Prophecy of War Part 4

Viewpoint on Mormonism, the program that examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from a biblical perspective. Viewpoint on Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism Research Ministry. Since 1979, Mormonism Research Ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's Viewpoint on Mormonism.

What circumstances led to the American Civil War? Welcome to this edition of Viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director of Mormonism Research Ministry, and with me today is Eric Johnson, my colleague at MRM. This week we've been looking at an article that was written by a 70 in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a man by the name of Matthew S. Holland.

As we've mentioned, Matthew Holland is the son of Mormon apostle Jeffrey R. Holland, and in the August 2021 edition of Liahona Magazine, he has an article titled Prophecy of War, Prescription for Peace. Mr. Holland believes that the specifics of Section 87 in the Doctrine and Covenants, which speaks of coming war, is proof that Joseph Smith was indeed a prophet of God. And as we've been talking about this week, we don't feel that what Joseph Smith was believing and saying in Section 87 was really all that unique, especially when it comes to the coming tensions between the North and the South, because Joseph Smith, living in Kirtland, Ohio at the time, was in the vicinity of a newspaper known as the Painsville Telegraph, which predicted that there was probably going to be secession of the southern states from the northern states. It was an article titled The Crisis, and it was printed in the Painsville Telegraph.

Painsville, Ohio was not that many miles from Kirtland, Ohio, where Joseph Smith was living at the time. Now, there were some things in Section 87 that I found Matthew Holland seems to gloss over, and I want to talk about those today. First of all, let's go back to verse 5 in Section 87. It reads, And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves and shall become exceedingly angry and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation. Now, at first reading, if you understand that the Lamanites are considered the ancestors of the American Indian, that this may be talking about the American Indians who are vexing the Gentiles, and we know there was certainly a conflict for many years in American history between the Native Americans and, as they would say, the encroachment of the white man on their territory.

That certainly led to a lot of what have been called Indian Wars and such. But there's an interesting comment on page 195 of the manual, Doctrine and Covenants student manual, religion 324 and 325, and I want to read something from this to you. This is referring to verse 5, and it asks the question, Who are the remnants who are left of the land? It says, The word remnant is often used in the Scriptures to refer to a segment of the house of Israel. Because the Savior made specific promises about the remnants of the Nephites and Lamanites, many have assumed that this verse refers to the Lamanite peoples who would at some point arise and quote, Vex the Gentiles, Doctrine and Covenants section 87 verse 5.

But then it cites Joseph Fielding Smith, who also made this interesting comment. Still on page 195, In other places the word remnant is used generally of all Israel. In some places it refers to the Jews, and in some cases it refers specifically to the Latter-day Saints. So it is possible that the remnants mentioned in Doctrine and Covenants 87.5 could include people of the house of Israel other than the Lamanites. Now, if we're to take that understanding that has just been given to us by the 10th president of the church, Joseph Fielding Smith, that would mean that there's a possibility of Israelites or Israelis vexing the Gentiles?

That doesn't seem very likely. Well, the other option would be Mormons are going to vex the Gentiles, because remember in Mormonism they feel that they are Israel, and everyone outside of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints comes under the category of Gentile. So let's go back and look at verse 5, and it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land—sounds like there's not going to be very many people here, doesn't it?—will marshal themselves and shall become exceedingly angry and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation. Well, if it's not speaking of the Native Americans, the only other option that seems even remotely possible would be Mormons vexing the Gentiles.

So I'm kind of confused as to why Joseph Fielding Smith would want to say something like that when it looks like the Gentile people have something to fear of their Mormon neighbors. Now that's not something that you hear every day, but then we come to verse 6 in section 87. And thus with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn, and with famine and plague and earthquake and the thunder of heaven and the fierce and vivid lightning also shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath and indignation and chastening hand of an almighty God until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations. Didn't Jesus say something very similar to that?

See, again, what we find here, in our opinion, looking from the outside naturally, Joseph Smith is merely plagiarizing things that Jesus said, and the Mormon Church is in this case going to credit Joseph Smith. Matthew 24, 6 through 8 says this, Jesus says, You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

All these are the beginning of birth pains. But in verse 6, it says that the inhabitants of the earth will be made to feel the wrath and indignation and chastening hand of an almighty God until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations. So are we to assume this full end of all nations can be traced back to the rebellion in South Carolina?

That's kind of the impression that I'm getting here from some of the things that Matthew Holland has said, as well as some other leaders. But then it says that the cry of the saints and of the blood of the saints shall cease to come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabbath from the earth to be avenged of their enemies. Now, that's an interesting statement because Heber C. Kimball made a very curious statement in a talk that he gave on April 14, 1861. Now, I find the date to be of specific interest because Fort Sumter was fired upon on April 12, 1861. There was an attack that lasted about 36 hours. So you could say it ended on April 14, 1861, which just so happens to be the date that Heber C. Kimball gives this talk in the tabernacle in Salt Lake City. Now, could he have known about the firing of Fort Sumter that quickly?

I don't know, but this sounds very peculiar to me. At the end of his message, he says, In this country the North and the South will exert themselves against each other, and ere long the whole face of the United States will be in commotion, fighting one against another, and they will destroy their nationality. They will destroy their nationality. Does that not sound very familiar to what we read at the end of verse 6?

Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations. Kimball is saying that that's going to be the result of the North and the South fighting against each other. They will destroy their nationality.

Then listen to what he says. They have never done anything for this people. This people, of course, in this context, is talking about the LDS people, and I don't believe they ever will. Kimball, I have never prayed for the destruction of this government, but I know that disillusion, sorrow, weeping, and distress are in store for the inhabitants of the United States because of their conduct towards the people of God. Does it not sound like Heber C. Kimball is saying that the conflict between the North and the South is the result of how the government, they felt, treated the LDS people?

And Joseph Smith certainly did feel that he was slighted by the American government. But this is what Heber C. Kimball says earlier in this talk. He says, at the bottom of page 54 of the Journal of Discourses, volume 9, this is where I'm reading this, he says, Now think of these things, reflect upon them, and so sure as you have seen a few things, so surely will you in the Lord's own due time see many more, and you will see that our Father will deliver His people every time their enemies come upon them. Yes, it will be so from this time forth and forever. Then in addition to this, you will find that this priesthood, through those who hold it in righteousness, will rule the nations of the earth forever and ever.

Still on page 54, volume 9, Journal of Discourses. Will those who hold the priesthood govern with a rod of tyranny? No, but it will be done by the power of the priesthood of the Almighty, which is compared to an iron rod. The nations will eventually have to come and bow down before this priesthood and to this people, and they will be willing to lick the very dust off their feet.

Yes, and they will be perfectly willing to lick the dust from the feet of those men whom they slew in Carthage. Of course, that's a reference to Joseph and Hyrum Smith, if they can be permitted to be in their presence. It sounds like there was a certain understanding, at least by Heber C. Kimball, that Section 87, in this prediction of future war between the North and the South, was going to happen because of the atrocities that the Latter-day Saints felt that the U.S. government had put upon them. Certainly, the tensions and all the circumstances leading up to the American Civil War were much more complex than having anything to do with the Latter-day Saints. But I find it very fascinating that Heber C. Kimball would make comments like this.

Bill, we have one minute left. To summarize, what should we think about with D&C 87 when it comes to Joseph Smith and his ability to be a prophet? As we've been saying all this week, we don't find that a lot of the things that Joseph Smith claims in this short revelation is all that profound, especially when it comes to a coming civil war between the North and the South. When you have a newspaper in the area where Joseph Smith lived talking about this very thing, you can't really credit Joseph Smith with some kind of revelatory experience. This is why I have a problem with what Matthew Holland is saying when he tries to make the comparison. Was Joseph Smith merely being observant or was he or was he being prophetic?

Even the details that he gives, you have to really do some stretching in order to make those details work. And as we talked about this week, the fact that England would be called into the conflict and they would have to ask other nations to come and defend them, you don't get that from the era of the Civil War. This is why Matthew Holland and other Mormons have to say, well, this also includes World War I and World War II.

Why did they do that? Because without those elements, that no longer makes any sense. I wouldn't agree with Matthew Holland that this is really, as he says, Section 87 proved remarkably prescient or how Joseph Smith knew beforehand, such prophecy should help build our faith in Christ and his chosen servants. This also seems to neglect the fact that Joseph Smith made many other predictions that did not come to pass the way he said. So we should also take those into consideration with Section 87. Thank you.