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Christmas Book Citations Discourses of Brigham Young Part 2

Viewpoint on Mormonism / Bill McKeever
The Truth Network Radio
May 8, 2020 2:24 pm

Christmas Book Citations Discourses of Brigham Young Part 2

Viewpoint on Mormonism / Bill McKeever

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May 8, 2020 2:24 pm

We are into the seventh week of a series focusing on books given away to other general authorities and church employees by the First Presidency between 1981 to 2017. If the First Presidency thought these books were worthy of being reprinted using expensive leather covers and gilded pages, they must be reliable and worthy to … Continue reading Christmas Book Citations Discourses of Brigham Young Part 2 →

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.1 examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism. What did Pres. Brigham Young believe regarding the Bible. Welcome to this additional viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM yesterday show we started looking at a book titled discourses of Brigham Young. It was compiled by a Mormon apostle John a with so and it was given away as a Christmas gift by the first presidency in the year 1992, and that's what we been doing in this series we been looking at these books that were given away as Christmas gifts with the premise that if the first presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints feels comfortable enough giving a book to other general authorities as well as employees in the LDS church.

They must believe the book has value doctrinal value well this book. As I said was given in 1992. Today we want to look at what Brigham Young had to say in this book regarding the Bible. Now, you might say when you hear these quotes that those quotes don't really sound all that bad and you have to understand that this book what it does the same thing that a lot of manuals do in the LDS church. They take a quote and they just shotgun them out there and so you don't get a lot of contacts and sometimes you don't get a lot of explanation. Let's begin with what he says regarding the Scriptures, beginning on page 124 Eric together number of things that he says the first one comes from journal discourses, volume 13, page 214, the Bible in the Bible are the words of life and salvation. Now if you were to bring that statement up to a latter-day sink, just as it reads there. How many latter-day Saints. Eric do you think would agree with you on that while they might say they agree, but they really do believe in other scriptures as well. And if you're going to talk about the one of the four Scriptures that has the least amount of authority when it comes to heirs that it may have, it would be the Bible to point to, but yet it was Joseph Smith himself, though, that said that a man could get closer to God by abiding by the precepts in the book of Mormon take that statement by Joseph Smith compared to this one by Brigham Young and I would tend to think that Joseph Smith probably wouldn't have agreed with that statement as it reads.

I remember there's no qualification with this is just that portion of the statement that was taken as you said, from volume 13, page 214 of the Journal of discourses and I might mention again folks that the discourses of Brigham Young. All of the quotations are taken from the Journal of discourses 26 volumes of sermons that came out in the 19th century. Another quote from page 124 of discourses of Brigham Young. It says but I want to know if we agree with with the teachings of the Bible in our belief and practice. The Latter Day Saints believe in doing just what the Lord has told them to do in this book yet isn't that the main controversy here because when Joseph Smith started coming out with these revelations that he himself claimed were never wrong. A lot of the Christians during that time. Were recognizing what he was saying is not coinciding with what the Bible was teaching and folks, this is why when you hear latter-day St. leaders qualify what they're about to teach by saying this is ladder a revelation with the really telling you is is you're probably not going to find this teaching in the Bible but yet Brigham Young makes it sound in these quotations that everything Mormons believe can be found within the New Testament within the Old Testament another one at the bottom of page 124 says this take the Bible just as it reads and if it be translated incorrectly and there is a scholar on the earth. He professes to be a Christian and he can translate it any better than King James translators did it.

He is under obligation to do so. If I understood Greek and Hebrew as some may profess to do, and I knew the Bible was not correctly translated I should feel myself bound by the law of justice to the inhabitants of the earth to translate that which is incorrect and give it just as it was spoken anciently. That's a fascinating statement for Brigham Young to make because Joseph Smith didn't seem to feel he needed to understand Greek and Hebrew in order to give us what's known as the Joseph Smith translation Joseph Smith's understanding of Hebrew was very remedial, as well as his understanding of Greek. He was by no means a scholar. The reason why I find this statement to be so fascinating though is because latter-day prophets are supposed to have the ability to translate as well. This is why Joseph Smith felt fully qualified to give us his inspired version of the Bible, otherwise known as the Joseph Smith translation, but when he says if you can do it better than the King James translators you're under obligation to do so. Here's what I find perplexing. Many times when you bring up a citation from the Joseph Smith translation and its tends to show Mormonism in a bad light.

It's not uncommon for the latter-day St. to just brush it off by saying, well, you know, Joseph Smith never finished it and that's why we don't use it as a bound volume, even though they do use the Joseph Smith translation in footnotes in endnotes in their addition of the King James. What I don't understand is if the latter-day prophet of Mormonism has the ability to translate as Joseph Smith felt he had that ability to translate pools to prohibit a person like Brigham Young to merely add to what Joseph Smith started and give us a complete translation of the Bible so that they would quit using that bad argument that Joseph Smith never finished because Smith himself said in volume on page 368 of the documentary history of the church that he did finish his translation of the Scriptures, though, I want to reread what he said if I understood Greek and Hebrew as some may profess to do, and I knew the Bible was not correctly translated I should feel myself bound by the law of justice to the inhabitants of the earth to translate that which is incorrect. Let me ask you this question regardless of the Joseph Smith translation or the ability of the prophet of the church to translate that without using the Greek and Hebrew, but aren't there scholars at Brigham Young University who do know the Greek and Hebrew, who could possibly come and give us maybe better than what the King James did in 1611, to be able to produce a Bible that would be more what would you say air free then what we have now have every ability to do that, it seems, yeah, I think you raise a good point. The Mormon church certainly does have its own scholars how good they are in comparison to other scholars out there can be question if they can produce a better Bible in their some scholars that have actually done this. Why is it that the LDS church is not recognizing these as an official translation for the church body. They haven't as far as I know, but I have to say selfishly. I'm glad they haven't because they do use the King James version, and though it is older and it's hard for many people to understand. It is a decent translation of what the original Greek and Hebrew had and I would say if they did produce her own translation we might run into the same problem where the watchtower Society produced its own version called the New World translation and they incorporated their presuppositions into the translation of the Scripture and its horrendous translation and I would not recommend it for anybody. So for me personally. I hope they don't have a new translation that they would say is now our official translation. I hope they continue with the King James, what are the reasons why I think that they will never get rid of the King James, and I think you stated it is a bit more difficult to understand because of the language being older in its course the King James English is not the way we speak today. I would think that the church kind of likes it to be difficult to understand because if Latter Day Saints felt encouraged to read a translation that was much easier to understand.

They might start doing so, and realizing that what it says in the Bible does not really reflect Mormon doctrine, despite statements by Brigham Young to the contrary, I think they like the difficulty of the King James in order to keep the people in darkness when it comes to what the New Testament has to say on some very important doctrines. Here's another quote.

This comes from journal discourses, volume 17, page 46 and is found on page 126 of discourses of Brigham Young take up the Bible compare the religion of the Latter Day Saints with it and see if it will stand the test. Do you agree with that test bill we been doing that for over 40 years Eric and we been finding that it certainly does not stand the test. In fact, that statement from Brigham Young take up the Bible compare the religion of the Latter Day Saints with it and see if it will stand the test that quotation is on every one of our bimonthly newsletters Mormonism research because we are putting Brigham Young statement out there and then the content of the newsletter tends to show that that statement can't be true one another quote. This comes from journal discourses, volume 14, page 200. It says the doctrine that we preach is the doctrine of the Bible. It is a doctrine the Lord has revealed for the salvation of the children of God.

And when men have once obeyed it, deny it, they did night with their eyes wide open and knowing that they deny the truth and said it, not the councils of the Almighty sword tend to cut both ways, wouldn't that mean also that if the latter-day St. is believing things that are not really in the Bible regardless of Brigham Young statement. I mean when he says the doctrine that we preach is the doctrine of the Bible you can say that if he wants, but that's a statement that we can carefully examine and even critique and that's what we do here but the fact is, when he says that it is the doctrine the Lord is revealed for the salvation of the children of God. And when men who have once obeyed it. The Bible deny it, they deny it with their eyes wide open. Wouldn't that tend to condemn every member of the LDS church that is believing something the latter-day prophet has told them when it conflicts with what the Bible has to say. There's one more on page 126. I think we should examine Eric and it's at the bottom of page 126 and discourses of Brigham Young. There is no clash in the principles revealed in the Bible, the book of Mormon and the doctrine and covenants. It goes on to say, and there would be no clash between any of the doctrines taught by Joseph the prophet, and by the brethren. Now if all would live in a way to be governed by the spirit of the Lord all do not live so as to have the spirit of the Lord with them all the time and the result is that some get out of the way first of all to save there's no clash in the principles revealed in the Bible, the book of Mormon and the doctrine and covenants.

This just isn't true. I mean even Mormon scholars have admitted that there are some troubling statements between what say the book of Mormon and the doctrine and covenants on the doctrine of polygamy.

For instance, or even him in the doctrine of God is there one God.

He was eternally existent as God or not.

There are some conflicts there and certainly we been pointing out conflicts between the Bible and a lot of these other books for years and years when he says there would be no clash between any of the doctrines taught by Joseph the prophet, and by the brethren. Now if all would live in a way to be governed by the spirit of the Lord will how does he qualify that the spirit of the Lord. Of course would be confirming what Mormon leaders are saying so in other words, you can't get away from what latter-day revelation is telling the member. If you do, that's when you get out of the way as Brigham Young says towards the end of that statement. Thank you for listening. If you would like more information regarding this research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint is as with most Christian organizations. This research ministry depends on the generous financial support of friends like you if you like what we do and how we do it, would you consider helping a more immediate financial obligations really go to my website MRM.org and the right you'll see in doing click there and follow the instructions. MRM is a Christian nonprofit 501(c)(3) organization and your gifts are tax-deductible, and only that they are greatly appreciated.

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