Refs Ruining Week 15 (Hour 2)

Throughout the 60s and 70s, cops hunted down key figures of the Dixie Mafia, including its enigmatic ringleader, Kirksey Nix. I'm interested in making money.

I'm not interested in hurting people. Fifteen years into Kirksey's life sentence, the Dixie Mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C-13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio. Season 2, The Dixie Mafia.

Available now on the Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Throughout the 60s and 70s, cops hunted down key figures of the Dixie Mafia, including its enigmatic ringleader, Kirksey Nix. I'm interested in making money.

I'm not interested in hurting people. Fifteen years into Kirksey's life sentence, the Dixie Mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C-13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio. Season 2, The Dixie Mafia.

Available now on the Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts. I usually always say that I do appreciate when we're in the same situation, and I do find it fun. Like, for example, when our Mets were in the playoffs, and even though they lost, we were in the same boat and we were rooting for them.

That was good for some show chemistry. When the Rangers were in the Stanley Cup final, or the Stanley Cup playoffs, we were hoping they were going to go to the Stanley Cup final until you jinxed it when you were talking about parade routes and all that, which I still can't forgive you for, but it was fun watching those games together. Today, it's not fun, but we're in a similar situation. Now, for my team, even though I didn't think they were any good this year, I think for other Patriot fans, it's more of a dose of reality that even though their record says, okay, seven wins, you have a shot to make the playoffs, a loss like yesterday shows how poorly coached they are from a hole, and just how stupid they are in this year of 2022, and you look at your team, we know your team hasn't been good for weeks, but to blow a 33-0 lead, even I will kind of tip my cap to the Colts and say, man, that's a new way to lose, that's a historical way to lose, that's an impressive way to lose, even though I've been very pessimistic about the Colts, to lose a game when you're up 33-0 is literally unprecedented and has never happened before by that margin. So in a weird way, we're in a similar situation today because our teams, and I guess we will allow Cowboys fans and Bucs fans to join our pit of misery, but we're in a similar spot today. One way or another, we're kind of like cousins today when it comes to our football teams, even though I can't stand your football team and you can't stand my football team.

Yeah, this is a very fitting show and a very interesting show today, considering, like you said, the two laughing stocks of week 15 are my team and your team for different reasons, but albeit got to the same result of just history and two memories that will be burned in our brains for easily the next 50 years. The Bucs are also pretty bad. Are you officially out on Tampa Bay in terms of you still having optimism of them maybe turning around and getting to a Super Bowl just because who their quarterback is? And I've been telling you for weeks that I'm the biggest Brady fan there is, that they are not, and this is coming from someone that also guaranteed after week one that they were going to the Super Bowl, but for the last few weeks, you have clearly seen that that offense line is never getting it together, and that defense is just not as good as we thought it was going to be, and they are horribly coached.

Like, Todd Bowles, I don't think he'll be one and done, but he should be one and done. Are you ready to say, even if they win the division, that you're out on Tampa Bay? I was impressed in the first half. Oh, stop. I'm not out.

Oh, come on. Football's 60 minutes, dude. Now, to go to an NFC title game? Okay, I'm out. To win a home playoff game against the Cowboys? No, I'm not out. I think they'll do it.

Who's blocking Micah Parsons on that Buccaneers offensive line? They'll find a way. I mean, are the Cowboys going to be clutch?

Here comes stubborn, Hickey. Or is one of the Cowboys going to win a game of the playoffs they should win? Don't get me wrong, and I don't think the Cowboys are going to a Super Bowl. I've been saying that for all throughout the season, and I know Dallas had an embarrassing loss yesterday when they were up 27-10, and they lose in overtime off of a pick-six, which got a fortuitous bounce, and then Rashawn Jenkins made a heck of a play, scooping the ball right before it hit the turf. But Dallas, even though they lost to Tampa earlier in the year, they are a much better team, and they have played a whole lot better than Tampa Bay on any given Sunday, Saturday, whatever it is with the playoffs, maybe Monday night.

Could anything happen? Sure, but if you have any expectations for the Bucs the rest of the year, I'm sorry. I don't see how anyone could expect that team to do anything, and I don't even know if they're going to make the playoffs. I still would lean that they're going to make the playoffs until I see Brady on the outside looking in come postseason time, and I know the Panthers squandered away an opportunity yesterday, but it's not a lot that they're going to the postseason. Because that offensive line is that bad, and they just do stupid things week in and week out because of how poorly coached they are too.

Well, I'm going to go on a limb. I don't think come playoff time they'll turn the ball over if you want to count the botch fake punt five times in a row. So, again, if you just go ahead as a Super Bowl contender, I will admit I am wrong on that. I think that when it comes to winning one playoff game at home, they still scare me, so yes.

I think they're absolutely in the mix. That's how mind-bleep you are from what Brady did to you for 20 years. If I'm Mike McCarthy, let me tell you, I think it's a lose-lose situation. You cannot win that one.

Yeah, you can. If you win the game, you advance to the next round. That's a win. But you don't win. But it's like, oh, you beat a bad Bucs team.

That absolutely should happen. And then you lose to the 49ers or the Eagles next week. It's fire Mike McCarthy.

Well, we'll see if that happens. Now you're making me defend the Dallas Cowboys. The drama Dallas choking Cowboys. I feel disgusting. I've already felt worse as it is with what happened yesterday, and you know what I did last night? Oh, I was on the radio for 11 hours yesterday. So three on WFAN. And then I was on for eight hours. Sorry. It's all scrambled, my brain. I can't do simple math. Eight.

I was on CBS Sports Radio for Ion Football. So after the show, I ordered a fat bowl of pasta. And then afterwards, my sorrows were not devoured.

So I got a fat bowl of soft serve ice cream with M&Ms, Graham crackers, crunched up cookie dough bites. And I had myself a pity party last night. Ate my sorrows away.

I felt like morass, honestly. I really did. That's a real shame. Hate to hear that. That's okay. Remind me. Now I'm going to sound like a Yankee.

Here we go. That's when you know the dynasty is over, folks. Reaching in the past. The dynasty was over when Tom Brady walked out the door. Saying there was some thought that maybe Bill still got it. Maybe some thought that Tom Brady 2.0, Mac Jones walking in the door. Reaching back for 2002, 2015.

And that shows how mind bleeped the rest of the NFL is that they thought Brady could just walk out the door and that they were going to still find the way to win another Super Bowl. Give me a break. All right, let's get to a news brief. Time for your daily news brief.

We get you caught up on the rumors, reports and reconnaissance from the day in sports. Terry McCorn on if the ref told him that he was on the line of scrimmage last night and what did get called as an illegal shift. I feel like I was on the ball the entire time. If you look through the game, I lined up there pretty much every play. So I checked to see if I was good the first time and he was like, I move up a little bit. So when I moved up, I checked to see if I was good. And he said I was good. So I'm not trying to get fine.

So we had other opportunities before to come down like that as tough. Did you hear him tell you that you were OK? Yeah, I did. That's why I'm giving him a thumbs up twice to make sure I was good. So, Hickey, when you look at it and they show the view of him and the ref, it does look as if he asked the referee, is he good? The referee then they look at each other and who knows what was actually said. But when you watch the replay of it, it looks like what Terry McCorn said is true. We just didn't hear it. I don't know if he was miked up or not.

And that audio will never get leaked out anyway. I would tend to believe Terry McClure. But what I probably think happened here is there was probably a miscommunication where the ref probably said you're not good. And he thought that he said that he was good. And that's why he didn't scoot up any further than what he already did. That would probably be my guess.

He kind of mix both stories. It really shouldn't even matter. Like, I think as long as you check, hey, I'm on the line of scrimmage, if you're online, a yard off does really matter. Is it a more procedure of, hey, I am on the line of scrimmage to let you know that I am lined up professional or properly?

Well, I'm a yard off technically or you see him inch up is like six inches. Now we're going to be throwing a flag not to defend the ref. But if you ask me, hey, am I lined up in the line of scrimmage?

And I say, no, you're not. And you don't move up to the line of scrimmage, then you're more inclined to throw the flag. And that's what I think happened there.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but that's what I think they go down. Terry McLaurin on his emotions after the illegal formation call. It's frustrating, you know, because I pride myself on being attention to details and I'm detail oriented in everything that I do. And with the game on the line, you know, you don't want to make a mistake to put your team to hurt your team. And, you know, I just wanted to make sure that I was good and I felt like I was with his confirmation. And at the end of the day, I'm just trying to take ownership and make sure it's not close.

My biggest problem is there's no consistency. So you call that, but then you don't call the pass interference that should have been called if you're going to call that. Here is Ron Rivera, the coach of the commanders who was very frustrated with the zebras. Terry seemed pretty adamant he had pointed his hand out to the ref. What was the explanation? What did you guys see on the film? It looked like Terry pointed his hand out. That's exactly what I thought, too.

Thank you. And I got to ask about the Curtis one as well. The fourth down. Yeah, I mean, again, in fact, don't ask me about the refereeing because I can't answer the question.

Translation, he's not happy. Bill Belichick reacts to the final play of the game where for some reason, Remondra Stevenson lateraled the ball in a tie game to Jacoby Myers. And then Jacoby Myers threw it 20 yards behind him, intended to Mack Jones. And the ball goes to Chandler Jones. And Chandler Jones, the former Patriot, rushes into the end zone for a touchdown. Yeah, look, we've talked about situational football.

We talk about it every week. But we obviously got to do a better job playing situational football and not making critical mistakes in the game. The whole Patriots approach to offense this year has been stupid. And that play, whether it was called or not, and Myers said that they weren't instructed to lateral it on the play. It's still stupid that the players then took it upon themselves to lateral the football two times.

Makes no sense. Bill Belichick says the Patriots beat themselves. Well, you know, unfortunately here today we had too many, just collectively we made too many mistakes and gave up some big plays that were obviously the difference in the game. So, we just can't do that in this league.

And it cost us. Let's go to Jacoby Myers and what was going through his mind when he tried to lateral the ball to Mack Jones. Trying to do too much. Trying to be a hero, I guess.

Call the timer. I didn't see the dude back there trying to throw the ball. I was just doing too much, you know what I'm saying.

Should have just went down the line. Was there any communication? No. No, that was just me. There was no communication?

No. I promise you that was just me trying to make a play. I thought I saw Mack open. I didn't see Chandler Jones at the time. I just thought he was open. Tried to give it to him. And let him try to make a play with it. But the score was tied.

So, like I said, I should have just went down for real. Were you a little surprised? When Andre got your ball in that situation?

It ain't even about Andre, you know what I'm saying? Once he gave it to me, I'm smart enough to know the score was tied and to go down with him, you know what I'm saying? So, whether he gave me the ball or not, I mean, he gave me something because he trusted me.

You know, so I just got to be smarter with it. You know what that was, Hickey? That was a real-life version of hot potato. Because Jacoby Myers got the ball and he was like, I wasn't expecting a hot potato. So, let me just chuck the hot potato down the field as far as possible. That's a good throw. Hey, you're on throw to the five of the five. That's a good throw. Can I ask you one serious question really fast? I want to punch you right now, but I won't.

This is a serious question. You're on your own 45-yard line. You couldn't throw a Hail Mary? Mac Jones was on EEI today and he said that he could have thrown the ball. I think Bill in the postgame said he didn't think he could throw that far. Yeah, this coaching staff, they don't trust Mac Jones and I don't get why. With what he showed last year, they are not putting this quarterback in a position to succeed.

And Patricia and Mac Jones clearly don't get along. Bill, you got to tell Matt Patricia, you don't want to fire your friend, that's one thing. You got to move him back to the defensive side of the ball and get an actual offensive coordinator. Because someone that knows about offense and Josh McDaniel, say what you want about him as head coach. He knows offense. Mac Jones looked like a different quarterback last year. And the approach week in and week out is just stupid. And once again, it shows you they don't trust this quarterback.

I don't know what the quarterback has done to make you lose faith and lose confidence in him. Because I don't know what Mac Jones is. I'm not telling you to be great.

I don't know. I say this every week. I don't know what he is.

I don't know how to evaluate him because they're not even giving him a chance. Josh McDaniel discusses his reaction to the final play. This is football. The ball bounces crazy, crazy ways. It's not a, it's not a, you know, predictable game sometimes.

And obviously the ending was probably the most insane ending I think I've ever been a part of. But we'll take it. We'll take it for sure. Yeah, of course you'll take it.

That was going to be another blown double digit second half lead hickey. Of course he's going to take it. You take wins as you know this better than anyone. You take wins as you can get them. He is one stupid lateral away from being 0-5 when having a double digit lead at halftime. Think about how impossible that is. 0-5 should have been.

I'll throw a theory out there. That, the way that they won that game is almost unbelievable. Maybe Belichick was doing his friend a solid. Maybe he was doing him a solid a little bit. Finnegan, wouldn't Bill want to fire to get him back into New England? He knows he's not getting fired though. Not after this year. He's not getting fired.

That team isn't paying him all that money right now after one year. Giovanni Bernard had a very interesting exchange with the media about the botched fake punt. Well, you were injured all year. What have you done for us to talk to you about all year? I talked to you Tuesday. Just don't say you're not talking. Because I didn't talk to you all year. You were also injured most of the season too.

Can I go to my family that I have outside and all of a sudden now? Just don't say we didn't talk to you all year. We just wanted to ask for your perspective on what happened there.

You're involved in one of the biggest plays of the game. Okay. Thank you, dude. I appreciate your time with Bill.

We won't hold you. We would have talked to you in the season, but also you were injured. Just tell us what occurred on the punt. Miscommunication, that's all it was on my part. I take complete fault for that.

Was it a fake? I don't know. It was complete fault. My fault. That's it.

Is it something the team hasn't practiced with you? It's all me. All of me. That's something I did wrong. And that's all. It was all on me. Yep.

Number 25 out there. That was me. I was the one that did it. So, Hickey, I've been in quite a few locker rooms. I am not a beat reporter, though. But my philosophy has always been, and I think Giovanni Bernard should have talked after the game, and I had to be basically hunted down to do so, but I have been in situations before where I ask a player, would you mind spending a few minutes to talk? And if they say no, I just kind of respect that and go, okay, I'll go somewhere else for a quote. Now, I get a beat reporter wanted a quote from Giovanni Bernard, but for that to get that contentious, that just doesn't seem right to me.

It seemed like that could have been handled better from the media side of it. I've never heard reporters basically trying to justify why they haven't talked to him before. You're hurt.

One that can't talk to him. You don't do anything. But it's just like, I've never heard like, never heard just like that, I guess. Well, the one reporter that said, and it was said very faintly, and you had other people yelling, like, what have you done this year to make us talk to you?

And don't say that we talked to you the other day. That was, fucks me to gosh, I stepped inside, just five minutes, not even just look at the sound. That's what basically happened. That's what happened afterwards. Holy cow.

Yeah. There's a witch hunt. But that's always been my philosophy. I know that they have to talk and they're required to talk. But if a player doesn't want to talk, it's then what am I going to gain out of it? You're not going to give me them what I want. You're not going to give great responses if you don't want to be there. So when I've been in that situation where a player says, no, I don't want to talk to you. I go, OK, no problem.

No worries. Have a good night. Dean Blandino going to join us on the other side. He is willing, or so I've been told, to speak to us about the officiating in the NFL.

Talking with rules analyst Dean Blandino next. Throughout the 60s and 70s, cops hunted down key figures of the Dixie Mafia, including its enigmatic ringleader, Kirksey Nix. I'm in a rush to making money.

I'm not in a rush to hurting people. Fifteen years into Kirksey's life sentence, the Dixie Mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C-13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio. Season two, the Dixie Mafia, available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Throughout the 60s and 70s, cops hunted down key figures of the Dixie Mafia, including its enigmatic ringleader, Kirksey Nix. I'm in a rush to making money.

I'm not in a rush to hurting people. Fifteen years into Kirksey's life sentence, the Dixie Mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C-13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio.

Season two, the Dixie Mafia, available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. What's the strangest thing you're afraid of? Tails without fur on them, such as rats or opossums. I'm Larry Mullins, host of the podcast, Your Weirdest Fears, where we dig into the crazy things you're afraid of. Starting from animal-people hybrids, you know, people who get surgeries to look like an animal, to giant statues.

If I ever saw one of those giant statues, I probably would poop my pants. Listen and subscribe on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts from. You're listening to the Zach Gelb Show. Man you can think of O'Reilly Auto Parts for all your car care needs.

Get guaranteed low prices and excellent customer service from the professional parts people at O'Reilly Auto Parts. A crazy week 15 in the NFL that will conclude tonight as we're getting ready to enter the final three weeks of the regular season. A lot of controversial officiating, so let's head out to the guest line right now on the Zach Gelb Show on CBS Sports Radio.

Welcome in Fox Sports, NFL rules analyst, former VP of officiating for the National Football League, and that's Dean Blandino. Dean, appreciate the time. How you been? I'm good. I'm good. Thanks for having me on.

It was a lot to talk about. Yeah, so let's start off with the Keelan Cole catch in the end zone. I thought he was out of bounds, but they did not overturn it.

Take me through how you process that one. Yeah, and those are tough sometimes when you're dealing with the sideline and angles. I looked at it, I thought the foot was out of bounds. Obviously they didn't overturn it, and the response was that it wasn't clear and obvious. They didn't think that they had the definitive evidence or the definitive shot to overturn it. And that happens from time to time. I always tried putting myself in that situation when I used to make those decisions.

Can I convince not only myself, but a room full of people that this is obvious? And they couldn't get there. I thought it was incomplete. And obviously that's a play where it's so big and it's so close, it doesn't matter what decision you make, it's going to be controversial and Patriots fans are going to be upset, Raiders fans are going to be happy, and that's just one of those calls that happens from time to time. There's so many different angles. Yesterday, we weren't getting in that zoomed in angle, and someone made the point that if that game, which was originally supposed to be Sunday Night Football, and then it got flexed out because of the matchup, that then there would have been that NBC pile on camera. Why not have a pile on camera everywhere, Dean? Yeah, that's something that we've talked about for a long time, going back 15, 20 years when replay first came back, to have cameras on all of the boundary lines. Obviously the goal line is important, the end line, the sidelines, things like that. Every stadium's a little bit different, the infrastructure, the sight lines are a little bit different, and when it comes to the networks, not every production is going to have those pile on cameras, and again, that would have been a shot that probably would have helped. Like you said, if that's on Sunday Night Football, we have the pile on camera, and until all of the networks make that part of their standard package, we're going to have situations where those two teams in that game are playing under the same parameters, but it might be a division opponent that is going to benefit from a better look, and that impacts playoffs and division standings and things like that. I know that it's a network issue, but with how much money the NFL has, it's like, how do we not make sure that happens when we're talking about billions and billions of dollars that they make? I know, and that's the same conversation that we had 15 years ago, where it's not an issue of money, and I think it's ultimately something that has to happen, where you know that you have at least those lines, the goal line, the end line, those sidelines, you have those lines covered, and maybe it's never perfect, because you might have the pile on camera looking right down the line, but maybe a player cuts in front of it at that critical moment. So it's not always going to be perfect, but you want to give yourself the best opportunity to get the right look to make these calls, because these are big, big calls in these games, and they impact the outcome of the game, and obviously that was a big call, I mean, you can't really predict what was going to happen a little bit later and how the Patriots lost the game, but that's a big call in the game.

Dean Blandino here with us. The illegal formation with Tyra McClure and the official, after having to digest this for a little bit, give me your thoughts on that. Yeah, I just, you know, you always talk to the officials, and you want to kind of give that player an opportunity. You show the player where the line of scrimmage is. You don't know what the formation calls for if that receiver's supposed to be on or off the ball, but you know where the line of scrimmage is, show, give the player that visual. If the player asks, we always talk about officials, and this is every level of football, you'll see receivers looking over at the line of scrimmage official to ask, hey, am I okay? And there's a visual confirmation.

So I just thought that happened. I thought McClure looked over and he did adjust, and at that point it looked like he and the official were on the same page, and then they throw the flag, which to me, you know, that's too technical. I think especially when you have that communication with the player, that's not a call that, you know, if I were the head of officiating, I would not want our officials to make that call. And I don't care if it's the first quarter or the fourth quarter, it's just being overly technical and not one that you want to make in that situation. I know not everything could be perfect when it comes to officiating. I usually don't like to bitch about the officials, but with that being said, you call something like that that seems so insignificant, and then following very shortly afterwards there was past interference at the end so that that doesn't get called, it just seemed as if the approach was very inconsistent in that spot. Yeah, that's worst case scenario. I remember my time as head of officiating, and if I'm sitting there in our command center watching that game, it's the worst case scenario because you have a call that's made on a touchdown that appears to be very technical, and then one that appears to be just blatantly obvious, and we don't call it.

And that's the frustrating part. And look, it's not the same official. Every official might have a different look. We do get the benefit of slow motion replay in different angles, and I think we sometimes lose sight of that, but that's a call that has to be made. That's past interference, and whether it's first quarter, fourth quarter, doesn't matter.

He's there early. He's restricting Samuel's ability to make a play on the ball, and you would hope in that situation there should be not just one official looking at that, but there should be multiple officials in getting a flag down. And it cost the commanders an opportunity to score a touchdown, and they still had work to do. They got to get a touchdown, get the two-point try, but they didn't get that opportunity.

But that's the frustrating part, and I don't have a dog in the fight. We talked about the inconsistencies, but I feel as if that contact happened in the first quarter it would have been called, but since it's in the final few moments of the game, then it doesn't get called. Yeah, and it's a fair observation, and you sit there and you think, and we always try to get into the mentality and kind of just the thought process of the officials, and we'd always say, look, you can't change how you officiate the game because of the situation. If you're calling it in the first quarter, you've got to call it the same way in the fourth quarter. But we're all human beings, and there's that thought of, I don't want to be the difference maker.

I don't want to inject myself into this game at this critical moment. I want to let the players decide the game, but by not throwing a flag, you are injecting yourself into the game because the players, one player is gaining an unfair advantage in that situation. And so you always work with your officials to try to say, okay, are you going to step up in that situation, or are you going to swallow the whistle and not make the call because you can't be consistent if you're officiating based on the situation versus having a consistent standard throughout. Dean Blandino here with us.

I'm not going to get into what is a catch, what is it a catch really, because I don't have a clue. Same goes with pass interference. I don't know how it's going to be officiated, but this roughing the passer nonsense, I know it's been that way for the last few years and you want to protect the quarterbacks because that's where a lot of the money is invested with those teams. But there's been a lot of moments this year where I just throw my hands up in the air and I don't know what else the defensive players are supposed to do, Dean. Yeah, there's been a couple.

And I think this has been the last couple of years. When I first started and the way I was taught and the referees and people that I was around, you really, when we talk about this idea of landing on with all of the body weight, you really had to kind of lift and drive the quarterback to the ground, do something extra. It wasn't just a normal tackle and that normal follow through where you've got two players and they're just going to the ground. And yeah, sometimes the defensive player is going to land on the quarterback and it is a player safety issue and it's a, it's obviously it's a, it's an important priority for the league and it should be in terms of keeping not just the quarterbacks, but all of the players safe from unnecessary risk, but when it's just a tackle and there's nothing extra or additional like we saw with, with, uh, Phillips on, on, you know, when Miami last week in that game, I mean, that's a big call in the game and that's, that's just not a foul. And I think that we always talk about, well, make it reviewable, making a reviewable doesn't solve the root of the issue.

The root of the issue is let's figure out what is passing the fair and let's get good direction from the competition committee, talk to the officiating leadership, make sure everybody's on the same page and then communicate that to your on field officials. So we all know what is and what isn't. And yeah, sometimes you're going to make a mistake or you're not going to get a great look. I just feel like this has been inconsistent from year to year, the last couple of years, and we're struggling to find like that sweet spot where we can all understand what it is. And I'm glad you brought up the review part because I said this last week.

Yeah. If we can make a reviewable, sure, I'd rather have it than not have it reviewable. But I go back to when pass interference was briefly reviewable, it seemed like it was barely overturned Dean. And that's, that's the issue with making subjective calls, subject to replay review because you know, there's the rules are written so that on field officials can make decisions in real time. And then you start to look at it in slow motion and different replays and you're, you're creating a different standard. So I think there's a way to do it and I think there was a way to do pass interference, but you can't have this unbelievably high bar to overturn a call when everybody's looking at it and going, wait a minute, that's passing the fence. But now we're saying, well, it wasn't blatantly obvious, so we're not going to overturn it. I think you have to re officiate the play, look at the video and say, is that a foul or is it not a foul and then make the decision that way.

So I think you can do it, but it's not, you're not eliminating the possibility of a mistake cause you're still dealing with people making judgment calls. Dean Blandino, before we let you run, I know that we've seen a play be blown dead, uh, you know, a little bit earlier than what it should have, but I've never seen the same player get robbed of two touchdowns on the defensive side of the ball like Jandon Sullivan did in that crazy Vikings and Colts game. Yeah, that, that was, that whole game was just crazy.

The tale of two apps, but yeah, those two plays, look, one is full of progress. That's a judgment call. Um, it was close. I could see why the officials blew it dead. The second one, it's just the ball was out so early and we always talk to officials.

Don't, if you're not sure, just let it play out, right? If you're a hundred percent sure and you see the runner down rule on it and uh, and that was one where you just wonder what the official saw to rule down because you can get the ball, but you're not going to get the touchdown. And that was clearly, there was no way that, you know, if they just let that play out, nobody's catching, uh, you know, uh, the defensive player running into the end zone and it's going to be a score and you know, ultimately the Vikings won.

So it wasn't a, you know, a critical, critical thing, but it could have been. So you've been in these meetings before last time I asked you, Dean Blandino with how crazy going back to roughing the passer that it's been this year where there's been textbook tackles that have been called since now, these games mean a little bit more and we're in the final three weeks of the season, we're getting closer to playoffs. Does that stance maybe loosen up a little bit just so you don't have in a big moment in a third or fourth quarter, there be one of those ticky tack, roughing the passer calls? Yeah.

I think you always want to continue to reemphasize what is and what isn't, and you don't want to change something drastically from just like you do within a game. If it's a foul in the first quarter, it's a foul in the fourth quarter. Same thing for the season. If it was a foul in week two, it should be a foul in week 18.

But the thing is you have to look at those and you just said, picky tack, never, never in my experience. And it's still today, I know officiating leadership. They're not, they're not directing them to call, to be overly technical, to be ticky tack. But I think they just have to continue to reemphasize that, that they want those fouls to really jump out. They want, you know, player safety is important and there is language in the rule book that says when in doubt, it's a foul, but I think you have to continue to just drill that with the officials, show them examples, show them the Phillips play and say, Hey, this is not a foul. Show them an example where it is a foul and continue to do that. Because like you said, these games are only going to increase in terms of importance. And then we get into the playoffs and it's lose and go home.

And you certainly don't want games decided by, by a, you know, a missed call. Dean Blandino, appreciate the time. Really do appreciate the perspective. Thank you.

You got it. There's Dean Blandino joining us, NFL rules analyst for Fox, former VP of officiating in the National Football League. What's the strangest thing you're afraid of? Paws without fur on them, such as rats or possums. I'm Larry Mullins, host of the podcast, your weirdest fears, where we dig into the crazy things you're afraid of. Everything from animal people, hybrids, you know, people who get surgeries to look like an animal to giant statues.

If I ever saw one of those giant statues, I probably would poop my pants. Listen and subscribe on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts from. Throughout the sixties and seventies, cops hunted down key figures of the Dixie mafia, including its enigmatic ringleader, Kirksey Nix. I'm interested in making money.

I'm not interested in hurting people. Fifteen years into Kirksey's life sentence, the Dixie mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C-13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio.

Season two, the Dixie mafia available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your cult. What makes your skin crawl no matter how absurd? I want to know. Tails without fur on them, such as rats or opossums. I'm Larry Mullins, the host of a new podcast called Your Weirdest Fears. You send me your fear.

I'm just so weirded out about the texture and how they can just move around and flop. And then I go to the experts to learn how to overcome them. Listen and subscribe to your weirdest fears on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts from. You're listening to The Zach Gelb Show. By the way, Hickey, I'm going to make an announcement right now. I'm officially out on Buckeye Pat and I'm banning Buckeye Pat from The Zach Gelb Show on CBS Sports Radio. I will never make mention of him again. And he's banned. He's done. He's gone. He's finished. Especially the Buckeyes now playing next week in the College World Playa if he's banned. He may be the dumbest person I've ever met.

And the Bengals are making another playoff run? Well, let me refrain. What did he say?

Let me retract. I can't say I've ever met him, but he may be the dumbest person I've ever encountered on social media. So he keeps on telling me that Belichick was basically a nobody before Brady, but that's not the whole crux of this. He then tweeted to me, said, at Zach Gelb, talk about Belichick. He's always been a curmudgeon, got lucky with Brady. And then he said, you hate Brady, by the way. I can't argue with stupid.

I just can't. I can't argue with the jackass. The guy's my favorite athlete of all time in Tom Brady. And it's nonsensical for me to even continue to have any interactions with him. If he's going to say that I hate Tom Brady, like what, what are we doing here?

So you know what I'm officially doing, Hickey? I'm going to use the best tool on Twitter, mute, mute, fuck guy, Pat muted. We'll never mention him again on this show. And I'll maybe like unmute him in like a month from now, just to see how many times he tweets me. Cause that guy tweets me like 49, maybe a hundred times somewhere like 49 to a hundred that range 50 to a hundred times, probably a day.

So he's done, ban, gone, finish, have a good life. This season for the first time, you can hear every Westwood One NFL broadcast stream live for free Mondays, Thursdays, Sunday nights, holiday, triple headers, and every post-season game. Catch all the action on the Odyssey app at WestwoodOnesports.com via Westwood One station streams, or by asking Alexa to open Westwood One Sports. It's all sponsored by AutoZone.

The free AutoZone fixed finder service can help troubleshoot the likely cause of your pesky check engine life for free and get you back on the road. Restrictions apply. Get in the zone, AutoZone. So I do agree in checks and balances here on the show. Do you agree with that? In terms of checks and balances that we say goodbye to Buckeye Pat and just have nothing to ever do with him or make ever mention of him again?

Yeah, that's pretty stupid. He's not even the best Buckeye supporter that listens to us. Mike is much better.

Agreed. But the issue of Mike is he goes to hiding anytime Ohio State struggles. We had not heard from him ever since the Ohio State lost Michigan. Buckeye Pat does the same thing, Buckeye Pat, after Ohio State lost, did not tweet me one single thing about Ohio State, but then goes right to the Cincinnati Bengals. So Mike in Abilene, Texas, he then just leaves us alone, I guess, when his team loses, but then he'll pop back up. This guy, Buckeye Pat, he didn't even, he never acknowledged that Ohio State lost to Michigan. Sounds like an Ohio State problem to me. After tweeting me the entire year that Michigan sucks and Ohio State was going to win. And now it just, he didn't tell me that I hate Tom Brady.

What is this guy, the biggest moron on the planet? Said Ohio State can't handle adversity. They run away as soon as there's some sort of conflict or it's time to pay the piper when their team loses.

Some people are tough, others run away when they go and get stuff. I'll give you credit. At least you showed up today. And I showed up today. Well, I always show up win or lose, but I was a little bit concerned that you were going to call out, maybe sick. Oh, I always show up. I don't duck. I don't hide. I, you threatened it sometimes after some bad losses and I thought maybe you were going to call Spike.

In a joking manner. After week 18, where the Jaguars lost, which is 10 times more embarrassing than even blowing a 33-0 lead on Saturday. Was I there? I was there. That's true. And it was an awful week.

It's still somehow unbelievable. I showed up. Get these Ohio State fans in here, they wouldn't show up that day. Joe Burrow throws an interception, they dive into hiding. I really thought that you were going to say, Spike, you know, boss, I got the black lung pump. Can't make it into work.

That's what I thought we're going to get. I guess this is what I'll ask. How would not showing up even help me at all?

Sure. I wouldn't hear about it today. Because then it marinates and then by Tuesday, since we already had Sunday and Monday to think about the Colts, then the Colts get back on the, on the backburn. And then it's just sitting there and if I, if roles were reversed, I would have it still, I'd be more upset that you're ducking me.

So then it's even a little bit more frustration because now it's festering for another day because he thinks I'm going to let it go and in fact, I'm going to double down. Even though I don't love your Colts podcast because you didn't invite me on when you were having a Patriot guest to preview the Patriot-Colt matchup and I thought you were just afraid to put me on your own podcast, which I'll still stand by that. How was the pod? I did not listen to the pod. How is the dejected pod, did you guys record Saturday night? Selfishly, it was actually good for the way that it was good for business because otherwise I don't know how many people that would have cared to listen to a postgame pod in the game in which most people wanted the team to lose. So the numbers went up is what you're saying. There's definitely more interest on Saturday night than there would have been if they lost 24 10 and was folded like a cheap tent.

No one would have listened. How long after the game ended, did you hop on and do the pods? Oh, so that was right away motion.

Instant George, let's go. We were not going to even do it live on social media, but we figured, well, with this epic collapse, we got to go live now. Were you really that annoyed on the pod? Like were you losing your mind or no? I was frustrated because again, towards the end of the game, they forced me to root for them to win. No, because what I mean by that, sometimes when you get frustrated from what I've noticed, just observing you and working with you, sometimes when you get frustrated, you just go silent and you just have like this look that you're just lost on your face because you're trying and you just have this white ghost look on your face and you're just lost because you're so mad and it takes you a while to verbalize things. You were actually speaking on this podcast that you wrote. I was actually speaking and in a sick way, unfortunately, I've had plenty of practice on dealing with these emotions this year because the Colts is not the first time they've embarrassed themselves.

That's for sure. So plenty of experience in postgame pods after embarrassing losses. Is this the worst loss of the season for you guys? 33 to nothing without a doubt with that again, it still does not Trump last year losing in Jacksonville to the team of the number one overall pick to lose on the playoffs by in this year. But I mean, and this is someone who said that they were on top of the Steelers and they for the most part outside of like one quick thing I've ever heard that was the bucket patch tweets. The what you want to call it the Patriots game with Sam Ellinger guy.

I think they didn't get over a hundred yards of total offense. This one, though, this one was worse because the season's already over. I know it's historically bad. You lose 33 to nothing that's ever done before. It's the largest blown lead in NFL history. But the Jacksonville game week two, where your season ended last year in Jacksonville, you go to Jacksonville in week two, brand new season and you lose 24 to nothing. That's not the worst loss this season for the Colts. No, that was so predictable. Everyone saw that coming.

So no, it was like one of those when everyone sees the comments like, oh, you can't be surprised because this is like, right, you know, par for the course. You guys, by the way, 33 to nothing, 830 to go in this in the third quarter. There's zero chance you are losing that game. It's like it's 30,000 in the second quarter and like with 10 minutes left and also there's still so much time left and they chip away and, you know, it's 30 to 14 halftime, eight minutes, 30 seconds left in the third quarter.

It is 33 nothing. And then when they get a touchdown, you answer with a it's 36 to 733 is a bad number for you guys. Didn't you guys get outscored by the by the Cowboys 33 to nothing in that fourth quarter?

Fourth quarter. Yeah, that's bad. That's a bad game. And guess what, folks? For those sick of the cults, you get them again. I'll see you Monday night.

What history? So 33 nothing in the fourth quarter, you blow a 33 point lead in the game on Saturday. What can they do for an encore Monday night? Let's find out.

I don't know what could be much worse, but maybe they'll get 40 nothing. I'll tell you this. If Brandon Staley loses that game to the cults on Monday night football, I'd fire him on the field. I don't let him back. That game's in Indianapolis, right?

In Indianapolis. I wouldn't let him back in the flight. All right. We'll be right back. Welcome to CBS Roger in California. Next up on the show. Roger, go ahead quickly. All right, Zach.

Thanks a lot. Yeah, I just wanted to teach you real quick that you're getting down on our boy who stepped out of bounds and he was out of bounds, much like when Charles Woodson stripped the ball out of Brady's hands. That was a fumble. Are you going to mention Ray Sugar Bear Hamilton? I'm just going to mention to mention that one. A lot of Raiders fans, they always bring up the tough rule, but they never bring up Ray Sugar Bear Hamilton. And I think you're surprised at how young I am that I know about Ray Sugar Bear Hamilton, but I'm a well-educated Patriot fan. You were awesome.

I love you. I just kind of laughing at you today because we were the dumbest team in America, but you guys actually out-dumbed us on third down. We're stupid. You're running a play? Hello? Yeah, stupid.

The old man is done. I'm not ready to say he's done, he didn't make the playoffs last year, but he's been stupid this year. They're a poorly coached team this year, they're a stupid team. That's really rich on your part, crying about, you know, a regular season game and his foot out of bounds and blah, blah, blah. I mean, that launched your guys' entire career, that penalty call that they didn't get right.

I mean, come on, let's get real. Well, I'd rather be in my position than your position. It's Lincoln Kennedy's take too.

Talk to him. You're the man. What about, oh, that's what Lincoln Kennedy said? Word for word on the Jim Rome show.

Okay. I love Lincoln Kennedy. He's made some national news on this show before. I remember when he came on and he was like, it's put up or shut up time for Derek Carr a few years ago, and he's still somehow the quarterback.

I like Lincoln Kennedy. Raiders fans, congratulations. You got to win on a controversial call against the Patriots, but then the Patriots did one of the dumbest things in America, so it does excuse the catch that should have been overturned, but I'm all good.

I'm happy. Is there something really absurd that skeeves you out? Getting a paper cut on my eyeball? A fear you can't shake? I'm going to leak ocular fluid down my cheeks.

It's going to go into my mouth and I will perish. Whatever scares you, I want to talk about it. Join me, Larry Mullins, on my new podcast, Your Weirdest Fears.

Listen and subscribe to Your Weirdest Fears on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcast from. Throughout the sixties and seventies, cops hunted down key figures of the Dixie mafia, including its enigmatic ringleader, Kirksey Nix. I'm in a rush to making money.

I'm not in a rush to hurting people. Fifteen years into Kirksey's life sentence, the Dixie mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C-13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio. Season two, the Dixie mafia, available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jed Lipinski, this is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C-13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio, season two, the Dixie mafia, available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm in a rush to making money. I'm not in a rush to hurting people. Fifteen years into Kirksey's life sentence, the Dixie mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C-13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio. Season two, the Dixie mafia, available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your