Breaking Barriers

Hey, this is Jim Graham from the Masculine Journey Podcast, where we explore relationship instead of religion every week. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just a few seconds.

Enjoy it, share it, but most of all, thank you for listening and for choosing the Truth Podcast Network. I'm with a pastor who's not only passionate about that, but he's holding a pastor's conference about that, so we're going to talk about a whole lot of that stuff. But what is God doing? Pastor Andrew Hopper, Mercy Hill Church, Greensboro, North Carolina. You all are part of church plants everywhere, and you're hosting a big conference. Why is it called Breaking Barriers, and what does this have to do with what God's done in your life personally and in the life of your church, Mercy Hill?

Yeah, so we love to talk about sending a ton. We love to talk about church planting. Our church was planted in 2012, and we had the opportunity to grow pretty fast by Western standards, and it's been a huge praise. About three or four years ago, that really started giving way into church planting, and we were able to send churches really all over.

Halifax, Nova Scotia, Roanoke, Virginia, Waynesville, North Carolina, Tampa, Florida. We just planted a church in Norfolk. Our next church plant's actually going to South Asia, so we've been able to send people out, and we're really excited about that.

But I think that we have kind of always held onto this mantra of sending capacity is more important than seeding capacity, but for sending capacity, nothing is more important than seeding capacity. Our church grew. I didn't know if it would take 30 years or ever see it, but we really prayed that we would.

I had a secret prayer. I wanted to see our church grow from 30 to 3,000. I didn't know if that would happen in 30 years or whatever, but it happened in seven from when we planted.

And I would say this, looking back, that is the number one reason we've been able to plant and send in a sustainable way is that we grew. Now, not every church is going to grow to thousands, but the point is that sustainable planting rhythm is only possible if our churches are growing. And unfortunately, man, I feel like some of the conversation that I'm around in some circles, not all, have sort of demonized the thought of thinking about church growth. I mean, really having pastors focused on, I want to see more people next year, I want to see more money come in next year, we want to do all the church growth tactics. For some reason, that can be seen as icky a little bit, non-spiritual, it can be seen as a little bit gross, a little bit too corporate. And we really feel like that's going to be detrimental to the evangelistic movement of churches like ours, and we think it's going to be detrimental long-term for church planting. And so that's sort of what the heart of the conference is, man, let's break the stereotype, let's talk about growth so we can get to going. The church has been through a lot with COVID, with the new digital age, with all kinds of things happening, with transitions, with churches dropping off completely, going left, denying the Bible.

The whole sexual confusion happening out there, and churches leaving denominations and all that, so it really is kind of a wild, wild west now today. But you believe the church is still plan A, and why is this so important to God, and what are some foundational things that you want to communicate to pastors? Like, you have a heart for pastors.

I would think you'd be competitive. Man, that guy's got more people than me, that guy's doing this. But that's the last thing I ever hear. When I talk to Andrew Hopper, I hear a guy that, like, you're helping pastors succeed, you're meeting with pastors and trying to encourage them. When you're at pastors' events speaking yourself, talk about that, how the church is God's plan A, and how you're pulling for pastors, and what you're trying to communicate in this crucial time. Yeah, I mean, it feels like, for us, we really just think about it like all the ships rise if the harbor, you know what I mean?

When the harbor's going up, I mean, when the tide's coming in, all the ships rise. So one, I think, helpful analogy that I got from a guy named Larry Osborne in California is when you start to view Jesus as the senior pastor and all of us are just Sunday school classes, you know, we want to see the whole church grow. And, you know, you stop having all those rivalries and things that we even see Paul talking about. And so, yeah, we have a real heart for pastors. Somebody had that heart for me. I came out of the Summit Church in Raleigh-Durham, and they wanted to equip me and send me, and they wanted my best.

And they do nothing but celebrate when our church grows. And I have that relationship with Pastor JD. I feel like I want to have that relationship with other pastors.

And so, yeah, we really want to see. And so I think practically, you know, what we're hoping to get out of this conference is really twofold. The first thing is, man, we want to try very hard to destigmatize the concept of talking about strategizing around, casting vision for church growth.

We live in an interesting time. It's like, and I've been to so many different conferences, and there's a lot of missional literature and all this kind of stuff where sending is celebrated, you know, one-on-one going out and evangelizing is celebrated. But the concept of more people coming into the church, hearing the gospel from a pastor, that's not, it's not bad unless it's focused on and talked about. And then when you talk about like, hey, we set a goal to have double the amount of people next year than we did this year, all of a sudden people are like, that feels like a business, that feels unspiritual. We think that if you have conflicting beliefs way up high, I mean, way up high in the stratosphere, the highest part of your heart, if you want to say. If you're conflicted about whether you should be going after something or not, you will not go after it with 100 miles an hour.

You won't go full speed. And so what we want to do is try to turn the conversation a little more toward, man, let's see what was happening in the book of Acts. Let's talk about what Paul says in 2 Thessalonians that he was prayerful that the gospel would spread quickly.

I mean, let's talk about what it means to go fast and be excited about that. And whether God does it or not, it's up to him, but it should be what we're focusing on. So it's kind of a belief thing, number one. And then number two, man, we've learned some things. You know, we've seen we've seen so we're growth, we're multi site, five or six campuses. It's it's not hindering are going. It's facilitating and catalyzing are going into the harvest field in terms of missions and church planting. And so we want to share those things.

Man, we want to talk about strategy. You know that a lot of churches are doing things, but they have not put them in a flywheel that really helps compound on one another. We want to talk about how, you know, shine away from the generosity conversation is detrimental to the discipleship of our people. And it will limit how far the ministry goes. We want to talk about the connection between first time guests and baptisms and missionaries.

I'll give you an example, man. We at the 10 year mark at Mercy Hill, we figured out it's a 10 to one in all those areas. OK, so if you're going to see one person go to the mission field, you need to see 10 baptisms.

This is the numbers we had seen at Mercy Hill. One missionary per 10 baptisms, one baptism per 10 first time guests. So the way that the numbers work out is for every 100 first time guests that come through the door and fill out the stuff, we end up down the line with one missionary. And so to me, you know, the thought of man, it's unspiritual to be really focused on counting your first time guest is crazy. It's a lead measure. You know, the lead measure is that first time guest tent. The lag measure is going to the nations, places like South Asia, places like the Middle East. So, you know, so for us, we want our numbers to go up.

You know, we were really thinking about we tell our people, man, we're not going to set a sending goal without setting a baptism goal or without setting a first time guest goal. They all go together. It all hangs together. That's the voice of Pastor Andrew Hopper, senior pastor at Mercy Hill Church.

They got all kinds of canvases. And what's fascinating about talking to him, and I'm so encouraged by this, is you would think a church that's successful is going to be, you know, hyper competitive. And well, you know, our way is the best way.

And, you know, we don't want anyone else to be successful. There's no one that pulls for other churches like these guys do. I love that.

I love that spirit. And they're trying to grow. They're trying to support. They've supported all these church plants. What's your message to pastors out there, churches, Pastor Andrew Hopper, what would you say to them about thinking bigger, thinking globally, like God is on the move, the gospel. There's still people on our planet that have never heard the gospel. What's your challenge and kind of how does that tie in with this whole breaking barriers idea and this Breaking Barriers Pastors Conference coming up? Yeah. So the conference really hits that because the conference is growing churches are going churches. What we want to think about is, you know, listen, churches can grow without going. OK, I've seen that. You've seen it.

But I'm here to say today, and this is just true across the board, and I've seen it in so many networks now. You can grow without going, but you cannot go without growing. You will not go sustainably. You might be able to go once. You might send a missionary every three or four years. But if there's going to be a trickle in a pipeline that gets all the way to the nations, and I think for us, man, we just want to help churches understand. Like, man, you can, you know, you can you can go from where you are, set goals, man, hit them and see that your, you know, your success really is is not just going to be measured in that growth.

It's going to be measured in what flows downhill from that, which is people engage in the unreached. I love it. Pastor Andrew Hopper, I'm Stu Everson. This is Truth Talk, and we are passionate about local churches.

We believe, like you do, that the church is God's plan. And we love to encourage listeners to find a church that teaches about someone out there is floating around. Who knows where they're listening? They could be in Salt Lake City. They could be one of our many hundreds of affiliates that are brave enough to carry this program.

We're grateful for AFR and Wilkins and Salem and all the networks that carry this program. How would you describe a healthy church for someone trying to get plugged in, you know, to a good church? Yeah, I would say there's a few things to look for in a healthy church.

Man, is there plurality in the top level leadership? Are they preaching the gospel? Are they faithful to the Bible? They are unapologetic about that.

Man, do they care about the nations and how do they think about the next generation coming up? If they focus heavily in some of those areas, then you're probably looking at a pretty healthy church. And give us a quick 411 on this Breaking Barriers Conference. It's coming up during Pastors Appreciation Month. So people, send your pastor as a blessing and he'll be refreshed, encouraged. I imagine all kinds of pastors, all kinds of denominations are going to show up at your campus.

Give us the quick who, what, where and when and how people can sign up. Yeah, we are. Man, our church, just because I'm wired this way, man, we're efficient. We want to go fast. And so, man, we're not, we're doing, it's a one day, one night, next morning type of deal. So it's an afternoon, an evening, and a morning. But it's going to be absolutely jam packed.

So it's October 24th and 25th. And the cost is like $99 or something like that. And you can just go sign up at BreakingGrowthBarriers.com. I like that.

BreakingGrowthBarriers.com. You and I will throw a picture up so folks can see the face. I definitely have a face for radio.

You don't, man. Sharp looking senior pastor of Mercy Hill, Pastor Andrew Hopper. If you're working here, be a part of a church that's growing. Because if a church that's growing, it's going to be going.

And it's going to be glowing. The light of Christ everywhere, everywhere that they go. God bless you, man. Thanks for being on and thanks for being, thanks for holding fast the word and being true to, preaching God's word and faithful. And we encourage everyone to check this pastor's conference out. Yeah, thanks, man. Appreciate it.