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February 14, 2019 10:00 am
Our Valentine's Day special! Stu sits down with Ron and Jody Zappia, the husband and wife team behind the book The Marriage Knot, to talk about the inspiring story of their relationship, and the keys to having a happy and strong marriage.
So how is your marriage. You are in for a treat. My friends at Stu Epperson here and with me is a husband-and-wife team that is really these folks are encouraging so many people they've written a book, maybe your marriage is in knots. Maybe they should've written a book called a marriage.maybe they did and there on the air with me right now and they are there on fire for God. This book is is touching a lot of souls encouraging a lot of people and ice want to bring on the line with me right now.
The authors of the marriage not I don't how we got both husband and wife together because these guys are zooming out there a change in the world for Jesus.
Ron and Jodi's Appia hey guys, welcome to the program. The student character to be with you and not so good to be untrue.
Talk weekend and Jodi and I are thrilled to be with you your heart.
In our story and hope we could be an improvement while were excited and Jodi. I mean, you're not only did you write this book with your husband but I'm looking here. Looks like he dedicated this book to you.
It's funny you mention that I did notice while while you guys to talk no I wasn't about to lazy to marriage or organ to talk about communication in marriage at the moment I got all the way to get to this at work to get to this in order to get into this deep.
I love it. Seven choices that keep couples together and it's really neat that first of all, what's it like to write a book as a couple. Ron, you're right.
You wrote a book with your wife. I mean that's kinda like being married already and not ions, also known as counties, but go ahead tell me that yeah you know it was a challenge. I mean honestly just to put it on paper, especially with this topic in the book really centered around our story, which will which will share a little bit here and down, but that really is the foundation of you know we did go up in Christian homes. We go up following Christ and in so you know got it done some unbelievable things in our lives in our hearts. I didn't grow up I want to be a pastor. Think about being a pastor because I wasn't connected at all and I and you got did some amazing things. Next thing you know, pastor of the church in the western suburbs of Chicago.
Here and am so just to write this book. You know we've been doing some conferences on marriage and marriage as part of our story on how we came to Christ, so really to get it down until it was it was a really cool project, but I gotta be honest, Jodi could share it was easy to she does apart at the end of each chapter is called from Jodi's heart and really really gives a good perspective for women are the wives. But not only to the wives, but also to the husband. So I think it's really really been a been a fun experience for us and just like anything else were black women have a perfect marriage were in progress and process like everyone else to just use the things that we've done and learn together over the last 29 years as we been married while she married 29 years Jodi how long have you known this big tall strap and preach in basketball player.
Well, I would add about 10 years that. Well, actually we been married 30 so I would add another 10 years to that noncom given away her age a little bit here but it's been a long time. Let's just say I met him junior high and I borrowed $0.20 from him to make a phone call with it what what was called a payphone at the time wouldn't take it back. I try to pay them back the next day and he was Mr. O know keep it in a the gentleman so I laugh because it's like I didn't hang back with my life was hands-down the most expensive phone call. Twice is a lot of money in those days to run on Dell and I'm sorry I'm sorry that would really want update through high school and diagnosed you with this that we "was Christiansen and so we dated, through high school and college and we sure I know what you and I share the love a basketball and I sorry I had the privilege applicable basketball college and so you know we dated back and forth and it wasn't till after you know I'm gotta school got jobs and Jodi was one connection on the East Coast in Connecticut and I was working in Cleveland which is where I'm from, originally were both from that area and next week we got married and Chicago was our home and so that was the place you go to be together but just like many couples today. You know it was that we didn't time uprightly doing the longest thing will probably a few months before we actually started live in the same apartment in Chicago so it was that I was a little crazy, but time and then now you know this gets into our story a little bit.
I hate to say it but I just don't get right to the go straight for the jugular.
I mean I was doing something that should I wasn't a Christian you don't want following God was going to church a me that you I would just live in the life that I was the college and quite honestly that got me in trouble in a relationship at work with with someone else and you don't I want… Committing fidelity was was the issue and Jodi walked in, she was supposed to be on a business trip and again full disclosure for transplant. You talk about this in the book that some as she walked in on me and someone else in the next when you knew him and we were, you know she was looking for a divorce and we know this marriage was done it was trash that I had gone again and it was this was my best but I couldn't believe how can I do this are in next and you do and she was pursuing a divorce while that is something I just just remarkable to tell us what happened next.
If you just join us were talking to Ron and Jodi Safia and they are being very transparent about their marriage journal journey. Their struggle to know Christ.
They were high school sweethearts and your your hearing kind of the grind. The result is the heart of the story of how God brought them to himself and what we have is this this awesome marriage book the marriage not but things were so. While Ron Jodi is your share with us. Ron things were always going so well.
So so pristine and Norman Rockefeller in your marriage.
There I was now yeah and we had no we never had got and it didn't even last really a year we were. We were just shy of our one year anniversary and next with a series of events seen on.
My sister had said, hey, you can't getting a divorce is a really big deal yet. You need to get some counseling before you make a decision like that and she told me to get Christian counseling and again that wasn't something that we would've. I would normally hurt from my sister but I wasn't even asking questions. I think I was so devastated when I was just I knew I could trust her and I went with it. So I end up walking into a church that I never been to before.
The next morning and got all dressed up.
I didn't go to church. I can wait until it was over because I really was just trying to find out the pastor or whoever would give me this counseling and I really felt like I was going to find out that yes you do have grounds for divorce. You know that's all I knew about divorce. Both of our parents want marriage and family life long marriages till death did them part and felt it wasn't like this was a quick go to but in this case infidelity I had in I can talk to God. Very often, but I it's that that's the one thing that I would not know tolerate or live with and so here it was on my plate and ironically the night before the worst night of our life what we call I had actually I sent something was wrong in our marriage and I again I didn't pray very often at all, but I had actually prayed God it you know if there's something wrong if you'll just tell me what it is I'll do my part and fellow I had prayed that the night before and then this was on my plate and I knew immediately who it was a direct answer to that prayer and that kind of had my ear at the same time I was really sure like okay this is done. This is the one thing I said I wouldn't deal with you and I'll back it had prayed that so there was this crazy thing going on. I'm really right from the get go so wrong on so many couples Jodi and Ron so in the towel. After this kind of situation yesterday. Fear is infidel that is able to do for us. You know, again we were Christians but it's so important for those with eliciting. Maybe you're going through.
Maybe it's not a crisis like were talking about in regards to this kind of issue but maybe there is an issue, something that is out there so many problems and difficulties in marriage right now and people are you know and that's the really thrust that was that's what this book is about and that you know the marriage not interested need to be tightened and sold the choices that you need to make are pivotal and so for Jodi and I am and we don't. Jodi walked into this church, she met this woman and this lady said to her. She said you know I'm all you've got to go.
She recommended another church to go to to receive counseling and she said to Jodi.
This woman sweet lady with tears in her eyes.
She said no, you need to go there with your whole heart and we know now she was quoting Jeremiah 2913 and soul note. Jodi and I want of going to this other church to this workshop where we begin to learn what God's intent. His desire was for marriage the roles and responsibilities of husband and wife.
No, we begin to learn these things together that we had never learned and I know Jodi was yelling in her own heart. She was thinking to herself, no matter what you should do this what's going on and maybe someone's in that place today. And in those words came back and I'll go there with your whole heart not have to heart and you will seek me and find me, you know, when you seek me with your whole heart and soul what one of happening in all you'll cut to the chase.
We both were in the pastor's office together and he did something unique and unusual. He said no you can.
We can talk about how messed up your marriages and only got 45 minutes with talk like that, or I can tell you about the forgiveness that's available. Jesus Christ and again we were Christians would be just a devastating time. We looked at each other and we said, you know. Give us this Jesus thing next week you don't keep got us in a prayer and really helped us. You know you let us to Christ.
No, you know what was gonna happen.
I assume we walked out of that office. You can even guarantee we estimate a little about the marriage is what's gonna happen with the marriage. You guys know you got a new relationship with Christ and that can make all the difference in the world to that person who is hopeless or that person who's in a place where made the spouse is changing for you you desire more or whatever that situation is ending at the center you both got going after what God's best is inferred. Jodi and I that was a decision for Jesus and we just began to live our lives and following him well and he threw the one that put our marriage back together and I you know he did it after he put us back together and so for me I had some repentance and confession delicates that III didn't know any of this stuff and I mean for me it was like I had just, you know, I walked out of the counseling office with the weight was lifted off my back because I needed the forgiveness of sin because of what I was doing and I can remember like it was yesterday. It was that fresh start and so to all the listeners no matter what's been going on in your life and you perish in Jesus offers that fresh start and he can grant you that you begin okay Val I want you to tell us because that new beginning in your life set off a major ministry with your pastorate at High Point church, your conferences, your books, your marriage in this this marriage not book working to get into these seven keys when we come back were give a lot of hope to people a lot of hope to people that are struggling a lot of hope that not just you can apply to your marriage but you can share with so many hurting around you when we come back we'll talk to the authors of the marriage, not and will be back with Ron and Jodi zap you just after this on to talk we can. The podcast will continue hang on what happens when there's infidelity in marriage. What happens when their struggle is constant fighting we break up for the sake of the kids do we stay together for the sake of the kids went out with the kids are out the house like well you know why we were there getting our get granted split up, I just heard of a marriage that the kids all grew up and left in the. The husband-wife got a divorce. Why can marriage be so messy. Hey, how about this not get away with this nonsense of just hold together.
Just try to survive. How about writing does God want to do supernatural things in your marriage right now so you are light to a dark world so that you are really enjoying your marriage enjoying your spouse all these questions and issues are front and center right now want to talk we can on Stu Epperson and I am talking to Ron Jodi zap you, who is done miracles their marriage like I dear E. More every time I talk to them and we did a great segment with them earlier and were back to talk through through the.
The roller coaster of sin and pain and conflict. Infidelity God broke through through some Christian counselors some church rot you just shared you and Jodi when you walked out of that church with a burden lifted, who would know you go be a pastor of a church or youth pastor noted that Pastor James is church there in Chicago and then a pastor of your own church all these years you preach on the radio. Amazing service of the list in the online powerful stuff. You're on stations all over the country and Jodi what Oaxaca Hackett is alkyd God turn this guy around like that.
What happened well. Only God but I will say yelling at meeting tali. I was so sure that I was really going there to get this okay. Boris and I will say this, the pastor, bless his heart. He did not let me off the hook so I had on 100% my part in the marriage breakdown. I will say this, you know, sometimes you're in a situation whether it's a husband or the wife where you know it seems like the burden of responsibility is weighing no one person seems to be the culprit. The one causing the breakdown, but there's always two sides to it and I had to my side and I'm am so thankful because had he not made me confess not only my partner breakdown but just my own and that I had needed to be forgiven out.
One person walked out of that will a new life and a fresh start and run and I would if I would been left there in my hurt and bitterness and you know I it scares me to think rightly. Had I not also had to go through the pain of that work of of repenting of my sin and desiring forgiveness and receiving it that day so I will just put that out there to it. There's never just one person. It we we do. We all contribute even if you feel like I'm only 5% responsible you that on 100% of that I percent yes Iran you can pay accounts or you can pay enough money to it to the right person or the really the wrong person pastor counselor never to tell you know you should get out of this marriage. You know, and were not talking about obscene physical abuse here, you know that's that's a no-brainer mess like a good law enforcement involved in youth for certain rent on what desertion of the Bible is clear and that working this out and have a no back door policy to this thing and you guys saw someone that really you in your you have that commitment and it changed your marriage. God did through his word to the Holy Spirit to that godly counsel and you have in turn written this book the marriage, not with your wife to show that God is a better way is there are all these alternatives. The culture just says hello. Oh God want you to be happy, right and just, you know someone that all your miserly person. Your marriage is like anything else you want to have a want to improve your golf game.
What do you get out of the course. The putting green. You gotta get to the driving range you want to be a good shot for no good cook. You know you can't just need a cookbook. You gotta get in the kitchen and you the hard-working and and start you know start going after them. Just like in marriage. If you want to have a great marriage. A lot of people fooled themselves in the thinking and whether it's a couple up the street and man. They just know they got a great marriage or the couple at your church. You know that managers like they seem like they have a fantastic marriage. I want that she would.
We can get sucked into thinking like that in and the truth is this the got to be really intentional into pointing to your marriage and it's the intentionality of what we learn through our breakdown was that the Bible had a lot to say about marriage and the Bible has a lot to say about relationships and so these seven choices that we wrote about, you know that not analogy certainly didn't come up with that analogy yourself. You know people talk about tying the knot here are not was unraveled, but not unchecked you know after long period of time.
It will begin to loosen.
So these are the biblical choices that Jodi and I began to make and you are not here to say it was immediate and it took a lot of work to restore this marriage of interest had to be rebuilt in forgiveness. You know, I learned forgiveness from from Jodi as she forgave me. But each of these choices are really things we learn that help tighten the knot and and that's how you know God restored us and and that's what were trying to do is help couples and I think uniqueness that of our stories you know we got did some amazing things in you – how did you become pastor, Pastor Nelda church in Alderson. No little by little we begin growing in our faith. People began coming to me. I began helping people next and that it will quit my job went to seminary attributing children to school here in no got on staff of the church in the area learned about begins reaching God's word. We planted the church and you'll next thing you know you know God had done something that was was unbelievable and so were here today for all couples no matter what your struggle is work know. Maybe it's just a marriage enrichment you just to make a few tweaks were to give hope that you know God can change things in his word. You know, if we both commit ourselves to following his word and doing what he wants know we can experience tremendous blessing in our marriage and our marriages can thrive. Yet what is so encouraging to hear this in this message we need to get this out to you. Do marriage conferences and it's just need to see how God is blessed as Dr. Luther, one of my mentors and your friend says about this book the marriage not were talking to the authors of that book husband-and-wife Ron Jodi's Appia Dr. Luther says there is no doubt in my mind of this book will help many marriages.
The reason is simple. It explains and illustrates the foundational issues to bring harmony. Understanding to our marital relationships.
Every marriage has room for growth in this book is destined to accelerate our learning curve so I love it.
There's surveys in this book. Basic surveys re-answer some questions, there's real practical guides and in every every chapter has a little word from a buy has as content from both of you. But if the end of the chapter.
This is from Jodi's heart were Jodi are really sharing. You know your heart and your perspective on, what would Ron is said what's a cat. What are people saying about this thing what what kind of feedback Jodi are you getting from people when they read this book.
Yeah, you know, I cannot find Iraq. I think people get up to somewhere around page 40 or 50 and then at that point, Alcala already start getting little text or phone call from that's from some of the people that I that have access to me or just people go to our church. Of course are starting to reaching out there all reading this and I think when we start to hit on her story and we get into the issue of forgiveness on and I've had a couple people come up and say late. You know, this is just the Sunday a gal that I've been struggling forgetting my brother he was. You know he was unfaithful to my sister and and I'm ashamed to say I told her I told her I would go with her, and she needed to divorce him and and she thing they did stay together but she said she's been harboring unforgiveness toward her brother and she said this is it you know it it it was breaking her helping her to just recognize and be willing to take that step of faith and and forgiving and letting go of something that that's probably the thing I get asked about the most that we do these marriage conferences that another reason or weight at this book came about and fell in the conference as you know we are dealing with questions and will do little panels and things like that and Tom that issue of forgiveness and then the other issue up trust and how do you build trust when when you've let each other down in I went.
When trust is been broken, it doesn't need to be necessarily this way but it might be now there might be an addiction going on with our pornography. There might be just another level of trust, like maybe not being truthful to one another on some issues and it's interesting because I had to learn early on that the trust and forgiveness are two separate things.
Forgiveness was almost more like a faith choice. It felt like I was stepping off the edge of something, but I knew I needed to do it because I had just been forgiven everything and that feeling, having been forgiven everything there is. There was a strong sense but who am I to withhold forgiveness when I've just been forgiven everything and aunts.
I knew I needed to do that. But then I said no I don't need to stay married all right because there's no trust and it was interesting because the pastor I had asked him you know, I know I need to forgive but what about the stress thing and he said what's interesting that the Bible say to trust one another and I didn't know much of the Bible, but I knew that did not know you are right about that and he said, what does it say anything love one another right and he's like yeah you got it felt. What was interesting as I recognize now, there is a reason like that does not tell us trust one another and frankly because were not were not trustworthy, you know, none of us we all are going to fail each other big way.
Small ways so he doesn't call us to trust one another, but he does call us to trust him and then the focus As far as our horizontal relationships are to love one another, and so that just opened up a whole new thing I had to determine you did. I trust God, you know, I was kind of scared of him. At this point and yet as I prayed and I wrestled with that decision.
I think it took me two weeks. I'm embarrassed to say but I I hit did come out now I can trust God and then that just get released. This pressure of you know whatever Ron did like honestly wish if his no repentance. If that what hadn't been repentant, heated, genuinely repentant and there's also fruits of repentance like I saw him changing in ways that I knew he couldn't send mass or or fake. We had dated such a long time.
I really didn't know him well and I saw changes in him that I am next technique I start to get very excited about that idea because I had also believe people don't change. My mother told me that people don't change and I cannot change him at the altar and your ultimate salt or something like that.
So I had belief that that doesn't happen and then I start seeing that hate with God.
Different, something different going on here and so what I'll say is you know. Trust is something that gets built over time in and some things I had to do was just getting up now and then we we had an agreement that when I needed some affirmation from Ron when I was kind of feeling down or questioning him I would ask for that now and then. You know like and he would just reaffirm his commitment to meeting his faithfulness to me. I tried not to be doing that all the time but I would save it for times when I just felt like I needed to hear from him one more time. The other times when I was struggling with memories and fears and all that.
I just learned that God was someone I could trust with all that the garbage that I was still dealing with and I would just offer that up to God on a regular basis and in I can remember at one point thing you know feeling crying as I was coming back out again with with just more hard things in my heart and think that someday I want to get beautiful but right now this is all I have and that sense of knowing that he received that he didn't judge me for that. But that was a spat with the place I could take instead of constantly bringing that stuff up in front enough to Ron and wearing him down. He already he already did feel bad about what happened and so there was that balance of bringing stuff to God and and then also still though, getting that affirmation from Ron and and and and the change in behavior what you we would say trust is something that is built over time. It consistent behavior CB over tea. Over time, so consistent behavior over time is at is how that happened, how long that'll take in your marriage yell. It might it might be different for some than others, but that's that's kind of how that happens but that's that's deftly at the process of forgiveness and trust them together so there are seven chapters chock-full of all this you just got a little dose from Jody who wrote this book with her husband Ron and Jodi zap your guess the book is the marriage not moody publishing.
Ron, I want you to tell everyone how to get this book I will just delineate real quickly seven chapters, which I love it Ron Ron Jody say you write a book is simple, even for a basketball player to understand. I really hope it will. Although you get on the quote what you want, you know where the sorting of the 17 were a stack of buddy, you and me can anyone show the young guns notes about okay I know you to be as soon I got the whole thing set up for you.
We gotta just bring your shoes I want except there was real size 14 was a good book and be available any place that you like, pick up a book on online you can get it obviously can get begun. Moody publishing but it's available on all outlets and also love to go to Ron's and I'm not okay.
I'll okay yeah you in bed that you could get that you get a copy. The book and and she was glad we also offer on Ron.com is also exits the marriage assessment tools. That's what is want to help couples who are going through difficulty just there's others what's called a marriage health assessment so you know, so we could do that right now.
Just go around zap you.com/health assessment and you will give you some understanding where we at where we are in this know in this marriage and is also a communication assessment tool so we just want to really really hope people with things that go with our story as we can really open and candid know I would.
But we always cut a fit like this you know, sometimes your best can become your message will for us. That's really true that the forgiveness of Christ available, but many people are struggling with the affairs in the marriage and got a marriage assessment tool to run zap you.com\affair proof and so you can affair proof your proof marriage assessment and and yet you just things that we want to get people in their hands so that they can tighten the marriage.
Not much we need to keep for us is we want to help couples strengthen the marriage and it takes work. It takes effort. I know Steve you know that it doesn't come easy, but it's the greatest blessing of the world if you got both of you tightening the marriage that you lose hope in your struggle and a lot of folks in that rut. What's the for basic first step for them. Obviously I want everyone to get this book emerged not like get it yesterday just downloaded go to Ron's around zap you.com is a website it however you get books. But what what's like a real basic thing. If a couple is struggling just for them.
Have hope, what would you say is a good start you a great starting to really assess where you're at individually and know I need to come back and you know so many couples frost you know it's hard because you know maybe one couple is designed to grow in the Lord. The other one isn't in the one of the first things we do to just take an honest assessment of where you're at in your relationship with God and we call it the marriage triangle and just think of a triangle in your mind right now and at the top. You have got one corner is you, you know, the husband, the other corner is the wife and just think a triangle that the distance between both of you at the bottom of the triangle is greater. Once you begin to move up the triangle each one distance become smaller issue at the top with God. So it's all about your individual relationship with God. And so that was what you know makes the gap smaller between you and you can really enjoy the blessing that God desires that we can put that triangle upside down and sometimes were guilty of this and we can put God at the basis of our spouse at the top and that's not healthy or you can have your job leading the family kids at the top of the triangle and that's what the Bible calls idolatry and so you any template something else ahead of and were doing that were guilty of committing idolatry and so in the marriage relationship.
It's so important for both couples to have the desire to grow in Christ. But that always begs the question what happens if the person isn't. And that's where you got to really trust and do your part to grow in your relationship with him and trust God to make the changes that can in the other. Okay that's a voice of pastor Ron zap his wife Jody solidus to they wrote a book together called a marriage not a real cool book. Very practical seven chapters chapter 1. Choose to grow spiritually. Chapter 2 choose to love unconditionally. Chapter 3 choose to serve sacrificially chapter 4 choose to.
Please regularly chapter 5 choose to persevere persistently.
Chapter 6 choose to communicate. Respectfully, in chapter 7 choose to bless abundantly and there's just so much inheritors a bunch of small group discussion questions involve there's there's all kinds of very practical for your church for your family is in our east of maybe couples don't know the Lord, which is exactly were these guys were there was a spiritual disaster going on in their in their personal lives or marriage in God brought godly people in their life. Maybe you listener out there are that godly man or woman or teenager or young person that's going to get in someone's life to point them back to Jesus and maybe this will be a great tool to book the marriage.thank you guys so much for blessing us ever taken some time to get them onto the show and ended in to tell your story. Wow, what an encouragement what we think is on the word work will be granted to talk weekend and I know it's amazing things you kingdom moving the needle and I will be really excited for what you doing and how we can partner together and again that you will deny weeks we positively affect our stock bless one person will tell it and so I just want you don't affirm what you're saying and you know all have a story God can use it to be open and honest and transparent to help each other so we can do what we can make choices that are necessary, strengthen marriage, not so that God can be glorified.
That's also praise Lord and in the wrong people can hear your preaching that you preach at high Valley church on your radio show me as a very syndicated dub pastor all over the country. We will gotta get that on the Truth Network to but we weaved to tell one of the name of the program and how people can can hear that as well put folks listen to godly pastors like this man. Okay, listen to the word of God. That's that's really our passion here on truth talking on Anna Truth Network and Oliver awesome the Philly security program like the Wilkins radio network wonderful stations in Jacksonville Florida North Florida 91.391.7, 91.9 the truth down there. Would Ron tell us about group work with a couple can hear you preach, you know, it's a word. The High Point troops with the lessons of Chicago would look you will You ever in their dads really grown the troops reaching thousands of men not broadcast which podcast and radio know it's called High Point ministries and so High Point going to hike with Mrs.com and that's a damn what any teaching for free. We have it all on theirs. You can check it out and you know you cannot be encouraged a number series and I'm there to help you build relationship with Christ. That's awesome thank you and thank you Jody. I tell you what you're married a Basque altar look at maybe better now. I'm just saying out loud, highlighting the handle when he comes home like with that little cut above his or you know, limping a little bit you like. I come home to my wife all the time. I mean you just you just it is it is it all on so sorry or is it okay you got what she deserved for play ball. Still this age that was a deli deli. Be honest with us. What's the reaction I got to know I got to know) honey I can tell if he's been playing basketball is hurt that hurt in and out. The next question is how did you play basketball and then sometimes I catch them plainly work out at the same place that the canopy work is not supposed to be playing you get a couple minutes. This pair will allow you taken a break and then I catch him out there helps the glutton for punishment, but he loves the game and know let's just say I can tell you much. Every time he plays now a raw… Let's just agree on this brother. We can agree on this one thing, there's no better way to get her than on the hardwoods commode until you complete a big piece of Reggiano with low income others look with the school outlook used by lessor. He sleeps like a sure Jesus made it yet a very good ability right next to the "inability to get a lot of people to value that we could bite else look at the little church that is intent upon what you guys are blessing folks get this book the marriage not end and get to know this couple listen to the sermons of Ron on his rent runs every.com the High Point church in Chicago throughout their drop in semen and in let's let's really make this a priority. Let's let's see how God can do great things through marriages. God bless you guys. What a treat to hang out