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November 9, 2019 5:00 pm
This week Stu talks with Jonathan Leeman of 9Marks Ministries about how you can identify a healthy church, and how to choose the right church for you.
This is the Truth Network. So what is a healthy church. What does it look like was the Bible say about that. Were you go to church when is it time to leave the church is or what weight should I stay in maybe. Maybe I can change things.
Maybe I can turn them back to the word will go down and answer those questions, because I have just leave it on with me job and have you answer all of them once Nazi buddy medical is right now.
Yes no yes four and 70 total preachers guest on your ticket you believe he did that disguises is like a walking church is like to be, but he is with the nine marks ministry, which is a wonderful ministry that goes around and you help churches work through this stuff out right in the center right yeah our our our mission statement is equipping church leaders of the biblical vision as well say and partial resources for building healthy churches are goal of healthy churches and we tell pastors say this with the Bible says we do to her books and articles of our blog, our website, our podcast pastors talk conferences stuff like that and really that the epic book that a lot of folks may be familiar with.
This is one of the first books that really claim me with your ministry was this nine marks of a healthy church that book by Mark Deborah who you work with his unit. Your ministry leader. That book is really set some things in motion. That's kind of this whole respond to so ministry's correspondent of those marks can you talk a little bit about the importance that you sure the ministry of Jesus that came out of that box marked wrote this book.
My pastor started writing and calling and saying he will need about this when you do about that because of the ministry for a followed suit. Just in response to so many questions that Mark and others were receiving. They hired me and 2006 to be editorial director be more than just Mark Deborah's voice, but the Microphones in front of a number of pastors and writers stuff propagate these ideas yet what was great about nine marks. The book is a sort of packaged as a Mets and a seeker sensitive book, like a duties knowing things but really they are is just Bible exposition preaching Biblical theology. The gospel conversion membership discipline discipled and so forthright and yeah I think as you as you said brothers you as you testified to many others and I found it very very helpful in getting the church back to what does the Bible say it so that's really fast and you say that this is what incurs me about your ministry is we most churches today and of course this is this is gonna kinda crazy wacky. There's a minefield of controversy and people leaving the Scriptures, but most churches that hold the Bible will tell you they believe the Bible only as this is our book were of Church of the book and actually open it in the actually is part of the homily.
The sermons in this and that Jonathan but when it comes down to the nitty-gritty when it comes down to running the church making disciples. Suddenly, we consult corporate America. We consult psychology thinking Julia tell me that everything that we need for operating God's church.
The only organism that Jesus Christ died and shed his blood for that is his bride. You mean tell me that she gave us a book the Bible about that in that you know is that really true is the Bible sufficient I guess is my question for you. It's a loaded question.
Let's see how you do.
Hopefully i mean does the Bible tell us what time do we meet on Sundays doesn't tell us what the Nazis microphones doesn't tell us whether the Sunday school structure was on some things. None of the Bible and everything but it does give us as as as Paul says anything sufficient for life and salvation right so what is it we need to gather as a people to be a people to be born again to govern ourselves to organize ourselves. Yes, the Bible does give all of that we put it this way, the most important things about your church are the things that are in the Bible and are the things that your church shares with every other church in every other time and place is popular these days to talk about contextualization being culturally sensitive and all that's good all that's important to get the most important thing about your church, your church shares with every other church in time and space in history and those of the things that are found in the Bible. So before we talk. Consult business and consulting. All these other things. Oh, pastor, brother Christian. Please open of the Bible see what it says it might say more than you think was school about your ministry. Nine marks ministries I'm Stu Epperson with me, Jonathan Lehman, he's or leaders. The editorial director nine marks ministries so stuff that leaves your office that goes out the curriculum. The training sessions you do all over the control of the world really know your eager hand and that you marked ever ministry leader admit Mark is been on the show but what's so refreshing about that is really your jostle economies. United States, a class I that way because you're likable. The Crimson written the word of God within your directing people so soliciting others say will look what's healthy church do you break it down on vestal players a dog you know Mike, I met another in a brightest knife in the drawer have the ghost which he braked out to be listening. I will find a healthy church to plug into healthy church, you know what is that for people that you just give us a basic one on one from a guy who's been doing this for some time yet.
What what what creates the church. The Bible, the gospel. So when you walk through the church door on Sunday morning and you're looking around in your ask of the normal questions I got these people look like me other good programs for kids alchemist style of music is a completely unimportant questions, but I do want to say the most important question you need to ask when you walk through the church doors on the Sunday morning is do they preach the Bible to the expose Scripture they preach. I would even say exposition that is the point of the sermons at the point of the biblical text right and the pastor is committed to not giving you his wisdom, his humor, his charisma and give life to the dead, that is an open eyes of the blind. The Bible does God's word to self first thing you need to ask is he step-by-step walking through the Bible and preaching and is he preaching the gospel so you can get up there. A rabbi can get up and preach the Old Testament is not to give life is he preaching gospel centered sermons. Is he preaching the gospel every week, no matter what text he's preaching us that's that's the first thing that Jesus is the star of everything right now voice to him.
He sees the headline story shut the so is he preaching the Bible is a preaching the gospel things and look for for do do they take a conversion soon seriously that people are called to repent and believe it's not easy believe is its repent and believe in Jesus that is not a savior. He's also Lord.
Is this a trick take that seriously, also essays the church practicing membership discipline that they know who they are just a crowd and unaccountable crowd do they know who they are. Date they discipled one another that they keep track of what they love one another they pursue one another is is it that kind that they practiced church discipline. Right I do that. That is to say today correct sin in one another's lives not not not not like sin police, but lovingly, carefully, gently, are they doing that and finally I would say, leaders do have godly elders who are above reproach. You know how to teach the word.
So these are number of the things I would point you to this really cool man alive it's I can't write fast enough so I missed a listen to this recording over to get out that you will like to share our here in this honor. Awesome you will wonderful radio show is it carrying this this segment we have a whole bunch of Facebook digital folks that we play this force were grateful for podcasting.
Now let's Become a big thing.
I guess were God path God testing but God testing more than podcasting items are missing. You were trying so were grateful for you to join us here at Johnson people are looking for Ellie church lot of folks are stuck in a church they just keep hoping maybe this week the pastoral bring of the Bible. Maybe this week he'll confront sin. Maybe this week the gospel will be touched on what you say to folks struggling like you know how long do I stay here church before my voice counter my grandma when you're my great grandma when you say to people in that state, stuck in that definition of insanity sucks if you're if you're in a church and staying there just for sentimental reasons know that's not good enough. If you're in the church because you're trying to really serve and build up the brothers and sisters. There are no Jan some way things are not perfect was that that's okay. That's what you're called to let me know church is perfect. Someone and I want to tell you to rush off too quickly how it should be there, not just to consume but also participate in feeding, I want to raise up a generation of consumers right just looking for the get self. So are you in your church looking for ways to build up brothers and sisters in Christ. Okay, but let's suppose you and your spouse and your children are they are. You been there for. Sometimes you just shriveling you're not flourishing.
The big problem. What you need to endure to the end is other brothers and sisters around you, helping you to follow after Jesus and you need godly elders were preaching God's word so if if over time you to see the trajectory of my spiritual life is not good enough looking alien to me. Had this is not a church read want to bring your non-Christian friend because you're not confident that hear the gospel and you're not confident that they would see people of integrity, walking in the gospel. That's not the church.
While one more thing making disciples how important that is. How should everyone listing our boys are and I'll be discipling and being disciple in their church board discipleship go quick. I can't survive as a Christian. Apart from that other disciples, other elders and other members are God's appointed meeting to help me endure to the end. It's it's that crucial. While Jonathan Lehman nine marks ministries.
What a blessing. It's all in this book. Nine.
Marginality church and I know you had a hand in written by Mark never thanks for visiting with us what an encouraging word from you and a go encourage pastor pray for him and challenge him to be the man of God to preach the word of God and to make disciples and remember who the start of every sermon is after every sermon asked the question who is Jesus and that sermon how do we get to him and it's a good sermon if it ends up with him that was a special thank you to a wonderful partner helping us advance the message of this program of the gospel in the thank you goes out to my pillow.com Mike Lindell, the inventor and CEO has now open his heart to say thank you as well. He wants to give you the opportunity to do what I've done I've slept on his pillow. I love my pillow. I sleep better. What was give her good night sleep right now for the first time you get deep discounts on all the my pillow products. I'm talking about my pillows.
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