Pastors And Politics pt.2

What a show! A pastor who preached an entire sermon against abortion and for life using the Scripture. He's our guest all hour long. Lots of callers, some agreed, some disagreed, but many people spoke. We'd love to hear from you. Text us, reach out to us, we'll do more shows on this. But is abortion a political issue, or is it, as our pastor advocates, you'll hear the whole thing right here from Scripture, a moral biblical issue?

And what does this have to do with our culture today? Thanks for listening. Here comes the whole podcast right here, Truth Talk Live.

God bless you, and by the way, thank you for your prayers for this program, for sharing this with whoever you'd like to bless with this program today. This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Truth Talk Live. All right, let's talk. The truth is, I can't hide it, I can't hold it anymore. A daily program powered by the Truth Network.

This is kind of a great thing, and I'll tell you why. Where pop culture, current events, and theology all come together. Speak your mind. And now, here's today's Truth Talk Live host.

Oh, it was hot in here. The temperature was rising when we asked the simple question, if it's 1865 and slavery is on the ballot in your state, and you get to go vote on Tuesday, but it's Sunday morning, preacher gets up to preach, does he speak to that issue? Because someone might say, well, he's being political from the pulpit. We don't talk about politics.

Someone might be woke. What if there's a slave owner in your congregation who happens to be one of your biggest donors? And you got the Democrats pushing slavery, you got the Republicans pushing freedom, which is true.

Just go look at that, and I know that parties have flipped and things have changed, but that's what history was back then. And you got a political divide in country, and you do have a literal civil war, and what does a pastor do? And what if he's a woke pastor? I'm not going to talk about politics from the pulpit. I'm not going to bring up slavery.

I'm not going to speak out against the evil of owning a human being, for Pete's sake, and treating them like an animal, which is barbaric and awful. But should the pastor step up? And you called in, friends.

You called in. That show's podcast right now. Go to our Truth Talk Live podcast page. Find it.

Just type in Truth Talk, Stu Epperson, you'll find it, and listen to that show. I mean, people weighed in. You were pretty upset. I was pleasantly encouraged that everyone called in and said, yes, the pastor should speak about against slavery, because it's a political issue. So what have I done?

What does this host do? Let me tell you what I do. I want to go get the other side. I have a pastor on the line right now who preaches politics from the pulpit. He is on the air, and he just did a whole political sermon, and we're going to call him out right now on national radio on Truth Talk Live. I'm Stu Epperson, and you're going to call in, and you tell me he's wrong, or you tell him he's wrong. He said, I'll come on your show, and he stands behind politicking from the pulpit.

So should pastors preach politics from the pulpit? And then I'm going to ask a second question, because this is going to get real weird, and I just did a video. I haven't posted it on my story yet on Instagram, but I'm about to, okay? And it'll hit my Facebook, and then everyone will be mad at me. But I'm kind of getting used to that. Management may come in. Nick, management may come in and pull the plug on this show, like before we even get into the second segment, okay?

That's what happens here. And you may be listening in Toledo on 106.5 FM. You may be listening in Greenville, South Carolina, the upstate 96.9 FM. You may be tuned in in Roanoke, Virginia on the new 101.5 FM, and this may be the last time you hear my voice, because management may come in here pull the plug, but the question is, is abortion a political issue? The killing of the unborn, is that a political issue? Should a pastor ever speak about that from the pulpit? This pastor says yes.

Whoo! Pastor Sam Horn. Now, Pastor Sam Horn, welcome to Truth Talk Live, sir.

Are you there? I am. Thank you, Steve, for having me on. Well, it may be our last time together on the air.

Who knows what will happen? Management may come in and pull the plug, but, you know, am I allowed to say your church name on the air, too? Uh, well, I'll say it. I'm pastor of Palmetto Baptist Church in Powdersville, South Carolina, and the reason I am on the air today with you, Stu, is not because I think that abortion is a political issue. I think it's a moral issue.

Oh, wow. And you talk about this from the pulpit? You preached all...now, I did a little research. You preached a whole sermon on the sanctity of life from your pulpit. And I said as I preached that sermon, this is not a Republican issue, this is not a Democratic issue, this is a moral issue.

Okay. And while it has political implications for everybody in our congregation, this is not a political issue. We're not up here talking politics. We're here talking the moral value and the sanctity of human life.

Wow. And as you take that to the Scripture, it doesn't matter how it impacts politics. It matters how you represent the Lord Jesus Christ. It matters how you represent the kingdom of God. It matters how you live as a citizen of both kingdoms.

You are a citizen of heaven living in exile, not because God exiled you, but because the culture around you has exiled you. Okay, well, okay, now we're...okay, we got to let some listeners in on this. Is this pastor politicking from the pulpit, or is he...should a pastor preach on pro-life from the pulpit, or is abortion a political issue? We shouldn't touch that, because what if someone in your congregation is woke and they're like, man, how dare you? You know, I support Planned Parenthood.

What are you doing? Why are you supporting...why are you advocating politics from the pulpit? This is...let's just keep it on the Bible. Let's keep it on God.

86634 truth, 866348, 7884. Pastor Sam Horn has spoken. Now, you've got...we don't have time to get into all those before this break. This is a little quicker segment, Pastor Horn.

But you have...you basically...tell us, you basically went through four or five critical questions, is that right? Yeah, so what I did, and maybe this will be a quick way to set it up for everybody, but the elders at our church believe that there are three reasons why we should address this from the pulpit, and none of them have to do with politics in the way most of our audience would be thinking. But we felt like we needed to remind ourselves that God values the life of every human being, and He holds that life sacred. The second was, we wanted to look at the indisputable, shocking evidence that the world around us does not value human life, nor does it hold that life sacred, particularly when it's the life of an unborn infant. And then finally, we wanted to understand how the gospel should shape our response to both of those stunning realities. Because through the gospel, God has purpose to restore the value, preserve the sanctity, magnify the beauty, and redeem the lives of image-bearers, and those image-bearers are important. We don't get to choose what we want to do with those image-bearers.

Okay, wow. So you covered this from the pulpit, and by the way, I know of a church in Minnesota, the guy claims to be a solid biblical church, a pro-life group that helps women in a crisis pregnancy who wanted to put their little table out front and just say, hey, we're here, and if you're in a crisis pregnancy, we'd like to counsel you and make you aware. The pastor refused to let them put their stuff up in his church. He said, don't you dare come in here and bring politics into our church. Pastor Horn has just gone on record, public national radio, saying abortion is not a political issue, and that he preached a whole sermon on life and on pro-life.

Is he politicking from the pulpit? What say you, folks? We're going to open the lines up. Folks are already calling in, but there's a line open for you at 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. We're going to drill deeper on this issue. I'm going to play a Truth on the Streets for you.

One more quick break here, and after that, we'll be back. This is the Truth Network. You're a pastor. It's the 1800s, and slavery is on the ballot, and it's a political season. From the pulpit, do you speak against slavery as a pastor, or do you don't touch that because it's a political issue? What do you do as a pastor of a Christian church? You speak against slavery and stand for what is right and stand for what the Bible tells you. What if all the woke pastors out there say, hey, don't talk about politics, you might offend someone in the denomination that's pro-slavery.

Well, they're woke when I'm awake, and since I'm awakened, pastor, I'm going to stand for truth and let that overshadow darkness. Okay, you heard that pastor speak, an Orlando pastor. I was at a pastor's event earlier this week, and I put the mic in his face, didn't give him any prep time.

I've kind of done that to pastor Sam Horne, Palmetto Baptist Church in the upstate of South Carolina, just around Greenville, South Carolina. By the way, he's a listener. A lot of folks are listening now to 96.9 FM. Now, what would precipitate today's show?

Let me just tell you, I'm Stu Everson, if you just joined us. We did this show earlier this week, set a firestorm off of calls and comments and listeners. The podcast is going nuts. Go listen to it.

Just Google or look up in your podcast channel, subscribe to the Truth Network podcast, Truth Talk, Stu Everson, it's all there. And what precipitated is at the end of the show on Tuesday, recently, when we did this show about slavery and about, you know, if you're a pastor, would you speak out against it or just let people keep trading humans and treating them like animals and dressing them down and being brutal and abusive and all that? Or would a pastor speak up? Would someone be like Wilberforce or like other American pastors who spoke against it and thank God they outlawed it and thank God for the vote in 1865 to make it illegal to own humans in our country? At the end of the show, Jamal called in.

What does he say? He says, hey, Stu, you're talking about 1865. How about 2023 when people, when we still kill our young, in the name of abortion? Were our pastors speaking out and preaching against that? And so he made, he brought this this modern day parallel, which interestingly enough, Pastor Horn, the Democrat party pushed abortion in the last election and they won.

They turned out record numbers of people. The pro-life candidate lost, and President Biden won, the most pro-death candidate maybe we've ever had, and to allow the killing to continue. And it turned voters out, because the left isn't afraid to preach about killing our young, but people that believe in life like yourself, pastors have been quiet, and they say, well, that's preaching about politics, and I don't want to talk about politics. But Pastor Sam Horn, Palomino Baptist Church, you preached a whole sermon on the sanctity of life, sir.

Is that correct? And you don't back down from it, even though someone might say, quit playing politics from the pulpit. Yeah, I would say this, Stu, that this is not, again, I'm going to just come back on the record and say I don't see this as a political issue.

I see this as a moral issue that has political ramifications. Okay. And so I had to come, and I think every person has to come in their conscience to five massive questions. Let me just give you two of them really quickly, and then you can connect to them and the listeners can ask.

Yeah, because we've got a bunch of callers on the line, so go quick. Yeah, with regard to my own life, does God give me the ultimate right to choose what to do with my body? And the Scriptures are really clear. First Corinthians chapter 6, verses 19 through 20 remind us that our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit within us, whom we have from God. You are not your own. You were bought with a price, so glorify God in your body. That's right in the text.

Okay. We have been called to use our bodies to pursue paths and light that fulfill us for which God has equipped and designed us, and that please and honor him. Romans 12, 1 and 2. We are to present our bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is our spiritual worship. We're not to use our bodies in ways that whatever political party encourages us to.

We're really to bring our body to the Lord and say, Lord, how do you want to use this body? It's not mine. It's yours. You created it. You bought it.

You purchased it. You're redeeming it, and you have a purpose for it. We were created in the image of God, and therefore life, our life and the life of every other human, must be held sacred. And this is what Genesis 9 talks about. Your lifeblood, for your lifeblood, I will require a reckoning. From every animal I will require it, and from every man.

Okay, so keep going, keep going, and then I gotta ask you, I gotta jump in. Yeah, whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image. And so with regard to my life, do I have the right to do whatever I want to do with my body? The answer biblically to that is no. What about the life of another? Does God give me the right to intentionally harm the life or well-being of another person? Particularly by taking away their life.

And we have Exodus 20-13, Deuteronomy 5-7, Matthew 9-18, that talks about and prohibits really clearly unsanctioned, premeditated killing. Okay, and we want to publish your whole sermon, make it available to people if you're amenable to that, but we got to talk to Danielle. She's calling us just outside of Raleigh. Danielle, you're on Truth Talk Live with Stu. Our pastor says abortion is not a political issue, and he's laying out the Scripture. I mean, how do you argue with that, Danielle? What say you? Well, when I was a young Christian, Trump was in office.

Well, he was running. And I was... Hey, Danielle? Hey, we're gonna come back to Danielle. Call us back, Danielle, got a bad connection.

But she did mention Trump, so that may make it even hotter in here. Chip is in Ohio, 86634 Truth. Danielle, call us right back, get you re-established your connection. Chip, you're on Truth Talk Live, go. I wholeheartedly agree with the pastor. I really think that any issue that is described as political is actually a right and wrong issue, can be broke down to a moral issue, and nothing should be forbidden from pastors.

Okay, well let me just say this. Let me just say on the record, Chip and Sam, Pastor Sam Horn, if Pastor Sam Horn got up in his pulpit and said, slavery is sin, owning a human being and treating them like an animal is sin, what if 10 members stood up, walked out, maybe they were big donors to the church, Sam Horn, what if they walked out of that church building in 1865 and said, Chip, Pastor Sam Horn, I'm leaving this church and never coming back, because I'm pro-slavery, and I'm voting for slavery in the election on Tuesday, how dare you politicize your pulpit? What would you say to him, Sam Horn? And I would say, in the kindest way possible, if that breaks my heart, I'm so sorry to see you leave this church where you've been loved, and you've been shepherded, and you've been cared for, and week after week you've heard the careful preaching of God's Word. But at the end of the day, I have to please somebody other than you. I have to please the Lord, who is the head of the church. I'm not the head of the church, I'm just the under-shepherd. Okay. And so while I believe that you're leaving, it breaks my heart that you're walking out the door, I think it breaks the Lord's heart even more. Okay, Chip.

Because you're walking away from the authority of Scripture. And that's really the key, right? Yeah, but Chip, the building's got to be built. I mean, you've got to bring the offering in to pay for the land and to keep the church going. What say you, Chip? Do you agree with the pastor? All the money belongs to the Lord, and he's going to provide one way or another. Okay. The revolution, the Civil War, all were preached from the pulpit.

It's only in recent decades that we've managed to create this artificial separation of church and state. Okay, wow. Okay, we've got to go to a break. We've got Bucksman from Ohio, Jimmy, Clay, and Kim calling in on 866-344-TRUTH. More of your calls coming up. This is the Truth Network.

Truth Talk Live is abortion a political issue. Pastor gets up and preaches a sanctity of life sermon like our guest. Brave enough to come on the show, thank you, Sam Horn, for coming on. The callers are lined up to talk to you.

The toll-free number is 866-344-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. Thank God for Nick, our wonderful producer. We're going to have to call him St. Nick, Sam, because he's taking calls quicker than they can come on the air. Danielle re-established her connection, and so she's on. Danielle, you're on. You mentioned something about you were younger in the faith and something about Trump.

Go ahead, I think we got a better connection now. I was asking the Lord who to vote for between Trump and Hillary, because I thought it was a great idea for a woman to be president. But I said, I want what you want, Lord. And I went to church that Sunday, next Sunday, and the pastor of my church spoke about the run between Hillary and Trump. And he reminded me that Hillary was for late-term abortion.

And I remember her husband in 1994 passing the Partial Birth Abortion Act. And I knew then that as a Christian woman, I could not vote for anyone that was for abortion. So if he had never said that in the pulpit, he had never spoke out, I may have made the wrong decision and would have regretted it. Wow, what about that, Sam Horn? Pastor Horn, you didn't hold back in your sermon.

What do you say to Danielle? Well, Danielle, thank the Lord for a good pastor who the Lord gave boldness to. It is an intimidating thing as a pastor, and it is a frightening thing to realize you're going to stand up in the pulpit on Sunday morning and you're going to say something that virtually the entire culture is going to disagree with you on. And if you care about your congregation and you care about unity and the flock, which are huge pieces of what we're told to do as shepherds, that's an intimidating task and no pastor goes in without the help of the Lord to do that. So thank the Lord for a good pastor who was able to say, look, I realized that there's a whole lot more at stake here than my reputation. There's a whole lot more at stake than, you know, money and congregational unity.

This is about life. There's nothing that God holds more sacred than life. And the proof of that is that he sent his son to redeem life. He didn't send his son to elect a political party. He didn't send his son to build a church building. He didn't send his son to fill up the operating plates or to give the pastor a nice salary. He sent his son to redeem life, and there isn't a higher issue that the churches stand for than the sanctity of the life of image bearers.

Yeah. But it's interesting, because when you're at an election, in 1865, the pro-slavery candidate might have been a nice old man, you know, who was like, hey, I'm pro-slavery, but I'm a sweet man, and you know, I'm a good Christian guy and all that, but I'm pro-slavery. And the anti-slavery candidate, he might have been a mean, vulgar guy who was, you know, like Trump, he's a little rough edges, mean, has some moral indiscrepancies in his background, but your pastor said, don't vote for personality, vote for policy. Vote for the candidate that's going to stand up for the unborn. And sadly, the majority of Americans went for the sweet older guy who is, you know, the nice smile and all that, who's pro-death, who's like, you know, allows us to, wants to rampantly allow us to kill our young, and Danielle's pastor didn't shy back.

What about your pastor? 86634 Truth is our toll-free number nationwide. Danielle, thanks for your call.

Let's go to Ohio. Thank you, and I support Sam in whatever he says. Oh, God bless you. All right, wow. Well, look, share this podcast, Danielle, with someone. Bucksman, jump in here, sir. You're on Truth Talk Live.

I got a line open at 86634 Truth. Maybe you think abortion is too hot of a political potato to handle in the pulpit. Keep it, hey, keep it out of the pulpit.

Don't talk about abortion from the pulpit. What do you say, Bucksman? You're talking to an Ohioan, Stu.

All right. Just in November, just in November, we made national news because our Constitution in the state of Ohio has now allowed the murder of innocent babies inside the most sanctified place, which is a mother's womb. So this is a very hot topic for me, Stu.

I just want to say this right off the bat. Your name, Pastor Horn, has been changed in my heart to Pastor Shofar. You are now Pastor Shofar.

Oh, wow. Your name is Shofar. You just blew the shofar, Pastor. God bless you, sir.

I am fired up. He took a little bit of time. You don't have to call me Shofar. I haven't heard that one before.

Pastor Shofar. Okay, so here's what happened. Here's what happened, guys. So I drove around my hometown and other areas in Ohio.

I didn't see maybe three, and I'm being very liberal. I saw maybe three vote no signs in November in church yards, but the Catholic folks, the Catholic folks, they had several gigantic eight by ten billboards in their front yards saying vote no. Interesting. So I want to say something. There is a pastor in our past. His name is Charles Finney, and Pastor Shofar probably knows who Charles Finney is. Now, he had a quote, guys, that said, and I'm just going to, I'm just going to synopsize it, that basically everything that's happening in our government is because the pulpit wrapped in preaching on it.

All right. The pulpit is responsible. So Pastor Shofar, I tip my hat. I raise my hands to God and thank our heavenly Father for pastors like you, and I want to drop this. I need everybody to go to this website for the unborn. It's called Sanctuary Cities, SanctuaryCitiesForTheUnborn.com, and you and your church, if you all get together, you guys can make it legally impossible to have an abortion in your town. Okay, okay. Wow. SanctuaryCitiesForTheUnborn.com. Thank you, Bucksman, for your call. God bless you. Joseph, Charlotte, North Carolina, listening to us on 105.7 FM. A whole lot there from Bucksman.

He had something on his heart. You know, I'm thinking they're going to call and rebuke this pastor, this guest, for preaching against abortion, for, you know, for what some would say, politicizing, you know, taking a political listing in the pulpit, and yet these listeners, these callers thus far, are encouraging him and supporting him. What say you, Joseph?

866-348-7884, a line open. You're on the air with Pastor Sam Horn, or should I say Pastor Sam Shofar, according to our—blowing the horn in Zion. Joseph, you're on the air. Go ahead. This is my position on it, okay?

Two things. The first thing is, it should be irrelevant what we're talking about from the pulpit as long as it's Holy Ghost-led, okay? No pastor should be saying anything from the pulpit that the Holy Spirit doesn't direct him to say.

That's first and foremost, okay? The second thing is, the only reason why we have these types of conversations is because we see the negative outcomes from congregations being broken apart and all these kinds of things, for whatever reason, but a lot of these things would not be taking place if the Holy Spirit was in complete control of the pulpit, and you would see a positive outcome if pastors were being led to talk about it. Me personally, whenever I go to sit up under someone speaking, I'm always listening to my spirit, and a lot of people don't know how to be led by the spirit. The spirit is not even involved in a lot of people's lives, and what happens is we have these conversations, but we notice that they always go left.

They always go left, and it leads to bickering and fighting, and it leads to division. And I question, I don't mind you believing that we should be able to talk about politics, but you have to also remember, politics is of this world more than it's of the Church. Okay, but Joseph, our guest says politics is, he says abortion is not a political issue. He says it's right or wrong, and if a pastor doesn't preach against it, he's not following the Holy Spirit. He's not following the Word of God.

Is that right, Sam? Warren, I don't want to put words in your mouth. What do you say to Joseph? No, so Joseph, I totally understand where you're coming from, and I think we're talking really along the same lines, and that is, no pastor can get up in the pulpit and speak his own opinions. He has to speak according to the Lord, and every person sitting in that audience has to open up their Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to show them from the Word of God, and once they see from the Word of God, they have to submit to that, right? It's an authority issue, not a political issue. It's a moral issue, not a legislative issue, although there are political and legislative aspects in our culture to be sure, and I think one of the big problems, and one of the reasons we're in this mess, is because the evangelical world at large has taken the pulpit and diminished the role of the Word of God. We typically get up and do the little short sermons where we have three T's that make us a better husband, or four S's that make us a better leader, or three stories, and here's how to have a better marriage, and we never get down and teach people doctrine.

We never teach people the Word of God, lying upon lies, and no wonder when the culture comes at us, we don't know what to do with it, and so we're divided. I'm gonna jump in here, because I want to respond. I want you to respond, but do it after the break, Joseph.

We got to take a quick break. We'll be right back, and we may have one line open, although it just got taken, but if you want to phone in, 866-34-TRUTH. Is abortion a political issue, or should this pastor even speak about it from the pulpit? What say you? Don't touch that dial.

Back after this. This is the Truth Network. You know, you have a pastor on the radio show, and does he step into a hornet's nest?

Does he step on a landmine? It's going crazy in here on Truth Talk Live. I'm Stu Epperson. Hey, by the way, we're not going anywhere, so we're going to be talking about this. We've got a lot going on. It just happens to be an election year. Do you avoid topics that could be perceived as or characterized as political, like the abortion topic? All hour long we've been asking, is this a political issue?

Is it a moral issue? Our guest is a pastor who preached an entire sermon on pro-life. He gave scripture.

You gave those five questions, Sam Horn. You just laid it out there, and the sermon is available. What's your website? Folks can go and listen to your website. What's the website? Folks want to learn more about your church in the upstate? You know, a lot of folks listening on 96.9 FM in Greenville, South Carolina. You're just outside of there.

What's the website? Folks, learn more. We're in Powdersville, and the best place to access this sermon and any other sermons we do is through a great partner, and I'm sure, Stu, you guys all are aware of sermonaudio.com. Yeah, sure, okay.

If you go on sermonaudio.com and look up either Sam Horn, HRN, or Palmetto Baptist Church, this sermon and all other sermons that we do are there, and they're available, so I'd encourage that. You know, Stu, I want to just say this. First of all, thank you for having me on, and thank you for allowing me to explain why it is so important for pastors to speak to this issue, not as a political issue, but as a moral issue, and the reason for that is is that at the heart of this is a big question. We already said, do I have the right to do whatever I want to do with my body? Do I have the right to choose what I'm going to do with my body biblically? No. Culturally, the culture says yes. Biblically, God's answer to that is you're not your own.

You were bought with a price. Okay. Do I have the right to do harm to somebody else's body? And the answer to that is 1 Thessalonians 515, always seek to do good to one another and to everyone, which brings us to the motherlode question, and this one, I think if you want to put this out there to your listeners, and I think it makes sense, and that is this, when does a person become a person? Because our culture talks about what is growing in a mother's womb in language that depersonalizes it. In other words, that infant growing in their mother's womb, in many people's minds, there's a question about when does it actually become a person? And so I want to give five verses really quickly, and maybe you're listening, get a pen, grab a pen, and write these down, because this is at the heart of the issue. Your conscience will not let you rest if you get an abortion until you answer this question. Did I abort a person, or did I abort fetus and tissue that was growing in my womb?

And so here are the five verses. Psalm 139 13 says this, God fashioned and formed us in the womb. You formed me in my inward parts. You knit me together in my mother's womb.

We were created by God. Psalm 22 9 through 11 tells us that we were intimately known by God in the womb. David said, you are He who took me from the womb. You made me trust you at my mother's breast.

On you I was cast from my birth, and from my mother's womb you have been my God. You know, we have a little time crunch here, brother, but you've got the Scriptures behind it. Here, let me let me put you on the hot seat. Candidate A in 1865 is all about owning black people, slavery, barbaric brutal practice. Candidate B, whether he's nice or vulgar or mean or whatever, is all about freeing the slaves and ending this barbaric anti-life practice. It's 1865, you're the preacher, and you preach a sermon against slavery. Do you tell your folks to support the candidate on Tuesday who is against slavery and for freedom? Do you do that, or do you tell your people to go support the candidate who's pro-slavery? Even if you lose members, even if you lose money, what do you do, Pastor Sam?

Give us the answer, and then we got Joseph with a follow-up. Yeah, I don't go at it quite that way, Stu. I don't really care who the candidates are, I do personally, but morally, I'm going to go at it. You need to, whatever vote you cast, needs to be a vote that is aligned with the moral commandments of Scripture. And if the moral commandments of Scripture speak to the freedom and the respect of human life, that's where your vote needs to be cast. Okay, yeah. People aren't—by the way, I don't think you have to tell people how to vote.

They're not dumb, especially God's people, but you're saying stick to the Word. Let's see what Joseph says. He's been holding on. We got just a little bit of time. Joseph, try to go quick. What about that, Joseph? Go ahead.

Yeah, I completely agree that pastors should be able to preach whatever the Holy Spirit tells them to, regardless of the consequences. Okay. That's what I think. But my problem was with the question itself. The question itself implies that there's a negative side to this, and my position is this.

If the Holy Spirit is telling you to do it, get out there and preach what the Holy Spirit is telling you to do. There could be consequences. Yeah, that's right. Well, that's the thing, but see, Joseph, here's the problem. You got a bunch of woke pastors out there who are like the pastor in Minneapolis who said, don't bring that pro-lives, don't bring that—you women can't put in that counseling, you know, pro-life counseling booth in my church.

Don't you bring that in here. That's politics. And they're like, we're just trying to educate people. We're not putting a Republican or Democrat sign in your church.

We're just educating people about life. On Sunday, the local pregnancy support center was at my church. I was tickled to death that Pastor Will led them in my church. I'm like, awesome, God bless you. My dad, who ran for Congress in our city, lost the election the day of his speech in his campaign headquarters, Joseph, 30 years ago, 40 years ago almost, he said, we are now opening this office as a pro-life, a pregnancy care center for these dear moms who are in a crisis pregnancy to help them and give them love and counseling and diapers to keep their babies.

And I thought, wow. But churches are scared, and there aren't a lot of pastors like Sam, but God bless you, Joseph, for your call, and God bless you, Pastor Horn. We're going to take another quick call. Clay, you got just a quick word here, sir.

Jump in. Brothers Stu and Pastor Sam, I'm actually believing Sam is short for Samuel. I just want to commend you on what you're talking about, and I want to give thanks to the Lord for this, because this is so important. Interesting that you're talking about abortion today, and slavery and slavery was Tuesday. About the political thing, is it also going to be about biblical? I heard Pastor Samuel, you know, share about the 1 Corinthians saying, okay, what we're learning in Titus is being able to be obedient to the situation. If you're not obedient, you're disobedient. Oh wow, yeah, the whole thing in Titus, yeah, are you gonna obey or not? Clay, good word, thank you for that call, man. God bless you. Let's go to Jamal.

I got one line open, we're almost out of time, 866-348-7884. You know, Pastor Sam, before Jamal comes in here, there's a whole host of issues that we've politicized. Well, marriage, you know, I mean, a man married a man is not a marriage, and if you get up and preach the truth about what the Bible says about sexuality and gender, Sam Horn, in that issue, they might say, oh, you're politicizing that issue. There's a whole host of things, Pastor Sam, that you've got to either line up with the Word of God or not.

I mean, what do you do about all that stuff, sir? I have done it, and I will continue to do it with grace and kindness and under the authority of the Word. You have to speak to the biblical definition of marriage, you have to speak to the biblical definition of gender, you have to speak to the biblical concept of sexual identity and sexual morals and what morality is, and you don't care about the politics of it in church. I mean, you do care as an individual citizen, and you have responsibilities to that, but the church is called to represent a different kingdom, and I think that's a big problem, is that we think that the church is supposed to shape politics. We're not. We represent a different kingdom. We represent a different ethic, and we live under a different authority, and we're to reach into the kingdoms of this world with that ethic and with that authority and with that moral.

And so that's why, when I go to talk about these things, I'm not thinking about politics. I'm thinking about what does God say about marriage? What does God say about gender? What does he say about sexual identity? What does he say about abortion? And then what does he say to fallen human beings who've been affected by that? What does he say to a young lady who had an abortion?

What does he say to a boyfriend who really got himself in a mess and encouraged his girlfriend to get an abortion? Is there hope? Is there grace? They ought to be able to come to church and hear the gospel of grace, speak redemptively to that.

If there is repentance, there is forgiveness. Okay, wow. Okay, lines are loaded, but we got time for one more call, and we got Jamal on the line.

Winston-Salem, North Carolina, listening to 97.7 FM. This might be the same Jamal, Pastor Sam Horn, that set off the firestorm that led to this show, this kind of second show about pastors and politics. Jamal, is this you? I don't know.

If it is, I'll wear that badge proudly. Well, what do you say to Pastor Sam? I mean, you know, he's not shying away from preaching the biblical view of life. He did a whole sermon. Even though people say he's politicized, you know, it's politics, he says no, you know, abortion is not a political issue, and he's preaching the sanctity of life for a whole sermon. What do you say to him, Jamal, as we wrap up Truth Talk Live today? I'll try to be quick, Stu.

Thank you for your call, and God bless you and your guests. So what changed my view on abortion was the gospel. Also a little bit of science. Like you guys said, I knew you before you were formed in a womb that's in the Bible. Also, when two chromosomes come together, there's a spark of light that can be seen on the screen, and now you have a new life in that womb that's according to science.

So the Bible and science, they agree. Also, some of the left, their argument will be, well, you guys won't support it, so we're going to have to go for abortion. Okay, we've got that problem taken care of now. We now have pregnancy centers that will support the mother, that will support the father, that will support that kid. You need some resources, we got donations for you.

You need life training, you need training on finances, we got you. So there's no more argument on abortion. We got to be pro-life now. Okay, Pastor Sam, what's the final word in the final 10 seconds here, sir? Jump in.

Speak for God and represent life. Hmm. Wow.

I love it. Okay, truthnetwork.com. Share this show with everyone. Thanks for all the callers. Thank you, Pastor Horn, for standing on God's Word. Another program powered by the Truth Network.