Again the Jews are being blamed for everything. and the world is lining up to divide the land and acknowledge the nation of Palestine. What on earth is going on? We will talk about it. And I can just sort of picture the scene in a lamplit room with a bunch of guys sitting around eating hummus, thinking about what do we do.
About this guy telling the truth about us, we must make him stop talking! And there's always one guy with a bright idea, and I can just hear him say, I've got an idea, why don't we just kill him? Welcome to Understanding the Times Radio. with Pastor Josh Schwartz and Ken Michael. Radio for the remnant.
Brought to you by Olive Tree Ministries, a ministry founded by Jan Markell. In our program, Pastor Josh and Ken talk to Trevor Rubinstein of Chosen People Ministries. and Pastor Aaron Broughton of Victory Baptist Church, Maple Grove, Minnesota. The Jews are again the scapegoats. What must the church do?
Uh So it was about 2,000 years ago in Jerusalem and Jesus shows up and he starts. talking about the people in power. And he starts doing the worst thing that you can do, which is telling the truth about people. and they hate it. And they just go bonkers.
They hate it. And they become obsessed with making him stop. This guy's got to stop talking. We've got to shut this guy up. And I can just sort of picture the scene in a lamplit room with a bunch of guys sitting around eating hummus, thinking about what do we do.
About this guy telling the truth about us, we must make him stop talking. And there's always one guy with the bright idea, and I could just hear him say, I've got an idea, why don't we just kill him? He was an extraordinary friend. You know, he said, he wrote me a letter on May 2nd. this year.
He said, one of my greatest joys as a Christian is advocating for Israel. and forming alliances to defend Judeo-Christian civilization. A few weeks before The tragedy yesterday. I called him and I spoke to him and I said, please come to Israel. I invited him to Israel.
And sadly that visit will not take place, but he was He was a defender of our common Judeo-Christian civilization. He was unbelievably excited to walk at the footsteps of Jesus here. Yeah. He valued our bond, the bond between America and Israel. He is holding up.
He is severely misrepresenting. Those sentences are real. But I am calling upon Bibi Netanyahu, the dear friend to Charlie Kirk. To publish the letter's entire contents, like, don't start with just two sentences. publish the entire thing.
You're holding it? I'm saying you're severely misrepresenting The contents that in May Charlie was concerned about Israel. And their influence on American politics and how they were pushing things that he felt were. In conflict with his beliefs, free speech. Welcome to Understanding the Times.
I'm Ken Michael, along with my co-host, Pastor Josh Schwartz. And today, we are privileged to have two special guests with us. First, we have Trevor Rubenstein from Chosen People Ministries. And joining us for the first time, locally here in Maple Grove, Minnesota, from Victory Baptist Church, is Pastor Aaron Broughton. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us.
Thank you. Good to be here. Yeah, it's always fun to be here with you guys.
Well, before we dive into our topic today, Trevor, give us a brief update on what you've been up to in your ministry. Yeah, so I am the Local representative of Chosen People Ministries. We're the oldest mission to the Jewish community in America. And yeah, so we share the gospel with Jewish people. We help serve the Jewish people.
And God willing, we help the church turn away from the historic practices of anti-Semitism that have been so destructive to that cause. And, Pastor Aaron, this is your first visit. Thanks for joining us.
Well, it's great to be here. Shalom to everyone. Awesome. Tell our audience about what's going on here, right here. You're just down the street from where our office is.
Yeah, it's good to be a good neighbor. But I've been at Victory Baptist Church now for about five years, and our family's been involved in Jewish ministry really around the world for over 25 years. We were in Israel for about six years ministering in Tel Aviv. And just have a heart and desire to reach the Jews as well as Gentiles with the gospel of Jesus Christ. And I'm very thankful for our church and having a heart for that.
Amen.
So gentlemen, the information and misinformation that's going on about Israel, we heard in that clip. The comment that Tucker Carlson made kind of was an inference to that. Israel is responsible for the assassination of Charlie Kirk. What are your thoughts on what we're hearing out there right now? Yeah, unfortunately this is nothing new.
Blaming the Jewish people for everything is a common practice throughout world history because God has a future hope and promise for these people. And so the enemy, of course, wants to eliminate them. Jesus is very clear about this in John chapter 10. starting in verse 18 where he says, no one takes his life from him, but I lay it down of myself. I have the power to lay it down and the power to take it up again.
This command I have received from my Father. And actually, in the book of Acts, Peter makes this very important and powerful comment in Acts chapter 4, verse 27, where he says, Against your holy servant, Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate and the Gentiles and the people of Israel were gathered together to do whatever your hands and your purpose determined before it to be done. Jesus gave his life for our sins, and Jesus died by the Jewish people and the Gentiles, by the Jewish leaders and the Gentile leaders, so he could die by everybody, for everybody. If Jesus didn't die because of your sins, then you're not forgiven. Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Now, Aaron, let's just talk theologically for a moment. Was God caught off guard with the death of Charlie Kirk? Absolutely not. God, who is sovereign, who is omniscient, he knows everything, he knows the start to the finish. He definitely knew his plan for Charlie Kirk and his life, his life expectancy, and even the circumstances of how he died.
And so it surprises us because we're not fortune tellers. But I think it has woken up the world. It's woken up churches. It's woken up people who are struggling maybe with what to do about God. And even as we're talking about, what to do with Israel and the Jewish people.
And when these words from Tucker Carlson, a lot of people kind of miss that, but those in Israel and even among Jewish believers, they picked up on that really quickly. I picked up on it. And it was very. Very distracting from really the greater message of Charlie Kirk's funeral. Yeah, absolutely.
And I think as you were talking there, really we are seeing over the last number of years these watershed moments in evangelicalism.
So we had a watershed moment in 2020 with COVID and where the church was going to stand on what happened there and how to deal with that. 2021, 2022, we have not only George Floyd just here locally and internationally, but you also have this movement of woke ideology and the LGBTQ plus movement. Then you've got 2023, another watershed moment of October 7th and what the church is going to do with Israel and how they are going to handle this. And now we have the death of Charlie Kirk and the fallout thereof. And I think again we're seeing another watershed moment in where is the church going to land and how is the church going to respond to all of these things and will they support Israel?
Will they support the narrative? Or are they going to go crazy like a lot of some somewhat conservative people are doing? Yeah, and there's a movement that's developing that's sometimes referred to as the woke right. The idea is finding someone to blame for all your problems. And so instead of actually looking to improve yourself or to get into a better spot, something that lines you up with the will of God and puts you into a place of succeeding and being a blessing to others, you just look for someone to blame for anything going wrong.
And so this, of course, is going to inevitably be the Jewish people that are blamed for this. It's actually, it's similar to even what we see within Marxism. Marxism teaches that there is this overlying, controlling group that has everything. This is called the bourgeoisie, and they have to be eliminated, and their power then has to be given to the masses. And so what we see in this woke-right movement that people like Candace Owens or others are really participating in is they're saying the same thing.
They're actually prescribing to Marxism. It's just they change bourgeoisie with the Jews. And this, unfortunately, is the development. And unless we as the church want to become Marxist, we have to truly stand against this. Amen.
So Pastor Aaron, following the assassination, did you notice a change in your church? In other words, did more people show up at church? Or what was the feedback from the people that attended your service? Actually, within probably the hour of the news breaking forth, I had several text messages from our own congregation. Very concerned, says we need to talk about it.
It was on a Wednesday, so we have a Wednesday prayer meeting, and we spent a significant amount of time discussing the issue, looking at it biblically. People talk about thoughts and prayers, how they're really worthless, but Prayer is probably the greatest thing we can do. Amen.
We have a great and mighty God, and we have the privilege of taking our burdens and giving it to the Lord who is above all. And so, when we look at the death of Charlie Kirk, it definitely affected our people. And yes, there was. probably a lot of talking points, somewhere people went to different rallies to commemorate. And so yeah, it has affected us and even people I've talked to on the street, whether they agree with them or not, it's really kind of shook them.
And I think this is a great opportunity, especially for the church, to really take advantage of the moment that God has given us and share the gospel. Yeah, let me follow up on that real quick, because we saw these watershed moments where people come to church. I think back to 9-11 when the churches were absolutely packed. And then about a month later, we were right back to normal. What's your advice?
And I get both of your opinions on this. What's your advice to what's happening out there? And I know, Trevor, you've talked about this a lot with what's going on in Israel.
Now is the time to preach the gospel to the Jews, but what should we be doing as evangelists to during this time when people are open to hearing the gospel. Yeah, and so let me express something that's a particular concern that we see developing. People, in order to look for what's truth, they're going to the internet and they're going to talking heads and people that often aren't even politic or aren't even theologically trained. And so this is a dangerous direction if you're looking to learn about God from people that don't necessarily know about God. People have to be in their Bibles.
They have to read their Bibles, they have to study. Study the Bible, they're being fed so much information. How do they know what truth is unless they have truth to compare the information to? And so we see people turning away from actually knowing scripture and just wanting to listen to other people that tell them this can be lazy. But also, it's very important that people go to Bible-believing churches, right, Pastor?
Absolutely. The Bible is the foundation for our faith, and everyone should, number one, be in the Word, but also be in a good church. Have a pastor that preaches the Word of God unashamedly. Amen.
And also, in light of the current conflicts, that is not afraid to address some of those issues as he can. And again, point people to Jesus. But remember, let's go to the two commandments. The greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and then to love your neighbor as yourself. And I think the biggest struggle that Christians and really the world has is that.
People really don't know God. And when we understand of who God is, That will make such a difference. And I say, if you have a heart for God, you're going to have a heart for people. And that, therefore, lies in the gospel and the gospel presentation. You're right.
And I think it's really important to say this as well, because we've been accused of making Charlie Kirk and his death more of a messianic figure. And people have told us, stop talking about Charlie. It's time to move on. The truth is, yes, Charlie is no savior. He's no messiah.
He is a mere man that loved Jesus. But we have to understand that his life represented a follower of Jesus' life. And this is a time for us as followers of Jesus to proclaim the gospel and call people to live in a way that is honoring to the Word of God and to stand up on it.
So we're not going to stop talking about this because we are calling the church to stand where it needs to, to reach the lost, and to be an example of salt and light in the places in which God has placed them. Yeah, and he was also martyred for that faith. He truly was. A modern day martyr.
So gentlemen, a big meeting just occurred here within the past week. I want to play a short clip and then get your take on it. The UK, Australia, and Canada have all formally recognized a Palestinian state, defying the White House and delivering a blow to America's strongest Middle East ally. Indeed, when you look at what they say in their recognition, they say, We really think there should be a Palestinian state, so we're going to recognize one so that it can then exist.
Now, believing in fairies does not conjure them into being, it doesn't make them real, no more so than believing in a Palestinian state. But what it really does accomplish is blowing up the hostage negotiations that President Trump invested so much of his political capital in. We can't forget October 7th, can we?
now as if to encourage continued conflict.
Some of this body is seeking to unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state. The rewards would be too great. For Hamas terrorists for their atrocities. This would be a reward for these horrible atrocities. Including October 7th, even while they refused to release the hostages or accept a ceasefire.
I look at London where you have a terrible mare, terrible. And it's been so changed.
So changed.
Now they want to go to Sharia law. But you're in a different country. You can't do that. Both the immigration and their suicidal energy ideas will be the death of Western Europe. If something is not done immediately, they cannot.
This cannot be sustained. You're listening to Understanding the Times, the program founded by Jan Markell. And today we have two special guests with us here in the studio: Trevor Rubenstein with Chosen People Ministries and Pastor Aaron Broughton from Victory Baptist Church here in Maple Grove, Minnesota. And we are covering some very important topics. And this is not just...
the end here. We will have an extended version as well where you can find the extended version on our website and on all of our social media pages like YouTube and Rumble.
Now, gentlemen, like we just heard in that clip, there is a lot going on this week in recognizing the majority of countries in the world recognizing a Palestinian state. How in the world did we get to this place? Yeah, and what an important moment and time that we're in where The Lord clearly states throughout Scripture that he judges nations based on how they treat Israel. And in Joel chapter 3, verse 2, it states, I will also gather all nations and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat, and I will enter into judgment with them there on account of my people, my heritage, Israel. Whom they have scattered among the nations, they have also divided up my land.
And so there's this clear mandate to not divide up the land. And this is what the nations are moving to do. But you see, as nations become more and more godless, as Donald Trump so eloquently pointed out, as they're even heading towards Islam, and that's becoming more prominent in a lot of these historically Christian nations than even Christianity, that it makes sense that they're moving into a direction that opposes God's will. And God forbid America moves into that direction. One of the primary reasons that America has been so blessed is because we have desired to be in line with the will of God, particularly.
when it comes to the nation of Israel. Yeah, I just returned from Europe, and I can tell you they are at the breaking point. In fact, if you saw some of the protests, they had almost 2 million people come out and protest. We talk about the 900 no-go zones, where if you're a non-Muslim, you don't even dare go into those zones.
So I don't know how you turn that back. I don't know what you do to combat that except get the gospel out there. But they are being overwhelmed, and now they're fighting back, and they're warning us. This is coming to America, and I tell them it's already here. And if you want to know the future of America, just look at what's happening in Europe right now because we've copied and done the exact same thing.
We've brought hundreds of thousands of not just Muslims but Islamists into the country. And our fate rests on what we do with this. Yeah, and in Europe, they tried to fight. the rise of religious zealousy with secularism. And you saw it failed.
Truly, the only way to oppose the rise of Islam is with the true faith of Jesus being the Lord and Savior through the gospel. And so very well put, Ken. Yeah, this is a real big concern for us, especially when we see ourselves taking an approach that we know doesn't work. But also, you'll notice this. You will unify with groups that you agree with.
And so what we see from the radical left and from the radical right and radical Islam is they all hate the Jews. And so you're seeing these factions move together, which means that you are partnering with radical Islam and you are letting that take precedence in the society in which you live when you take those positions. Yeah. So Pastor Aaron, we heard in that clip. that the UN, most of the UK nations now, have aligned with Islam and they want a two-state solution.
Is there ever going to be a two-state solution? Uh practically speaking, no. With everything that's going on in the Middle East, I think one thing that I encourage people to do is do your homework on the land. Israel is about the size of the state of New Jersey. Where I lived in Tel Aviv, we were just, I'll be honest with you, 45 minutes away from the Gaza Strip.
And the Gaza Strip itself is just a tiny piece of land. But remember the neighborhood you're in, too. Israel is surrounded by so many Muslim countries that are around there. And so in understanding the layout of Israel, even the people, I think most people would be very surprised when they land in Tel Aviv and when they actually meet Israelis on the street. And you'll actually be surprised that there is a large Arab population within Israel proper who are Israeli citizens, serve an Israeli government, and the police and many other aspects.
And even in the Israeli military, there are Arabs that serve there.
So the whole mantra that's going on right now of Jews versus Arabs, when you really look into the subject, people are arguing over a surface matter that they really don't fully understand. You're absolutely correct. There is a unity, if you will, in the nation of Israel amongst the people because they understand the importance of Israel and the location that they're in and how the Lord has shown grace even to the sojourner and to the immigrant. And the Jews do a great job doing that. And I'm thankful for that opportunity because it gives us the opportunity on here to see how we are to interact with people, how we're going to be kind and lead people to the true God of the scriptures.
Yeah, so gentlemen, let me get your take. Is there a salvation plan for Israel? Oh, yeah, that's one of my favorite questions, Ken.
So, of course, I appreciate that. And there's always a remnant, right? I myself am a Jewish person who has come to believe in Jesus. And this is a massively growing movement in America. There's estimates by some polling by Pew Research, says maybe even 19% of the American population considers themselves Christian today.
There's something happening. But yes, so God has an ultimate plan for the salvation of Israel. You see, what happens is Jesus is coming back, and He's coming back to Jerusalem. And when he comes back, scripture is very clear who's there. It's actually the people of Israel.
That are there when he returns. Interestingly, The thing that leads up to this is all the nations of the world turn against Israel. It says this in Zachariah chapter 12, verse 3, and it says, And it shall happen in that day when I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples. All who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it. God uses that to judge the nations supernaturally.
In which then the people of Israel turn and repent and cry out to Jesus, God whom they pierced, it says in Zachariah chapter 12, verse 10. And this Correlates with his return.
So there is a national turning of Israel at the very end, which, of course, is not just reiterated by Zachariah, but also in the New Testament. Yeah, Genesis 12, 3. I will bless those who bless you, the seed of Abraham. I'll curse those who curse you, or to treat lightly. And I think what we're seeing right now is blatant disregard for even God's plan for Israel.
I kind of expect that in culture, on campuses, things like that, but unfortunately we're seeing that in churches too. We're seeing a disregard. And so I think it's pertinent for us to understand, going back to Scripture, what does God say? What is his plan? God has not cast away his people, which he foreknew.
He has a plan for Israel. There is a future restoration of Israel. And it's going to be beautiful. And yes, all the nations are around it. One thing we see, even at the United Nations, this week, it seems like there is no friend of Israel except maybe the United States at this point.
And some days I even wonder on that. But nonetheless, as we see, God is not done. He ultimately is the one in charge of this. And so I encourage us to keep trusting God, keep trusting His Word, and there is hope. There is absolutely hope.
Now, Pastor Aaron, you brought up Genesis 12, and there is a movement right now that says that it stops there. and that that was a promise to Abraham.
Now Can you walk us through the Old Testament? Does that promise that God makes end in Genesis 12 and with the death of Abraham? Or does that carry on through his descendants? Jacob and following.
Well, Josh, that's a great question.
Some people argue that, yeah, it stops with Abraham, it's only to Abraham and that immediate context. But we see that promise actually is given also to Isaac. Later on to Jacob. Even on, if you see in the wilderness captivity, you enter in Balaam, who pronounces a curse, but even he acknowledges that instead of cursing Israel, no, I must bless them. That's what God wants.
And so even though that Israel would fall into sin, and when in Israel's history have they ever been totally committed to the Lord? Maybe for a day or two, but ultimately God is going to work through Israel, and he has. Through the Jewish people, we get two great gifts of eternal value, the word of God and the God of the Word of the Messiah. For that, we should be eternally grateful. Amen.
That's exactly what Paul says in Romans chapter 9, that this is a gift from the Lord. These are the blessings that we receive as Gentiles. We get to see the beauty of Jesus and be able to have salvation through Jesus as well. It's an amazing line throughout all of Scripture, that those who bless Israel will be blessed, and those who curse Israel will be cursed. And it doesn't just end with Abraham.
So gentlemen, there's a lot of online chatter out there from some pretty prominent people that have podcasts and so on. That modern-day Israel is not the Israel of the Bible. Can we clarify that once and for all? Yeah, absolutely. And I think this is actually a really simple thing to address.
There's multiple places where the Lord says, whether it be in Leviticus chapter 26, Deuteronomy chapter 28, that when he disperses the people of Israel, it's actually a curse of God because of their disobedience. It says here in verse 64, then the Lord will scatter you among all peoples from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods which neither you nor your fathers have known. And so the idea is Israel's rejection leads to their suffering in hopes that they will repent and turn to him. And so this is something that we see throughout Scripture. God, and this is very clear and very important, God is the one that spreads them, and it's a curse of God.
And so, if the people were regathered by the strength of man, what this means is man by his own strength could overcome a curse of God. Of course, this is an impossibility. Man is not more powerful than God. They can't overcome these things. And in Jeremiah chapter 31.
In verse 10, the Lord even says this. He says, hear the word of the Lord, O nations. Listen to, he's talking to the nations of the world. He's saying, pay attention to this countries. He says, and declare it in the isles afar off, says the Lord.
He who scatters Israel will gather him and keep him as a shepherd gathers his flock.
So God says the same one that scatters Israel is the only one that's going to be able to regather them. And this is very clear in Scripture. And it's for his purposes because like we stated, Jesus is coming back to a Jewish Jerusalem. If we oppose this, we oppose the return of Jesus. You're absolutely right.
And on top of that, when Jeremiah writes that and says that, the church did not exist. And so many will say, well, the church has replaced Israel. And so that's what we're talking about with the regathering. That is absolutely false and incorrect. Yeah, when did God scatter the church?
I mean, that wasn't something that occurred. This is specifically talking about the scattering of Israel, and it's clear. Clearly, the context of this chapter to your point.
So, Pastor Aaron, then God promises to regather that nation. And make them a nation in one day. Who's ever heard of such a thing?
Well, God has.
So explain that. You know, we think of modern Israel. It's just amazing. Here we are since 1948, seeing Israel as a nation. Yes.
So it's made up of Jewish people. And it's interesting that God brings them back, I believe, to the very land of their ancestry. Also, their own language, the Hebrew language, is now brought back after sitting more or less dormant. It's used for different religious reasons, but nonetheless, now it's spoken language on the street. I'd be honest with you, I think the prophets would be just kind of rubbing their eyes, wondering, wow, this is just amazing that this is still going on.
But God isn't surprised by this. And so I think it definitely should. And here's another thing I believe too: especially for a Christian, if you have had the chance to visit Israel, you get to actually set feet in the very places where the stories of the Bible came true, which actually underscores the truthfulness, the veracity of scripture. And I don't know about you, but that just excites me. Amen.
Let me touch on this. I think it's really important. is that Jesus comes back when Israel repents. And so what that means is that Israel has to be in the land in disbelief first. And of course, Ezekiel speaks very clearly towards this, where the bones are brought into the land before the Spirit is breathed on them and they come alive.
And so Israel first has to come in in disbelief. This is what we see happen. We should not oppose God's will. It's a dangerous place to be. Hello, everybody.
My name is Ray. Welcome to the Evangelical Dark Web. Today, we're going to be discussing Jack Hibbs getting the call, and that call is to clamp down on so-called replacement theology. I've been following trends on you know Christian theology and one of the trends is that Uh dispensationalism is dying off it is basically terminal with the younger generations of believers. And I think that the tech-savvy dispensationalist pastors have caught on to this.
They know that they are losing. Uh the debate You know, now that the internet has allowed People to discover other schools of eschatology, they know that they're losing and they're trying to come up with a compelling way to argue against the other side. And so you're seeing a lot of. Dispensationalist pastors get the call to clamp down on replacement theology and anti-Zionism. And some of these pastors, Jack Hibbs is who we're talking about today, but Frank Turik has done a recent video trying to be.
Be pro-Israel, encourage Christians to be pro-Israel. Mark Driscoll, I believe, has also done videos of this sort as well.
So Jack Hibbs? Recently, I got the call on Wednesday or on Tuesday.
So, we're doing a video on Wednesday about it. And It's just more of the same bad argumentation, and it suffers from the fact that dispensationalists do not represent the other side that they are arguing against. At all. They don't attempt to articulate what the other side believes when they're arguing against it. I have never heard it in person or online, a dispensationalist articulate.
what the other side, a covenant theologian, believes. They don't do that. They just don't. And That is more of the same from Jack Hibbs, but Jack Hibbs, even worse, does kind of fall into the trap of dual covenant theology, which is an actual heresy. You're watching Understanding the Times, the extended version.
Our ministry was founded by Jan Markell some 25 years ago. Joining us is Trevor Rubenstein and Pastor Aaron Bratton.
So, gentlemen, Pastor Jack Hibbs is a good friend of our ministry. Is he part of this dual covenant theology that this gentleman was talking about? Uh hardly.
So, uh and and it's interesting, right in this clip, he's talking about misrepresenting the other side. Sure.
So, yeah, dispensationalism actually is an understanding that God works. Through different people in different times, right, is part of it. And so that doesn't change how salvation works. It doesn't change. No one is saved apart from Christ.
Dual covenant theology teaches this. Jewish people get to. Get to a righteous standard with the Lord through their practice of Judaism. Gentiles get to the Lord through Christ, right? And of course, nobody has ever been right with the God through the practices that were instructed through the Mosaic covenant.
Nobody's ever been able to keep it. No one's ever maintained that. Salvation is through Christ alone. And of course, dispensationalism teaches that. It just, dispensationalism shows the flow of God's revelation to where first he reveals himself to Israel.
Then eventually, even when the new covenant comes, Jesus says very clearly, I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
So the new covenant was a gift for Israel. But if I offer you a gift and you don't want it, then I can give it to Ken.
So it's their rejection now leads to the salvation of others. And then after that gospel message goes throughout all the nations of the world, then Israel is enlightened in some way, shape, and form. And they come to believe in Jesus, and then they also come to salvation.
So, dual covenant theology is saying there's a different means to salvation. No, it's Christ alone. And that is what dispensationalism. There are, of course, some people that might prescribe to dispensationalism that are dual covenant, but that is such a small fringe minority, generally hyper-charismatic group that, again, would have that type of a belief system. But again, within covenantalism, there are how many problems?
So we see most, I think if I'm not mistaken, every single liberal, major liberal denomination, theologically liberal denomination, either prescribes to ah or postmillennialism.
So do we say ah or postmillennialism always leads to it? No, of course not. But there are problems within different camps, but this is a small camp. And Jack Hibbs is not part of it. that would prescribe to that jacket.
Adamantly shares the gospel with Jewish people. Yeah, and it does seem with talking heads all over the internet lately that. Dispensationalism and dispensationalists have been given really, really bad names and been run through the mud like crazy people. And so Pastor Aaron, you've been contemplating this a lot lately, and you wrote down three key ideas, three key proponents of dispensationalism. Can we walk through those first, and then we'll understand why dispensationalism isn't dying?
Sure, and I definitely take argument. I will say the one thing in the clip that the person was right: dual covetism is a heresy. Amen.
I do agree with that. But as far as is it dying, no, absolutely not. I would say maybe it's not as vocal. as it was at certain points, but you know, we just, it depends on the day, it depends on the week. But exactly what is dispensationalism?
The word itself simply means a stewardship of time and of God's working. And it's really an understanding of what the Bible says. And so I would say, let me give you just three aspects or keys to understanding dispensationalism. The first, and this is probably the most prominent, is that there's a distinction between Israel and the church, that God sovereignly chose Israel, not because they're the greatest of the nations, but because he loved them and he was going to use them. And again, from the Jewish people, God has gifted the world with two great gifts, the Word of God and the God of the Word, the Messiah.
And so he does that. But also, there's the Gentile and then the Church of God. 1 Corinthians 10, verse 32 clearly states that, that there's Israel, the Gentiles, and the Church of God. And fortunately, the church is made up, should be made up of Jews and Gentiles, believers in Yeshua.
So that's, first of all, a distinction. The next thing is a normal or plain interpretation of the Bible. And so, in other words, we are just simply letting the Bible speak for itself. When you read the Bible, you're not trying to. Misinterpret.
I think sometimes in this there is a what we call a New Testament priority where that almost the Old Testament, other than a few Psalms and a few stories, it really doesn't have any current bearing. today, well, no, the Old Testament is still the Word of God. All scripture is given by inspiration because God breathed. And so the one key thing Josh, that I would say is this, that in doing this, a normal, plain interpretation of scripture is actually self-correcting.
Now the Bible isn't being corrected, but our understanding of Scripture is the more and more I dig into Scripture and understand, taking things that are illiteral, literal. And things that are figurative, but my understanding will correct itself as I study. The third principle is really, and this is the unifying principle of the Bible: the glory of God. God is glorified. In the program that he has with Israel, in his redemption of the nations and of the world, and also of his judgment, whether it be judgments of the lost, judgments of angels, and even the grace and the glory that he will bring to, think about the millennial kingdom.
And what a glorious, when you think about the glory of God and all of his aspects from Genesis to Revelation, a dispensational approach is really, I would say, a natural reading of this and helps us understand, it helps us to understand the purposes of God. Amen.
And those are key points that you're bringing out. And so let's first dive into that first point of this distinction between the church and Israel. Because the video we just watched, the gentleman talks about replacement theology, and a replacement theologian holds to the belief that. When the church was born, God was now done with Israel. The church has replaced Israel.
The church will receive the blessings that were promised to Israel in the Old Testament. And now, Trevor, we just had a pastor's huddle on replacement theology. We had a pastor's huddle on the geopolitical history of the nation of Israel. Let's walk through this idea of replacement theology. Is that biblical?
Yeah, and let's not forget. Actually, I taught one of those sections, and we were with dispensational pastors, and the thing I taught on was how you shared Jesus with Jewish people.
So, this is not dual covenant theology, clearly. But going back to this and kind of breaking down what replacement theology is.
So, they'll use verses, for example. Like where Paul says that there is no longer slave nor free, male nor female, Jew nor Greek. And so they'll say, see, there is no longer those distinctions. I mean, clearly we understand that this is foolishness. There is still male and female.
So God is not saying that these distinctions don't exist any longer. What he's saying is salvation is available to everybody. Exactly. It has to do with salvation in the context. And from the Jewish mindset, the idea was that you could do more of the law if you were a free Jewish male.
And so you could fulfill the things that physically would need to be done to satisfy the Lord. And so if those things don't exist, he's talking about that your salvation has nothing to do with what you do. It has to do with what Jesus did for you and that you put your faith and trust in him.
So God has these. people groups for a specific reason and Israel actually and and I think that if you really break down what is Israel called to do what is they are a uh they are a unique called people to God are they called to salvation throughout all time no of course not what they are called to is to bring forth the Messiah the first time clearly biologically and actually it looks like the second time when they cry out to him Jesus says very clearly, In Matthew chapter 23, starting in verse 37, he states, O Jerusalem, Jerusalem.
So now he's talking about a location and a people as he goes on and says, you who have stoned the prophets. Of course, we know that Israel was the ones that would reject the prophets because they were sent to Israel. How long I have waited to gather you as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing, so your house has been left to you desolate. You shall see me no more until you say, Beruchaba, Shemaronai, blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord, till you welcome them. And so this message of salvation, it is using Israel for God's purposes through all time.
But Israel in themselves will be saved in the end times. And this is what we read in Romans chapter 11, verses 25 and 26, where it says that after the gospel goes throughout the nations, then the blindness will be lifted upon Israel and they nationally will cry out to him. And it's clearly talking about national Israel within the context, which I'm happy to break down if we wanted to a little later. But anyway, so after the message goes to the gospel, goes to the nations, Israel cries out to the Lord, he returns. Zachariah 12, 10.
It's also in Acts chapter 3, as Peter says to Israel that if you repent and believe, that a time of refreshing will come and the Lord will come back. And this is after he had ascended. And of course, Jesus says it himself.
So we see this throughout Scripture. It's not any type of a Separation other than God uses people for a specific purpose. And the purpose for the Gentiles, according to Scripture, is to provoke the Jewish people to jealousy. Exactly. Deuteronomy chapter 32, verse 21, God says, If you go to other gods, I'll go to other people.
And and he says, You made me jealous by these other gods, I'll make you jealous by these other people. And so this jealousy of the nations coming to faith provokes Israel to come to believe and brings forth the Lord. And this jealousy will not happen. when we propagate hatred of the Jewish people. This is not how you provoke people to jealousy by persecuting them and by accusing them of everything under the sun.
This is uh this is incredibly destructive. Yeah, so gentlemen, uh Zionism has kind of become a slang or or even a negative aspect. Can you uh be a Christian and and be a Zion a non-Zionist? I think maybe ignorantly, but I think if you take Scripture as it's presented and you see, well, what is Zionism about? It's it's really talking about that God has a plan for his people, that Israel has a right to their own their own land.
But remember, it's not for Israel's glory, it's ultimately for God's glory. He calls it Israel my glory. And so the whole purpose of this, even though that Large part of Israel today is even on unbelief. This is just setting the stage for the glory of God to be revealed. And so for us, even from a dispensational point of view, The best is yet to come, and we see that clearly in Scripture.
Yeah, and I think it's fascinating to think through all of these aspects because having a correct Israeli according to what the scripture says really sets us all straight. When we have a literal, grammatical, historical interpretation of scripture, a plain interpretation of scripture like dispensationalists do, then we have all these things that are set in place that are actually pretty clear because God's not trying to hide secret messages in his word to us. He wants to speak clearly so that we understand him, understand ourselves, and understand our need for a savior and how things are working in this world. And it is fascinating to hitch back up to the Old Testament and see the importance of God's faithfulness and his character and keeping his promises, even for the nation of Israel. I often go and teach on God's future plans for Israel, and I'm taken to Ezekiel chapter 36.
And in Ezekiel chapter 36, we have a clear... Yeah. Promise of God to the nation of Israel that he will restore their land and he will give them salvation. He will actually physically restore the people and give them eyes to see, ears to hear, and hearts and minds to understand and obey him.
So let's walk through that a little bit, gentlemen, on what God's future plans are for the nation of Israel and the land of Israel. Israel. Yeah, so again, as I said, if we look through Romans chapter 11, it's very clear on this. And Romans 9, 10, 11 is actually all about the salvation of Israel. That's really the context of it.
Clearly, you can see that in chapter 10, where Paul says, Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved.
So he wants Israel to be saved.
So clearly, let's break this down. This can't mean the church. The church is saved. His prayer isn't so that the church can come to salvation. His prayer is so Israel can come to salvation.
So throughout this book, throughout these chapters, we see this use of Israel as referring to Israel. There's actually one possible exception in chapter 9 where it says, Not all Israel is of Israel. And actually, Paul quotes out of Isaiah something like 13 times.
So it's very possible that even that's a reference to some of Israel because they've rejected the gospel or separated from the fulfillment of everything Israel, which is Jesus himself. And so that's probably the context more so. But if we continue in Romans chapter 11, verse 1, it says, I say then, has God cast away his people? Certainly not. For I am also an Israelite of the seed of Abraham and of the tribe of Benjamin.
Okay, so does he mean the church here? Clearly he can't. He's saying that they seem rejected. They seem like they have rejected this truth. It's talking about the people of Israel.
If we continue into verse 11, he starts to break down God's plan of salvation. He says, I say then, have they stumbled as they should fall?
So is this talking about the church? No, he's talking about national Israel rejecting the gospel.
So why have they stumbled? He says, certainly not, but through their fall to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Verse 12.
Now, if their fall is riches for the world and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness? Massively important. Think about this. This is so important.
So, as Israel rejects the gospel, the gift for them is now available to you because they didn't want it. That means that the gospel has an opportunity to spread throughout all the nations of the world so every tribe, every tongue, every person can hear and receive eternal life through forgiveness of sin and through the resurrection of Jesus that they can now take part of. But he says if that happens when Israel rejects, it's going to be bigger than that when they accept. Amen.
In verse 15, it goes on and says, For if they're being cast away as the reconciling of the world, What will their acceptance be but life from the dead when they cry out, Jesus returns, resurrecting the dead? It's a beautiful thing, it's an important thing. This is clearly in scripture, yeah, and and It's amazing. There is a future hope of salvation for national Israel, period. And it is clear throughout the Old Testament and the New Testament.
Now, the other aspect that I brought up, Aaron, is the land. You lived in Israel, you lived in the land, you ministered in the land. Is God restoring the land, not just the nation again, but the physical literal land of Israel? Absolutely. When you think of even when it started out and Even the early diasporas or the Aliyahs, the immigration that came back to Israel in the late 1800s, all the way up to 1948 when Israel became a state.
And it was only around 600,000, 650,000 Jewish people there. And now it's over 10 million with the current population there. And so, yeah, Israel is definitely growing just on a regular thing. I will say the only place that, you know, worldwide, deserts are growing. They're expanding.
You go to Africa, different parts of the world. Deserts are expanding. There's only one place in the world where deserts are receding, and that's actually in the land of Israel. Yeah, absolutely. The desert, it was David Ben-Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel.
One of his favorite verses is that the desert will blossom as a rose. He has that on his desk. You go to Sedei Bokeh in southern Israel to see that. And sure enough, that was his idea. And so you have the Ben-Gurion Institute of Technology in Beersheba.
Anyways, their whole aspect, one of their big programs they have is actually to develop the desert. Let it grow.
So that's just one aspect to see that. But again, there is going to be a future healing of this land. We see that in Ezekiel. We see how even that the Dead Sea, which interestingly in Hebrew, they do not call it, Israelis don't call it the Dead Sea. It's called Yom Ha-Melech, which means the salt sea, because why?
It's not going to stay dead. Even they believe it. That's in the Hebrew language. And so there's a future hope. But yes, this has been promised that there's a future salvation, a future restoration of the people and also of the land.
And that's throughout really from the time of Moses all the way through the prophets. And yes, even to Revelation. Praise God for God's plan. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's fun to work through this because it's God's promises working themselves out progressively.
We know all this will be ultimately fulfilled at the end of the tribulation period and in the millennial kingdom. But Ken, you've floated on the Dead Sea, and why can you float there? Because it's salt in. But what we're seeing is literally the Dead Sea is diminishing and where the salt sea used to be, now fresh pools of water are there, reeds are growing and fish are beginning to swim in the southern part of what was once known as the Dead Sea that's now living again. The Dead Sea.
This is the lowest point on Earth, a body of water so salty that nothing can live in it. But here's where it gets strange. The Dead Sea is shrinking. Faster than anyone predicted. Every year it loses nearly four feet of water.
But that is causing something entirely unexpected to happen. This is absolutely surreal. We're at the south of the Dead Sea. And I can hear the sound of birds. big body of fresh water that is being formed here.
And there is a Dead Sea right there. As the water recedes, it gives way for underground fresh water springs to burst open and create new, beautiful freshwater pools. In these pools, fish are beginning to thrive. Yeah, it's amazing. The question is, when you read this book, when you read the Bible, why are the Jews being so persecuted, not only by the world, they're being blamed for everything, but the church, many in the church blame Israel and don't accept the message of the Bible?
Why is that? Yeah, so even to your point. When you read about the villains in the Bible, so we see this in multiple places of Scripture. They're making false accusations against the Jewish people. We see this with Pharaoh, for example, in Exodus chapter 1, verse 9 and 10.
And he said, To his people, look, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we. Come, let us deal shrewdly with them, lest they multiply, and it happen in the event of war, that they also join our enemies and fight against us, and so go up out of the land. The Jewish people were just blessing. the Egyptians. Egypt wouldn't have been the power that they were if it wasn't for what Joseph had done in saving this nation.
And then a hundred few hundred years later, they forget about the blessing and they start saying they're a threat. We have to worry about them. And this, of course, happens even in Persia. Uh where we read in the book of Esther about this queen Who comes and really is a blessing to King Xerxes. And it says, And Haman said to King Xerxes, There's a certain people scattered and dispersed among the people in all the provinces of your kingdom.
Their laws are different from all other peoples, and they do not keep the king's law. Therefore, it is not fitting for the king to let them remain. We have to eliminate these people. And so these brought curses upon Egypt, and it brought a curse upon Persia. And so we see this throughout Scripture.
But really, what happens is if Jesus is coming back to a Jewish Jerusalem, then the enemy's mindset and his approach is, well, first if we eliminate the Jewish people, we don't have to worry about this. If we keep them out of Israel, then we don't have to worry about it. If we keep them out of Jerusalem, Then we don't have to worry about it.
So you see that there's a fight to make God's word lie. Where today we see that it actually could be fulfilled. And so the world is fighting against God's ultimate promise, which leads to the return of Jesus. And this is why we're seeing a two-state solution trying to be implemented with taking the land away from the Jews, because the evil one knows. That This is where it's going to be.
This is how it's going to end. And so as long as he can pull that string away, then he has more time to rule and reign on the earth. And so what's fascinating to me in all of this, and we have a quick clip to show this, is it seems like with anti-Semitism on the rise and Jew hatred and Jew blame on the rise, we're seeing it all throughout not only the left, but also the right and in all countries of the earth. Finally, there has been this video that's come forth to maybe help us with the issue here.
So let's play this clip and then get some thoughts on it. A lot of terrible things happen in the world, but sometimes you forget to blame Israel. That's why I've launched the Blame Israel Reminder app. It scans news 24-7 and whenever tragedy strikes, you instantly get alerted on your phone reminding you to blame Israel. A celebrity murdered?
Obviously Mosad. A horrific pandemic? gotta be the Jews. Market crashes? Come on, that one's too obvious.
Don't ever find yourself in that uncomfortable position where someone else is blamed for a tragedy. when you could have easily pinned it on Israel. Thank goodness no one checks facts anymore before sharing idiotic hot takes on social.
So download the Blame Israel Reminder app today. And if for some reason it doesn't load, At least you know who's at fault. You're watching Understanding the Times. I'm Ken Michael, along with Pastor Josh Schwartz. Make sure you check us out on our website, olivetreeviews.org, and check us out on our social media sites, YouTube, Rumble, and so on.
So, gentlemen, we're here with. Trevor Rubenstein, Chosen People Ministries, Pastor Aaron Broughton from Victory Baptist Church, right here in the Minneapolis area. We just watched some satire, a little levity to this, but sometimes The truth that we see in this, I mean, we're seeing the world literally blaming Israel for everything that happens right up until we saw what happened to Charlie Kirk. Yeah, of course. And and interesting, so my wife and I were having a conversation after Charlie was shot.
And it's a horrible tragedy. In the midst of it, I told her, I said, watch tomorrow people will start blaming Israel. And of course that's exactly what happened. There's no evidence to that. Actually, all the evidence is to the contrary.
Charlie was a Devout supporter of the nation of Israel. He didn't change in that. He questioned some of the things that they do, as we all question countries and decisions that they make. But he understood the biblical significance of it and God's future promises. And so, something that I think this is really doing.
is it's creating Division within the conservatives, within the Republican Party, and it's a direct attack. Coming from enemies of conservatism to sow doubt so that they will separate the individuals within the Conservative Party from those who believe the Word of God. and create this separation and really weaken us entirely. Yeah. Well, Pastor Aaron, in the last couple of minutes that we have, can you just bring some biblical encouragement of how to fight against this anti-Semitism and really why we're all here?
I think it's important to understand that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, spiritual darkness of this world.
So, this is a spiritual battle, ultimately. And anti-Semitism, which let's define that, it's really baseless hatred against the Jewish people simply for being Jewish. I know, Trevor, and I, we've discussed this before, that there's people who have. uh Jewish friends who have said they've been uh bothered and persecuted um just simply for that fact, being Jews. It's really eerie.
It's uh very similar to the nineteen thirties in Europe. And so uh how do we understand this and I think understanding what does the Bible say? There is a plan for Israel that Israel right now is dispersed, but half of the Jewish people are back in the land. That itself is a miracle. That should deserve our attention.
God is going to continue bringing that Aliyah, that back, the people back to the land. God is not bringing him back to just a land that's a spiritual entity or something on that. This is a real physical land because it's the same land that the fathers possessed. It's a possession. But the reason is this: this is Deuteronomy 30, verse 6: The Lord thy God will circumcise your heart.
And the heart of your seed, your family, to love God with all your heart, with all your soul, that you will live. And so really the underlying thing in God's Providential plan with Israel. He will bring them back. He will restore them. They will repent.
He will, it says, circumcise the heart, which is another name for repentance. Give them salvation. And the purpose is that they would live. And the only way we can live effectively is in the Lord. It's the Lord who gives us life.
And so there is hope. And so I think in this day and age, the best way we can fight anti-Semitism is with the gospel of Jesus Christ. Let me just say this. I think the worst act of anti-Semitism that we can commit as Christians is when we withhold the Jewish Messiah from the Jewish people and also to the Gentiles as well. The world needs Jesus desperately, especially in these days.
Yeah, you're so right. The point in Ephesians where we have to put on the full armor of God every day we have to get up and we have to get in the word. We have to know the word and then we have to share the word.
So gentlemen, time has run out. I want to thank you for joining us today. Pastor Josh, we have a pastor huddle coming up. Yeah, we do coming up October 7th, 8th, and 9th. I would encourage you, please, please be praying for the pastors that are coming.
The registration is closed because we're so close, but pray for them. Pray for a great time. And we look forward to another pastor's huddle next spring, Lord willing. Trevor Rubenstein, chosen people. Ministry, how can people get in touch with you?
Yeah, so it's pretty simple. If you just Google search my name, Trevor, T-R-E-V-O-R-R-U-B-E-N-S-T-E-I-N, it comes up right away, and you can get in touch with us through Chosen People Ministries. We travel and we speak and we want to help people share the gospel with Jewish people and also to have a better understanding of Scripture and God's promises to them. And Pastor Aaron, how can people get in touch with you? The best way is, well, invite people to our church, Victory Baptist Church in Maple Grove.
You can Google that, go to our website, Victory BaptistMG, as in Maple Grove. Mm-hmm. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us today and keep up the good fight. God bless you, and we will see you next week. Contact us through our website, olivetreeviews.org.
That's olivetreeviews.org. Call us Central Time at 763-35. 559. 44 44. At 763-559-445.
Mm-hmm. We get our mail when you write to Allatree Ministries and Jan Markel. Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota. Mm-hmm. That's box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota.
Yeah. All gifts are tax-deductible. Anti-Semitism is inches away from where it was in 1930s Europe. But take heart. Jesus is in control and he has future plans for the people and land of Israel.
Look up because all things are falling into place. Jesus honor and glory be unto your name Be unto your name
