Rapture Fervor: Why Are We Still Here?

Why are we still here? Rapture fervor has overtaken social media platforms. But yet again Jesus has not called the church to meet him in the clouds. How must we press on? We will talk about it.

Will the rapture happen on September 23rd? As in a couple weeks from now.

Well, this concept has become viral all of a sudden. And here are just a few clips of what's happening online. Is the rapture really now in September? That's what a lot of people have been saying. You may have seen many videos, TikToks, or comments claiming the rapture is coming in September.

This is during the Jewish Feast of Trumpets. But then I saw a TikTok of a guy saying he was selling his house and all of his cars, and he was getting himself ready for the rapture. happening on September 23rd. And I realized People actually think the rapture is happening September 23rd. Welcome to Understanding the Times Radio.

with Pastor Josh Schwartz and Ken Michael. Radio for the Remnant, brought to you by Olive Tree Ministries. Ministry founded by Jan Markell. In our program, Pastor Josh and Ken talk to Pastor Barry Stagner of Calvary Chapel, Central Orange County in Costa Mesa, California. Are we still in the times of the signs before the tribulation?

In the extended version, Pastor Josh and Ken talk with Mondo Gonzalez of Prophecy Watchers. Rapture, disappointment, and fatigue are real issues. How must the believer fight against them?

Now Time is a limited commodity, I think we need to recognize. and time and eternity are mutually exclusive. And here's what we find about eternity in Revelation 22, 5. There shall be no night there.

So the night day cycle. comes to an end. They need no laugh nor line of the sun For the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign for a month and a half. For how long?

Forever and ever, that's what you say. Amen. But it's just incredible to see how suddenly. everything changes and You know, one of the things I think that doesn't change is Israel is in the crosshairs, many blaming them For the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Why don't you talk about that?

Uh for a minute as we launch into our stories.

So as you as you know, Charlie was a staunch supporter of Israel for many, many years and especially ever since he has been to Israel, not just alone, but also with his wife, Erica. And Charlie was also there present at the opening of the U. S. Embassy In Jerusalem. I think that um The life, but mostly the death of Charlie emboldened a lot of conservatives to no longer stay.

In the Shadow And look at the pictures from the Saturday in London. where for the first time the government was too afraid to ban the patriotic l uh British people And we're talking about Over two million people that showed up uh to a an amazing amazing display of Um enough is enough basically. I think convergence is the perfect word, recognizing all the things going on simultaneously. And you know, Amir, we at some point in time are going to reach that point where this progression within the prophetic narrative is going to come. continue until it's finality.

And I think we're seeing a lot of evidence and everything Is falling into place, so to speak. And I think as Jan Markell likes to say, the world isn't falling apart. things are falling into place. Welcome to Understanding the Times. I'm Ken Michael, along with my co-host, Pastor Josh Schwartz.

And we are so pleased to have as our guest again Pastor Barry Stagner. He's the senior pastor at Calvary Chapel in Orange County, Costa Mesa, California. Pastor Barry, welcome back to the program. Thank you guys. Really great to be with you again.

And we are so looking forward to having you at our next Understanding the Times event, October 9th, 7 p.m. Central. You can live stream that at markhenryministries.com. Pastor Barry, before we dive into our topic today, tell us what's going on out there in Orange County.

Well, I think we're experiencing everything that everyone else is in all parts of the world, really. as uh so many people are are mourning the loss of Charlie Kirk. There's been you know a lot of churches have seen uh pretty hefty inflow or influx of people. uh because of this with lots of questions i was in a A situation myself last Saturday. where the predominant number of people there were non-believers.

And they're all wondering what on earth is happening. And so we have prime opportunity now, not just in Orange County, but I'm thankful it's happening in Orange County. to talk about the love of God and the plan that he has. uh for all of us to uh come into faith and believe and trust in him. you know we're we're in kind of uh Um conference season, myself and Amir.

and we're headed towards Lee's Summit, Missouri. and we'll be doing a conference called Awaiting His Return. with myself and Amira and Dr. Mark Hitchcock. Speaking, there's still some seats available.

That's a rather large sanctuary. We've got two days. And you can go to beholdisrael.org and find out how to register there. If you're in the Missouri area. And Ken, I started a new program.

Not too long ago, Amir and I merge two programs together and we're doing one called the Middle East and Beyond. And then I started a new program called Take Five, where we look at difficult passages of scripture. Every Thursday, 10 a.m. Pacific is when it airs live. But it's of course archived on YouTube.

And we've talked about forgiveness passages, what they really mean. We talked about once saved, always saved. You know, can you lose your salvation? Questions that are pressing. and just recently did a series on the Ezekiel War.

and the various interpretations of when that happens and who's involved. Thanks for asking, but that's kind of the update. on uh my end of the country, so to speak. Fantastic.

Well, Pastor Bray, thank you for doing that. I've checked out the take-five and I'm really, really excited about it. You're doing a fantastic job. And I know that you're going to continue in the future with that. And of course, you only take five minutes for each of those, right?

Yeah. Ish. I've had to tell multiple people, you know, take five as a saying. You know, it means take a break.

So. And some people add why, why are you going 20 minutes? But yeah, it's a little bit longer. Praise God. And it's just a great opportunity to really clearly search the scriptures and understand what they're saying.

So thanks for doing it.

Well, Pastor Barry, last year you published a book called Called The Times of the Signs. And in the last 12 months or so, have we continued on the trajectory that you've outlined in that book? Are we still in the Times of the Signs? Oh, absolutely. I think we're seeing more and more evidence of the lateness of the hour.

You know, we've got the strong delusion is raging in our world today. Illogical things are defended and protected as fact. And we're seeing so many precursors to What's going to happen during the tribulation period? One of the ones. that I think is really interesting.

Actually the morning Uh before Charlie Kirk was assassinated. I had mentioned on a program that Amir and I do together, the Middle East and Beyond, that I mentioned, that we're seeing the the necessary attitude in the world that would cause them to you know fulfill the the prophecy of Revelation chapter 6 and the rider on the red horse. Where we're told there after this Writer takes the piece from the earth that the Rider on the white horse introduced. that people kill one another and that that word translated as kill means to butcher it implies a level of brutality. that on a global scale that I don't think we've known historically where it's not just armies engaging but it's individuals brutally murdering one another.

And I was mentioning the fact that we're seeing things. that give evidence of that type of thinking. of being present because people disagree with you. Uh politically or on any particular moral issue. And then lo and behold, two hours and 23 minutes after.

the program, Charlie Kirk was assassinated. for what it is he believes. Yeah, we're we're right on schedule with what the time of the science is reminding us of. As we work our way through the prophetic narrative, yeah.

So, Pastor Berry, as you know, I was involved in law enforcement for 30 years. I saw some of the worst things that human beings can do to each other.

So, let's talk about some of these things, especially what you and Amir talked about in that clip we heard: the violence and lawlessness and the lovelessness that's going on right now. You discussed this in your book, and we're talking about the birth pangs. How is this leading up to the tribulation period?

Well, again, you know, these things have to develop beforehand. There's not enough time during the tribulation. for the attitudes of humanity to develop during the tribulation you've got you know these things that happen under the four horsemen of the apocalypse that are horrific leading to the death of some one-third of the inhabitants of the earth. you know and this this is where the whole thing starts And I know there are those who believe there's a three and a half years. of global peace uh prior to where all the trouble starts at the midpoint of the tribulation.

I don't hold to that view. I think the trouble starts right away. I think when this guy rides onto the world scene, with a covenant in his hand represented by the bow. Right after that we see that peace is taken from the earth. And people start killing each other.

So again, You know, we have to see these prophetic elements. developed at least an attitude. before they turn into action prior to the tribulation. And, you know, I don't think and There's a better example of the love of many growing cold. than the loss of a woman's love for her unborn child.

I think that's the proverbial bottom of the barrel, so to speak. I don't think there's anything underneath that i think that is proof that we've come into an age Where natural familial love has grown cold. And that phrase that Jesus used. is actually the phrase you would use to describe a corpse. That's been dead for some time and cold and And lifeless.

So there'll be a time period, I believe, prior to the tribulation. where love is dying natural affection is dying. Which of course the end result of that. is going to be lawlessness. and lawlessness.

Is going to lead to violence. And that's where we're at.

So again, I think we have ample evidence. to one, understand that the rapture uh not only is imminent but I don't think you know that that imminency necessarily implies ignorance. are late in the game, so to speak, in Hebrews 10, 25. says you can see the day approaching. You know, I think we've got a clear vision.

unlike any generation before us. of the lateness of the hour and the nearness of the tribulation. and violence, lawlessness, and lovelessness. Are raging in our world today. I want to just touch on this for a second because this is really important to deal with.

Um Are human Mind. Was not created to be able to see those things or understand those things or really be able to think through the things that we are seeing. I mean, it started 20 or more years ago with desensitizing the youth when it came to video games and graphic content and just the utter bloodshed and gore that went there. And now we are seeing in real time, and I think with Charlie Kirk, it's even more evident how our minds cannot handle those things.

So, can you just give a bit of pastoral? Insight and maybe counsel on how to work through that if someone did see those things or is seeing this bloodshed and destruction, how to manage their heart and their mind with that. Yeah, that's a great question. And actually, it kind of stirred me. Uh to pray Regularly for Dr.

Frank Turek, and the fact that he was just feet away from Charlie and watched his dear friend. be assassinated right before his eyes. You know, I spent 20 years as a police chaplain. And when I got a call, it was never good news. And it it triggered things in my memory bank.

and visuals of things that I'd seen in the past that you know, they pop up from time to time, but two, Two incidents in particular that were uh particularly brutal. have been a part of my thinking over these last days. And I thought, my goodness, I can't even imagine what Frank is going through. But you know, I think one of the things that that we need to remember is that you know we have in Christ that soundness of mind In the midst of all these things, and you know, I think. you know, when these things visit our thoughts and when we see things we were never meant to see, you know, we have to continue that.

trust pattern in God and not allow emotions to Overrule the moment. And one of the things, one of the tools. that we were given that uh you know i had mass casualty training and things of that nature And that was to just make sure the people involved. at the scene began talking about it. One, because that allows things to move out of the emotional into the cognitive and you start you know thinking things through and rather than shutting down so Yeah, I think the healthy thing to do, Josh, is to but talk with other people and not simply you know go into a cocoon and and hide and try and process yourself.

process it yourself but rather I have someone to talk to and You know, we always called it debriefing. You know, I had some firemen at the church that would see horrific things. stationed up in LA, south central LA in particular. And, you know, we do regular. chat sessions, you know, to just kind of talk things through.

And it's almost like a relief valve. when you get it out of the emotional and not be controlled by that.

So I think people who are struggling with this Having seen things that as you said We were never meant to see. You gotta have somebody to talk to. You know, talk to your pastor, elders at our church. uh spiritually mature friend But just talk it out. I think that's the most healthy thing to do.

Now with that being the case and the lovelessness, the lawlessness, the brokenness, the convergence of all these things and this delusion that we seem to be living in the midst of, can you give our listeners some sane Practical, rational encouragement on how to live in these. days that we are we are living in the midst of. Yeah, Josh, I think there's a saying that floats around. I can't remember where. I first saw it, but it was some years ago.

And I think we have to remember our mission, the reason that we're here. And the way that this pastor put it that I've I was reading some years ago. He said the Church is the only entity in history who has the responsibility to rescue their enemies. That's a rather unique Calling that the church has been given by God Himself. And so, one, we have to realize we can't throw in the towel, we can't go.

hide in the bushes or move to Montana and buy guns and water and store water and all that stuff that we Pierre said somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but And we need to stay the course. We have to finish strong and finish well. And recognize the authority of God's word. Yeah, I have to say I believe that part of why we're at where we're at is because there's so many churches and therefore pastors. who aren't teaching the book.

Yeah, they're teaching emotional or financial things that are beneficial. to the recipient they're not elevating god And reminding us that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Our God is a consuming fire. And you know, I think it's interesting, Josh, that if we Consider a couple of things. One, Jonah and the message that he preached.

It was You know, definitely a homily, it was a short sermon. 40 days and Nineveh will be overthrown. And what the end result was, is that everybody from the king to the common person repented. And the disaster was averted. I think we also need to Remember that in Revelation chapter 14, we've got an angel.

Flying in the mid-heaven, the high point in the sky where the sun is at noon. preaching the everlasting gospel and and Personally for me, I believe this is the fulfillment of the whole world hearing the gospel. It's by the angelic uh preacher. who's flying in the sky, and his message is fear God and give him glory. for the hour of his judgment has come.

Now this is identified as the everlasting gospel. And when you remove those components, I think you're going to see a society and culture. like we see today and many people within Churchdom. uh on board with it so You know, I think we just have to remember we're here. to share the good news.

And, you know, there's many sayings about, you know, the blood of the martyrs down through the centuries, you know, extending you know, the the authority of the word of God. And we've seen this happen with Charlie. you know, people are talking about the things they should have been talking about all along all of a sudden.

So, Pastor Barry, you mentioned deception is going to be a key. I think that's one of the key things that is a sign that we're near the end. And you also mentioned the rapture.

So, I want to play a quick clip and get your comment on this. No, I haven't been raptured. This is again another failed rapture prediction. First of all, when are Christians going to learn that no one knows the day or the hour? No one should be making predictions about when Christ is going to return.

Jesus tells us no one knows the time. He's going to come back like a thief in the night. A thief does not give you a heads up at when they're going to come.

Now many will say, look, we're still believing, and you can see their clips saying, look, we're believing it's still going to happen. I am 100% confident and still sure, and I will always be sure that the rapture will happen before September 24th passes. I am confirmed about this. I'm telling you, have faith. Jesus is coming back in a couple hours.

Issue is, you're not believing Jesus when you think that he's going to come on certain dates. You're believing yourself. You're listening to Understanding the Times Radio, the program founded by Jan Markell. And we carry Pastor Barry Stagner's most recent book, The Times of the Sign. You can check it out at our store.

That's our store at olivetreeviews.org. It is there. We are also going to be featuring Pastor Jack Hibbs' new book in our store called To Take a Bold Stand. That will also come with a, or it can be purchased with a workbook, and that goes live on October 7th. You can check that out at our store, olivetreeviews.org, underneath the store tab.

Well, Pastor Barry, we have seen a lot of crazy things happen in the last couple of weeks with people date setting, and yet we're still here.

So how do we work through this reality that another date has been set, another date has passed and people are still here. The rapture has not taken place. Yeah, Josh, this is one of the strangest things in the church in these last days. You know, when somebody writes a book and says this is going to happen, thus and so, and here's why. and then it doesn't happen.

People buy their next book. It's just one of the Most bizarre things. that I think we're experiencing in the church today. And you know, I I don't think you know we need to point back to the Old Testament and stoning false prophets and all that kind of stuff, but certainly don't buy their books and You know, again, you know, looking at this September 23rd thing. Yeah, you've got I saw a guy uh not sure where he's from, but He said he had a vision.

He said Jesus physically appeared to him. and said that He's coming back on September 23rd or 24th. I mean, that's not very definitive. even though it does isolate two particular days associated. uh with the feast of trumpets but You know, if Jesus is talking to you.

He's not going to say, oh, you know, I'm not sure. 23rd, 24th.

Sometime in there, I'm going to come back, you know. And so the whole thing was just silly to me. when it's jesus himself that said in the element discourse No man knows the day or the hour. And, you know, I think we have to continue what he stated there because there's a lot of people. that stop right there in their a presentation of what Jesus said.

Because the next word he said after, no one knows the day or the hour but my Father in heaven. But As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be. with the coming of the son of man so You know, we are told about one particular specific In these last days, that we ought to be looking for, and that is violence filling the earth. We can check that box. The whole earth being corrupt before God, we can check that box as well.

and the thoughts and intents of man's heart being only evil continually. I think we've hit the trifecta there and can recognize. That we are in the season where the Lord is going to come back. But we still don't know. the day or the hour.

And Josh, I've heard so many times you know about the seven trumpets of revelation the seventh trumpet is when The rapture is.

Well, then At that point in time, there's been some significant wrath of God. poured out on the earth, which means first Thessalonians five nine Was in error, and the church is appointed to wrath, and we'll go through. a portion of the tribulation. You know, I think we need to be very, very careful. when we find somebody saying something that is in direct conflict with the word and You know, there's been more than one time where someone has given me a book.

And I started reading it and I ran across something that was just flat out. or radical or contradictory to scripture. And I threw the book away. And I think that's, you know, I wasn't going to. Give it to somebody else.

Uh, you know, and I think there needs to be some of that when you see somebody. who's written a book or has a teaching. That is in direct conflict with the word of God, stop listening. Don't buy the next book. And you know, because really I think right now.

The pre-tribulation rapture believing Christian. has a lot of egg on his face in the eyes of the world. And that's the last thing we need. in the midst of this generation that that we're already living in. Hmm.

Yeah, Pastor Barry, real quick, and we'll stay on this topic for just another minute here. Talk about the damage that it does to the church, believers, a dispensational view, and especially people that are just coming to faith that want to learn about what's going to happen here in these last days. Just explain real quick the damage that all of these videos that we're seeing, and the pastor from South Africa you were talking about who saw the vision, and Christ Himself told him these dates are when the rapture is going to happen.

Well, again, you know.

Well the question that pops up then is what about the other things you've told me? You know, when someone is just experiencing Coming to faith in Christ, and they hear something, they buy into it. They're hoping for it. The day comes and goes and nothing happens. then the logical conclusion on that person's part is well what else did you lie about?

And this again goes down to the credibility of the message of the Bible. and those who proclaim it. And that's why I think, Ken, we have to have that. uh the the sound doctrine in mind all the time whenever we are uh exegeting a passage of scripture or saying something that has to do with the last days in a prophetic scenario. that we're watching being fulfilled right before our eyes today.

We have to stay within the confines of Scripture. Because one When things like this happen, we have a credibility factor that's a damage significantly Not just in the eyes of the world, but certainly. in causing a new believer to stumble. This is, you know, just it's we go through these things. periodically and every every year You know, somebody's talking about the Feast of Trumpets being the rapture.

And you know, the problem with that is That means there's one day or two days a year. That's a candidate for the rapture. What do you do the rest of the year? If you're supposed to live. in expectation of the glorious return of Christ.

And it's a January.

Well, then you're not expecting him until uh the fall f uh feast days begin.

So Again, it it just hugely damaging to the credibility. Of the church. Yeah, Josh, and it totally takes away from the imminency of his return. I mean, it's. It's false teaching.

It truly is. And I think it's important to point out because Paul himself believed that the rapture was going to happen in his day. That's what he states in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4. And so the imminency aspect is this: it can happen at any time. There's nothing that needs to take place to set the stage for the rapture to take place.

Barry, as you so eloquently laid out, we are seeing these chaotic, dark days, and we know we're on the very edge, if you will, of the tribulation period.

So we have got to be getting closer and closer to the rapture because it is clear we are not appointed for wrath and that the church will be taken out before the wrath of God comes and the first seal is opened. But there have been many when we talk about this topic that scold us for getting on people who set dates and say, well, shouldn't we be looking forward to it? Yes, we should absolutely be looking forward to the rapture every single day, but we should not be leading people astray to saying that it's going to happen this day, period. We should always be looking up because our hope, our salvation, it does draw near. What are your thoughts there, Barry?

Well, you know, Jesus said in this life you'll have tribulation. And, you know, I hear a lot of times that people. you know, or arguing, well, you need to be preparing people for the 70th week of Daniel and You know, to me, that that just is a display of biblical ignorance because the seventieth week of Daniel is One of the 70 determined for Daniel's people in the holy city, which tells us the concentration. of divine authority is going to be focused on Daniel's people, the Jews, and the holy city Jerusalem.

So, you know, watching all these things happen. And seeing so many jump into these kind of things. You know, it's unhealthy for the church. You know, we need to stay away from these things and recognize. You know, the Bible has given us the information that we need.

Yeah, we know we're in the last days. Hebrews 1.1 says... You know, in these last days, God has spoken to us in His Son. Yes, we're clearly in the last days.

So when you start. seeing people say things contradictory. to establish biblical truth. you know then Run. Stay away from this.

You know, participate. Don't buy the book. Don't. You know, spread that kind of teaching and you know, watching. the aftermath of all this and I don't think we've even seen much of it yet, but there are going to be people.

Who are brokenhearted because of this, and again. you know, the the credibility of the pastor who is faithfully teaching the word. will be called into question along with every other Christian. who says, you know, the rapture is still coming.

So You know, Josh, it's just really something. that uh it it's shameful actually uh to say these kind of things when You know, the Bible has told us many, many things to look for. But we need to keep looking up for our redemption, isn't I? And we don't know the day or the hour. and setting dates has always been catastrophic for their credibility.

of the church. Amen. Well, Pastor Barry, time has eluded us. How can people get in touch with you?

Well, you can go to, I have a website, barrystagner.com. uh the church's website uh or through youtube you can listen to All the archive messages there. And, you know, the church's website is Calvary. C O C Central Orange County. Or just barrystegner.com.

You can just type in my name on YouTube and you can get all of the take fives there. as well as the teachings. uh from Sunday and some of the various conferences. uh that I speak at around the world.

So That's probably the best we can. Thank you for that. Pastor Barry, I want to thank you for joining us. God bless you and keep up the good work. God bless you.

Thanks for having me. Also coming up Thursday evening, October the 9th, 7 p.m. Central, we're going to be having Pastor Barry Stagner join us for another Understanding the Times event. That's October the 9th, 7 p.m. Central at Revive Church.

That's 7849 West Broadway, Brooklyn Park, Minnesota. If you're able to join us, we'd love to see you there. If not, you can live stream at markhenryministries.com. It's going to be a great night with Pastor Barry Stagner, October 9th. Welcome to Understanding the Times, the extended version of our program.

I'm Ken Michael, along with Pastor Josh Schwartz, and we are so glad to welcome back to the program from Prophecy Watchers Mondo Gonzalez. Mondo, thanks for joining us. It's always good to be here with you guys. I'll say this again. The date of the 23rd, which is going to be the rapture of.

the church This stage is Irrefutable. I am 100% confident and still sure and I will always be sure that the rapture will happen Before September 24th passes, I am confirmed about this. I'm telling you, have faith. Jesus is coming back in a couple hours. On the 23rd, if you Uh that thirty two reads twenty three backwards.

So yeah, there you go. There's going to be a harpazo, a gathering, a collection. On September 23rd. This year is for all. Ah, the Lord is good.

This year is for all of those. that wants science. That wants facts.

So let's start here and let's look at when the Gregorian calendar was made. The Gregorian calendar was made by the dead church, right? The ones who pray to saints pray to angels. They changed the calendar. in fifteen eighty two.

And was Jesus using a Gregorian calendar? Was he? Let's see what he said to Joshua. Let's see here. He says to me, On the twenty-third and the twenty-fourth, twenty.

Good deep. Five. I will come To take We have it typed here, next full moon. Let's hit enter. Boom.

October 6th and 7th at the full moon. Will be the Julian calendar, the calendar that the Lord used, the one where you have two people. who heard from the Lord, When crossed reference The Lord is on his way.

Somanda, you and I were in Europe a couple weeks ago, and we were talking about this because the internet was literally flooded with people insisting that the rapture of the church was going to happen during the Feast of Trumpets, probably September 23rd, 24th. And we put out a video from Europe talking about this, and that date has passed. We know that there was a pastor from South Africa that gained traction who said he actually heard from Jesus Christ Himself that the rapture 100% was going to happen on the 23rd or 24th.

Well, those dates have passed, and since the online chatter as well, the calendar is wrong. We got that wrong. It's going to be a probably October 10th through the 13th, somewhere in that day. They don't know for sure, but probably around October 13th. Give us your thoughts on that.

Yeah, it's very interesting. I mean, the. I guess my thoughts are is that I'm actually kind of sad it for for many people because I've been getting comments and emails from people who were. Got caught up into the date setting and the date suggesting, and the guy that you mentioned from South Africa. I mean Not only did he say 100%, he said a billion percent that he was confident that it would happen.

And so when you look at it, you're like, wow. And the other thing, too, is.

Now, I people have emailed, they maybe they actually several people have emailed me that were critical of our video, Ken, you and I. Right. And they apologized.

So I mean, I appreciated that, that they were. They were upset at you and I for saying what we did. And yet they in their email to us basically was hey you know what I I learned a lesson and that really is our hope. You know, in that look, you and I, even we said it in our video, we're excited. We're just as excited as everybody else.

We're just excited for every day, and not necessarily a specific high-watch day. Of the year.

So when I get up every morning, it's like, hey, today could be the day. But see, that's the hard thing. For many of them, they can't really say that because. they're looking towards a specific time frame. Yeah, Josh, and we even talked about this: the problem with date setting, this pastor from South Africa.

Well that's Not only live stream the event, but he was on Gutfeld. I don't know if you saw that, Mondo, but he they mentioned it on Gutfeld, and then they turn around and say that those that are speaking out against it are mockers and scoffers. They refer to 2 Peter 3. Yeah, and that's the craziest thing to me is Satan is truly using this to try and divide people and deceive people and ultimately bring this desire of delusion towards people. But that's exactly what we would expect him to do.

Now, Mondo, I really want to get just some encouragement from you for those who might be experiencing one of two things: either rapture fatigue or rapture disappointment. How, as a follower of Jesus, can we deal with those things, rapture fatigue, and rapture disappointment? Yeah, I think that, you know. I've been watching since 1993. And I guess, you know, one of the things that not only as a person is, you know, as a Christian.

But also, as a pastor, so someone who has taught the rapture and the imminency of the rapture can happen anytime. You see the dates come and go, whether it's 1988 or 1994, 2011, you name it. And so I think what has happened is, my desire for the church. is to be quick, but also to to be stay excited and to stay busy all the time. Um But Also the burnout part I'm not burned out about waiting for the rapture, but one of the reasons why is because I'm not putting a date out there, even in my own heart.

I think we can do it. You know, am I sad that the rapture didn't happen, you know, two weeks ago or whatever?

Well, yeah, I'm sad that didn't happen yesterday either, or they even two years ago. If you you can avoid burnout by playing the long game, you're to endure. There's an endurance factor here and also not getting sucked in and caught up. Because let me just say it this way. Um Most of the time, the reason why there's burnout is because people get emotionally invested too much.

They're not sober-minded, and so the scripture tells us to be sober, which means to be not controlled by emotion.

Now, again, I'm excited, I'm looking for that crown of righteousness, 2 Timothy 4:8. I can tell you that much. I'm looking for his appearing, but we have to just not, we just have to avoid it, avoid it altogether. We said, be excited. We said it can.

But just don't suggest dates, don't date set. That's the way that you stay In the long run, in the long run. And Josh, we talked about this. It takes away from the imminency of his appearing. And that's the tragic part of this.

People get all worked up and all excited, and then there's this huge letdown after. There truly is. And I think it's important to keep a scriptural, a biblical perspective. John tells us in 1 John chapter 2 that we are to be living lives, abiding in him, living lives that are faithful, so that when he does appear, we're not ashamed at his coming. And then Jesus himself, even after his Olivet discourse, the most famous part there in Matthew chapter 24, he continues on in Matthew chapter 5 and talks about the talents.

And really what we're supposed to be doing is as we're waiting for Jesus to come back and take us to be with himself, we are to be living in accordance with his desires for us, seeking his will and using our time, our talents, our energies as good stewards for the kingdom. The gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Yeah. And Mondo, what do you say to people that refuse to stop airing these video clips? And we're seeing them from all over.

And I've seen some of them, yeah, some have come back and apologized, but many of them haven't. I mean, what do you say to people that? That, like, the average person that watches this, and then they take those video clips and spread them around, what would you say to them? The typical, or I would say that the prominent quality of a Christian, which a Christian wants to be like Jesus, is humility. Jesus said in Matthew 11, 27, 28, he was very humble.

Philippians chapter 2 speaks about humility. And humility, this works two ways. Humility works on our part so that we're not up here gloating. You know, I told you so. That's not my heart right now.

It's simply, as a pastoral mindset, is to warn people not. To get sucked into it. But the other part of the humility is for those. that did get sucked into to admit it, many people are are are uh They're digging in, they're doubling down. They just changed the dates.

They're talking about all these other calendars: the Gregorian calendar, Julian calendar. It was all fixed. Look, God knows. And so for them, they're desperate in their attempts. to maintain a certain level of prediction.

And so we gotta remember that. People forget in the Old Testament when people made predictions. And in the name of the Lord, and like this gentleman in South Africa, I mean, it was so serious that God had them stoned.

Now, I'm not saying that that's a New Testament principle, but you do see the... The principal idea that God was very upset because whenever he had anybody speaking in his name, Old Testament or even now in the New Testament, it causes damage to the body of Christ. As we know as well, In humility, we have to look out, and these people need to acknowledge that this has caused a shame. On the body of Christ. It has embarrassed the body of Christ in many ways.

And so I just encourage people again, we should be humble, but they also should be willing to take accountability. I mean, accountability is humility. It is. I couldn't agree more. And Josh, we know in the last chapter of Revelation, it says, Do not add anything to this text.

And unfortunately, that's what we're seeing out there. Yeah, when people are date setting, they're they're Really, trying to put their opinion over God's command and God's truth and what He has spoken in His prophetic word. And I think it's important to always go back to what Paul says, especially when we're dealing with the rapture. His most famous passage that's a rapture passage is out of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4. And he doesn't tell us to set dates, he doesn't tell us to, you know.

Do anything like that. Really, what he tells us to do is to encourage one another. Keep pressing on, keep persevering, keep doing what's right. Why? Because the Lord could come at any moment, and we need to encourage each other with these words.

President Trump has declared that peace in the Middle East is beyond very close as he presented a new plan to end the war in Gaza in the presence of the Israeli Prime Minister. Hamas says it's studying the plan, which demands it disarms and stops governing Gaza, and this may be hard to accept. The deal envisages governance being taken up by a committee of Palestinian technocrats, supervised by an international body headed by Mr. Trump and later a possible Palestinian state. Eight Arab and Muslim nations have also jointly welcomed the proposal, as has Britain, France, Italy and the European Union.

So, Mondo, let's switch topics here. You wrote an article, and your knowledge of Hebrew is pretty extensive, as I've learned from hanging out with you and talking to you. What else we're seeing online is the fact that There's a peace agreement supposedly that's going to come from Gaza. We know that there's the Abraham Accords, and many people are relating this to the covenant that the Antichrist is going to eventually confirm.

So, could this possibly lead up to that, this covenant with many? I know you don't think it's many nations. Give us your opinion on what Daniel 9:27 is talking about. Yeah, I did write an article recently, kind of an extensive article, and people can find it at prophecywatchers.com. Slash Daniel nine.

I tried to make it really easy, but um I think that what it's very important that we get the Bible right so that when we do. go look out at the world or our international events or geopolitical events. that we are looking for things that are rooted, I think, in accuracy. One of the things that we've been seeing, or it's been around a long time, is that the Antichrist is going to sign a peace agreement with many nations. And they base that on Daniel 9:27.

And so what all I tried to share was that First of all, the word peace doesn't appear anywhere in there. The context doesn't lead to it being a peace agreement. The idea of him confirming a covenant with it actually says literally in Hebrew, la ravim for the many. And so the many there in Daniel 11:33, it's the same exact phrase. It's a very specific phrase.

Uh, in Hebrew, is referring to the Jewish people.

So, this covenant that he's confirming is for the Jewish people. And it's not even, again, it's not a peace agreement. If you look at the context, and all I did is simply, people can check this out. If you look at the word in Hebrew, the word Beret for covenant in the breast of Daniel, it's referring to the Mosaic covenant.

So this makes perfect sense in the context because. The next exact phrase is. He will stop the sacrifices in the middle of the week.

So it's clearly a reference to sacrifices and temple services, which everybody agrees on. And if you say, well, where's the instructions for the temple? Or the temple services.

Well, that's the law of Moses. That's the Mosaic covenant.

So it's very, very clear.

Now, let me just say this as well, though. That I do think that even though this idea of peace. It appears in First Thessalonians 5 as well as in Revelation 6.

So I'm not saying that there isn't going to be this Thing towards peace, I just don't think it's fulfilling Daniel 9:27. It has prophetic significance because Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 5: when they say peace and safety, sudden destruction will come upon them.

So it does have prophetic significance, just not for Daniel 9:27. And so I think if we make those very fine distinctions there. We won't conflate. There's a conflation going on between These other passages in Daniel 9:27 when we don't need to. Yeah, because we're seeing online, Josh, that people are saying, Well, if this gets signed, the rapture has to happen before that.

Get ready. And we just want to caution people. Yeah, the rapture could happen today.

However, this. Agreement or covenant that's going to be made that they're saying doesn't necessarily mean the rapture is going to happen. Exactly. And so we have to be very cautious. And Mondo, I really appreciate your perspective there because you're bringing people back to the scriptures, back to the context.

And I think that's the most important thing we can do. We have God's word. We have to take him at his word and be very strategic, very structured, very systematic in the way that we study and understand his word.

So when it comes to that, those passages there say in 1 Thessalonians chapter 5, it talks about peace and security. What are your thoughts there? Is that a peace and security that is going, that the nations are crying for that just paves the way for the Antichrist and the beast system to walk right on the scene? Yeah, I think that what you're going to see is you know The question comes up is Yeah, which I appreciate objections. I've I've got them as well.

What about 1 Thessalonians 5? And I say, well, If you look at what Paul is saying there, Paul is saying that when they are saying peace and safety, That this is talking about the world. This is talking about the day of the Lord's arrival. There's going to be at that time some level of universal type mentality of peace because, how do we know that? Because when the Antichrist or the beast system arrives on the scene with the first seal in Revelation 6.

The second seal comes, it says immediately. That peace is taken from the earth.

So there is peace there, but I think 1 Thessalonians 5 is referring to Revelation 6, or in connection with Revelation 6, rather than Daniel 9:27. Uh there's no doubt there is this um Basically, optimism that is going on. And then God's judgment lands and brings absolute chaos to the world, which, as we know, in the first half of the tribulation period. When the anti-crisis is on the scene, he's not our dictator yet. He's building his consensus.

And so he's doing it in the midst of chaos, which is the first three and a half years.

So that's when I see those two tied very, very nicely together. Because, again, the In Daniel 9, the word peace isn't used anywhere, but in Revelation 6, it is. It actually says peace is taken.

So I think that's the connection with 1 Thessalonians 5. Fantastic.

No, that's phenomenal. Thank you for making that clarification and helping us to just be Bereans, to go back to the word.

Somano, do you see the Palestinian or Hamas, I should say, giving in to this current Peace agreement that President Trump, Netanyahu, and even the European nations and most of the Arab nations have now said: yeah, you should do this. You know, this is pretty fascinating because My first response is going to say no, because, but the way that it has been set up, I actually think it's very providential. In that, the way that I'm not saying Trump is this master planner, but the way it's set up is pretty amazing in that he got most of the Arab world involved. He got some concessions from Israel, which really weren't concessions at all, because. Israel said quite clearly that they had their objectives, and all of those are in there.

But then, what it did is it kind of embarrassed. It's going to embarrass some of these countries that last week made proclamations: the UK, Canada, others, Australia. France about ha declaring a Palestinian state because Hamas has always been the need to reveal who they really are. And most of the West is completely blind or ignorant or just naive. We don't know what the word is there.

But Hamas does not want a two-state solution, they want a one-state solution, which is there.

So the West is just either again naive to believe it. or whatever, but nevertheless. They just reached j just in the last probably an hour or two hours ago. They have had time to look at this latest 21-point plan. And the latest news is that they communicated to the BBC that they are going to reject the plan because They just see another international force, which is part of the 21-point plan to be in there, as another form of occupation.

And so they are not gonna release the hostages. They are not gonna disarm.

Well, see, Netanyahu knows this. He knows this. He knows he's worked with them, he's battled them for a long time. And those that watch Hamas are just, I encourage people to read their charter. They cannot compromise.

Right. Couldn't agree more.

Well, Mondo, time's gotten away from us, but We have a conference coming up next week. Tell our audience about that. Yes, October 9th through 12th here in Norman, Oklahoma. We got 25 speakers. Ken, you're going to be there.

You'll be one of them. We got 45 messages and as we know things are Things are just massively. We say heating up, but I don't, I think we're going to be saying that until the Lord comes back. But we have the opportunity. We already have close to a thousand people coming.

It's going to be great, like-minded. The fellowship is awesome. People just get to sit around and enjoy one of those company. As well, if you can't make it, you can join us through live streams.

So you have to just go to prophecywatchers.com. You can get all the information there. It's going to be a great time. Appreciate it. Yeah, hopefully, you all can join us in Oklahoma City.

That will be fantastic.

So, Mondo, I want to thank you. Our guest today has been Monto Gonzalez, Prophecy Watchers. I'm Ken Michael, along with Pastor Josh Schwartz. Check out our website at olivetreeviews.org. That's olivetreeviews.org.

Until next time, take care and God bless you all. Also, coming up Thursday evening, October the 9th, 7 p.m. Central, we're going to be having Pastor Barry Stagner join us. For another Understanding the Times event. That's October the 9th, 7 p.m.

Central at Revive Church. That's 7849 West Broadway, Brooklyn Park, Minnesota. If you're able to join us, we'd love to see you there. If not, you can live stream at markhenryministries.com. It's gonna be a great night with Pastor Barry Stagner, October 9th.

Contact us through our website, olivetreeviews.org. That's olivetreeviews.org. Call us Central Time at 763-559-1. 44 44. That's 763-559-445.

We get our mail when you write to Olive Tree Ministries and Jan Markell, Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311. That's box 1452 Maple Grove, Minnesota. five five three one one All gifts are tax-deductible. You might feel disappointed to still be here. But as followers of Jesus, we have a great opportunity to share the gospel.

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