The Bible vividly describes the majesty and magnificence of heaven. That should not only excite you for the future, but impact how you live now. Today, on Turning Point, Dr. David Jeremiah and guest Sheila Walsh share more on this as they discuss his new book, The Promise of Heaven. To conclude this special encore presentation of her interview with Dr.
Jeremiah, Here's Sheila Walsh. You talk about and write about too about what will be absent. from having chaos, curses, even Churches. Why is that such a powerful promise?
Well, because heaven is absolutely authentic. There's nothing phony or any thing like that in heaven. That should be the way it is in our churches, but we all know that isn't true. We have situations in our church. We think, how could he be in church and do that?
Or how could he come to church and be like that? In heaven, that won't be true. In heaven, motives will be absolutely perfect. People will be doing things for the right reason. They won't have any expectations in behalf of themselves.
It will be a world. what we can only imagine and yet a world that is perfectly described in the scripture. Let me ask you a personal question. Do you ever get discouraged when you hear of Believers. Falling, things happening.
It just seems the last year there's been so many stories of people kind of falling away from their faith. How does that impact your pastor's heart?
Well, I'll tell you the truth, whenever it happens to a pastor, I feel diminished. I feel like I've I've lost something. And this past year, Yeah. Who I never thought would ever go down that road, have gone down that road. It breaks my heart.
It makes me more determined than ever. to be on guard every day and make sure that We don't ever take anything for granted. There's an interesting little story. My friend Howard Henrix, who was my teacher in seminary. Once told me this story.
I was taking him somewhere where he was going to speak, and he said, You know, David, I carry this little black book in my pocket. And he said, this book has got the names in it of the guys who Been my students over the years who have fallen into sin and no longer are serving the Lord. And he said, I hate to tell you this, I think I've got a hundred names in here. But he said, one day I was looking through these names to see if I could see anything in common. Here's a warning for all of us.
You know what he said? No. They all were arrogant and proud. Wow. Bible says that pride goes before a fall and an arrogant spirit before destruction.
And I think what a warning that is to all of us today. You get up on your high horse and think you're something, you're just on your way to trouble. Yeah Hopefully. You guys all have a good wife to help you stay humble like I do. Help you keep your focus and all of that.
I'm kidding you when I say that. Your partners are tremendously helpful in all of that. When you see those failures If it breaks your heart, what must it do to the heart of God? who gave his own son for their salvation. One of the things you write about that I just found it was so fresh is the marriage supper of the Lamb.
We've all been to weddings, some good, some not so good. Talk to us about the marriage supper of the Lamb.
Well, the Bible speaks of it as one of the events that's going to take place in heaven. And we know who the bride is, and we know who the bridegroom is. And there will be a celebration in heaven. If you think you've been to great weddings, you haven't been to anything yet. This is going to be something else.
It will just be an incredible celebration of our salvation and our relationship with Jesus. You're right, the main thing in heaven It's not paradise. heaven, the New Jerusalem, as wonderful as those places are. The main thing is our Lord Jesus Christ. Can you share more about what that means?
We only know him because of what he's done for us. And when we stop and realize I mean What would my life be without Jesus Christ? You ask yourself that question. Heaven will be the celebration of our Savior. And he will be, you know, I don't know how this works, how he can be.
available to all of us, so many of us. That's one of the imponderables of heaven. But it's true. The Bible says that. We're going to know Jesus.
even as we are known. And the Bible says something even better. We shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. I mean, what a tremendous thing that's going to be. Yeah.
So what will we look like in heaven? Like how old will we be? Will we get to choose it? 32 was good for me. We'll be able to choose an age.
What book have you been reading, Sheila? You know, that's a big question, and there's a lot of debate about it.
Some people think we'll all be 33 because that's how old Jesus was. when he was on this earth. But that doesn't mean that heaven will be populated with all 33-year-old people, you know. There will be gradations of age. There will be young people and older people.
Obviously there are going to be a lot of infants in heaven. I don't know how long they'll stay infants. I don't know the answers to some of those questions, so it would be best for me not to give you answers I don't have. All I know is that God He has it all controlled. And he knows what he's doing.
And when we get there, We'll figure it out. I've heard some people share concern about if I'm cremated How does that impact my eternity?
Well yeah, you know what? I've had people ask me that question. For as long back as I can remember as a pastor, In the book I've written, I told a story about a a church in Japan. where cremation is almost extinct. expected because of the population there.
And a guy went to visit a friend of his who was the pastor of the church, and the pastor took him to the attic of the church and said, I want you to see our cemetery. When he got to the attic, it was just boxes everywhere of the ashes of people who had been cremated in the church, and they kept them in the attic of the church as their cemetery. And I I've said in the past, and just this has been as honest as I could. It seems to me that cremation is um It's a bit brutal. Mm.
House. where the Lord lived. where the Holy Spirit dwelt. But you know what? I've studied that during the writing of this book, and there is not one single verse in the Bible.
that anybody could appeal to to say, that cremation is wrong.
So if that's a part of your history, a part of what you do. I can't tell you that you're in opposition to the word of God. There isn't any evidence of that. Go forward if we Continue if Jesus doesn't come back right away and our culture continues to grow. It's going to be almost an undiscussed issue because everybody.
will be experiencing that.
So, I would say if this is what you believe you should do, you can't use the Bible to say that it's wrong. There is no positive verse that says, thou shalt cremate. But there's no verses in the Bible that I could ever point to to say it's wrong. And here's the issue. If Almighty God Can speak a word and the world is in place.
I think he can get you back together no matter what you do. Right. I'm thinking of those who have. Lost children before they were born, perhaps through miscarriage or some, even through abortion. And Well those Little ones still be infants in heaven?
I know that's an unfair question, but you're Dr. Jeremiah.
Well, let me just. I think the main thing about it, Sheila, is they will be in heaven. That's the deal. You know, I've had some funerals. The first funeral I ever had as a pastor, I was.
I was an associate pastor in Haddon Heights, New Jersey, and my senior pastor went away and kept me in charge, which was pretty silly because I didn't know what I was doing. While he was gone, one of the couples in our church had a crib death, which was very common back, not so much now, but back then there were. That was quite often. I had to go to their house. I was totally out of my environment.
I didn't know what I was doing. Even to this day, it was the hardest funeral I've ever had. But the Bible teaches that when a child dies before they have the opportunity to understand the gospel, they go to be with Jesus. And there's many evidences of that in the Bible, for the compassion of Christ. the whole plan of the gospel.
But the greatest story about it is the story of David. And what happened with David when he committed that sin with Bathsheba and part of the punishment was the loss of the child. And the Bible says that David mourned for days before the child died. He wouldn't eat, he wouldn't get dressed and come to be with people. And then the child died.
And the Bible says He washed and cleaned up and put in. And they came and said, David, what is this deal? Before the child died, you were mourning, and now the child is dead, and you're. Europe rejoicing. And David made the statement.
He said, a child. shall not come to me. For I shall go to the child. And he knew what he was talking about. He knew.
But that child was with God. And we know that too. That God would never punish those who had no ability to understand the plan. And so We're going to be in heaven, there'll be many, many infants in heaven. What happens to them in terms of their aging?
I don't know the answer to that one. You've kind of touched on this, but I was wondering about The question of: Will I still be me in heaven? Will we still like the same things that we liked? Will we have the same kind of talents that we had?
Well, I hope you. All don't like the same things that you like now because some of you need to change your likes. As much as is possible in the keeping of your personality that is in Compliance with heaven, that's who you will be. You will be who you are. But without sin, without any compromise in your personality, in your.
Your lifestyle, your testimony. There will be no sin in heaven, no sin. No ungodliness, nothing that compromises. In the book of Hebrews, Hebrews talks about the great cloud of witnesses. What does that say about what people in heaven see about what people have?
Of all the misunderstandings that I have run into about heaven, this may be one of the greatest. There is no evidence in the Bible that people in heaven observe the things that happen on earth.
So let me tell you where that comes from. It comes from Hebrews 12, where we are told. There's a great cloud of witnesses. And the Bible says that this great cloud of witnesses encourages the people who. But the cloud of witnesses aren't people who gathered in a stadium like this up in heaven, looking down over the.
edge of heaven watching what's happening on earth. I like to explain it this way. When it comes to witnesses, there are two kinds of witnesses: they're saying witnesses and they're seeing witnesses. A seeing witness is somebody who sees something. A saying witness is somebody who They saw an accident, they go to court and they say, This is what I saw, this is what's going to happen, this is what.
And that's what these witnesses are in Hebrews. These are the people in Hebrews 11. who are the great heroes of the faith. And the writer of Hebrews says, You Christians, Be encouraged. These people in the past, they're witnessing to what God has done in their lives.
They're this great cloud of witnesses that are telling you, keep going, don't quit, be strong in your faith. That's the witnesses, not witnesses in heaven looking down at us.
Now, I I can't say for sure. On the basis of the Bible, that nobody in heaven will see anything that goes on on this earth. But once again, I want to tell you: when you get to heaven, you're going to be so occupied with what goes on in heaven. Earth will be a second thought no matter what's going on down here. Yeah.
Let me touch on something that's a sensitive subject, but it's personal to me. When I was a young girl, my dad, who was a very Fervent follower of Christ, had a major brain injury, and my father died by suicide. What happens to believers? who die by suicide.
Well, that is a question that has been with us for a long time and it's more prevalent now than ever before. As you know from the statistics, And people ask if somebody commits suicide, will they go to heaven? And I have developed a little answer that kind of shocks them. And I said, Yeah, you'll go to heaven, and the first person you're going to meet is Jesus Christ. who gave his life on the cross so that you could have life everlasting.
Don't do it. Don't do it. But Going to heaven has nothing to do with whether or not you take your own life. Going to heaven has everything to do with whether or not you've trusted your life to Jesus Christ. And let's face it, there are many things that happen in our world today that put pressure on people so that they do things they don't want to do, and sometimes it involves that.
Many of us know people like that. We can't imagine that they would ever do that. Why would they do that? But when they get to heaven, that won't be on the entry questions. for going through the gate, God won't say to you, have you committed suicide?
No, he's going to say, have you put your trust in Jesus Christ? and whether you have or not, or whatever you want to say. Amen. Yeah.
It seems as if the world is getting even more confusing in terms of people saying, well, there's all sorts of different ways to God. You talk about the fact, and you write about the fact that Jesus being the only way is actually the most loving thing about. God. Talk to us about that.
Well, if you go to see a doctor and you got cancer and he says, There's one thing I can do for you that will heal you, but would you like to hear about the other things? You would not listen. No. You want the thing that's going to heal you. The Bible says he's our great physician.
I was talking with some of the other people in the room before we started this interview, and I was telling them about a friend of mine who said, We shouldn't be so upset when people say there's only one way to heaven. And he gave the story. He said, When you're born, there's only one way to be born. It has to be The Union. of the sperm and the egg.
There's no other way. There's not five ways to be born physically. I know they're coming up with all the stuff they're doing medically, but it gets right back down to this. You have to have those two elements to be born.
So if God created physical birth that way, why would we be surprised that He would create spiritual birth that way? You need the Holy Spirit and the Word of God, and that's it. And you can't get to heaven any other way. The loving thing about that, Sheila, is you don't have to wonder. If you know this is the way, you can get on the way and get there.
But if you're left with doubts, or if, like people say, there are many ways to heaven, That's like saying, I'm going to go home here pretty soon from New York, and it doesn't matter whether I go east or west. Ultimately, I'll get home, I guess, because the world is round. But the directions have to match the goal. And you can't get to heaven any other way. Jesus has laid it out for us, it's clear.
One man and one man only between God and man. The man Christ Jesus. Yeah.
I've heard someone say talking about that that it's the widest narrow gate in the universe. And that's absolutely right. We're told not to lay up treasure in heaven. When you say you're right about the fact there's two things we can't take with us, what are those?
Well, there's only two commodities that are eternal. One is the souls of men, the other is the Word of God. If you want to invest in heaven, Those are the currencies you've got to work with. You got to work with the souls of men and the Word of God. You know how blessed I am every day to get up, and that's what I do.
That's pretty much all I do. I don't have any other uh hobbies much. I work With the souls of men and women, and with the Word of God. Those are the two eternal things. When we get to heaven, If you've done that and you've won people to Christ, you've invested in the Word of God, you invested in your church, anything you do to invest in that which is eternal goes to heaven and becomes the coinage of heaven.
That's where your riches are. You can't take material things with you, but you can send those two things ahead. And when you get to heaven, you're going to understand even more. Why those two things are the eternal things that God has put his arms around. In the book of Revelation given to John, there's These vivid descriptions of how glorious heaven is going to be.
Why do you think we're given that now? Is that supposed to impact how we live now, understanding? the magnificence of what's ahead. We want to be in the most beautiful place. see the most beautiful things.
We don't want to miss anything majestic that we can see. And when we get to heaven, all of that will be ultimately realized in a way that it's never been realized on this earth. Here's the thing, ultimate satisfaction only comes with Jesus Christ and eternity and heaven. I tell a story in this book about Tom Brady. won all these championships and Came to the end of one of the last ones and wondered, isn't there something more?
Yeah, that's what happens. We always are left with the The realization that we cannot find happiness in the world. and its things, but we will one day. in the glories of heaven. It will be everything we ever hoped for.
When we sit in here together with you or when we watch at home and listen to your wonderful teaching, we keep heaven in mind. How do we, like tomorrow when distractions and things come along, how do we develop a heavenly mindset? You know, here's an interesting thing: if you study the Bible, and I would recommend you do this because it's a tremendous tool. I've had people say to me, because I've done a lot of teaching on prophecy, why don't you teach on things that are pragmatic, things that are pertinent. And I like to say to them, there's not anything more pertinent than the scripture about the future, and here's why.
If you study the context, in almost every context that talks about heaven. or the future. In the context, you will find a practical admonition. Listen to this one. Let not your heart be troubled.
You believe in God, believe also in me. In my father's house, there are many mansions. What is he saying? If you know what the future holds, you don't have to have a troubled heart. Wow.
How much is that good, you know? And All of these scriptures that talk about heaven, I was just so shocked. In fact, I wrote a whole book about this. About how the prophecies have within them these practical. current things that we should know.
The Bible tells us because the day is coming, What does the scripture say? Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as the manner of some is. as far as you see the day approaching. When you see all these admonitions about the future, just look around in the vestibule of the verse and you'll find: how does this apply to me today? and you will find many, many things that you will be able to follow immediately.
Very practical. Yeah.
I wanted to get this quote exact. You write, when you think about Jesus, what do you see? Do you picture a gentle Jesus, meek and mild, a nice, kind, reasonable teacher? Or do you picture the risen and ascended Lord of all things, the sovereign king of all creation? Why is having the right view of Jesus now so important?
Well, first of all, because so many people don't have the right view of him or God. are the father. have a tyrant idea that he's ready to step on us as soon as we start enjoying life. The Bible speaks of God and presents God. as a God who has a loving heart and Jesus Christ the same way.
So if you go through life with the idea that God is just up there trying to spoil your fun, you're losing everything. God isn't trying to who created joy? He did. Who created laughter? He did.
And you know, who created sex? He did. So When we smile, God smiles. And God loves it when his people are full of joy.
Somebody once told me, If God had a refrigerator, your picture's on the cover, you know? I love that. What would you say to somebody who believes in Jesus, but if they're really honest, they're still a little afraid of death? The fear of death is is a part of life. I remember a story about the little boy who was in class one day and then Teachers said, How many of you want to go to heaven when you die?
And everybody in the class raised their hand except this little boy. And the teacher went back there and said to him, Don't you want to go to heaven when you die? He said, Oh, yeah, when I die, I thought you were getting up a load for tonight. Mm-hmm. And that's the way a lot of people feel about death.
But if you're a Christian and you know the Word of God and you believe the Word of God, You have a healthy fear of death. I don't know anybody. I don't want to die. I'm not anxious to die. I want to live as long as I can.
I mean, I've had a couple of tough years physically, but not one of them have I ever thought, well, let's just give it up. I'm done with this. No, every day, I get up with the joy of life in my spirit. and the desire to keep living in my heart.
So I don't fear death. I mean, I'm, you know, I faced death before with cancer years ago. And I think it's right for us to say, as Christians, we're not afraid of death, but we don't want to die. God has put within us the hope of life, and we want to live long and enjoy the things that God has given us, our families, the things that we've given our heart to. We should enjoy every day of life, but know that God has a plan for what happens next.
And when we graduate, We'll be so excited. But in the meantime, We have a healthy fear of what it's like. I'm thinking of somebody who's sitting at home flipping through channels. And they stopped on this, maybe because they liked the view of New York, but they heard you talking about heaven. But here's their question.
Have I gone too far? And have I waited too long? There's nobody that I know of who has sinned away the day of grace. As far as I can determine, the only sin that you can commit that will keep you from heaven is the sin of unbelief. If you come to the conclusion that you're not going to believe in Jesus, You have committed the sin that will keep you out of heaven because you can't go to heaven unless you believe in Jesus.
But I've heard people say I've I've sinned so much, God can't save me. Are you kidding? God can save anybody who will come and ask for forgiveness.
So no matter how far you think you are away from God, no matter what you've done that makes you think it's Unforgivable? It's not. God will forgive you if you'll ask Him to forgive you and He will save you and change you and take you to heaven to be with Him forever. And it's my prayer. on this last program on heaven.
that you are ready to go there when you die. That you have prepared during this time to make sure heaven is your final home. Don't forget. Trust Jesus Christ alone. He's the only way.
He said it himself. He's the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through Him. Your prayer to receive him needs to be just simple. Lord, forgive me of my sin. I want to go to heaven when I die.
I want to receive Jesus Christ as my Savior. I do so today with all my heart. He will come into your life and change you from the inside out. You will never be the same. And one day I'll see you in heaven.
because you've made your reservation ahead of time. Thanks for letting me teach you about heaven during the month of October. We have enjoyed so much reflecting on the Bible's truth concerning our future home. Today's message from Dr. Jeremiah came to you from the Appell Room at Jazz at Lincoln Center in New York City.
Turning Point is also on radio and TV this weekend. To learn where to find it, visit our website davidjeremiah.org/slash radio. That's davidjeremiah.org slash radio or call 800-947-1993. Ask for your copy of David's new book, The Promise of Heaven: 31 Reasons to Get Excited About Your Eternal Home. It's yours for a gift of any amount.
You can also purchase the Jeremiah Study Bible in the English Standard, New International and New King James Versions. complete with notes and articles from Dr. Jeremiah's decades of study. We welcome your notes of encouragement, so please write us at Turning Point, P.O. Box 3838, San Diego, California, 92163.
This is David Michael Jeremiah. Join us Monday as we begin the series, Ordinary People: Extraordinary Faith on Turning Point.
