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Portions of the following program may be pre-recorded. I am Pastor Ernie Sanders, the voice of the Christian Resistance. Stay tuned, my radio broadcast, What's Right, What's Left, is coming up right now.

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This is What's Right, What's Left with Pastor Ernie Sanders. Good evening and welcome to another edition of What's Right, What's Left on this 14th day of April 2023, Friday. And tonight, well, we have a lot to talk about tonight, so we're going to get it. I'm not alone in the studio. I got a bunch of female women in here with me.

Okay. And this is outnumbered. This is my version of being outnumbered out here today. But we're going to get into, we always try to make their scripture relevant to what we're talking about. And God's word, this King James Bible is relative to everyone. It's the greatest source of wisdom, knowledge, and existence today. It is far, far above everything and anything that this world can put together as far as telling us where we came from, where it all started, where we're at today, and where it's going to be in the future.

And it is 100% accurate. And today we're going to be talking about human trafficking. So we have with us here in the studio, Jenna Bing. Hello. Hello.

And you want to get up this close to your mic? Hello. Yep. Okay. That's two hellos.

You're only supposed to one hello. You'll be done. Okay. And on, on the other side, you have Kathy Gill Nitz. Got it right. Her name's not spelled that way though, but it's not. Okay.

And then Caroline Kinkhoff. Good evening. All right.

There you go. We've got all three of them in here. And we're going to be talking about human trafficking. Maybe it's not exactly what everybody thinks. A lot of times we're human trafficking, kidnapping, a satanic ritual abuse. A lot of times they're all connected, but they're not always the same thing. And we're going to take a look at some of that tonight, but we start in God's word, the Bible from Ezekiel chapter 28.

And because it deals with human trafficking. And so we start in verse one. Now, ladies, you can, if you want to read it, this one now, ladies, you can, if you have a question or comment, you can stop me anytime and ask me the question. Uh, the word of the Lord came again under me saying, son of man, say unto the Prince of Tyrus, thus saith the Lord God, because thine heart is lifted up and thou has said, I am a God. I sit in the seat of God in the midst of the seas, yet no art a man and not God, though they'll set thine heart as the heart of God.

Now this is after Bell, the third, this is as Jezebel's nephew here. And he had his kingdom sitting on a high, high mountain, uh, just above the seaways. Uh, and he could charge people and traffic. Uh, and so he said, he's like God, because he was up there almost, uh, you know, there was hardly any way you could get to him.

Uh, when you're up on the top of a mountain, that way you can always drop things down and then gravity's on your side, but it was way too hard to, to go up against him. And so he's, he's telling, he's convinced himself that he's a God now. Unfortunately, God was listening to that. And so God starts to chart him.

So here he gets a little sarcastic with him. God says, well, behold, aren't the wiser than Daniel? Why there's no secret that, uh, they can hide from me with thy wisdom and with thy understanding now has gotten the riches. It has gotten gold and silver and to thy treasures, but great wisdom and by the traffic. Now this, this doesn't mean here, he's not referring to strictly human trafficking, but it just trafficking.

Okay. Uh, which is trade. But then as we go through here, has thou increased thy riches and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches. Therefore thus say the Lord God, because thou has set thine heart as the heart of God behold, therefore I will bring strangers.

Now he's strangers. He's talking about that fella named Nebuchadnezzar and, uh, the Babylonians. And he said, I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations. The terrible of the nations. And they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom. And they shall defile thy brightness. See? So Nebuchadnezzar decided, I don't think that guy's a God at all.

And I think I want that mountain. And so God has brought him, brought him down. They shall bring thee down to the pit and now should die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the sea. Well, without yet say before him that slathe thee, well, I'm a God, but thou should be a man and no God in the hand of him that slathe thee. See, he's telling, look, you go ahead and tell those people I sent up there to kill you. You tell them you're a God and see if they buy it. I don't think so.

Right. Thou shall die the deaths of uncircumcised by the hand of strangers. For I have spoken it sayeth the Lord God.

God has a way of getting his way anytime, every time. Moreover, the word of the Lord come unto me saying, now here we change because now we go from the Prince of Tyrus to the King of Tyrus. Now this King of Tyrus is the one who is given power to the Prince of Tyrus and it's Satan himself. This is Satan himself.

And this is where we get into the human trafficking. Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the King of Tyrus and say unto him, thus saith the Lord God, thou sealest up the sum full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. Now, Satan was the most beautiful with Lucifer actually, uh, creation of God.

He was the most beautiful and is the best year. And that's why, you know, people get this, you see these pictures and paintings in the garden of Eden, this serpent wrapped around a tree. Uh, and now that's, he didn't appear. First of all, he appeared on two legs.

He didn't become a serpent until after the Lord had made him, the Lord had made him after he had beguiled Adam and Eve. But here, what would attract the second most beautiful creature in all of existence, but in the first, his vesture was made of diamonds and all of these precious stones. So here, Eve, who was the most beautiful creature, she was a prototype. The most beautiful woman that ever existed.

What would she be attracted to? The first most beautiful creature. So he says full of wisdom, perfect, perfect in beauty. Thou has been an Eden in the garden of God. Now here, he's talking about, this is not the Eden on earth. This is, there's a garden of Eden in heaven that, that, uh, when, uh, when the rapture takes place and when we go to heaven, that's where we're going to be. We're going to be living in that, that garden of Eden where, uh, God had brought down the holy city that has been in the Eden, the garden of God, every precious stone was like covering the Sardis, the topaz, the diamond, the barrel, the Onyx, the Jasper, the Sapphire, the Emerald, the carbuncle, the gold, the workmanship of the tabarets of thy pipes were prepared in the day that thou was created. So just picture his vesture, okay, with all of these precious stones.

And, uh, do you think that a great big diamond would attract a woman's attention? Yes. Yeah. And so here he goes on how art the anointed cherub that cover it.

And I have set these. So that was upon the holy mountain of God thou has to walk up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Now that was in the biblical, the heavenly garden of Eden that was perfect in the ways of that day that that was created till iniquity was found in these. So the very first sin was the sin of pride. Okay. And that Satan had decided that he would be as God.

Okay. By the multitudes of the merchandise, they have filled the midst of thee with violence and now has sinned. Therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God. I will destroy the old covering cherub from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty and now has corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness. I will cast thee to the ground. I will lay thee before Kings that they may be hold thee. Thou has defiled thy sanctuaries.

Here's where you get into the human trafficking and the multitude of thine iniquities by the iniquity of thy traffic. Therefore, in other words, he's talking about this horrible sin, this outrageous sin, what you're doing. Uh, you're selling the image of God, which God had forbidden.

Okay. Therefore will I bring forth the fire for the midst of thee. Now again, this is a passage of verse that's taken out of place. Uh, there's two verses in the Bible that they build, uh, an entire doctrine on. Doctrine on, and, uh, this is one of those where they tell you that you, you simply cease to exist. And that's not the case here.

Okay. What he's doing is he's, Satan has, he's changing him. He's no longer going to have the ability to do what he does as far as, uh, well, as, as far as being the influence on people that he has been doing what he's done. So he says, it's not the, it's not annihilation. They build an entire doctrine of annihilation on this, and there is no doctrine of annihilation. It shall devour thee. I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of them all that behold thee as they that know thee among the people shall be astonished.

The now shall be a terror and never shall be anymore. In other words, instead of having that beautiful vesture and all of those stones and all of that beauty, God's going to bring that to ashes. And that's exactly what he did.

He brought it to ashes. So we're going to stop right there and we're going to get into, uh, the topic for tonight. And that is human trafficking. Now, again, a lot of people have a misconception. A lot of people think human trafficking. Well, on our border right now, we, when we told people, we were the first people to tell them that Joe Biden had his job.

His assignment was to keep the border open to bring people in. We, we told people now they're talking about it in Congress. Now in Congress are saying there's evidence that Biden, well, obviously there's evidence, uh, all of that, the chemicals that coming in from China to Mexico to make these horrible drugs.

Okay. Uh, and to bring them in now, this might astonish you girls. You probably don't realize this, but you'll, we've done a tremendous amount of research to find out there's something called the global depopulation.

I don't know if you've heard of the global depopulation, but we were talking about this as back in the eighties. In fact, I used to go actually went into their meetings. I sit in when they didn't know who I was.

They each group thought I was with the other group. And you had these people from the Sierra club, the world, the world health organization, what they call, uh, plan predators, which they call plan parenthood and the ACLU. And they would openly talk about, uh, and then this guy, bill Gates came along about depopulating the planet. Their goal was to, uh, limit the population down to 500 million, one half a billion people. Okay. Today it's almost 8 billion people just short. And guess what almost all of your historians will tell you, uh, at theologians, the population of the earth during the flood had reached 8 billion.

Okay. 8 billion. See, we have an extreme problem in this country with biblical illiteracy. If they, if they only understood the Bible, they would know what's happening around today.

And this is why, for example, you see the rainbow that they use out there. Now, uh, God's rainbow is mentioned four times in scripture, uh, at the very first time it's in Genesis nine and in all four times, Genesis nine, Ezekiel chapter one, revelation four and revelation 10, all four times, it deals with two things. First, it deals with God's judgment. And then it deals with his mercy in all cases. Uh, and as we saw in Genesis nine, uh, it, first of all, his judgment upon the earth was he took out 8 billion people.

He eliminated, he warned them, he will for 120 years, they had warnings, but his mercy was he, he spared eight people. And you see that throughout, uh, throughout the Bible. God's rainbow has seven colors.

Okay. And that's the number of perfection of these, this rainbow that these groups use. They say LGBTs or whatever has six colors. And that, uh, that's the number for man, not, not for God.

And so it's an illegitimate rainbow is what it is. And so as we're seeing this, this, I said in their meetings and they talked about this and unfortunately folks, and we, we broke, we were the first ones to talk about this. And now, now it's being spoken of even Tucker Carlson on Tucker Carlson's programs, speaking of it now. Uh, but we were way, way on top of this, our department, our DOD department of defense, they are leading this up. You've heard about Pfizer and Moderna and these different Johnson and Johnson, they report directly to the department of defense.

Okay. So all of this is leading into this global depopulation and they're, they they're heading this up. Our, our department of defense is heading this thing up globally. Now, this goes back to what, uh, going back to the border thing. It's not all these drugs aren't coming in, you know, just by, it's not just about making money. They had their intent is to kill people.

Okay. That's the intent to bring in all of these drugs in and also these children that they're, they're using down here. Now we know that it's not just coming in from the border. It's been here for a long time.

We, we told you before, well, you saw it all the way back to Ezekiel at his day, right? You, you had it going on, but we told you before how we dealt with this, uh, back with out of Mansfield, Ohio, it's very serious case going all the way back to the end of the eighties and early nineties. So now with that, if I was to ask, uh, I'm going to start with, with, well, I'll start with you Carolyn, because you, unfortunately you lost a daughter and boy, I'm going to tell you, I know, uh, how, how, how that happened, had to feel to know, not knowing where she was Courtney.

Yes. Why don't you, why don't you tell us your story with Courtney? Okay.

I can do that. Um, I don't know where to begin. So it's, it started when she was a child, she had a very normal childhood, two, um, two parents, two loving parents. She went to, um, high school college. She was a student at the Cleveland Institute of Art and, uh, her victimization began before human trafficking. She was in a series of bad relationships. She was seeking love, like many of us are, um, relationships, and she had vulnerabilities. She was bullied as a child, so she had issues with self-esteem. And when she was about 23 years old, she had a boyfriend who introduced her to, um, street drugs that caused her to have issues with mental illness.

They exacerbate, uh, exacerbated an underlying mental health condition. Uh, she was hospitalized at, um, a local hospital in the mental health ward and that's where she met her trafficker. So he had himself admitted, recruited her, befriended her and was in her life and for many, many years. She went missing in June of 2019. He took her from her group home and then she went missing from him. She ended up traveling to Detroit, Michigan where, uh, she was recovered. We Ubered her home from Detroit, Michigan when she reached out to us and said that she wanted to come home. And at that time she was arrested because she had missed a mental health court date. Um, she went missing several times after that. She went all the way to California, to Colorado, California and back. And, um, we recovered her from Allen Park, Michigan.

And then she went missing from the group home in Ohio in November of 2021 and was found deceased in Cleveland, Ohio in an abandoned apartment in February of 20, uh, 2022. Now this individual that, uh, recruited her that, that he, uh, placed himself in that home. Did he do it for that purpose of recruiting people?

Was that the purpose? I don't know the answer to that, but I suspect that he befriended her, um, to take advantage of her, to sell her, to get drugs for himself. Um, I've had police tell me that they, that they loved each other.

I don't believe that. I, uh, I don't think that people really understand human trafficking though. I don't think that Courtney understood that she was a victim.

I don't think that he thought of himself as a trafficker. Um, but he still took advantage of her and by law, that's exactly what he did. And I can't, I can't speak for him and I don't know where he is now, but I know that he manipulated her. He groomed her. He groomed our family.

And I got a civil, I obtained a civil protection order against him. But at that point, Courtney had been become so vulnerable and was actively involved with social media and trying to, you know, date and be in relationships that she was victimized over and over and over again. And I just couldn't keep all of the traffickers away from her, all of the buyers away from her, all of the people who were using her and exploiting her and victimizing her. I, uh, I had watched the story of, um, uh, this woman, her, this, this guy, and he was trained to do this. He had been doing it to, uh, to go out. He was, uh, when these good look and handsome young guys, and he would meet these women and he would like fall in love with them.

He would convince them that, and, uh, he would take his good old time and then he would end up, uh, going to a motel room with her. And then all of a sudden all the guys would come in one at a time and they were charging and they made it very clear that you don't leave here. Now you don't. Yeah. Yep. And that's, that's the model of exactly what human trafficking is. Yeah.

Yes. And, uh, you see, like for some people, for me, it's hard to understand because when, uh, when they would have the opportunity to run, when it, when a time would come, when they were running, sometimes they would be tested. They would just pretend like they had left them alone to see what they would do. And then if they tried to run, they would put the fear into them.

But, uh, others, when they had an opportunity, they would not try to run away. There's a reason for that. Yes.

There is a reason for that. Um, do you want to step back and let us, uh, let's talk, make sure everybody listening truly knows what human trafficking is, and we can talk about and lead to why people don't run. Okay. Well, tell us what exactly is human trafficking? Well, in 2000, um, the federal government put forth, um, there was a big bill and they funded efforts to stop human trafficking. They did a lot of things and it continues to be funded every, all the time when it comes up. And one of the things they did was to find human trafficking.

And there's three parts to it. The, what are they doing is recruiting, transporting, harboring, provisioning, or obtaining a person. How are they doing it through force, fraud, or coercion, which I'll speak to in a second.

And why are they doing it? They're doing it for the purpose of a commercial sex act or for labor or services. And a commercial sex act in this law is any kind of sex act traded for something of value. And that can be money, but it's also drugs. It's also a place to stay. It's food, anything that's being traded for something of value, sex for something of value. So those are the three components of what is human trafficking. And if you notice, it does say transporting in there, but in most cases, that's not, you don't have to traffic them ever. It can be out of the house that they're living in. They're not ever have to be moved. It's really about the recruiting and obtaining and harboring them for sex or labor services.

Now, if you're a prosecutor and you think that you found a trafficker and a victim of that trafficker, the prosecutor has to prove if the, if the victim is under 18, all they have to do is prove that they were recruited, transported, harbored for commercial sex or labor or services. Hold tight. We're going to pick it up right after this. We have a hard break coming up.

So be right back. Miracles start here. Miracles start here. You'll take away your sin. Take away your sin. Open up your heart. Open up your heart. Leave your fears behind.

Leave them all behind. You'll be living there. You'll be living there. Until the end of time.

Till the end of time. Knock and his door will open. Seek and you will find. Ask and you'll be given. Eternal life.

Sublime. He'll be waiting there. His arms open wide. Waiting there for you. Waiting there for you. You are why he died.

Why he died. He'll be waiting there. He'll be waiting there. His arms open wide.

His arms open wide. Waiting there for you. Waiting there for you.

It was for you and I that he was crucified. Already we are back and we're going to be talking about, well we're talking about human trafficking and here we have Jenna Bing, Kathy Gilnits and Carolyn Kinkoff here with us and we're talking about a lot of people think human trafficking's got to do with just trafficking but it's not necessary. Now there's a lot of things. One, who, what kind of a person, what type of person would be the most likely to be human trafficked? Tell me ladies.

I can answer that. It is a person with some kind of vulnerability and those vulnerabilities can range widely but they have some kind of vulnerability that allows them to be manipulated and exploited by a trafficker. Now everybody can be open to be trafficked. I mean it can happen to anyone but there are certain groups that have been trafficked more than others that the people of color, LGBTQ+, immigrants, a lot of commonality is like homeless, runaways. These are people because they have fundamental vulnerabilities going on in their life and this, it's not happening in a vacuum.

Big areas are things like poverty. If you're really poor and you can't feed your family, you're going to take a job that ultimately is not going to, that's going to enslave you and so that happens. If you're very poor and you're like a young girl, a young boy and you see everybody else with new phones, blingy nails, new tennis shoes, all of that and you can't have that but someone comes along and says, I can help you out there.

I know your parents can afford that. Then all of a sudden they're vulnerable and that person can be not a caring person but somebody who ultimately is trying to get into their hearts and minds to traffic them and to do it and manipulate them. So they try and form this bond and this relationship.

So that poverty plays a huge role. Another role is family dysfunction because manipulators are telling them things like, I love you. I want to marry you.

I'm your boyfriend. But if they come from a dysfunctional family, they may not have ever seen what a loving relationship is and may not be able to understand when somebody is deceiving them in regards to a loving relationship. They also may have been themselves abused or seen a lot of abuse in the household and this traumatizes a child's brain, traumatizes anybody that's forced to see that over and over and this history of trauma messes with their head and they don't understand. All they want is like anybody wants.

They want someone to love them and someone to care for them but they are then in a situation that that's not what they're getting and somebody, a trafficker, comes along and says, I'll take care of you. I will help you. I know how to, I love you. Come live with me. And then all of a sudden they turn and they say something like, you know, we don't have money for rent right now. Can you help me with this? And they say, well, I don't know how. I'm not working.

Well, go on a date with somebody. And that will get us money. And the trafficker is turning them and now they're being trafficked.

All right. So let me ask you this because you mentioned something about phones, these smart aleck phones that you have here. And this has been a major cause of the increase in infidelity in marriages, these phones here, because it makes it so much easier to cheat. Now, also, I would imagine this would be quite, quite conveniently used now today with the human trafficking.

There's so much you can do with these phones here. Now, here's the other thing. Uh, some of these people that are recruited, they're recruited to go out, like you said, uh, to go find these, these girls that are vulnerable. And I know we did some years ago, we, uh, we did some programs, we were doing some investigation and they had what they called strawberries. That was young, young girls that were runaways.

And we were working out of many, Minneapolis, Minnesota, at that time at the bus stations, they were, uh, doing programs there. Now they used the element of fear. In other words, when they would train, you know, these people up to go out and recruit these guys, they also threatened, you're going to do it and you've got a quota or bad things could happen to your family. So what do we, do we see that happening here?

What do we see bad things happening to the families of those that refuse? And that, that's what I was saying is that in the federal law, that forced fraud and coercion, uh, come into play because that's what's happening is the trafficker is forcing them into this by beating them, by addicting them to drugs so that then if now they're addicted and he becomes their only source for drugs and they'll do anything for drugs in that situation. They're lying to them.

I love you. I have a good job for you, whatever. And that's fraud. And then coercion is the mental game of it, where they will actually say things like, if you don't do what I say, I will kill your parents.

If you don't do what I say, I know where your little brother and your little sister live and I will bring them into this business. And so people are, you know, threatened and coerced and made to completely fear for their lives from the trafficker who is now in complete control of them. They're master manipulators. We had a situation like that where this was involved Satanism, but it was the same type of thing. You had, uh, this fellow who was working, uh, for this, on this farm for these people. And he was molesting the children. He was molesting the children. And, uh, what he did is he took, they had a St. Bernard dog and he took an ax and whacked the head off the dog in front of the kids and said, that'll happen to your parents if you say one word.

Okay. And, uh, well, I mean, they finally caught the guy, but that, that was bad, but they don't, they use different techniques to do that today. Now, let me ask you this because I've seen situations where, uh, I've been walking by some cars. And, uh, in one case I saw a young woman in there and she was looking and she had tears coming down and you could tell she'd been punched in the eye, either that or her mascara would look like she had a black eye. And she was looking at me and I'm thinking, I was just going to say, are you in trouble?

And the car took off. The guy was, by any way, he took off real fast and I didn't even get a chance to get the license plate number or anything. But so now what do you tell these people that, that are, if they know they're being trafficked, how do you get out of that situation? What do you tell them?

Well, the sad news is that most people don't know they're being trafficked. And if anything, because what they've done to groom them and bring them into the business, the business, his business is to romance them basically and convince them that this is my boyfriend. Now they think it's his boyfriend. This is the person who takes care of me.

This is my girlfriend. This is who's, who's really who's really taking care of me and providing for me. And so if they, let's say, policemen go in and they have a drug bust, but it's more than that. It's more than just drugs.

There's women that are being trafficked there that are victims. The police talk to him about it and all they'll say is he's my boyfriend. And they're like, you know, you're in trouble. And they're like, he's my boyfriend. And Kathy could probably talk to that from what she's seen in the nursing world.

Right. Many times the grooming process starts off, you know, just from the very beginning. And it's just a relationship. But then the fear comes. And many times when they're grooming, they're asking a lot of information about family and friends.

And they're just building a database of how they can turn it around and say, well, I know where your grandmother lives. You told me. And if you don't do what I want you to do, then grandma's going to have a visit from us. So many times this, this process, it is a very slow process, but the needs of that person, the victim have been met.

And many times, like the vulnerabilities, it's your basic needs, clothing, food, shelter, and even a love. Okay. Let me ask you this. So if a girl tells you and you tell her, do you know you're being trafficked? And she says, well, I know, but I, I, if, if I say no, they're going to go after grandma. They've already told me, grandma's going to get a visit. So what am I going to do?

So what do you tell that girl? First of all, I would never ask them if they're being trafficked, um, as a forensic nurse, I would spend three hours on average with a victim, uh, after they have been rescued by a sting operation or the police bring them in. Um, and when I talk to them, I get the history, but if I asked them, which I will never ask, are you being trafficked?

Their answer would be probably a hundred percent. No, I just got myself into a bad situation. I wanted a place to stay. It was called couch surfing. And what they ended up doing is just a nice warm bed.

When Cleveland weather is really crappy, uh, you don't want to be out in the cold every single night. You want a bed, you'll do anything for that bed. They go in there thinking it's a nice guy. He's giving me, you know, a place to stay.

He may even tell her, Hey, you know, I've been there, so I'm going to return the favor and let you stay with me. Once they're in the house, they are told, you know, here's your bed. Here's, you know, breakfast in the morning.

Now you owe me. And this is when they manipulate. Okay. So when you're talking about this, when you're talking about this, you know, it sounds like what you're saying, the majority is, is it's small time, uh, where you've got a guy, he may be, he may have two or three girls that he's using. But now I've seen situations where they've had these farms, uh, way out in the middle of no place, these big farms. And they've had a lot, a lot of girls.

Okay. Uh, sometimes they're not way out in the middle. Sometimes there's some years ago, right there in mineral, Ohio, uh, there was a witch covenant, a large, which covered it was very large, but the witches were also prostitutes. They, they were making money, uh, on the side.

And so, uh, but that was a big organization. So what do you run into? What are the majority of them? Just these guys with two or three girls or what it runs the gamut. Yeah, it runs a gamut.

It can be one guy with one girl. It can be all the way up to organized crime and gangs that are involved in this, um, and anything in between, anything in between. That's why it's how pervasive it is.

It is that pervasive that it can be all different sizes. The one commonality, they all view it as a business and they're all there to make money. And they consider these girls and boys that they're trafficking, these men, these women that they're trafficking as product to sell. And they view them that way. They brand them. I understand they've started microchipping them. They're doing all these things to claim they're my property. And then they will trade that property to somebody else. You know, she's been she's been here too long.

You want her, you can have her. The branding is tattoos. Many times it would be a crown. It is dollar signs, a bag of money, daddy, because many times they try and make it look like a family, especially with a victim that, you know, had a dysfunctional family. Um, they show, Oh, we have, you know, everybody calls each other's sisters. Uh, if there is multiple, uh, girls or young boys, uh, they're the brother. Um, and the worst, uh, tattoo that I did see was a barcode and it was on the back of the neck of the girl.

It's usually on the lower lip, the face, the neck, uh, the upper shoulder, the upper arms. So they can show possession to other people, to other traffickers and to the community. I bought this and just like that barcode, you scan it in a store, you pay your money and you take that out of the store.

You can do anything you want with it. And they view them as that kind of product. And you ask, why don't they leave?

Here's the, here's the rub. They are completely, after they've been groomed and they're finally in this business for sex trafficking for this guy, they are completely dependent on that trafficker for shelter, drugs, money, food, everything. He has separated them from everything that they knew and they're completely, he's completely controlling them. So complete control of him and absolute fear of him at the same time creates this trauma that just like shuts them down. They can't leave. It's like the Stockholm syndrome that you get, but that's how come they don't walk away.

They're scared to death. If they walk away to what they have nothing, they'll just be back on the street and somebody else will take them up. And many times when it's a runaway child, they'll say, nobody's looking for you. You're not on the news.

Nobody cares about you. And sometimes they've come from a dysfunctional family where nobody really is even looking for him. So then some of these people do, so you see that they're trafficked. And I know of cases where, uh, pretty soon, uh, they've been going on and they kind of worked themselves up, even though they were a victim, they worked themselves up to where they're a part now of the business. And, and, uh, you have these women now that are running these things.

So, okay. So tell me this, obviously they're using the women for sex. You say trafficking men, what are they using these men for? Well, um, they do have sex trafficking of men and boys, but there's also the same dynamic happens in labor trafficking also. It's the same thing where you have a master manipulator controlling everything about them.

They're just, what they're doing is they have, um, they're using them and putting them under debt bondage. Like you have to go work in the field. You have to work in my convenience store. You have to work in my fast food restaurant and wash dishes.

You have to help do all the cleaning at the motel rooms, et cetera. They're under somebody's control though, so that they aren't making that money. They are making that money to give to him. Are these people usually people that are safe, maybe don't speak English or, or maybe from a foreign country and they've got no, no family, no relatives? In labor trafficking, there is an awful lot of immigrants and that's one of the reasons they don't leave is because the big threat there, um, which is a form of coercion is if you don't do what I say, I will turn you into ice. In any papers they've had, the trafficker has taken control of.

So they can't even prove anything about themselves because he's hanging on to all the important papers. And so yes, some of it is, um, driven an awful lot by the, uh, immigrant status that they have. Now the good news is if these people do, um, the government has provided visas that are called T visas that if you, T visas? T visas.

Yeah. That are, um, if you are a victim of, of labor trafficking and they break the, and they find you and they break the labor trafficking thing, then there are visas for those people to be able to stay in the United States, um, because they're victims of trafficking. It doesn't have to be immigrants. Uh, you can have a natural disaster like something in Florida and they could be recruiting, uh, people like in this area and say, okay, well, how about if you come down to Florida with us? You clean up the process down there. You can enjoy the beach in the evening and make money. And they think, well, I can leave this area.

I don't have any, any strings attached here. At least I'll have a job and I'm doing a good thing. They get on, you know, in a van and they go down to Florida and they're in central Florida maybe. And the beach is not even close by. They're working long hours. They're treated wrong. They may be living 20 people to a house and they, the trafficker will bargain with, uh, a construction group and say, you know what, we'll bypass all the paperwork and you just, uh, give me the money and I'll give it back to the boys or the young ladies or whoever is working for them. And sometimes with the work, they'll say, I'll have a girl here and the hardest worker will get the girl for the night. And those people never get paid. They're down there now enslaved and beholden to him.

And they have no way of back and they have no way back and they have no money on them and they may not even have any, um, identifications. Well, that's, that's interesting. Okay. Uh, if I'm out, if I'm walking out through a mall and, uh, I'm sad, I go through the parking lot out there and you've got all these people, all these cars, how likely is somebody out there? There's been human trafficking in that mall or in that, uh, I mean, how prevalent, what I'm trying to say is how prevalent is this here in Ohio?

Well, it is prevalent. I'm, um, I'm not quite sure about the mall. I want to say that people are, um, the, the traffickers are looking for vulnerable people and they look for them still to this day in person, looking for vulnerable people at malls, at parks, at schools, at libraries, et cetera. They also look by following all those chatting areas on like Instagram and Facebook and all of those TikTok, whatever the kids are using, where they're chatting, they are looking for vulnerable kids. They're looking for somebody who says, my mother hates me. She won't let me get anything.

I just, I hate living here. Boom. He starts to, he or she starts to groom her and starts to build a conversation and build trust and build a relationship all online and then finds a reason to be able to meet up with her. People have found there's, you know, they'll keep notes in a notebook because they're probably grooming multiple people at one time. So they need to keep these straight facts straight, you know, and they'll say, you know, something like one girl say, well, you know, geez, I love puppies. My friend got a puppy and he'll go, Oh, I got a puppy.

He didn't have a puppy. He's just saying that and going to use it probably as an excuse to get her to meet in person. Again, what about these people we've seen where they've got the boiling rooms and whether we have these people that have to work answering phones and making calls and they're in there. You see this or any of these people, would this be something typical where you would have these human traffickers with a situation like that? I haven't seen, excuse me, I haven't seen that in the United States, but I have seen, there's a great program, it's called trafficked by, I'm going to say your name wrong, Mary Ann Van Zeller.

And I don't remember if it was she that covered it or another news story, but they did have, they do recruit people to make these phone calls to scam people. So that's why it's really important for us to be here tonight so that, you know, Jenna is explaining a lot of what human trafficking is. And there are a lot of myths and we can tell you what human trafficking isn't.

But as you know, pastor, it's insidious. So human trafficking can intersect with drug trafficking. Everything is not human trafficking. Sometimes there are scams that are not human trafficking. There can be domestic violence, sexual assaults, exploitation, and even sextortion now. A lot of times they're going after our young men and they are, or the boys and girls, they pretend to be somebody else on the smart alec phone, as you called it. And they're threatening them. And children are taking their lives by suicide because of these threats.

And it's really a scam. It's not human trafficking, but it's harming our children. All right. So what it boils down to that, if you're, if you're caught up in one of these things, whether it's prostitution, what other, uh, if you're allowed to walk away, it's not human trafficking, but if you're not allowed to walk away, then it's human trafficking. That's not correct.

No, no. So Courtney was never chained. She was never forced to stay. She did have a quota. You mentioned a quota earlier. She did have a trauma bond with a man who she believed was her husband in Detroit, Michigan.

Um, I did research and I reached out to the clerk of courts. There was no, um, there's no marriage. There was, there was, it was not legitimate. But if she didn't make her quota, she had to sleep in alcoves or abandoned buildings. She was, she was not permitted to come to their, their apartment and spend the night there. But it didn't matter if it was labor trafficking or sex trafficking. Her supposed husband didn't care how she made her money.

Um, she, it was before COVID. So she would panhandle during the day, which is labor trafficking. She would save enough money to go to the convenience stores and buy like drinks and snacks. And she would sell those items to bar patrons as they were leaving bars at night. So she could get enough money for the day to sleep in her own apartment with this supposed husband. So it's not what, it's not always what you think it is. And most often it's hidden in plain sight. So these people are not chained.

They're not tethered. Um, they don't realize that she could have come home. She could have come home to you and your husband anytime and said, look, uh, and, and she could have been safe. I mean, you could have gone, she did come, she did come home when she had had enough and she just couldn't deal with that life anymore.

And that's when she would come back. So what we have to understand though, is that if there's a dysfunctional relationship or family, sometimes people are leaving from situations that are even worse than what they're going to. So it's, it's really sad. And a lot of children, sometimes there's familial trafficking. Um, uh, children and adults can be trafficked by their own families. It can be generational. It's just, there's no cookie cutter answer.

There's no red flags. There's no, um, you know, formula for what this looks like. It can be look, it looks different for every single victim. Now you use the word prostitution. And, um, I had this discussion with some police officers not too long ago. Um, I, um, I do not think that there is what was, you know, prostitution. I'm just going out and deciding to sell my body. I think that is very rare.

I just do not think that's what's happening anymore. If they are out there and I say, well, I need money. So I'm going to go sell my body. I guarantee you someone is going to come by and bring me into trafficking. And they are going to take control of me and take that money for themselves. You, you cannot have somebody just street walking on their own anymore or prostituting on their own. Someone is controlling them. Now I, there are there are professional sex workers is what they call themselves.

And they have, The Bible calls them whores. You know that. Right.

And, but they call themselves professional sex workers. I watched the thing on back, back door. Yeah.

There was like an expose. And we hang tight. Cause we're coming up to a heartbreak. We will be back right after that heartbreak. And then we'll pick it up right here.

You can pick it up right where you left off. And then we're going to open the phone lines and take some calls right back. Thank you for listening to what's right. What's left the voice of the Christian resistance to support this ministry and to WRWL.org. That's WRWL.org. Mail your donations to what's right. What's left ministries, 14781 Sperry road, Newberry, Ohio, four four zero six five. If you missed part of tonight's program, you can check out the podcast at the word, cleveland.com the word cleveland.com. Once again, thank you for listening and supporting what's right. What's left ministries, the voice of the Christian resistance. Stay tuned. The second hour is coming up next.