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Trust in the Lord Part 5

Viewpoint on Mormonism / Bill McKeever
The Truth Network Radio
January 11, 2020 10:02 pm

Trust in the Lord Part 5

Viewpoint on Mormonism / Bill McKeever

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January 11, 2020 10:02 pm

From Dallin H. Oaks, a member of the First Presidency, is this talk titled “Trust in the Lord: For our only sure reliance is to trust in the Lord and his love for his children.” October 2019. Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson take a closer look at this talk that was included in the November … Continue reading Trust in the Lord Part 5 →


His teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism hoping you're having a very pleasant Friday. Welcome to this additional viewpoint on Mormonism on your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Eric Johnson.

My colleague at MRM today we wrap up our look at a conference message given by Dallen H. Oakes, who was a member, the first presidency titled trust in the Lord.

There were a lot of things in this message Eric that we can certainly critique in were trying to get as many of them in this five-day series that basically folks it has to do with the fact that there are a lot of teachings and Mormonism that Dallen Oakes wants members to think are merely speculation that they don't really have all the answers he mentions at the very beginning of his talk about a woman who wrote them a letter who was very concerned about what her living arrangements were going to be in the hereafter.

Because she was sealed for eternity to a man who is sealed not only to her but also to another wife was she going to be with both of them in the next life, and you can understand why that would cause a bit of concern by many Latter Day Saints women.

It is a definite doctrine, Mormonism noticed that Oakes is not denying that arrangement of her being with another woman and her husband in eternity, but he doesn't give her the answer.

All he tells her is just trust in the Lord. The fact is there aren't a lot of clear answers to some of these teachings and Mormonism and that's what Oakes is trying to get across. Don't speculate about either the preexistence or even what's going to take place after this mortality.

Unless of course is been clearly defined in the standard works and so forth. And what we're arguing is a lot of this angst is caused by comments made by leaders themselves and that brought us to a statement in this talk, where Dallen Oakes cites Elder Christopherson D Todd Christopherson who is a Mormon apostle who said it should be remembered that not every statement made by a church leader pastor present necessarily constitutes doctrine and of course what that leads to is a lot of speculation and a lot of confusion, especially when it comes to teachings that the prophet, the leader of the church has made later was rescinded or at least ignored or contradicted afterwards in one of those issues we want to talk about is this idea of whether or not God is increasing in knowledge many of you might not be familiar with this.

But that was a real issue in the 19th century Mormon church. Yes, there was a difference of opinion between these leaders. Let me give you second Pres. Brigham Young, who in 1867 in the Journal of discourses, volume 11, page 286 says this. Some men seem as if they could learn so much, and no more. They appear to be bounded in their capacity for acquiring knowledge is brother Orson Pratt has, in theory, bounded the capacity of God according to his theory.

God can progress. No further in knowledge and power, but the God that I serve is progressing eternally and so are his children. They will increase to all eternity. If they are faithful now.

It's interesting because he mentions Orson Pratt who was an apostle and this is what Orson Pratt says in the Sierra book that he wrote page 117. The father and the son do not progress in knowledge and wisdom because they already know all things past, present, and to come now of the fourth president of the church. Wilford Woodruff sided with Brigham Young on this. This is what Wilford Woodruff says in the discourses of Wilford Woodruff page 3, God is increasing in knowledge. If there was a point where man in his progression could not proceed any further.

The very idea would throw a gloom over every intelligent and reflecting mine.

God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge power and dominion, and will do so worlds without end know what's fascinating about this is that in August 1853 Orson Pratt again made the statement that know God and his understanding is going to progress in knowledge. He said this he said there are none. Among them, speaking of the gods plural that are in advance of the others in knowledge, though some may have been gods for his many millions of years as there are particles of dust in all the universe. Yet there is not one truth that such are in possession of. But what every other God knows they are all equal in knowledge and in wisdom and in the possession of all truth. None of these gods are progressing in knowledge, neither can they progress in the acquirement of any truth of this is found in a book titled conflict in the quorum and I would highly suggest this book.

This whole book talks about how Orson Pratt in particular was in disagreement with Brigham Young on a couple of big issues. One of them is this issue of whether or not God is going to progress in knowledge. Brigham Young, as you said Eric did teach that very clearly Wilford Woodruff, later to become the fourth president of the church also taught that God was progressing in knowledge Orson Pratt vehemently disagreed with this and this is what raises my question regarding the statement that Dallen Oakes cites of D.

Todd Christopherson, it sounds like you can't really trust with these leaders are saying unless, as he implies up on page 28 of the inside in the November & 2019. Elder Anderson, this is apostle Neil Anderson what is he say the doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the first presidency and quorum of the 12. It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk okay the obscure paragraph of one talk but what you do when you have two prophets say that God increases in college would you do with that.

So you have a profit. Brigham Young and then you have another leader, Wilford Woodruff, who later becomes the fourth president who agrees with what Brigham Young is saying then you have Orson Pratt who was an apostle who vehemently disagrees with Brigham Young. What you do with that.

Who are you going to believe I would estimate that most of the people living during the time of this conflict, believed Brigham Young not Orson Pratt but yet who's teaching one the day. Mormons don't believe that God is progressing in knowledge today.

While I should take that back. I have talk to Mormons and to believe that and I've had to try and correct them that that is not with the church teaches as a whole that they are believing something that has been repudiated limit give you an example. Joseph Fielding Smith the 10th president of the church in the book doctrines of salvation volume 1, page 8 says where has the Lord ever revealed to us that he is lacking in knowledge that he is still learning new truth discovering new laws that are unknown to him. I think this kind of doctrine is very dangerous. I don't know where the Lord is ever revealed such a thing. It is not contained in any revelation that I have read obviously has not read the journal discourses or the discourses of Wilford Woodruff, who both said exact opposite of what he has said here when he asked the question, where is the Lord ever revealed to us that he is lacking a knowledge my answer to that would be well he obviously Brigham Young's telling us the truth be revealed to him you would think that would be a revelation that Brigham Young at least claim to have goes back to my question. How does the poor Latter Day Saints disorder.

Through this mock client and that's not the only issue that they had Orson Pratt Brigham Young disagreed about Adam being God and we talked about that on this show very controversial teaching, but certainly Brigham Young called that a doctrine Orson Pratt vehemently disagreed with that and went against him and I think this is the unfair thing, though, because in the last century we don't see latter-day St. leaders publicly airing differences.

The doctrinal differences they may have. But you have to think that there are differences. Wouldn't you like to be a fly in Salt Lake City and when these guys are discussing issues.

I have to think that not all 15. Even though they might raise her right hand and say they agree there are some of them who are say no way. But privately they just either that they don't bring it up or if they do bring it up we don't get to hear it and that is why I think most Latter Day Saints today think that all of these 15 are on the same page all the time. I guarantee you that in the 1960s when the civil rights movement was at full force. Not all of them agreed that they should continue to ban Blacks from holding the priesthood. It wasn't until Spencer Kimball gets in control in 1975 Spencer Kimball made the decision to build a temple in Brazil, where everybody has some kind of black heritage so why would he have done that in 1975 before the revelation took place in 1978 because he knew had everybody in line, but it wasn't done until Spencer Kimball came into power.

I wonder too how many Latter Day Saints are familiar going back to the conflict between Orson Pratt and Brigham Young that Orson Pratt should have become the third president of the Mormon church. He should have and if the church followed its tradition, which I admit at this time the tradition was pretty short.

I mean the church had been around all that long, but the tradition is that the senior member of the Council of the 12 becomes the next president. Upon the death of the president will Orson Pratt was in line to become third president, but because of the disagreements he had with Brigham Young. Brigham Young did something very interesting. He rearrange this seniority based on a conflict with Orson Pratt earlier which dealt with Joseph Smith going after his wife Sarah and because of that conflict. Brigham Young rearranges his seniority to put some of down in the pecking order.

So when Brigham Young dies in August 1877 Orson Pratt does not become the third president, John Taylor becomes the third president you have to ask the question was that based on Revelation or was that based on politics, so I think it's pretty clear that that decision was made on politics. Brigham Young had a bone to pick with Orson Pratt and that's why he did what he did, he did not want to see Orson Pratt become the third president, but the point that I think needs to be made. Not only is there confusion for the latter-day St. to try and discern who's telling them the truth. You also have the politics as you mentioned here about who becomes the next president. In this particular situation, but then also what you do with the fact that both Brigham Young and Wilford Woodruff's position have been rejected that their positions have been rejected by the church because the Mormon church does not teach today that God is progressing in knowledge were going to suggest that you read conflict in the quorum Orson Pratt Brigham Young Joseph Smith. It's available new hardcover on Amazon you get for $25 Kindle you get for $10's a readable book for a layperson, but if you're somebody who thinks that the church leaders have always gotten along.

This is going to show you some pretty interesting information that you might never have known. In light of what Della Noakes is said you can be sure folks, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, they don't have all the answers. In fact, a lot of their confusing doctrines has led to the fact that they don't have a lot of answers. At the same time when these questions come up. What does a leader of the church tell the concerned member will just trust in the Lord, you have to ask yourself is that a satisfying answer on issues such as the one that he brought up in this conference message. Thank you for listening you would like more information we guarding him in his research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website you can request our free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint is how would you like to have Mormonism research ministry gesture church on the subject of Mormonism. MRM still McKeever and Johnson have spoken in many Christian churches. All of the country. You see, they can tailor their presentation to meet your churches means anything from a one-day basic introduction to what we can symposium you will find these PowerPoint presentations clear articulate and presented in a Christ honoring fashion.

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