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Revelation: The Cosmic Battle Ends and We Win!

Understanding The Times / Jan Markell
The Truth Network Radio
December 26, 2020 7:00 am

Revelation: The Cosmic Battle Ends and We Win!

Understanding The Times / Jan Markell

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December 26, 2020 7:00 am

Jans first guest isNathan Jones.They discuss the mighty angels of Revelation. There is intense angelical and demonic activity in Revelation and the Church Age. ThenTodd Hampsoncontinues the discussion on this important book of the Bible. It matters to God that we know how it all ends. Both author books are inour online store.


Reading one book in the Bible reveals we get a blessing for reading and heating it.

We'll talk about that for the hour. Is it otherworldly or a synapse in the brain? Trapped in a car or caught up in a terror attack, it's those moments while fighting for survival that some people report an overwhelming sense of calm piercing through the panic. It's repeatedly described as spiritual, even divine.

Could it be the work of guardian angels? Welcome to Understanding the Times Radio with Jen Markell, brought to you by Olive Tree Ministries. We deal with apologetics this hour and focus on the last, but not the least, book in the Bible, the book of Revelation. Revelation 1-3 states, Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it. Jen talks with two authors this hour, Nathan Jones and Todd Hampson.

Here is Jen Markell. Well, there are 108 references to angels in the Old Testament, and 176 references in the New Testament. 72 of those are just in the book of Revelation alone. I mean there are angels throughout the Old Testament. Talk about Jacob wrestling with an angel. There was an angel guarding the Garden of Eden so that Adam and Eve couldn't get back in. Angels showed up to destroy armies.

So, we get in the New Testament they announced Jesus Christ's birth. They were there at the tomb when He was resurrected. They were there when He ascended to Heaven. All sorts of angels throughout the Bible. But I was like, we've got the Church today, do we really still need angels?

And that's what Vic challenged me on. Do angels work for the Lord in this day and age? And as I studied more and more I realized, yes, He does. And welcome to the program. Well, that was a couple of little teases that you've heard to introduce the program. And we won't talk just only about angels because actually the setting of a new book that we're carrying is the entire book of Revelation and how angels play into that scenario.

And the book is a new book by Nathan Jones from Lamb Lion Ministry. And we'll talk more about it as we move into the programming. Nathan, welcome back to Understanding the Times Radio. Thank you, Jan.

So good to be back. How did this book come about? Now, I mean, I've heard you on a few interviews. You relay a fascinating story. Well, years ago, my parents got in this terrible car wreck. And matter of fact, it's funny because they were in a large Cadillac, so you'd think they'd be protected. But they hit it just the right angle enough that the impact from the Ford car pushed the engine into the passenger compartment and crushed my mother. Now, my father, although he got broken bones and all, he still was able to crawl out of the car and he collapsed on the tarmac.

He couldn't go any farther. But he did hear the sound of a Harley-Davidson motorcycle roll up next to him. He loves Harley-Davidson. Even in that day's condition, he knew what it was. And he was lifted off the ground. He was put in the grass.

He heard the door that was shut on my mother's side that he couldn't get open ripped off. And then he looked up and saw that there was this motorcycle biker waving traffic through and he checked on the other car and all that. And he passed out. Well, by the time he was awake again, he was being pushed into the ambulance on a gurney. And he looked at the paramedic and asked him, he said, Well, could you thank the motorcyclist for protecting us and saving us from getting run over? And the paramedic kind of looked confused. And he said, sir, I don't know of any paramedic, the police officer outside the ambulance, same thing.

So there was no biker here, sir. My father was convinced then that since he's the only one of all the people who were there that remember the biker being there, that likely was an angel from the Lord who came and protected. Now, when I got the phone call from my father later that evening from the hospital, I didn't believe it. And I was more shocked that I was skeptical about that because, you know, I've been to Bible school in college and I work here as an evangelist serving at Lamb & Lion Ministries.

So I was surprised at my skepticism. And I said, Well, you know, I need to find out if angels are active this day and age, certainly in the Old Testament and the New Testament, but is the Lord using them now or are they all out on a lunch break? And a pastor friend of mine who we do a podcast together, The Truth Will Set You Free, challenged me and said, Nathan, if you want to learn about angels, go to the Book of Revelation. There are 72 angels or groups of angels referenced in the Book of Revelation. There's more angels in Revelation than the rest of the Bible. So he and I, we talked through it, eventually blogged through it. And our founder and director here at Lamb & Lion Ministries, David Reagan, said, Well, why don't you guys put it in a book?

And that's exactly what I did. And now we have the book, The Mighty Angels of Revelation. This ministry is carrying it, it's in our store, We'll say more about that as we move into the programming. Okay, so there are 72 classes of angels found in Revelation alone. Just jumping back here quickly, there are 108 references to angels in the Old Testament, 176 in the New Testament. Angel means messenger, God's messenger. But 72 classes of angels found in Revelation. Talk to me a little bit about these classes that are found in Revelation. Like I said earlier, Hebrew, the word for angel is malek.

It's Greek, it's angelos. And that's where we get our term angel. And that's what angels were. Their primary job was to be God's messengers.

They would send God's messages out. But we can find throughout the Bible, where angels act as guardians, as rescuers, as warriors, they're worshipers. They even act as evangelists. There are certainly enforcers, there are servants for God and his people, and some of them even act as executioners. So as we go through the book of Revelation, we find there's individual references to particular angels, but then there's groups of angels. For instance, when we get to the angels of the seven churches, the guardians over the seven churches, there is one angel assigned to each of the seven churches as guardians over them.

So that would be considered a group. You've got the seraphim, which are the holy ones who stand before God. They're called the living creatures, and they're very interesting because they have six wings, and they're covered in eyes, and one has the face of a lion, one an ox, one an eagle, and one a man. And they sing holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty all day and night. You've got the wind angels, who God actually uses to control the winds that travel and go around the atmosphere. Then you've got individual angels, like, for instance, the sun angel, which comes out and proclaims judgment at Armageddon. You've got another groups called the choir angels. And of course, you've got demons, which are different groups as well. And they're actually divided into two groups, those who wander the earth, and those who are kept confined in the pit to be released during the trumpet judgment. There's individual angels referenced in Revelation, but there's also groups or classes of angels referenced. Well, in Revelation 2 and 3, we read of the angel of the seven churches. Is there a clue as to what his assignment might have been?

Well, it's interesting. Each of the churches, when Jesus tells John to write down all he sees, and John is to send these letters out to actual seven churches at that time period. So we're not just talking about churches today, we're talking about churches, Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea. And they were located in what's called Asia Minor.

Today it'd be western Turkey. Of course, this was before the New Testament was written. John would then, from being out on the island of Patmos, where he was been exiled by Domitian, he would write all that he'd seen heard throughout the book of Revelation, which Revelation means an unveiling, to unveil, and here God unveils all that's going to happen in the end times, and how we get to see the angelic realm operate. And those would go through those different churches. The Lord, as the angel of the Lord said, sent them to my stars, in other words, my angels, who are guardians over each of these churches. Some interpret these stars to be pastors, but the context would seem to me that they are angels, guardian angels, protecting each one of these churches.

I want to just go over some fast facts that you bring out. Again, folks, we're actually carrying Nathan Jones' book, and it's titled The Mighty Angels of Revelation. It's a fairly thick book. Encounter 72 of God's mighty angels from the book of Revelation. You actually got some artwork in there. If we have time, we'll reference that as well.

But just some fast facts that you bring out, Nathan. Some have physical bodies. They don't all look the same. I find that interesting. Some take on human form. Some are extremely powerful. And in the New Testament, we become above the angels. Why don't you talk to us about that? Because that's in the Bible.

Absolutely. Well, in the Old Testament, they were called the sons of God. They were the rulers over the planet. When Adam and Eve sinned, the ownership of the planet went to Satan. And when him and his demons were cast out of heaven to earth, Satan became the ruler of this earth. They were worshiped throughout history and in some places still as gods.

Many of our mythologies that we have today are based on the gods and goddesses. Those are demons. At the time, they were called the sons of God.

But it's interesting. You go to the New Testament, they're no longer called the sons of God. They're actually said to be the servants of those who inherit salvation, and that is those who've accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. We then become over the angels. We become higher in rank over the angels.

Now, certainly, they're far, far more powerful. When you get to the bold judgment angels, those angels wield enough power to destroy a planet. But humans were created in God's image. And so we are inheritors of the kingdom, according to Jesus Christ, to rule and reign with him. And the angels are fellow servants with us. Matter of fact, the apostle John twice was so overwhelmed that he fell down on his knees and started worshiping with the revealing angel that guided him throughout the book of Revelation. The angel was like, no, no, no, no, don't do that. We are fellow servants. You worship God. And so that puts it in great perspective.

I'm not quite finished with fast facts that you bring out, but I just want to talk for a minute here. These 72 types of angels in the book of Revelation, because you just referred to, obviously, the bold judgment, the sealed judgments. In other words, the angels are extremely busy during the book of Revelation, and some of the assignments they have to carry out are not the prettiest. No, not at all.

Not at all. Well, you've got up in the heavenly realm, for instance, we were talking about Revelation four through five, two chapters that describe what the throne room of God looks like. God bless John, he probably tried his best, but there's no way to capture the grandeur that is the throne room of God. And before the throne of God is the 24 elders who I believe are representative of the church in the future, that we ourselves might rotate through and sit on those thrones. Now, these aren't angels, these are people, but we will sit, as I said a little earlier, that we will rule and reign with Jesus Christ, and there are thrones around God's throne that represent that. But here we get into the seraphim, which I mentioned a little earlier, these great worship leaders who sit before the throne of God. There's also the cherubim, and oh, the poor cherubim, Jan, they've been so maligned over the years.

They're not cute, cuddly little babies with bows and arrows and little hearts and things. No, they're actually massive creatures with four wings and four faces, and they lift up the throne of God and they move it to where God wants it to go. So they're like the wheelman of the throne of God, which you find out is a chariot.

The throne of God doesn't stay in one place, but the universe moves around it. So you learn about the cherubim, there's obviously the servant angels, those are angels that serve the Lord. There's a strong angel that calls out and says, is there anyone worthy to hold up the seven sealed scroll, and only Jesus Christ, the lamb that was slain and is bloodshed for our sins, is worthy to pick it up. We see choir angels singing. I heard recently a well-known pastor said, angels don't sing, and I have to disagree with them. The 16th angel on my list is the choir angels.

They sing. There's also angels that play instruments. The seraphim themselves play harps.

So we know there's lots of music going on in heaven. They're ordered into different categories and classes. There's a hierarchy, like a military hierarchy, amongst the angels with the archangel Michael at the top, and Gabriel, who's likely an archangel, right, over the messengers and the worshippers. There are many different classes and categories of angels throughout. Jan, I grew up thinking that angels were all uniform, like clone troopers from Star Wars. You know, they all looked alike, they all acted alike, they all did the same job, but boy, when you read Revelation, you learn that there are so many different types of angels, looks of angels, classes of angels.

God has made them just as myriad as the animal kingdom is here on this earth. And one even escorts us up to Heaven. There are 72 angels, or groups of angels, found in the book of Revelation. And there are more angels in that book than throughout the rest of the Bible. So, if you really want to know how God works through His angels, then that is the great book. And He works through them in so many different ways. You've got guardian angels, and worship angels.

Some are instrumental. Some carry the throne of God, the chair of Him. There are warrior angels. There are protector angels. There are nurturing angels who help feed people, and nurture them, and rescue them. There are those angels that when you die, they escort you up to Heaven.

There are so many angels found in the book of Revelation, that's really pretty much the place to go. If you just join me, you're listening to Understanding the Times Radio, Jan Markell, and I'm talking for this segment with Nathan Jones. You just heard a clip from the Christ and Prophecy television program that he co-hosts with Dr. Dave Reagan. And just a quick announcement, if you're visual, the radio program is now on his channel,

If you like to watch things, you can see a lot more of what we're doing, and some of the video that we're playing and showing will be on the program that airs both on our YouTube channel and So Nathan, let's go back here. I want to hit a few more fast facts, because I want to talk a little bit while we have time, and that would be about the constant warfare that we're in, quite frankly, with fallen angels. I don't think we can ignore them. Paul warns us that we are in a spiritual battle, spiritual warfare, with fallen angels, principalities, and powers.

You talk about that as well. Well, that's the amazing thing, again, about the book of Revelation that's unveiling, is that in the New Testament time period, we saw a lot of angels active in the ministry of Jesus Christ and afterwards in the apostles' ministries. But it seems like the Church has believed that overall, in the last 2,000 years, that God has just kind of sent the angels out on a lunch break, and they're not doing anything.

And that was the misconception I was working under before my father told me about what I call the biker angel, for lack of a better name. Yet the apostle Paul says in Ephesians 6 12, for we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. In other words, we are engaged in a spiritual battle, not just with human agents, but also with Satan, who is the ruler over this world right now, and his demonic forces. Just like God's angels are organized militarily, like so are Satan's principalities and powers, and they are organized from the top, trying to work in the high levels of the government, all the way down to your, you call them buck private demons if you like, who are out there attempting people. And also, yes, very much so, the spiritual warfare that's out there is real and it is demonic.

And when you get to the book of Revelation and the veil is taken off, God will at some point release the demons from this pit. We read about the four generals led by this demon, Abaddon, ones that look like locusts. They ride these crazy looking beasts.

They're like Shamara, a mixture of all sorts of different animals. They lead a 200 million man army, which sounds demonic as well when you read it. They go over the world and some of the plagues that God uses against the people, a few of his 21 judgments that he doles out in the book of Revelation. Yet demonic warfare is very prolific, not in this age, but we'll see it amped up incredibly during the tribulation. Right, the tribulation. And you bring out a fact too.

This is kind of a new concept to me, and Dr. Mark Hitchcock brings it out too. I think both of you believe that the 200 million man army during Armageddon will actually be demons released to torment rather than a literal army. Am I right there?

I believe so. There's some who have long believed that the numbers represent, say, the forces that come out of China, for instance. We do read about the armies from the east marching at the very end at Armageddon after these frog demons.

Now that's really gross. They're foul-looking demons that look like frogs released to gather the remaining people around the world and bring them to Armageddon. But we can read here in Revelation 9 16 that these generals that are just released from this bottomless pit where Satan will one day be cast, says now the number of the army of the horsemen was 200 million. I heard their number.

And the context tends to place these marching dragoons into the punishments of the trumpet judgments. You bring out another point that was interesting too. You state that they can control the weather. And by the way, I wish you would tell that to certain televangelists who keep saying he can control the weather, though he will not fly his private plane in bad weather. But you talk about them controlling the weather.

Oh, absolutely. It's fascinating that today with all this talk about global warming, and all this fear that the earth is just out of control, we got Greta Thunberg saying that the world is going to be destroyed in 12 years, is that we read about these wind angels, these angels who are actually that God sends out to control the winds of this earth. They're actually the 19th of the angels that I have in my book here. You read them in Revelation 7 1, and after these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth that the wind should not blow on the earth, the sea or the tree. So they're actually the stewards of the weather. We read later about water angels, how God uses angels to manage the water too. So you could almost look at the earth as one giant factory with angels all over the place servicing it. That's the great thing again about Revelation.

It unveils that. We can see that God's hand is always in work, so we can trust that global warming and climate change and all that is nonsense. God is in control of the weather. So in Hebrews 1 where it talks about ministering spirits, these would be angels, correct?

Absolutely. We've got ministering and we've got spirits. I think one of the best examples that we read is that we find out that the Jewish people, the midpoint of the seven-year tribulation, will be cast out into the wilderness. They'll flee after the Antichrist desecrates the temple and declares himself to be God.

And the Bible says that they are nourished out in the wilderness. In other words, just like the Israelites were given manna from heaven during their 40 years of wandering the desert, that these Jewish people out in the wilderness, likely in Petra, will be taken care of by what I deemed as, or I called in the book, the nourishing angels who actually minister to and take care of the people. And they're just one of the many examples of angels who have come out and helped people, like for instance this biker angel, so to speak, that helped my father. I think it's important, Nathan, I am talking to Nathan Jones for this segment about his newest book, The Mighty Angels of Revelation, because you remind folks that revelation is the story of victory. It's victory in Jesus Christ. The devil and his angels are defeated. Obviously, the angels play a role in judging the earth. We've talked about that already and they are released to punish the wicked world during the tribulation. We've referenced that. But I think the thing that you want to bring out more than anything else, and I would too, and we're going to spend the whole hour talking about the book of Revelation.

By the way, a neglected book is neglected in, I would say, most church pulpits today. But the most important thing that you're bringing out, I find anyway, we win. Jesus Christ wins.

He gets his kingdom. These are hugely important issues in the Bible that come to a culmination in the book of Revelation, even though pastors today really don't want to go there. What a message they're missing.

Absolutely. The book of Revelation is Jesus Christ's victory lap. It is the culmination of all of human history. Back in Daniel, when God through Nebuchadnezzar gave the vision of the Gentile empires falling at the collapse of this stone that was not cut out by human hands, that became a mountain and filled the earth.

In other words, the kingdom of Jesus Christ, the Messiah. That is what the book of Revelation finally explains. And I know a lot of pastors, God bless them, are concerned that the book of Revelation has got some terrible things in it.

Yes, it does. It's 21 judgments of God. Matter of fact, by the end of the book, there's only enough people left alive to fill the valley of Jehoshaphat.

It's that devastating to the planet. It's how Jesus finally uses these judgments to get people to get down on their knees and to repent. We see millions of people who unfortunately will be martyred by the Antichrist, many of them, who will turn to Jesus Christ because the earth will get so bad. And then Jesus Christ will defeat the Antichrist, Satan. He throws the Antichrist and the false prophet into hell and Satan into a deep pit. And for a thousand years, Jesus takes those who have accepted him and survived the tribulation to live into the millennial kingdom, a kingdom of peace and righteousness and justice where the world is restored to almost a garden-like state. And the curse from sin is slightly lifted until their sin, obviously, but not like it is today.

There's no demons or Satan tempting anybody during that time period. And that's what the book of Revelation is. And Janet, if there's any pastors or people who are scared to book a Revelation, they're missing the blessing of Revelation, because Revelation actually begins with a blessing. It promises you that blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it, for the time is near. Revelation 1-3.

If you read the book of Revelation, you will be blessed because you will have hope knowing that Jesus Christ is coming back to set up his kingdom. And Nathan, you've even got some fantastic illustrations in this book. Well, I'd like to take credit for them, but I couldn't draw a stick figure from me, Janet. I wanted people to see angels as the Bible describes them, not as this classic 1950s Americana view of angels. White guys with curly hair and togas and two wings and a halo, and that's just not what the Bible describes the angels.

So I hired an artist by the name of Shalice Stevens to design 12 different angel illustrations. The book, The Mighty Angel Revelation, the 72 angels are the chapters, but I divide them into 12 sections, and each section begins with one of Shalice's fantastic angel illustrations, like the angel, the Lord, or the seraphim, or even Satan, the red dragon. Then I do a little story to kind of connect people to the story as John goes throughout the book of Revelation and sees what he sees, and he's led by the revealing angel. But then we get into the book where we learn about what Revelation is trying to teach. So I'm hoping that people will be blessed because they'll learn about angels and learn all about the book of Revelation, about the book of Revelation as well.

That is very well stated. It's heartbreaking, and I just had an email minutes ago from a pastor who does teach all of these issues that we're talking about here on this segment of the program, and he actually had a prophecy conference recently, and he asked numbers of pastors from his community to come and learn about this conference that he was putting on with some great teachers, some of the fellows that you and I work with all the time. Obviously a great event that he was putting on. He had about 15 pastors come and hear about it from his local community. He looked at their blank faces, and only one of the 15 actually showed up to the prophecy conference that this pastor hosted. He was heartbroken that the things you and I are talking about, and a whole lot more, so relevant for today because we're in the last of the last days, and yet the silence was deafening. Oh absolutely, the silence is deafening, and yet it matters to Jesus. It matters that we know how it ends, and if it matters to Jesus, it should matter to us as well, hence the blessing that he who reads and hears this word and takes it to heart.

So yes, absolutely. Pastors, you don't need to be scared of the book of Revelation. Take it for its plain sense meaning. Pick up my book if that helps, The Mighty Angels of Revelation. You'll learn about angels. You'll learn about revelation, and Jan, the more I study, I know the more you study it too, you realize it's not a Chinese puzzle.

It is very easy to understand when you look at the symbols as they're told in the Bible, both in the context and in the Old Testament. It's just an amazing book because it puts Jesus Christ at the center, and it gives us hope about his soon return. Well again, folks, you can find it in my store, and that's, views as in viewpoint,, The Mighty Angels of Revelation, and you can call my office and we can get it out to you promptly as well. It is quite a thick book, therefore there's a lot of substance to it. If you want to wrap up any thoughts you have remaining, Nathan, go ahead. Well, you used to call it a thick book so much, so I'll tell people it's 400 pages.

That shouldn't dissuade you. I've actually had one lady tell me that she's read it three times through. It's that easy a read, and even Terry James, which blew my mind, he wrote the foreword to the book. He said, I consider this book to be the premier work on the subject of angels to this point in literary history.

I was like, oh Terry, please don't say that. That's what he believed the book was. Again, I hope this book really blesses you, helps you understand that Jesus Christ wins, helps you understand what's in the book of Revelation, and helps you understand how God uses his mighty angels to do his will on this earth. Don't forget, folks, to check out Christ in Prophecy on your local Christian television network, Sign up for their newsletter and be informed of the various airings as well. Nathan, thank you for all you do. Appreciate it so much. We will talk again. Thank you, Jan. Appreciate what you do as well. Back in just a moment or two, we're going to continue with the topic of the book of Revelation, but my guest's second segment will be author Todd Hampson. Coming up next is author Todd Hampson.

As we continue with our apologetics emphasis this hour, we love friendly feedback. Write to us through our website, That's You can reach us by mail by writing to Olive Tree Ministries in Jan Markell, Post Office, Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311. That's Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311. Call us Central Time at 763-559-4444, at 763-559-4444.

All gifts are tax deductible. You can also text to give, consult our website. More in a moment with Jan Markell. As our incredible year of 2020 winds down, we are sending our radio audience and ministry followers a heartfelt thank you for your support this year.

The new year promises to be even more challenging. It is both a privilege and a challenge to be born for such a time as this. Understanding the Times Radio began on one Twin City station in the year 2000.

God opened doors three years later to begin some expansion. We now broadcast Understanding the Times Radio on almost 900 stations across North America and around the world electronically. Thank you to our listening audience for making this possible. Stay in touch with us through our website,

That's, or call us Central Time at 763-559-4444, that's 763-559-4444. We'll hope to bring you the truth and the inconvenient truth in 2021. Stay tuned, try to look up, and not around. Remember, the King is coming again, perhaps today. You can't always be by a radio, so catch Understanding the Times Radio on our website,, or, and the OnePlace mobile app, on our YouTube channel, and on his Jan Markell talks in this segment of the program with author Todd Hampson about a very unique approach to the book of Revelation.

Here is Jan Markell. Every book of Scripture you want to study carefully. There's no book you don't want to study carefully, and we want to do it with systematic interpretation, careful observation, and the like. But when you get to the book of Revelation, the rigor requirements go up another level, in my estimation. And the book of Revelation is such that it stirs up so much controversy at times, and I think it's because people don't study it necessarily with that rigor in mind. And when you hear about all the different opinions out there about what the book means, what it says, if you're like most, you start to shrink back from a study of it, because your thought is, if so many learned people can't understand it, who am I to get into it and understand it?

And I don't really want to get involved in an argument, and I don't really want to have all the people around me debating what's true and what's not true. So as a result, we may never get into the book at all. Well, let me tell you that those conflicting opinions and all the controversy that surrounds it is simply proof that the enemy does not want you to study this book. And here we are in part two of our program. We're going to continue to look at this very, very captivating book of Revelation.

Again, it's a book that promises a blessing if you'll read it and heed it. Let me quickly say, if you'll sign up for our print and e-newsletter, we talk about these kinds of things, and these newsletters do so at If you're listening to the broadcast, would you always tell us how you listen on one of our radio stations? Are you a podcaster, a YouTuber, his channel, whatever?

Let us know how you listen to the program. We are carrying another book on this particular topic, the book of Revelation, and it's called The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Book of Revelation. It is authored by Todd Hampson, who's not only an author but an illustrator and an animation producer, and he has inserted some of these skills into this intriguing book. And what drew me to it, other than knowing Todd and that he would have his theology on target here as it concerns Revelation, is his use of some fascinating visuals, timelines, charts. The publisher states that the book is entertaining and user-friendly, and I would agree. And I'm just reading two short paragraphs from the book that we carry, The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Book of Revelation. Todd says this on page 21. He says, Is Revelation practical?

This is a relevant question. With all the struggles people go through in life and with all the significant physical needs and global crises present in our world today, why should we take the time to study Revelation with all of its symbolism, mysteries, apocalyptic language, and scary scenarios? And then he says, Because it's the capstone of Scripture, the climax of the story, the resolution of the biblical narrative, ignoring Revelation would be like going to a movie and walking out before the best part.

And then he concludes, In practical terms, understanding Revelation gives us a deeper confidence in Scripture, anchors our focus on a promised future, and eternal hope purifies our Christian life, pushes us to share our faith, and helps us make sense of the way the world is today. So I hope with that kind of brief introduction, we'll at least get your attention for the next few minutes. So, Todd Hampson, welcome back to Understanding the Times Radio. Thank you so much, Jan.

It's an honor to be here. Todd, the non-prophet's guide to the book of Revelation, non-p-r-o-p-h-e-t. First of all, who is the non-prophet? You kind of call him comedy relief in the book.

Why? Mainly because kind of like your lead-in audio there said that it's such a heavy laden topic that a lot of people disagree about. And there's a lot of negative connotations from my generation and below where people, even a lot of believers, most believers I talk to, have never even read the book because they shy away from it because of all those reasons. I kind of use the non-prophet character as comedy relief to kind of break down some of those walls, even poke fun at the fact of why those connotations are there. And he's also used throughout the book as the kind of the tool that helps people learn Bible prophecy.

He always learns it the wrong way and has the misinterpretation. So he's kind of used as the opposite of what we're supposed to do with Revelation when we study it. Well, Revelation means the unveiling, the unveiling, really, of the unseen world. Really, it's the revelation of Jesus Christ. So it's far more than seals, bowls, and judgments.

It really is. I spend quite a bit of time in the book setting that up. The book is set up chronologically, like a chronological survey of the book of Revelation. But the early chapters, I talk a lot about kind of the setup material, the importance of getting that foundational chapter one, getting some of those details out of chapter one, and chapters two and three about the seven churches. A lot of people just breeze past that because they want to get to the action scenes, so to speak, with the destruction and the judgment and all that. But those two chapters about the churches are some of the most practical information for us right now in the church age in the book of Revelation. And you write that the book is actually written for people intimidated by the topic of eschatology, and I think you made a joke with someone.

If you can figure it out, anybody can. Then don't put yourself down too badly, because I frankly enjoyed the book, and I know that you suggested that this book, and folks, we carry it, we'll tell you more about that later, but you suggested this might be for someone who might never have studied Revelation before, and you call it an unexpected adventure. That's the whole book of Revelation.

Are you maybe targeting perhaps younger people, millennials that age? I definitely am, and my personal background plays into this a little bit in that I grew up unchurched, and one of the things that convinced me to become a believer was studying fulfilled Bible prophecy. That showed me that the Bible was from God, and I should pay attention to it. I jokingly say if I can figure it out, anybody can, but in some senses I mean that. I'm kind of like the non-profit myself, like I didn't learn these things, but I kind of figured them out on my own, and it is a lot of study, but it's a fascinating study, and it is a great adventure. If people have never studied it, they're missing out on a huge adventure and a huge shot in the arm for their faith as well. First, they have to understand it, and that's why there are some good books out, and I would put yours right in there with some of the better ones. And again, you accentuate it with some fascinating, you've got some drawings, because you're an animation guy, and you've inserted that into this book.

Obviously, it's not literally animated, but you've got some wonderful drawings, you've got charts, you've got graphs. You make it a whole lot easier to understand than your average encyclopedia type book on Revelation. Todd, I've noticed two books of the Bible are marginalized today, the book of Genesis and the book of Revelation, and these are the so-called the bookends of the Bible, and they both are either marginalized or they're taught wrong, I think. Both are considered controversial.

In many cases, both are approached symbolically and not literally, and I think that churches and leaders feel that these two books are going to be divisive, that we can't know for sure what these books mean. Well, I think we can. And the conclusion is, let's avoid these topics.

What a tragedy in my lifetime. Absolutely, and I would agree 100% that the enemy is brilliant. He's brilliantly evil in that he tries to take away our foundations, and he tries to take away our future. If people are fuzzy on where we came from and how we got here, and he's making them fuzzy on where we're going and how it all culminates in the end, then he's gutted two major pillars of our faith. Honestly, because of that, I think a lot of believers' faith has been weakened because of those things. And you caution readers, we're going back to the seven churches now, and you caution them not to diminish the importance of the seven churches of Revelation.

Why do you highlight those? First of all, they definitely were seven literal churches. Archaeology proves that, and it's stated literally there in the text. But also, the commendations and the rebukes and the particular words and word studies that you can do in there, when you study what Jesus said to the seven churches, we can use those to evaluate churches that we go to. We can also use it just to evaluate our personal lives.

Like, all right, how does my life, how does my faith line up with these blessings or these encouragements and rebukes that Jesus gave? And also for me, what was really fascinating the first time I studied it was that I believe that they line up also with seven distinct church periods throughout church history. And that's kind of a secondary application, but it's a book of prophecy.

And the more I studied church history, the more I saw how accurate that was. And that just blew my mind. I want to play just a short clip here. It happens to be some interviews of some Bible prophecy teachers about the importance of the book of Revelation. And the thing that makes this little clip intriguing is it's got the voice of the late Jack Kinsella, a good friend of mine, passed away three, four years ago. And I believe he might have even been a scriptwriter for Hal Lindsay, but I met Jack in 2008.

He passed away a few years ago. So we're going to hear from Mark Hitchcock, Jack Kinsella, and Dave Reagan in this real short little clip. People should read the book of Revelation for, there's a lot of reasons why people should do that. But I think one of them is a very basic one is in Revelation 1, 3, there's a blessing there, a beatitude. There's seven beatitudes in the book of Revelation. But the first one is blessed are those, the one who reads this book, who hears what's in it and who applies it to their life or who does it. And it's been called, Revelation has the blessing book.

And so it's the only book in the Bible that has this kind of a specific blessing stated there. And so if we want God's blessing, we hear that book, we read it, we understand it, we do what it says. And also too, just the book of Revelation is the book that tells us where this world's going. Franklin Roosevelt years ago in his first inaugural address said about the United States or this world we live in, he says, we don't know where we're going, but we're well on our way. And that's kind of the way people see the world today. We don't know where we're going, but we're well on our way. And the book of Revelation tells us where we're going, where this world's headed.

God, the book of Genesis tells us how everything started, everything began. The book of Revelation gives us the consummation of history. To me, it's just a great comfort for us to know where this world we live in is headed. Because God wrote it, they should read it because it's part of the Bible.

You can't understand, you can't take part of a thought and expect to get the entire import from just half that thought. The book of the Revelation deals with what amounts to the most important period in human history. This is the period where all of God's plans come together, they come to fruition in one place. This is the place where the Lord judges a Christ-rejecting world, and this is the place where the Lord keeps His promise for the national redemption of Israel. And the way that He does it is such a marvelous story, as well as giving us details about the things that we need to know before the Rapture, because I believe the Rapture takes place before we go into the Tribulation period.

As we bring our program to a close, let me quickly summarize the answers to the two questions that we pose to our experts. First, why is it important to read the book of Revelation? The answer is that it assures us that the cosmic battle between God and Satan will be won in behalf of believers when Jesus returns.

Or to put it another way, Jesus is returning, and we win in the end. The second question was, what are the keys to understanding the book of Revelation? Well, one is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Another is a belief that God wants you to understand it. But the most important is to accept it for its plain sense meaning.

Just don't play games with it by spiritualizing its meaning. You're listening to Understanding the Times radio. I'm Jan Markell.

I am on the phone. Todd Hampson, who is author of a new book, We Are Caring. The book title is The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Book of Revelation, Bible Prophecy for Everyone. It's very unique in that it's filled with illustrations, charts, graphs. Todd himself has designed because he is an illustrator. Todd, how did you ever get into this kind of work, and how did you transfer your talent into this kind of a product?

That's a great question. I've always been an artist, went to college for art and graphic design, and then started a company called Timbuktoons. But also all along my whole life since I became a believer, I had this love for Bible prophecy and eschatology. And around 2015, God kind of shifted and clarified my calling to use everything to help get the message of Bible prophecy out there. So I've worked on tons of creative projects for ministries over the years, and I've never felt as called and as clearly compelled to write about and illustrate what I'm doing now. And I'm a visual learner, and I'm finding that a lot of people are.

That's right. The more simple and impactful you can include visuals in your teaching, the easier it is for people to grasp, especially something complex like the book of Revelation. Do you want this book to be given to unbelievers?

I believe you say that in here. The first thought is traditionally, this is a tough book to figure out how on earth can unbelievers sort through the strange images in Revelation. But your goal is that some would get saved through this book, nonetheless, correct? Absolutely. And early on in the book, when I start talking about salvation and what that means, I actually tell them, hey, if you happen to be reading this book, because a lot of people are picking it up and buying it for non-believers because of the cartoons and the visual aspects, I challenge them to pause there, go to the second to last chapter of the book where I present the Gospel and kind of nail that down first. What we're finding is that if the elephant in the room, even non-believers, see that the world is falling apart and they want answers just as badly as we do. Right. Things are really falling into place.

And I talked to your colleague, Jeff Kinley, on air here very recently. We looked at some of the things that are falling apart, but really are falling into place. Some of them are a little terrifying right now. From a virus that's trying to ravage the world to some locusts, a plague in parts of Africa and the Middle East that I think the size of the locusts, they're bigger than major cities. The whole flock of them comes and descends on a particular area of these areas I've just described.

Everything goes dark and a farm is ravaged in 30 seconds from these locusts. So we've got some biblical proportion-like things going on in the world. This is an awesome, ominous time.

It really is. And that's what's interesting is I've noticed progressively and even more so the past year, but even in secular media, you're seeing them use biblical terms like apocalyptic or Bible-like or all these things. So it's definitely got the world's attention. Now, I heard you say that I'm just picking one little sentence out that I want to follow up on because I heard you say after the rapture, the paranormal is the new normal. I'm dealing with the paranormal all the time. What did you mean when you said after the rapture, the paranormal is the new normal?

What I mean by that, definitely for those of us like you and myself who are paying attention to the cultural things and the occult and all that, definitely the paranormal is making its way into mainstream and permeating more and more of our culture. But what I'm highlighting in that chapter is the fact that there's a certain point in the tribulation, especially when the demonic locusts come and the abyss is opened up and all this stuff, that at first it's a lot of physical destruction, but then there comes a point in the tribulation period where the veil between the seen and the unseen realms is really thinned to where the paranormal becomes a new normal. And obviously that starts with the rapture. The rapture itself is the domino that sets everything into motion, including the revealing of the Antichrist who will after that be in a position to confirm this covenant and start the tribulation period. But with the single event of the rapture, all of a sudden the unseen realm and supernatural events start to be the norm.

Yes, that's absolutely correct. It's been stated on this program frequently, and particularly the last few weeks, that if one does not know the Lord, some of these things we're talking about become very ominous. I just referenced a few things going on in society.

And as I said with Jeff Kinley, we looked at some current events that are going on and the fact that earthquakes are I think 400% above normal, that is in intensity anyway, there are six points or above. You know, if you don't know the Lord, this is what's coming. Get ready, get spiritually ready. I think that's a message you're giving, it's a message I'm giving, because all of this that you reference in Revelation other than the first three chapters is, of course, the first three chapters would be the church age, and then the church disappears, and then things get so intense, and particularly for those who are left behind.

And for some reason, this program is focused on that for the last two or three programs. Honestly, not intentionally, but then as I've said now three times, we've got some things going on that are the tribulation casting a shadow on the church age right now. Absolutely. And it is scary, like you said, if you're going to be left behind, and you and I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, which is, in my opinion, just so clearly taught in scripture, that that is our hope. Yes, it's scary if you're here. I've heard people say, well, Revelation is just a scare tactic to get people to come to Jesus. Well, I look at it this way. It's kind of just the Bible just tells facts the way they are. We don't see an electrical box that says danger, keep out and say, Oh, that's just a scare tactic.

No, we realize that is danger in there. And that's what this book is all about. God's saying this judgment is coming.

It's just the way it is. I died for you so that you can avoid this. And the blessed hope is you can be raptured out of here before this happens.

Why not take advantage of that and do it now? It's a very sobering time. I'm not sure that we'll be aware of everything that's going on when we are enjoying heaven, except there will be some time of silence up there.

And you have to wonder if perhaps we are aware of what's going on on earth at the time. The Bible talks more about the great falling away in the end times than almost anything else. I think two things that take predominance as it concerns the last days, the rebirth of Israel, and then the great falling away, the falling away from sound doctrine. And honestly, Todd, talking to Todd Hampson this half hour, one of the aspects of the great falling away that I believe is an aspect that people don't think about quite as much as they should is that the church is going to fall away from teaching the things that we're talking about.

And as I've been working with Brent Miller and his new production, Before the Wrath of Film and all that, the purpose of that film is the fact that 98%, he and LifeWay came up with statistics that 98% of the church, 98% by their own admission in LifeWay questionnaires that were proposed to them, will not teach on the things you and I are talking about today. Is that not a part of the falling away or is it? I think it is. I think it is. You know, when I used to study the falling away, I thought it would be like really clear, overt apostasy, like saying that Jesus wasn't God or something really clear.

But what I'm finding is the enemy is a lot smarter than that and a lot more crafty than that. So he's subtly infusing in the church, just a doubt about Revelation or a hesitancy to teach it. And along with that, like you said earlier, without teaching the Book of Genesis as literal fact that we were created and that these are literal days of creation.

All these things that used to be taught tremendously and so powerful in the church now are shied away from and not spoken of very often at all. The book is A Non-Prophet's Guide to the Book of Revelation. You can find it in my online store, You can call my office. We'll get one out to you real quickly. I'd sign up for my newsletters, print and e-newsletters.

We carry these products in the various newsletters and also we're really active on social media. So why don't you look into being a part of our Facebook conversation, Jan Markell's Olive Tree Ministries, active on Twitter, active on YouTube, active on Instagram, so we can dialogue with you there. Let me ask you this, Todd, and I ask this of Nathan Jones in the earlier part of my program. What is the most important truth you want to bring out in the book that you've just written?

So I throw that question to you as well. In the book, The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Book of Revelation, what would be the most important truth you want my listeners to understand? I think the most important truth with this book is the fact that this book can be understood and it should be studied and understood and it won't scare you, but it will prepare you. It will give you joy and hope. And there are so many, like I said in the introduction of my book, it's an unexpected adventure. There are so many beautiful things waiting for you if you would just take the time to study it and not let anything distract you from learning about that book. And it will help you see our times with a new light.

It's like putting on infrared goggles and being able to see things you never saw before. It's really a pivotal thing for people to read and study the book of Revelation in our day. We hear a lot about end time revival, which I'm just a little skeptical of other than the revival that I think there can be little pockets of revival. I understand that there are, but the great revival, of course, happens in the tribulation. Those who are coming to faith after Revelation 4, we start to read about the 144,000 Jewish evangelists, the two witnesses and angel. These are all proclaiming the gospel. Additionally to that, we've got folks who are, as we speak, who are designing little left behind items for loved ones, putting them in significant places that folks might come across once the church is taken out. We do have a revival coming, perhaps might not be in our lifetime, the real revival that's going to captivate the whole planet, but is really going to take place during the seven years of hell on earth, which is an interesting paradox.

And you talk about it. Yeah, I agree 100%. I mean, right now, there's little pockets of revival, like in Iran and the underground church in China, and beautiful things like that in some of the toughest places. And to me, I see that more as, if we are as close as it seems we are, God's really trying to do everything he can to reach everybody he possibly can. But I agree with you, as far as I read in Scripture, there's no great end times revival. There's actually a great falling away and a great apostasy drifting away from truth and drifting away from revival. But what a beautiful thing to know that yes, in the tribulation period, God's grace is still there, even though the church is gone. But you do have these 144,000 Jewish evangelists and millions, maybe billions will be saved. Maybe billions. Absolutely. It could be billions.

Indeed, it could. You can learn more at Todd's website, And Todd, I was on your site the other day, I think might have been just yesterday.

And I noticed sort of an article there was a caption anyway. And it was titled, Waiting Without Weariness. Can you take a minute to talk to us for those who are waiting and who are weary, how they can wait without weariness?

Yes, that's a great question. And for those of us that are watching the signs and are studying these things and have been for some time, it can wear on you if you let it. The enemy tries to keep us from being the watchmen and watchwomen we're called to be and tries to discourage us. But there are several things we can do where we can wait without weariness, where we can really, matter of fact, I was just sharing with Jeff Kinley last night that my prayers of late have shifted from, Lord, please come soon. We want you to return to, Lord, please help me to leave everything on the field. I think it's time for believers, those of us who are watching, to let ourselves be filled with hope and think about the privilege that we have to be alive at this time in history. We don't want to get to the moment of the rapture as amazing as that's going to be. We don't want to get there and think, oh, I could have done even more to sound the alarm.

I could have done more to share this with people. So that's my encouragement, people, is don't give up, don't lose hope. It is lonely at times, but God's hand is still on the wheel of the world, and it's still on the wheel of your life. And He has positioned you for this time in history, for a purpose and for an exact reason.

And Jan, as you often say, the world's not falling apart, it's falling into place. We really have got to put our faith and our trust in that fact and know that God is intimately involved in each of our lives as we try to serve Him in these last days. JAN MARKELL If there's one pastor listening right now, and we're down to just a couple of minutes, but if there's one pastor listening and he's beginning to think, you know what, I really should tackle this. What kind of a word do you have for him as we go out of the program?

JONATHAN A couple of things. One, I would say, believe it or not, the pastors that I talked to who have decided to start teaching about Bible prophecy in the end times actually experienced church growth in a depth of discipleship. And also, many pastors, it may not be their passion, they may not be as knowledgeable in it, but just like churches can bring in experts in for marriage or finances or whatever the other biblical topic is, be aware that there's several people that you can bring into your church, either resources or bringing them in personally, physically, to help kickstart and teach this topic to your people in a way that's not sensationalistic or overdone, but that is thoroughly biblical and will answer the questions. I was speaking to 500 students just last week in Arkansas, and they had never studied Bible prophecy before, but I asked them, I said, if you have thought in the last week that there's something scary on the news or something that got your attention or something that made you think, are we in the end times, raise your hand.

Every single hand in the room went up. It's the elephant in the room that everybody's thinking about, but they don't know where to turn if we don't teach them. So bring in the pros and be courageous and teach it.

Even if you start small, start somewhere and introduce this because it's on everyone's mind. The Non-Prophet's Guide to the Book of Revelation, Bible prophecy for everyone. Find it in my bookstore, give my office a call. I'm reading a paragraph from Todd Hampson going out of the program here. He says, though the last book of the Bible is often seen as scary, complicated, irrelevant, divisive, confusing, or boring, the truth is that studying revelation with the right perspective is one of the most practical, relevant, and exciting things you can do as a believer in Christ.

Unfortunately, the enemy has convinced many that reading revelation isn't worth the time because he knows that his destruction and our ultimate redemption and the Lord's glorification are all detailed in this breathtaking capstone of the Bible. I want to thank you for listening, folks. We'll talk to you again next week. Thank you for your faithful support of this ministry and radio outreach now in its 20th year. Reach us by mail at Olive Tree Ministries, Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311. That's Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311. You can call us central time at 763-559-4444, at 763-559-4444. You can also connect with us electronically at That's We'll always remind you that nothing is falling apart, rather everything is falling into place.
Whisper: medium.en / 2024-01-11 05:58:41 / 2024-01-11 06:23:00 / 24

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