The following program is sponsored by What's Right, What's Left Ministries, and is responsible for its content. Portions of the following program may be pre-recorded. I'm Pastor Ernie Sanders, the voice of the Christian resistance. Stay tuned. My radio broadcast: What's Right, What's Left is coming up right now.
Coming to you live from Independence, Ohio. Changed our life for the better in many different ways. Heard around the world every Monday through Friday. Castor Sanders is always years ahead of the rest of the media, telling you exactly what they're covering up. This is what's right, what's left.
I tune in every chance I get to hear exactly what's going on with the voice of the Christian resistance. Unabashedly cutting through the rhetoric by exposing the hard topics facing our society and world. A lot of the other news media don't pick up the news items like he does. And bringing to light the enemies of freedom who are helped to steal your rights, your children, and enslave you. You.
You really get the truth out. I can tune into your show and hear the unvarnished truth. Thank you. This is What's Right, What's Left, with Pastor Ernie Sanders. Good evening and welcome to another edition of What's Right, What's Left.
on this twenty third day. Is it the twenty third or twenty fourth day? No. It's the 24th today. It is the 24th day.
Okay. See, now I'm testing him. I keep him there. by defeating his worthy opponents his colleagues that is He was, once again, he won the privilege of producing tonight's programme. And that is style.
Congratulations, style. Thank you very much.
Okay, you All right, very good.
Now tonight we have a special guest here with us tonight. Uh he is the president of Life Training Institute. And uh he's going to be speaking at Bringing America Back to Life. and that's march thirteenth and fourteenth. That's Friday and Saturday at the Embassy Suites in Independence, Ohio.
and that address and that was fifty eight hundred Heroxide Woods Boulevard and It's right off I seventy seven and 480 where they come together there. That's the largest Port Life conference in the country. Are you there, Scott? I am here. Good to be with you, Ernie.
Well, it's good to have you here. You know what I did? I'm changing my scripture up tonight. for you.
Now Yeah. You have said that you. I want to be known for causing people to reinvent the word of God, but hey, I go with what you're doing. Yeah, well, we don't re reinvent it. We we use it, we just use different parts of it because it is the greatest source of wisdom, knowledge, and the only ultimate authority in existence, and that's God's Word.
And so we're going to now in your training Uh You teach people how to give a good defense of the proliferation, is that correct? Correct.
So what I'm gonna do is we're gonna take you right to God's word the Bible. I'm going to give you some Bible verses. And then you tell me how you could use these Bible verses to defend Or or two. Uh make your polite prolight position. You ready?
Sure. All right. We're going to start, and one you probably know very well. Genesis chapter 1 verse 27 and 28 God created man in his own image. In the image of God created him him, male and female, created he them.
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth, and subdue it. and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing. that moveth upon the earth. How do you use those too? Uh defend a pro-life position.
Well, I think it's very important to start with the first premise, and that is that all human beings have value, meaning intrinsic dignity, Because they bear the image of God. Scripture is very clear about that. Genesis 1 says that. And you get it elsewhere in Scripture, even in the New Covenant, in James chapter 3. And because humans bear the image of God, this leads us to the second premise we want to put out there.
The shedding of innocent blood is strictly forbidden. Exodus twenty three teaches that. Proverbs six teaches that.
Now, with just those two points, that all humans have value because they bear the image of God, and Because they bear the image of God, the intentional killing, meaning the shedding of innocent blood is strictly forbidden. We only need to ask one question. Are the unborn human? If they are, the same command against shedding innocent blood of image bearers applies to the unborn as it does everybody else. And we know from the science of embryology the unborn are indeed human beings.
Therefore they too are image bearers. exactly as what you just read. All right, very good.
Now, we're gonna take go to what you just said. uh about the killing For many, many years I taught Biblical law, and Here, when you ask most people where do we get the divine institution of human government, the vast majority, unfortunately, so many pastors. don't really know.
Well, the answer to that was God gave us that divine institution in the Noaic covenant. in Genesis chapter nine.
Now in there He makes five points very clear. The first point was To whom did he give that? And the answer you find here In Genesis chapter nine, starting with verse nine And behold, I establish my covenant with you and with your seed after you, and with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, of all every beast of the earth, With you from all that go out of the ark to every beast of the earth. and I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more. By the waters of the flood, neither shall there be any more flood to destroy the earth.
Well, he goes on. Uh to say so he gives you that the the fact that he makes his covenant with all men for perpetual, perpetual generations. Um And all living things for perpetual generations. In fact, he says. And God said, This is a token of the covenant which I make between me and you.
And every living creature that is with you for perpetual generations, meaning that is the only one that spans every dispensation period.
Now the second point that he made in that was uh the intent. The intent was that man was to govern for God, And the third point, now this here is your point. This is the entire purpose. the entire purpose of divine human government we find in verses five through seven and also in this Uh we get the statute of the death penalty. And so Let's read.
And surely your blood of your lives will I require at the hand of every beast, will I require it? And at the hand of man At the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood by man, Shall his blood be shed? For in the image of God made he man, and you be their fruitful multiply and bring forth abundantly in the earth, And multiplied therein.
So now, two points are made here very clearly. This is the third time. from Genesis 1 that he says to be fruitful and to multiply.
Now God has commanded that we be fruitful and we multiply Uh, compare that with the Roe v. Wait, right? But Here The major point is The entire purpose of human government, and we're talking about real government, divine government. Is to preserve the image of God that is being man.
So, how would you use that?
Well, I think two ways. The first is to reiterate and reinforce what I said a moment ago. that the Lord takes the shedding of innocent blood very seriously. And if the unborn are human, And they are killed through elective abortion, that is the shedding of innocent blood, and that is not something the Lord looks lightly on. And I think that's an important point because of this.
A lot of Christians mistakenly believe that sin is sin, all sins are equal, and there aren't any sins any worse than any others. And, you know, I think we all know on the face of it, that's a silly argument. Stealing a council is not the same as murdering somebody. But what they mistakenly do is they assume that because we all equally share a sin nature, That therefore the sinful acts that spring from that sinful nature are morally equivalent, and they're not. There are some things God takes.
particular offense at, and the shedding of innocent blood is one of them. If you look, for example, at Proverbs chapter six, The shedding of innocent blood is described as something God hates. in the first chapters of Isaiah. You hear the Lord telling his people that he's not going to listen to their prayers because their hands are polluted with blood. I mean, Scripture is replete with example after example Of the shedding of innocent blood being particularly egregious to our Lord.
And you've just cited one verse that makes that very point. All right, very, very good. Proverbs chapter twenty-four. I know you're familiar with this verse. Um Verses 10 through 12.
If thou faint in the day of adversity, Thy strength is small. If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn into death, and those that are ready to be slain, If thou say'st, behold, we knew it not, Doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? He that keepeth the soul, doth he not know it? and shall he not render to every man according to his works?
Now Here, this has got two applications and The way today that a lot of these pressy preachers, and I mean pressy preachers, Uh The way that they Avoid Justifying this passage of scripture is they tell you. that this is only in a spiritual sense. Not in a literal sense.
Well, that couldn't be farther from the truth. Uh and so here pardon? Yeah, you're right. It can't be further from the truth. It's very clear.
It's very clear in that passage that we're talking about physically seeing and observing something in front of us. It's not something mystical. In fact, the verse clearly warns, if we claim we haven't seen We're going to be held guilty before the Almighty. Absolutely. Absolutely.
I want to go over now here. to uh Proverbs 31 verse 8 and 9. Here, open thy mouth for the dumb. And they now that word dumb means th s the voiceless, the voiceless, the ones that can't speak for themselves. in the cause of all such as are appointed Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead cause of the poor and the needy.
Uh go ahead.
Well This is something that a lot of Christians don't want to look at, honestly. They want to treat an issue like abortion as a political issue. And they say, Well, I don't want to get involved in politics.
Well, the first thing I would say to them is the Christian worldview applies to all of life. Not just some of life.
So our Christian worldview should be informing our political positions. But beyond that, Notice that what God is demanding of his people is that they do something. on behalf of those who are suffering injustice. Those who are in need of our help, the Lord isn't going to look the other way if we ignore their pleas. All right.
Let's go to another very popular passage, Jeremiah chapter one. Verse five. Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee And before thou comest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Uh did you know Scott? That you and I are older than Dirt.
Did you know that? I feel it some days now that I'm over sixty. Yeah. Yeah. The Bible clearly states that, that God before the foundations Before the foundations of the earth, Ephesians chapter 1 and 2.
He knew us, and that we existed in the mind of God, And we we even had a name We were predestined. before he even created the earth, okay?
Now here he's making a point with Jeremiah, that before they formed thee in the belly, I knew that so now if God recognizes your personhood. Are you a person?
Well, I think with that verse, we do need to be a little bit careful because I think it's primarily speaking to God's foreknowledge, not our personal identity before we actually came to be. I don't think that versus teaching we existed before we were conceived. I think it's pointing out that God in his foreknowledge recognizes and knows all humans that will come to be because he's an omniscient being.
Well I think the verse is very important in helping us understand That God has plans and purposes for each human that He knows will come to be. where the existence was in the foreknowledge of God, that A God everything anything That appeared in the mind of God Was just as real, the foreknowledge, as anything you could feel, or touch, or hear, or see.
Well, it's real in the sense God knows it because He's omniscient and has. the ability that we don't have to foreknow things. All I'm saying is, I don't think the verse is teaching we existed before we were conceived. I think it's saying God knew. We would be here before we were conceived because he's all-knowing, all-powerful.
Oh, okay. I mean, I'm not I'm not saying that we existed in heaven someplace. What I'm what I'm telling you is that In the mind of God, we existed. That was. It's like anything else before.
Before you build a building, you have a blueprint and you you put it down on the paper and then Uh and so it was in the mind we were in the mind of God long before uh he even created the earth.
Now I'm going to take you to a little harder one. Are you ready for the little harder one? Sure. Jeremiah chapter 2, and I'm going to read you verses 33 through. thirty seven.
Okay. Why trimmest thou the way to seek love, Therefore hast thou also taught the wicked ones thy ways? Also, in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents, I have not found it by secret search, but upon all of these. Yet thou sayest because I am innocent Surely his anger shall turn from me, be cold eye plead with thee because thou sayest I have not sinned. Why gaddest about too much?
Change thy way, thou shalt be ashamed of Egypt, as thou was ashamed of Assyria. yet thou shalt go forth from him and thine hands upon thine head, But the Lord hath rejected thy confidences, and thou shalt prosper shall not prosper In them.
So now here. What is God doing? He's making a point with Israel. And he's using Israel.
Well, let me jump over to one other verse, verse 20. For of old time I have broken my yoke and bust my bonds, and sittest I will not transgress when thou upon every high hill, or under every green tree, That wanderers playing the harlot numb. He's using Israel as a type. of a woman here That's An unclean woman. A woman who is a pro-death, pro-death.
Now I don't, you know, I never use the word pro-choice because that word is a lie. You know. Just uh in just like Planned Parenthood. Even the name is a lie. You know, you're either pro-life or you're pro-death.
You're either up or you're down. You're hot or you're cold. Uh the opposite of life is death. In fact, He tells you in the Scriptures here All of those that hate God love death.
Now here he's giving you these women as a type of the of a a woman who is pro abortion, who is pro death. and her skirts are filled with the blood of the innocents here.
So Uh today, would you apply that to people, let's say, like Hillary Clinton?
Well, what I would say is, as I read that passage, it's part of a larger indictment God is giving against his people. That's what we see happening in the opening chapters of Isaiah and in the opening chapters of Jeremiah. And isn't it interesting that the shedding of innocent blood is a core centerpiece of that indictment? That is, as I said a moment ago, God takes particularly Uh Bad, or I should say it's particularly egregious to God, the shedding of innocent blood. And I think here we have another example of it.
God's saying, hey, I'm indicting you. You're going to be led captive. And here at the center of this indictment is, again, another example of the shedding of innocent blood. I will say this, that I agree with you that pro abortion politicians revel in child killing. they not only weakly defend it, we're long past the days, Ernie, of people saying abortion should be safe, legal and rare.
Remember that cliche? Oh, yes.
Now what we have are people wearing T shirts part of a campaign called Shout Your Abortion. Where they'll give a number. I saw a number the other day on a shirt of woman who had had 16 abortions. And she was proud of it. And I think this is the kind of evil the Lord sets his heart against big time.
And the church should be willing to call that evil out for what it is. You know, that's more than Whoopi Goldberg. Whoopee Goldberg openly bragged about how many abortions she had. Uh I remember one time some years ago, for for forty five years, I was on the streets during the week, weekly during the weeks, in front of the abortion mills preaching. We closed down a bunch of 'em.
And and here And I uh was always in a confrontation with a lot of these And I come across some of the most wicked woman, and I'll Never forget we had a br a new pastor was out for his first time. He was a A real godly pastor, one of a quite influential pastor, well known. And this was his first time. to come out with me. And And so he came out and this young woman I came in and as I was witnessing to her she She started cussing and cursing.
And she said, What I do with my own blankety blank is none of your blankety blank business. And she said, I've already killed six babies And today this will be the seventh. And I said, If you know you're killing your babies, why are you doing that? She says Because I have the right. And I told her, No, you don't have the right I said, That child belongs to God and I'm going to listen to you Listen to me pay close attention.
God has said God has said, because you are unrepentant, if you died you would burn in hell for ever. And uh You know, that was it. That shut her up. That was the last she said. She didn't say anything, she just walked away.
But that's reality, is it not?
Well, that's the reality for all of us outside of Christ and His atoning work. We are going to get what we deserve, which is eternal separation from God. By default, we as human beings are not good people. We're bad people, and that's Paul's entire case. in Romans chapters one through three.
The entire human race is in ruin. because of its rebellion against its creator. The religious people, the Jews, they pretend to have the laws of God, but they don't live up to them. The pagans Can claim ignorance, they think, but they really can't because God's moral law is written on their hearts. neither Jew nor Gentile lives up to the light they have, And God is going to hold us accountable, the only solution is that God has provided a righteous substitute.
who stood in our place condemned to bear the wrath of God that we all deserve. And that woman who Spoke to you at that clinic. and said, I don't care. I'm killing it anyway, is a woman who is Blocked up in her sin, and if she doesn't repent, She will get the wrath of God as her just reward. The good news of the gospel is Those of us who are the vilest spinners, And I'll count myself in there.
If we repent and look in faith to the Saviour, We can escape the wrath of God, be reunited with our Creator and spend eternity with Him. All right, very good.
We're up to a break. Hang tight. We'll be back right after this. Um What a cold. winter's morning on a sidewalk in the city.
A lost soul approached me. as the storm was Yeah. I could see the look of death. It was there in her eyes now.
So I began to preach. She began to speak. You turn your eyes. I'll admit it. I've gone to kill my baby The whole world is telling me.
But I have that right. For deep down inside me I have to read. what you're preaching. Children are a gift of God. We gotta give them life.
So I put my arm around. And I gave her the gospel. It was right there. In the darkness that she perceived. You go light.
A few souls. We're safe. Both her and her baby. It is called the Jews. You had better learn to do it, right?
You got to know. Not just the police name. Don't try to walk away from this. But it's wrong. You guys are able.
He's the keeper of your soul. He's got the Son.
Now every preacher knows the rock of his salvation. I'll separate the ghost from all the shit. All men are sinners. They all need the Savior. To be only one to trust in, with your soul that he'll keep.
And when I finish the preacher, woman was a believer. A baby in her womb I knew she would keep. And now, 25 years later, Her baby is a young creature. She's a very proud of the baby that she decided to keep. You got to know how to please him.
Not just to please him. Don't try to walk away. He ain't challenged your cluster. The reason why you're aiming for me. He's the keeper of your soul.
And he's got something. You got to know how to please. You gotta please. Not just to please him. Don't try to walk away You better.
account. Control blessings. And do it while you're able. He's the keeper of your soul. He's got the son.
You've got to know you how. Not just a piece of you. Don't try and walk away from me.
Nowhere to run. You better come to your own love. Definition while you're at. He's the keeper of your soul and he's got the soul.
Alrighty, we are back, and my guest tonight is Scott Kusendorf, and he's going to be speaking. He's the president of Life Training Institute, and he will be speaking. uh, this comi Friday, March thirteenth and uh Fort Mar Friday and Saturday, march thirteenth to fourteenth, at the Embassy Suites in Independence, Ohio. at fifty eight hundred Rockside Woods Boulevard. That's right off Rod I-77 and I-480.
For more information, you can call. Cleaving right to life at two one six six six one. three thousand Uh Scott, that song you just listened to. That song is a true story. That happened Uh Samir's Yo um probably back in the mid early eighties.
There was a It was a snowstorm. and it was very early in the morning it was still dark out about this time of year it was still dark out and I was in front of the the abortion mill. I got there early because they would try to bring him in early. And here uh right along the rapid, and as I I looked down the sidewalk, I saw this woman coming in. There was the light behind her, but you could see like an aura of darkness, like an aura of death.
and she was walking towards me through the snow.
So it's you got up close. I said, You've come here to kill your baby, haven't you? She said yeah. And uh I said, Why why are you gonna do that? She says, Well, because they said my baby would be born anesthepolic without a brain.
And now I said, Oh Now this was a white woman. And I says, Well, the father was is a black man then, huh? She said, How did you know that? I said, That's what they tell all the white women that get pregnant by black women here. It was a common thing and for the black women they had a different story.
And uh I said If you go in there to kill your babies, the chance you're gonna die too. That happens every now and then here to you know, the wages of sin or death. And I said, if you died in there, Yeah. Where would you spend eternity? She said, I'd go to hell, wouldn't I?
I said, Yeah. Yep. Jesus. What What can I do? And I said, Well, repent of your sin and receive Christ as your Savior.
I mean, that's the only thing. How do I do that?
Well, I told her. I didn't ask her to get on her knees. It was snowing out. It was probably six, seven, eight inches of snow. but she got on her knees on the sidewalk, I took my head and repeated and said the sinner's prayer, Receive Christ as your Saviour right there on that sidewalk.
and she sent me pictures of her baby Adam, and today he's he may even be a grandfather by today. I don't know. This was. Oh, this was so many years ago. But apparently, he ended up to be a preacher.
What do you think of that?
Well, thank God, first of all, you were there in obedience to the Lord to rescue those being led to the slaughter, and you were able to uh speak with her and intercept her in her way in.
So amen. By the way, that song that you just heard, that was that was me. Uh I sang that I wrote and and recorded that song.
So you got almost the Johnny Cash vibe going with that one. Yeah. Yeah, that's what a lot of people say. I I there's a couple of songs I sing It sounded a lot like Johnny Cash. Uh, I do the one that's called Judgment Train and, uh Well, you'll have to hear it sometime.
Anyhow, It's time for me to turn this over to you for the rest of you're going to be here with me till eleven. And then you know what I'm gonna do? I'm going to open the phone lines and and uh now I've I've been watching. I've had the volume muted, but I've been watching President Trump give the State of the Union address. And I've noticed a couple times now th it's been that the Democrats have stood and applauded, and I'm absolutely curious about what he said, because for the most part, They're they're not looking too good, okay?
And so I I gotta find out.
So when I open the phone lines we'll have people calling from coast to coast to tell me What he said. For but until then, Tell me what you're going to be doing there on the thirteenth and fourteenth.
Well, I'm going to equip the prolifers that are there how to make a case for what they believe about the unborn in a way that nonchurched nonreligious people can understand. One of the big hurdles we have in today's culture, Ernie, is that people today think that the pro-life view is strictly an act of article of faith. It's just an act of blind faith. and they don't think we actually have reasons for what we believe. And so I'm going to give everybody there a pro-life argument that they can state in a minute or less.
They'll leave there knowing how to. to make a case for the lives of the unborn in a minute or less. And basically, when you think about the case Prolifers present, here's our argument stated formally. Premise one. It's wrong to intentionally kill.
innocent human beings. It's wrong to intentionally kill innocent human beings. Premise two, abortion intentionally kills. innocent human beings. abortion intentionally kills innocent human beings.
Conclusion. Therefore, abortion is wrong. It's wrong to intentionally kill innocent human beings. Abortion does that. Therefore, it's wrong.
Now what you notice about that right away, Ernie, it won't work for a critic to say, well, that's just your religious view. Wait a minute, that's a fallacy because arguments are either sound or unsound, valid or invalid. Calling an argument religious is a dodge. It's a category mistake like asking how tall is the number five. You gotta do the hard work of showing where the argument goes bad.
And most of our critics, Ernie, aren't up to that task. They're just lazy. And by the way, we don't just state our argument, we defend it with science and philosophy. We argue from science that from the earliest stages of development, meaning the one cell stage, You, Ernie, were a distinct living and whole human being. You weren't part of another human being like skin cells on the back of your hand.
You were already a whole living member of the human family, even though you had yet to grow and develop. And it's also true that though you differ from the embryo you once were, you don't differ in ways that justify killing you back then. Differences of body size, your level of development, your environment, meaning where you're located. and your degree of dependency are not good reasons for saying we could kill you then, but not now. I mean, think about it for a moment.
In fact, if you want to remember these four differences, you can think of the acronym sled as Stephen Schwartz has suggested. S L E D. Size, you were smaller as an embryo. But since when does body size determine whether you get to live or die? Two-year-old kids are smaller than 20-year-old young adults, but we don't think the two-year-olds have less value.
Simply because they're smaller. For that matter, think of basketball stars like Shaquille O'Neal. in years by years gone by played And he's seven foot two. He's a foot taller than most of the people listening to this show tonight. But does that mean he has a greater right to life than us simply because he's larger?
Well, what about your level of development? There's your L and S blood acronym. Yes, you were less developed as an embryo.
So, how developed do I have to be not to be killed? A two-year-old girl does not have a developed reproductive system yet, but she's not less human and valuable because of it. I speak to a lot of teenagers at high schools. And I'll say to those teenagers, you're less developed than your parents. You're less developed than your parents physically, and you're less developed than your parents intellectually, which, by the way, comes as a complete shock to many of them.
But you don't reach your intellectual peak until you're mid forties. Does it follow mom and dad have a greater right to life than you simply because they are more developed? What about E, your environment? Where you are does not determine what you are. You know, a lot of people think that somehow if you change from inside the womb to outside the womb, that's a magical journey that just voila bestows value on you.
But that's just absolutely silly. Think about this for a moment. We are now doing surgeries. On um Babies in the womb. for herniated diaphragms and the like, and here's what we do to fix it.
The surgeon will remove the child from the womb. Fix the herniated diaphragm, then put the kid back in the womb where he will be born normally at 40 weeks. Does that child go from being nonhuman and nonvaluable before the surgery to briefly becoming valuable and a human being while he's outside the womb for surgery and then go back to being nonhuman again when we put him back in the womb? I mean, this is the absurdity of people trying to argue that where you are has any bearing on what you are. And finally, degree of dependency, sure.
You depended on your mother for survival, but since when does that matter? How does dependency on another human being matter? mean that we can intentionally kill you. There are examples of conjoined twins that share each other's bodily systems, and they cannot be separated. But if we're going to argue that you have no right to life until you can live independent of another human, then neither of those twins has a right to life and you can kill both of them.
Size, level of development, environment and degree of dependency are not good reasons for saying we could kill you then, but not now.
Now, notice, Ernie, I did not quote one Bible verse. Did you hear a Bible verse? No, uh-uh. No, I I gave a scientific and philosophic defense for the prolife view.
Now, does it align with Scripture? Of course it does. I was conveying biblical truth. I just wasn't citing chapter and verse. And I think that's what we have to start with with a lot of people today who don't accept church authority or biblical authority.
We start with what they can understand. And they may come back at us and say silly things like, Well, you're a man. What right do you have to speak on the issue? I've had. I've had.
Uh That absolutely Sherrod Brown's wife said that to me. Yeah. That yeah, you're a man. The snarky side of me wants to go, Well, how do you know that I'm a man? How dare you judge my pronouns, right?
I don't say that, but the snarky side of me wants to. But the reality is arguments don't have gender, people do. Arguments stand or fall on their merits. not the person making them. At Life Training Institute, I have three women who work with me, and they make the same exact arguments I do.
So you can't dismiss our argument simply because you don't like the gender of the person making it. Oh, and by the way, if no man can speak on abortion, Roe v. Wade should have never been handed down because who decided Roe v. Wade? nine justices on the Supreme Court, all of whom were males.
So this is a very silly argument. It's an attack on the person rather than the actual argument. Another thing people will do is They'll say, oh. You're against abortion? How many unwanted kids are you willing to adopt?
None? There goes your whole case. Wait a minute, let's go back to our syllogism we gave you a moment ago: that it's wrong to intentionally kill innocent human beings. Abortion does that, therefore, it's wrong. Could that argument still be a good one, even if I don't give a rip about kids once they're born?
And the obvious answer is yes, because the argument stands on its merits not the person making it.
Now, of course, pro-lifers are willing to adopt, but suppose I wasn't willing to adopt. How does my alleged unwillingness to adopt a child justify you killing him? That's the problem with their argument. They attack the person, but they don't refute the argument. And this is the age we live in, sadly, where people don't want to do the hard work of engaging an argument, they just want to attack the person making it.
Alrighty, so I'm going to give you some facetious arguments. You ready? Uh, here now don't you know, Scott, that Adam wasn't alive until God breathed breath into him. And so those babies aren't alive until they breathe their first breath. I've actually had.
Some Jewish liberal Jewish A rabbis make that statement to me.
Okay, which They're they're quoting Genesis chapter two, verse seven. And they're trying to make the argument that until you breathe air, Through the lungs, you're not a human being, you're not alive, you're not a person, because after all, that was true of Adam.
Okay, here's my response to that person. I agree with you. Everybody that God directly creates out of the dirt of the earth. is not living until God breathes into them. Were you created that way?
Is that how you came to be? And of course, the obvious answer is they didn't come to be that way. The first man God created right out of the dirt. And that man did not breathe until God breathed through his lungs.
Okay, that makes perfect sense. But it doesn't follow that all human beings came to be that way. That's how Adam came to be. And by the way, if you're not human and you have no value until you can breathe oxygen through the lungs, that would mean a baby who's first. Moments out of the womb where they are not yet breathing, which is why the doctor will.
Sometimes give them a little gentle tap on the rear end to get them breathing. that would mean you could slit their throats until, you know, they get spanked. That's a silly, silly argument for people to make. One of the arguments I make is I I debated an abortionist one day on a television talk show. And uh that's the what she said.
It's not a human And it's not alive. unless until it breathes. And it says, really? Let me ask you a question, then, and think about this before you answer. if it is not alive, Then why do you have to kill it?
You can't kill something that's not alive.
So why don't you just leave that baby alone I mean, if it's not alive. What do you have to lose, right? Essentially another way you could go ahead. Go no, go ahead. No, you go ahead.
Another way to put that is to say dead things don't grow. This thing's growing in there. It's got to be alive or it wouldn't be growing. And by the way, we can also point out that the unborn do in fact breathe in the womb. It's just they take oxygen.
Through the umbilical cord. It's kind of like switching from AC current to D C current. Just the mode of oxygen exchange changes.
So even on their own terms, that argument doesn't work very well. What about this one? That baby was conceived because of rape. by a criminal. by a wicked, evil, ungodly criminal.
And why should you raise a child? That was conceived by a godl ungodly, wicked, evil criminal. Go ahead.
Well, two types of people are going to bring up rape. The Crusader. Which would be the kind of person you just uh painted a picture of. and then the inquirer, and you're going to treat them differently. Let's start with the inquirer.
She has heard your pro-life argument. She's actually buying into it. She agrees it's wrong to intentionally kill innocent human beings, that abortion does that, therefore it's wrong. She also agrees with your science that the unborn are distinct living and whole human beings. She also agrees that philosophically, there's no essential difference between you, the embryo, and you, the adult, that justifies killing you back then.
But she's having a psychological hang up. With thinking about, well, what if my 14-year-old little sister got pregnant? Would I really want to force her? To carry this child to term when it will remind her forever of what she went through. Do I really want to force that on her?
We're going to be very gentle with the inquirer. And the first words out of my mouth are gonna communicate a lot of empathy. I'm gonna say something like this, Ernie. I'm gonna say, You know, you and I both agree that that woman who's been sexually assaulted has suffered a terrible injustice. We also agree.
that it's possible her child could be a painful reminder of what she went through. I agree with you on that. We both agree on that.
So given we agree on those two points, How do you think of civil society? should treat innocent human beings who remind us of painful events. And I just let the question hang there. And what's great about that question is, it gets her thinking about a larger worldview issue, and it gets her out of the You know, the immediacy of the heat that's associated with the whole rape question. And after I let her think about it for a moment, I'll say, is it okay to intentionally kill them so we can feel better?
In other words, does hardship justify homicide? Can we think of any other case where it'd be okay to intentionally kill an innocent human being to make someone else feel better?
Now, we're agreeing with her that rape is painful. We're agreeing that carrying this pregnancy may be. Traumatic. We're agreeing with all that. But at least by asking that question of how a civil society should treat innocent human beings that remind us of something painful, we've got her thinking the right direction.
She may still wrestle with it psychologically for a bit, but we Put the right question in her mind. The Crusader Like the person you just described, doesn't want a rational answer. He just wants to make you look bad. He wants to make you look like an extremist by bringing up rape. I'm going to call his bluff.
I'm going to look at him and say, okay, let's grant for the sake of argument. It's not my position, but let's grant for the sake of argument. that we allow abortion in cases of rape. Will you then join me in opposing all other abortions that have nothing to do with rape? 100% of the time, his answer will be no.
Women have a fundamental right to an abortion. they have that right, and I'm going to fight to see to it they're able to exercise it.
Okay. Well, if your real position is that abortion is a fundamental right that should be available for any reason or no reason for all nine months of pregnancy, Why don't you defend that position rather than hiding behind rape victims?
So I'm going to call his bluff. Very good, very good. Uh you know, I had the same questions asked me in debates and My answer was: well, you know, that would be a good question for Franco Harris. In fact, he was asked that question. And for Ethel Waters, she was asked that question.
Those are two examples. Right. And how did they answer?
Well, Yeah. Franklin Harris said. Why should I? lose my life. Because somebody else committed a crime.
And so and Ethel Waters had a similar answer, okay. It makes us no less human beings, right? Uh, and so, um, yeah, that's what it's totally illogical to when you have one person commits perpetrates a crime upon another, So what do they do? They take an innocent third party. This sounds like something our Democratic Congress would do.
In fact, It is what they're doing. Uh you know They wanna they they'll fight and defend killers like Di Mangiano. who who murdered a man in cold blood, they'll defend him. uh and and his and try to get him off. But An innocent person They want to kill.
I mean, and that's. That opposition comes right from The word of God where it says, Those that hate God love death. and I think that's where the entire pro death movement stems from. Yeah, it is a hatred of God, that's for sure, and his creation.
Well, you see with a a lot of these feminists They they hate God because somewhere along the line They feel that they've been rejected by man. They can't touch God. They can't touch Him. And the most they can do for us is to make us miserable. At least they try, right?
So they want to go to the the most innocent. The ones that mean the most to God, and those were the children that mean the most to God. Uh and those uh are the ones they go after to kill little children. Boy, uh Yeah, go ahead.
Well, it's interesting to me. You look at history and it seems to me that Satan has always reveled in child killing. Oh, yeah. And you see it going all the way back to the time of Moses when Pharaoh slaughtered the innocents. You see it at the time of the incarnation where Herod did.
You see it in the Canaanite. nations that and and sadly even God's own people practiced killing children as sacrifices. Then historically, you look at, for example, someone like The German bombing of London during World War II. Hitler did not target military targets, he targeted central London. And Churchill saw it, and he got the kids out of there.
That's why we have the stories of the evacuees that went out into the English countryside to get away from. a very evil dictator who was hell-bent on killing them. And so it shouldn't surprise us as Christians when we encounter people. Who seem absolutely committed to intentionally killing innocent human beings? This is part of what happens when you have unregenerate hearts that grow harder and harder with time.
They refuse to repent. and they do not turn to the Lord in saving faith. Their hearts get calloused, and this is what we're seeing. And the interesting thing too, these people that uh the like the last nine school shooters have been what they call transgenders. Uh most of them have been men who thought who were wearing dresses, you know, I mean but one was a woman who thought who thought she was a man.
Uh but they wanted to kill children. Yeah, and notice that the worldview of the human person in play. Is the same in the abortion debate as it is the transgender debate. In the abortion debate, we're told the physical body of the unborn doesn't matter. They have to be persons, meaning they have to have cognitive awareness.
They have to see themselves existing over time or they're not human. That's the view of Peter Singer, Michael Thule and a whole lot of other abortion advocates at very high levels.
Now think about the transgender debate. A man can say, I'm a woman trapped in a man's body, and the culture believes him, as if somehow his identity is separate from his body. But that's not the biblical worldview. On the biblical worldview, our bodies matter, and they are part of our identity. They are not separate from us, they are part of us.
And it's in both cases, it's a denial of the body. It's almost a form of cultural Gnosticism. where we separate the physical from the spiritual, And we only place value in that which is not part of the body. Absolutely. It's almost like whatever makes sense.
You know, whatever God's word the Bible says good, they'll say evil. In fact, that's exactly what it says in Isaiah chapter 5. Uh you know, and and again Really, actually it's a form of Satanism. But we're out of time for this. I want to thank you for being here.
Be looking for you on the 13th and the uh fourteenth. As we bring America Please come up and say hello. All righty.
Well, God bless, my friend. And uh We'll be looking for you. Have a great day, night. Already, we're uh We're going to be Uh here going to a break in a minute. When we come back from the great break, I would imagine style you've been listening to.
Uh the entire uh Okay.
Well, it's kind of hard to listen to both of us. Yeah, I haven't been able to listen at all.
Okay. Well, what we're going to do is we're going to. open up the phone lines for the entire rest of the program, and I want to hear woo w 'cause I heard the first hour. I heard the very first hour and uh I want to hear what people have to say because I've been watching the The expressions on the faces of the Democrats. But I gotta n I gotta know what What it was that Trump said that And I c I counted three times.
What it was that he said th that actually had Democrats, even Pocahontas. stood up and and applauded. This is what I'm I gotta find out. And so Once we're coming up to the break, I'm gonna uh I mean it's still the He's still going on, the speech is still going on. I I mean, it's been two hours.
This has been a two hour speech. There we go. There you go. In fact, you know, my I've had the T V muted and now upon the screen There's has come up and says, Are you still there? It's, you know.
Off the internet. All right, we're coming up to a break. We will be back right after that break. With a whole lot more, so don't go away. More to come.
Six, five, four, three. Two. One. Bye back. Thank you for listening to What's Right, What's Left, the voice of the Christian Resistance.
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