Share This Episode
Viewpoint on Mormonism Bill McKeever  Logo

Baptism for the Dead Misunderstandings Part 5

Viewpoint on Mormonism / Bill McKeever
The Truth Network Radio
July 30, 2020 6:11 pm

Baptism for the Dead Misunderstandings Part 5

Viewpoint on Mormonism / Bill McKeever

On-Demand Podcasts NEW!

This broadcaster has 662 podcast archives available on-demand.

Broadcaster's Links

Keep up-to-date with this broadcaster on social media and their website.


Point is to examine the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism hoping you're having a very pleasant Friday. Welcome to this edition viewpoint on Mormonism on your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at our M doctrines of salvation, sermons and writings of Joseph Fielding Smith the 10th president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a three volume set that was compiled by Bruce R. McConkie, the son-in-law of Joseph Fielding Smith at the time these volumes were put together.

Bruce McCarthy was a 70 in the LDS church.

He would not become an apostle until 1972, but in this book we are looking at what Joseph Fielding Smith had to say regarding the doctrine of salvation for the dead vicarious salvation as its stated it on page 183 and were continuing our look at chapter 10 Maurice talking about salvation for the living which may sound a little bit confusing but the whole reason why he writes this chapter, I believe, is because of page 184 on 184.

He says false notions about salvation for the dead, and that salvation for the dead is grossly misunderstood by even many Latter Day Saints so we are looking at what Joseph Fielding Smith had to say regarding this unique doctrine of Mormonism. As I said, we are looking today at page 183 where Joseph Fielding Smith states it is the duty of man in this life to repent every man who hears the gospel message is under obligation to receive it. If he fails then in the spirit world. He will be called upon to receive it, but he will be denied the fullness that will come to those who in their faithfulness have been just and true, whether it be in this life or in the spirit world and again I think we need to explain what Joseph Fielding Smith means by this.

This is under the subcategories, some not eligible for vicarious salvation. It's not that a latter-day St. cannot go to a Mormon Temple and be baptized for whoever they want, they can't do that knowing that as far as I know is going to stop them, though they been told that there are certain people that they should not be baptized for such as in the case of Holocaust victims. Now if you're related to one of those Holocaust victims.

There's no problem there, but you should not go in just be baptized for any Holocaust victim that you might read about such as let Satan and Frank. There have been people who have been baptized on behalf of Anne Frank.

This got them a lot of trouble. Several years ago and so the Mormon church has laid down some of these guidelines when it comes to who a person can be baptized for though people can still do it. There's really no policing of this that I would think would even be effective but if there left up to their own whether or not they want to do that. But when he says it is the duty of men in this life to repent. That's nothing new. Mormon leaders have been saying that all along, but notice what he says every man who hears the gospel message is under obligation to receive it. And that's the point once you have heard the message of Mormonism. Let's say you've had Mormon missionaries in your home or your neighbor who happens to be LDS tells you about what they believe regarding Joseph Smith. The restored gospel things like that. Now you are under obligation to receive it.

You cannot reject that message without some sort of eternal consequence to be borne out in that rejection.

He says if he fails then in the spirit world.

He will be called upon to receive it. In other words, when you die if you were not a member of the LDS church. Someone will probably be baptized on your behalf in a Mormon Temple that will then give you the opportunity to hear once again the Mormon gospel in the spirit world in spirit prison.

You will then have an opportunity to receive it. There, but he goes on to say a person who may receive it in the spirit world is still going to be denied the fullness that will come to those who in their faithfulness have been just in true so you can't imagine that you can hear it rejected and then get the same benefit after receiving it in the spirit world as those who have received it here in mortality and lived up to that very high standard of Mormonism.

The first of all, nobody is living up to that high standard of Mormonism, but still do not think that in the grand scheme of things according Mormonism after rejecting it here in mortality and then embracing it in the spirit world that you will receive the same reward as someone who accepted it and lived it here during this life. I wonder how many Latter Day Saints think that as long as they've done their best in their trying hard that they're going to be able to get to the celestial kingdom.

Because of good intentions. How many Latter Day Saints are thinking that they can just do this work for their family members who don't receive the gospel in this life, and yesterday we told the story of Bruce McConkie and his seven deadly heresy stock, where he described a man who had a cigarette dangling from his lips alcohol stench to his breath and profane, and body stories defiled his lips and he told his wife you're going to do the work for me anyway so I'll just go ahead and take that work can have my free pass. This is the idea that I think a lot of Latter Day Saints think they can do for the relatives but that is not what is allowed if you've heard the gospel according to LDS leaders such as what were reading here from Joseph Fielding Smith that you're going to be denied the fullness that is the celestial kingdom that is godhood that is being with your families forever. That's what were trying to emphasize this week don't think that this is a get out of jail card that is going to give you celestial kingdom for nothing you have to do it in this life if you've heard of the gospel and that's why Joseph Fielding Smith can say on one page that there's no second chance for salvation as he does in the subheading of chapter 10, which is on page 181 but yet on 183. He actually uses the phrase second chance, but you must listen carefully to what he saying he says on page 183 second chance leads to terrestrial kingdom that we've hinted to that in this series but now were going to talk about that. What is he say under that subheading are. Moreover, we learned that those who rejected the gospel when it was offered them.

In ancient times, but afterwards accepted the testimony of Jesus in the spirit world. When it was declared to them and who were honorable men of the earth are assigned to the trust your glory, not the celestial. Then again we are informed that the wicked of the earth who do not repent in this life and who do not receive the gospel shall be assigned to the celestial kingdom in that kingdom, they will become servants of the most high, but where God in Christ. Well, they cannot come, world without end eternal slavery.

That's what it sounds like the way it's described here in this paragraph, but let's go back and explain what Joseph Fielding Smith is trying to get across to his readers. If you rejected the gospel when it was offered to you during this mortality, but you embrace it in the spirit world, you will end up going to the terrestrial glory as he describes it, that would be the second level of Mormon heaven. It is not the celestial kingdom in the terrestrial you do not have the opportunity to be with your family.

You do not have the opportunity to become a god, you will not receive your own world in order to populate throughout eternity and your offspring will not worship you as God just as Latter Day Saints and now worshiping heavenly father or Elohim as God. That will be your assignment if you rejected it here in this life, but embraced it in the spirit world. After someone has been vicariously baptized on your behalf. Now the person who rejects Mormonism in the spirit world. Let's say someone is baptized vicariously for an individual and in the spirit world. They are visited by cold" spirit missionaries after someone has been baptized on their behalf. They hear the same message as at other individual heard, but they reject it they don't go to the terrestrial kingdom they go to the lower level known as the T celestial kingdom.

This is where according to Joseph Fielding Smith. They will become. And he has this in quotation marks, servants of the most high, but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, world without end. So Latter Day Saints knows exactly what this means if they were to be fortunate enough to be good enough to go to the celestial kingdom. They will never see those relatives ever again, but it works the same way with God. God really will never want to see them again either. He doesn't want to see them again as well. The last paragraph bill the brand deal with in the series is on page 184, at the very top pieces. All of these, however, will be called upon to repent. They will have to sever the torments of the damned.

Until they do. And through that suffering they will be brought to repentance and to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Redeemer and the son of God every knee must bow and every tongue confess no matter which kingdom the inhabitants of the earth. Enter now build. This is obviously talking about Philippians chapter 2. Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, and so if you're the celestial kingdom you're going to have to acknowledge Jesus as being Lord, but the idea Adolf Hitler had his work done for him in the London Temple back in the 1980s have the same opportunity that every evil person is going to have. They won't go to outer darkness.

They will go the celestial kingdom. And I've been told. I've read many times before that it's not the worst place to go.

It's kind like this world.

If you like smoky bars and you like the ways of this world. It's kind of going to be that way, you raise a good point when it comes to the vicarious baptism of Adolf Hitler because you're right. He was baptized vicariously by someone in London and yet I've had Latter Day Saints asked me what do you think that someone like Adolf Hitler if they were to embrace Christ right before they died they could go to heaven with him.

It doesn't.

Mormonism can offer the same kind of opportunity might say maybe you get a little bit differently but still be the ultimate and would be the same if Adolf Hitler never heard about Mormonism never heard about Joseph Smith never heard about the restored gospel as Joseph Smith himself said if he was to embrace it in the spirit world he would get his ticket into the celestial kingdom now Mormon might say yeah but he would've had to embrace it. Had he heard it. Will you don't know whether he would've rejected it or not. Nobody knows that you can only surmise, but it would seem like the opportunity would've been there just as much for Adolf Hitler as anyone else. So why would a Mormon seem to be so offended that the gospel of grace can forgive sins so heinous as the sins of an Adolf Hitler but yet according Mormonism and Adolf Hitler could receive the reward of celestial exultation. I would say that's a little bit hypocritical for Mormons who find the doctrine of grace so repulsive not granted, Hitler was a bad guy. There were a lot of bad guys but if God chooses to see them.

Who are you to say no.

Who are you to say that really you should be saved as opposed to anybody else that I think anybody who thinks that does not understand the seriousness of sin, and I think that's a huge problem.

Even within the Christian churches. We do not see the seriousness of our sin and because we don't. I think sometimes we miss the glory of his grace.

Thank you for listening.

If you would like more information we guarding him in his research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you will join us again as we look at another viewpoint is


Get The Truth Mobile App and Listen to your Favorite Station Anytime