Is the earth flat? Did America make it to the moon? Is there a global cabal? Conspiracy theories abound in our constantly connected world. How should the believer engage?
We will talk about it. The real issue here is methodology. I am noticing On doctrinal issues. On issues like the King James only issue, the Flat Earth issue. on the Hebrew root tissue.
on all kinds of issues. People are walking away. from sound methodology. All false doctrine. and all corrupt science like evolution, and all corrupt history.
is taught and defended with the exact same bad methodology. Welcome to Understanding the Times Radio with Pastor Josh Schwartz and Ken Michael. Radio for the remnant. Brought to you by Olive Tree Ministries. The ministry founded by Jan Markell.
In our program, Pastor Josh and Ken talk to Lee Brainerd of Soothkeep Ministries. Does your interpretive methodology matter? How does it affect the way you see the world? and interpret the Bible. In recent times, there seems to be an upsurge in the number of people claiming that the Earth is flat.
So the idea of space travel is pretty pathetic. The idea of deep space is certainly debunked. It is flat. stationary most people when they weigh issues They favor a small pile of evidence. And they run with that pile of evidence and they reject all the rest of the evidence that challenges their position.
This is called the selective use of evidence. God gave me a brain. God gave me a conscience. God gave me all these things to use. If he's going to have a problem with the thing that he created, take it up with himself.
Well, I've been a Christian for 30 years.
So the Bible is a flat earth book. You have to take it literally. Like for example in Isaiah, when it talks about how the earth is like a clay wax seal that's stamped with upturned edges. That's just not some fancy story. That's a simile.
It is like. And in Isaiah talks about too, and I'm a Christian. He who sits upon the circle of the earth. There's a difference between a circle and a ball.
Well, exactly. If you look at the original Hebrew, it means disc. There's over 200 scriptures in the Bible that point to a flat earth. If people allow bad methodology, in one area of their own personal investigation and research. You can guarantee that dog is not running alone.
It is running with other dogs. Welcome to Understanding the Times Radio, founded by Jan Markel. I'm Pastor Josh Schwartz, and I've got my co-host with me, Kim Michael. He is preparing for a trip to Europe, so he is not next to me, but we get to zoom him in. Many people online are jumping to crazy conclusions about conspiracy theories and the rapture of the church.
Our guest today will help Ken and I stay consistent in our discernment. He's the founder of Soothkeep Ministries. Lee Brainerd, welcome to the program. Josh, it's good to be with you and Ken. Here on the Olive Tree Ministries program.
Well, Lee, you have recently done a lot of different Videos and content on interpretive methodology, and how it is so easy for people to just get off the rails in their beliefs in conspiracy and other things based on the way that they interpret facts and things around them.
So, Lee, can you give us a quick overview of what interpretive methodology is? Yeah, it's how you approach any subject, whether it's a biblical doctrinal subject or whether it's a scientific question like is the earth round or flat. And Most people, when they approach a subject like this, They wait. the cool theory heavier than they weight tradition. They they weight the cool theory heavier.
Then Uh theology or or science in general. And it makes it a very difficult problem to escape from then. Because you're giving the weight to the error. And then when they do that, They'll go through the evidence and they'll take a small pile of evidence that favors their position, and they'll ignore or poo-poo the large pile of evidence that favors the traditional position, or the theological position, or the scientific position. Lee, that sums it up.
That's very important to keep that in perspective.
Now, Lee, how does your interpretive methodology lead you to wrong belief and even ultimately deception?
Well, if you start off with this notion that you can't trust the American government in anything. Or if you start out with the idea that you just can't trust evangelicals on anything.
Now you've put yourself in a place. where you are almost guaranteed to go astray. And what people do is they confuse the difference between investigation. and doubt It's great to investigate. Go ahead and investigate every doctrine of the evangelical faith.
Go ahead and investigate every doctrine of dispensationalism. Go ahead and investigate whether the moon landing is true or false. But when you move out of the realm of investigation, and you go to the realm of doubt.
Now, you're actually not going to investigate. All you're going to do is bolster your doubt. Hi, Lee, Ken here. Yeah, you brought up a topic that I want to talk about here.
So, We're hearing and seeing things all over the internet. What are some of the specific areas that lead people astray with interpretive methodology?
So, for example, I'm seeing on the internet, people are doubting the moon landing and space travel. And we're also seeing a lot of talk about a flat Earth. Can you explain to our audience, is there any possibility that the Earth is flat? No, there's zero percent chance that the earth is flat. First of all, the proof text that they use in the Bible, well, you can...
Push them a little bit in the direction of the flat earth and make it sound like it's teaching the flat earth. The fact of the matter is that The plain common sense interpretation of those passages is perfectly in keeping with the globe earth or the round earth. And the second thing is When we talk about the scientific evidence that the Earth is round. Um and not flat. We are, for instance, we are talking about a situation where you can go out yourself and do home experiments.
That give you home level scientific evidence. This isn't just a bunch of dumb Christians sucking up gullibly to NASA into a gigantic conspiracy. Anybody can go to the ocean shore and see that the earth is round. Anyone can fly in a jet liner and see that the earth is round. And you if you fly far enough in a jet, You're going to fly far enough watching the train change when you're going in more or less a straight line.
that you're going to see more terrain than you would have on a flat earth. Yeah, Lee, you're absolutely right. And I think it's important to recognize what you explained primarily there is this whole idea of investigation versus doubt. And here, when it comes to this flat earth scenario, it is doubt, doubt, doubt, doubt, doubt. Don't even believe what the people are telling you.
Doubt everything to it. But like you've said there, when it comes to investigating these truths, they are observable. They are clear to a rational, logical mind that is investigating these things.
Now, Lee, how does this turn into your interpretation or our interpretation of Scripture? How do we pull this all together and understand that our interpretive methodology matters not only in the scientific realm, but also the theological realm?
Well, if a person always uses the same method, he's going to get. relatively consistent Uh results. If you pound nails half of the time, With a hammer, and half of the time with the crescent wrench turned sideways, you're going to get inconsistent results. And it's the same thing when you interpret the scriptures. If you always use the historical grammatical hermeneutic and you always use the scientific method, you want to see all the evidence and you will not accept any solution that doesn't resolve all the evidence.
in happy harmony. then you're you're gonna be doing great. But if you approach most of the subjects in the Bible, Like you're using a hammer as a carpenter. And then, once in a while, you come to a subject where you're going down this gullibility. Rabbit hole.
And you want to pound nails with a crescent wrench.
Now you're going to be handling that evidence very differently. And you're going to get inconsistent results. And to me, it's really interesting to observe. That you can run into conservative Christians that are solid on the fundamentals of the faith, they're solid on dispensationalism, but for some reason or other, they're caught up in King James's, the inerrancy of the King James Bible, or they're caught up in flat earth or the theory that the moon landing is a hoax. And on those issues, Not only have they not weighed all the evidence, But if you start trying to present them the evidence, They get frustrated and angry and accuse you of sucking up to the deception.
So, Lee, you mentioned, you know, some of these people that are posting this stuff, they're, they're. Good Christians, they follow Jesus. What's the best way to? I don't want to say push back, but what's the best argument we can make so that we can get the actual truth out there to people so that they see at least the other side of it without getting into all of these online arguments? And it gets frustrating when people want to really point to come across more than they want the truth to come across.
How can we push back against this?
Well, I think our two main things that we want to present is just a consistent encouragement. For the historical grammatical hermeneutic. And uh the scientific method, robustly and consistently applied. And the second thing is, discourage people from this mentality. That um Conspiracy theories are more likely to be true.
than the standard understanding. This is simply not the case. Once people see that there's a few conspiracies out there, and there really are some. And they get caught up in this mentality. All of a sudden, everything is a conspiracy and they want to see conspiracies everywhere.
We need to discourage this mindset. If we can discourage this mindset and encourage people to use a scientific method, we have won the battle. In principle, Without ever addressing any of the dozen controversies that we might find ourselves obligated to address. Amen, Lee. The key word here in all of this is consistency.
We have to be consistent not only in our way that we view the world and the way we measure different things across the world using a scientific method consistently, but we also have to be consistent in the way that we view the scriptures using a consistent interpretive methodology, a consistent hermeneutic. And it always is well to, first and foremost, when you are introducing the scriptures and interpreting the scriptures, using a literal grammatical historical hermeneutic. Amen.
Well, Lee, you guys have a lot going on in Sooth Keep Ministries. Can you give us a quick update on what's going on with you guys? Yes, well, my wife Nita and I Art Caught up in moving, we'll be leaving, Lord willing. on uh Monday, September 1st. For Oklahoma, we'll have our Hensky truck loaded and take a leisurely three-day scenic route drive to Oklahoma.
And we're going to be living in a small town called Drumright, which is going to be about an hour and 20 minutes from the Prophecy Watchers headquarters.
So I'm going to be much closer to prophecy watchers and much closer to a lot of churches and ministries that I'm in close connection with.
So, this would be a great blessing. The other great blessing out of this is that. We're going to be closer to our kids and some of our grandkids. And we're also going to be farther away from the brutal winters of North Dakota.
Well, Lee, we're certainly going to be praying for you and your family, and we're going to wish nothing but the best for you and your ministry, as always.
So as we transition here, I want to play a quick clip and get your take on it. I've been fascinated by Bible prophecy and the end times since the late 90s, and I have seen a lot of predictions come and go. And I've lost count of the amount of times I was sure the world was ending.
Now, from my experience, all of the really big stuff nobody ever predicted or saw coming. Yet I used to follow all kinds of ministries and also certain conspiracy channels that were constantly predicting things that never happened. And I can't even calculate the amount of lost times and years that I kind of wasted being obsessed with what evil things people were doing. And it's not that we want to have our head in the sand. It's definitely not that we want to be unaware, but I can only speak from personal experience.
I believe the devil actually delights in the amount of distractions that can be dressed. up as interest in biblical prophecy. You are listening to Understanding the Times Radio. I'm Ken Michael, along with my co-host, Pastor Josh Schwartz. And don't forget that we have a very active online store at olivetreeviews.org.
That's olivetreeviews.org. We add new products regularly that are designed to help you understand our times and become watchmen on the wall. While you're there, please sign up for our twice-a-month newsletter that keeps you up to date on current events and ministry activities, as well as a free quarterly print magazine you can sign up for and that you can pass along to others who need to know this vital information.
So, Lee. In that clip, we heard a couple of different scenarios, but. We're hearing a lot of talk about peace and security. Why is this so vital when we hear these phrases to keep our eyes on Israel and Jerusalem?
Well One of the He Themes of Bible prophecy is the cry for peace and security in the last days. And even the claim that they have obtained peace and security in the last days, we see that, for instance, in. uh first thessalonians chapter five and Right in the midst of their claim, then they're met with sudden destruction that comes upon them like. The birth pangs of a woman, in other words, the tribulation is going to come upon them.
Well, this whole peace and security message, even though it's going to involve the whole world, it actually is focused on the nation and people of Israel. Almost all Bible prophecy is focused not on the church, not on the world in general. but on the people and nation of Israel, and everything else orbits around that. And so, in the last days, Israel is going to be in a place where she's going to be forced. to look for peace and security.
that sh for herself that she can't get for herself. It's going to start with Gog and Magog. She's going to be up against a juggernaut that she's absolutely no match for, and none of her allies are going to come to her aid. And when this gets resolved by the hand of God, then she's still gonna have this need for the foreseeable future. And in this situation of looking for peace and security, she's going to find.
Held out to her from the Antichrist false peace and false security, and she is going to take the bait. And this is the covenant that's forced upon the many. By the Antichrist in Daniel chapter 9. And this is also that covenant with death and an agreement with Sheol that we read about in the book of Isaiah. Absolutely.
People who, in regards to our first segment here in this program, have a consistent interpretive methodology will come to these conclusions. And yet, on the other side, there are so many people that have a platform, so many people that have a YouTube channel or a podcast that want to. Totally disconnect and oftentimes sensationalize Bible prophecy or lead to fear-mongering.
Now, this lady in the clip that we heard previously is dead on. We need to be. Consistent, and we need to have great discernment in the areas of Bible prophecy.
So, Lee. Why are people so often sensational or fear-mongers when they interpret? Bible prophecy.
Well This is my observation. I think this covers many of them. I don't know that it covers every one of them. But I have observed That You get these young people, they they s uh start up a YouTube ministry. And they quickly realize that they're competing with some of the biggest names in the prophecy industry.
And if they compete with them on the same playing table with the same teachings, That fall within generic dispensationalism. And of course, there's a little bit of disagreement there on some of the secondary issues. But there's a lot of agreement. And if they come and play on that table. And play with those dogs, they're not gonna have big channels.
They're gonna get trampled, they're gonna get overrun. And so they come up with sensational teachings that set them apart. And then they start drawing people away from mainstream dispensationalism. I think that this is going to proved to be a tragic Failure for them. When they stand at the judgment seat of Christ and they realize that every distinctive doctrine that they taught.
Where they differed from mainstream dispensationalism. Every single point. was wrong. and it was causing unnecessary division. when we already have enough division in the body of Christ.
Amen.
Consistency, discernment. Friends, we have to be very careful with who we listen to and what we listen to. Pictures can be sensationalized. Headlines can be sensationalized. YouTube titles can be sensationalized.
And we have to have a consistent discernment in our lives and not be so easily led astray to different doctrines that are sensational or ultimately will longer fear. Yeah, and Lee What I'm seeing is people look at the headlines or they look at current events and then say, Yeah, this is prophetic. But what should we do? How should we study Bible prophecy? And ultimately, what should this lead to?
Well I love this question, Kim. It reminds me of stuff that's going on right now. People see in the Bible there's 10. Toes. On the Final Beast Empire.
And all of a sudden, they notice in the headlines or on somebody's YouTube channel: well, there's 10 nations in the BRICS Empire now.
So I think these are the ten toes.
Well You need to go to the Bible. The Bible's very clear from Daniel chapter 2, Daniel chapter 7, Revelation chapter 13, and a few other places in the Bible. Very clear who those ten toes are, Revelation 17. You can't mistake it. And who the little horn is, it's very clear.
And so this is a great example. If you don't let the plain statements of Scripture. Alone inform your doctrinal and prophetic Teachings, you are going to make some serious mistakes.
So if you're doing newspaper exegesis, If you have a shallow understanding of a prophetic subject like the ten toes, and you see ten mentioned. In like 10 nations for the bricks. Or 10 nations in Europe, and you say, This is it. No, not necessarily. And certainly, bricks can't be it.
Because those nations were never part of the Roman Empire, they were never colonized by the Roman Empire, they have no organic connection. to the Roman Empire.
So, again, discernment and consistency. Friends, if you take anything away from this program, take this away when it comes to the way that you interpret everything around you and everything that's in the scriptures theologically. You have to be consistent. You have to have discernment. You have to be a Berean and study well and know what the Word of God says.
And if the newspaper doesn't match up, then the newspaper isn't part of Bible prophecy. It's not that big a deal. All kinds of things happen all the time. We must be consistent in our interpretation and we must live with great discernment because we are living in the midst of days of delusion. Lee.
Should someone study Bible prophecy?
Well, Bible prophecy has a couple of values. The first value that I think is important to glean from it. is it will teach you the badness of the world. And the goodness of God. I think a lot of people they become Christians.
They're saved, they're going on the path of discipleship, and they don't really understand how evil the world is. and how good God is. And when you come to Bible prophecy, you realize this whole world is living in the mystery of iniquity. It's being. carried away like uh a log on a river And it's heading for the Antichrist and the darkness of the last days.
And when you look at what the Bible says about the goodness of God, we're not only forgiven as sinners, like, we're not merely a criminal that gets let out of his prison cell. We're brought into the family of God with an eternal, infinite inheritance as the sons of God, the heirs of God, and co-heirs with Christ.
Now the second thing that's really helpful here. Is when we come into this world now as believers and we know the message of the Bible, especially the prophetic message. And the creation message. We know where we came from. We know why we're here.
And we know where we're going. We have a conception. Of the purpose of the Of the world and a conception of the purpose of mankind, especially redeemed mankind. Yeah, you listen to people, and even in the Christian realm, there's churches that are preaching there's going to be this huge revival. We're on the right track.
They look at who the president of the United States is and what they're trying to do. And we're not saying that he's not doing some good things, but you look at the world as a whole and you just see how. Dark it is really becoming Christianity is. Almost extinct in Europe, in Western Europe, and it's certainly not prevalent in the Middle East.
So, when we look at these things, it's very hard to say, yeah, there's going to be this huge revival. We have to look at the United States, where the United States is at right now. Many churches are not teaching the full counsel of God.
So, when we look at this and we want to study Bible prophecy and eschatology, where is the best place to begin or start?
Well, I would encourage people Two, read through the entire New Testament, Matthew to Revelation. Four or five times. and just take notes in a note book Or if you're using OneNote or some electronic note-taking program, that's fine too. Take notes on everything it says about the coming tribulation, the coming judgment, the coming deliverance of the believers, and the new heavens and the new earth, the Antichrist. Deception, those kind of things.
and just enter into those statements of Scripture. I think it's amazing that we've got a whole class of evangelicals today that can be absolutely dead serious, deeply invested in the gospel and basic discipleship. Partly invested in theology. And zero invested in Bible prophecy. Why in the world would anyone do this?
The message of redemption that Jesus Christ is bringing to the world involves the first coming and the second coming in perfect harmony. They're glued together, inseparable, like two sides of the same coin. The first coming was the payment for redemption, and the second coming is the deliverance of the redemption that was paid for. Why in the world would anyone in their right mind want a redemption that's paid for and never delivered? It makes zero sense.
This is like going into an automobile dealership. Dropping $75,000 down for a brand new Corvette and then walking away and never taking possession of the vehicle. You you should be locked up if you're that mentally uh deficient. Yeah, and why wouldn't we want to uh Share the only book that promises a blessing for those who read it, hear it, understand it, share it. I don't understand that.
Oh, amen. I absolutely agree. The book of Revelation is absolutely unique. It takes the prophetic message of the Bible, it sums it up, it brings it to a head, it fills in certain Areas that were not filled in by the previous revelation. It explains some areas of previous revelation and puts them in their right context and order.
To leave out the book of Revelation. is like getting a birthday cake without frosting. Lee, that is a great analogy. Thank you so much for this discussion. It has been an encouragement to me.
Friends, we must be consistent. We must be discerners. We must read and teach the full counsel of the Word of God. And with that in mind, Lee, we are having another pastor's huddle coming up this fall, and you are the one that's teaching it. Can you give us about 30 seconds of what you'll be covering and why it's so important for pastors to sign up for this huddle?
Yes, we're going to be covering Revelation 19:20, 21, and 22.
So, we're going to be covering things like Armageddon, the second coming, the wedding supper of the Lamb. We're going to be covering the great white throne judgment, the new Jerusalem, and the new heavens and the new earth. And we're going to answer a lot of questions that people have, and we're going to encourage each other. In deeper ways, just be not just merely Bible prophecy. But in how there's Practical truths here that can be applied in our lives and the lives of the sheep in the churches that we pastor.
Welcome to the extended portion of Understanding the Times Radio. We're going to continue our conversation with Lee Brainerd. I'm glad to be with you guys again. We've got a lot of stuff to talk about. Yes, we do.
Let's listen to this clip and dive right in. Is the rapture really next month? The timeline hidden in prophecy. What if I told you that millions of people believe Jesus Christ is returning in exactly 30 days? September 23rd, two thousand twenty five.
That's the date circulating through prophecy circles. Many people are speculating that September 23rd, 22nd, 24th, and that time period is going to be the day of the rapture. Many people are speculating that no, no, no, that's the start of the tribulation. That's when the Daniel 9:27 covenant is going to be signed.
Some people think they coincide. This covenant will be signed, the rapture will happen. Then I saw a TikTok of a guy saying he was selling his house and all of his cars and he was getting himself ready for the rapture. happening on September 23rd. Why do people think that?
Well, Some prophecy people are saying that Jesus' return is going to line up with the Feast of Trumpets, which is between September 22nd and the 24th. And they go back to, they go to Matthew 24, where it says the Lord's return will be accompanied by the sound of a trumpet, and they tied that into the Feast of Trumpets. Another reason why people are saying the rapture is gonna happen September 23rd. is because they're having dreams and visions. All of these YouTubers, social media people are saying they had dreams, they had visions, they had confirmation.
that Christ was returning. The rapture was happening. September 20 2025. Welcome back to the extended version of Understanding the Times. I'm Ken Michael, along with my co-host, Pastor Josh Schwartz, and we're so glad to have with us again Lee Brainerd from Soothkeep Ministries.
So, Lee. This time of year, every year that I've been involved in ministry, we hear that the feast of trumpets is related to the rapture of the church. Can you explain to our audience, is that true? And if so, why? And if not, why not?
Well, it's been a common belief amongst prophecy lovers for For the last century, that that the rapture could happen on one of the fall feasts. And the one that's most commonly landed on is the Feast of Trumpets because it bears some analogy with the rapture trumpet. Myself, I'm very skeptical that the rapture has anything to do with the Jewish feast. The reason for that is. That the spring feasts were not fulfilled in the Gentile church, they were fulfilled in.
the Jewish remnant. The first Gentiles weren't added until three or four years later. Um Amongst the Samaritans. And so When we start with this understanding, then we understand we're not obligated to look for a fall feast fulfillment for the rapture of the church.
Now another point that needs to be considered is when the head of the church ascended with his rapture to heaven. That was 40 days after the Feast of First Fruits and 10 days prior to Pentecost.
So he did not go up on a Jewish feast day. He didn't go up on any day that's significant, even in. The man made Jewish holidays and fasts and feasts. I think if the head went up off of the Jewish calendar, then the body is going to go up off the Jewish calendar.
So I think the rapture of the church has absolutely nothing to do with signs in the heavens and absolutely nothing to do with the Jewish calendar. We can be raptured on any day. And if we happened to get raptured on a day like the Ninth of Auv, It wouldn't be because it was a Jewish day of significance. It would just be because that was the day the rapture happened. And personally, I don't think it's going to happen on any Jewish Day.
Amen.
And I think it's important to note, Lee, that the the days that you start setting, then those become irrelevant because they are days that are being set and no man knows the day or the hour, right? Is just logically and rationally thinking through that? What's funny to me is that people can read in the Bible says no man knows the day nor the hour, which not only implies that we don't know right now the day nor the hour, it implies that no man can learn or ascertain the day or the hour. And so They think that there's a secret code in the Bible somewhere that if you do enough study, enough research, you put enough man hours into it, somebody's going to come up with the secret rapture code that actually gives us the date of the rapture. It's just not going to happen.
is absolutely not going to happen. I think the Lord sits up in heaven not knowing whether to laugh or cry or shout. when he looks at the nonsense that we come up with for the rapture dating. Yeah, and we're seeing all of these videos, and people like Pastor Josh said earlier, that are putting out YouTube videos. This is what it has to be because then they count the days and they try and correlate it with the rapture.
And I think you're absolutely right, Lee. We don't know the day or the hour of the rapture, and it certainly doesn't correlate with the beginning of the tribulation.
So. In your opinion, is this doing a lot of damage to those teachers that are trying to get the truth out? In other words, do we get looped in with these people? And I know we certainly don't, but how does that affect those that are out there telling the actual truth?
Well, there's actually a couple of detrimental effects from this. And you just mentioned one of them. is that Every year, when we have these rapture prognostications come out. That reflects negatively on the entire pre-trib camp.
So you've got ten percent of the camp making wild guesstimations or wild calculations on when the rapture is going to happen. And then people get excited, they get anticipatory, and you've you get the debunkers then will take a couple of clips from a couple of radicals Practically guaranteeing the rapture is going to happen on that time. Blame it on everybody. From the more cautious height watchers. To the generic pre-tribbers who will just say, we don't believe in date setting in any way, shape, or form.
And they blame the whole camp for it. and then blackened the whole camp. The other problem that we face, and I've had dozens and dozens of letters over the years come in from people. Who got on this date-setting merry-go-round, and they went around the merry-go-round three, four times, hitting three, four rapture high-watch dates every year. And they get so discouraged.
That they feel like walking away from the preacher of rapture because they had their hearts set on a rapture date. And they get disappointed over and over and over again until they get tired of waiting. We're not supposed to wait in this way. We're supposed to wait for the rapture in a sense where we're just anticipating he's coming someday, relatively soon. And it doesn't matter if he comes two weeks soon, two months soon, two years soon, or if he's still two decades away, he's still relatively soon.
And that's the way that we're supposed to wait. You wait on that ground, you can't get rapture burnout. If you wait on that ground, you're not going to get dizzy on the high watch America round. Yeah, Lee, and a quick follow-up. We're seeing and hearing all of these people saying that the Lord Jesus Christ appeared to them personally.
Is there any scripture to back this up? Because I'm seeing several people coming online actually proclaiming that Christ Himself. told them Not only that, the rapture is going to be soon, but like these actual dates, and a couple of them are between September 22nd and the 24th of 2025.
Well If people say, well, the Lord came to me in a dream or in some kind of a quasi-vision. And they're from a Muslim country or a Hindu country or they're in communist China and the Lord appears to them. and tells them to That he is the way, the truth, and the life, tells him to go find a Bible-believing church, tells them. To go get a Bible. Then I'm all into this.
I think the Lord works in these low-grade, providential ways. miraculously in dreams. But if someone has a dream which is giving new revelation or giving revelation about the authentic or Official interpretation of scripture. They're false prophets. That I mean, that seems harsh.
But that is false prophecy, and they should be marked and avoided as false prophets. Amen.
Because they're leading people astray. They're leading people to sell all their belongings or really store everything up for what's going to come next. And then the date passes, and all of us in this camp that believe in a pre-tribulation rapture get a black eye and we get plugged in together and it just spirals out of control. And then the world starts saying, Well, then if they're wrong here, they're going to be wrong in other things. It's always such a dangerous thing.
And as we've been having this conversation, Lee and Ken, a scripture just keeps coming to mind to just set the tone for how we need to live in these days. And it's Titus chapter 2, verses 11 and following. Just listen to this and be encouraged and equipped with these things. Titus 2:11 says, For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people. training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age.
Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works. Friends, we were saved by the perfect work of Jesus, and in the interim time, in this present age, we are to be living godly lives. We are to be pursuing Christ, not worldly passions, and we are to be waiting, eagerly waiting for our blessed hope that is the rapture of the church. We just wait. We keep our eyes open.
We keep our head up. We keep, like you say all the time, Lee, our hearts engaged, knowing. That all these things are going to come to pass, just not knowing exactly when.
So we must be ready at any moment. Yeah, I love that passage. One of the things that stands out here is it really gives us some context on what it means to be waiting for the Lord.
Some people have this idea that if you're waiting for the Lord, You are you're really fixated and fascinated on potential rapture dates. Or you're fixated and fascinated, that he has to come this year. He has to come this year. And if not this year, maybe next year at the latest. Edith.
Really, to be waiting on the Lord. It is to have your eyes fixed on the fact that he's coming with a massive reward for all the believers. And in the meantime, your hand is to the plow. You're intentionally living a godly life. You're intentionally living a discipleship life.
You are intentionally living a life of service in whatever area and gift God has called you, whether it's evangelism, pastoral work, the gift of helps, the gift of giving, the gift of prayer, the gift serving whatever it is, you are throwing yourself entirely into it. Because We're supposed to occupy until he comes. If you're just sitting on a hilltop, Figuratively or literally, waiting for the rapture to come because this life is so bad and you can't stand it anymore, and you're a Christian rapture-watching couch potato. Then you're in a bad place. Your spiritual state is not good.
The real watchers of the Lord Jesus. Got one eye on the plow, and they're giving it for all they're worth, and their other eye is cocked up looking for the Lord Jesus, but they're always on the plow. Amen.
Amen.
So, yeah, Lee, on that same topic, you know, I'm hearing that, you know. When they hear from the Lord, they always refer to biblical verses such as the book of Joel and the book of Acts, where, see, in the last days, they're going to have dreams and visions.
So it makes perfect sense that they're going to hear from the Lord or directly from the Lord about these things that are going to happen. Can you kind of put that in context and explain what those verses really mean? Yeah, well. Yeah. The the law of real estate.
is location, location, location. and the law of theology is very similar. Context, context, context.
So, when we come to promises like the outpouring of the Spirit in Joel. We saw a very limited application of this. at Pentecost in the Church history in the Jewish remnant. And then there was just enough involvement for a few years for the Jews to realize that Samaritans and the Gentiles were accepted, and for the Samaritans and the Gentiles to realize that they were accepted, and then that sign passed away. that was never intended to be a permanent part of the church.
Now it's going to have a last day's fulfillment. But it's not going to have a last day's fulfillment at the end of the church age. I think this is a mistake that a lot of people of Pentecostal persuasion make. It's going to have its last days' fulfillment in the 70th week. When the Lord is back to working in a powerful, supernatural way with the people and nation of Israel as the focus.
So that it's similar to what we see at the time of Christ with the Jewish remnant, and it's on the same page as we see with Moses and Elijah and the other prophets in the Old Testament. This is context, this is how these things are supposed to be connected. And if you misconnect stuff like this, you open the door for demonic deception. And you make it even worse if you refuse to test the spirits to see if they're according to scripture or not. Yeah, Josh, he makes a great point here.
It's all about context. This is for the time of Jacob's trouble. This relates to the Jewish people. During the tribulation.
Well, guys, this has been a great discussion. Such a fun time just helping people to understand the importance of context, understand the importance of discernment, understand the importance of consistency. Friends, these are things we must have. We must be consistent. We must have discernment.
We must understand that context is key in all things.
So Lee, thank you so much for helping us be discerners in this time. Josh, it was a pleasure to join you and Ken today on understanding the times, and I'm so thankful that the Lord has given us yet another program, another opportunity to be an encouragement to the people of God.
Well, Ken, you are headed across the pond. Can you give us a little bit of update with that? Yeah, by the time this airs, hopefully, people will be able to listen to it. If you're in the Oxford area in the UK, Saturday, August 30th, from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., I'll be at the King Center along with Mondo Gonzalez and Pastor Billy Crohn.
And then on Wednesday, September 3rd, from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., we're going to be at the St. Croix House. We're going to Norway and Frederickstadt, or yeah, I believe that's how you pronounce it, Frederikstad, Norway. And that again is Wednesday, September 3rd, 9 a.m.
to 5 p.m. If you're in that area, please join us. And then we're going to round out the trip Saturday. The 6th of September, we're going to be in it's, I believe it's pronounced Grobolstadt, Germany. And if you can join us there, go to our website and you can see the times and locations.
Again, that's 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., or you can go to Billy Crohn's website, getalifemedia.com. It has all of the addresses on there. You can see the address on our screen here. If you're in any of those areas, please come out and join us.
We're going to have just a wonderful time of fellowship, and we'd love to meet you.
Well, Ken and Lee, it's been a great conversation with you.
So encouraging, so equipping. Remember, friends, discernment, context, and consistency are key. We must live our lives with discernment, consistency, and context, not only in the world around us, but even in the scriptures and theology. We must be consistent. Why?
Because God is a God of order and not a God of chaos in the world around us and also in his word to us.
Now, friends, we have to understand that days are drawing nearer. The end is coming. There is a shelf life for mercy and grace. If you have not placed your faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior, today is the day. I beg you, read the scriptures, understand that Jesus is who he proves himself to be.
He is the savior of the world, and you can receive his salvation by faith in Christ alone. All you must do is call on the name of Jesus and you will be saved. All you must do is say, Lord, I. The best I know how, I believe in Jesus, that he is who he says he is, and that he was sent to rescue me. Friend, if you are trusting in Jesus, I encourage you, look up.
Do not be ashamed. The hour is drawing nearer and nearer. Jesus is going to return. Contact us through our website olivetreeviews.org That's olivetreeviews.org. Call us Central Time at 763-559-555.
4444. That's 763-559-455. 4444. We get our mail when you write to Olivetree Ministries and Jan Markell, Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311. That's box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311.
All gifts are tax-deductible. On our website, you can sign up for our twice-a-month e-newsletter that keeps you updated on current events and ministry activities. as well as a free quarterly print magazine. In dark days of deception, consistency, discernment, and context. must guide every part of our lives.
Don't fall into the traps of distraction or delusion. Look to Jesus and remember that all things are falling into place. Jesus, honor, and glory be unto your name, be unto your name.
