Sir Lance A Little? (Hour 3)

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For the fourth time. A dynamic search for NCAA March Madness right here in the Odyssey app to get started. We continue this is at Gelb Show Coast to Coast on CBS Sports Radio. Let's chat a little Fordham basketball right now.

And we'll double dip on some March Madness as well. And what a year it was for the Fordham Rams. 25-8. Keith Urgo was on the staff last year. Now is the head coach. And that was the first time Fordham had 20 plus wins in a season since 1991.

He joins us in studio right now on CBS Sports Radio. Coach, first off, congrats on the new long-term extension. And what was a phenomenal season for the Fordham Rams. Zach, thank you so much for having me, man.

And I truly appreciate being on. You know, it was a fantastic year and I'm pretty excited about the year we had. It's a testament to the staff, the Board of Trustees, President Tetlow.

We mentioned off-air Ed Cole, the AD. Just the new vision of Fordham and Fordham basketball and what it's capable of becoming. Just really excited to be a part of it. Last year when you were an assistant, it was such a big year in restoring confidence and belief.

Then you move over to the head honcho chair. The program right now, I was looking back a few weeks ago at the A-10 tournament to see how many Fordham alum and students and fans were at the Barclays Center. Just in two years, this has to be surreal, the growth of this program has shown.

Yeah, you know what, I will tell you this, man. The Barclays Center puts hairs on my forearms. They're sticking up right now because walking out on Thursday night to see over 2,500 student tickets sold and then an additional 6,000 alum come Thursday night, it was an electric environment. I think all of our players were like, oh my goodness, this is real, this is happening. We have an opportunity to do everything that everybody said Fordham couldn't be. There was tangible evidence to see, yo, we could turn this into a basketball school.

This is the momentum we're creating, let's continue to build on it. Then we followed it up with Saturday in the semi-finals. It was less students and we were nervous about it because Friday, so quarterfinals were Thursday night. Spring break started Friday and we were like, oh my God, all these students are going to take off, they're gone.

Can we get the same type of results on Saturday? Well, it wasn't as many students, there was plenty of them, but there was an additional 7,000 to 8,000 alumni. The place was rocking, it was just as loud and it was just so encouraging and one of the reasons why I cannot wait to get back to work. Winning obviously cures all and helps build a culture and a program, but how did you install the belief in your players? Because I know it's new people into the program, but there's a lot of times when a program doesn't have success, the stigma builds and people wonder, that program is never going to be able to turn around.

You know what, there's a couple things with that. One, you've got to have a tremendous staff and I'm so grateful for the guys that took a chance on being trailblazers. That's what we called ourselves as well as all the players.

Everybody wanted to come and do something that had never been done before. So our staff, Trey Woodall, Dave Paulsen, Ron Ramone, Trey Morton, Henry Lowe, there's so many. John McMillan, I could go on and list everybody on staff. It takes a really good support system, guys that are completely selfish that had bought into not just the basketball program, but Fordham and what it had to offer the Atlantic 10. Just really good people who had earned the right to be in the positions they are and then wanted to develop unique relationships with our players. They just are fantastic people that had no egos, everybody was selfless. We call everybody's role is different, but your status is the same. It starts with the staff, so I'm incredibly grateful for them. And then it's the recruits that we got, they want to be a part of Fordham, not just come and play basketball.

They want to play for the name on the front, not the name on the back. And that was a testament to pretty much everybody in our program. And honestly, there's a connection there. My father went to Fordham, went to Fordham Law. I grew up around the Jesuit community, so it just seems and feels like the right fit. And when they can feel that and you have unique relationships with your staff and players, it just ends up being something really special on the court as well. Keith Hergo here with us, the head coach at Fordham Men's Basketball. You're someone that your energy is just so clear, and it really resonates with someone like me, who, of course, I know Eddie Cole, but I have no connection to Fordham, really.

And I'm like, wow, I want to see this guy do well because it's a likable, easy story to root for. You mentioned your dad, who attended Fordham. When you got the job, I know you were on the staff, but that conversation... Off the charts. A dream, right, with your dad?

Surreal. You know, honestly, when I talk about it, it gets me a little emotional. You know, I'm one of ten, nine boys and a girl. I'm the eighth of ten children.

And my mother and father were born in Brooklyn. You could run five on five growing up. Geez.

Oh, yeah. Wow, we would never... If the game was up to eleven, we'd get to about four.

A brawl in the Ergo backyard. One hundred percent. We were not the easiest kids. I mean, nothing ever got finished.

Ever. There was always a fight, but it was in a good way. It builds character. But I had a connection because I was the only one in my family to play basketball. And that was my father's sport. He went to Fordham. He played at Brooklyn Prep. Played his freshman year in 1954 at Fordham. We always had that connection, that basketball connection.

And when you're one of ten, especially nine competitive boys, you're always looking for some attention or looking for a connection with your dad. So that was always there. And then to be able to, you know, become a head coach of his alma mater, it was surreal. It just felt right.

One of the only moments that I've ever, you know, seen my father cry. The second one was after we beat Duquesne here in the gym. Because he had honestly had never been back to Rose Hill since he was a student. And that was... He graduated law school in 1962 from Fordham.

Undergrad, 59-62 law. So to bring him back in Rose Hill, it looks the same as when he was a student. We'll talk about that, Eddie. But, you know, I can't even tell you how emotional it was, how thrilled I am. And it's almost like I'm living a dream.

This is such a unique era. And it shows it now in the NCAA tournament with NIL transfer portal, which could be a pain in the butt for you coaches. But I think it's really good for the sport. And it finally gets the kids rewarded in a legal way where you don't get these stupid sanctions that the NCAA will impose. Forget Miami and forget UConn. Because we know the brands of that program more so with UConn. But when you look at FAU and San Diego State in the Final Four, that's got to inspire you to say, you know, we make the tournament eventually. I know Fordham hasn't done so since 1992. Anyone really does have a shot now.

There's no question. And, you know, I think the parody has been kind of happening. And you've seen it a little bit more in the last five, six years as a result. Three straight years of 15-2.

It's phenomenal. But I also think, you know, COVID also had something to do with that, right? Now, FAU's an anomaly, man. They're young, right? But everybody else. And under-seated they were.

Under-seated, no doubt. And Dusty's done an incredible job there. But as a result of the transfer portal one and then two, COVID, most of the, like Princeton, for instance.

And they don't even have graduates, right? But most of the teams that were in the top 25 or top 30, you know, you got kids that were 24, 25. You know, a ton of 23-year-olds.

22, okay, that makes sense. But usually... Drew Timmy's the new Perry Ellis. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. So because of COVID, specifically the last year and this year, you got teams with kids that are 23, 24 years old, man. So I think that had a lot to do with it. But, you know, with regards to the transfer portal and, you know, AAU, I think you're going to see a lot more of that. Because the parity is such where kids aren't afraid to play against anybody.

They're not afraid to go to a different type of school. It's a really interesting time in our sport. And I think it's the best thing that's happened to our sport, quite honestly. Why were you ready? Because I know you and Kyle did a phenomenal job last year.

You've been waiting your entire life to become a head coach. When you got that opportunity, why were you able... Because you never know how first year is going to go. Why were you able to continue and build even further what Kyle did in year one?

You know what? I think we established, you know, a standard of excellence in our first year with Kyle. And I think we were in the makings of something special. But I think the difference was we needed leadership from within the locker room.

And we got, you know, fortunate. We had an unbelievable connection in our locker room. Our seniors stepped up. You know, when Kyle was there, we were kind of coaches down to the players.

We needed to create that new standard in the first several months of the program. But we knew last summer that in order for us to take the next step, we needed a player-led locker room. So we focused a lot over the summer and the fall on leadership skills and kind of team bonding situation. And as a result, we had guys like Darius Quisenberry. Always important to have really good players, as Jay Wright would say.

You know, Khalid Moore who made a leap of faith coming from Georgia Tech. And then guys like Antrell Charlton and Kyle Rose. We had older guys that really took ownership and led the locker room and held each other accountable. And as a result, they always felt like they were in every game. Which I think in the old school Fordham, they were going in under four minutes hoping to have a shot to keep it close. These guys went into every game expecting to win. And that's a mindset and a characteristic that I think now Fordham is used to it. We're expected to win. We're chosen to win. We weren't the underdog in every game, which is different. So I think those characteristics, that mindset and having a player-led locker room was really the biggest difference. But what FAU has been able to do, it really has to inspire you. And I'm not saying that you doubt your abilities and you don't think it's possible. And eventually you want to get Fordham to an NCAA tournament. But to see what that program has done, maybe not a Final Four like that quickly.

I know it's a different conversation. But just to get in the tourney and to see the way that that program has been turned around in one or two years is pretty remarkable. It's awesome. It's fantastic. Dusty has done an incredible job. His staff has done an incredible job. And those kids believe.

You could see it. Yeah. Right? What it's done is... Well that's the thing. All these schools, like the sixteens that beat the one, the fifteens that beat the two.

Fortunately I've been able to talk to a lot of those coaches. They make it seem like it's another win. And I get it. You're never going to go into a game saying, Oh we're going to lose. Oh we have no shot. It's an upset to us.

But it's really not an upset to them. Which is wild. Well that's the AAU world, right? So these kids have all played against them. So right? They've all played against them and been competing against each other.

And multiple times on the circuit. So none of those kids who are on the so-called 15 seat or 16 seat. It's not the first time they're playing against that type of competition. They're not afraid of them. They're not scared of them. It's not like it used to be.

Right? So those kids are playing and used to playing against that high level competition. And feel like they are maybe as good if not better than the kids that were so-called ranked in the top 100. There's no such 100 anymore. There's the top 15 to 20 where everybody can flat out see they're so unique. So athletic and they're God given talents.

But honestly from 30 to 120 to 21 to 150 there isn't a ton of difference anymore. As a result of the parity during AAU. Guys spending a year round with trainers and such.

These kids are all really good and none of them are frightened at all of the moment. And I think you're starting to see that. What it did for us is our guys are already in the gym. They're already back in the gym playing pick up.

Hungry. They're like wait if they can do it we can do it. That's not coming from the coaches. That's coming from our own guys which is really really exciting.

And I also think with a lot of these quote unquote Cinderella stories. The one bid league actually helps even though you want more than one bid in your league. Because it doesn't really allow you guys to slip up and make the post season start earlier than what it does for some of these bigger schools. There's no doubt. And those kids understand that every single day and every single film session. Every single practice it has to be so detailed and they're already in a professional mindset. Like look it's do or die.

It's survive and advance. And they're putting in the extra effort and time. They understand that look every game matters in those one bid leagues.

Especially when you get into the obviously tournaments right. So they're used to that pressure. As opposed to maybe some of the other schools that you know the last three weeks they knew they were in. So maybe they take a day off.

Maybe they take a film session off. Not like it you know FAU wasn't doing that right. Every single day in practice was as if it could be their last. Keith Argo what was the biggest thing that Jay Wright taught you? Relationships right. Understanding that you know coaches can only get you so far. You need players and you need authentic relationships.

And it's about the student athlete experience. And I think he was one of the best. And he is still one of the best to ever do it. And he passed that along to Pat Chambers who I think took it to another level. And that's why we were you know able to do some of the things we did at Penn State. But without a doubt relationships and having unique and authentic relationships with your players matters.

Making sure they understand you care more about them 40 years down the road than you do for this next three or four. That is the biggest probably the biggest lesson that I learned from Jay Wright. So my dad's one of the few Jews to actually attend Villanova. And he produced Coach Massimino's radio show.

No way. Back in the day. So I actually even though I'm a proud Temple Owl. And I've had to ditch the Villanova team. I grew up as a Nova fan.

I was a big Mike Nardi fan as a kid. And then I'm pretty sure you were on the staff when Scottie Reynolds had the crazy play up against Pittsburgh. I'll never forget that. It was one of the coolest moments of my entire life. I'll never forget it as well.

Not to mention I got two pick guys on staff. Trey Monwoodall my associate head coach was a freshman on the bench for Pitt when that happened. So I went in my ring as much as possible. Rub it in.

I rub it in constantly. Now he'll say well we never lost to Villanova from that point forward while I was at Pitt. But you know it was such an electric environment. I'll never forget it.

Boston Garden. The whole scene just incredible. And that team were all very close. That staff were all very close. You know I'm indebted to Jay Wright forever. He gave me my shot. Was it tough when you were at Penn State and I know you were having your own success there. But when they're winning two national championships it's like man I could have done that a few years ago when I was there. You know what we were all just so encouraged and so happy for everybody who was a part of the program. And you know this is also something I've learned from Jay.

It's once a Wildcat always a Wildcat. And you know he does such a good job of including everybody. We were all back there for those final fours and championships. The staffs.

The players. So you know he does such an amazing job of keeping everybody loyal and within the family that we felt like we were a part of it. And some of those kids like I went to Gonzaga High School. Chris Jenkins went to my high school.

Right. So you know it was such a thrill to see him make that shot. And you know all the other kids you know some of those guys like Ryan Archdiak and I helped recruit before I ended up leaving to go to Penn State. I saw him play in high school.

Yeah so to see that come to fruition. Daniel Ocheffo. The mop man. He mopped the court right before the big archdiak pass to Jay.

Yeah but that's the thing like those types of kids were so selfless like it was a lunch pail mentality. That's what Jay Wright builds. And you just become so entrenched in the team. We have Henry Lowe on our staff who's on our staff and does a tremendous job. Who was a captain of that 2016 team.

Right. And then also won a championship as a GA for Villanova 2018. So we have him on our staff at Fordham as well. So you know just to see all the guys get what they ultimately wished for during the recruiting process.

And knowing how much hard work went into that. You're just thrilled for everybody involved. Keith Urgo do you think Jay Wright will have a return to coaching? Cause I was surprised last year when he retired.

I think everyone was. Quite honestly I think he's doing such a great job right now and enjoying his time on TV. There's a chance.

You never say never but you know it's a different type of game now. And he is so perfect for what he's currently doing. I think he does an unbelievable job on CBS television right now.

And you just knew he would. But I don't know. I think if he comes back it'll be for the NBA not college. Yeah I'm not so sure. I think he's enjoying what he's doing now. And I think his kids are older now. He's enjoying it so. But you know he'd be great at whatever he does. He's that good and he develops those relationships and everybody. You know his basketball minds incredible.

So he could do pretty much anything he would like. I know you're going to Houston for the Final Four as all the coaches go there. When you look at the matchup San Diego State going up against FAU. You have UConn going up against Miami. That's going to be a heavy weight fight. How do you kind of look at those two matchups? You know what it's funny. Like it's impossible to predict.

You would have to say San Diego State a little bit older. Got physical. The kind of like that. But FAU you can't count them out. The way they spread you out.

How tough mentally they are. You know it's one thing because they're both kind of brand new to the situation. So they're both coaches and both teams are going through it for the first time. So you just don't know how who's going to react. You're playing on a totally different stage in front of 85 to 90,000.

The floor's raised. It's a completely different environment. I think it's going to take some getting used to for both of those teams.

Because they're not used to playing in huge football stadiums like that. But you know I think it's going to be a very close game. As far as UConn Miami.

You would think the same thing. Connecticut's got every piece of the puzzle. But Miami has so much dynamic scoring.

They spread you out. You know they have arguably in my opinion the best one-on-one player in the tournament left. In Isaiah Wong. You know kid out of Philadelphia.

Temple roots. But so it's just both matchups are intriguing. I think UConn has all of the pieces to the most balance out of anybody. Right? I think they got great guard play.

I think they have length with Jackson at the guard spot to really possibly be the only people that may be able to affect Wong. And you're rooting for Hurley because he's a nut. You know Danny Hurley.

No offense. You seem a little similar with all the yelling that goes on. The raspy voice. You know what I love? I love that story man. Great father too.

Unbelievable. And you know we got another guy on our staff that played for him. So he tells us how good he is with his players. And I love Kamani Young on that staff. I love all that staff. So I mean they're incredible matchups. But I think they're going to be really exciting. But if I had to choose one I would say. And Coach Larry Naig is amazing too.

I know him well. I just think Connecticut has all the pieces right now. To potentially be the most balanced team left in the Final Four. Well hopefully next year Coach Keith Argo and Fordham when we're talking to you. You're in the NCAA tournament.

Put it into existence baby. I love it. Appreciate you coming in and doing this. Hey man it's a great time to be a Ram. I cannot thank you enough for having me on.

And this is what Fordham needs man. We're going to become a basketball school. And we appreciate you having us on.

You're listening to the Zach Gelb Show. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.

We'll be right back. Now Doug Peterson. He is making sure. With his broad shoulders. Puffing out his chest as well.

He's basically saying. How many times are people going to keep on doubting me. Where people just doubt this guy over and over and over again. Was never going to be successful in Philadelphia. Wins the Super Bowl then gets fired. And now just had Trevor Lawrence after the Urban Meyer disaster.

Get to the playoffs and then go win a playoff game. Matt Leflore. You know what. He looks like. A little school kid. Where he's like holding on to a secret. And he's all giddy and he's just laughing. I think Matt Leflore knows.

That Jordan loves going to be pretty damn good. Did you see Matt Eber flutes in the photo by the way. Oh I did.

What was your interpretation of Matt Eber flutes because mine. Not to channel my inner Deon Sanders. He has the look of yeah we have our act together. And it's coming. The Chicago Bears. They may not be great this year.

But they're building things finally the right way. With Ryan Paul's and Matt Eber flutes and he has the look on his face like hey guys. It's coming. Chicago Bears football Justin Fields finally having a quarterback getting DJ Moore. It's coming.

And we got picks as well. The slick back also looks good you can like you know. He doesn't have good hair. He could double as like a mob boss if need be. Yeah. Maybe if like the Sopranos ever want to do a relaunch you have to replace James Gandolfini. I think so. And then finally.

I know I said I was going to be a five. I'll give you another one Andy Reid. He shows up in those ugly shoes shorts. The typical Andy Reid. Hawaiian kind of button down. Andy Reid looks so relaxed.

He's living in the penthouse for years. He was the choke artist. Now he is Patrick Holmes and he got two fat rings on his fingers. All right. The five negatives.

I hate to do this. But Mike McCarthy. Not looking good in this photo. And he looks very stressed. And I think he's stressed because he knows that he has a good but not great quarterback in Dak Prescott. He gives off the look of oh crap.

I don't trust Dak. Arthur Smith. He looks lost. He really does. Arthur Smith. He looks like he's being held against his own will there. And I think Arthur Smith wants to pursue Lamar Jackson.

I really do believe that. But Arthur Blank is saying, no, no, no, no, no, that's not happening. And I think Arthur Smith has given off the look of, man, I just don't have a quarterback. Sean McVeigh. Some would say Sean McVeigh probably looks cool. Looks like the frat kid.

Looks dapper, as the kids would say, Hickey. I think Sean McVeigh looks like he's on vacation. I think Sean McVeigh has one foot in, one foot out. And that was that way last year.

That was this offseason when it looked like he was about to retire. Then he comes back. And that's how I think he's going to handle this season.

One foot in, one foot out. Todd Bowles. He looks like he's a coach that just does not have Tom Brady.

And he knows that it's inevitable that he's eventually going to get fired. And then finally, John Harbaugh. John Harbaugh looks nervous. John Harbaugh looks as if his quarterback just publicly requested a trade, even though he knew about it March 2nd.

And he's like, just get me through this day because that information came out yesterday right when John Harbaugh was speaking to the media. So those are some of the coaches who did stand out to me. Any coaches stand out to you there, Hickey? Two. Your boy Bill Belichick looks like the last place on earth he wants to be is with any and every other coach around him. Really? He looks easily the most uncomfortable of any coach in this picture.

I didn't take it that way, but okay. I don't think Belichick, he's smiling. And anytime Belichick smiles, it's awkward.

Yeah. From the photo that I see via Ben Volen, he is smiling. And I think he's just like waiting because you have probably someone up on the ladder. Everyone smile, smile, smile.

And then when you have to wait a little bit, it does get awkward to smile that way. The hands are, you know, close. His elbows are tucked.

The knees are tight. He doesn't want to touch any, you know, whether it's John Harbaugh or Andy Reid. He's sandwiched between me. You know, Chiefs and Ravens kind of too rival. Put him next to Andy Reid. Maybe Andy Reid's creeping over into his seat.

Maybe he's infringing on his territory a little bit. Well, Andy Reid deserves it, you know. Two times Super Bowl winner now recently. Andy King, Andy's, you know, reigning champ.

I think you're due whatever territory you want. Yeah, not when you have six rings and you beat Andy in that AFC title game. You beat him in the Super Bowl though. Last coach? Yeah, there was one coach, I literally, it took me 10 minutes to figure out who he was. I had zero recognition and it was all the way top left Brandon Staley.

It took me legitimately 10 minutes to figure out. He looks like a substitute teacher. He does not look like himself.

I thought at first it was like an offensive coordinator standing in for someone else. I don't know if, I guess I've never seen Brandon Staley. Has Brandon Staley ever done a press conference without a hat on? Maybe that's part of it.

Maybe that's what it is. He has no hat here, but. He looks as either it's casual Friday in the office or he's a substitute teacher. He does not scream NFL tough guy, that's for sure. And I hate to say it, you know who does not, you know two coaches that do not look good? McDaniel's does not look good? He looks terrible. And then also, what about Kyle Shanahan? Kyle Shanahan, he looks exhausted in this photo. Maybe it's because they're right in the sun and he's just squinting. But he is three in, he's standing next to Dayball, who looks as cool as cool could be.

He looks exhausted. And you know who looks a little bit nervous as well? And he's done a heck of a job as a coach. Sean McDermott looks a little nervous too. And I've been a big Sean McDermott fan. Now you know how we usually do these rankings every year of who's the coach that'd be best equipped to win a fight?

I think we may have a new leader in the clubhouse. Tomiko? Yeah, for a while it was either Dan Campbell or Mike Vrabel. Tomiko Ryans, man. He's chiseled. Former defensive end, man. He's still young. He has a big or sizable age gap on Vrabel. Still fit more muscle. Yeah, I think you're right.

I think there's a new power rankings this year. Congrats Tomiko. And also, Mike McCarthy, he looks like he's just smelling something really bad. He looks so unhappy to be there.

It's kind of funny with just the look that he has on his face. Alright, anyway. This is the Zach Gelb Show on CBS Sports Radio. We will take a timeout.

We'll come on back. We'll discuss the 49ers quarterback situation. That's I-N-D-O-C-H-I-N-O dot com promo code podcast. You're listening to the Zach Gelb Show. We got some audio from Ian Rapoport. You'll hear that in just a moment about the 49ers quarterback situation. But first, let me take one call here.

855-2124, CBS 855-212-4227. Lee in Cincinnati next up on CBS Sports Radio. Lee, what's happening my man? Not much, Zach. Thanks for taking my call.

But I wanted to ask you about something. Anthony, everybody's talking about how good he is, how high he's going to go in the draft. But if I'm not mistaken, in order to be good, did he have to win in college first?

And he's never done that. I mean, I guess what I'm trying to say is his metrics were great. He did better than anybody the quarterback's ever done on all the individual tests.

Hey, Lee, you got a bad phone line, but I think I understand the question. You know, sometimes you're at a spot and it's not the best team in the world. But when I look at Anthony Richardson, he's clearly a project. And what's concerning to me about Anthony Richardson and you got to go to the right spot. You got to get the right coaching right. You can say that about any prospect because you could have the most talent in the world. You do the most winning in the world as a college quarterback, and you get drafted by a crappy organization that doesn't protect you and doesn't surround you with the right resources.

And you're not set up for success. Like, look at Trevor Lawrence. He goes to the Jaguars. Year one, even though Urban Meyer's a legendary college coach, he was dysfunctional and he was a disaster as an NFL coach.

Didn't even make it through a year. Trevor Lawrence looks like he stinks. And then year two, you bring in a competent professional coach and you make some decent offseason signings. The next thing you know, Trevor Lawrence looks like he could be a transcendent star once again in the sport.

Here's my biggest concern, Hickey, about Anthony Richardson. I thought the game that I was most impressed by him this year was the first game of the season. And then after that, if you want to say he played well in the Tennessee game, sure. If you want to talk about the Vanderbilt game, which they lost, but he threw for 400 yards and three touchdowns, Vanderbilt's not good. I didn't see with what he did in Game 1 up against a very good opponent in Utah who once again won the Pac-12.

I saw a guy that night that made a statement. He was phenomenal running the football. He did a nice job throwing the football. You know, it wasn't great throwing the ball. But he was a stud.

He was just a superstar on that field. And I felt like there was a lot of other times, because that night against Utah, I was like, wow. And I'm like, Florida could be really good this year. You know, Florida's going to be a team to watch each and every week. And then that balloon popped the next week against Kentucky. And I get it, Mark Soups has done a phenomenal job back Kentucky, but I was never for the rest of the season consistently blown away by Anthony Richardson.

And that for me is a concern. Now, if he could find a way to play like he did in the Utah game and continue that and improve off that, then the guy could be a great player. But I really do believe that we really we probably really won't even know what Anthony Richardson is until like two, three years from now. Because I think he is someone that needs a lot of developing. And he was someone, Hickey, that throughout the college football season and you watch like more college football than anybody. He left you wanting more.

And it was disappointing with the statement that he made on Labor Day weekend a year ago. He is someone who has all the tools. He has an insane arm. He's a freak athlete. We saw him like, you know, in Indy tear it up. But like you said, he has one great game, one awful game, one really good game, one terrible game.

There's no consistency and there's really no middle either, which is also concerning. He's all or nothing. He's either going to light it up and carry you to a win. We're going to be so bad.

You have no chance of winning the game. And again, for any NFL team that drafts, like you said, it's consistency. It's getting him to read defenses, play at a faster speed, do everything he can do physically at a higher level. When he really struggled and very inexperienced, making only 13 college starts, which is also frightening. It's he has the talent. There's a lot working against him. He reminds me of three players that we talked about recently coming out of college where it's either the ceiling is so high. But then if like if it does not work, it could get really ugly where there's not really a middle ground. You're right.

The way that you phrase that you're 100 percent right. And then those three players. Jordan Love. Trey Lance. And then also Josh Allen, where a lot of it. There's not there's not a lot of experience. A lot of it is like a bazooka of an arm, athletic quarterbacks as well. Like guys that were major question marks like Trey Lance.

He missed that final year because of covid. And everyone was telling me the ceiling, the ceiling. I remember yelling at you. I'm like, enough with the ceiling.

Like enough. I can't stand that word where, oh, you know, he has the highest ceiling in this draft. I'm like, oh, Trevor Lawrence is the ceiling of that draft class.

I remember that debate that we had. But Trevor Lawrence thought it should be Trey Lance. It seemed like it was either going to be an instant. It was going to be a big time hit or it's going to be a massive problem. But it was he's going to need some development.

On the other day. You know, John Lynch and Kyle Shannon talking about how tough it's going to be for Trey Lance to get in the field that it's Brock Purdy's job to lose right now. And we'll get to what Ian Rappaport just said in just a second. Josh Allen, it was all about the accuracy problems. And how much did people actually watch him at Wyoming? And the same for Jordan Love.

It was you had one really good year and the one disaster year. I know there's a lot of changes that final year at Utah State, but those three players, I'm not directly comparing the player, but just the way that we talked about those three players, where it's either it's going to be eventually a success or it's going to be a disaster. And so far, the only one you can feel confident about is Josh Allen. Like Jordan Love, we haven't seen play yet, really outside that Eagles game and that one start up against Kansas City, which Andy Reid didn't even remember the other day when he was talking, you know, asked about it. And then also like Trey Lance, I think the skepticism that they're showing is really concerning for me. So, Hickey, that's I kind of look at Richardson with those three players where it seems like it's boom or bust. And so far, the only one that's really boomed and popped off out of those three has been Josh Allen.

It's been proven to work, but also, again, there's it's more likely than not, it doesn't work, which is why it's a massive risk and why the upside is there. But it's a reason why he's not being talked to. I was going number one and number two, even though physically he's superior than C.J. Stroud and Bryce Young.

And by the way, we don't know where Richardson's going. Trey Lance went to a good environment in San Francisco. Jordan Love, for the most part, went to a good environment, even though Rodgers was there for a guy that you wanted to sit and learn from behind. And you have Matt Leflore, people think highly of.

That's a that's a good environment in Green Bay. And if they go bad environment and they don't develop in the right way or they put him in a in a crappy position, then he maybe never succeeds. Even with all the tools that he has. Real quickly, this is Ian Rappaport. He says there's a chance that Sam Darnold could be the forty niners week one star NFL network. He opened up the door potentially for Brock Purdy not even being ready by week four.

Like that would be significant to me. That sort of explains why the signing of Sam Darnold was so important. We do not know what Trey Lance is going to be if he continues the trajectory that he's been on. And certainly it seems Sam Darnold will more likely than not be the starter going into the season. But there is an opportunity for someone to step in there and start a first couple of games of the regular season for the forty nine. It's clear Brock Purdy is healthy or whatever Brock Purdy is healthy, he'll be the starter. But if Brock Purdy isn't healthy to start the season, Hickey. And the Niners start Sam Darnold, who's proven nothing in this league. I know he was OK last year in Carolina when given an opportunity, but give me a break.

You got to go to Trey Lance. If Brock Purdy is not ready, Hickey, there's no way I believe that they're going to Sam Darnold. That's a big time, big time concern. I think they would.

I think they're not shy. If Trey Lance stinks, I don't think he will stink. If Trey Lance stinks in training camp, I think Kyle Shanahan is showing you he has no problem going to a guy in Sam Darnold. It goes back to my theory that Kyle Shanahan was convinced and talked into Trey Lance and originally liked someone else first, which was Mac Jones. I do not think Kyle Shanahan was all in on Trey Lance.

And I guess it does continue to show when you hear some of these reports. Planning a wedding is intimidating, but finding the perfect suit shouldn't be. Design your dream suit at Indochino.com and use Code Podcast for 10 percent off any purchase of $3.99 or more. That's Indochino.com Code Podcast.