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March 19, 2020 9:54 pm
Point is to examine the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism. Every religion seeks to answer the question Riordan we all come from the LDS church teaches that all people preexisted in heaven with the father before we were born, but the Bible teaches something very different. The Bible teaches us that man did not have life until after God created the world. The Bible says that when God created the world, he formed man of the dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being. In other words, Adam was nine and the living being, until after he was created by God and was filled with the breath of life. The LDS church says that we were spiritual beings first and then were born into natural bodies with the apostle Paul says the exact opposite. Comparing Adam and Jesus teaches us that it is not the spiritual that is first the natural and then the spiritual first man was from the earth, man of dust, the second man is from heaven, or physical natural birth precedes any spiritual existence, not the other way around. What you just heard was an excerpt from one of several excellent videos that you can find it. God loves Mormons.com welcome to this additional viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM, but we also have the producers of those videos rich Sanford and Bradley Campbell and they have been kind enough to talk about what they have produced and we are really excited about these videos because we feel they're very good at very concisely explaining some intricate teachings of the LDS faith delves into some of the historical issues as well so we wanted to introduce you to our audience and hopefully people will go to God loves Mormons.com and subscribe to your channel and I want to mention to you that at MRM we believe in you guys so strongly that we have incorporated your videos throughout many of our articles. In fact we have in a through Z guide through many of the explanations preexistence. For instance, we have your video update weight we just heard part of it and so and also on our YouTube page. We have incorporated a lot of their videos so we at MRM. Highly recommend these videos and we don't just recommend anybody so that hopefully is a stamp of approval that other people who normally listen to us will give you guys a chance and see what you guys have to say the doctrine of preexistence, of course, this is a very unique teaching at least the way it's understood. According to Mormonism.
What motivated you in producing a video dealing with the subject. Why did you do the first reason is that I had a handful of people had come out of Mormonism come to saving faith in Jesus Christ that were growing. They love the word, they began to articulate the gospel very clearly and somehow months, or even in one case years later after after becoming believers, we found out that they believe in the pre-existence and was never thought about his never came up in conversation and picking up on the table one time a couple years after a good front of us and gotten saved in.
She just said wait wait wait: week we don't believe in the preexistence of Thing of all goodness, what we do realize we haven't talked much about that.
It's one of those things that sometimes seems the last to go of parts of Mormon doctrine, so we don't mean it as an introduction. The first thing I bring up on the street with a person, necessarily, but it is the kind of thing that people just want to know what the Bible actually say about and I do think that there are significant doctrines that are tied up into that.
I want you per existence that are really helpful to deal with.
That's why we made a video and also found that this doctrine influences the way we talk about salvation often because at the idea of preexistence is that we are all children of God, literal, spiritual, and because of that some of the particulars of salvation. People say what kind of father would do this are either have emotional objections to bits of the gospel on the basis of us at one point began getting back to the father, exact, and so dealing with preexistence sometimes becomes a part of sharing the gospel because we have to establish we are not initially inherently children of God. We must be adopted as sons. I think you raise an excellent point them out because it just shows how bad theology can infiltrate a lot of other theology gentlemen as I did influences at the very right and I've had a lot of Latter Day Saints do just that. They'll say for instance while I can imagine a good loving heavenly father punishing his children and I've mentioned many times on this show a conversation I had with nucleus gentlemen in front of the Fresno California Temple who use that argument, and when I raised the subject of the war in heaven, demons, and I asked him who do you think was cast out were those not God's spirit children that became the demons he had to stop and need never even thought about that before that 1/3 of all that for one mistake our view of eternal families that she much fuller 100% of God's children will be in heaven with him in the end, and that that's that summing its I don't think many moments of thought through some of the implications of that and so we we wanted to not only help the Mormon is thinking about this, but also help other Christian in conversation with them on friends or even any verses in the Bible that speak to this since we heard from people out so we want to help them with this.
What what would you bring up with that topic was to come into the conversation. I might start back in Genesis 2 the creation of Adam where it says that after he was formed from the dust of the earth. God breathed the breath of life into him and at that point it said, and he became a living creature is not a living creature. Prior to that whatever he was prior to that it was just was not yet living. I start the very beginning about how typically very quickly get to Jesus and the reason this is essential for us is because there is only one who has ever seen the father is only one who knows the father only one is ever heard his voice descended from heaven clear language of Jesus. He says at one point in the Gospel of John. You are from below.
I am from above. You are of this world.
I am not of this world and that is just such a clear statement is a great person considering preexistence. Richie, you raise an interesting concept here when you talk about all of God's children are going to be in heaven, and of course we look at the children of God is, those being born again in the New Testament censorship and even in Mormonism. That's not true because even though Mormons like to feel that because they are loved by heavenly father.
He would never cast them out. He doesn't, in effect, do that even in the context of Mormonism by these three levels of glorious adventure and if you were only good enough to get into the terrestrial kingdom. The second level of these heavens God the father never to look at you again.
You're going to be there and you will never have any type of relationship with God the father ever again.
Now Jesus is, the floater he goes between celestial and the terrestrial, but the idea of being with heavenly father, you can forget that many of his presents for forever correct. I brought that up with some Latter Day Saints and again that seems to be a subject that they tend to either not know about or want to ignore. I had a few. After weeks of studying this with them them coming back will finally admit, well, technically the terrestrial kingdom will be like hell for you. The reason is because you've always known you could have done better in my: let's call this what is it heaven and hell that offensively ideas and so you see how this kind of view invade so many other parts of production to really does. I see this as being Hinduism's affect on Mormonism you have Ye are gods perfect and he was telling the truth. He and all that said they could become gods and that would be the future of what Mormons hope to have. But the idea that how you acted in a previous life had an impact on where you would be born. What kind of family you would have and everything else and just based on your obedience to Jesus as being the Savior of the world, rejecting Lucifer you were smart enough to be able to figure it out here. Therefore, you can be born according to your merit and I just I find that fascinating because in this regard, Mormonism is more like Hinduism than it is Christianity. So it's an embarrassing walk that with people occasionally think that the view it's our time to try to's lien on the language that were all children of God and for the record, I try not to hammer the person says children of God and what they mean by that as well. Human were made in the image of God, we let that pass the us that yes there is a sense in which were children of God, and in that way. Reason is the father of all creation.
Yes, but the New Testament picks up in the language and makes it way more salvific states and again adopted into the family of God. One of the verses that I've often heard Latter Day Saints bring up that they feel supports this view that we lived in some kind of a preexistence state is one of God the father and heavenly mother's we should throw her in there as well. Is there spirit children. Ms. Jeremiah 15 before I formed the numbering from the Joseph Smith translation which I have to explain again translation is," but reads very similar to the King James version before I formed in the belly I knew the and before thou came us forth out of the womb I sanctified the and I ordained the a prophet unto the nations. Latter Day Saints will say see before you were formed. I knew you so obviously that's talking about a father-son relationship.
How would you respond to that. I think that it's critical to note that the text does not say that you knew me talking more about God's sovereignty and knowledge that it is talking about that the very nature of Jeremiah. You don't need to get more than three chapters in the Bible to find that the word no and knowing the Hebrew. He is him for intimate knowledge of and suffuse all throughout the Bible to refer to that often limits even the sexual activity between a husband and wife, thinks it's meaning more than just I had a knowledge of its intimate knowledge of yes no Christian would deny that God had an utterly perfect intimate uncorrupted knowledge of Jeremiah prior to never be informed of the women we've always held this affect our views of God's foreknowledge and what he knows about the world prior to you making it in all his purposes and that make that pretty clear to us that he's not saying that he had a relationship with Jeremiah. A mutual knowledge relationship with Jeremiah. I like bringing in Job, Job 38 is when God first addresses Job out of the whirlwind. God says this where were you speaking to Job where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth. And then he says when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy a couple verses later so gotta say where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth where were you when the sons of God, or the gods, sing together, and in them in a Mormon context and an view he's right there.
He's he's somewhere that never should be utterly meaningless in the context of a preexistence if Jeremiah was present and that's what Jeremiah 15 is saying that they knew each other and he was right there. They interacted Jeremiah said I'll go down I'll be the prophet that Job 38 is utterly meaningless at the point is, Job wasn't there. He was not with the rest of the heavenly beings he was, not yet existent and the same is true for Jeremiah we been talking to Rich Sanford and Bradley Campbell. The producers of a number of excellent videos dealing with the subject of Mormonism. You can find firstname.lastname@example.org but rich. You're also a pastor's right here in Salt Lake Valley wanted to talk very briefly about your church. Where is it located in Whittier services. Should anybody want to visit I the great privilege of being a pastor at the mission church in South Jordan and that we seven enormous heart for of the Mormon people and that's a major part of our ministry is just preaching verse by verse to the Bible, not only for the benefit of strengthening believers here in Utah but also as as a means to be helpful in reaching the lost Mormon people that we love and Aaron shuffle all of who works with us here at MRM as well as air Johnson attends there's rich owner thank you for coming on and explaining some of the videos that you have, as well as the opportunity that we've had is a ministry to introduce what you are doing through these videos. I'm sure they're going to have an incredible impact are done very well, folks, and I strongly encourage you to go see email@example.com. Thanks for being on. Thank you for listening. If you would like more information regarding this research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website at www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you will join us again as we look at another viewpoint is