Pastors And Politics

What an intense hour of Truth Talk Live today. Wow. What a show.

You'll enjoy it, but please, I pray you'll share it with someone and be encouraged. And really, it's time for all of us, the church in America, to do a gut check, a heart check. Are we really committed to what the Word of God says to every area of life? Even, here's that dirty word, even politics. So stay tuned, be encouraged, share it with a friend, and here is this episode of Truth Talk Live. This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Truth Talk Live. All right, let's talk. A daily program powered by the Truth Network.

This is kind of a great thing, and I'll tell you why. Where pop culture, current events, and theology all come together. And now, here's today's Truth Talk Live host. Okay, we're gonna get real today on Truth Talk Live. I'm Stu Everson.

Should pastors speak up on political issues? Don't pick up that phone. Don't dial, and you probably already have our toll-free number 866-348-7884 on speed dial.

Don't call it until I set this up a little bit better. The year is 1865. On the ballot for Tuesday's election are a bunch of candidates. Half the candidates on that ballot are pro-slavery. They are supporting owning Black people in our country, the barbaric practice of owning Black people, selling and trading them like animals. Those are who are on the ballot. The other half of the candidates on the ballot are against slavery.

They want emancipation of the slaves. You're the pastor. It's Sunday.

You step in the pulpit. Do you say anything about that? Everyone's talking about it. Everyone's talking about, is this Republican president, Abraham Lincoln, gonna finally grow a backbone and set the slaves free? Do we vote for him? Do we talk about him? Do we support him from the pulpit? As a pastor, do you speak out on that?

I want to hear from you. I have talked to pastors today about this. I have gotten in the face of pastors with my Truth on the Streets handy dandy recorder, and I have their words right in here and their permission to play their answer back, but I want to hear from you. I want to hear from your pastors. Politics from the pulpit.

I'm taking it to a whole other level. It's slavery. It's 1865. Should a pastor speak out against slavery from the pulpit? Now, someone might call in today, or someone might have called in whatever version of Truth Talk Live was on the air pre-radio during the Civil War, a lot was going on, and they might say, you know, pastor, slavery is a political issue. And, I mean, I don't like that it's going on, but it's a political issue, and the pulpit is for preaching the gospel and teaching the Word of God. And so I'm not comfortable with you talking about politics from the pulpit.

Is that your case? Maybe a woke pastor in 1865 would say, you know, don't talk about politics from the pulpit. Don't bring that up. Don't come down hard against slavery from the pulpit, because that's going to offend somebody who's there at church to hear the gospel. Even though maybe some people in the congregation own slaves and are imbibing in and practicing the horrific slave trade and the practice of slavery. People are right there in the congregation, but don't speak out against it, because you got to stick to the Word and stick to the gospel and don't offend people in the congregation. Pastors, should a pastor in 1865 have spoken against slavery? I just want to call from someone.

I want your opinion. Not going to put you down. Not going to shame you. You can change your name if you don't want, you know, your name to go on the air. The toll-free number nationwide we pay for the call at Truth Talk Live is 866-348-7884.

866-348-7884. What would you say to a pastor in 1865 who's dealing with this? And you're thinking, how obvious? It's just so obvious!

They're human beings! Well, let me tell you something. Rewind the tape. Let's go back there. This was a hot political. This was a tempestuous issue. This was the hottest subject. This was an issue that so marginalized this country, and yes, pulpits and churches in this country, that blood was shed in a little thing called the Civil War.

You remember that? The North versus the South. This divided families. This divided countrymen. This divided... took people one nation under God into visible.

We were divided. We were killing each other on battlefields. Go to those battlefields.

Go check them out. Go look at the monuments. Look at the blood that was shed. Look at people that died.

Look at moms that buried their children, their sons who never came home. 86634 Truth. You're a pastor. Civil War is brewing. The vote is coming up. All the politicians are politicking.

The signs are out. Vote for me, and I will vote. Vote for me to end slavery.

And this politician over here says, vote for me to continue owning slaves. Does a pastor speak out? Does a pastor maybe say, hey, you should consider voting for the guy that's ending this barbaric treatment of humans? What does a pastor do?

What does a pastor do? Toll free 86634 Truth. I want to hear from you. I want to give shout-outs to Jen and Brenda and Bailey, who made me an amazing latte at a church just like an hour ago, or two hours ago. I was at a luncheon with a bunch of pastors in the Lake Norman area, listening to the new 98.5 FM. A lot of new listeners at that station all across Cornelius. You heard of these towns, Cornelius and Davidson and Mooresville, 98.5 FM. Listening right now, shout-out to Michael, who you'll hear his voice.

He's a leader at the church I was in, and he weighed in on this. But first I've got to go to Greg, who is calling us from Charlotte, 105.7 FM on Truth Talk Live. Greg, you're our first caller of the day. We're going to take you before this break. Let's get him in here. Greg, welcome to the show.

How are you, sir? Hey, thanks for calling in. What say you?

I couldn't hear you. Greg, what are your thoughts on this? Should a pastor speak up in 1865, or is that too political from the pulpit? I think anything coming from the pulpit that someone would talk political shouldn't be up there using the port for that type of stuff. Okay, so you're saying a pastor should not preach against slavery? I didn't say preach. Use the pulpit, as you were saying earlier. You can offend someone else in there. So they come there for the word.

Okay, I agree with that. But my point is, in 1865, half the country was supporting slavery. Half the country was against slavery. Are you saying a pastor of God's Word in the pulpit, shouldn't he speak against the evil of slavery? Yes or no?

Okay, but before slavery, the Bible was already written, so why would we change it at that time? Okay, let's come back. Okay, let's unpack this. Greg has spoken.

Let's see what some other folks think. 866-34-TRUTH. More coming up right now. More coming up right here on Truth Talk Live.

Thanks for your call, Greg. You're a pastor. Should you speak out on that issue as a pastor or not? Because it is a political issue.

Yes or no? What do you do? Yeah, you speak out on it.

It's a political issue. Yeah, but that's all right. You got to do what's right and what's righteous.

All right. Okay, so that was Michael, who works in leadership in a church, who I just talked to a couple hours ago. I got some other pastors. They didn't hold back.

I didn't even tell them what I was asking them. And that's what I'm talking about all hour long. And thank you, Greg, for your call.

By the way, I think Greg and I agree a lot more than we sound. To his defense, you know, when I'm talking about politicking from the pulpit, I'm not talking about a campaign speech. I'm not talking about using the pulpit to push a party and to, you know, get everyone out to vote, you know, in particular, just like it's, you know, the Word of God is to be preached, of course.

This is the church, the pastors that feed the flock. But the question is, when you say don't speak about a political issue, in 1865, the political issue of the day was slavery. And I'm simply asking, I'm simply asking, should a pastor in 1865, like I asked that gentleman there, Michael, who did a great job, who's now listening on 98.5 FM, by the way, in Lake Norman area, brand new Truth Network affiliate, should a pastor speak out from the pulpit and say, slavery is evil. And folks, throw in with a candidate who's trying to end this thing. Or, what if someone objects and says, pastor, that's a political issue.

Slavery is a political issue. We don't talk about that in church. When we come to church, we stay right there in the Word, and we sing the hymns, and we don't talk about those kind of things in the culture. 866-348-7884. What would you say to that pastor? Let's go to Dayton, Ohio. Andrew, you're on Truth Talk Live with Stu. What say you? Hey, I would like to, I'm a pastor of a Baptist church, Hallelujah Side Baptist Church in Dayton, Ohio, and I'd like to answer your question very quickly by using a modern-day issue, and that is abortion.

Oh wow, okay. I preach against abortion, and just recently in Ohio, we had an issue one trying to put a limit on abortion, and I encouraged the people to go out and vote no from the pulpit, to vote no against abortion. So a quick answer is absolutely 100%. The American slavery that took place is absolutely sin, it's unbiblical, and we're called to preach the gospel, but of course preach the truth of God's word and stand strong in a wicked and perverse generation. So my answer is absolutely yes. Wow, so a pastor has called in, a pastor has spoken, so Andrew, let's go back now, let's get real here. It's 1865, you're up in the pulpit, you got the pro-abolitionist on this side, you got the anti-abolitionist, the people that want to keep slavery going over here, and they're saying, hey preachers, stay out of politics, man, that's for out there, don't even bring this up.

You would speak out against slavery, yes or no? Absolutely, because I'm called to preach to an audience of one, and that is God Almighty. And there's a lot of exit doors in a church building, and they're free to go out anyone that they choose if they disagree with the truth of God's word.

And so that's where I would stand on that. Wow, and you know, and here's the heartbreaking thing. There are pastors in this country who have a lot bigger congregations than Andrew, and I'm not saying that presumptively, who would say, how dare you Andrew speak about that from the pulpit? Because you might offend somebody, you know, talking about that stuff. A pastor cannot be a man that concerns himself with filthy lucre, and so that's talking of money. So a lot of times pastors withhold their tongue because they're scared to offend people because they think it's going to affect their offering plate, their building program, and ultimately their salary.

And so I think that really affects a lot of modern-day weak-wristed preachers, if you will. Okay, wow, I'm gonna let that one hang out there. I appreciate your call, Andrew, listening to us in Dayton, Ohio. God bless you, man. God bless you. Andrew's got some courage. He's not fainting in the day of adversity, but what about you?

866-348-7884. What about Andrew telling his people to go out and vote? A pastor telling his people to go out and vote for an initiative? Is he playing politics from the pulpit, or is he doing the right thing? And what about a pastor in 1865? I mean, put yourself in his shoes. Let's go back then. Think about that. The Democrat party was pushing slavery hard.

The Republican party was fighting against it hard. You're a pastor. What do you say? How do you encourage your people? Or do you say, you know, I'm staying out of that. That's politics. I'm running away from that. Should a pastor refrain, abstain, or does he jump in like Pastor Andrew?

He didn't hold any punches. 866-348-7884, we'll go to Richmond, Virginia. Listen to us on AM 590, the new 97.7 FM there. Steve, you're on Truth Talk Live. Yes, can you hear me? Loud and clear.

Okay. This is not a simplistic question, and it's got many facets and sides to it. If you look at Jesus, he did not speak out against slavery. You look at the apostles, they did not speak out against slavery.

Which is shocking, but it's true. But now, they, the Word of God is all about morality, which is based on the Decalogue. I honestly don't see how a true pastor of Christ cannot preach against a sinful practice that has occurred, and that's just like today, we've got all these LGBT and all this other stuff going on that is definitely, totally against the Word of God. So I would say, unequivocally, I would preach against it, and I would not care what anybody thought, because I'm bound by the Word of God and by my conscience to it. That's my reply.

Okay, I like your reply. I mean, you know, what you said earlier, slavery then was a whole lot different than it is now. A lot back then, there was a whole lot of indentured servitude.

A, B, it was very common. The Romans occupied, they took slaves, and they put those slaves to work. I'm not saying it was justifiable, I'm not saying it was barbaric in some cases, but Christ also didn't condemn a lot of things. The argument from silence, you know, he didn't condemn pedophilia, didn't condemn all kinds of things, but under the, but he absolutely condemned, you know, he actually stood with human life, and he condemned any abuse of another human, okay? Love thy neighbor as thyself would cover quite well, I think, sir, as would the Apostle Paul's admonitions, you know, whatsoever.

And the Apostle Paul told Onesimus in that short book called Philemon, he told Philemon to set his slave free, Onesimus, who went back repenting, you know, who ran away. So, but to your point, you still believe a pastor should speak out against the evils of slavery in 1865, and you're saying he should speak and you're saying he should speak out to these other issues today? Absolutely, 100 percent. Okay. All right. You've got to, you've got to go with your heart and what you believe in, and... Well, if the Word of God, if you could call it a political issue, you can call marriage and divorce a political issue, but the bottom line is—thank you, Steve, for your call—the bottom line is, what does the Word of God call it?

And that's kind of where I'm trying to go today. You know, we say political. Do we say that to run away from it? And what does a pastor do? What about these woke pastors say, hey, don't bring up politics from the pulpit, don't talk about abortion. Pastor Andrew, earlier he said he would. What do you think?

Is he going too far? What would you do in 1865? 866-348-7884. More of your calls on Truth Talk Live right after this. Hang on.

This is the Truth Network. It's the 1800s and slavery is on the ballot. It's an election year and you can vote to end it or you can vote to keep it going.

You're up in the pulpit. Do you speak against slavery? Do you talk about that or do you not touch it because it's a political issue?

What do you do? Sounds like there's some other thoughts going on. We have to speak against it. Truth is not for sale.

Okay, what about you, though? What if all the woke pastors say, hey, don't talk about politics from the pulpit, sir. Would you agree with this pastor or would you disagree? The value of a human is a moral issue that politicians may have stolen, but that's our issue. That belongs to the pulpit. That's my responsibility.

In fact, it's an abdication of duty for any minister to not speak to the moral issues of the hour. Okay, and look, hats off to those pastors. I mean, I put them on the spot. I stuck the mic right in their face. I said, look, here's the—I said, get ready for this question. Now it's coming at you. I'm Stu Everson. This is Truth Talk Live.

The temperature in the studio is rising. Nick, our producer, I'm gonna have to call him Saint Nick because he's amazing handling the calls. A lot of traffic control going on here. Air traffic control, because we are on the air and we're taking your calls at toll-free 866-348-7884. You heard the question today in that little truth on the streets that I grabbed a couple pastors.

I got a couple more to play that are pretty intense. So what about this? What do you think?

Some folks have already weighed in. Would you, should a pastor in 1865 speak out against slavery from the pulpit? Or is he playing politics? And the pulpit's no place for that. Maybe William Wilberforce should have kept his mouth shut, who led the freedom of the slaves in Great Britain. Remember that story? A whole movie was made about him.

Maybe there wouldn't be a movie made about him if he said, you know, I'm not going to talk about this. It's going to make some people uncomfortable. You know, let's just continue to sell humans like they're animals, and let's continue this barbaric slave trade and owning human beings and dressing them down and beating them and all the awful abuse that was happening in Britain and then in America. You're a pastor. Slavery's on the ballot.

Election day's in two days. It's Sunday morning. Are you going to speak about it or not? Let's see what Greg says listening to us in Cary, North Carolina on 105.7 FM. Greg, you're on Truth Talk Live.

Hey, how you doing? Slavery is a horrible, horrible institution. It's horrible, and it should be spoke against, but I wanted to try to clarify and put it to another thing as far as, you know, one guy brought up about abortion. Yes. What's going on in Texas where the governor is taking the National Guard and trying to protect the state of Texas where the federal government refuses to do it and says he's going to do it. That is more in depth to what happened with the Civil War. The southern states were trying to succeed from the United States. That's why the Civil War was fought more, and then slavery had a huge part of it. That's true.

It was a huge issue, but that was the main reason. That's where it started in South Carolina. When they fought in Fort Sumter, they were shot.

The first shot was fought. Yeah, right. Yeah, and I want to get into the whole Civil War. I mean, there were a lot of things going on.

There were a lot of economic things, a lot of geopolitical things going on, sure, but at the end of the day, you know, slavery had a huge part of it. Yeah, but in the pulpit, if this inhumane, evil injustice is happening under your nose, and you even have slave owners in your congregation, and it's called a political topic. It's a political issue, slavery is. I mean, people are literally going to the polls. Let me tell you something that's not going to happen in America whenever election day shows up, okay?

There may be some names on there for re-election or for election, you know, the congressman. There may be Biden and Trump on the ballot, but on the ballot is not going to be slavery or in slavery, okay? That's not going to be on the ballot, but it was on the ballot in 1865, Greg. If you're a pastor, do you preach against it, or you say, oh, I'm not touching that one. I'm not going to bring that up.

I'm not a pastor, but I said yes. Yeah, he said, okay, Greg says yes. Okay, but I'm just, I was trying to say, I was trying to say that that was not, the main reason was the succeeding of the states. That's when the Civil War was fought.

There was slavery going on decades, and I got you. Well, yeah, we'll do it. We'll do another show on that history, but I wanted to get you to weigh on this particular one, but thank you for your call, Greg.

I appreciate you. Yes, sir. All right, 866-348-7884.

Now, this does open up a whole lot of things, and there's a whole panoply of topics that we could get into historically and all that, but in specific, it's 1865, and if you're a pastor, or would you want your pastor to speak out against this evil of slavery, or is it a political issue? Don't talk about it. What say you, 866-344-TRUTH? If you want to weigh in and join Greg and a bunch of callers that have called in, even a pastor called in, let's go to Douglas. Let's see what he says. Douglas, you're on Truth Talk Live with Stu. Go ahead.

Hey, Stu, how you doing? Hey, listen, everybody's talking about, you know, the Civil War and the slave times, but slavery didn't just happen in that century. The pastor's been preaching about it with Moses ever since he turned back in. That's right, it was back in the Israelis. The Israelis were enslaved, two million of them.

In fact, there's 40 million people enslaved or in human trafficking today, so I agree with you. But if someone says this, if slavery is going on in America, and it's 1865, and the pastor gets up in the pulpit, and it's like the hottest Sunday before the election, which is Tuesday, does the pastor speak out against it and say, hey folks, vote? What's right? Vote with the Bible.

Vote against this awful atrocity. Or does he just be quiet? Does he stay silent? How's people going to pray for him if they don't know what the problem is? Yeah, okay, all right. You know, when Congress gets together and we pray for the nation, yeah, we got to pray for that too, you know, so that's what's going on at that time, so yeah, okay, pray about it, and that's why the pastor's got to bring it up. I say, yeah, he can talk about it. All right, all right, thank you, Douglas, good to hear from you. 866-34-TRUTH.

If you want to weigh in, 866-348-7884. It's hot, it's a hot potato, it's controversial, or is it really that controversial? But in 1865, this was the heat, this was the topic of the day, and this led to a lot of bloodshed, a lot of turmoil. What if someone said, hey, if this pastor preaches against slavery one more time, I'm leaving this church. What if someone said that?

What if someone threatens you? Pastor, don't bring it up again or I'm leaving. What about that?

866-348-7884. Thomas Collin from South Carolina, brand new Truth Talk Live station, 96.9 FM. Thomas, you're on Truth Talk Live.

Hello, all I can say is John Brown's body is lying in his grave. Okay, and your point? I'm saying that pastors should speak against anything that's immoral or not. You're saying it could cost you something? It could cost you something.

It could cost you everything. If you stand up for what's right, preach the truth. That's how you gotta go. All right, Thomas, thanks for your call.

Thomas has weighed in. With that particular illustration, there were a lot of... I mean, what if you knew that you might be killed if you preached against the atrocity of slavery and it's 1865? I mean, listen, we're 100 years removed.

Hey, here's another one. You just come back tomorrow and roll the tape over and talk about the Holocaust. You're in World War II era Germany, you're a pastor, and you say, you know, I'm not going to preach against killing Jews, gassing Jews. I'm not going to preach against that, because that's a political issue.

There's the party of Hitler, there's the opposition party, and I'm not going to step into that fray. I'm just going to preach the word, we're going to sing the hymns. And I'm going to tell you a little, sing a little louder analogy in just a second, but first I got to go, we got to talk to Doug, another Ohio caller, and there's a line open if you want to weigh in.

Love to hear from you at 866-348-7884. If it's 1865, should pastors speak out against slavery? It's on the ballot, the election's coming, but it's considered a political topic, so should a pastor stay silent or speak out against those atrocities? Doug, what say you, sir? I say yes. It's about God, just like the pastor from Dayton.

It don't matter what is. What would Charles Haddon Spurges have said? What would John Hagee and all them? Yes, you got to speak out no matter where it's political or not, because it's God's word. Where it's abortion, or whatever it is, yes, you have to speak out. That's the problem. People don't want to hear the truth, the total truth. They don't want to hear the sweet cake and icing bit. They don't want to hear what really needs to be spoken.

Okay, wow, throws a shout out to Spurge. I mean, what about that? You know, and what I love what you said, Doug, about the Word of God. I mean, what about what the Word of God says? What if there is a day, and are we in that day now, where the Word of God is crystal clear on an issue, but the pastor is utterly silent?

What do you say to him? And this was reality in 1865. Chuck, you're next up, buddy. We're going to take another. Ohio is on fire today. Another call from Ohio, and another call from you if you want to grab a Truth Talk Live line and join the conversation. More truth on the streets at 866-348-7884.

Should pastors talk about politics, even if it's slavery? From the pulpit. More coming up, Truth Talk Live. Truth Talk Live.

This is the Truth Network. Okay, you're a pastor. It's the 1800s, and slavery is on the ballot, and it's a political season. From the pulpit, do you speak against slavery as a pastor, or do you don't touch that because it's a political issue?

What do you do as a pastor of a Christian church? You speak against slavery, and stand for what is right, and stand for what the Bible tells you. What if all the woke pastors out there say, hey, don't talk about politics.

You might offend someone in the denomination that's pro-slavery. Well, they're woke when I'm awake, and since I'm awakened, pastor, I'm going to stand for truth and let that overshadow darkness. Okay, wow.

And again, I didn't give these guys any prep. I just said, hey, I'm asking you a very controversial question, and that's what we've set it up all hour long. You can make the modern day applications all you want. I think we know kind of where all this is going, and I've got some callers on the line, and I've got to give a shout out to my buddy Alvin, who's listening to Truth Talk Live right now. Good friend, man of God. Thank you, Alvin. I want to give a shout out to Vine-tastic.

Thank you. Wow, Jerry and the team at Le Blue and Mighty Muscadine have made a beverage with no sugar, no calories, no carbs, no artificial sweeteners, loaded with the antioxidants of the muscadine grape, and I've been enjoying the pineapple mango all hour long here in the Truth Talk Live studios. Grateful for this healthy little boost. Like my producers are telling me, I don't need energy.

They're telling me to stay away from anything, but I got to have my Vine-tastic, all kinds of phenolic compounds. Someone spell that for me. But I tell you, I'm grateful for our partners that help keep this radio show going. I'm grateful for our prayer warriors that pray for us every day for this program, for this network, all the brave stations that carry this show.

If you want to grab a phone line, we've got one open at 866-348-7884. Question of the day. If it's 1865 and slavery is on the ballot, and it's the Sunday before the election, does a man of God, a pastor of God's word, does he speak about the issue from the pulpit? Does he condemn slavery? Does he do the right thing and speak against it? Or does he say, you know, that's a political issue. I'm going to stay out of the fray.

866-348-7884 is a toll-free number nationwide. A little bit of time, a whole lot of calls, and a whole lot to cover in this last segment of Truth Talk Live. Let's go to Chuck. Chuck, thanks for hanging on through the break.

You're on Truth Talk Live with Stu. Yeah, they mentioned Charles Spurgeon. One thing I remember, his sermons went out all over the world. And from what I read at that time, the South more or less started dropping him from their pulpits, and they weren't buying his sermons, but he's, I don't remember him preaching specifically on slavery. But one thing that comes to mind is, the New Testament's sufficient for our culture, any culture, and what did Jesus say about slavery and about loving your neighbor as yourself? And another thing is, the Apostle Paul had a lot to say about slaves, slave masters, and even a whole letter about, the letter of Philemon, about a runaway slave. So the New Testament speaks to slavery, and we don't have to be ignorant or come up with our own opinions. Yeah, well, and we know the Bible is very clear about the value of human life. So it's inarguably, absolutely bona fide truth that life is viable, that this is evil. The question is, does a pastor in 1865 get up in his pulpit and speak to it, or do you say, ah, it's a political issue, I'm not going to deal with that, I don't want to touch that, I might offend somebody. I might offend someone in the Republican or the Democrat party.

History tells us that some of them did, and some of them didn't. Yeah, that's right. And so what will we do today? Chuck, thanks for your call. Let's go to Anya, another caller from Greenville, South Carolina, on the new 96.9 FM.

Anya, you're on Truth Talk Live. Yes, I'm very excited that you even have this question, first of all, but I'm looking at the fact of, who is Jesus? Jesus is love, and I agree totally with, we should not be treating a human being inhumane, first of all. But from a biblical standpoint, we need to make sure that we stand up for life. So the pastor in 1865, or the pastor in 2024, needs to be able to stand up for what's right, stand firm on the Word of God, which is truth, and speak the truth. Now, just because the pastor speaks does not mean that the congregation will hear, nor does it mean that they will walk in what has been spoken. They still have a choice, because God gave us a choice, but it's our duty as ministers of the gospel to make sure that we give the hearer the truth, and so that is the Word of God. Well, that's a great word, Anya.

I mean, think about it. What if it's on the ballot for this election that your pastor has to perform a wedding ceremony for a man to marry a man, or a woman to marry a woman, or a man to marry his mom? Legally, he has to perform that or he will go to jail. Should he get up in the pulpit and say, hey friends, hey, there's a political party that's pushing this immoral, unbiblical marriage thing that's a violation of God, and they're putting me in jail, so maybe you should consider practicing your civic duty and voting for, you know, voting this way. You know, so this could get real, very, real, very quick, couldn't it, Anya? Yes, it very well could, and that's why I necessarily do not agree with church and the division or separation of church and state. You know, I know it would be a lot that we would have to conquer from perspectives of church in the sense of, you know, different divisions or denominations, but I think by all means, as a person of God, as a believer, you need to stand up for what's right and speak the word. What does the word have to say about it? Amen, amen. You know, by the way, separation of church and state, the language is not in any of our founding documents, it's not in the Constitution, it's not in the Declaration of Independence, but the whole premise of that is to keep the state out of the church.

The state doesn't tell us what marriage is, the state doesn't tell us, you know, what human life is, when life begins, and the state doesn't tell us that we can go out and own human beings and treat them like animals. So thank God that pastors stood up against slavery, and many lost their lives for it. God bless you, Anya, and thank God for pastors like Andrew, who called in earlier, who stood up for, you know, against evil. Let's go to Alvin, he's been holding on for some time.

Winston-Salem caller, listen to us on 97.7 FM. Go ahead, Alvin, you're on Truth Talk Live. Running out of time, folks, so keep your comments quick and pithy. Like you said, so half the calls wouldn't listen to what you're as well as saying, you say if it was on the election poll. No, yes, we should speak against it, because that's what the Bible said. I mean, you ain't no student quoting what was said. If you speak from the Bible... All right, yeah, speak right from the Word. The Word doesn't lie, you know?

You can't speak from the Word, just like a lady told me one time, I was a little boy. You know blacks and whites shouldn't get married. That's because there's been a Bible that said two animals shouldn't miss a cow and a horse. I said, that's not a... That's not biblical. That's not biblical. Go take it up with Moses.

I mean, come on, see, like stuff like that, you know, because it's tradition or this and that, but you got to go what the Word of God says. And amen. Thank you, Alvin, for calling in. Yes, sir.

Well, good to hear from you. Let's go to, oh my, Fred. It's so many calls. May not get to everyone. We'll try to get to everyone. Go quick.

Fred, you're on Truth Talk Live. Yes, sir. To your question, the answer, yes. And how could it be any more clear than referencing the 1800s or now? Such a clear and very distinct dichotomy.

We have a moral ethical, we have a spiritual duty to both vote and act. There will be that last day when we'll answer for these things. It's a foregone conclusion, sir, and that will end my comments. Okay, yeah, God bless you, Fred. Wow, I mean, Fred, you can hear the conviction in his voice. Jamal, you're our last caller on Truth Talk Live.

Go quick. I think it's easier for people now to say what they would have done way back in the day. Okay, well, if you want to say something now, if you want to say something then, say something now about today's issues. Are you talking about gay marriage? Are you talking about abortion? Are you talking about life?

Are you talking about having the freedom of speech in the pulpit without the government telling you what you can and cannot say? And thank you for having this conversation. Appreciate it. God bless you.

God bless you. I mean, Jamal, he made my final point. The callers of this show are unbelievable.

I mean, think about modern day. Listen to what this truth on the streets, my last one from this pastor's event I was at today. Listen to this guy.

Listen to this. It's the 1800s and slavery is on the ballot. Election day is this Tuesday.

It's the Sunday before. You're in your pulpit. Do you speak out against slavery and do you talk about it? Or do you listen to all the woke pastors in the 1800s and say, oh, don't talk about political issues because someone might be pro-slavery in your congregation. You might offend them. And just stick to the gospel today.

What do you do? We can't be silent. You know that. Come on. I mean, that's the bottom line. That's exactly where we're at in this country right now. It's time to rise above all this silence and shame and stigma and become a voice for such a time as this.

Wow. And that guy kind of looked at me like, how could you even ask this question? And how could the author of Scripture say these words? If thou faint in the day of adversity, Proverbs 24 10, thy strength is small. If thou forbear to deliver them, to save those who are drawn unto death, those who are going to be slain.

If you say, behold, we did not know it. Does not he who ponders the heart consider it? Does not he that keeps the soul, does not he know it?

Shall he not render to every man according to his works? So take up the word of God and speak the word of God to the world of God. And wow, the courage. Thank God for those pastors. It's from the hot pulpits of this country that brought an end to slavery. And shame on those pastors that didn't speak up. But today now we are looking at life. We are killing our young in our country.

How horrific is that? We are allowing marriage to be trampled on in a whole new censorship, and they literally are making speaking the truth, the word of God, a hate crime. So if there ever was a day to not faint in the day of adversity, today is that day. And so my prayers are with you. And my prayers are for your pastor. Be an encouragement to your pastor.

Be under a pastor who feeds you the word of God. Who is not afraid to speak boldly to what's going on in the culture. And I want to give a shout out to Pastor Travis, who joined a city council and stood up against the attacks. And I want to have him on as a guest in his culture and this church rally. And they prayed, but he spoke up and that changed everything in Mobile, Alabama.

He'll be on again soon. Hey, check us out at truthnetwork.com. Learn more and get this podcast and share it with a friend. And join us tomorrow right here on Truth Talk Live. God bless you. Another program powered by the Truth Network.