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March 22, 2021 8:38 pm
One teachings of the church of Jesus Christ from a viewpoint sponsored by Borman's research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism so glad to be with us for this additional viewpoint on Mormonism.
I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry in with me today is Eric Johnson my colleague RM. We also have witnessed Jay Warner Wallace. If you've ever heard of the book cold case Christianity then you're going to enjoy this show today because Jim is the author of that book.
And yes, quite a few positive things that have been said about what he's done for the field of apologetics. Dr. Richard land is the president of Southern evangelical seminaries that I have seldom seen an approach to verifying the truth claims of the Christian faith that is more effective than the one taken by quote God's police detective, which of course is our guest today, Jim. Welcome back to the show. I always enjoy having you on were so glad to have you and we want to talk about your booklet alive. The Easter season is upon us were to be celebrating the resurrection of Jesus Christ and as we mentioned in yesterday's show.
Sadly, many Latter Day Saints who find out that their church is not telling them the truth have found out that Joseph Smith was not in fact a prophet of God tend to throw everything out everything having to do with faith even though they claimed as a Latter Day Saints that they believed in the bodily resurrection of Jesus. So were going to talk about some of the things that you have in this booklet a very easy book to read. You can read it within 1/2 hour.
I know that to be true because I did it this morning and so we want to look at a subject that was brought up in yesterday showing that is the topic of ab inductive reasoning why don't you explain for our listeners what that is and why you included that in your booklet, sometimes called inference from evidence inferring to the most reasonable explanation for doing it or making a list any data seen me walking to get cockatoo officers are there at the scene. The occult is a dead body, and they're not quite sure to make the crime or not. So they call the detectives and we come out we got a Terminator crime here or to disperse and die naturally or accidentally or by way of suicide. So over doing is making a mental list and I had a list of all the evidence in a list of all the explanations were comparing evidences to explanations in crossing out the explanations that don't make sense given the evidence that process of elimination eventually leave you with the best inference from evidence. Now why is it important for us in examining really any worldview or the claims of the world you first of all, Christianity and Mormonism standing on Christianity. If you're somebody who is raised, LDS, or was raised on the SN you accepted that that resurrection occurred. Why did you accept that if you expected just on trust you trusted some other authority, your parents, somebody else in your church law that I'm not surprised if you didn't come in by reading your way and you can leave without reading your way out because you haven't used the mechanisms in place when every speaker, every evangelist in the book of acts every Christian who described the gospel. They began with the fact that they said I witnessed the resurrection of Jesus, you killed him and he rose from the grave. All the prophecies I start with my own eyes. What are they doing their testifying as direct evidence, so I think this is an important skill set to learn so that we can figure out the resurrection did usually arise from a great look at all other alternate as an atheist I only accept it if you meager details. I would agree with you that Jesus went on I Jesus met or even an atheist 35 I was in a Jesus met there. I noticed okay so what ancient stage with named Jesus a lot of ancient sages lived somewhat doesn't mean that the Christianity is true that he rose from the great. I would've also said okay he was executing on a cross and buried okay so the tomb is empty.
I would give you that because look at the tomb is not empty does not event the debate here.
The tumor sentimentally have this controversy. Okay, so I can explain the number life as an atheist effect. The first three things I just said could be true and Christianity could simultaneously be false because I can explain how we got on the cross and how the tomb is even okay. A bunch of people to the sun rise from the grave so people why they are there misled they are there delusional. There's lots of ways to explain all of the minimal facts I just gave you, and it still hold to your atheism. I did that for number years so the question then becomes well. He examined all the explanations to see if your explanations are reasonable so I eventually made a list of like six atheist explanations for the most basic facts about Jesus. I would've given you anything more on that yet he existed. He got across his buried people said they saw him alive in there pretty enthusiastic about it and they were when the guy actually go to their desk. That's all I would've given you empty tomb of what you have that that I don't give you any other fact from those 45 fax how I explain them so I felt a lot lying about it maybe was really dead on the cross. Maybe they were delusional hallucinated is maybe one of them was delusional and hallucinated it was powerful enough to influence the rest of the setting is an imposter in the story was just changed over time. In the earliest versions of the Jesus story didn't even include resurrection to give you six different ways to explain those four pieces of evidence yet still hold on to my atheistic perspective course. The seventh way is simply that another extra recording something is true so as to say we have seven explanations now so I been list. The evidence I would accept here the seven explanations you can use to explain those for five pieces of evidence and I started to go through and cross out the ones that really if you dig deep don't adequately explain the evidence and what you're left with on to tell you that your believer is left of the fate and housing atheist.
There is good reason to believe that the New Testament authors were actually telling the truth about this is not really as good reason as you might thought to walk away from Christianity altogether.
Some people are going to say there's a difference between police work that you've been involved with for many years versus personal faith in their me some critics. Perhaps some Mormons and maybe even some Christians who will say what you're talking about here. Sounds very much like rationalism and in Mormonism. It's more of view of fideism, which is that faith is more important than reason. How you can respond to critics who say you're putting into much reason to try to determine a spiritual issue. Young thinking approach by Jesus of Nazareth approaches. Other than that you're taking approach.
It really is not grounding the teacher to master. The master said always, if you don't believe what I'm saying the gospel John chapter 10 chapter 14 and go on and on and he says if you don't believe what I'm telling you at least believe on the evidence of the miracles I've worked in front of you.
Two kinds of evidence.
Direct evidence was testimony of eyewitnesses and indirect evidence which is everything out of include the miracles. So he's pointing to the indirect evidence of the miracles to authenticate his message Ameritech when John the Baptist has doubts and sent his disciples to Jesus. Jesus could expose himself as either an evidential list or as a highest and somebody would sayalong the stiff, just blind unsubstantiated faith is required here is disciples John's disciples come they say Jesus Johnson says he wants to know are you still the one now listen to Jesus's response because I always get frantic statement analysis. What are the things the suspect could have said, but chose not to say those are big Jesus could have said what John my my cousin who left in the womb when our mothers met who baptized me and saw the Spirit of God to send on me who gave me his disciples basically said there he is the Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world the most was disciples came with me. Yet he is now asking me this question. Are you kidding me. You tell him to be praying about this.
Have a little more faith that we could've said that's not what he said instead he said okay he worked three miracles in front of John's disciples and he told John's disciples go back and tell John what you just saw the blind have site been healed. Blamer walking in other words, he did something evidential and then told the disciples of John tell John what you just saw is direct evidence of direct witnesses report the indirect evidence of these miracles to John Barry evidential approach to take. If you're somebody who's requiring nothing of us but blind you tell a story of a guy named Davies a fellow police officer you said that he would stay up until his children got home from being out at night and he was not the warmest of guys, but he would give his kids a big hug. Why did he do that he would stay up at night and tell her some of them will wait and he will walk up to give a guidance on what your homes that won the bet because you want to get close enough to the sky to smell if he had been smoking dope or drinking alcohol.
Okay, so it's like he's very evidential. He's got theories whatever story is stunning and I have a good have to match the story with explanation with whatever evidence Dave would gather again. We do this all the time we collect evidence and we listen to explanations and we try to match the best explanation to the evidence and that's all were trying to do with the resurrection of all the ways you could explain the resurrection which way best fits the evidence of guy who really lived died on the cross, buried under grave tomb was empty afterwards. People reported having seen him rise from the grave and that they were very committed to their their statements. That's all I would've given you as an atheist.
The question is how to why explain those minimal truth claims you talk about how the disciples might've been wrong about Jesus's death and for many years. A swoon theory was a prevailing idea about what happened that he actually revived when he got into the tomb, but as a detective. Why do you deny the possibility that Jesus wasn't dead when he was put into the grave was a bunch of reasons to not leave a simple and in the text itself is a confusing inclusion in the text, John mentioned in the text of the one Jesus was approached by the guards whether temperament take on the bodies they get there into the three are not yet dead to the 320 who were executed with Jesus so they he breaks their life. The guards break their legs so they are now dead Bilbray Jesus is like. Which makes me feel suspicious as Navy is looking to be not that my luck that is not but they stabbed him with the speaker and it says in the gospel. John records that John saw a separation of blood in the water come out of his chest. That's interesting because if you read every church, and I did that to look back and read all the earliest readers of the gospel of John Reed, the church fathers on this trip to deliver may be large and you read these early church fathers, and they get to that line and there like I don't understand that line will say a commitment water didn't understand the science of death and were still many hundreds of years away from understanding that science what they didn't understand something that's called pleural effusion is when after you are going to cardiac arrest in your heart fails, you will collect water and run your heart and in your lungs flow effusion is in your lungs. Pericardial effusion around your heart and so I was to stab your chest cavity and I did puncture your long you keep the visible separation of water and blood, but that means you've already suffered cardiac arrest.
No reason what. That's interesting is John sticks that detail in their when clearly the people in his generation had no idea what that indicated is why there is confusion about the all the church fathers try to spiritualize adult.
They literally water.
It was something else is a symbol symbol, the baptism symbol, the Holy Spirit, but it could not have been water according to the earliest readers because they didn't understand the science so is not interesting piece of using hidden science in the gospel of John demonstrates that Jesus is dead even though John did not understand what he was saying. Talking with Jay Warner Wallace and he is the author of a live coals case approach to the resurrection and tomorrow are going to continue looking at some of the criticisms that people have made regarding the bodily resurrection of Jesus, thank you for listening you would like to research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter research join us again as we look at another viewpoint looking for is from a Christian perspective for you have questions about the history or doctrines of the LDS church, Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson are once again volunteering at the Utah lighthouse bookstore and will be glad to speak to you on Saturdays from 1 to 5 PM Utah lighthouse bookstore is located right there at 1358 SW. Temple St. in Salt Lake City. Be sure to come by any Saturday from 1 to 5 PM and say hi to Bill for Eric