me. I thought that was being disrespectful. But we're going to smile here and there, JJ Riddick.

That's what I would say. Do you want to watch first take Alex or Undisputed? Not for analysis. I personally do like JJ Riddick because every now and then I listen to his podcast. I listen to the three man pod. Yeah. Yeah. That's the one.

Duncan Robinson was just on it. So, yeah, I mean, I like him. I just like never I like laugh every time I just see the old man in the three. Yeah, that's the one. I just laugh every time I see a first take or I see, you know, Shannon go skip, please.

Skip. Yeah. Like, it's funny and it's fun. But like, even even like inside the NBA with Chuck and Shaq, like, it's a fun show, but I don't like. Well, that's the standard. That's the best studio show there is.

Yeah, absolutely. But they're not very smart when it comes to takes like some of their takes are not great. And I don't like I don't like I don't watch it and write down those.

Oh, this is what they're going to say. Like, I actually go to like different, you know, like the podcast I was talking about or or the Zach Lowe podcast. He's pretty knowledgeable. So yeah, for entertainment purposes, it's fine.

But for analysis, it's not even close. By the way, I think you and JJ Riddick could be very comparable. I think you got there we go. A smile from you. That's all I ask.

We're going to smile here or there. Do you get whatever you watch JJ Riddick? I always know maybe it's different when you just listen to him. But and I know that the podcast is in video form and and and all of that. Yeah.

But whenever I see him on first take, he he just looks like he is in such a zone because he feels like he has to fight this war in the basketball world. And as you said, that's not the purpose of that show. Yeah, it's a debate show, as I say that in air quotes.

And you can't see me right now if you're listening to us. But that should be a fun show. Like Mad Dogs fun. Stephen A. Smith is fun.

Molly is fun. Like they have a good rapport. JJ Riddick could be really, really, really great on that show. And he he has been at times someone that keeps Stephen A. Smith the Mad Dog in check. I'll give him that crack a smile here and there. I really think, though, like with like I remember I whenever I watch like JJ Riddick with a guest on his podcast, he does like whenever they say like, yeah, like a Kobe story or something like that, or they tell funny stories. Yeah.

Like that. That's that's when he does. But I feel like in first take, I actually feel like when Stephen A. or Mad Dog or whoever's on it has a bad take.

He really takes it like to heart and really believes that you survive in this business. I get it because those takes can be absolutely outrageous. But at the same time, I feel like like you said, even with Skip, like, I really don't believe that they actually think that some like to an extent.

Yes. Knowing, knowing Chris the way that I do, I think Christopher Mad Dog Russo just has a tougher standard in terms of he's not so quick to use the word great. And I think Mad Dog believes everything that he says. I also think there's a difference in terms of shtick, like Stephen A. Smith will do some things for shtick. But I think for the most part, he genuinely believes 95 percent of the things that he does say like Skip when he speaks. That's tough for me to believe that that guy believes half the the jackassery that this guy does say. But for JJ, I'm just asking, smile.

It's not the end of the world. Just smile a little bit. And I will give JJ a compliment. I saw a video that he did. I think it was with Jaylen Brunson and Josh Hart, where he has he had his kid do a three point contest, I think against Josh Hart. And his son was like, yeah, nine.

Yeah. Defeated Josh Hart, who's an NBA player and had some significant moments this year for the New York Knicks that I enjoyed. He also did do like an April Fool's joke where he basically posted a video on his podcast, a YouTube channel where it was like, I'm coming back out of retirement. And then at the end, it's like, I tried for five minutes. It didn't work out. So like, yeah, there is obviously a lighter side to me. But and I agree, he needs to show it a bit more.

All right. Real quickly, here is Robert Sala talking about if the Jets have any interest in DeAndre Hopkins. I know that no coach is gonna really be honest in that situation. And you could love your current group and also be interested in DeAndre Hopkins. But I love that he just says, I know there was some stuff with with Odell Beckham.

I want to league meetings. You guys had Odell like courted off into the corner. And you guys are like hugging each other. It wasn't just some stuff with Odell. Now, Odell took the money in Baltimore, and I guess you guys weren't willing to give him that much money that he ended up getting. But the Jets should be all in. And their receiving core is good.

It's good receiving core. You have Garrett Wilson, Randy Rookie of the Year, Al Lazard has the connection with Aaron Rodgers. But if DeAndre Hopkins wants to go there, the Jets should be all in. And I think in that moment, it was just a press conference setting. You're not gonna show your hand right there. And I think that's him saying he's good. How many times you see that before coach says he's go to the next week, the player ends up joining there. Zach Gilbs shows you.