Life audio. Hi from the Salvation Army, and you're listening to Words of Life. These are the words, these are the words, these are the words of life. These are the words, these are the words, these are the words of life. Welcome back to Words of Life.
We are currently in a series with our guest, Dr. Zach Clinton. He is an author, podcaster, and a counselor with a huge heart for men's ministries. And so, we really hope this series has already been such a blessing to the men and the dads out there. Learn more about Zack and his ministry at Zachclinton.com.
And please reach out. We would love to just know what these conversations have meant to you, or just let us know how we can pray for you. Send us an email, hello at wordsoflifepodcast.org. Back in those times, there was a king named Nebuchadnezzar who was the ruler over the entire empire of Babylon. He made this decision that he was going to build this.
Statue of gold 90 feet tall and nine feet wide, and upon the sound of particular instruments or music. Everyone in all of the land was going to bow down and worship the king's gods in this image of gold he had put up before them. And everybody did. Everybody just went with the flow. But there were three people, again Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego that refused to bow the knee.
Even, and this goes back to this idea, this is biblical, right? Being in the world, but not of the world. This was a beautiful example of that very thing. And so the king was ticked off. He was frustrated.
He's like, dude, I had just appointed them within my kingdom. They're right underneath me. Like, I like these guys. I just put them up in the ranks. And so he calls them into his presence, beginning in Daniel 3, I believe it's verse 13.
And as he calls them in, Here come these three men and he looks at them and says is it true? Shadrach, Meshach, and Domenego. Like, is it true that all the words that I've been hearing that when we play the sound of music, you refuse to bow the knee?
Now, I'll give you one more. chance here. I'll bring in all the instruments. We'll start playing. And if you bow down and worship this massive golden statue and this pillar, whatever it is.
All will be fine and well, right? I'll actually forget it even happened. But if you don't You see that furnace over there, right? Like, we're gonna start a fire. And I promise you, like this will be the last day you live on this earth.
And I don't know about you guys, Chris and Chris, and I don't know about our audience and those out there listening. But man, like when you're confronted with like a death sentence, you probably start to question some things. You probably start to say, like, well, maybe this one time, right? Like, hey, we can always ask for forgiveness afterward, right? But man, no, there was a.
Position of boldness. And these three men looked at each other, probably. And this is how they responded. They said, With all due respect, Your Majesty. You don't even have the right to approach us about this matter.
And what they meant by that, they weren't being disrespectful, they were just saying this: we've already made up our mind. Then they offered us a beautiful three-tiered prayer. Not only do we believe that our God is able to deliver us from this fire, But number two, we believe that he will.
So, not only do I believe God's capable, man, I'm confident that He will deliver me today, right? That's more than a hopeful expectation. That's I know He will do this. But then, man, they gave the two words that changed my life, Chris and Chris, when he mentioned this. But even if he does not.
We still will not worship your gods or bow down to the image of gold. you've set up before us. The audience needs to hear this too. It didn't stop there, right? That didn't just because of their proclamation of faith, God's like, well, let's just spare them from the fire.
Right, there we go.
Well done, boys. You you showed your commitment to me. No, guess what? The king, it said, was so outraged. that he actually mandated that the fire be turned seven times hotter.
And he's so angry that it says that his face or his disposition toward these men completely changed. And guess what? The guys, he orders them to be bound in their cloaks and their tunics and their hats and more. And then all of a sudden they're taken up to the fire and they're cast in. It says that the fire was so hot that the servants of the king that actually took them up there to throw them into the fire died because of the heat and the flames.
But then, as the king kind of sits back in his chair, we can all picture it. Probably thinking, like, ha, show those dudes, right? They got what they deserved, they had what was coming for them today. All of a sudden he's just like shocked. He sits up in his chair.
I can imagine like standing up like just in a Frenzy. And he's like, hold on, hold on, fellas. Did we not cast three men? Down. into the fire.
And they're like, yeah, that's exactly right. I promised, right? Don't kill me. I did my job. But then he says, Why do I see four men unbound?
walking in the fire and the fourth looks like a son of the gods. And then the same king. that was once renouncing The name of God says Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, servant of the Most High God. come out and come here. It says that when they did, That there was no, in a sense, No nothing on their bodies.
No clothing, none of their hats had been. a singe, not a hair on their head had been. singed and not even the smell of smoke. had come upon them. And that's this beautiful understanding.
That again, oftentimes God doesn't offer us security from the fire. But man, he always offers us his perfect security in the midst of it. And when we understand who our God is, I believe that we don't just Have a stench of smoke. in the midst of suffering, but man we begin to reek of the aroma of the Almighty. And so that book, Even If, Chris, is just some of the lessons that I've learned from the furnished moments of my life.
and some things that I hope and pray could help all of our listeners. shift their perspective. And begin to say, even if, rather than the fear of what if, or in a sense, the result-driven only if, but truly believe the words, you know, God, even if, like, I still know you're good, I still know you're faithful, I still know you are. Who you say? You are.
Hey, you're listening to the Salvation Army's Words of Life. We're going to take a quick ad break and we'll be right back. For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At ThriveInch, planning your finances is bigger than just money.
We help you put your plans into motion and faith into action so you can do more for the ones in your heart. Because sometimes all you need to make a difference is someone to help you make it happen. Private, where money means more. Connect with us at Thriveint.com. I think the book is really a game plan in my eyes of what God has revealed to me from the different principles in my life as it relates to preparation, perseverance, persistence, perspective, people fuel, patience, and more that can kind of help us walk with that posture of praise.
No matter what the season is, Paul says that, right? I have learned to be content no matter the circumstances. That means that we can actually begin to learn. what it means. To be grateful, what it means to walk through tough times with this spirit of humility, but also a posture of praise.
There's a quote that I reference at the very end of the book by a woman named Nancy Lee DeMaas. And she says, This: I have realized that no matter what I come up against in this life, I can respond in one of two ways: I can whine. Or I can worship. And it's impossible to worship without giving. Thanks.
And those are just some simple tidbits, man, that like, man, for me. I began to say, like, how can I begin to view my life a little bit differently? Not just in the fire, but especially. When I'm in the fire, because that's what Our life is all about. If we could shift our perspective.
Man, imagine how we could begin to change the trajectory of our lives. Mm-hmm. I just love that story because I just think, you know, oftentimes people struggle reading the Bible because they just don't feel like it's applicable. It's just that that is so relevant to what people face, you know, like we're all going to face struggles, we're all going to come. come up against these moments in life that really have us wrestling.
with the circumstances we're in. And I just love that posture of even if Because I do think that's where you find yourself at that place of surrender. And when you finally get to that place. Stuff changes. Maybe not the circumstance, but like your heart.
And then all of a sudden, the weight of the circumstance kind of comes off. And I just, yeah. I wish it wasn't always that I feel like I have to get to That low moment to really get to that. understanding of of surrender, you know, like I I wish I could just in my regular day to day life just be, you know, in that place, but it's in those difficult seasons that like I really feel that's where the work uh that God does on my heart just comes alive, you know. Um And I feel like what you're saying, Chris, too, that's what God's been teaching me.
All throughout the last several years, even throughout the writing process of this book, you know, I typically will. Preach a message or a sermon, and I'll have five points: that sometimes following Jesus leads you straight into the fire. That the fire exposes our foundation, that we have to find friends for the fire, that when we're in the fire, we can't start with what we see, we have to start with what God said. But one of the points I throw in all the time. Is that oftentimes I believe our clearest view of God can only be found in?
The fire. I believe the reason behind that, because yeah, that's what's true of that story. But like you said, it's so applicable to our daily lives today. When you're in the midst of hardship, Right, that's what James one is talking about. Consider it pure joy whenever you face trials of many kinds.
For you know that the testing of your faith goes on to produce perseverance, so let perseverance finish its race so that you may be mature, complete, lacking nothing. Right at the end of the day, I was always so frustrated with that verse because I'm like, why would I consider this joy? Like, this is ridiculous. This is hard. This is challenging.
Like, this isn't joyful. I'm not grateful. But then I began to shift my perspective when I recognized God's not saying consider it joy because of the challenge or the pain or the trial or the tribulation. He's saying, consider it pure joy because of what those things can produce in through our lives. And I believe that in the midst of pain.
In the midst of challenge. that God has taught me more through those things than he could have ever taught me through prosperity. Because it's in pain and it's in suffering where we really understand the countercultural aspects of Christianity and the gospel. That that is where true dependence and reliance on God can be found, not on the mountaintop moments, because oftentimes, unfortunately, Because of our prideful and egotistical human minds, we believe sometimes that when we get on the mountaintop, it's because of something that we had to do or what we had to bring to the table. When in reality, when we're in the midst of suffering, it goes back to the old quote: there are no atheists in foxholes.
That's when we begin to cry out to God, like, oh, God, I need you now. More than ever, right? I can think of so many different worship songs and all of those types of things. But man, it's that recognition. that God never promises the absence of pain.
but He always promises His presence in the midst of our pain. And if we just began.
So look for it. Man, oh man, what a beautiful thing that would be. I'll give you one last quote on this thought. Mark Batterson, he shared this with me years ago. He said, Zach, we can assess the spiritual maturity of a person.
By whether or not they can see the miraculous in the midst of the monotonous. And what he meant by that was, even in the midst of hardship and trial, if you can begin to see things differently and see God even in the midst of those things, to see the miraculous and truly acknowledge those things. It will change everything about your life and it will deepen your faith. To a depth that you couldn't even have fathomed to begin with. That's what I believe, like what you're saying, Chris.
It's all about. God often reveals Himself. in our moments of powerlessness to draw us closer to. and to reveal the character of his heart. And thank God that he does.
Amen. Amen. We pray that you're enjoying and being blessed by this conversation. We're going to take one more ad break and we'll be right back. For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal.
They include loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrive Ench, planning your finances is bigger than just money. We help you put your plans into motion and faith into action so you can do more for the ones in your heart. Because sometimes all you need to make a difference is someone to help you make it happen. Thrive and where money means more.
Connect with us at ThriveInt.com. I don't know what chapter it is, but you quote your dad in him saying that pressure has a way of exposing who you are. And what I read in that wasn't necessarily like a guilt trip, like, you know, something bad happens and now you're upset. And it's like, oh, you're just a fake Christian or something. I didn't read that.
I read it more as When we are experiencing pressure when when we are going through a trial. God is going to allow that moment to pull some stuff out of us that we still need to work on. And Maybe it's career-wise or something, and something didn't go quite what you expected. And maybe you got a new job, but you're not going to be making what you were hoping to be making. There will be these little moments, these little things that come out of you that.
God still just wants to keep working on because it's going to continue to make us more like Christ. The Salvation Army's mission, doing the most good, means helping people with material and spiritual needs. You become a part of this mission every time you give to the Salvation Army. Visit SalvationArmyUSA.org to offer your support. You can subscribe to Words of Life on your favorite podcast store or visit SalvationArmysoundcast.org.
Join us next time for the Salvation Army's Words of Life. Good. These are the words, these are the words of life. These are the words, these are the words, these are the words of life. These are the words of life.
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We'll see you next time. Has fear stolen your peace? I'm Jennifer Slattery, lead host of the Faith Over Fear podcast, helping you fight your fears and grow your faith. Subscribe at lifeaudio.com. The Historical Jesus Podcast is the sweeping saga of the life and times of Galilean Jesus of Nazareth.
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